his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and
Religious personnes and others of the Clergie detected What if I saie al these and many other suche thinges were graunted of whiche we are persuaded that some are true the more parte is false muche is so written as it maie be defended no lesse then impugned What great inconuenience what preiudice to our Faith can ensue of al this Must the Catholike and ancient Doctrine of the Churche for these pointes be founde vntrue Must this now needes be made a good Argument Some of their liues were sinneful Ergo their Doctrine was false Truely these be the matters with the enlarging whereof his Defence hath risen to so huge a quantitie About whiche I haue not thought it needeful to bestow muche labour partly bicause in most of those pointes my Confutation of the Apologie yet standeth vnrefelled partly also bicause it liked me not to emploie good houres in so friuolous and vnfruitful a trauaile but chiefly bicause what so euer be said by M. Iewel touching these thinges either on the one side or on the other it importeth no disprouse of the Catholique doctrine in any Article whiche specially I haue taken in hande to mainteine Howbeit the thinges he bringeth in to deface the Churche must needes with wise menne in this case beare smal credite being considered vpon whose authorities and reportes they be auouched The Catholikes can not be greatly moued with suche thinges as are written in preiudice of the Churche either by them whose Bookes be of suspected faith and therefore condemned by the Church as Auentinus and Beno de vita Hildebrandi or haue ben corrupted of late yeres by the Lutheranes of Germanie as Vrspergensis In Indice librorum prohibitorum Antonius de Rosellis Polydorus Vergilius de Inuentoribus rerum Paschasius and others or who haue benne muche inclined to innouations in Religion and fauoured the Procedinges of Luther and his disciples as Erasmus Cornelius Agrippa Carion Lorichius Cassander and suche others or who be knowen to be manifest Heretiques and professed enemies of the Churche as Gaspar Hedio the Author of Paralipomena added to Vrspergensis Anselmus Rid Vergerius Sleidan Illyricus Fabritius Montanus Iacobus Andreae and many suche others al whiche M. Iewel allegeth against the Churche the Popes and the Clergie boldely as if they were Doctours of sufficient authoritie and sound credite against whom specially in these matters no exception might be taken As there is no cause why we shoulde greatly esteeme any thing spoken by these either against the manners of the Clergie or against the Ceremonies and customes of the Churche or against any parte of the Catholique Doctrine bicause in iudgement the bare worde of the Accuser or of him that otherwise is an il willer beareth smal credite against any man So touching the doctrine of Faith we feare not what so euer M. Iewel allegeth against vs out of the Schoolemenne Canonistes of al sortes Summistes and Glosers out of the Cardinalles and those other learned and graue menne appointed by Paulus Tertius to geue information of thinges in the state of the Churche to be refourmed and out of the Bisshoppes speaking their mindes freely in the late Councel of Trent For we are wel assured how so euer M. Iewel telleth their tales for them they helde and mainteined the doctrine which we professe in euery condition What so euer therefore he bringeth out of them bearing any sound of wordes against the Catholike Faith as very litle it is that to that effecte he can bring though with heapes of their sayinges he hath filled his great Volume the same is either by heate of Disputation or by waie of Obiection against the Truthe after the Scholastical manner for the better opening of the Truthe or by vehemencie of zele or perhappes by humaine ouersight vttered otherwise then by them is determined in their Conclusions whereof the taking of aduantage is vndue and ouer captious or by some sleight of M. Iewel falsified and corrupted or to saie the least by vntrue cōstruction wrested to a sense by the Authour neuer intended How so euer it be they shew them selues either very blinde of iudgement or very contentious wranglers or very vaine Ianglers that allege the wordes of any Writer against the Catholique doctrine whose whole course of life shewed him to be Catholique Which is tolde vs by S. Augustine as a moste certaine rule whereby to vnderstand mennes wordes in matter of Religion And therefore thus he crieth out vpon the blindenesse of such men among whom M. Iewel maie take him selfe annumbred that wil not vnderstād mens wordes by their dedes Aug. contra Epist Parme. li. 3. cap. 4. Incredibilis est coecitas hominum omnino nescio quemadmodum credi posset esse in hominibus tāta peruersitas nisi experimento verborum suorū factorūque patesceret vsqueadeo se clausos habere cordis oculos vt cōmemorent sancta Scripturae testimonia nec intueantur in factis Prophetarū quemadmodum intelligenda sint verba Prophetarū The blindnesse of men is inoredible and certainely I wote not how I might make one beleeue that there were such frowardnesse in men onlesse by the proufe of their wordes and deedes it appeared openly that the eyes of their harte were so faste shut vp that they allege the testimonies of the holy Scripture and doo not behold in the doinges of the Prophetes how the wordes of the Prophetes are to be vnderstanded Wherefore seing the farre greater parte of M. Iewels Defence consisteth of their sayinges heaped together of whom some were either them selues or their workes being vntruly set forth after their death of suspect faith some found to fauour heretikes some professed heretikes some contrariwise knowen by publike profession of their life to be perfite Catholikes making litle accompt what they of the one side saie as being of no credite specially in matter of Faith and not doubting but these of the other side meant wel and godly how so euer their wordes by M. Iewel be abused corrupted and misconstrued in consideratiō thereof good Reader I iudged a short Treatie might suffice in this case shorte I meane in comparison of that Huge Volume fraught with so much voide impertinent and superfluous stuffe Otherwise it is longer I am wel assured then he shal euer be hable aptly truly and directly to confute I saie not but he maie do eftsones as he hath twise already donne that is to saie gather together a huge number of sayinges out of al sortes of Writers and printing this Treatie withal sende vs forth an other great booke conteining much stuffe to litle purpose and not once touching the very precise pointes wherein he is charged with foule errours and falshed But to come directly to the pointes by me thoroughly refelled and with good proufes to iustifie the same keeping him selfe in from idle ranging abroad in matters not denied or otherwise impertinent this is that I affirme he shal neuer be hable to perfourme though he write againe as muche as
them selues also for auoiding superstition maie surceasse and be put awaie where the thing signified is perfourmed and sufficiently beleeued And so is Baptisme like to be quite abolished with other Signes and Ceremonies For Caluine their new Apostle of Geneua teacheth that if we were mindeful yenough of Christes Death al the Sacramentes were superfluous Caluin in â— Cor. 11. I praie God in this point I be not a true Prophete Defence 150. M. Iewel laboureth al that he can in the Defence to discharge Caluin of this perilous Doctrine wherewith I burden him in my Confutation But when he hath said al he hath lost his labour bicause he coÌ„meth not to the point and dissembleth that Caluine euer said it And so he maie beginne that matter again He shal do wel to make Caluin in Antidoto to agree with Caluin in his coÌ„mentaries vpon S. Paules Epistles where he teacheth expressely that in case of sufficient remembrance of Christes Death al the Sacramentes be superfluous Whiche I gather not out of Caluines wordes by a fonde collection as M. Iewel beareth the Reader in hande but I shew it to be Caluines owne saying and for trial I directe the Reader vnto the place Concerning the Godhed of the holy Ghoste I moued no Quarel at al. The Godhed of the holy Ghoste Pag. 90. Confutat 41. b. The proceeding of the holy Ghoste Yet in the Defence of the Apologie he beareth menne in hande that I denie the holy Ghoste may be proued to be God by expresse Scripture For these be his wordes You saie M. Harding that the Godhed of the holy Ghost can not be proued by expresse wordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure This is as false as true it is that the holy Ghoste is God Reade my wordes who wil he shal finde me true and M Iewel false Mary as touching the Article of the holy Ghoste whereas the Authours of the Apologie saie it procedeth from both the Father and the Sonne whiche is most true Some thinges are to be belieued for which vve haue no expresse Scripture in consideration of this pointe of this pointe only I saie whiche is parte of the whole Article and not of the Godhed I saie in my Confutation that they haue no expresse Scripture for it nor any of the first foure Generall Councelles and that therefore we are bound of necessitie to beleeue somewhat whiche is not expressely mencioned in the Scriptures and that an other Councel where that Article was confirmed is to be receiued beside the foure first whiche only be allowed in England by Parlament Bicause he was lothe so manifest Vntruthe vttered against me should be espied he nipte awaie my wordes not suffering my whole tale to be tolde out in whiche I doo plainely signifie my denial to perteine only to the Article of the holy Ghostes proceeding and not to the Article of his Godhed For after these wordes of the Apologie Defence pag. â—0 we beleeue that the holy Ghoste who is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not create not begotten but proceeding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto menne and vnspeakeable c. In my Confutation I saie thus As we acknowledge this Article to be true CoÌ„futatioÌ„ fol. 41. b. and Catholique so we demaund of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most auctoritie Other Conucels to be allovved of necessitie besides the 4. First We are sure they haue not Therefore we doo them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truth necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other CouÌ„celles be to be receiued besides the foure first whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * This much betvvene the tvvo starres M. Ievv nipt avvaie from the rest as that wherein this pointe touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost hath bene defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Churche when vpon a newe doubte rising an olde Truth is by later Publications declared Likewise those Councelles in whiche the doctrine hath ben defined by the Churche concerning the Two Willes and Operations of Christe whiche who so euer beleeueth not or at least refuseth to beleeue is not to be takeÌ„ for a Christian man If these Councelles be denied al these things shal come in doubt againe and if these be receiued then why should not al the reste that be vniuersal Councelles be also receiued which the Church hath allowed * Thus I saie there Iudge now good Reader whether I denie in that place that the holy Ghostes Godhed maie be proued by expresse wordes of Scripture wherewith he chargeth me in the Defence and whether this be a seeking of Quarelles against him for that he mainteineth the Proceeding and the Godhed of the holy Ghoste as he chargeth me in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie Likewise it is an immoderate lye where he saith I seeke Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the Faith of the holy and Glorious Trinitie Pitie it were I should be suffred to tread on Gods earth if I quarelled with any man for that he mainteineth that holy Quarel I professe my selfe bounde to mainteine that Faith with al my witte and learning and to be ready therein to spende my bloude to the last droppe Neither can I seeme to pike Quarelles against them in that they mainteine the General and Catholique professioÌ„ of the Common Creede for so should I proue my selfe an ennemie to the Faith As thus to doo it were a hainous crime so to burden me therewith in a publique Write in a printed Booke set forth for euery man to reade in a solemne Epistle Dedicatorie to a Prince and to suche a Prince the slaunder is hainous wicked and impudent Howbeit As I allow and approue the Confession of their beleefe touching the Trinitie confessing it to conteine true and Catholique doctrine so I seeme better to like of the olde accustomed manner of vtterance of the beleefe And in deede emong Christian menne when this high point of our Faith concerning the blessed Trinitie is by a publique Confession to be taught it is not yenough to vtter some parte of our beleefe whiche is true but also it behoueth vs to vtter the whole truthe and to vse suche fourme of wordes as hathe benne vsed and allowed by the Churche from the beginning What I meane and how reasonably herein I haue spoken by these my wordes vnto the indifferent Reader it shal appeare Confut. 39. b. But what fault finde ye in this confession of our Faith saith this defender Sir the first parte of your Confession wherein you vtter your Beleefe touching the Trinitie conteineth true and Catholique
sure of it that he is not ashamed to allege it againe worde for worde in the pretensed Defence pag. 617. where he beginneth the sentence thus in Latine Iohannes Papa 22. decreuit c. and thus coteth the place Gerson in sermone Paschali It is a fowle thing M. Iewel and a wicked impudencie thus to belye the Doctours Certaine it is Gerson neuer said it nor in sermone Paschali as you reporte nor any where elles that this Pope Iohn made any suche Decree Neither was his errour as you vntruly burthen him that the Soules of the wicked should not be pounished before the daie of the laste Iudgement That ye write touching this Pope either proceedeth of malice or of ignorance If ye be malicious God amende you if ye be ignorant thus ye maie vnderstand the truth What was the propre errour of Pope Iohn 22. touching the Soules departed The errour of Pope Iohn the. 22. was not that the Soules of the wicked be not pounished before the daie of the laste Iudgement but that the soules of the good see not the face of God before the laste daie His Position or opinion was conceiued with these termes as the Scholastical Doctours then vsed to speake or the like as we finde in Adrianus that learned Pope Adrianus in 4. SententiaruÌ„ quaest de SacrameÌ„to Confirmationis and in the Extrauagante of Pope Benedictus vndecimus who succeded him nexte Animae purgatae ante finale Iudicium non habent stolam quae est clara facialis Visio Dei That is to saie The purified or cleansed Soules haue not their Stole whiche is the cleare vision of God and sighte face to face before the final Iudgement This mater was muche disputed of among the learned Diuines of that time The Question was thus propounded as it appeareth by Benedictus Extrauagante â—enedictus 11. in Extrauagante An anima iustorum hominum in quibus nihil erat purgabile cùm de hoc seculo decesserunt vel si quid erat iam purgatum fuerat ex toto post mortem suam videant Diuinam essentiam ante corporum suorum resumptionem iudicium generale As muche to saie in English whether the Soules of iuste menne in whiche there was nothing to be purged when they departed out of this worlde or if there were any thing the same had ben now wholly purged after their death see the Diuine essence before the receiuing againe of their bodies and before the general Iudgement Of this Question some Doctours then helde the affirmatiue some the negatiue Amongst them that helde the Negatiue this Pope Iohn 22. was one before he was Pope and perhaps also afterward But he helde it only as his priuate opinion As touching Decree or definition in that behalfe either against or with the truth doubtelesse it can not be proued by any storie of estimation that he made any Who of al menne is more to be beleeued herein then Benedictus the eleuenth that was Cardinal in his time and succeded him This Benedictus saith that Pope Iohn prepared him selfe to make a Decision and a perfite determination of that question And to thintent the truth might be exactly tried out he gaue coÌ„maundement in his publique Consistorie whereat the said Benedictus was then present as he saith him selfe vnto the Cardinals Prelates and Doctors of diuinitie who were there in great number to prouide for the due examination of that questioÌ„ that when they should be required euery man should saie deliberately what he thought of it Yet saith Benedictus being preuented by death as it pleased our Lorde he could not performe that he inteÌ„ded The same was perfourmed by Benedictus streight after Pope Iohns death Now this was an errour in Pope Iohn I denie not Yet for the same is not he to be accompted an heretique as neither S. Irenaeus Theophylactus and S. Bernarde are who seme to haue bene of the same opinion as it is by some learned menne gathered and iudged of certaine sayinges founde in their workes Certainely it was no heresie for so muche as the matter was not at that time expressely defined by the Churche but afterward by Benedictus the eleuenth and at length by the Councel of Florence vnder Eugenius the fourth This is the vntrue doctrine of Pope Iohn 22. of which Gerson speaketh farre otherwise then M. Iewel reporteth him in a Sermon that he made before the Frenche king then being in festo Paschali In that Sermon hauing vttered a fewe sentences touching Peace taking occasion of his Theme whiche was that Christ said to his disciples Pax vobis after his praiers made and the Theme repeated againe euen after the maÌ„ner that Preachers in England vsed in the catholik times thus he beginneth Gerson Serm. 1. in Festo Paâ—schali Saluator noster verus miles c. Iesus Christe our Sauiour and true knighte streight after his blessed Passion in the first instant of his death whiche was on the frydaie at the nynth hower went downe vnto Hel to geue the true peace the peace of glorie and blisse vnto his frendes the Patriarkes Prophetes and the other iuste that were in Limbo Patrum that is to saie in the resting place of the Fathers And it is verely to be beleeued that he gaue this glorious peace to al them that were in Purgatorie and that he deliuered them as a king doth at his first ioyous comming vnto a place And of purpose this did he vnto the Theefe who of likelyhoode had not yet fulfilled his penaunce for al his sinnes who was in that very houre made blessed and saw God face to face as the Saintes doo in Paradise This daie saith Christe shalt thou be with me in Paradise Luke 23. Immediatly vpon this folow the wordes by whiche it appeareth that by verdite of Gerson Pope Iohns errour was as is afore said For there he saith Propter quod apparet falsitas doctrinae Papae Iohannis 22. quae damnata fuit cum sono buccinarum vel tubarum coram rege Philippo auunculo tuo per Theologos Parisienses c. For the which thing the falshed of the doctrine of Pope Iohn the. 22. appeareth whiche was condemned at the sounde of Trumpets before king Philip thy vncle by the Diuines of Paris Remember good Reader this errour of Iohn 22. was not condemned by the Diuines of Paris when he was Pope but before when he was a priuate Doctor and liued in the realme of Fraunce Whom notwithstanding Gerson calleth Pope for that he was Pope afterward and died Pope And thus wrote Gerson of him long after his death Laie al this and that I said before in my Confutation together M. Iewel and this matter of Pope Iohn the. 22. is fully answered and you remaine stil charged with Vntruthe and al the scorneful talke that you vtter of Purgatorie in your pretensed defence page 617. is founde vaine light and vnlearned and vtterly beside the purpose For the question wherein Pope
lib. coÌ„t 9. sectas In the booke in tituled Recta fides de Caena Domin nor by writinges nor by worde nor by deede as the Lord hath commaunded whether he be Zuenckfeldius or Zuinglius or what soeuer he be called And in an other place he condemneth by name Zuinglius Carolostadius and Oecolampadius with al their diuers and dissonant sacramentarie heresies Nicolaus Amsdorffius a famous Superindent in Germanie saith thus plainely Thirdely we condemne the Sacramentaries Zuinglius and his felowes The publike write of the princes of Mansfeld and of the yonger princes of Saxonie doth recken vp in the rolle of condemned Heretiques the Sacramentaries by name Ioachimus Westphalus saith No false doctrine is so farre spred none with such labour and hypocrisie is defended â—oâ—e hath more beguiled the worlde then this false doctrine of the blessed Sacrament meaning Caluines owne doctrine learned first of Berengarius of whom you haue no cause you saie to be ashamed If Heretiques of your own schoole can not make you ashamed of Berengarius and his doctrine what say you to the great General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome vnder Innocentius the third CouÌ„cel of Laterane thereof called Concilium Lateranense That Councel was an vniuersal assemblie out of al partes of Christendom Platina in InnoceÌ„tio tertio The great Assemblie of Laterane Councel as wel out of the Greeke Church as out of the Latine The Patriarkes of Constantinople and Hierusalem were there present Archebishoppes were there threescore and ten Bishoppes foure hundred and twelue Abbates and Priores more then eight hundred There were at that Councel the Ambassadours of both Emperours both of the West Churche and of the East also of the kinges of Hierusalem of Fraunce of Spaine of England and of Cyprus In this Councel so general and vniuersal the Heresie of Berengarius was condemned Concil Lateran Cap. 1. and the doctrine of Transubstantiation by occasion of his heresie exactly and fully discussed was by general consent of al plainely and clearely confirmed If the Sentence Consent and Accorde of the whole vniuersal Church can moue you M. Iewel then haue you good cause to be ashamed of Berengarius whose heresie was in so ful ample and General a Councel condemned as none in this worlde was euer greater If al this moue you not yet let Berengarius him selfe De Consecrat Dist 2. Ego BereÌ„garius whom you esteme so muche moue you to be ashamed of his doctrine of the whiche he him selfe was so muche ashamed at length and not onely in iudgement openlâ— recanted but also 〈◊〉 the houre of his Death ful bitterlâ— and hartily repented him selfe thereof as by sides otherâ— Guilelmus Malmesburiensis recordeth saying thus Guilelmus Malmesburiensis de gastis Anglorum lib. 3. Ipse Berengarius die Epiphaniorum moriens gâ—â—iâ—â—â— producto recordatus quot miseros quondam adolescenâ— primo errâ—ris â—alâ—tâ— secta infecerit bodie inquit in die Apparitionis suae apparabit mihi Dominus meus Iesus Christus vel propter poenitentiam vt spero ad gloriam vel propter alios vt timeâ— ad poenam Nos sanè credimus post benedictionem Ecclesiasticam illa Mysteria esse verum corpus sanguinem saluatoris adducti veteris Ecclesiae authoritate maltis noâ—iter ostensis miraculis Berengâ—rius himselfe as he laie dying vpon the Epiphanie daie whiche we cal Twelfth daie and with heauy be wailing called vnto remembrance how many miserable personnes he had infected with his heresie in youth at the firste heatâ— of the Sacramentarie Errour spake these wordes He alluded to the vvord Epiphanie vvhiche signifieth appearing or reuealiÌ„g This daie my Lorde Iesus Christe being the daie of his appearance shal appeare vnto me either to glorie as I truste bicause it repenteth me of my heresie or to pounishment as I feare me for the sake of others whom I haue seduced What so euer it shal please God to doe with me Truely I beleeue that after Consecration vsed in the Churche those Mysteries are the true Bodie and Bloude of our Sauiour being persuaded both by the authoritie of the auncient Churche and by many Miracles shewed of late yeres Thus ye maie see how so euer ye be not ashamed of Berengarius that yet Berengarius is ashamed of you Iewel Pag. 48. But as for your doctrine bicause it is only of your selues therefore it falleth daily and is novv forsaken the vvorlde through Harding Our doctrine is the doctrine of the Fathers not of our selues neither is the same forsaken The Catholique doctrine The .16 Chapt. The Fathers of the first 600. yeres reiected In institut Cap. 18. de coena Domi. Iacobus Acontius StratageÌ„ Sathan lib. 6. whiche you cal oures hath ben by your owne Confession welneare a thowsand yeres olde I cal your Confession your solemne prescription of the first .600 yeres For prescribing the one ye renounce the other It can not therefore seeme to be of vs that liue now whiche by your owne Confession hath ben so auncient Howbeit it is euident the first 600. yeres stande as fully for vs as doo the later Therefore Iohn Caluine accuseth the first 600. yeres of Iudaisme and of Iewish superstition namely in the matter of the blessed Sacrifice Therefore Iacobus Acontius one of your owne side in his booke dedicated to the Quenes Maiestie plainely misliketh and reproueth such as offer to be tried by the auncient Fathers calling it perniciosissimam omninoque fugiendam consuetudinem a most pernicious custome and altogether to be auoided Therefore M. Nowel as this Acontius calleth it a * Valde amplum spatium Novvel in the preface of his first booke large scope to trie matters by the Fathers And he that hath vttered so muche blasphemie against the Crosse of Christe for his parte also protesteth plainely In the booke against the Cross that he wil not be tried by the Fathers And why al this M. Iewel Mary thâ—y know â—ight wel that by the Fathers you are condemned and that our doctrine by them is clearely established Wâ— therefore haue learned of our Auncestours al that we teache We haue inuented nothing of our selues Your beginning is knowen and is yet in mannes memorie When Papistrie as you cal it beganne you can neuer 〈◊〉 for your life The Gospelleâ— I shal neuer be haÌ„ble to shevv vvhen Papistrie beganne otherwise then with the beginning of Christes gospel Shewe once M. Iewel when in what age in what place Countrie Citie or Churche of whom vnder what Pope Emperour or Prince Papistrie beganne and then saie hardely it is our Doctrine and only of our selues Except you shewe this your lie wil seme palpable If ye haue ought to shew for the worship of your cause bring it forth be it but one sentence or one halfe sentence The Catholique doctrine vntruly reported by M. Ievvel to be forsaken al the vvorld through In like manner a sensible and a palpable lie it
is that you adde that our doctrine is forsaken the worlde through No M. Iewel not so Gods holy name be blessed it is not yet forsaken al England through We knowe it right wel we praise God for it and reioise therein You know it also and it greeueth you at the harteful deepely and specially that diuers haue returned from your lying Religion to the truthe of the Catholique Faithe euen in these last yeres when ye semed to haue most prospered in the sight of the worlde Suche is the nature of truth the more it is pressed downe the more it riseth vp A lie impudently auouched by M. Ievvel and sheweth it selfe Had our doctrine ben forsaken the world through your Gues I trowe in these lowe Countries and your Huguenotes in Fraunce had prospered better But what wil not you sticke to auouch which so boldely yea so impudently doo auouche such a knowen Vntruthe Vntruthe Nay so sensible and so palpable a Lie The Catholique doctrine not only contineweth in Italie FrauÌ„ce Spaine Portugal and Germanie in whole Countries and Territories but euen where your brethâ—â—n are thickest there lacke not Catholiques right many and perfitte among them Yea the Catholique doctrine is preached and published among heathens and Infidelles to the great glorie of God and to the great despite of the deuill and his ministers as it wel appeareth by your selfe M. Iewel and by your wordes whiche before I haue touched If our doctrine be forsaken the worlde through where are we M. Iewel against whom you write so busily Are we out of the worlde Where was the late general Councel with so many Bishoppes learned Doctours and Princes Ambassadours there present al condemning your hainous heresies Were they al out of the world or haue they al now changed their minde and yelded vnto you Maximilian the noble Emperour King Philip of Spaine with al his so sundry and so large Dominions besides the kingdome of Naples and Sicilia the Dukedomes of Millan Burgundie Brabant Holland Zeland Friseland Gelderland the Counties of Tyrol Flaunders Henault and Artois Charles king of Fraunce the kinges of Portugal and of Polonia The states and Princes of Italie with also many Dukedomes Free Citties States of Christendome besides al yet remaining Catholique are they al out of the worlde I can not tel whether I may cal this lye more impudent or more foolish Iewel Pag. 50. Neither there any sufficient cause to the contrarie but that Berâ—â—garius Iohn VViclef Iohn Hus D. Luther Zuinglius Oâ—colampadius and others either for learning or for truth or for iâ—â—â—â—ment in the Scriptures or for Antiquitie may vvel and safely bâ— coâ—pared vvith Lanfrancus Guimundus Abbas Cluniacensis Thoâ—â—â— VValdensis Iohn Fisher and others Harding What difference there is betwen these holy Fathers and those pestilent Heretiques The. 17. Chapt. No no Sir the oddes is exceding great Berengarius Wiclef Hus Luther Zuinglius and Oecolampadius non comunicabant oiÌ„bus gentibus illis Ecclesiis Apostolico labore fundatis Aug. cont Lit. Petil. lib. 2. cap. 16. did not coÌ„municate with al nations and those Churches which were founded by the Apostles labour Nay by the ful and intier coÌ„sent of al nations Christened assembled in general Councelles they were al condemned Berengarius in the great general Councel of Lateran Anno. 1205. Wiclef and Hus in the general Councel of Constance Anno. 1413. Luther and the rest among whom you may take your selfe for one in the late General Councel of Trent Contrariewise the other Fathers communicated with the whole corps of Christendome then liuing They were Bisshoppes and Doctours of that age lineally succeding in the Catholique doctrine euen from the Apostles and the Apostolike menne Againe these said Fathers are accompted and placed in honorable roumes as Lumina Ecclesiae lightes of the Churche in al Chronographies yea made and written by the Protestantes them selues namely by Henricus Pantaleon of Basil and others of your secte Berengarius on the other side with al the rest are noted in the Chronographies drawen out by ProtestaÌ„tes them selues in the rewe and line of condemned heretiques Thirdly what comparison is there betwen lewde lecherous Luther and that holy Bisshop B. Fisher and blessed Martyr of God Doctour Fisher late Bisshop of Rochester The very writinges of bothe extant doo declare the diuersitie of their spirites Luther taketh his pleasure in Ribaudrie belketh out filthinesse breatheth rancour raileth and reuelleth against the honorable states of the worlde beyonde al measure euen against thâ—t Prince him selfe that afterwarde prepared the waie for your heresies to procede lustily King Heâ—â—ie the eight The writinges of D. Fisher are wel knowen to be modest piththy and learned and at this present highly esteemed in al Christendome So are the writinges of Lanfrancus Guimundus and Cluniacensis Of the others we haue but names only leaft except Luther with the two others whose writinges yet no doubte if euer Goddes truth preuaile wil also at length come to nought and haue the like fortune as the bookes of al other heretikes haue had Iewel Pag. 50. The Councelles ye meane are very nevve and therefore beare the lesse Authoritie for that they be so many vvaies contrarie to the olde Certainely there is none of your errours so grosse and palpable but by some of your late Councelles it hath benne confirmed Harding The causes examined for which M. Iewel alloweth not the Councelles of these last 500. yeres The. 18. Chapt. Guli MalmesburieÌ„ lib. 3. de gestis Anglorum Guimundus Al. gerus lib. 1 de Sacramentis Platina in Innocentio 3. Tyrius lib. 21. cap. 26 Guido Carmelita de haeresibus Platina Palmerius Nauclerus Three causes then there are if I vnderstand you wel why you and your felowes so saucily doo condemne the General Councelles holden in Christendome within these last fiue hundred yeres as the Councelles holden at Toures in Fraunce at S. Iohn Lateran in Rome that vnder Nicolaus 2. to the number of 114. Bishoppes this vnder Innocentius 3. whereunto Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes and Abbates out of al partes of Christendome resorted to the number of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers in al which the doctrine of Berengarius was condemned Also the other General Councel holden at S. Iohn Lateran at an other time to the number of 300. Bishoppes both of the East and the West Churche where the Waldenses your brethren were condemned the Councel of Constance where the doctrine of Wiclef and Hus was condemned to the number of 270. Bishoppes last of al the General Councel of Trent to the number of 198. Bishoppes where sundry of your present heresies were after mature discussion with ful consent accursed and condemned Al these and diuers other Councelles for three causes you contemne and despise First for that they are very newe Secondly for that they are contrary to the olde Thirdly bicause al our errours haue benne confirmed in them Your first cause implieth a
great folie I wil not saie also a blasphemie A great folie it is for you and your felowes to contemne the General Councelles of late yeres for that they be newe as you say your selues and your doctrine being yet so newe and of so litle age Verely no age or time of Christes Churche to any Christen man ought to seeme newe in respecte of doctrine and faith If he beleeue the holy Scriptures describing the Church vnto vs he can not without folie in that respecte cal it newe The time may be newe or late bicause it commeth and passeth The Faithe and Doctrine remaineth one and the same not changed with the course of times Nowe as the Worde of God and our Faithe dureth for euer so Christes Churche being one and the same as it hath in al ages continewed so shal it continewe to the worldes ende This before hath benne prooued and by your selfe confessed The Councelles therefore I meane the doctrine of Faith opened discussed and agreed vppon in Councelles by the Bisshoppes whom the holy Ghost hath ordeined to rule the Churche Act. 20. Ephes 4. and by the Pastours and Doctours whome God placeth to the edefying of the Churche that we be not carried awaie by euerie winde of doctrine is not newe The discussion and plaine opening of it may be newe The doctrine is olde as truth it selfe is olde Ansvver to the obiection of the later CouÌ„celles being contrarie to the olde Your second cause why these later Councelles doo beare with you the lesse Authoritie is for that as you say they be so many waies contrarie to the olde It had benne good reason that if these later Councelles be so many waies contrarie to the olde you had shewed presently at the lest one of those so many waies Shal it be sufficient for you to geue out such a Reproche iâ— a matter of so greate Importance without any prousâ— at al It had benne plaine dealing at the lest to haue named some one Councel and to haue touched some one pointe wherein that Councel should be founde contrarie to the olde This therefore I lette passe for a Notorious and a Reprocheful Vntruthe boldely auouched but no waie proued Onely I aduertise the Reader that it is not possible any general Councel shoulde be contrarie to an other in matter of faith One Churche one faith and necessarie doctrine As the Churche in Faith is but one so the Faith discussed determined and agreed vpon in Councelles truely representing the whole body of the Churche is but one As the Churche can not be contrarie to it selfe in Faith so general Councelles assembled in the holy Ghoste can not be contrarie to them selues Marke wel good Sir what I saie One general Councel can not in a matter of faith be contrary to an other CouÌ„cel Math. 18. In doctrine and matter of Faith no lawful General Councel truely and rightly that is in vnitie and Charitie assembled hath or can at any time determine contrarie to an other likequalified For so the one should erre in Faith whereby Christes promise should seeme to faile who said wheresoeuer two or three are assembled together in my name there am I in the middest of them In my name faith S. Cyprian that is in vnitie and in the body That later Councelles haue determined some matters not before in other Councelles determined it is euident and not denied Heresies haue caused many matters to be more opened then they were before as S. Augustine noteth But new articles of the faith be not decreed in CouÌ„celles That also in matter of manners and of external order or gouernement some Councelles haue done coÌ„tratrarie to other according to the state of times and diuersitie of circumstances it is not denied Yea that it be so done sometime the state and present case of the Church of necessitie requireth it Aug. epist 5. ad Marcellinum For which S. Augustin saith notably Non itaque verum est quod dicitur semel rectè factum nullatenus esse mutanduÌ„ Mutata quippe teÌ„poris causa quod rectè antè factuÌ„ suerat ita mutari vera ratio pleruÌ„que flagitat vt cuÌ„ ipsi dicant rectè noÌ„ fieri si mutetur contrà veritas clamet rectè non fieri nisi mutetur quia vtruÌ„que tunc erit rectuÌ„ si erit pro teÌ„poruÌ„ varietate diuersum It is not therefore true which meÌ„ say looke what thing is once wel done it ought in no case to be changed For the state of the time being altered that thing which was wel done before good reason oftentimes requireth so to be changed that whereas they say it is not wel done if it be changed the truth on the other side crieth out It is not weldone if it be not changed bicause both shal then be right and wel if it shal be diuers according to the varietie of the time But that in matter of faith or doctrine Ansvver to that M Iâ—vvel obiecteth against the later CouÌ„cels for that by the same al our doctrines vvhiche they impugne 〈◊〉 conâ—irmed as is a fore said any General Councel lawfully assembled was euer contrarie to the other it is a mere vntruthe and a false sclaunder that can neuer be proued Where you say for a third cause or reason why these later CouÌ„cels are of lesse autoritie for that there is none of our errours so grosse and palpable but by some of them it hath ben coÌ„firmed to that we answer Quod das accipâ—mê° we admit gladly that in these late CouÌ„cels al such matters as we defend which it pleaseth yau to terme grosse and palpable errours haue ben confirmed We are then discharged and the whole Church of late yeres is charged But Sir being confirmed by General Councelles why cal you them Errours grosse and Palpable Saie you not also herein that the whole Churche erred at that time grossely and palpably Let vs take one Councel and one Age for example to auoide confusion of general discoursing and to bring this matter to some cleare issue The Lateran Councel vnder Innocentius 3. In the yere of our Lorde 1215. aboue three hundred yeres past in the General Councel holden at S. Iohn Laterane in Rome with ful consent of a thousand two hundred fourescore and fiue Fathers assembled there out of al partes of Christendome as wel out of the East Church as out of the West the Ambassadours and Oratours as wel of both Emperours being present as also of diuers other Kinges Princes and States it was by mature discussion found TransubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ and agreed vpon and decreed so to be beleeued that in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter due consecration being made the substance of breade is changed into the substance of the body of Christ and the substance of wine into the substaÌ„ce of his bloode the worde Transubstantiation whereby much that belongeth to that mysterie is by a coÌ„modious breuitie expressed was allowed the opinion of Berengarius was condeÌ„ned
This declaration and determination you take to be a grosse and a palpable errour For you are not ashamed you saie of Berengarius doctrine But Sir if this were a grosse and a palpable Errour how say you then did al those Patriarkes Archebisshoppes Bishoppes Abbates Doctours and learned Priestes grossely and palpably erre Did the Emperours both of the Grecians and of the Latines the Kinges of Fraunce Spaine England Hierusalem Cyprus whose Ambassadours and Oratours were there representing the personnes of their Princes and people to them subiecte did al these also erre with al their people and subiectes grossely and palpably This question then I demaund of you M. Iewel At these daies and in that age where was the Churche of Christe By you al erred grossely and palpably Berengarius him selfe whose doctrine was there condemned had both recanted his Heresie that you holde now and was longe before that time dead and buried There was not a man liuing at that daie who was knowen in the vnitie of the Churche to maineteine that doctrine whiche that Councel condemned and whiche you now doo mainteine Only Almaricus Almaricus is noted of the Chronographers to haue liued about the time of that Councel and to haue holden the heresie of Berengarius Pantaleō Bernard Lutzenburg Gaguinus Lib. 6. Pag. 48. But M. Iewel hath plainely renounced this Almaricus He said before of Abailard and Almarike and certaine other we haue no skil They are none of ours Then as I said there was not so muche as one man knowen at that time in the vnitie of the Churche and allowed by your iudgement to haue holden the opinion by that General Councel condemned This being so either that Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Churche or elles at that time Christe had no Churche at al. But Christes Churche endureth for euer Pag. 32. you haue your felfe before confessed it therefore we must beleue that the said Councel helde the vnitie of Christes Church and the doctrine by the Fathers of the same approued is the true and Catholique doctrine of the Churche and your Sacramentarie opinion to the contrarye at this daie is a condemned heresie In like sorte by Induction we might discourse of the other General Councelles But this one for example maie suffice to proue that the same pointes of doctrine which you cal grosse and palpable Errours M. Ievvel acknovvlegeth al the partes of doctrine vvher in he varieth from vs to be approued by the Churche in General Councelles fully discussed and confirmed in Councelles are no Errours at al but Catholike verities and truthes tried and confirmed by the highest and most infallible Authoritie that is in earth And we haue al good cause to reioise M. Iewel that by the force of truthe ye are driuen so freely and so plainely to graunt vnto vs the confirmation and Approbation of Councelles for al such pointes of doctrine as we defende against you termed by you modestly I trowe and without heate or choler Grosse and palpable Errours He must needes be a great fauourer of your secte that vpon the warrant of your mouth only wil holde the general determinations of Councelles for grosse and palpable Errours And very grosse must he be that seeth not the proude Luciferly sprite breathing forth of you in such a malapert and sawcy controllement of them whom God ordeined in their time to gouerne his Church No no M. Iewel your mouth is no iuste measure your penne is no right square your verdite is very insufficient for a dew resolutiō thereof to be taken in matters of such importance Yet haue you forsooth an example for your so doing and that of no lesse man then S. Augustine him selfe For thus you inferre to iustifie your former asseuerations Iewel Ibidem August Contra Maximin lib. 3. c. 14. Therefore vve maie iustly saie to you as S. Augustine sometime said to Maximinus the Arian heretike Neither maie I laie to thee the Councel of Nice nor maiest thou laie to me the Councel of Ariminum either of vs thinking thereby to finde preiudice against the other But let vs laie matter to matter cause to cause and reason to reason by the Authoritie of the Scriptures Harding How litle this place of S. Augustine serueth M. Iewels purpose and how falsly by him it is alleged How your therefore foloweth M. Iewel I see not The .19 Chapt. excepte you wil reason thus The later Councelles haue confirmed grosse and palpable errours Therefore you wil not that we should laye them against you no more then S. Augustine would laye the Nicene Coūcel against Maximinus the Arian See you not howe vntowardly this your therefore foloweth For admit that we graunted you that the late Councelles were erroneous which we wil not ne may not in any wise graunt you yet you wil not I trowe saie that the Nicene Councel also was erroneous If the Nicene Coūcel were not erroneous but a most Autentike and Catholique Councel what deduction can you make from the one to the other If S. Augustine had refused the Nicene Councel as you refuse the late Councelles that is if he had condemned the Nicene Councel of grosse and palpable errours as you doo condemne the later Councelles then had the example of S. Augustine serued your turne this being presupposed that these later Councelles were suche as you sclaunder them to be Now S. Augustine doth not so put of the Nicene Councel either as an erroneous Councel or as an Authoritie insufficient whereby to controlle the Heretike but partely bicause the Heretike quarelled about the name of an other Councel at Ariminum which was no lawful Councel in deede but a schismatical and heretical conuenticle and yet were there at it 800. Bishoppes but for wante of Damasus the Popes confirmation Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 23. Theodor. lib. 2. cap. 21. as Sozomenus and Theodoritus doo write it was accompted for none partely also bicause he sawe him selfe sufficiently instructed otherwise with holy scriptures to confute the Arian For these two causes to cut of occasion of longer brabling and to drawe the sooner to an issue for it was in an open disputation before a multitude not in priuate writinges carried to and fro S Augustine was content to laie aside the aduantage that he had of the Nicene Councel vpon condition the Arian would brable no more of the Councel of Ariminum This did S. Augustine of Christian policie and by occasion then ministred and not as geuing example to others to shake of al Authoritie of Councelles as you doo M. Iewel of a great many Againe you require vs to presse you no more with the late general Councelles of Laterane of Constāce of Florence of Trent and such other as the Arian required not to be pressed with the Nicene but you haue not so much as the name of one Councel of your parte for the whiche we might by waie of composition yelde our Councelles that you also might yelde
receiued of the Apostles Howe muche more stronger is that we saie now we folowe that which the Custome of the Church hath euermore holden whiche al this reasoning to and fro hath not ben able to plucke out of mens hartes and last of al which a ful General Councel hath confirmed So highly esteemed S. Augustine those things August li. 2. de Baptisme cap. 9. which M. Iewel of al other maketh lest accompt of And againe he saieth Concilia posteriora prioribus apud posterâ—s praepâ—nuntur Later CouÌ„cels preferred before the former for what cause The posteritie preferreth the Later Councelles before the Former Not as though the later should be contrarie to the former but bicause in the later CouÌ„cels the Church is alwaies better instructed through the contradictions of heretikes by occasion whereof matters are more exactely searched discussed and more clearely opened Like as the flint stoanes being knokte harde together fier flieth out and corne the more ye fifte it the purer it is tried so truthe by our aduersaries Contradictions is beaten out and doubteful pointes by long discussion and search are made plaine and cleare Therefore againe he saith Ibidem .li. 2. cap. 3. Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepe priora posterioribus emendantur cúm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum erat cognoscitur quod latebat The very former general Councells are oftentimes corrected by the later Councells when as by some trial of maâ—â—er that thing is opened whiche before was close shut vp and that is knowen whiche before laie hid Yeâ— and this is the chiefe and best fruite The benefit and fruite of heresies August in Psal 54. super versum Diuisi sunt prae ira c. that heresies bring vnto the Churche as the same S. Augustine otherwhere declareth where he saith The matter of the blessed Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil the Arianâ— barked against it The Sacrament of Penaunce was neuer throughly handled vntil the Nouatians beganne to withstande it Neither the cause of Baptisme was wel discussed vntil the rebaptizing Donatistes arose and troubled the Churche Thus M. Iewel if you geue eare vnto S. Augustine whose example you seeme to claime by you shal learne of him not to refuse and renounce the authoritie of General Councels but to obey them and to yeeld dew reuerence vnto them yea though they be later and as you cal them new Truth draue M. Iewel to iustifie al our Doctrine wherein he dissenteth from vs. The 21. Chap. This oddes therefore remaineth betwen you and vs that our doctrine yea euery pointe thereof in cotrouersie now is by your owne confession approued by the later General Councelles and so we defende no doctrine of our owne nor mainteine any prophane Nouelties of our owne deuise but we folowe Saluberrimam authoritatem the most holesome and sounde authoritie as S. Augustine termeth it of General Councels that is to saie we folowe the voice of the whole bodie of Christes Churche most truely represented in Councelles the voice of Christes spouse yea the voice of Christe him selfe speaking to vs by his Churche and so speaking that he willeth him whiche heareth not the Churche to be accompted for a Heathen Matt. 18. and a Publicane Contrariewise your Doctrine M. Iewel is not only not authorized in General Councelles but also is clearely condemned by the same as for example that one maie serue in steede of many the General Councel of Laterane condemneth your Sacramentarie heresie Yet we thanke not you but the truthe that you haue this muche confessed for vs. And as S. Augustine said of the Donatistes so we saie most truely of you Vt illa omnia vel loquendo vel legendo pro causa nostra promerent atque propalarent Aug. contra Donatist post collat ca. 34. veritas eos torsit non charitas inuitauit That the Donatistes shoulde vtter and bring forthe either by talke or by allegation out of a booke al those thinges for behoofe of our matter the truth forced them it was not any charitie that inuited them The truthe I saie M. Iewel not any loue you beare to our cause forced you to confesse that there is none of our errours so you terme sundry weightie pointes of the Catholike Faith that by some of the late Councelles hath not benne confirmed We take that you geue vs right gladly in asmuch as it declareth you to be conuinced by witnesse of your owne mouthe For if the pointes of Faith and Religion wherein ye dissent from vs be approued and confirmed by authoritie of the Churche in General Councelles who seeth not what a good staffe we haue to leane vnto And who is that Christian man whiche wil not humbly beleue the same The Thirde Booke conteineth a Detection of certaine Lies Cauilles Sclaunders c. vttered by M. Iewel in the second parte of his pretensed Defence Iewel Pag. 88. VVhere ye fantasie that the Bodie of Christe in the Sacramente hath in it selfe neither Fourme nor Proportion nor Limitation of place nor Distinction of partes S. Augustine telleth you Spatia locorum tolle c. Take awaie from Bodies Limitation of place and the Bodies wil be no where Augu. ad DardanuÌ„ epist 57. And bicause they be nowhere they wil be nothing Take awaie from Bodies the qualities of Bodies there wil be no place for them to be in and therefore the same Bodies muste needes be no Bodies at al. Hereof vve maie conclude that the Bodie of Christe vvhich you haue imagined to be contiened grosly and carnally in the Sacrament for as much as by your ovvne confession it hath neither Qualitie nor Quantitie nor Fourme nor place nor proportiâ—â— of Bodie therefore by S. Augustines doctrine it is no Bodie Harding Answer to the Obiection made out of S. Augustine to Dardanus against the real presence of Christes Bodie in the Blessed Sacrament The. 1. Chapt. THE great confidence you haue in S. Augustines two sayinges in his 57. Epistle to Dardanus may much better serue your turne to skirmish with Brentius a Master of youres Brentius the autor of the heresie of the Vbi quetaries and a graund Captaine emong the Lutherans who spareth not by publique write to teache the world that Christes Humanitie is euerie where as his Diuinitie is then against the Catholique doctrine of Christes Bodily presence in the Blessed Sacrament wherein no suche errour is allowed that Christes humanitie should be euery where with his Godhead but it is auouched that Christe by his omnipotent power doth make his Bodie present in as many places as the Blessed Sacrament is duely Natural qualities suspeÌ„ded from Bodies by Goddes special povver Exod. 3. Daniel 3. Exod. 14. and rightly consecrated You are not ignorant M. Iewel but that you know that God by his special power hath suspended from diuers sortes of Bodies sundrie natural Qualities as he did suspende the action of burning from the Fire as wel in the
the Scriptures or of the auncient Fathers M. Iewel meant to shewe that by Gods worde we might forsake our Predecessours examples But S. Cyprian rather sheweth that if our predecessours be taken as they ought to be taken that is to say for those that keepe the tradition and doctrine of the Apostles that then their Tradition is Gods worde Goddes VVord not written For he putteth it to be Gods owne worde that Christe offered his Chalice mingled of water and wine Yet of water there is no mention in the storie of the Supper In what worde then is it written that Christe had water in his Chalice Verely in the worde of Apostolike Tradition TraditioÌ„ in the vnwritten word in the worde of General Succession For in al Churches he sawe water mingled with wine and being assured that the Apostles who saw Christe to do it taught it so doubted not to say that our Lorde taught vs by his example and worde to mingle water with wine and so to offer the Chalice Verely you were farre ouerseene M. Iewel when you alleged this example as being suche whereby your selfe and al them of your side are vtterly condemned And what should ye do Except ye would repeÌ„t which God graunt if it be his wil ye must needes adde lye vnto lye without ende or measure or geue ouer the enterprise wherof you made your boasting ChaleÌ„ge Iewel CoÌ„pare the vse of our Churches M. Harding vvith the Primitiue Church of God and ye shal easily see the right of our Succession Harding Diuersitie betvven the primitiue Churche and the Churches of this nevve Gospel Rom. 10. Ioan. 20. Tit. 1. Damasus in pontifi VVho sendeth you M. Ievvel who sent your felovves Ioan. 10. If I should compare your Churches with the Primitiue Churche of God so narrowely as I might from the beginning to the ending we should finde scant any shadowe in your Churches of the Primitiue Church There no man preached but he that was lawfully sent as S. Paule saith And sent he was either of Christ visibly and sensibly speaking vnto him as when he said to the Apostles as my Father sent me I send you or els by the Apostles as when S. Paule sent Titus and Timotheus and S. Peter sent S. ClemeÌ„t and so S. ClemeÌ„t afterward sent others and so froÌ„ man to man Now tel vs who sendeth you to preach Not the Bishops which are the Successours of the Apostles whom ye despise Who then Forsooth one is sent of the common Weale which neuer had power to send him an other of the Ciuil Magistrate who also had no such power An other runneth before he be sent and therefore commeth of him selfe and is an Antichriste Moreouer the Apostles and their scholars preached that Irenaus lib. 4. c. 3. which they had heard preached whether it were written or no as S. Irenaeus witnesseth But you wil haue nothing preached except it be written and neuerthelesse yee preache that which is neither written nor deliuered you by Apostolike Tradition but as euery vaine Iustin in Apolog. 2. Lib. 4. cap. 32. light and idle braine imagineth of it selfe They mingled water with wine so doo not you They taught the Supper of our Lorde to be the new oblation of the new TestameÌ„t as saith S. Irenaeus You saie there is no external Oblation of the new Testament beside Christes death In the Primitiue Churche he that had ben twise maried Tit. 1. could not be Priest according to S. Paules doctrine You teache it to be lawful to make him Priest that hath ben ten times married and onlesse euery Priest 1. Timo. 5. and Minister among you be married ye iudge not wel of him S. Paule speaketh of olde Widowes who might marrie no more you haue none such But what ende shall there be of wordes If I would go thorough an hundred articles together it should appeare that ye haue nothing like the Apostles or like the Primitiue Churche There were Exorcismes Insufflations holy Oile holy Chrisme Incense Altares De Eccles Hierarchia as we read in S. Dionysius of al whiche ye haue not one and condemne the hauing of them They fasted a certaine number of daies as they who keeping the example of Christe fasted the forty daies Ignatius Epist ad PhilippeÌ„s Actor 2. 4. et 5 Math. 19. whiche we cal the Lenten Faste They prayed watched gaue away al their goodes and vowed so to doo they vowed chastitie and most exactly perfourmed the same they commended the Dead to God with praiers almose and Sacrifices whiche thinges ye for the most parte despise and accompt superstitious Iewel 133. S. Cyprian saith Si canalis aquae c. If the pipes of the conduit Ad Pompeium contra Epist Stephani which before ranne with abundance happen to faile do we not vse to search to the head The priestes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth hath fainted or failed in any point we returne to the very original of our Lorde and to the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that there hence we may take the discretion of our dooinges from whence the order it selfe and original first beganne Harding S. CypriaÌ„ alleged by M. Ievvel in an il cause The errour of S. Cyprian It is to be knowen M. Iewel that S. Cyprian vsed this saying in an euil cause as your selfe can not denie And therefore he defending a falshood was driuen to the very same shiftes whereunto al Heretikes are driuen He in deede was no Heretike For although he falsely beleued an vntruth and earnestly taught that those who had ben baptized of Heretiques if they came to the vnitie of the Catholike Churche should be baptized as hauing before no true sacrament of Baptisme yet he protested many times that he iudged no man that thought or taught the contrarie Cyprianus In epist ad IubatanuÌ„ contra Epist Stephani For he would not denie vnitie neither for that nor for any thing elles but liued a true Catholique and died a blessed Martyr Notwithstanding whiles he defended his errour he was deceiued in that Principle which now you allowe For whereas Pope Stephanus knowing that by SuccessioÌ„ the vse of the only laying of handes vpon them that had ben baptized of heretikes without baptizing them a new was deriued from the Apostles and receiued generally euen in Afrike it selfe vntil Agrippinus a Bishop of Carthage before S. Cyprian brake it whereas Pope Stephanus I say knowing this decreed that nothing should be changed or be taken vp a new S. Cyprian not being able to denie the tradition whereof Pope Steuen spake and which S. Cyprians predecessour Agrippinus first beganne to change fled to this common place that the worde of God was against the custome and therefore the custome ought to be broken The Pope defended with diuers other Bishops thâ—t the custome and Tradition was not against Gods worde Then said S. Cyprian
Priestes marriages Lib. 5. Cap. 1. Fol. 302. Speaking against the number of the seuen Sacramentes of the Churche Defence 213. Apocal. 5.8.7.1 to bring the Catholique Doctrine in contempte thus he saith As for the reasons that they of M. Hardinges side haue brought vs for proufe hereof they are too childish to be remembred For thus they saie The Booke in the Apocalyps hath seuen seales The seuen Angels there haue seuen Trumpettes Christ hath in his right hande seuen starres Christe walketh in the middes of seuen golden Candlestickes Zacha. 3. Exod. 37. Zacharie saw seuen eies vpon a stone There were seuen Candelstickes in the Tabernacle Ergo saie they there must needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche of God If this were true In Compendio Theologiae wee might be somewhat ashamed of our Doctours I graunte Neither can this Reason seeme but weake and feeble But what if al this be false Then are our Doctours not touched then maie their reasons be thought substantial and M. Iewel a vaine Iangler that thus stuffeth his greate Booke with Lies Peruse the place Reader In CoÌ„pendio Theologia lib. 6. cap. 5. that by his quotation he directeth thee vnto and thou shalt finde him like him selfe as he is euery where a false Minister For Compendium Theologiae whiche he allegeth hath farre otherwise It saith not there muste needes be iuste seuen Sacramentes in the Churche bicause seuen Seales seuen Trumpettes seuen Starres seuen Candlestickes seuen Eies be thus spoken of in the Scripture but it saith expressely Sacramenta figurata sunt in septem Signaculis The Sacramentes were figured or foresignified in the seuen Seales in the seuen Starres c. That the number of those thinges is made a reason or cause of the number of the Sacramentes it is M. Iewels Lie it is not the saying of him that wrote Compendium Defence 361. 8 Augustine fouly and dangerously falfied by M. Ievvel Hauing taken vpon him to proue that the Doctours of the Canon Lawe haue taught the people that Fornication betwen Singlefolke is no sinne among a huge heape of sayinges taken out of writers of sundrie sortes whereof not so much as one affirmeth it he bringeth in this saying pretending it to be S. Augustine in Quaestion in Exod. quaest 20. Illa Fornicatio quam faciunt qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae viros non habent an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro That kinde of Fornication which Single menne commit with single womenne whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel By this sentence as it is here set forth S. Augustine is set to schoole and made to confesse whiche he would neuer haue confessed whiles he liued that he could not tel whether Fornication that is committed betwene single folcke were forbidden or no whereby he should seeme to geue great libertie to single personnes to folow the filthy lustes of their flesh And here which is to be noted whereas the reste of the sentence is printed in the smal letter in which the Doctours testimonies be coÌ„monly set out these wordes in Latine Fornicatio an prohibita inueniri possit ignoro and these English wordes Fornication whether it be forbidden or no I can not tel are printed in a farre greater letter that they should readily appeare to the eie and be readde of al menne as if he were desirous as the Deuil him selfe is that al were persuaded that Fornication among single persons were no sinne Which doctrine there and in certaine other places of that Booke by sundrie colourable sayinges of Writers he seemeth to labour to persuade But the true saying of S. Augustine and the meaning of the same is farre otherwise For thus he saith not in Quaest in Exod. quaest 20. as the place by M. Iewel is falsly quoted but in Quaestionum super Exodum lib. 2. quaest 71. Sed si non omnis Fornicatio etiam Moechia dici potest vbi sit in Decalogo prohibita illa fornicatio quam faciunt viri qui vxores non habent cum foeminis quae maritos non habent vtrum inueniri possit ignoro As muche to saie But if it be so that al Fornication maie not be called also Moechia Aduouterie where that Fornication which menne commit that haue no wiues with womenne that haue no husbandes is forbidden in the Table of the ten Commaundementes whether it maie be founde or no I can not tel S. Augustine saith not simply he knew not whether simple Fornication were forbidden or no he knewe wel it was forbidden But if it were once denied that al Fornication were signified by the woorde and name of Moechia whiche properly is Aduouterie which worde is expressed in the ten Commaundementes the contrarie whereof he prooueth in that place very learnedly in this case and not otherwise he acknowlegeth him selfe not to knowe where the Fornication that is committed betwen single personnes maie be found forbidden where not generally but in Decalogo in the ten Commaundementes And this is the only point wherein S. Augustine confesseth his ignorance Howbeit in the same place he sheweth that vnder the name of Moechia al manner Fornication is comprised and that therefore in the tenne Commaundementes it is forbidden no lesse then Aduoutâ—riâ— as I haue at large declared in this Treatie Lib. 5. Cap. 15. where M. Iewels falsehood is further detected But what meane I to laie foorth places by M. Iewel falsified and corrupted If I woulde make profession thereof I ought to laie foorth his whole booke new printed For of such stuffe the whole consisteth One place bicause therein he thought to touche mine honestie I can not let passe Thus it is Consider Reader hovv far suche a false forger is to be trusted Hauing in my Confutation reprooued the Lady A.B. for turning these wordes out of Fulgentius formam serui and formam Dei asmuch to say the fourme of a feruaunt and the fourme of God into Manhed and Godhed wherby a false meaning is conueighed in against the true presence of Christes bodie in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter least I should haue seemed ouer sharpe in rebuking a woman whereas in deede for a Doctor of Diuinitie to confute a woman I thought it no great Conquest after certaine other wordes of reprouse Confutation Fol. 41.2 thus I say Whether I maie without breache of courtesie charge her with so heinous a crime or no I doubte Perhappes as shee passeth the bondes of womanlie state in presuming to medle so farre in these perillouse matters c so maie I seeme to forgete courtesie thus roughly to blame so softe a creature Defence fol. 89. Nowe commeth me in this Master of Defence and for the loue of his good Ladie laieth busily about him driueth very fiercely at me though his strokes light not on me and like a kinde harted Louer saieth very much in her praise and not a litle to my dispraise that shee forsooth is a Ladie of
Defenders require vs to follow the example of S. Irenaeus in that he as they saie appealed oftentimes to the oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time and whiche it was hard to beleeue that they had erred thus I saie Confut. â—â—4 a. Ye would seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of S. Irenaeus We are content with al our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that Tradition Irenaeus lib 3. ca. 8. which is from the Apostles which as he saith is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them With Irenaeus leauing other Churches whose succession of Bishopes it were a long worke to reherse we require to haue recourse for trial of our Faith to the tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche which he termeth greatest oldest Idem lib. 3. cap. 3. best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo most glorious Apostles Peter and Paule We appeale to the Faith of that Churche taught abrode in the worlde and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saith Irenaeus must al the Church of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of al and for that the tradition of the true doctrine whiche the Apostles lefte behind them is there faithfully kepte Wherfore if ye would after the counsel of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine whiche hath continued by Successions of Bishoppes euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stand to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope that ye wil folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose bodie your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraunce villanously burned at Lions Anno Domini 1562. after it had rested there thirteen hundred yeres and more In al these wordes as thou seest reader I say not as M. Iewel beareth her Maiestie in hande I doo that we must learne to know the wil of God only at the Popes hande But I declare whether we may most safely resorte for decision of the controuersies that be betwixte vs and the Protestantes Whereunto M. Iewel hath not yet answered ne neuer shal be hable to answere though in the Defence he haue shuffled together a great heape of allegations nothing perteining to the present purpose as his custome is to doo and a great parte of my confutation there he hath cut of M. Iewel cutteth and mangleth the Confutation in infinite places leauing out wordes of greatest vveight and therby hath fowly mangled the same as for his aduantage he hath done in infinite places leauing out the matters whereunto he had not what reasonably to answere See the place Reader Defence pag. 701. and thou shalt finde my worde true Item there Iewel That in the Popes onely holinesse standeth the vnitie and safetie of the Churche Confut. 204. b. Harding If I had so said in a right sense it might wel be allowed Howbeit thus I said Confut. 204. b. As Christe gaue vnto S. Peter and his Successours for the benefite of his Churche a supreme auctoritie and power so for the same Churches sake for whose loue he deliuered him selfe to death by petition made to his Father he obteined for him and his Successours Ioan. 14. Luc. 22. the Priuiledge of this Supreme and most excellent Grace that their Faith should neuer faile In consideration of whiche singular priuiledge obteined by Christe and graunted to the See Apostolike and to none other S. Gregorie rebuketh Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople so much as one that presumptuously vsurped that new name of vniuersal Bishop against the Statutes of the Gospel and against the decrees of the Canons To coÌ„clude if either S. Gregorie or any other maÌ„ should saie that the Churche dependeth vpon one man he might seeme to saie truthe meaning rightly and that not alone nor without good authoritie For such a saying we finde vttered by S. Hierome Hieron Contra Luciferian The saftie of the Churche saith he dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest priest who if he haue not auctoritie peerlesse and aboue al other there wil be so many schismes in the Churche as there be priestes Which peerlesse auctoritie aboue al other as S. Hierome in that place doth attribute vnto the Bishop of euery Dioces directly so consequently to Peters successour to whom it was said Feed my shepe Iohan. 21. For by what reason in ech Dioces it behoueth one priest to be highest ouer other Priestes by the same and in like proportioÌ„ no lesse it behoueth that in the whole Church one Bishop be highest ouer other Bishoppes I meane for auoiding of schismes This reason is not ne can not of M. Iewel be auoided Of other thinges impertinent he bringeth vs great stoare out of other men in the Defence Defence pag. 452. but to this very reason wherein standeth the pointe touching the maintenance and preseruation of vnitie he saith nothing Item there Iewel That vvho so euer is diuided from the Pope must be iudged an Heretique and that vvithout the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation Confut. 306. b. Harding Who so euer is diuided not onely from the Pope but also from any other Catholique Bishoppe in faith ought to be iudged an Heretique As touching obedience Iohan. 21. whereas by Christe he is commaunded to Feede his Lambes and his sheepe and thereby hath commission to gouerne them how can he be saued from the rauening woolues who through disobedience refuseth to come into that Folde and to be fedde and guided of that high Pastor I confesse that in certaine cases besides faith a man may disobey the Pope and yet not be remoued from all hope of saluation My wordes for whiche you make so muche a doo are these vttered vpon occasion of your Apologie Confut. fol. 306. b. Ye put vs in minde to consider how that your selues are those priuate hil Aulters and darke groues For ye be they that stoppe the people from the commoÌ„ Temple of Christendom the Catholique Church out of which is no saluation the head whereof sitteth in Peters Chaire at Rome Item there Iewel And yet as though it vvere not sufficient for him so vainely to sooth a man in open errours he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a kinge Confut. fol. 80. a. 305. b. Harding Neither haue I in any place soothed the Pope in open Errours but haue graunted that certaine Popes had their Errours either before they were called to that roume or also afterwarde holding them priuately and as priuate Doctours That the Pope erreth how is it denied But that by any publique decree geuen out to be holden and obserued of the Churche they euer mainteined or gaue assent or
wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
of the ministration of them I vtterly condemne That I saie Their Faith is no Faith it is the sixthe lye I confesse it to be a Faith touching the pointes wherein they agree with the catholique Churche In the other pointes I saie it is no Faith but errour and heresie Albeit Arius the heretique had a Faith Eunomius had a Faith Nestorius Euctyhes Sabellius Photinus Apollinaris briefly al Heretiques had their Faithes but al were false Faithes as much to say no Faithes but as the Latines cal it Perfidia M. Iewel for some shewe of vpright dealing hath filled his margent in this place with cotations as thicke as they maie stand one by an other directing the reader to my bookes If it shal please the reader diligently to peruse the places bothe in my Confutation and in my Reioinder he shal trie him to be as he is euery where a false and a shamelesse lyer As for the Quenes Lawes The Quenes Lavves and Parlamentes and Parlamentes for change of Religion and Faith what haue I to doo with them whether they be lawes and Parlamentes or no Be they as they be It is not my profession to discusse that matter If there be any that doubte thereof let the learned men of lawe be demaunded their opinion If they wil not or if they be loth to speake what they thinke let the questiō be differred vntil the time come that M. Iewel and I shal be placed where we shal no more contende about the authoritie of mannes lawes 2. Cor. 5. but shal ech of vs receiue according to that we haue done in our bodies that is to saie accordingly as we haue in our doctrine and life either kept or broken Goddes lawes The age to come perhappes shal be hable to saie more therein then this present time It is an olde said sawe Filia temporis Veritas Truth is the daughter of time Let vs not trouble our selues about this odious question M. Iewel I praie you but referre it ouer to the time to come Yet bicause in your pretensed Defence ye beare menne in hande that I seeme to saie Defence pag. 595. that the Parlament holden in the firste yere of the Quenes Maiesties reigne was no Parlament for that the Bishops refused to agree vnto the statute made for change of Religion I wil here truely laie forth my wordes in whiche you auouche I seeme so to saie that it maie appeare to al menne what a quareller you are These be my wordes Confut. fol. 276 a. Where haue ye treated of your matters That matter hath benne treated saie ye in open Parlament with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Conuocation First in what Parlament Meane ye the first of our Soueraine Lady Quene Elizabeth or any of those of king Edward the sixth his daies c. If ye meane as by reason you must the Parlamentes of these later daies the first of al did make most for you and yet how open was it for you Had ye any place at al in it Were ye admitted within the doores Or had ye any thing to doo in that assemblie Consider then with what Consultation your purposes were concluded Did they tarie manie monethes about it Had they Bishoppes Had they Diuines and the most learned to reason too and fro with al libertie Was the authoritie of the Vniuersal Churche of Christe and the doctrine of the Auncient Fathers considered Ye saie in Latine Plenis Comitijs that is in the ful and whole assemblie as though none at al had there resisted but euery man had yelded to your matters What saie ye then of the Spiritual Lordes a great parte of the Parlament and without al doubte the parte whiche must be chiefly and onely regarded when the Question is of Religion How many of them gaue their voice to your Gospel Yea whiche of them al did not resiste it c. As of the Spiritual Lordes ye had none at al so of the Temporal ye had not al and so had ye also in the lower house very many and wel learned that spake against you * These vvordes folowing M. Ievvel nipte avvaie in the Defence And mo would had conscience benne as free as auctoritie was dredful And yet cal ye this a ful Parlament and a Parlament whiche had al his partes wholy fauouring you * Vpon these wordes M. Iewel maketh muche a doo in the Defence as if I had denied that Parlament to be a Parlament for lacke of the Bishoppes consent But whether I said so or no let these mine owne wordes before rehersed be the trial Touching the matter it selfe he saith how truely I doubt that in the Parlamentes of England for any Statute to be lawfully enacted the consent of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes hath not ben thought necessarie Defence pag. 595. and that matters haue passed only by the more parte of voices yea although these be his very wordes al Archebishoppes Defence Ibidem and Bishops were neuer so earnestly bent against it And yet he saith further whereat I marueil that Statutes so passing onely by the voices of the Lordes Temporal though the Lordes Spiritual dissente neuer so muche haue neuerthelesse alwaies ben confirmed enacted and published vnder the names of the Lordes Spiritual and Temporal If it be so then I perceiue it faieth with the lordes Spiritual as it faieth with me For as M. Iewel hath published and said many thinges vnder my name that I neuer said nor meant to thintent to discredite me if any happily be so simple that wil beleeue him So by this tale lawes be published vnder the name of Archebishoppes and Bishoppes who are the Lordes Spiritual vnto whiche they neuer gaue their assent but contrary wise earnestly dissented What this is to be called in the Statutes of the Realme I knowe not but in the writinges of priuate menne suche as Maister Iewels and myne are this practise of fathering wordes and sayinges vpon a man whiche he neuer said nor wrote is accompted vnlawful and false and commonly is named forgerie falsifying and belying the chiefe flowers wherewith M. Iewel alwaies decketh his garland He referreth me for further proufe of this matter to the Recordes of a Parlament holden by king Edward the first at S. Edmundes Burie the Archebishoppes and Bishopes being as he saith quite shutte forthe Anno Domini 1296 where he telleth me it is written thus Habito Rex cum suis Baronibus Parlamento Clero excluso statutum est c. The king keeping the Parlament with his Barons the Clergie that is to saie the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes being shutte forth it was enacted c. Perhappes the inferiour Clergie was excluded who as I haue heard Lawiers saie in olde time came to the Parlamentes and had their place in the lower house But that the Archebishoppes and Bishoppes were excluded thereof I doubte Item saith he in the time of king Henrie the thirde a statute touching the legitimation of
Bastardes An. 1273. In prouisione de Martona cap. 9. paste wholy with the Lordes Temporal whether the Lordes spiritual would or no yea and that contrary to the expresse Decrees and Canons of the Churche of Rome Al these thinges saith he the wise and learned could sone haue tolde me And faine would I know of the wise and learned in deede whether al these thinges be true or other wise Verely for my parte I haue great cause to doubte If an other man had said them I should rather haue beleeued them As for M. Iewel I haue so generally founde him false in reporting al mennes sayinges whiche I examine by their bookes that I see good cause to misturst him euery where when so euer I lacke the bookes from whence he bringeth his allegations And although al that here he reporteth touching this matter were truely reported yet thereby it is not proued that al was lawfully and wel done But hereof as I said before I refuse to entre dispute But now whereas M. Iewel committeth Religion and al matters touching Faith vnto the Lordes Temporal and Commons assembled in Parlamente and wil that al orders and Statutes by them made and enacted concerning the same stand for good and lawful though the Bishoppes dissent neuer so muche By this he maketh the Faith not a Standerd to measure our opinions and iudgementes by as it ought to be but he maketh the willes and fansies of the Lordes the Standerd whereby to measure our Faith Faith made chāgeable according to the change of times And so the Faith shal be changeable according to the change of times For whereas al menne know in how fewe thinges the Lordes dissent from the wil and pleasure of the Prince who seeth not how thus it maie come to passe that our Religion and Faith shal change at the pleasure of euery Prince for the time being and that so at length we shal haue no stable Religion nor Faith at al If M. Iewel wil saie it behoueth al menne to know Gods worde and not to suffer them selues to yelde vnto any thinge that is not allowed thereby what remedie can be prouided against al errour when Princes and Lordes shal finde suche Doctours and Preachers as M. Iewel is who shal easily persuade the people that to be the meaning of Goddes worde by which the Princes and Lordes maie acheeue their desires But hereof I shal perhappes haue occasion to speake more hereafter Now whereas he complaineth so greuously of me for that I cal their Church I meane them that made the Apologie and their fauourers a malignant Churche a new Churche erected by the Deuil a Babilonical Tower a heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge a Schoole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie If he his felowes and their folowers wil repent them hartily and vnfeinedly of their errours and heresies and returne home againe vnto the Catholique Churche if they wil ceasse to diuide and scatter abroad with the deuil the author of diuision and gather together with Christe and repaire vnitie if they wil leaue the manifolde and absurde confusion of opinions and doctrines whiche their sundrie sectes doo professe and mainteine stubbornly if they wil leaue to prepare a waie for Antichriste by their euil doctrine leading the worlde to al libertie of the flesh if they wil cal to God for grace and dispose them selues to humilitie if they wil at length heare the Catholique Churche if they wil acknowledge their wicked doctrine against the daily Sacrifice to procede out of Satans Schoole as it is confessed by Luther him selfe if they wil not mainteine their Robberies and Spoiles of Churches as iuste deedes if they wil forsake their Incestuous and Sacrilegious Marriages Briefly if they wil amende wherein they haue offended I wil gladly reuoke those wordes and how so euer in respecte of time past they haue deserued so to be spoken of I wil speake of them no other wise then of the Children of the Churche then of our dere brethren then of Goddes frendes Thus I haue answered the chiefe partes of M. Iewels epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and by repeating myne owne wordes which I was forced to doo I haue shewed euidently to the Readers eye how shamelesly he belyeth me and my Treaties Whereof the Reader maie take a view and so iudge what credite he deserueth in the rest of his Defence As for the rest of his epistle consisting wholy of flatterie I thinke not worth the answering Neither hath he vsed any more truthe in his Preface to the Christian Reader and in his Epistle to me set at the ende of his Defence where he filleth his magent with great numbers of Quotations pretending thereby the absurde and vntrue pointes in the Texte reproued to be founde in the Treaties whiche so busily he quoteth Now if I should in likewise answer to euery suche parte in the said Preface and Epistle conteined by these fewe it maie appeare to what hugenesse my booke would growe and of the whole what vnprofitable matter would rise soothly none other but a cōtinual and lothsome declaration of his vntrue dealing in one sorte or other But for so much as the same is by this briefe Answer to his Epistle dedicatorie alreadie sufficiently discouered that other labour maie seeme needelesse As we finde him in this so we finde him in the rest though otherwise not very constant yet in the rate of his writing one manner a man that is to saie one that euery where maketh his onely aduantage of lyes falsifyinges and corruptions How vniustly M. Iewel obiecteth sharpe speache and vncourteous wordes vnto his Aduersarie and how iuste cause there was that suche order of speache should be vsed The .2 Chapter GEntle Reader cōsider I pray thee indifferently how the case standeth betwixt M. Iewel and me Before he entreth into his Defence of the Apologie betwen his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and his Preface to the Reader he hath extraordinarily inserted foure leaues In which he laboureth al that he can to perfourme two thinges to discredit me and to aduaunce his owne credit To bring this to passe First he accuseth me next he excuseth him selfe He accuseth me of vncourteous Wordes he excuseth him selfe of fowle Vntruthes setting forth a colourable Viewe of a few of the same How reasonably he doth the one and how sufficiently the other by that I shal here declare thou maist iudge First touching wordes Where so euer godly zeale and iuste griefe moued me to vse sharpe speache albeit nowhere I vse so sharpe as the indignite of the thing required of al those places he hath caused certaine my wordes to be culled out and to be laid together as it were in a table before the Reader And bicause he would not seme scorneful euen there reprouing me for the same he calleth them forsooth certaine principal flowers of M. Hardinges modest speache And least he should at any time leaue his common
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
Esaie Esai 5â— This is my couenaunt with them my spirite whiche is in thee and my wordes that I haue put in thy mowth shal not departe from thy mowth and from the mowth of thy seede and from the mowth of thy seedes seede from this time for euer Lo here ye heare bothe the wordes of God and the Spirite of truthe by whom the wordes may be rightly vnderstanded promised to remaine with the Church for euer Thus we are wel assured that the Churche hath neuer failed nor wanted Goddes worde goddes Spirite and Goddes truthe But ye my Maisters of the new learning do say that the Churche failed and was destitute of Goddes worde and of his spirite of Truthe for the space of nyne hundred yeres and more vntil Martin Luther came and restored the lost Gospel By vertue of whiche Gospel neuer preached before ye claime the right of the Church and so would dispossesse vs wherein of necessitie ye must graunt one of these two either that Christe the Sonne of God promised more then he perfourmed whiche were heinous blasphemie or that your Churche hath continued til this day and shal continue to the worldes ende If to eschew the reproche of so wicked a blasphemie ye graunt the continuance of your Churche ye must tel vs where it was before Luther began to preache that ye cal the Gospel Name the place where was it Or was it somewhere without a place Dic quibus in terris eris mihi magnus Apollo If it were at al where were your Bishops What were their names or were they men without names Bring forth your Originals your Registers your Rolles of Bishops that folowed one after an other by lawful succession For this were a sure way for proufe of your right Tertull. In prascript Optatus August muche commended and vsed of the best learned Fathers Your Actes and Monumentes where be they Haue ye none of greater antiquitie then those late of Foxes making If ye had a continual succession how came Luther and Zuinglius first to the Gospel how was al the light quite out before how were al the fonteines of the water of life vtterly dryed vp before his time for so ye write in your Apologie This this can not stand together M. Iewel by no meanes as al the world may see So then it is we kepe our ancient Possession ye heaue and shooue to remoue vs from it We be of the howseholde ye are strangers We are the heires of the Apostles ye are forrainers We are the lawful Children of the Churche ye are Bastardes to be shorte and plaine whereas we are Catholiques what foloweth but that ye be Heretiques The case standing thus what great offence haue I committed if where I defende the common cause of the Churche being moued with dew zeale and iuste griefe of mynde to see your vngodly dealinges I forgete sometimes the flattering Titles wherewith ye woulde your proceedinges to be magnified and vse wordes more agreable to your desertes O ye saie I vse vncourteous and vnciuile speache Why sir if ye skreake like Frogges must we saie ye sing like Nightingalles If ye crowe like proude Cockes must we saie ye mourne like simple Dooues If ye byte vs like Mastiâ—â—s must we say ye licke vs like gentle Spaniâ—h If ye consume vs and deuoure vs like rauening Wolues must we say ye profite vs like good Sheepe Must we tel the worlde that your Serpentes be Fisshes your Snakes be Lamproies your Scorpions be Creauises briefly that your deadly Poison is holesom Triacle What were this but to please men and to deceiue Goddes people But let vs go from Metaphores and come to the plaine mater If your Doctrine be false as by most sufficient waies we haue proued it to be shal we be vnciuile excepte we sooth it If your deedes be vngodly as the worlde seeth and rueth shal we be vncourteous excepte we iustifie them If ye say Nay for Yea and Yea for Nay in Goddes causes shal we be blamed as men vnciuil and vncourteous except we vpholde your Yea and your Nay We can be content to lacke the praise of suche sinneful Ciuilitie of suche wicked Courtesie If any priuely pike money out of our purses steale our goodes robbe by the high waye kil men and attempte traison to their Princes person standeth it with good manner to cal them Pikepurses Theeues Robbers Murderers Traitours and whereas you and your felowes teache and stubbornly mainteine a false doctrine concerning the real presence that here I speake of no other pointes by the Churche and by Luther him selfe the first founder of your owne Gospel condemned for Heresie must it needes be an vncourteous parte to cal you Heretiques To touche some of your rawest Gaulles for making proffer to whiche ye wince and kicke so muche euery where â—nd specially where ye laye forth al my sharpe wordes with suche diligence gathered together out of my bookes into one heape before your Preface to the Reader For so muche as it is geuen forth by Luthers owne confession that by the conference and disputation which the Deuil had with him he was persuaded to defie the Masse and become enemie to the blessed Sacrifice of the Churche and your selfe M. Iewel haue geuen your verdite in fauour of Luther and Satan Sathans doctrine Sathan their Schoole Maister In the Replie art 1. Diuision 2. allowing Satans Doctrine in that point and Luthers conformitie imbracing the same also for your owne parte as you haue openly witnessed in your Replie what offence was it to say for whiche you shewe your selfe greeued that ye ioined with Satan and concerning the spite ye beare at the Masse to cal Satan your Schoolemaister That I called this new founded Churche of the Protestantes a Babylonical tower not without iuste cause It angreth you that I cal this new Church of yours for so a Gods name we must name it Your Babylonical Tower And this is for a heinous worde scored vp among the rest in your said Rolle you tel the Quene of it also in your Epistle to her Maiestie but how iustly ye be offended therewith let it be considered by that I shal here briefly declare Dissensions among the Protestantes Who knoweth not that is any thing acquainted with the affaires of oure age into how many Sectes they haue diuided them selues that forsooke the Catholique Churche sithence Luther beganne to leade vs a newe daunce in Religion what controuersies debates and strifes about the weightiest pointes of our Faith haue benne stirred vp and moste earnestly mainteined among them Who hath not heard of the brawling and skolding betwene Luther and Zuinglius and the vpholders of either side about the Doctrine of the Euchariste Neither hath the matter benne handled with any better quiet betwene the Osiandrines and the Stancarians touching the Iustification of man the one Secte attributing it vnto Christes Diuine nature the other vnto his humaine nature onely Againe what sturre hath benne made about
man knoweth not what is meant by this words Apostata it may here be said that Apostata is he that forsaketh either the faith whiche in Baptisme he promised to keepe or that Rule and Order of Religious life whiche by solemne vow and open protestation at his entrie into Religion he promised to leade his life in Of the first sorte Iulianus that wicked Emperour and Porphyrius are examples So are the great Soldans Mammaluches and many of the great Turkes Ianizaires Of the second sorte be suche Moonkes and Friers and al other whatsoeuer Religious that foresake their habite willingly departe out of their Cloister and returne vnto the order of secular personnes Of whiche sorte there be mo seene abroad in the world at these daies then euer were in our Forefathers time If I cal these Apostates I cal them by that common name by whiche al the worlde hath euer called them And therefore the offence is very smal if it be any at al. Verely it is no greater then to cal them Theeues that for Theafte be hanged at Tyborn As touching the other terme Loose Loose whereas sithence the Apostles time vppon Deuotion many bereued them selues of their owne libertie and for Gods sake bounde them selues by solemne Vow to a straight and hard order of life and this sweete Gospel of yours setteth suche at libertie teacheth them to breake their promise made to God to caste of the yoke of Chastitie and to solace them selues with their Yokefellowes for so they cal their Strompettes to forsake the Vowe of Voluntarie Pouertie and to enioye al the worldlywelth they can procure and to shake of the yoke of al Obedience and to be vnder no rule but the rule of this Gospel that is to say to keepe what rule they liste this being so what great sinne was it to cal them Loose Speake we wel when of brute beastes breaking out of a pounde stable ropes fetters chaines or from the bridle we say they are brokeâ—â—â—ose 〈…〉 â—e accompâ—â—d il speache 〈◊〉 we say of Mâ—nâ—â—â— â—nd â—riers that â—oÌ„ne out or their Cloisters take Qâ—eanes vnder the name of holy wedlocke breake al vowes and al order that they be loose What bandes be stronger to binde man with al before God and in conscience then voluntarie Promises then Othes then solemne Vowes Who so euer maketh no conscience to breake these bandes if he be not a Loose man I know not whom we may cal a loose man And if such a one be a Loose man why may he not be so called specially that others may so the rather be fraid from the like contempte of God The founder of your Gospel Martin Luther was an Austen Frier neuerthelesse he married the waÌ„ton NuÌ„ne of Nymick in Saxonie Peter Martyr your great Rabbin was a Regular Chanon of the Order of S. Augustine He married at Strasburg Dame Katerine a loose Nunne Peter Martyr and dame Katerine the NuÌ„ne his vvife Oecolam padius Bucer a Dominican Pellican a FranciscaÌ„ Castalio a Carthusian Hooper Barlovv DounhaÌ„ Skory Barkley that ranne out of her Cloister at Metz in Lorraine Shal it be an vnciuile parte to cal them loose Apostates The Birgittine frier Oecolampadius the Patriarke of your felowes the Sacramentaries brake his vowe fled from his Religion married a wife saue the honour of true wedlock so did Bucer ablacke Frier so did Conrade Pellican a gray Frier so did Castalio a moonke Cartusian And for good manners sake shal we be afraid to cal them loose Apostates As for Mooncke Hooper the vsurper of Worceter and Gloueâ—ter Barlow of Chichester Frier or Chanon or bothe as I heare say Sir Downham of Westchester the Bonhome of Asheridge Frier Skory of Hereforde al married and the two olde good Fathers Frier Barkley of Bathe and Welles and Frier Couerdal Couerdal the Quondam of Exceter which after the death of their olde wiues haue of late yoked them selues againe to two yong wemen for their comforte in age forbearing to speake any worse worde of them bicause they be your very frendes may I not be so bolde as to cal them loose Apostates TOuching other bitter wordes gathered by you out of my writinges into your Rolle Huguenotes of France Gues of the lovv Countrie though your EuaÌ„gelical Brethern the Huguenotes of Fraunce and Scotland and the Gues of the low Countrie that haue robbed and spoiled so many Churches so many Monasteries NoÌ„neries and other places and haue burnt so many thousandes of faire bookes with the Libraries and coÌ„mitted so many horrible outrages I may not least I seme vncourteous cal them Theeues Churcherobbers the Deuils ministers Satans broode scholers of Satans schoole Caluinistes Satanistes Deuilish Rable Turkish Huguenotes c. For these be vnciuile and vnmannerly wordes saith M. Iewel and it is a great offence to vse them Though Frier Luther were taught of the Deuil in a night conference as he †See the Preface before my last Reioinder tovvard the ende confesseth him selfe to abandon the Masse and to worke al the spite he could against the most blessed Sacrifice of the Churche yet for ciuilities sake he may not be called the Nouice of the Deuil nor his Folowers the Ennemies of the Sacrifice neither may that be called the Deuils Schoole were the Deuil Luthers schoolemaster neuer so muche What Turkish wickednes hath proceeded out of this Doctrine who seeth not yet by M. Iewel it is beside good manner to cal it Turkish Doctrine The Professours of this doctrine and specially M. Iewel him selfe doo omitte no occasion yea they seeke al occasions they can to reuele and blase abroade vnto the worlde Chams broode the Defaultes and imperfections of the Catholiques without whiche menne liue not and chiefly if perhappes some Abuses haue creapte into some particular Churches they make muche of a litle folowing therein the facte of Cham Gen. 9. who reueled the nakednes of his Father Noe. This notwithstanding it is noted in M. Iewels Rolle of my sharpe woordes for a greuous offence that I cal such personnes Chams broode Who euer wrote so filthily and so bawdelike as Frier Bale Bale that Irishe Prelate of Oserie The harte can not be cleane whose eares can abide to heare such vncleane woordes Yet forsooth bicause he alwaies railed at the Catholike Churche and at the Clergie therof and wrought so mightily in the vineyard of their lorde that is to say in despite of the Pope and of al auncient order and religion it is skored vp by M. Iewel for a bitter speache that I called him Bawdy Bale geuing warning by that terme to al chaste hartes to refraine the reading of suche vnchast and filthy bookes That it was no great offence to cal M. Iewel him selfe a Lyer a Falsifier a Boaster a Scoffer AS for your selfe M. Iewel who euer was so vaine so foolish so insolent so cockish so mad as to make such a Chalenge to al learned men a liue And now how vnhable
vndoubted To this one argument M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to answere truely and directly You adde yet farther Christe wil be euermore with his Churche yea though the whole Churche of Rome conspire against him It is true M. Iewel And therefore this being a matter impossible that the whole Churche of Rome should be hable to deface Christes Gospel or to defeate Christ of his promise it must needes folow that where you say the Pope hath blinded the whole worlde you haue said most vntruly and haue auouched that thing which by your owne confession in this place was not possible to be done Againe seing that though the whole Churche of Rome conspired against Christe yet Christe wil be euermore with his Churche and these many hundred yeres Christ hath had no other Churche then the Churche of Rome for the Pope you say hath blinded the whole worlde and D. Luther began to publish the Gospel a general darkenesse going before it must needes folowe that the same Church of Rome was the true Church of Christ that the said Church neuer coÌ„spired against Christ that the Pope neuer blinded nor was euer hable to blinde the whole worlde briefely that the same whiche you cal blindnesse was good sight and that which you cal darkenesse was cleare light Verely either so must it be or Christes promise must faile Of the which promise of Christ and of a number of other sayinges in the Psalmes in the Prophetes and in the Gospel affirming and confirming the same it hath ben largely and sufficiently treated in the foresaid Treatise intituled The Fortresse of our first Faith annexed to the Historie of venerable Bede of late translated into Englishe If you M. Iewel or any of your fellowes wil auoide this argument that proueth a knowen continuance of Christes Church answer to the first parte of that booke If you can not auoide that one Argument your newe doctrine is plainely proued to be false and heretical and the Faith of our Forefathers is plainely proued to be the Faith of the true and onely Catholike Churche of Christe in earth You pretende as if ye had aduantage for that I spake but of a thousand yeres For thus you inferre Iewel ibidem Pag. 32. But vvhy do you so much abate your reckening VVhy make you not vp your ful accompte of fifteene hundred three skore and sixe yeres as ye vvere vvont to doo Ye haue here liberally and of your selfe quite striken of fiue hundred three skore and sixe yeres Harding That we haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres as M. Iewel cauilleth You say vntruly M. Iewel The. 8. Chapt. I haue not striken of the first fiue hundred yeres c. But I and others doo God be praised defende and mainteine the Catholique Faithe no lesse by the Doctours and witnesses of the first fiue hundred yeres then by the Doctours and Witnesses of these last thousand yeres Yea Sir it is wel knowen to them that haue perused bothe our labours that you allege moe writers of these later ages by ten to one then either we doo of the same or your selfe doo of the first fiue hundred yeres It is wel knowen our writinges are confirmed with the authoritie of the Fathers of the firste fiue hundred yeres We allege very seldome the writers of these later ages condescending herein to your infirmities whiche through weakenes of Faith doo reiecte these later Fathers as too yonge and require to be persuaded onely by the Doctours and Councelles of the first sixe hundred yeres And herein we doo willingly omitte the greate aduantage whiche we might haue if we should presse you with the Writers of these later ages This is wel knowen M. Iewel to al that knowe any thing in matters of these common controuersies We haue Gods holy name be blessed largely and aboundantly prooued the Reall Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse the Popes Primacie the vse of Images the Confession of sinnes to the Prieste the Inuocation of Saintes the Praying for the dead the Churche seruice in the two learned tongues Greeke and Latine and such other matters by you nowe brought into Controuersie we haue sufficiently prooued them I saye by the Doctours and Councels of the first sixe hundred yeres wittingly and willingly a very fewe places excepted absteining from the Writers of these last thousand yeres not bicause we refuse them or contemne them but bicause ye refuse them that we might seeme to vse the better meanes to persuade you whose couersion we seeke and labour for You say therefore vntruly that I haue liberally of my selfe quite striken of fiue hundred yeres c. The cause why I named but these last thousand yeres your selfe I am sure are not ignorant of But so it liked you to dallye and to answer a most earnest and important question with trifling toyes cauilles and wranglinges It was your exception M. Iewel and prescription of the first sixe hundred yeres It was your lewde contempte of these later ages It was your blasphemous assertion condemning the Churche of Christe so many hundred yeres of Idolatrie superstition and palpable darckenes which made me to chalenge you with Christes promise for the Continuance of his Churche these last thousand yeres If you denie this to be your opinion of the last thousand yeres beside your prescription insinuating no lesse of the nine hundred beside your former wordes of Luthers first publishing of the Gospel for so you terme your wicked Heresies your owne wordes in this place doo signifie no lesse For thus you saie euen in this page Iewel Verely in the iudgement of the Godly fiue hundred of those first yeres are more vvorthe then the vvhole thousand yeres that folovved aftervvarde Harding This comparison is odious The commendatioÌ„ of the first fiue hundred yeres in comparison of the later ages and litle becommeth a ChristiaÌ„ maÌ„ If you speake of learning and vertue though the comparison be odious yet is it more tolerable For learning and vertue may seeme to haue excelled more in those former ages then in these later specially vertue and holines of life when as the bloude that Chriâ—â— shed for redemption of the worlde seemed to mennâ—â— hartes yet fresh and warme as in a place S. Augustine writeth And therefore those tymes brought foorth moe Martyrs As touching learning it muste also be confessed that moe Doctours in both tongues then excelled The north partes of the world coÌ„uerted in these later ages This without preiudice to the learned Bishoppes and Godly people of Christendom in so longe a time afterwarde might perhappes to the commendation of Antiquitie be graunted Howbeit it is not vnknowen to the learned that in these later thousand yeres the Northe partes of the worlde being many large and sauage Countries haue benne brought to the faith of Christe many Bishoppes and Monkes of excellent learning and of great perfection of life haue flourished many Martyrs also haue suffred as al histories and Chronographies doo
witnesse Touching faith and doctrine of beleefe the first fiue hundred yeres no more vvorth then the thousand yeres that folovved But in respect of faith and the necessarie doctrine of our saluation it is a manifest blasphemie to saie that the first fiue hundred yeres are more worthe then the thousand that folowed For this assertion importeth that Christe assisted his Churche the first fiue hundred yeres absolutely and perfitely so that then the Pastours and Doctours of the Churches erred not in faith and doctrine but in the later thousand yeres the Churche was not so assisted of Christe and of the holy Ghost the Spirite of Truth but rather in suche wise neglected and forsaken as Idolatrie superstition yea palpable darkenes ouercame and preuailed And thus you M. Iewel who saie before Christ wil be with his Church euermore saie nowe otherwise that these thousand yeres are litle worth which is as much to saie as that Christes special prouidence hath failed his Churche after the first fiue hundred yeres And so shal his promise of his euerlasting assistance so oftentimes auouched in the holy Scriptures be founde to faile But Al menne be liers and God is true The promise of Christe the sonne of God is infallible The Churche therefore in no age or time wanted the assistance of Christe nor of the holy Ghost the Spirite of Truthe The Churche of Rome of whiche you speake so villanously neither hath preuailed The Churche of Rome the onely and true Church of Christe neither could possibly preuaile against Christe It hath preuailed against al Heresies and therefore no other Churche in the worlde appearing al these thousand yeres then the Churche of Rome by which worde I coÌ„prehende al nations agreing with the faith of that Churche that only was the true Churche of Christe and is to this daie and according vnto Christes promise shal endure to the ende of the worlde For as we shal not haue any other Christ so neither shal we haue any other Faith nor any other Church Iewel pag. 36. That the Princes and Free Cities of Germanie euer persecuted vs it is vtterly vntrue and like the rest of your tales None of them al no not one vvould euer suffer the same Doctrine of ours to be condemned Harding That the Sacramentaries haue ben persecuted by the Princes of Germanie and by their Doctours and by the free Cities The. 9. Chapt. This is so grosse and so palpable a lye that no man bâ—â— you M. Iewel would euer I thinke haue had the harte to affirme it so constantly and that in printe First Carolostadius Carolostadius the first professour in Saxonie of your Sacramentarie heresie was bannished out of al Saxonie by the procurement of Luther in the yere 1525. as witnesseth your owne frende Iohn Sleidan Sleidan Lib. 5. Histor Againe the yonger Princes of Saxonie and the Counteis of Mansfeld in the yere 1559. published eche of them a Write wherein they recken vp and condemne the one nine Lib. contra 9. Sectas Lib. coÌ„tra 11. Sectas Lauatherus in histor coÌ„tra Sacrament the other eleuen Sectes of the whiche your Secte of the Sacramentaries by name is one This is yet extant to be seene in print and can not be denied Lauatherus a Sacramentarie him selfe reporteth it Thirdly in the yere 1561. though in the meeting at Numburg by the intreatie of certaine Princes the Zuinglians were not condemned generally in al Germanie as the Princes of the Confession of Ausburg would openly and solemnely haue done yet in the same yere afterward in a Diet holden at Luneburg Lauatherus ibideÌ„ Surius FraÌ„ciscus Philippus in histor Albert of Hardenburg a great Zuinglian was openly condemned for an heretike Last of al in the same yere 1561. the Frenche Caluinistes were coÌ„maunded and forced by the Magistrates of FraÌ„kford either to practise no more their manner and order of religion there or to departe the Citie Yet you saie you were neuer persecuted either of the PriÌ„ces or of the free Cities in Germanie What shal I here speake of your brethren at Andwerpe whom the Martinistes for so they cal the Lutherans ioining with the Catholiques and putting them selues in armes draue awaie and compelled to flee the Citie If ye beleeue not me beleeue their flight beleeue your felow minister Hermannus the Predicant that of late was in Norwiche and now as I heare saie is driuen from thence I know not whither what fauour he and his felowes founde at the handes of the Martinistes Iewel Pag. 37. In deede certaine tovvnes of Germanie subiecte to Bishoppes in outvvarde vsages of their Churches remaine stil as they vvere before Yet neuerthelesse vvhere the Churches are popish the people of al sortes are Protestantes Harding This is a sensible lie and a mere sclaunder Great partes of Germanie yet remaining vvhole and Catholique The people of al sortes in Germanie where the Churches remaine Catholique do in suche numbers resorte vnto the seruice haunt the Sermons and frequent the Sacramentes as al that haue benne at Wormes at Spires at Augusta at Ingolstadt at Vratislauia and suche other Cities can beare witnesse that a man to saie as you saie must nedes proue him selfe gilty either of purposed lying as speaking against a knowen truthe or of a malicious iudgement as to iudge of mennes hartes contrary to their whole outwarde life and behauiour For by this you condemne of detestable Hypocrisie and dissimulation not only the people of al sortes in the forenamed Cities and diuers suche others where Catholiques liue mingled with Protestantes but also you condemne the whole Countries of Austria of Bauaria the great Dioces of Saltzburg of Passaw Mentz Treueres Coulen and other Territories where the whole face and shewe of Religion is onely Cathholike It is a smal token of grace yea of ciuill honestie for the setting forth of your conceiued opinioâ— so farre and so notoriously to sclaunder whole Natioâ— and Countries Iewel Pag. 37. Linea vlt. As for the VVest Spanish Indies the people there liued not only vvithout al manner knovvledge of God but also vvilde and naked vvithout any Ciuile gouernment Being in this miserable state and naturally by the very sense and iudgement of Common reason abhorring and lothing their ovvne blindnesse vvhat merueil is it if they vvere easy to be lead into any religion Harding M. Iewel attributeth the glorious conuersion of the Indians not to the power of the Gospel but to the leading of natural reason The 10. Chapt. What M. Iewel doo you enuie at the glorie of God Doth it greue you to see great Countries conuerted to the faith of Christe by them that be not of your Faith And wil ye needes to deface the power of the Gospel attribute the miraculous conuersion of that rude people vnto natural reason Had your heathnish harte herein rather acknowledge a leading of nature then the power of our Sauiour What could Porphyrie Iulian or Celsus
written if you had not changed the honest worde blame whiche I vsed The honeste vvorde blame by M. Ievvel charged into the filthy vvorde handle into the worde of vnhonest meaning handle whiche you would haue men beleeue that I vsed how should there haue risen of my wordes any opinion of il meaning Verely M. Iewel in your alteration of my wordes and placing in the steede of the worde blame the worde handle that seemed to you to serue better for your filthy purpose to disgrace myne honestie if you coulde there appeareth an euident argument both of false and also of malicious dealing Your very frendes must needes mislike with you if they haue any honestie for this your vnhonest handling You are neuer hable to auoide it cast vpon it what colours you can What woulde you sticke to speake of me were I dead that are not ashamed thus to belie me being a liue and occupied in shewing to the worlde with what impudent lyes ye blotte your papers Yet of al your foule shiftes this is one of the fowlest and such as in common persons is called you know what I am a shamed to speake it you are not a shamed to plaie the parte The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Pag. 90. VVe beleeue that the holy Ghost vvho is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from both the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakeable c. Confutation Cōfut fol. 41. b As we acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councelles whiche be esteemed of most authoritie We are sure they haue not Therfore we doo them to vnderstand that if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truthe that al truthe necessarily to be beleeued is not expressed in the Scripture and that other Councelles be to be receiued besides the foure firste whiche are allowed in England by Parlament * Left out by M. Ievvel as that wherein this point touching the Proceding of the holy Ghoste hath benne defined Concil Lugdunen Concil Florentin sub Eugenio 4. as also other definitions of the Church when vpon a new doubte rising an olde Truthe is by later publications declared c. * Iewel Pag. 90. Consider M. Harding notvvithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet hovv contrary oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the holy Ghoste can not be proued by expresse vvordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye say ye are right sure Harding That M. Iewel is not able to proue by Scripture certaine truthes whiche with the Catholiques he teacheth touching the holy Ghoste What folie is in frowardnesse The. 3. Chapt. it appeareth by M. Iewels trauaile to proue the Godhed of the holy Ghoste by Scriptures which I neuer denied nor euer gaue him such issue to proue But where he confesseth a Trinitie and that the holy Ghost is the thirde person in the holy Trinitie whiche holy Ghost also he confesseth to proceede from the Father and the Sonne though al these partes be true and Catholique yet I saie he is neuer hable to proue any of these pointes by any expresse wordes of the Scriptures Thinges beleeued and yet not expressely writen in Scripture Where can he finde this worde Trinitie in this signification in al Scripture Where hath he this worde Person in this signification in any place of the Scripture Where hath he in any expresse wordes of the Scripture that the holy Ghoste proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne Or where hath he in al the Scripture that the holy Ghost is rather the thirde Person in Trinitie then the seconde These are the pointes that M. Iewel is charged to proue by expresse wordes of Scripture and not that the Holy Ghoste is God The word Transubstantiatiō abhorred bicause it is not foūd in scripture expressely The worde Transubstantiation they abhorre bicause it is no where founde expressely in Scripture and yet they acknowledge the worde Trinitie and the worde Person both First Seconde and Thirde though these wordes be no where founde expressely in these significations in the whole bodie of the Scriptures So can these craftie Iuglers and false peruerters of Goddes truthe doo when they be disposed changing them selues into al manner colours like the beast Chameleon excepte the colour of good meaning and plaine dealing into whiche for any long time they can not change them selues Iewel Pag. 93. I trust Gentle Reader thou vvilt not looke I should ansvver al M. Hardinges ordinarie idle talke So should I loose good time vvithout cause and be ouer troublesome to thine eares O saith he what a world is it to see these Defenders They whiche haue not kepte the Vnitie of spirite in the bande of Charitie whiche S. Paule requireth but haue seuered them selues from the body of the Churche tel vs now forsooth they beleeue that there is one Churche of God O M. Harding if vve haue herein saide il then beare vvitnesse of the il If vvee haue saide vvel vvherefore make you this bitter outcries c. Harding The Protestantes claime by the great visible Churche and by the litle inuisible Churche as it serueth best their turne O M. Iewel if your saying and doctrine were one The. 4. Chapt. I would neuer reprehend you but when you say one thing openly an other thing priuily and haue diuers pointes of secrete Doctrine contrarie the one to the other when ye are driuen to the straightes as now claiming by an inuisible Churche no where appearing many hundred yeres together whiche to say the truthe is no Churche at al and now by your great visible Churche spred abrode in al kingdomes when ye haue made your packe what is this in effecte but in woordes for the time to sette foorth your beleefe of one Churche gloriously and when time wil not beare out this gaie glorious Confession of yours then as your manner is to runne to Corners to seeke some comforte of an vnknowen Inuisible Churche where both the Ministers the preachers the Sacramentes the people and their whole life are al together inuisible In the saying wherof what doo ye elles but vtterly denie that one Churche which ye ought to Confesse Iewel Pag. 93. VVe say See Reader hovv vvel this ghear is proued M. Harding fol. 25. a. that our Doctrine and the Order of our Churches is elder then yours by fiue hundred vvhole yeres and more If ye vvil not beleeue vs yet beleeue M. Harding he vvil tel you euen the same Marke vvel his vvordes These they be It standeth not with Christes promises made to the Churche that he should suffer his Churche to continew in darkenesse these thousand yeres past And
thus by secrete confession he leaueth vs fiue hundred three score and sixe vvhole yeres at the least that is to say the vvhole time of Christe of his Apostles and al the Godly learned Doctours and Fathers of the primitiue Churche c. Harding That by no such secrete Confession I haue graunted them the first fiue hundred yeres c. The. 5. Chapt. To bring M. Iewel once to feele his palpable grosnesse in mistaking one thing for an other thus I made my reason Christes promise is as wel warranted to the Church◠for the later thousand yeres as for the firste fiue hundred But it saued the Churche from errour the firste fiue hundred yeres by your owne Confession M. Iewel Ergo it hath saued the Churche from errour the later thousand yeres Where is the secret confession that I gaue you the firste fiue hundred yeres of light and lefte to my selfe the later thousand of Darkenesse It lieth you vpon to driue out that my secrete Confession by some woordes of myne whiche you shal neuer be hable to doo or elles to reuoke and agnise your wilful malice or your grosse ignorance If ye had any place of Scripture that said Christes promises were no longer warranted to the Churche then for the space of the first fiue hundred yeres you had some colour to triumphe But suche places of Scripture haue ye none nay ye haue the contrarie both for the presence of Christes special assistance Math. vlt. Iohan. 14. Esai 59. and of the holy Ghostes vnto the ende of the worlde What Scripture haue ye then to warrant the first fiue hundred yeres more then the later thousand Here I cal earnestly vpon you to answere Tel vs haue ye any Scripture to warrant the one more then the other No doubtelesse I am wel assured thereof And doth M. Iewel now that was woont to cal so busily for Scripture Scripture make warrant of the one more then of the other without al Scripture Yet once againe I cal vpon you to tel vs in what parte of that sentence is my secrete Confession conteined that al the first fiue hundred yeres are yours Tel it to my shame if you can spare me not If you can by hooke or crooke by wresting wringing racking or by any good drifte of reason boult out any suche secrete Confession of myne A free and liberal offer made to M. Ievv marke wel what I saie M. Iewel when you haue done it in deede as I am wel assured you shal neuer be hable I doo promise faithfully to yelde vnto you in al the rest of your Articles vppon Condition that if you do it not you shal in like manner yeelde to al the Articles of the Catholike Doctrine wherein I haue trauailed against you Lo here is a faire offer who can denie it Take it if you dare If you refuse it take the shame to your selfe Touchinge Lirinensis of whom in this place you speake besides all reason who geueth three Notes to knowe what Doctrine is Catholique you make suche a prety Limitation of his saying Pag. 94. that his three Notes so limited shall neuer stande vs in any steede Lirinensis purpose was to shewe vs certaine assured notes or markes how to know what doctrine is Catholique and what is heretical and erroneous thereby to instructe vs how to beware of false doctrine VVhat is Catholik by Lirinensis That is Catholique saith he that euery where euer more and of al personnes hath benne beleeued that is whereas the Churches were not corrupted saith your fond◠limitation and special Restraint But the Churches saith Lirinensis that teache doctrine agreable with these three notes of Vniuersalitie can not be corrupted in doctrine For these are the very true notes whereby to knowe sownde Catholique doctrine from corrupte as he auoucheth neither he only but S. Augustine also Wherevpon it foloweth that M. Iewels newe founde Limitatiō and special Restraint is a very vaine toie of his owne deuise Yea the Limitation as it is vttered vtterly destroieth Lirinensis general rule of his three Notes to know Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine If that which hath ben beleeued euery where euermore of al personnes may be corrupte doctrine then are both Lirinensis and S. Augustine vtterly deceiued in geuing vs such deceitful Notes Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. and M. Iewels Limitation and special Restrainte must take place On the other side if that doctrine whiche hath ben beleeued euery where euermore and of al personnes can not be but true Catholique and vncorrupte doctrine then may M. Iewel put vp his Limitation and special Restrainte in his purse which he expressed by these wordes whereas the Churches were not corrupted Verely the same is vtterly vnsauery and hath no grounde of learning nor of witte nor of common reason To liue euery where euermore emong al sortes of menne honestly to hurte no man to geue al other menne their owne are three special Notes taught by Iustinian for menne to know who doo liue Ciuilly vnder the lawe But M. Iewel if he plaie with Iustinian as he hath with Lirinensis and S. Augustine wil not leaue the matter so rawly he wil rush in with a Limitation and a special Restrainte saying it is to be vnderstanded whereas he that so liueth committeth or offendeth nothing against the lawe If it would please him to take a daie to consider the matter better he might see that he who keepeth him selfe within these Notes or preceptes appointed by Iustinian dothe no more offende against the Lawe of man in dooing then the Churches that teache doctrine agreable with Lirinensis and S. Augustines Notes offende against the Lawe of God in beleeuing which doctrine of necessitie must be vncorrupte and the Churches likewise that so teache must of necessitie be in doctrine vncorrupte if S. Augustine and Lirinensis say true But iuggle on M. Iewel your false plaie shal doo no great harme as long as it commeth to light in this sorte alwaies to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 94. The Catholique Churche of God standeth not in multitude of personnes but in vveight of Truth Harding That the Catholique Churche standeth in a multitude of personnes which M. Iewel denieth If not in multitude of personnes The. 6. Chapt. why then allege you this place of S. Augustine Aug. li. de Genes ad literā imperfect cap. 1. to choke your selfe with al Saith he not the Churche is called Catholica Catholique quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est Bicause she is vniuersally perfite and halteth in nothing and is not nowe shutte vp in one onely Countrie as the Churche of the Iewes but powred throughout the whole worlde If the Churche be powred throughout the whole worlde then must it needes stand in multitude of personnes onlesse your wisedome can conceiue a Churche spred throughout the whole worlde without a multitude of personnes that
so it be imagined to be planted in stockes stones trees grasse rootes fire water earth aier and brute beastes If not in multitude of personnes why is it said dominabitur à mari ad mare Psal 71. à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum he shal beare rule from sea to sea and from the riuer to the vttermost coastes of the world If not in multitude of persons what meant God the Father to say vnto Christ his Sonne Psal 2. as Dauid prophecied Aske of me and I wil geue vnto thee the Nations for thine inheritance and the endes of the earth for thy possession If not in multitude of personnes Apologie why triumphe ye so in your Apologie bicause al the worlde doth nowe beginne as you saie to beholde the light of your Gospel mightily spred abroade If not in multitude of personnes why is it said to Abraham Gen. 22. in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes in thy seede al nations shal be blessed Why is it said to the Apostles Math. vlt. euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos in nomine patris filij Spiritus sancti Goo ye and teache ye al nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghoste Why sayd Christe to his Apostles Act. 1. Eritis mihi testes in Hierusalem in omni Iudaea Samaria vsque ad vltimum terrae Ye shal beare witnesse of me in Hierusalem and in al Iewrie and in Samaria and vnto the vttermost partes of the worlde Knowe you not M. Iewel This opinion of M. Ievvel tendeth to the heresie of the Donatistes that S. Augustine allegeth al these and many mo such places against the Donatistes And what meane you After al these Heresies of our wretched time shal we haue also a Donatiste of you Menne marueile much why you are so contrarie to your selfe and that you lacke the discretion to discerne what maketh with you and what maketh against you What discretion was that to bring in S. Augustines authoritie that saith the Churche is called Catholique bicause it is spred throughout the whole worlde to prooue that the Catholique Churche standeth not in multitude of personnes Can the Churche be spred abrode into euery parte of the worlde without multitude of personnes Pag. 94. Or wil ye the two personnes you talke of out of Fortalitium Fidei M. Ievvel saieth the Catholique Churche standeth in the vveight of Truth and as for personnes it may stand in tvvo should bodily replenish euery quarter of the worlde and contrarie to your selfe graunt that one body may be in diuerse places at one time Or wil you the Weight of Truthe wherein the Catholique Churche standeth as you saie to wander rounde aboute the worlde tanquam accidens sine subiecto Or meane you by your two personnes out of Fortalitium alleged to appointe the Churche to be onely not as the Donatistes did in Aprica alone excluding al the quarters of the worlde besides whiche is more tolerable but in some two personnes as for example your selfe perhappes and M. Grindal or Frier Whitehed or Frier Couerdal or some one or other of the Puritanes and that al the rest of the Realme are no members of your Catholique Churche Or meane you in the excluding of the multitude of personnes to leaue your selfe some refuge if it happen your number to decay to the inuisible Churche as ye were wont to doo being driuen into any narrowe streightes by drifte of reason where menne shal haue as muche comforte of preaching of the Sacramentes and of good examples as the hungrie man hath comforte in his great hunger if it be his fortune to finde a stone Consider wel of your folie M. Iewel in the allegation of S. Augustine and weigh with your iudgement how contrary he is to your doctrine Aug. li. de Genes ad literaÌ„ imperfect cap. 1. He saith that the Catholique Churche is vniuersally perfited and halteth in nothing Meaning thereby that the Churche can not erre ne can not be deceiued This speaketh he expressely of the Churche that is spred throughout the whole worlde that is to say of the visible Churche Your doctrine is that the visible Churche doth erre hath erred and may erre as wel in Doctrine as in manners Thus you see your lucke is very il in the allegation of Fathers in that you beare vs in hande they make with you when they make fully against you Ibidem The truthe say you be it in many or in fewe is euer Catholique And what if it were in none at al Were it not also Catholique If no then the substance of truthe as it is truthe muste needes depende vppon some person and to haue the same called Catholique Lirinensis and S. Augustine telleth you that it must be euery where euermore and of al sortes of menne be beleeued If yea then haue ye once found out a Catholike truthe and a Catholique Churche planted not onely in a fewe personnes but in no personnes at al. The case that Fortalitium Fidei setteth out by waie of supposition which you allege though vntruly as your custom is for his wordes are not duo homines but duo veri fideles hath taken place in Adam and Eue Also in Noe and his smal familie But take the worlde as it is now ful of people I aske you whether it be agreable with Scripture to saie that the Catholique Church consisteth onely and alone in any two personnes as for exemple in M. Iewel if you wil and Sir Iames Proctor your worthy Chauncellour or in any two others But how saie you wil not the Prophete Dauid be founde altogether contrarie and put you in minde of the verse Postula à me Psal 2. dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam possessionem tuam terminos terrae Aske of me saith the Prophete in the person of God the Father speaking of the dilatation of Châ—istes Churche and I wil geue thee the Gentiles for thine inheritance and thy possession the vttermost Coastes of the worlde Can you M. Iewel make that narrow and smal to serue your turne which the whole Scripture openly auoucheth to be great and large Whereas you defende Luthers dogge eloquence by the great zeale he had of Goddes glorie and of his holy Temple Luthers eloqueÌ„ce defended by M. Ievvel eadem Pag. 94. Matthaeus Iudex after that you haue once read ouer Matthaeus Iudex a Lutheran and seene how Luther raileth at Oecolampadius and Zuinglius your graund Captaines yea the patriarkes of your progenie and considered by what names he calleth them saying they are as euil as the Deuil him selfe it is likely you wil repente that you euer became his aduocate who so roughly handleth them that are the founders of your owne Synagog In the very nexte line before you allege my wordeâ— with the vehemencie of whiche you doo greatly dislike your selfe in
Father euer thus scanned the vvordes of the popes commission Or vvhy doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely vvithout farther Authoritite c. Harding Feede my Sheepe are wordes of Peters commission to gouerne the Churche and the same is proued by the Fathers You tel my tale in suche wise The .17 Chapt. as you maie best make the matter seeme weake and sclender First I thinke good here to set before the reader who is now made iudge of this controuersie myne owne wordes as I vttered them my selfe Then I shal the better frame my Answer to that you obiecte Thus I saie Where these Defenders â—onfâ—t fol. 46. a. as others the Aduersaries of this vnitie saie that Christe is this one shepheard this one Head who is so Christe is the principal Head and of him selfe the Pope is the Ministerial Head and vnder Christ aÌ„d for Christ Math. 28. 1. Pet. 2. A man is necessarie to doo Christes steede of outward gouernment in in the Churche The necessitie and institution of the Head of the Churche Genes 32. Num. 12. we denie not Shepeheard of his flockâ— Head of his body Bridegrome of his spouse Prince of hiâ— kingdome as it is before declared yet saie they therein nothing to the disproufe of the catholique doctrine touching vnitie of the Head which is in steed and ministerie of Christ For whereas the Father hath geuen to Christ al power in heaueÌ„ and earth so as he only is the King Head ruler Iudge of al the Pastour and Bishop of our soules and therefore they whiche we acknowledge to be Kinges Headdes Rulers iudges Pastours and Bishoppes in earth be his Vicares Lieuetenantes Vicegerentes and Ministers al this power by what name so euer it be called being suche as is exercised and administred by his worde neede it is that for asmuche as Christe now dwelleth not with vs in visible presence his Churche haue one man to doo his steede of outwarde ruling in earth by his worde to administer al that is behooful and to performe the duetie of the head in respecte of the bodie Now that Christe is not conuersant with vs visibly as he was with his Disciples before his passion and preacheth no more vnto vs with his owne mouth sensibly to atteine the vnderstanding of his wil we maie not looke to haue God appeare vnto vs as he did vnto the Fathers of the olde Testament to speake to vs as he did to Moyses face to face mouth to mouth as the Scripture saith to sende vs his Angel as he did to the Virgine Marie to instruct vs with visions from Heauen Luc. 1. Actâ— 10. 2. Cor. 12. as he instructed Peter to take vs vp into the thirde heauen as he tooke Paule there to heare the secretes of his wil but it behoueth vs to be content for the working of that whiche remaineth to be done touching our Saluation with suche order as hath pleased him For it is manifest that Christe perfiteth al the Sacramentes of the Churche He it is that baptizeth he it is that forgeueth sinnes he is the true priest that hath offered him selfe on the Crosse and by whose power his body is daily consecrated and offered on the Aulter Yet bicause he would not remaine in visible presence with al beleeuers he chose menne to be his Ministers by whom the forsaid thinges should be done and ministred to them By like reason forasmuch as he would take froÌ„ the Churche his corporal and visible presence it behoued some one man to be put in CommissioÌ„ for bearing the charge and taking care of the Churche in lieu and steede of him selfe For this purpose before his AscensioÌ„ he said to Peter whose loue he had tried and found to be most feruent aboue al others feede my shepe and before his Passion Thou being againe coÌ„uerted strengthen thy brethren Iohan. 2â— Luc. 22. Math. 16. And to him specially he said by promise To thee wil I geue the keies of the kingdome of heauen thereby to shewe that the power of the keies should be deriued to others by him for the better keping of the vnitie of the Churche Now let it be iudged with what substantial learning you haue coÌ„futed this doctrine If it had not ben sounde and such as clearely openeth what we meane The former vvordes of my Confutation lefte out of M. Ievvelleâ— Defence when we cal the Pope the chiefe Pastour and supreme Gouernour of Christes Flocke doubtelesse you would not haue leafte it out of your booke For you making a shewe as though you had printed my whole booke againe and so confuted it take onely that pleaseth you and leaue out what seemeth to hard for you to answere mangling disordering and confounding my whole treatie to thinâ—â—â—â— it may beare the lesse face of learning and of good proufâ— of the thinges I intreate of which is a foule practise nâ—uer vsed by any lerned man hitherto And yet you would men to beleeue you deale truly and plainely in laying foorth my Confutation Yet here hauing nothing to saie elles least you should seeme to geue ouer you demaund of me what auncient Father euer thus skanned the woordes of the Popes Commission or why I haue auouched so great a matter of my selfe without farther authoritie Thus when I bring Fathers you cal for Scripture when I allege Scripture M. Iewels vvaie to continue vvrangling Iohan. 21 you aske what auncient Father euer vnderstode it so or why I dare so handle the Scripture so ye wil be sure not to lacke mater of wrangling what so euer I saie Yet thus I answer It is no hard peece of worke to proue by sufficient authoritie that these wordes Pasce oues meas feede my sheepe spoken to Peter and in him to his successours In Math. Homil. 55 in Iohan Homil 87. Grego lib. 4. epi. 32. Pascere gaue Peter and his successours Authoritie gâ—neral to gouerne the whole Churche S. Chysostome treating vpon these wordes saith as it is before alleged that the charge to rule the whole worlde was geuen to Peter and coÌ„sequently to his successours S. Gregorie saith the same as is before rehersed Pascere is not a word that signifieth to feede only as you know but also to rule and gouerne and therefore Homere calleth King Agamemnon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Pastor that is to say the ruler of the people And that it may appeare that I auouche not this matter and applie the place of S. Iohns Gospel to it of my selfe onely without farder Authoritie as you say it may please you to heare S. Ambrose teaching the same and in manner with the same woordes that I vsed writing vpon the .24 Chapter of S. Luke thus he saieth Ambro in cap. 24. Lucae Iohan. 21. Dominus interrogabat non vt disceret sed vt doceret quem eleuandus in coelum amoris sui nobis velut Vicarium relinquebat Sic enim habes Simon Ioannis diligis
Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither art thou onely the Pastour of al the sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours Demaundest thou of me howe I prooue it Forsooth out of the woorde of God Ioan. 21. For I praie you to whom I wil not saie of the Bisshoppes but also of the Apostles were al the sheepe so absolutely and indeterminately committed If thou loue me Peter feede my sheepe whiche sheepe The people of this or of that citie of this or of that countrie or kingdome My sheepe quod he Who now doth not euidently see that Christe did not appointe him certaine but assigned him al Where no distinction is made there nothing is excepted Thus you see how litle cause you had to saie why doth M. Harding auouche so great a matter of him selfe onely without farther authoritie Iewel Pag. 103. And if this so large Commission be to Feede and feede so many vvhy then doth the Pope feede so litle Harding The Pope feedeth and why Christe appointed him to be his Vicare The stubbornesse of Heretiques is a lette The .18 Chapt. that his diligent feeding can not take place in many Howe manie Articles of the Christian Doctrine had the peruersitie of Heretiques wrapped vp in a Confusion and brought in doubte that fewe menne knewe howe to vnfolde them The Popes diligent feeding hath so by General Councelles through his authoritie and care assembled vnfolded and disclosed all the false craftes and sleightes of Heretiques that nowe euery man that wil maie haue in a readinesse by perusing the Canons of the Councelles what Doctrine is true and holesome what is false and heretical Of late yeares he emploied his diligence in calling all The Pope feedeth but some refuse his good foode and feede of Poison the Protestantes vnto the Councel of Trent he gaue them safe Conductes to come and departe without danger of their personnes and there during the time of their abode to propone argue and dispute of the pointes in cōtrouersie with al freedome VVhy the Ministers of England vvēt not to the General Councel at Trent most liberal and free Safe cōductes being graunted them But ye of England knowing your owne weaknesse and that ye were not so wel hable to prooue your doctrine in learned Assemblies as ye were with boasting Chalenges and bolde talkes to prate it out of pulpites emong the ignorant at home least with shame ye should there haue ben put to silence and prooued vnlearned wylily absented your selues Notwithstanding libertie was geuen you to come and saie for your Gospel what ye could and as it appeareth in the Actes of the same to frame your safe Conducte if ye desliked the fourme set foorth in the Councel in as ample manner for your owne safegarde and benefite as ye could deuise Iewel Pag. 103. Againe vvhere learned M. Harding to reason thus Christe is ascended into heauen Ergo the Pope is head of the vvhole vvorlde Harding Nay where learned M. Iewel to fashon suche peeuish argumentes of his owne deuise and fathering them vpon his Aduersarie to scoffe at them as if they were of his Aduersaries making If this Argument be naught let him amend it that framed it If it be ridiculous the Reader may see what a ridiculous head he hath that brought it forth My reason dependeth in this sorte If it had pleased Christ to haue remained here visibly emong vs alwaies and to haue taken continual order him selfe for the external gouernment of the Churche we should not haue needed any other general head but Christe him selfe who had ben sufficient But for asmuch as Christes bodily and visible presence through his Ascension was for good purposes taken awaie from vs that we might haue better occasion to exercise faith and the holy Sacramentes it was needeful that in his steede he should leaue some one General Vicegerent In. 24. caput Luca. and Vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose termeth him that should haue ful authoritie to rule the whole Churche The partes of this reason are wel linked together both by diuinitie and also by logique As M. Iewel hath framed it it serueth for nothing but to make sporte emong Prentises I allege not Christes Ascension for the ful and sufficient cause of hauing one general Head as M. Iewel would beare menne in hande if any be so simple to beleeue him The cause vvhy Christe hath placed his Vicare here in his stede Ambros in 24. cap. Lucae but as the occasion why he should place an other in the absence of his Visible person in his steede The necessitie of the Churche that disorder and confusion be auoided and that vnitie be kepte considered together with the great loue that Christe hath to the Churche is the ful cause why Christe placed in his steede a general Vicegerent Vicarium amoris sui the vicare of his loue as S. Ambrose calleth him Iewel Ibidem But ye saie God speaketh not novv vnto vs mouth to mouth c. Harding What rule is like to be if the Scripture be made ruler and gouernour Your drifte is in this place The. 19. Chapt. to put the whole gouernment of the Church quite from the Pope whom Chrysostome as I haue tolde you before taketh to be the vniuersal Head bicause he is S. Peters Successour and to driue vs to deliuer the whole rule vnto the Scripture and that being remoued quite from any one certaine sense and leafte to mennes Phantasies to descant vpon it What vnitie and good Order wil folowe thereof they of Germanie ye of England the Lutherans the Zuinglians the Caluinistes the Osiandrines the Zuencfeldians the Anabaptistes the new Puritanes that now spring vp so freshly and other sectes wherewith the worlde swarmeth haue tolde vs already the whiche could neuer yet come to any good vnitie and common agreement Ye leaue vs also an other sorte of gouernours Apostles Ephes 4. Prophetes Euangelistes Pastours and Doctours of whom S. Paule speaketh If these be the Gouernours appointed by holy Scripture how falleth it out that ye contrary to Scripture haue geuen the supreme gouernment of your Church of England to laye Princes some being vnder their nources gouernance some being women The cas◠thus standing if the Ministers agree not in doctrine hovv shal vnitie be made and the people kepte vnpoisoned If these forenamed the Apostles c. be the right gouernours how happeth it that they can doo nothing concerning Order to be taken for the Churche but by authoritie deriued from a mere laie power If these that is to saie the successours of the Apostles Prophetes c. be the right gouernours what if any of these iarre and fal at square emong them selues as it hath oftentimes ben seene either within the compasse of one Realme or in diuers Realmes and doo poison the people with sundry Heresies to whom shal we resorte to haue them called home and reduced vnto order whom haue
muche as Priestes there sate in the Church where Deacons vsed to stande and the Deacons neuer durste to sitte emonge the Priestes Hiero. in eadeÌ„ epistol ad eÌ„uagriuÌ„ whiles the Bisshop was present Although he confesseth that once in the Bishoppes absence he sawe a Deacon when disorder tooke place sitting emong the Priestes and at priuate Feastes in priuate houses geuing the benediction to Priestes Whereby it is manifest that the preferring of Deacons aboue Priestes rose not of any ordinarie custome of the Churche of Rome where al states best keept due order in the Bisshoppes presence but of the priuate pride of some Deacons and of the simplicitie of the people of that Citie Therefore S. Hierome saith not Quid mihi profers Romanae Ecclesiae consuetudinem why bringest me forth the custome of the Romaine Churche but Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis consuetudinem Why bringest me the custome of one Citie The ignorant people made more of the Deacons Euseb lib. 6. Eccles histor ca. 33. bicause they were but fewe in number to wit but only seuen at one time as Eusebius maketh mention whereas at that time there were six and fortie Priestes in that Churche whom the people as S. Hierome saith for the number had in contempte Vbicunque fuerit Episcopus siue Romae siue Eugubij siue CoÌ„stantinopoli siue Rhegij siue Alexandriae siue Tanis eiusdem meriti eiusdem est sacerdotij Beholde Reader how M. Iewel hath translated this sentence Where so euer there be a Bisshop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanis they are al of one worthinesse they are al of one Bisshoprike Where the nominatiue case Episcopus Bishop being of the singulare number so placed by S. Hierome with the verbe Est also of the singular number bicause it serued not M. Iewels turne guilfully in translation a change is made into the plural and thereby the meaning of the sentence cleane altered to thintent the sentence might so the rather sounde to his purpose whiche is to make al Bishoppes equal in authoritie of rule and gouernment Now S. Hieromes wordes doo signifie that a Bishop is of the same Merite and of the same Priesthood whether he be Bishop of a great Citie or of a litle And here is to be noted that M. Iewel can not yet brooke this worde Merite and whereas before he vsed the worde Preeminence being by me admonished of it now he translateth eiusdem est meriti they are al of one worthinesse Likewise he termeth eiusdem sacerdotij of one Bishoprike for of one Priesthood How so euer you bring in S. Hierome for the equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes it forceth not It is wel knowen S. Hierome neuer dreamed of suche an equalitie as you would haue when he wrote this sentence Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet Hieron aduersus Luciferainos cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in Eccesia efficientur schismata quot sacerdotes The sauegarde of the Churche dependeth vpon the dignitie of the highest Bishop vnto whom if a peerelesse and supreme power be not yelded there shal arise so many Schismes in the Churche as there be Priestes If God haue a special regarde to the safetie of the Churche and if the Churche can not be safe without there be a peerelesse and a supreme power yeelded vnto the highest Priest whiche is a Bishop as S. Hierome saith what so euer M. Iewel saie to the contrarie God must needes allowe the hauing of suche Bishoppes as shal haue power peerelesse to rule their flockes not onely their lambes but also their sheepe to witte the Clergie the Priestes and the Deacons vnder them Hieron Lib. 1. aduersus IouinianuÌ„ He saith also Propterea inter duodecim vnus eligitur vt capite constituto schismatis tollatur occasio Therefore is there one chosen emong the twelue saith S. Hierome who should be made Head that the occasion of Schisme might be taken away And that we should be put out of doubte who chose that one to be Head aboue al the reste and why Peter was rather chosen then Iohn that was so deerely beloued S. Hierome saith delatum est aetati partly in consideration of his age and partly bicause he would deliuer Iohn from the enuie that he should haue incurred if he had benne placed in that roome being so yong a man M. Iewel had neede to looke better vpon his booke and to learne by these places better to tempre the other sayinges of S. Hierome S. Hierome saith vnitie can not be kepte the Churche can not be in sauegarde Schismes can not be suppressed by equalitie of Priestes with Bishoppes Ergo there must be Bishoppes that shal haue power to rule the Priestes and the reste Thus M. Iewels equalitie wil not stande with the doctrine of S. Hierome Although saith S. Augustine after the names of honours now vsed in the Church the state of a Bishop be greater August Epist 19. then the state of a Prieste yet in many thinges Augustine is lesse then Hierome Notwithstanding we ought not to refuse and disdaine to be corrected of any man though he be our inferiour Vpon these wordes of S. Augustine M. Iewel reasoneth that the difference of power and authoritie betwixte Bishoppes and Priestes had no allowance from Scripture but by the custome of the Churche As though one thing could not be allowed both in Scripture and also by the common custome of the Churche The common custome of the Churche teacheth vs to feare God daily doth not the Scripture allowe the same To honour our Father and mother And doth not the Scripture commaunde the same But M. Iewel would faine make debate betwixt the custome of the Churche and the holy Scripture and therefore ful prouidently he hath interlaced a Parenthesis of his owne politike deuise in this manner The office of a Bisshop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by authoritie of the Scriptures but after the names of honour whiche the custome of the Churche hath now obteined I haue here before declared that there was a secte of Heretiques calles Aerians as S. Augustine reporteth who denied that there was any difference at al betwen the state of a Bisshop and the state of a Prieste August de Haresib ad Quoduult deuÌ„ Haeres 53. whiche opinion being accompted for heresie by S. Augustine ought to stop any reasonable mans mouth and to persuade him that S. Augustines opinion is quite contrarie to that which M. Iewel holdeth Iewel Pag. 1â—1 As for Pope Leo his ovvne authoritie in his ovvne cause can not be great The Emperour saithe Nemo debet sibi ius dicere ff Li. 2. de Iurisdict omniuÌ„ Iudicum 16. q. 6. Consuetudo in margine No man maie minister lavve vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrees Papa non
to conclude with S. Augustine thus he saith speaking of S. Peter Quis nescit illum Apostolatus principatum August de Baptis cōtra Donatist lib. 2. cap. 1. cuilibet Episcopatui praeferendum Who knoweth not that that Princehood of the Apostleship is to be preferred before euery Bishops state Where is this great blasphemie becomme that M. Iewel so horribly layth to our charge What wil he accuse al these holy and learned Fathers of Blasphemie I hope though he spare not vs yet he wil be good Maister vnto S. Bernard S. Gregorie S. Augustine S. Chrysostome and to Eusebius As for S. Leo who is plainest of al I dare not here to name least I should seeme to reuerse M. Iewels high iudgemēt whom he hath so late here before by his solēne sentence cōdemned Yet it maie please him to be aduertised by vs that Titles which appertaine to God him selfe when they are in their dewe order and degree geuen vnto menne Exod. 7. Psal 81. conteine no blasphemie Moyses is called in Scripture the God of Pharao And rulers in the Psalmes are called also by the name of Goddes Iewel As for the other authoritie of S. Cyprian M. Harding saith vvee vnderstood it not and therefore he vvilleth vs to looke better vpon our bookes The Councel is good c. Harding The origen of vnitie beginneth of one who is Peter by S. Cyprian The popes preeminence proued by S. Basil The .35 Chapt. The fruiteles paine you tooke in laying forth so many places of S. Cyprian together and al to the ende menne should conceiue you vnderstode your booke doth geue vs sufficient witnesse that either of malice you wil not or of ignorance you can not declare to what ende al those places doo perteine If you had ioined to these places of S. Cyprian whiche you allege but one place of the same S. Cyprian which you durst not talke of least al your confuse heape should stande you in no steede the case had ben so plaine that the shame would haue benne yours S. Cyprians whole purpose is to shew Christian menne not by long talke of argumentes but by the marking of two thinges that is to saie the Churches receiued Doctrine and the Head of the Churche how to staie them selues in the right faith and vnitie when so euer Schismes and Heresies shal happen to rise For this purpose he speaketh of the Churche and of the vnitie of the Church whiche vnitie among diuers other thinges doth principally stand in the hauing of one Bishop to be Head ouer al. Although saith S. Cyprian Christe geue equal power after his resurrection to al the Apostles and saie Cyprianus de Simplic Praelatorum as my Father hath sent me euen so doo I sende you receiue ye the holy Ghost if ye shal remitte any mannes sinnes they shal be remitted vnto him if ye shal retaine any mannes sinnes they shal be reteined yet to the ende he would make Vnitie manifest he ordeined by his authoritie the beginning or origine of the same vnitie to beginne from one to witte from Peter The reste of the Apostles were the same that Peter was endewed with like felowship both of honour and of power but the beginning riseth forth from vnitie to witte frō Peter that the Churche may be shewed to be one Hitherto S. Cyprian This place of S. Cyprian doth sufficiently proue not only that Christe beganne his Church from Peter but also why he would there should be only one from whom he might beginne his Churche and not those many of whom M. Iewel dreameth bicause saith he he would haue his Churche shewed one The plaine meaning whereof can be none other but that the Vnitie of the Churche can by no other waie so conueniently stand as by the hauing of one visible Bishop head ouer al. As the multitude of Priestes Hieron ad Euagrium of whom S. Hierome speaketh in his Epistle to Euagrius was driuen to choose one to be Bishop emong them in Alexandria that was S. Markes see to auoide Schismes that would haue rent and torne the Churche asundre and to keepe Vnitie euen so S. Cyprian sawe that emong the multitude of Bishoppes the case being like to auoide Schismes and to keepe vnitie Hiero. aduersus louinianum lib. 1. it was necessarie one Bishop to be placed head ouer al. The which thing S. Hierome saith Christ did when he ordeined Peter Head of the Apostles to take awaie occasion of Schisme As touching the place of S. Basil alleged for the gouernement by a multitude of Pastours if M. Iewel meane Basil ad Neocaesarienses that S. Basil thought the multitude of Pastours should rule without hauing of one Head he is farre deceiued and yet that must he meane otherwise that place maketh nothing for him But that vntrue meaning of his needeth no other wise to be controlled then by S. Basil him selfe writing thus to S. Athanasius Basiliusin epistol ad Athanasium pag. 549. In Graeco codic Frobe◠Visum est vtile scribere ad Episcopum Romanum vt consideret res nostras iudicij sui decretum interponat vt quoniam de communi Conciliari Decreto aliquos inde huc emandari difficile est ipse sua authoritate negotium componat c. It hath seemed good vnto vs to write vnto the Bishop of Rome that he wil consider of our cases or * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 visite vs for so the Greke maie be translated and to determine the matter by his sentēce that for as much as it is hard for any to be sent hither from thence by authoritie of a common and Synodical Decree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he take the matter into his owne hande and by his authoritie strike the stroke Why should S. Basil being a Greeke of the East Churche thinke it conuenient to write to the Bishop of Rome being in the Weast to consider of or to visite them of the East for so to the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth their state and to sende foorth a Decree of his iudgement and to geue sentence onlesse he agnised the prerogatiue of the Bishop of Rome whiche your felowes denie Verely by this place it appeareth euidently of what iudgemēt S. Basil was touching the Bishop of Rome his Supreme Authoritie in rule The more ye stirre this matter the more it turneth stil to your owne shame Iewel Pag. 115. The vvhole body of Christendome vvas diuided into foure Patriarkeshippes vvhereof the first vvas Rome Harding Search out M. Iewel The .36 Chapt. by whome was the whole Body of Christendome diuided into foure Patriarkshippes whereof the first and chiefe was Rome and why Rome was the first and not rather the second or third thereby shal you perceiue how your selfe vnwares are taken in your owne snare In Praefat. Nicen. Concil In the Preface of the Nicene Councel we read that the Churche of Rome was preferred before al other not
and the Popes to be his successours He hath shewed also how the other Apostles were equal with Peter and how in other respectes they had lesse power for ordinarie continuance in their successours then Peter had But if I were of M. Iewels boasting humour I should now dissemble al this and write it in here a fresh as though nothing had benne said thereof before But I trowe wise men espie that smoky pride in him wel ynough I wisse lesse bookes might haue serued him for any good stuffe that is to be founde in them The fourth Booke conteineth a ful refutation of al that M. Iewel hath laid together in his pretensed Defence touching the Succession of Bishops in the Churche from the Apostles time vnto this present age Item a proufe of the necessitie of Confession WRITING the Confutation of the Apologie I had occasion to speake of the Succession of Bishoppes Thereto M. Iewel in his pretensed Defence hath replied at great length Wherein bicause he may perhaps to the vnlearned seme to haue some colour of aduantage against vs the matter being of good weight I iudge it not vnprofitable to bestow some labour and here to coÌ„fute his whole Defence touching that point whereby I doubte not it shal appeare how litle credite he deserueth if his sayinges be throughly examined where he blazeth forth most shew of learning That it maie appeare how directly he answereth the pointes of this Controuersie and of what pith his owne sayinges and how muche to the purpose his testimonies be and how truly alleged and that al be made the more plaine and cleere I wil reherse first the place of the Apologie that gaue me occasion to treat of Succession then the wordes of my Confutation against whiche M. Iewel bendeth the force of his Defence After this I wil laie forth his whole Defence sentence by sentence worde by worde as I finde it in his booke and so briefly as I can refel the same I am driuen to reherse that discourse of my Confutation againe bicause a great parte of the Defence depending thereof and being directed against the same onlesse it were againe by rehersal commended to the readers view and memorie our whole disputation would be obscure and vncertaine And this haue I donne also the rather to thintent the reader might haue that parte of my Confutation intier and whole whiche M. Iewel hath caused to be set forth in his booke pared hewed dismembred and altogether disgraced The Apologie parte 2. Cap. 5. Diuis 1. in the Defence Pag. 125. Furthermore vve saie that the miâ—ister ought laufully duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Church of God and that no man hath povver to vvrest him selfe into the holy Ministerie at his ovvne pleasure VVherefore these persons do vs the greater vvrong vvhiche haue nothing so common in their mouthes as that vve do nothing orderly and comely but al thinges troublesomly and vvithout order and that vve allovv euery man to be a priest to be a teacher and to be an interpretour of the scriptures Confutation fol. 56. a. Al from starre to starre leafte out by M. Ievvel Saing and doing are two thinges Ye saye wel in outward appearance Would God your doing were accordingly Albeit the manner of your saying had ben more coÌ„mendable if in so weighty a point you had spokeÌ„ more particularly and distinctly not so generally and confusely * Ye saye that the minister ought laufully to be called for so hath your Latine and duely and orderly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God Why do ye not so why is not this obserued among you Gospellers What so euer ye meane by your Minister and by that office this are we assured of that in this your new Church Bishops Priestes Deacons Subdeacons or any other inferiour Orders ye haue none No holy orders among the gospellers Leâ—â— out by M. Ievvel In saying thus we speake not of our Apostates that be fledde from vs vnto your congregations Who as they remaine in the order which they receiued in the catholike Church so being diuided and cut of from the Church and excommunicate laufully they may not minister the sacramentes * For where as after the doctrine of your newe Gospel like the foreronners of Antichrist ye haue abandoned thexternal Sacrifice and priesthod of the newe Testament and haue not in your secte consecrated Bishops and therefore being without Priestes made with lawfull laying on of handes as Scripture requireth al holy Orders being geuen by Bishops only how can ye saie that any among you can laufully minister or that ye haue any lauful Ministers at al This then being so let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences And that for the better vnderstanding I may directe my wordes to a certaine person let him be the author of this Apologie or bicause his name to me is vnknowen let him be M. Iewel for with him gladly would I reason in this point the rather for acquaintaince and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche where my selfe had a rome How saye you Syr minister Bishop ought the Minister to be laufully called ought he duely and orderly to be preferred to that office or as the Latine here hath promoted or put in authoritie ouer the Church in the Apologie this Defender saith yea Leaft out by M. Ievvel Then answer me directely How proue you your selfe laufully called to the roume you take vpon you to occupie First touching the ordinary Succession of Bishops from which as you knowe S. Iraeneus Tertullian Optatus and S. Augustine bring argument and testimonie of right and true religion do you allow the same with those fathers or no If not then dissent you from the learned and most vncorrupte antiquitie which is not reasonable neither then are you to be heard If yea then how can you recken vs vp your succession by which you may referre your imposition of handes and consecration to some of the Apostles or of their scholers as the foresaid fathers did to repel the nouelties of heresies and defende their continual possession of the Churche Which if ye go about how can ye but to the great hinderance of your cause bewraye your weake holde For whereas succession of doctrine must be ioyned with the succession of persons as Caluine in his institutions affirmeth and Beza auouched at the assemblie of Poyssi in Fraunce and we also graunt Succession of doctrine ioyned vvith succession of persons how many Bishoppes can you recken whom in the Churche of Sarisburie you haue succeded as wel in doctrine as in outward sitting in that chayre How many can you tel vs of that being your Predecessours in order before you were of your opinion and taught the faithful people of that Dioces the doctrine that you teache Dyd Bishop Capon teach your doctrine did Shaxton did Campegius did Bishop Audley Briefly did euer any Bishop of that See
before you teache your doctrine It is most certaine they did not B. Shaxton and B. Capon repented Leaft out by M. Ievvel How so euer those two first named only in some part of their life taught amisse how afterward they repeÌ„ted abhorred your heresies and dyed catholikes it is wel knowen Now besides these whom elles can you name M. Iuel can shew no laufull successioÌ„ in the bishoprike of Salisbury If you can not shewe your bishoply Petigree if you can proue no Succession then whereby holde you Wil you shew vs the letters patentes of the prince Wel may they stand you in some stede before men before God who shal cal you to accompte for presuming to take the highest office in his Churche not duely called thereto they shal serue you to no purpose I cast out by M. Ievvel Here if you alleage an interruption of this Succession of doctrine as it hath ben alleaged by some of your side then must you tel vs when and where the same beganne which you can neuer do In prascis ptionibus aduersus haereticos These be TertulliaÌ„s vvordes You know what Tertullian saith of suche as ye be Edant origines ecclesiarum suarum c. We saye likewise to you M. Iewel and that we say to you we saye to eche one of your companions Tel vs the original and first spring of your Church Shewe vs the register of your Bishops continually succeding one another from the beginning so as that first Bishop haue some one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men for his author and predecessour For by this waye the Apostolike churches shewe what reputation they be of As the Church of Smyrna telleth vs of Polycarpe by Iohn the Apostle placed there The Church of the Romaines telleth vs of Clement ordeined by Peter S. Augustine hauing reckened vp in order the Bisshops of Rome to Anastasius successor to Siricius who was the eight and thirteth after Peter saieth that in al that nuÌ„ber and rolle of Bishops there is not found one that was a Donatiste Epist 165. and thereof he concludeth Ergo the Donatistes be not catholikes So after that we haue reckened al the Bishops of Sarisburie from Bishop Capon vpward we shal come at length in respect of doctrine and orders to S. Augustin the Apostle of the English who was made bishop by S. Gregorie and from S. Gregorie vpward to S. Peter And in al that rewe of Bishops we shal finde neuer a one that beleeueth as M. Iewel beleeueth ergo your Zuinglian and CaluiniaÌ„ beleefe M. Iewel and of the rest of your felowes is not catholike Leaft out by M. Ievvel But what speake we of succession to them who haue no orderly succession as no secte of heretikes euer had Hard queâ—â—ionâ— proponed to M. Iuel Therefore to go from your Succession which ye can not proue and to come to your Vocation how say you Sir you beare your selfe as though you were Bishop of Sarisbury But how can you proue your Vocation By what auctoritie vsurpe you the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes What can you alleage for the right and proufe of your Ministerie Who hath called you Who hath layd handes on you By what example hath he done it How and by whom are you consecrated Who hath sent you Who hath committed to you the office you take vpon you Be you a Priest or be you not If you be not how dare you vsurp the name and office of a bishop If you be tel vs who gaue you Orders The institution of a Priest was neuer yet but in the power of a Bishop Bishops haue alwayes after the Apostles tyme according to the Ecclesiastical Canons ben consecrated by three other Bishops with the consent of the Metropolitane and confirmation of the B. of Rome Leaft out by M. Ievvel Thus Vnitie hath hitherto ben kept thus Schismes haue ben stayd And this S. Cyprian calleth legitimam ordinationem For lacke of which he denyed Nouatian to be a bishop or to haue any autoritie or power in the Church Hereto neither you nor your felowes who haue vnlaufully inuaded the administration of the Sacramentes can make any iust and right answer I am sure Athanas in Apologia 2. What do not you remember what iudgement Athanasius and the Bishops of Egypte Thebais Lybia and Pentapoli were of concerning Ischyras the Arian And why may not al good Catholique men iudge the like of you Ischyras and M Iuel compared together Macarius a Priest of Athanasius as it was layd to his charge by his accusers pulled Ischyras from the aulter as he was at Masse ouerthrewe the holy table brake the chalice The matter brought to iudgement Athanasius and those bishoppes both denied the fact and also though it were graunted yet defended the same as wel done because Ischyras was not a lauful minister of the Church And why so Because he was not lawfully made Priest nor with churchly laying on of handes consecrated Leaft out by M. Ievvel Colluthus HuÌ„c presbyteri Diaconi Mareotici vocant noÌ„ verum sed imaginarium episcopum Epist. ad Curiosum Phylagrium Apolog. 2. apud AthanasiuÌ„ For proufe thereof they alleaged that neither he was of the number of those whom Alexander bishop of Alexandria before Athanasius receiued into the Church made Priestes by Meletius the heretique neither that he was by the sayd Alexander created Then how is Ischyras a priest say they or of whom hath he receiued his orders Hath he receiued them of Colluthus For this shift onely remaineth Colluthus was an Arian who bare him selfe for a bishop and gaue Orders being but a priest Now Colluthus say they in their reply could not make him a priest for that he died in degree of priesthod himselfe and neuer was consecrated bishop and that al imposition of handes or geuing of orders was compted of no force and that al they whom he had consecrated were brought downe againe to the order of the laitie and vnder the name and in order of lay men receiued the coÌ„munion Hereof they conclude that Ischyras could be no priest And therefore it was denied that there was the mysterie of the body and bloude of our Lorde VVhat may be iudged of the nevv communion By which example besides other points we are taught what to iudge of your pretensed Communion Againe what say you to Epiphanius who writeth against one Zacchaeus of his tyme for that being but a laye man with wicked presumption tooke vpon him to handle the holy mysteries and rashly to do the office of a Priest CoÌ„tra haereses lib. 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Least out by M. Ievvel Likewise where he findeth great fault with two other of which the one dwelt at a monasterie in the wildernes of Egypt the other at Sinaeum for that they feared not to execute the thinges that belong to Bishops not hauing receiued the imposition of handes The doiÌ„g
of a bishops office by one that is not a bishop that perteineth to the consecration of a Bishop And wil you vnderstand what Epiphanius iudged of that wicked disorder He acknowledgeth it to be the part of men that of a certaine presumption of minds violently and besides all truth play the rash and dissolute wantons VVhat Epiphanius iudgeth of it For so the Greeke signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thus they be neither Priestes nor Deacons which be not consecrated laufully according to the order vsed in the Church that is to wit by bishops laufully consecrated but either by the people or the lay magistrate as it is in some places where this doctrine is professed or by monkes and friers Apostates or by excommunicate priestes hauing no bishoply power In Dialogo contra Luciferia nos Hereof S. Hierome saith notably Hilarius cùm Diaconus de Ecclesia recesserit c. Hilary forasmuch as he weÌ„t from the Church being a Deacon and is only as he thinketh the multitude of the world can neither consecrate the Sacrament of the aulter being without Bisshop and Priestes nor deliuer Baptisme without the Eucharist And where as now the man is dead with the man also the Sect is ended because being a Deacon he could not consecrate any clercke that should remaine after him And Church is there none which hath not a Priest SacerdoteÌ„ But letting go these fewe of litle regard that to them selues be both lay and Bisshops listen what is to be thought of the Church Thus S. Hierome there In whom leauing other thinges I note that if there be no Church where is no Priest where is your Church like to become after that our Apostates that now be fled froÌ„ vs to you shal be departed this life Leaft out by M. Ievvel By S. Hierome the English â—hurch shal be no Churche at al. And yet being with you as they be your Church is already in such state as S. Hierome reporteth that is no Churche at al howe so euer ye set foorth your newe gospel vnder the name of the Church of England Bucer being once charged to geue accompt of his vocation had no other shifte but to acknowledge for defence of his ministerie that he had taken Orders of a bishop after the rite and maner of the Catholike Church Luthers aduise touching Muncers vocation Sleidan recordeth that Luther himselfe wrote to the senate of Mulhusen concerning Muncer the preacher of the Anabaptistes who stirred the common people of Germanie to rise against their nobilitie that the senate should do wel to demaund of Muncer who committed to him the office of teaching and who had called him thereto And if he would name God for his authour that then they should require him to proue his vocation by some euident signe or miracle If he could not do that then he aduised them to put him awaye For this is the wont of God said he when so euer he willeth the accustomed forme and ordinarie maner to be changed to declare his wil by some signe * Of vvhat maner is the vocation of our super intendetâ— Therefore this being true it remaineth M. Iewel you tel vs whether your vocation be ordinarie or extraordinarie If it be ordinarie shewe vs the letters of your Orders At lest shewe vs that you haue receiued power to do the office you presume to exercise by due order of laying on of handes and consecration But order and consecration you haue not For who coulde geue that to you of al these newe ministers how so euer els you cal them whiche he hath not him selfe If it be extraordinarie as al that ye haue done hytherto is besides al good order shewe vs some signe or miracle If you faile in al these why ought not you to be put awaie * The Defenders haue nothing to say for defence of their vocatioÌ„ If you can shew no signe or miracle as your vertue promiseth vs none bring vs forth some example of your extraordinarie vocation out of the Stories of Christes Church that hath folowed the Apostles If you be destitute also thereof at lest shewe vs what prophete in the olde Testamente euer was heard extraordinarily without signe or miracle or testimonie of God * Leaft out by M. Ievvel Finally what can you answer to that Lib. 1. Epist 6. whiche may be obiected to you out of S. Cyprians epistle to Magnus touching Nouatian It was at those dayes a question whether Nouatian baptized and offered specially where as he vsed the forme manner and ceremonies of the Churche Cyprian denieth it Eusebius Ecclesiast Hist li. 6. cap. 43. in Graec. For he can not saith he be compted a Bisshop who setting at nought the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles nemini succedens à seipso ordinatus est succeding no man is ordeined bisshoppe of him selfe For by no meanes may one haue or holde a Churche that is not ordeined in the Churche Leaft out by M. Ievvel M. Ievvel and the rest of his companions be no bishops but vsurpers of an vndue office and ministerie I leaue here to recite the rest of that Epistle perteining to this point and al against you for that it were to long Thus it is euident for as muche as you can neither prooue your doctrine by continual Succession of Priestes nor referre your Imposition of handes to any Apostle or Apostolike Bishoppe nor shewe your Vocation to be ordinarie for lacke of lauful ordination and consecration nor extraordinarie for lacke of Gods testimonie and approbation by signe or miracle or example of the olde or newe Testament that you are not laufully called to the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes that you are not duely and orderly preferred to the Ministerie whiche you exercise that you go not being called that you runne not being sent Therefore we may iustly say that ye haue thrust your selfes into that Ministerie at your owne pleasure and lyst For though the Prince haue thus promoted you yet be ye presumers and thrusters in of your selues Wel landes and manours the Prince may geue you Priesthod and Bishophod the Prince can not geue you Ierem. 23. This being so we doo you no wrong as ye complaine in telling you and declaring to the world that touching the exercise of your Ministerie ye do nothing orderly or comely but al thinges troublesomly and without order Onlesse ye meane such order and comelines as theeues obserue among them selues in the distribution of their robberies Lastly if ye allowe not euery man yea and euery woman to be a Priest why driue ye not some of your felowes to recant that so haue preached why allow ye the bookes of your newe Euangelistes that so haue writen Leaft out by M. Ievvel And whether ye admitte al sortes of the common people to be your Ministers of the worde to teache the people and vnreuerently to handle the holy Scriptures or no our
doctrine is to be adiudged to come of lying as that which sauoureth against the truth of the Churches of the Apostles of Christ and of God Our doctrine proued to be true by the Successiō of the Apostolique Churche Now concerning our Churches it is euident that we agree with the original and mother Churches which were planted by the Apostles For we agree in faith with the Churche of Rome which was planted by the most blessed Apostles S. Peter and S. Paule and alwaies kepte her Succession til this present daie and therefore our doctrine is true But you agree in faith with no Churche at al now extant in the worlde which came from the Apostles and therefore your doctrine by the rule of Tertullian is false and lying Whiles he then disputed with Heretikes as we doo now with you he said either these Heretikes confesse that they beganne since the Apostles time and they are false teachers or if any of them dare intrude them selues into the Apostles age Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum then let them bring forth the beginninges or shew the original euidences of their Churches let them vnfold the order of their Bishops so ronning along from the beginning by Succession that he who is the first Bishop had for his founder and predecessour one of the Apostles or of the Apostolike men who continued til the ende with the Apostles in the same faith Hoc enim modo Ecclesiae Apostolicae census suos deferunt For by this way the Apostolike churches do shew forth along their publike registers At length hauing brought forth the examples of the Churche of Smyrna and of the Churche of Rome and of other like Churches he concludeth thus confidenly Consingant tale aliquid Haeretic◠let the Heretiques feine some suche matter He bad them feme For he wel knewe in truth they coulde shew no suche Succession I haue then shewed that Tertullian spake not of Heretikes who lacked the pretense of Gods worde M. Ievvels Doctrine is proued by Tertulliā erroneus for lacke of Succession proued but of them who had no Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne age And one such Succession of Bishoppes in any one Church of al the worlde seing M. Iewel can not bring forth it remaineth that he is an Heretike and that his Doctrine is erroneus false and heretical Iewel Tertullian saith not vnto vs but vnto you and suche as you be let them shevv forth the Originals of their Churches Harding Is that al he saith M. Iewel Why went you not forth to the next wordes The Scrolles or rolles of Bishops names Let them vnfold the order of their Bishoppes He calleth it vnfolding bicause the Bishoppes names were vsed to be kept and written in order in long Rolles the whiche Rolles must be vnfolded when they are to be read He meant not therefore such Originals M. Iewel as you imagine to wit particular examples of this or that facte but he meant the Original copies or instrumentes and euidences of founding and planting of their Churche who it was that preached the Faith first vnto them and who was their first Bishop who the second who the third and so forth vntil the present time Iewel Euen so vve say vnto you shevv vs the Originals of your doctrine Harding You say not euen right so as Tertullian said For he called not for the Originals of Doctrine but of Churches Originals of Churches For by the Churches the Doctrine is knowen to be good or euil to be allowable or reproueable Iewel Shevv vs any one of the Apostles of Christe or of the learned Catholike Doctours of the Churche that euer said your priuate Masse Shevv one at the lest either Greeke or Latine Harding It was not that which Tertullian required He demaunded only for the Originals of Churches and for the order and Succession of Bishops But for that you durst not cal knowing that we could shew how S. Augustine conuerted vs being sent into England from S. Gregorie the Pope whiche Pope S. Gregorie succeded S. Peter in his Chaier Thus we can shew the Originals of our Churches bringing them from the Catholike Bishops whiche are yet aliue M. Ievvslyly diuerteth from the present matter to an other mater impertinent touching priuate Masse vpward vntil S. Peter But you are fallen away from the matter of Succession which only Tertullian presseth and are now come to demaunde of a particular facte whether any Apostle or olde Father euer said priuat Masse or no. I say al of them might haue said priuate Masse and that I proue by Tertullians reason and rule bicause the vse of saying priuate Masse came to vs time out of minde by Succession without any change or innouation noted therin by any storie or Chronicle And yet was ther neuer any strange or new thing receiued and vsed in the Churche but that great trouble came thereof as now there doth of your changing of Religion the whiche trouble of Churches and common Weales is at no time omitted in the stories of that age wherein it falleth But now seing the vse of saying priuat Masse came so peaseably to vs from hand to hand and no first author thereof can be shewed it is out of al controuersie that it was euer accompted a Godly and a lawful thing But what neede I now to repeate that I haue already written in that argument Answer that parte of my booke better to the purpose then yet ye haue donne whiche treateth of that point where many plaine euidences be brought forth of Sole Receiuing Sole Receiuing in the Primitiue Churche In my ansvvere Art 1. and likevvise in my first Reioindre Aug. Epi. 165. whiche Sole Receiuing is the onely thing for whiche you reproue priuate Masse as you cal it It is cleare that S. Chrysostom and certaine others said Masse and yet had no man to receiue with them as I haue other where declared I thinke not good now to fal into that Disputation againe and therefore here I wil cal you home to the present Argument of Succession Iewel Pag. 128. 129. S. Augustine saith of so many Bishops of Rome there could not one be found that had benne a Donatiste Euen so in like sorte say vve to you of al the same Bishops of Rome there can not be one found that euer agreed vvith M. Harding in saying Masse Or if there vvere any such shevv his name vvith other Circumstances vvhen and vvhere and vvho vvere vvitnesses of the doing Shevv vs your Originals M. Harding Confesse the Truth deceiue vs no longer It is a nevv deuise ye haue it only of your selues and not by Succession from the Apostles Harding You pretend to reason like S. Augustine as though he had reasoned vpon a particular facte and not vpon the Doctrine Euen so in like sorte say you and it is not euen so nor in like sorte S. Augustine concluded that the Donatistes were Heretikes S. Augustines
De potestate Apostolic one of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue told you thus In the Churche one Bisshop is sufficient to consecrate another And it is nothing els but for the solemnitie of the matter that the Church hath deuised that three Bisshops should ioyne togeather Harding Surely you tooke great paines to finde out sumwhat for your excuse when you forsooke the example of the Apostles and of the auncient Councelles and went from S. Peter the Apostle to Peter de Palude for your Defence And yet he saith nothing that maketh against vs. For he saith not that any Catholike Bisshop was euer consecrated of lesse then three but that one sufficeth to consecrate a Bishop I meant that in al solemne consecrations it hath ben so and Petrus de Palude denieth it not but he saith one sufficeth and meaneth that in a case of extremitie one bishop alone may consecrate an other and the same I denie not But consider for what purpose I spake it My talke was directed to you M. Iewel and your fellowes who after fifteen hundred yeres in a realme that hath not lacked Christian pastours and bishops in it for the space of these thirteen hundred yeres togeather ought not now to pretend any necessitie as though three Bishops either in that countrie or in the next could not be founde who might solemnize your Ordering and Consecration Iewel Pag. 130. Likevvise Iohannes Maior an other of your ovvne Doctours vvould haue said vnto you Quis ordinauit Petrum c. VVho ordered Peter In 4. sentent dist 24. q. 3. and made him a bishop They can not shewe me three Bisshops that ordered him Therefore I say that a bisshop be ordered of other three Bisshops it is an ordināce made by man For Paule when he ordered Titus and Timotheus he sought not about for other two Bisshops Harding See now againe how farre this man is gonne from the Doctours of the first six hundred yeres If you wil stand to their iudgement M. Iewel whom you allege M. Ievvel allegeth the Schoolemenne vvho are vvel knovven to be altogether contrarie to him they cōdemne you for an Heretike and a Schismatike bicause you haue forsaken that Doctrine of faith and that holy fellowship wherein they liued and died They offered the external sacrifice of the Churche and taught it to be offered for the liue and dead in Christe who died for both and least vs his owne body in a Sacrament to be made and consecrate by the priestes of the new testament for the application of Christes merites to euery particular faithful man and for the whole body of the Churche Seing you say this is Idolatrie why seeke you for helpe at their handes who haue taught vs this doctrine for which you tel vs they be in hel Againe admit it be an ordinance of man that a bishop should be consecrate of three other bishops Is it therefore in your power to breake euery ordinance of man It was the ordinance of men that ye should paye this or that tribute vnto your prince May ye therefore cease to paie it at your pleasure That which man ordeined By what man may the ordinance of man be changed may in deede be altered by an other man but he must then be of the same power that he was of who ordeined it The Apostles ordeined that a Bishop be consecrate of three An Apostle therefore is not bound to that ordinance But are you and your brethren Apostles that ye take vpon you to alter the Apostolike ordinances If ye were but the scholars of the Apostles ye would keepe their Successions and follow their steppes But now whereas they kepte Christian men in one bonde of peace yee skatter the flocke into so many sectes as there are proude and vaineglorious men emong you Iewel 130. VVhereas it farther pleaseth you to cal for my letters of Orders and to demaunde of me as by some authoritie vvhether I be a Priest or no vvhat handes vvere laid ouer me and by vvhat order I vvas made I ansvver you I am a Priest made long sithens by the same Order and ordinance and I thinke also by the same man and the same handes that you M. Harding vvere made Priest by in the late time of that most vertuous prince King Edvvard the sixth Therefore you can not vvel doubt of my Priesthoode vvithout like doubting of your ovvne Harding Neither by the same Ordinance M. Iewel nor by the same man nor by the same handes nor in the time of the same late King How be it you tel not halfe my tale I laid for my foundation out of S. Hierome these wordes Dialog contra Luciferianos Ecclesia non est quando non habet Sacerdotem Church is there none which hath not a Priest or Bishop and such a Priest he there describeth as may consecrate the Sacrament of the Aulter that is to say that may offer External Sacrifice and such a Bishop he describeth who may order priestes For Sacerdos as you know doth signifie bothe a Priest and Bishoppe Sacerdos Bishop or Priest Nowe S. Hierome there disputed against Hilarius a Deacon whom being alone in his newe secte and not hable to offer Sacrifice nor to make Priestes it behoued needes to leaue that his congregation without a Priest I aske you then as wel of your bishopply vocation and of your Sending as of your Priesthoode Geue me leaue I praie you here to put you in minde of my wordes once againe Thus I said Confut. fol. 57. b. Hard questions proponed to M. Ievvel and yet you haue not answered me Therefore to goe from your Succession which ye can not proue and to come to your Vocation how say you Sir You beare your selfe as though you were a Bishop of Sarisburie But how can you prooue your Vocation By what authoritie vsurpe you the administration of Doctrine and Sacramentes What can you allege for the right and proufe of your Ministerie Who hath called you Who hath laid handes on you By what example hath he donne it How and by whom are you consecrated Who hath sent you Who hath committed to you the office you take vppon you Be you a Prieste or be you not If you be not howe dare you vsurpe the name and office of a Bisshoppe If you be tel vs who gaue you Orders The institution of a Prieste was neuer yet but in the power of a Bisshoppe Bisshoppes haue alwaies after the Apostles tyme according to the Ecclesiastical Canons benne consecrated by three other Bisshops with the consent of the Metropolitane Cut of by M. Ievvel and Confirmation of the B. of Rome * Thus vnitie hath hitherto benne kepte thus schismes haue benne staied And this S. Cyprian calleth Legitimam Ordinationem Cyprian lib. 1. epistol 6. Lawful Ordering For lacke of whiche he denied Nouatus to be a Bishop or to haue any auctoritie or power in the Churche Hereto neither you nor your fellowes
accusations when there are two witnesses It is his part only to admit accusations against Priestes who is the iudge of Priestes and euery Iudge is aboue him ouer whom he sitteth in iudgement Therefore a Bishop by Gods lawe is aboue a priest whose iudge he is allowed to be Epiphanius har 75. Which argument Epiphanius bringeth against Aerius the heretike who said as now M. Iewel saith that Priestes and Bishops were equal Hieron ad EuagriuÌ„ Againe S. Hierome who defended that the names of Bishops and of Priestes were confounded in the beginning and that the order of priesthod in them was one both which thinges are true yet he made an euident difference betwen the power of them graunting that a Priest could doo al that a Bishop can Hieronymus aduersus Luciferianos excepta ordinatione the ordering or geuing of holy orders excepted In that point then he beleued a Bishop to be aboue a Priest Now say I such a Bishop as by Gods lawe is aboue a Priest as who may only make Priestes and geue them power to consecrate and in Christes person to make and offer vnto God his body and bloud such a Bishop or such a Priest you haue not in al your Church vnlesse they be Apostates and Renegates who being once made priestes with vs haue now denied the faith wherein they were Christened and are runne out of the Church vnto your false Congregations and scattered troupes Iewel Neiter doth the Church of England this daye depende of them vvhom you so often cal Apostates as if our Church vvere no Churche vvithout them Harding S. Hierome said no Priest no Church Aduersus Lucifer Epistola ad Heliodorum and by a priest he meant him that maketh Christes body with hâ—â— holy mouth and offereth the same For these are his own wordes but such a priest is made only of a Bishop who is by Gods law aboue him And such Priestes haue you none besides Apostates Therfore your Church either is none or dependeth of Apostates and Renegates Iewel Pag. 131. They are no Apostates M. Harding that is rather your ovvne name and of good right belongeth vnto you Harding He is an Apostata who forsaketh the good profession VVho are Apostates which he once had But the profession either of Monkes or of the Catholikes whom you cal Papistes is good and godly For concerning Monkes they are the men who after the counsel of our Sauiour Matt. 19. professe to geue awaie their goodes to the pore or forsake the hope of goodes whiche may be had in the world and follow Christe gelding them selues or making them selues Eunuches for the kingdom of heauen This must needes be a good profession And as for the Catholikes they are the onely true members of Christes Church and none other can be Catholiques beside those whom you cal Papistes Bicause none others haue benne alwaies in al places and al times sith Christes Ascension And we haue ben so as our predecessours and pastours in the See of Rome with al other pastours agreeing therewith doo euidently shew euen to the eye Therfore who so haue forsaken their profession and rule as Renegate monkes and Friers haue or our Churâ—h as those priestes haue who being rightly ordered in the catholique Churche communicate now with you they are Apostates and Renegates And wheras you say that to be my name and of good right to belong vnto me there can be no iuste cause to cal me an Apostata except it be for departing from you But ye are al Apostates your selues For it can be named but of what Catholike felowship ye are departed whom ye leafte behind you al Italie Fraunce and Spaine c. who went out with you a peece of Germanie Suitzerland England and Scotland and after whom ye went some after Luther some after Zuinglius some after Caluin Therefore ye are al Apostates Now when I departed from you with whom notwithstanding I neuer remained wholly I departed from Apostates and came to that fellowship which neuer forsooke their former faith nor went out nor leaft any behind them who might complaine of their departure nor had any peculiar Captaines but onely the Apostles and their Successours that folowed them lineally from age to age Therefore the name of Apostata belongeth not to me but to you and to your felowes If the Reader say that we doo but sclaunder one the other let him consider the reason and not the wordes An Apostata is one The Protestantes be Apostates who faileth and depareth from some certaine lawful head We departe from none but kepe God Christ and his Ministerial headdes Bishops Priestes Kinges and Magistrates But the Protestantes haue denied al the Bishops aliue in the whole earth who liued before and in Luthers time They haue and doo rebel in al countries for the pretence of Religion And so they forsake both the obedience of spiritual and temporal gouernours therefore they are by al meanes Apostates Iewel Pag. 131. They are for a great part learned and graue and godly men and are much ashamed to see your solies Harding There is no learning against faith What learning cal you it when a man learneth to denie this to be Christes body which he said to be his body Or to holde Matt. 26. that the Church is sometimes hid Matt. 5. which Christ said to be a Citie built vpon a hil that can not be hid What grauitie is this to be moued and caried out of the Church and to be tossed hither and thither with euery puffe of new doctrine Nowe to be a Hussite then a Lutheran now a Brentian afterward a Zuinglian and last of al a Caluinist Yea what grauitie is it to defende that al these sectes may be saued seing they teâ—â—â— contradictorie doctrine and wil come to no agreement Concerning our folies which you say they see they are folies to worldlynges and to men wise in their owne eyes as a man to shut vp him selfe in a Cloister to watch to fast to praye to liue chaste to bewaile his sinnes to geue awaye al his goods for Gods sake to honour Gods frendes with a due reuerence and worship to beleue Christ rather then our eyes and to trust the wit of our Predecessours rather then our owne These are in deede our folies in 〈…〉 we glorie through Gods grace leauing the pride oâ—â—oâ—… new traÌ„slations of the Scriptures your Sectes and wordly wisedom the breaking of vowes the liuing in incest and open filthinesse with impudent maintenance therof to your great learning grauitie holinesse and wisedom Iewel Pag. 131. NotvvithstaÌ„ding if there vvere not one neither of them nor of vs leaft aliue yet vvould not therfore the vvhole Church of EnglaÌ„d flee to Louain Harding Who euer said that the whole Church of England must flee or was fled to Louaine You kepe some parte of it fast inough from fleeing to Louaine or any whither els if the Tower the Fleete the Marshalsea the
from his Prince the child from his father and the wife from her husband What is it then wherein your Predecessours if they had now liued and had seene it would not haue benne so wilful as we are They should haue seene in you Diuisions sectes factions pride wantonesse fleshly libertie crueltie murders treasons rebellions Churche robbinges and to be short al impietie and contempte of God Pride accompained with malice couetise and lecherie was the foundation A foule mouthed Frier as euer liued on the earth and a Nūne incestuously coupled together was the building that rose vp of your doctrine which to this daie goeth forward with like increase And yet if your Predecessours had seene that which we see they would forsooth haue ben astonned to see the heauenly fruites which these men bring foorth Iewel To be short vve succede the bisshops that haue ben before our dayes vve are elected consecrated confirmed and admitted as they vvere Harding Here is no lye at al. That I may speake of no other difference the Bishops whom you succeede were al confirmed by the bishop of Rome and so is none of you Iewel .. If they vvere deceiued in any thing vve succede them in the place but not in errour Harding By their place is meant specially their doctrine and beleefe which seing you haue not you are not their successour no more then Paulus Samosatenus the heretique was the Successour in S. Peters chaire in Antioche no more then Gregorius the Arian was S. Markes successour in Alexandria no more then al the Bisshops of Christendome are to be accompted the successours of the Heathnish Priestes which in the same Cities before worshipped Idols It is the Doctrine and place together which maketh the Succession and not the walles of the towne Churche or house alone Iewel They vvere our Predecessours but not the rules and standardes of our faith Harding As long as they remained in that vnitie of Doctrine which they receiued of the Apostles or of the Apostolike Churches as Tertullian doth wel shew so long they are presidentes and their continual Succession is a good rule and standard of our faith For they are pillers of the Church the Successours of the Apostles Luc. 10. whom he that heareth heareth Christ Now when those that breake the Vnitie which was in the Church before come to sit in any bishops Chaire they in deede are no presidentes no rules nor standardes of our Faith bicause the Apostle biddeth vs obserue and beware of them 2. Thess 3. that walke inordinatly and make dissensions For the Church of God hath no suche custome to striue 1. Cor. 11. and to resiste at once al the Bishops of the whole Church as Martin Luther did Iewel 131. Or rather to set apart al comparison of persons the doctrine of Christ this day M. Harding succedeth your doctrine as the daye succedeth the night as the light succedeth darknesse and as the truth succedeth errour Harding VVhat is the daie vvhat is the night in M. Ievvelles iudgement That is to say your doinges and proceedinges are the daye the light and the truth but the Catholique faith whiche we teache and al our predecessours in al the worlde haue euer taught is the night the darkenesse and errour But sir if your doctrine be daye or light and ours night or darkenesse how chaunceth it that our doctrine was euer openly seene in the whole worlde from the Apostles time vnto these daies in so many Bishoppes throughout al nations teaching al one thing and yours was not sene by your owne confession for nine hundred yeres together This was a long night pardy M. Iewel Is it the nature of the light not to be seene Who sawe not our Altars our external Priestes and our Sacrifice of the body and bloud of Christ in the whole world from East to Weast Malac. 1. as Malachias prophecied and the euent shewed But your no Aulters your no external Priestes and your no sacrificing of Christes body briefly the Imaginatiue face of your Negatiue Religion or rather of your no Religion who could see before that now of late ye pulled downe our Aulters to shewe howe ye had no Aulters and before violently ye bannished our Priestes and draue them out of their Churches to shewe howe ye had no Priestes and denied Christes Real Presence to shew how ye had no Sacrifice Our Munkes and Friers from S. Ihon Baptistes dayes and from the tyme of those that liued a very holy life in Egypte frō the time of S. Marke the Euangeliste vnto the time of S. Basil in the East of S. Augustine S. Benedicte S. Frauncis and S. Dominike in the Weast had replenished Christendom with Cloisters and Monasteries to those our Monkes I say al the worlde beareth witnesse But your no monkes Renegates and Apostates liued in Turkie or in Hel for in the landes of Christendom no such doctrine shined none suche was heard of whiche should auouche that it is not lawful by Gods grace to make a vowe that a man wil renounce the riches and pleasures of the worlde and liue continently vnder the obedience of a spiritual Father If your doctrine be the light and the daye howe commeth it to passe that not so muche as one Churche or chappel in the whole earth can be named where before these fiftie yeres it was vnlawful to occupie holy Chrisme in bishopping of childerne or to saye Masse or to teache the seuen Sacramentes to praie for the dead to celebrate the Churche Seruice in the Latine tongue to desire the Apostles Martyrs and the other Saintes to praie for vs al which thinges now you accompt for vnlawful Can the light be so darkened that it should be vnknowen vnto you whether ye had any auncestours at al or no We can if neede were set forth a rolle of our Pastours and Bishops from this daye vpward vnto S. Peters time in such sort as you shal name no one time of whiche we are not hable to saye vnto you these many prelates and Pastours were knowen to preache Christes gospel at once in diuers nations Marcke M. Iewel what I saye to you and consider of it wel For herein your vtter Confusion appeareth that ye are not hable to bring the continuance of your doctrine vp vnto S. Peters time without interruption albeit you should be bounde to name for euery fiftie yeres in Order but one man in the whole worlde at once Thinke of it with al your witte and geue me an instance There are since Christes time fifteen hūdred yeres passed Geue me for euery hundred yeres two Catholike men one liuing after the other whom you may iustifie to haue ben of your faith holding that doctrine whiche you holde and so geue me in al but thirtye menne liuing and knowen to haue lyued eche of them about fiftie yeres one after the other and for my part I wil release you of your bond of subscription Such a lightsome Churche ye haue that
ye must go into the pit of Hel to fetch out Aêrius Pelagius Vigilantius Iouinian Heluidius Manichaeus and such others of condemned memorie to geue light vnto your Churche or els you can bring foorth none at al. For whereas al the Greekes Epiphan Haeres 75 as it may appeare by Epiphanius and al the Latines as it may appeare by S. Augustine condemned him for an heretike who said the prayers of the liue could not helpe the dead what catholike is it possible to bring foorth for the yere of our Lorde three hundred and fiftie or foure hundred who taught as ye now teache that it is not lawful nor profitable to praye for the dead Wel ye are not the light nor the daye Is your doctrine at the least the truth Nay that is the truth which is also the light For the true doctrine is taught in that Church which is built vpon an hil and can not be hid The truth is vniforme Math. 5. but emong you Luther and Zuinglius Caluine and Westphalus Bullinger and Brentius Illyricus and Beza and sundrie other couples and partes agree so wel that a man may easily know them to be false Prophetes For whereas they al disagree yet they are al without that Churche where vnitie is preserued in the perpetual Succession of many Bishops alwaies agreeing in one saith Therefore your doctrine is neither the light nor the daye nor the truth but darkenesse but night but errour Iewel 131. Novv for as much as ye haue thought it so good to examine the petite degree of Bishops of Sarisburie I trust you vvil not thinke it il if I a litle touch the lâ—ke in the Bishops of Rome that vve may thereby the better be hable to see some of the branches of your Succession Harding In dede they of whom you speake are but some of the branches of our Succession For you touch of two hundred and thirtye Bishops of Rome not thirteene and yet our Succession consisteth also of al the Bishops in Italie Spaine Fraunce Germanie Sicilie Polonia Hungarie Denmarke Suethen and England euen til king Henrie the eightes time But go too on Gods name touche whom you can I am wel assured you wil plaie the Spider to espie if any poison can be found any where Let vs see with what truth and honestie you blase their faultes The worst that can be said of al the Popes touching doctrine by the Protestantes is here gathered together and laid forth by M. Iewel and the same is truly answered Iewel Pag. 131. Therefore shortly to say you knovv that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie Harding Of S. Marcellinus Martyr and Pope I know that after his Idolatrie whereto he yeelded for feare of death he repented and shed his bloud for Christe and dyed a glorious Martyr euen as S. Paule after that he had persecuted the Churche through grace repented and died for Christes name Who ought now to be more ashamed of S. Marcellinus you that chalenge him for an Idolatour or I that chalenge him for a Martyr The Idolatrie you speake of is gone and pardoned the Martyrdome whereof I speake is euerlastingly crowned in heauen The ende M. Iewel trieth al whereof you should haue taken your iudgement And yet this very Idolatoure bicause he was S. Peters Successour and sate in the first See was in case for the roume he occupied to be iudged of no man in the earth as tâ—e Councel of three hundred and thirtie Bishoppes assembled at Sinuessa pronounced aboue twelue hundred yeres past Tom 1. Concil Primasedes non iudicabitur à quoquaÌ„ The first seate shal not be iudged of any man What haue you wonne now by this example but that you do the world to vnderstand what malicious stomake ye beare against the Popes of Rome whose faultes ye are right glad to espie and blase abroade although they repented of them Verely it would haue becomme a sonne of the Churche to conceele suche actes of frailtie and not to see suche spottes that were with so abundant founteines of teares cleane washed awaie and with the bloude of so glorious Martyrdom quite blotted out Iewel 131. Pope Syluester the secoÌ„d vvas a Coniurer and gaue himselfe vvhole body and soule to the Deuil and by the Deuilles procurement vvas made Pope Harding That Syluester the second came to be Pope malis artibus by euil meanes it is not so cleare a matter as you make it Platina the chiefe author we haue for credite of that Storie vttereth it doubtefully by his Parenthesis vt aiunt as they saie Whereby he geueth vs to vnderstand that he was not hable to auouche it for a certaine truthe but referreth him selfe to the vulgare rumour of the people which most commonly bruteth abroad moe lies and vanities then truthes and certainties How beit Platina Platinae in vitis PontificuÌ„ Pope Syluester 2. his repentance at the ende who tolde you al this added also Poenitentia motus errorem suum coram populo fassus c. being moued with repentance and confessing his errour before the people he first exhorted them al that ambition and the deuilles deceites laide aside they should liue wel And afterward his body was miraculously drawen by horses to the chiefe Church of Rome and there was buried If you beleue the one you must beleue the other sithence it is but one Storie whereof you told the first parte and I the last Whereupon I attribute so much to that holy Succession that I doubte not as euil a man as he once was but God delte the more mercifully with him for his good predecessours sakes who I doubte not prayed for him that he might die penitently and be a saued soule Iewel 131. Pope Zosimus for ambition and claime of gouernment corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding You say it Pope Zosimus sclaundered by M. Ievv but neuer did any honest man say it from the beginning of the worlde til this time neither was the same yet euer proued For albeit he alleged such wordes of a certaine Canon as the other copies had not yet did no man lay to his charge that he had corrupted the CouÌ„cel For he alleged that which he found in his own copies I say to you M. Iewel there is nothing shewed by this your tale but that you are a man of il dispositioÌ„ who gladly reporte euil and besides that you finde reported of others inuent your selfe that which vtterly is false to diminish the estimation of a holy man that died eleueÌ„ hundred yeres past Marke the point I say if it be said of any man that euer wrote in the olde time that Pope Zosimus corrupted the Councel of Nice then you or your fellowes did not feine it but if no man said it but bawdy Bale or Illyricus and suche others the like then your part is with liers and sclaunderers and thereafter shal your iudgement be without you repente whiche God graunt you M. Stapleton in the
am ioyned in communion to the Chaire of Peter vpon that Rocke I knowe the Churche is builte Iewel Pope Adrian the fourth vvas vvoont to saye vve succede not Peter in feeding but Romulus in killing Harding Were it true you would haue named your authour Now your saying semeth to procede out of your owne Forge But what if it were true that Pope Adrian said so by waye of complaint This proueth that as some of his predecessours were euil men so alwaies God gaue his grace to some other Popes to disallowe their faultes and yet to continewe their Faith Doctrine and Succession Iewel Pag. 132. And to leane Dame Ioan the vvoman Pope vvith many others mee of like vertue and holinesse as hauing no pleasure in this rehersal Harding There was no such woman Pope and yet God knoweth you take stil great pleasure in the rehersal of a vaine dreame as you doo of many other false tales dreamed first by Martinus Polonus Iewel For as much as M. Harding began this matter vvith Sarisburie to ende it vvith the same Ioannes Sarisburiensis saith In Polya cratico in Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Church of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and Pharisees Harding The matter that I began here to treate of was not of Sarisburie but of your SuccessioÌ„ in Sarisburie for which notwithstanding the huge stuffe you bring you shewe your selfe to haue nothing to saie Touching Ioannes Sarisburiensis if it were so that Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Churche of Rome yet you should be damned for departing from them 3. Reg. 12. euen as Ieroboam was for departing from the Chaire of Moyses You are bound to communicate in Doctrine with the chiefe Chaier what soeuer they be that sit in it For Christe bad vs kepe that Matt. 23. which they commaunde Now as the Scribes and Pharisees sitting in the Chaire of Moyses did exactly kepe his Succession and witnessed the continuance of that Temple whereunto al the Iewes were bound So the Popes of Rome sitting in S. Peters Chaire do exactly mainteine his Succession and witnesse that to be the true Rocke and Churche whereunto al we are bound to be obedient as sheepe to the chiefe Pastour But sith you are desirous to end this matter begonne as you saye of Sarisburie with Sarisburie whereby you meane the auctoritie of Ioannes Saresburiensis therewith I am right wel contente For your parte that is to say against the Churche of Rome whose faith we professe whatsoeuer be the manners of some great persons in that Churche you allege Iohn of Sarisburie saying that Scribes and Pharisees sitte in the Churche of Rome True it is these wordes be in Iohn of Sarisburie in deede As for the Addition by Succession it is your owne it is not his But you must vnderstand they be not his owne wordes as spoken by him selfe but reported by him as wordes of the common people For being required of Pope Adrian the fourth who was an Englishman in familiar talke whereto for his learning and wisdome he was admitted to declare freely what was commoÌ„ly said abroade of the Pope and of the Churche of Rome among other thinges bruted abroade by waye of complaint specially against the Briberie and coueteousnes of great personages of that Churche he rehersed those wordes out of the Gospel Matt. 23. At the ende of his tale thus he concluded Iohannes Sarisburiensis in Polycratico de curialium nugis lib. 6. cap. â—4 signifiing whose tale he tolde Haec inquam Pater loquitur populus quandoquidem vis vt illius tibi sententias proferam These thinges Father the people speaketh for asmuch as you wil haue me to vtter vnto you what they saie Thus M. Iewel by testimonie of your Ihon of Sarisburie you proue nothing against our Doctrine of Succession but onely put vs in mynd what the common people in those dayes said of the gouernours of the Church If you would with as good sinceritie haue alleged on the other side what good he in the same booke and Chapter reporteth of them as with malice you reherse the euil you should haue laid forth a very good tale for them For immediatly after the wordes before rehersed thus it foloweth there Et tu inquit quid sentis And what is your opinion quod the Pope Thereto answereth Iohn of Sarisburie Angustiae inquam sunt vndique Vereor enim ne mendacij vel adulationis cortraham notam si solus populo contradixero Sin autem reatum vereor Maiestatis ne tanquam qui os in coelum posuerim crucem videar meruisse I am driuen quod he to straightes on euery side For I feare me I shal be noted for a Lyer or a flatterer if I alone be in my tale contrarie to the people Elles if I should saie as they saie I feare the gilte of treason least I seme to haue deserued the pounishment of death being as it were one that haue set my mouth vp against heauen This Preface semeth to conteine the wordes of one that intendeth to vtter the truth plainly and discretely And although there in deede he touche the Popes and the Romaine Clergies faultes freely yet on the other side he confesseth him selfe moued in coÌ„science to speake muche also in the praise of many These be his wordes Vnum tamen audacter conscientia teste profiteor Ibidem quia nusquà m honestiores Clericos vidi quà m in Ecclesia Romana aut qui magis auaritiam detestentur Albeit some be faulty yet one thing my conscience bearing me witnesse I dare be bolde to saie that no where I haue sene Clerkes of more honestie then in the Churche of Rome or that doo more deteste coueteousnes Of such good and vertuous Clerkes there he reckeneth vp some by name At length speaking of the number of the good in general he saith Plurium tanta modestia tanta grauitas est vt Fabriciâ— non inueniantur inferiores quem agnita salutis via modis omnibus antecedunt The modestie and grauitie of the more parte of them is so great that they are founde nothing inferior to Fabricius the noble Romaine of famous memorie for his vertue whom in respecte of that they acknowlege the waie of Saluation which he knew not being an Infidel by al meanes they passe and excelle Then folow these wordes immediatly which are most to our purpose and most worthy of consideration Quia verò instas vrges praecipis cùm certum sit quòd Spiritui sancto mentiri non licet fateor quia quod praecipis faciendum est si non sitis omnes operibus imitandi Nam qui a doctrina vestra dissentit aut haereticus aut schismaticus est For asmuche as you are instant vpon me and wil haue no nay and commaunde me to saie what I thinke sith it is certaine that I maie not lye vnto the holy Ghoste I graunte that what you commaunde vs to doo we must doo although ye be not
al to be folowed in your deedes For he that dissenteth from you Doctrine is either an Heretique or a Schismatique These wordes being wel and duely considered of I reporte me to thine indifferent iudgement discrete Reader what M. Iewel can seme to any wise man to haue wonne by Iohannes Sarisburiensis He accuseth the vices of the Romaine Clergie and of some Popes them selues We also accuse the same Their euil deedes be not to be folowed saith he We saie the same and praie God to amende them Scribes and Pharisees sate in the Church of Rome said the people in his time Were it true yet were they to be obeied touching doctrine and to be beleeued bicause they sate in the Chaire of Peter as Christ cōmaunded the Scribes and Pharisees of the Iewes to be obeied and thinges to be done and kepte whiche they said bicause they succeeded Moyses and sate in Moyses Chaire Howbeit what the people of Rome of Italie and of Germanie said of the Pope at that time it ought the lesse to be regarded bicause they spake vpon grudge conceiued against him the Romaines Platina in vita Hadriani ◠for that as Platina witnesseth he denied them their ernest request which was that they might liue freely vnder the gouernement of the Consulles and be exempted from their subiection to the Church the Italians and Germains for that they were muche vexed with warres by William the King of Sicilia and Frederike the firste Emperour from whiche vexation and troubles they saw they should haue benne deliuered if the Pope woulde haue benne content to suffer the Landes of the Churche to be inuaded and taken awaie by those Princes Euen so in these daies the Popes be the worse spoken of and finde the lesse good wil at many mennes handes in some partes of Christendome bicause they can not be induced to allow and confirme the possession of certaine ecclesiastical Landes which haue ben taken frō the Church by vnlawful meanes in such wise as they them selues would haue it allowed and confirmed To be short agree with vs M. Iewel vnto the doctrine which the Church of Rome teacheth where the Succession is certaine wherunto your owne doctor Ioannes Sarisburiensis leadeth you and we wil agree with you in reprouing the vices and faultes of that See the proufe of which for a great part of them for ought ye can shewe is vncertaine Would God ye would once consider how sclender and weake the Argumentes ye make against the catholique Faith are which alwaies ye deduce à moribus ad doctrinam that is from reproufe of manners to the reproufe of doctrine Iewel Pag. 132. This is M. Hardings holy succession though faith faile yet Succession must holde Harding Nay syr Succession doth holde that faith maye not faile For you haue not proued by any one example that faith did euer faile in the Churche of Rome In the Church I saye which consisteth of the Pope and of a college and an assemblie of graue Bishops and priestes professing them selues the faith and teaching it others In that open assemblie neuer was there false religiō decred or taught whereas so many heresies haue ben not fewer then a hundred and so many Archeheretikes of whom some haue ben in the other Patriarchal Sees but in Rome neuer was there an Archeheretike or any Pope who in Councel or Consistorie decreed or confirmed any heresie to be admitted To him that knoweth the ecclesiastical histories and conferreth the See of Rome with al other Churches it is such a miracle as therby God hath witnessed that Succession to be the Rocke of the faith In so much that the Bishops of the prouince of Tarracon in Spaine wrote thus vnto Pope Hilarius In Tom. 1. Concil epist 2. Ad fidem recurrimus Apostolico orè laudatam inde responsa quaerentes vnde nihil errore nihil praesumptione sed pontificali totum deliberatione praecipitur We resort vnto the faith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle seeking answers from thence whence nothing is commaunded by errour nothing by presumption but al by bishoply deliberation Iewel For vnto the succession God hath bound the holy Ghost Harding No but vnto the holy Ghost The holy Ghost causeth the Successiō to abide faithful God hath bound the Succession For he causeth the Succession to abide faithful bicause he causeth it to follow the inspiration of the holy Ghost that it may so be knowen for euer certainly true in the chiefe Apostles Chaire and in the fellowship abiding with him Christ saith he that heareth you Luc. 10. heareth me I am with you al dayes vntil the worldes ende Math. 28. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not Luc. 22. and thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethern feede my sheepe Ioan. 21. feede my lambes I wil beseeche my father Ioan. 14. and he shal geue you an other conforter that he remaine with you for euer 16. the spirite of truth he shal teach you al thinges and al truth The Romaine faith is preached in the whole worlde Roma 1. Iewel For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of England vve find not so many Idolatours Necromancers Heretikes Aduouterers Churcherobbers Periured persones Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as vve may easily finde in the Church of Rome therefore I trovve M. Harding saith vve haue no Succession vve are no Bishops vve haue no Church at al. Harding Your Church of England hath yet scant continued so many weekes as the Churche of Rome hath continued yeres But if it had passed ouer such times of persecution as Rome hath if it had ben so assaulted by al sortes of enemies as wel within as without as wel with prosperitie as aduersitie I trow your Church would haue had before this as many Idolatours Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterers and such others by you named as the Church of Rome hath had Bishops And certainely already it hath had mo sortes of Heretikes and that within these xx yeres then Rome hath had euen by your owne accompte euil men within these fiften hundred yeres Idolatrie annexed vnto Heresie For your beginning progresse and the whole profession of your life is nothing but heresie whereunto Idolatrie is euermore annexed For an heretike doth alwaies worship his owne conceit and phantasie for truth and whereas God is truth he worshippeth his phantasie for God which is Idolatrie If the pope committed any faulte by frailtie he defended it not as you mainteine in open pulpites the breache of laudable and godly vowes and the marriages of consecrated persons who haue absteined from marriage euer since the Apostles tyme whose marriages saith S. Hierome be not so much Aduouteries Aduersus Iouin li. 1. as Inceste But in the number of mo then two hundred Popes within fiften hundred yeres you haue falsely numbred sixe or seuen as Heretikes whereas you can not denie but there haue ben in the same
Succession aboue thirtie martyrs who died for Christes sake and as many confessours or moe whom al the good men in the Church haue accompted for holy and blessed men There was neuer general Coūcel holden by catholique Bishops which did not cōmunicate with that See and reioysed to be honoured and cōfirmed by it From S. Peters time to our age you cannot name any one daie or howre marcke wel M. Iewel you can not name one daie or howre I say in which any knowen Catholike Bishop in al the world did or might euer say with the approbation of good men I defie or I despise or I do not communicate with the Church of Rome how soeuer some one Pope might seeme not cōmendable yet the Church the faith the Doctrine the Succession was euer commended of al Catholike men To that See appealed and resorted as to the chiefe Light of the Church a Li. 3. c. 3. Irenaeus b De Praes Tertullian c Lib. 2. Optatus d Ad Siriciū ep 81 S. Ambrose e Ad. Damasum S. Hierome f Epi. 165. S. Augustine g De vocat gent. li. 2. c. 16. Prosper with al the fathers besides That See promoted the Gospel into the endes of the world into England Scotlād Ireland Denmarcke the low Countrie Germanie Polonia Lituania Prussia Liuonia Hungaria Bohemia Bulgaria and presently into the new founde Landes That See conquered al heresies cōfounded them and al their authours and mainteiners from Simon Magus to Martine Luther and Ihon Caluin who now beginneth to be brought very lowe and by Gods wil shal be brought lower shortely the follie and rebellious sprite which his Doctrine breedeth in his adherentes breaking out and shewing it selfe daily to the world more and more See M. Iewel you and your fellowes are as sore a fraid as euer was the gilty theefe of his iudge or the naughty boye of his maister But do I say trow you that ye therfore haue no Succession or that yee are no Bishops and haue no Church bicause in your Churches of England there are not to be founde so many Idolatours so many Necromācers so many Heretiques Aduouteres Churcherobbers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisees as many easily be founde in the Church of Rome Nay I trow M. Iewel you take your marke amisse For if I thought so as it pleaseth you to thinke of me I would not haue denied you neither Succession such as it is nor Bishops nor Churches or rather Congregations nor Ministers nor Minstrels neither for the better furnishing of them withal if these so many worthy qualities could worke so great an effecte For that I speake not here of Heretikes The clergie of these nevv cōgregatiōs vvherby Successiō is claimed and so cōsequently of Idolatours which faulte is common to you al what aduouterers whoremasters Incestuous persons Churche robbers Church breakers Periured persons Mankillers Renegates Abiured men Friers Apostates Lecherous Munkes Tapsters Hostlers Pedlers Tinckers Coblers Summoners Viceplayers Deuil Players Fellons Horse stealers Newgate menne briefly what vile and rascal rable want ye to fournish vp your Succession your bishoprikes your Synagogues and Ministring roumes withal Verely if this geare could make a Succession it shal soone be made good that ye haue also a Succession such as it is And ye neede not to mistrust any whit at al hauing so many of euery sorte as shal be more then inough for you Marie put these away out of your congregations I would cal them Churches were not that name to good for you I feare me you would leaue but a poore seely clergie behinde See hovv M. Ievvel vvil proue his so many Idolatours c. In the Church of Rome But how easy is it trow you M. Iewel to find so many Idolatours in the Churche of Rome as you beare vs in hande there may be founde Doth one poore facte of S. Marcellinus alone for the whiche he repented foorthwith and dyed a glorious Martyr of God make vp with you so many Idolatours I am wel assured that if you could haue found but one Pope more that had done the like you would not haue spared him your modestie is such but he should haue ben scored vp also to make vp your number of so many Idolatours Be it that Syluester was a Necromancer So many Necromācers and Hildebrand too who was of that crime as of many other vntruly sclaundered by his enemies that could not abide to heare of any correction for their enormous faultes and therefore spited that good Pope as you doo al the Popes wil yet those two make such a number of Necromancers in that See that it were a very easy matter to finde so many as you would gladly make your Readers beleeue there were Be it that Liberius Leo Coelestinus Honorius So many heretikes and Ihon the 22. holding priuate opinions without open maintenance of them had ben Heretikes as you most sclaunderously reporte them out of baudye Bale and braine-sicke Illyricus yet these fiue make not so great a number pardy that it should be an easy thing for you to finde so many Heretikes in the See of Rome as ful rhetorically you set the matter forth Now with what face pretende you vnto the worlde that it is an easy matter to finde so many Heretiques emong the Bishops of Rome whereas with long prying and pooring in al your brethrens bookes you could finde but fiue to whom you durst to impute that crime of whiche yet three are vniustly sclaundered and the other two only misliked for their priuate assertions and neuer denounced Heretikes for stubborne maintenance or making any open Decree touching that whereof once they erroneously iudged But yet you wil saie that among the Bishops of Rome there were many Aduouterers So many aduouterers c many Church Robbers many Periured persons many Mankillers many Renegates It is happy M. Iewel that your worde is no sclaunder But I pray you good sir how many can you truly name of al these For of so great a number as you speak of it is wel likely you can name some and your malice is such against the Popes that you wil spare none howe smal a surmise soeuer you haue inducing you to thinke so euil of any Pope Go to then M. Iewel of your so many name vs some one infamous in eche of these great crimes which indifferently you laye to the charge of the Bishops of Rome leauing an euil suspicion in your Readers head that for the most parte al the Bishoppes of Rome were giltie of the one or the other How many Aduoutrers then can you name to vs Pope Hildebrand saye you was an Aduouterer that is a starke sclaunderous lie But were it true how many mo can you name let vs heare them Is there no mo but Pope Hildebrand Is one now become many with you and many but one So many Churche robbers Perchaunce yet of your Churche
of Dauids but rather the vndoing of it as much as laye in Hieroboam For Hieroboam was of an other tribe then Dauid was Iewel By Succession the Turke this daye possesseth and holdeth the foure Patriarchal Sees of the Church of Constantinople Alexandria Antioche and Ierusalem Harding No M. Iewel it is by violence by force The Turk commeth not as a Successour but as an inuader by power of armes by tyrannie and not by Succession as you hold the Churche of Sarisburie by force of the Princes sworde and by none other right Succession is when a man commeth in the same place whiche his predecessour had by the same order and lawe by which his lawful predecessour came to it The sonne succedeth his Father in his landes but the theefe and robber or he that by force inuadeth and keepeth them is no Successour The olde Patriarkes of whom you speake came to their place by Election and Confirmation the Turke by neither of both but only by tyrannie and violence Your Predecessours I meane the true Bishops came to the Churche of Sarisburie orderly by professing them selues to communicate and by taking Confirmatiō of the Bishop of Rome So came not you in therefore you came in by the windowe and not by the doore But now how blinde are you The Turk by Gods special prouidēce kepte frō Rome as not hable to consider why God permitteth the Turke to possesse Constantinople Antioche Alexandria and Ierusalem whereas he keepeth him yet from possessing Rome When the Turke had gotten Constantinople and had so farre entred into Croatia and Hungarie as it is wel knowen Rome was both nearer to him then Alexandria and easier to come by as it might wel haue appeared For the Soldan Lord of Aegypt and Syria and the Sophy ioyned with him were thought farre stronger to resiste him then the power of Italie But the truth is it was the scourge of God to reuenge al Rebelles that would not obey the Church of Rome where the chiefe pastour was placed by Christe whose voice al the shepe ought to heare In Epist Nicolas 1 ad Michaelem Imper. Bessarion in Epist ad Graecos But when the Grecians of pride and disdaine beganne to make a schisme and to diuide them selues from the See of Rome and being ofte warned and terribly threatned yet would not reconcile them selues but though at certaine meetinges they were confounded as at Lions and Florence yet would stil returne to their wilfulnesse and disobey the chiefe Bishop God at the length who made them that would not obey Samuel his Prophete to obey Saule and to feele his heauy hande suffered them vtterly to be ouerthrowen and vanquished and to lye vnder the yoke of most miserable bondage and slauerie which the cruel Turke laieth vpon them The particular declaration of which storie would require a longe Treatie But sure it is that for the withdrawing of their obedience from the Succession of Peter the Grecians are compelled to obey the Succession of Mahomet Iewel Math. 24 By Succession Christe saith desolation shal sitte in the holy place and Antichriste shal presse into the roume of Christe Harding M. Ievvel falsifieth the Scripture Doth Christe saie it shal be so by Succession You falsifie the wordes of God and man and that verely by Succession For so haue al Heretiques your forefather◠done before you And I pray you beholde how wel your wordes hange together Desolation shal fitte in the holy place by Succession and yet Antichriste shal presse in That which is by Successiō is without pressing and that which commeth in by pressing commeth not in by Succession Nay contrarywise Succession is the chiefe way for any Christian man to auoide Antichrist For he that remaineth in that faith whiche came lineally and by Bishop after Bishop from the Apostles he is sure of his enheritance and needeth not to feare lest he obey Antichrist For Antichrist as S. Paule saith cōmeth not 2. Thess 2. except defection and Apostasie goe before He that forsaketh succession may right wel fal vpon Antichriste But he that keepeth him selfe in the chiefe Succession shal be sure not to fal from faith And good reason why For Antichrist commeth in to breake order yea rather the Deuil breaketh the order of Christes Church to prepare a waie for Antichrist For if al menne keepe them selues in one faith and Doctrine when soeuer Antichrist should preache against that he should be detected and knowen vnto al menne But now when there are so many beleefes in the world why may not Antichriste gete a companie to follow him as wel as other Archeheretiques doo He therefore that once changeth his faith except he returne from whence he went can not tel in what Church he is and whether it be Antichristes Churche or no. But he that keepeth that whiche was from the beginning he is sure to holde that faith against which Antichriste must striue and fighte Wherfore S. Iohn speaking of Antichrist saith thus Vos quod audistis ab initio in vobis permaneat 1. Iohan. 2 Let that abide in you which ye haue hearde from the beginning Not that which ye began to heare of late but that whiche yee heard from the beginning let that abide in you let it abide and not be changed Hac scripsi vobis de ijs qui seducunt vos VVho are leaders out of the vvaie I haue written these thinges to you concerning them who leade you out of the waye Marke the wordes who leade you out of the waye which from the beginning you were set in Did not Luther leade vs from the waye wherein we were Did not Caluine lead both vs and some Lutherans too out of the former way There S. Iohn also saith of heretikes Exierunt ex nobis they are gonne out of vs. Nunc Antichristi multi facti sunt Nowe many Antichristes are made It is the going out that maketh an Antichrist and not the abiding within the tentes of the Churche And therefore when Christe forewarned his Disciples of the desolation to come Math. 24 he said among other thinges Nolite exire go not out leaue not your olde enheritance and your Succession for a vaine promise of a new lande Iewel It is not sufficient to claime succession of place it behouet vs rather to haue regarde to succession of Doctrine Harding Therefore you are no Successour in the Bishoprike of Sarisburie by your owne confession For you keepe not the Succession of Doctrine And we ioyne both together For we know who succedeth in the same Doctrine by his quiet Succession in the place If there be no change in the Churche no tumulte no dissension or contradiction then is it certaine that it is a perfit Succession as wel in place as in Doctrine But if a dissension arise and one saie this is true and the other saie this is not true or if the new Bishop accuse his Catholike Predecessours Doctrine then is it sure
seing we are at variance let vs resorte to the very beginning and to the Original which is our Lordes worde and the Apostolike Tradition This was wel said But the Apostolike Tradition was so as Pope Steuen defended and not so as S. Cyprian woulde haue had it And this M. Iewel neither doo you nor can you denie For your selfe I trow wil not allow that they should be baptized againe in your owne Churche that haue ben before baptized in an other Churche which ye accompte for false heretical or schismatical What meant you then to consecrate S. Cyprians errour and to allege his authoritie therein where it ought not to be admitted and allowed But with you the ouersightes of the Fathers the errours of the Greekes the sayinges of heretiques the examples of Schismatiques the obiections of Schoolemen and Canonistes and the pelfe of Gloses is alwaies good stuffe Iewel S. Cyprian saith If the Pipes of the conduite vvhich before ranne vvith abundance happen to faile do vve not vse to searche to the head Harding Yeas if they could faile But in Christes Churche the Pipes can not faile The Pipes of the CoÌ„duite of Christes Church can neuer faile Math. 28. bicause Christe promised to be with his Apostles and thereby with their Successours al daies vntil the worldes ende If the Pipes of Christes grace and of his Churche faile to runne any one daie then is not Christe that daie with his Pastours and teachers and consequently he is not al daies or euery daie with them But if his worde can not be false then the Pipes neuer failed ne shall not faile and that was wel seene in S. Cyprians question For although they in Afrike had cut of the Pipes by force in changing the former custome and Tradition yet in Rome the Pipes ranne stil and therefore Christe was stil with the Bishops of Rome and with the other Bishops who remained in his Communion Example of agreeing in coÌ„munion vvhere is disagreeing in opinion Yea Christe was also with S. Cyprian bicause S. Cyprian departed not from Pope Steuens Communion But he was with S. Cyprian not in that question wherein he dissented from the Pope but in that he consented and agreed with the Pope For he both dissented concerning the particulare case and consented concerning the general bond of vnitie wishing to haue his owne sentence followed but if it were not followed as it was not content to yelde to his brethren rather then to breake of and to make a Schisme For thus he endeth that epistle which he wrote in that argument to Iubaianus Cyprianus Ad IubaianuÌ„ de Haereticis baptizaÌ„d Si quis putatur contentiosus esse nos talem consuetudinem noÌ„ habemus neque Ecclesia Dei. Seruatur à nobis patienter firmiter charitas animi collegij honor vinculum fidei et concordia Sacerdotij If any man be thought to be geuen to strife and debate we haue no such custome nor the Churche of God The Charitie of minde the honour of the societie the bonde of faith and the concorde of Priesthoode is both patiently and firmely keepte of vs. If M. Iewel if before him Luther and Caluine if al the rest of these Gospellers had none otherwise dissented from the Pope and the whole college of Bishops then S. Cyprian did they might haue ben saued as he vndoubtedly is a glorious Martyr in heauen But they imagined the Pipes whereby grace faith and al other giftes are deriued from Christ vnto vs to haue ben broken of for the space of these nine huÌ„dred yeres past deuised with them selues how they might repaire to the head and so might fetche the watter of life vnto vs by new Conduites and Pipes But they were deceiued For after Christe did once set the Pipes a ronning they neuer ceassed nor shal ceasse to ronne til the day of iudgement For the holy Ghost is promised to abide with the Apostles Ioan. 14. Esai 59. The B. of Rome is the successour of Peter Cyprian lib. 4. epi. 2 ad antâ—nianum Luc. 22. and their Successours in aeternum for euer And their Successours are the Bishops And as the Chiefe of the Apostles was S. Peter so S. Cyprian saith of Fabianus who was Bishop of Rome two hundred yeres after S. Peter Cùm Fabiani locus id est cùm locus Petri gradus Cathedrae sacerdotalis vacaret when the place of Fabian that is to say when the place of Peter and the steppe or degree of the Priestly Chaire was voide So that as Peters faith was most specially prayed for and that not only for his owne sake but to the ende he should strengthen and confirme his brethren euen so was euery Bishop of Romes Faith prayed for to the ende euery one might strengthen and confirme his brethren whiche are al Bishoppes in the truthe of the Faith and in the Gouernement of the flocke That Succession of the Bishop of Rome Augu. in in psalmuÌ„ coÌ„t parteÌ„ Donati and of the See of Peter is the Rocke which as S. Augustine saith the proude gates of Hel do not ouercome So he said eleuen hundred yeres past so vntil this howre the thing it selfe proueth so doo we beleeue that it shal be perfourmed by him that promised it vntil the worldes ende bicause it is the Rocke whiche shal euer confesse the true Faith and feede the sheepe of Christ and staye vp the howse of God and confirme al the faithful that leane vnto it Thus haue I confuted M. Iewel your treatise of Succession The Pipe of Christes doctrin hath coÌ„tinued in the catholike Churche onely which I tooke in hande specially to treate of bicause it sheweth most euidently that ye haue no true Churche bicause ye can shew no Pipe or Conduicte which from Christ vntil your Sectes hath stil continued ronning or hath stil deriued his doctrine and grace vnto them of your side It is the Catholike Church whiche you cal the Papistical Church which hath that Pipe and can euidently shew where the streame hath gonne and how it hath ben mainteined from age to age from generation to generation yea from man to man without any interruption Isai 62. Matth. 5. Philipp 2. Matt. 28. Ioan. 14. 16. Esai 59. 1. Timo. 3. Such should the state of the Churche be according to Gods worde where watche men should neuer holde their peace where the citie built vpon the hil can not be hid where the children of light shine like sterres in the middest of the infidelles where Christe is al dayes vnto the worldes ende where the holy Ghoste is for euer teaching al truthe where the piller and sure staye of truthe is visibly seene as with whiche menne be conuersant in this worlde as S. Paule saith where to be shorte Ioan. 21. Christes sheepe are fed of Peter al abiding within the vnitie of his one Folde in this worlde thence and thence only to be transferred vnto the glorious Pasture of life
be sure to liue for ouer the whiche no euil man can eate For if it could so be that he who continueth euil stil should eate the worde made fleash whereas it is the woorde and liuing bread it should not haue ben written whosoeuer eateth this bread shal liue for euer Origen fovvly corrupted by M. Ievv These are the true wordes of Origen But M. Iewel hath so mangled them that the sense is cleane altered For in steede of verbuÌ„ caro factum the worde made flesh he hath placed the body of Christ referring it to the Sacrament And whereas in Origen it is edere verbum factum carnem to eate the word made flesh he hath made exchange thereof into edere corpus Domini to eate the body of our Lorde And so whereas Origen meant that euil men can not eate spiritually and effectually the Diuinitie of Christ so as it dwelleth corporally in his flesh M. Iewel hath taught him to say that an euil man can not in the Sacrament eate Christes bodie Iewel Pag. 210. VVe say vvith S. Augustine the Sacrament is not our Lorde In Iohan. Tract 5â— but the bread of our Lord. Harding S. Augustin denieth not the SacrameÌ„t to be our Lord he hath no such wordes Howbeit we our selues would denie it in some sense For some tyme the Sacrament is taken for the forme of bread and wine and that in deede is not our Lord. Iewel 212. M. Harding might accompt not only seuen but also seuenteen sundry Sacramentes Harding I accompt onely seuen in such sense as the Churche properly taketh a Sacrament And how that is I shewed before Iewel pag. 213. Thus vve say it can not be proued that this number is so specially appointed As for the reasons of seuen seales seuen trumpettes seuen starres seuen golden Candelstikes and seuen eyes they are childish Harding We ground not our seuen Sacramentes vppon those similitudes Seuen Sacrametes August de Ciuit. Dei li. 11. c. 30. de doctrina Christiana lib. 2. cap. 16. Albeit if any man applie some of those matters to the seuen Sacramentes it is not childishely done seing S. Augustine confesseth that the Mysteries of numbers be great in the holy scriptures Iewel 213. Vnto euery Sacrament tvvo thinges are necessarie a sensible outvvard Element as in Baptisme VVater in our Lordes Supper Bread and VVine and the vvord of Institution Harding Thus farre we are agreed with you Iewel Matrimonie Order and penaunce haue the vvoorde of God but they haue no outvvard creature or Element Extrems Vnction and Confirmation haue neither vvoorde nor Element Harding To answere you herein M. Iewel I can not doo better Conci Florentin in vnione Armeniorum then to send you to the Councel of Florence and to the bookes wherein the order of our Sacramentes are conteined Where you shal finde that there lacketh neither the woorde of Institution nor conuenient Element It is yenough to vs that both by the woorde of God and by the perpetual doctrine of the Churche we are taught Act. 8. Iacob 5. Luc. 22. Ioan. 20. that these seuen are Sacramentes Confirmation is proued in the Actes of the Apostles Extreme Vnction in the Epistle of S. Iames Order in S. Luke and in S. Iohn Now baptisme and our Lordes supper your selfe graunt of penaunce and Matrimonie I haue said sufficiently already To be short we are in possession of seuen Sacramentes neither can you nor any man now aliue or that euer liued sith the Apostles shewe that euer the Church was without so many Sacramentes Impugne them when you list I doubt not but you shal be answered For that ye haue said hitherto is litle worthe and most thinges are lyes Iewel pag. 213. 214. De SacrameÌ„tâ— Eucharistia The auncient Fathers hauing occasion to intreate of purpose and specially hereof speake only of tvvo Sacramentes and so Bessarion namely saith Harding None of them al hath written purposely of al the Sacramentes of the Church but as occasion serued M. Ievvel belyeth the ancient Fathers touching the number of the SacrameÌ„tes Dionysius De Ecclesiast Hierarch TertulliaÌ„ lib. de resur carnis Cyprian lib. 2. Epist 1. ad StephanuÌ„ Bessarion de SacrameÌ„to Eucharistiae Bessarion belyed by M. Ievvel they now speake of two now of moe Of two they speake the more specially bicause the custome was to geue them both together to those that were of discretion Howbeit Dionysius Areopagita the most auncient of al intreateth of many moe as his booke de Ecclesiastica Hierarchia doth witnesse Tertullian besides Baptisme and the body of Christ nameth together with them Anointing and Signing and Imposition of handes And the Doctours which you bring affirme two but they denie not moe Yea S. Cyprian whom you cite in the first place can not be proued there to meane by both Sacramentes Baptisme and the supper of our Lorde Bessarion saith two were deliuered plainely in the Scriptures but he confesseth moe whiche are deliuered also in the Scriptures though not so plainely as the other two And he expressely nameth Chrismatis Sacramentum the Sacrament of Confirmation or of Bishopping Of the other Sacramentes in general he speaketh twise in the beginning of that Treatie Wherefore there is an impudâ—nt he included in your wordes where you saie that I haue in expresse wordes The onely two Sacraments of the Churche So that nowe we maie couple you with Beza â—â—o teacheth the same doctrine in his Confession and iuâ—â—ly cal you bothe false teachers Iewel 214. Al these thinges not vvithstanding the Tridentine Councel concludeth seuen Sacramentes Harding So it ought and maie easily doo M. Iewel any thing that you haue yet brought notwithstanding You proue in dede that there are two Sacramentes but that there are no moe you haue not brought so much as one apparent authoritie Sauing that of Bessarion who neuerthelesse is vtterly against you For he beleued and taught that there were seuen Sacramentes Bessarion De Sacramento Eucharistiae as by that Treatie it maye wel appeare But what should I do good reader should I now proue that there are seuen Sacramentes Certainely it were easy for me so to doo and to set out a booke of that Argument farre greater then M. Iewels is And that may wel appeare true by that Ruardus Tapper Cardinal Hosius and Petrus a Soto with diuers other learned menne haue done in this behalfe I am sure M. Iewel wil not denie but I were hable to english at the lest that which I should find in their Latin bookes And yet therein standeth his whole shewe For in deede he doth litle els but english that which the Germaines and Geneuians bookes haue The 7. SacrameÌ„tes proued out of S. Augustine Augustiniana CoÌ„fessio The vntruthes and scoffes that he addeth of his owne though they be many in number yet doo they not greatly increase the bulke of his volume Besides al other Catholique bookes there hath one benne set forth
vpon in the minde for imitation For he that so receiueth the bloud of his Sauiour with this minde that he is not yet willing to folow his Passion hath put the bloud but vpon one poste The very same bloud which is receiued with the mouth of the hart is also expressely taught to be receiued with the mouth of the body It is not therefore bread that entreth into the mouth of the body and it is the flesh of Christ that entreth into the hart But the selfe same thing which the hart feedeth on entreth in at the mouth These are such testimonies that can neuer be auoided by any Answere and at this present they may suffice for this controuersie of the Real Presence For what soeuer M. Iewel bringeth wel may it perhaps proue a figure which I graunt but that figure is also the truth as it may appeare by these witnesses now alleged For the Fathers be not contrarie one to the other but agree al in one faith and doctrine specially in this matter which was euer so continually beleeued and practised in the whole Churche That in olde time many faithful at the celebration of the holy Mysteries stoode by who receiued not the Communion The 6. Chapter Ievvel Pag. 225. Good menne saith M. Harding vvithdravve them selues and are contented to be present only and to stand by but receiue not the sacramēt Ad ephes homil 3. But Chrysostom saith thou maist no more stande here then an Heathen that neuer vvas christened Harding YOu euer make your aduantage of vntrue reporte I did not cal men good for withdrawing themselues but whereas in cōsideration of their vnworthinesse they would humbly withdraw them selues I said this desire to be present and deuoutely to stand by VVhom S. Chrysostom calleth a Catechumē M. Ievvel interpreteth a Heathen was cōmendable As for S. Chrysostom you abuse him very much by interpreting whom he calleth a Catechumen who is a learner of the faith a Heathē as though they were Heathens that professe the faith which is taught in the schoole of Christ It was truly an heathnish interpretation of yours But that very place of S. Chrysostome proueth it was become to be a custome in those dayes the Christians to be present at the holy Mysteries and to stande by although they did not receiue And S. Chrysostome also suffered his owne people and diocesans so to do How be it reprouing them for negligence in not receiuing he vehemently exhorted and stirred them to ofte receiuing Qua ratione Praecodicit Abite qui preces fundere nō potestis Chrysost ad ephes homil 3. Tu vero impudēter perstas Verum nō es istorū sed de illis qui communicare possunt Et tamē rem hāc nihil curas nihil aestimas Item Aduenisti hymnum cecinisti cum cībus reliquis ex eorum te numero esse qui digni sunt hoc ipso confessus es quòd non cum indignis abscessisti Quomodo cùm manseris de mensa ista non participas For what consideration saith the Crier of the Church depart ye that can not praye Yet thou standest stil impudently But thou wilt saie thou art none of those but of them who may communicate and yet carest thou nothing for it regardest it nothing Item afterward Thou art come hither thou hast songe an hymne in this thy facte that thou didst not departe with the vnworthie thou hast confessed thy selfe with al the rest to be one of them that are worthie Wherefore then doest thou not participate of this table seing thou remaynedst behinde Thus we see it was the custome for the faithful people to be present at the mysteries and to stand by though they receiued not the communion And albeit S. Chrysostom reproueth them fot not communicating yet he doth not excommunicate them as breaking the order of the Church in tarying And yet if there had ben such an order he would haue caused the Deacō no lesse to haue driuen them out then the Catechumens the possessed of Spirites or the penitentes But this oddes there was that they only were of necessitie driuen out of the Church who though they would might not communicate But the reste that might communicate did and might tarie albeit they would not communicate Now a wise man as M. Iewel taketh him selfe to be would vnderstand that how earnestly soeuer S. Crysostom speaketh to prouoke those that were present to communicate yet his meaning was not to burden them with any mortal sinne for standing by without receiuing the cōmunion His wordes therfore import a counsel rather then a precept And verely of the two it were lesse euil to stand by and not to cōmunicate then neither to communicate nor to stand by Neither is the standing by that which chiefly S. Chrysostome reproued but the absteining from the Communion And there is no doubt but if whereas none at al by his owne wordes did sometime communicate S. Chrysostom had seene euery one go out of the Churche and him selfe leafte alone he would then as fast haue called them in againe bidding them at the lest to honour the Sacrifice with their presence if they would not sacramentally communicate S. Augustine crieth out vpon those Heretikes Augustin cōt episto Parmeniani lib. 3. cap. 4. that bring the wordes of the Prophetes whiche they spake against the high Priestes and yet wil not looke to the deedes of the Prophetes who alwayes remained in the same Churche with those high Priestes whom they so muche reproued But now the Lutherans and Zuinglians reprouing vs for certaine thinges departe from our companie faith doctrine and Church wherein they haue no example neither of the Prophetes nor of the Fathers Of Communion in one or both kindes The 7. Chapter Iewel Pag. 229. M. Harding saith neither Christe commaunded nor the Apostles ordeined that the Sacrament should be deliuered to the people in both kindes Certainely these vvords of Christe Drinke yee al of this doo this in my remembrance are very plaine vvordes of commaundement and institution In 1. Cor. homi 27. 1. Cor. 11. Therefore Chrysostome saith that Christe said bothe in the bread and also in the cup Doo this in the remembrance of me And Theophylacte The reuerend cup is in equal manner deliuered to al. And vvhereas Christ saith drinke yee al of this Paschasius putteth thereto these vvordes tam ministri quà m reliqui credentes as vvel the ministers as the reste of the faithful Harding Matt. 26. The literal meaning of drink ye al of this THe literal sense of those wordes Drinke ye al of this was none other then that the Cup should be diuided betwen al the twelue in such sort that two or three of them should not drinke it vp as thinking to haue it filled againe for the reste but that Peter should so drinke as to leaue some for Ihon and Ihon so as to leaue some for Androw and so eche mā to leaue some deale til
of Christes Church be my Doctours they be not yours For that Doctrine is generally taught by them al. Lyra vnderstode Christ in the 6. of Iohn to speake of the Euchariste Ioan. 6. Thaâ— Lyra vnderstode the wordes of Christe spoken in the sixth Chapter of S. Iohn of the Euchariste it is cleere bothe by thexposition of that Psalme and also of that chapter In the exposition of the Psalme to declare the benefite of the Sacrament worthily receiued hâ—… allegeth those wordes of Christe Si quis manducauerit ex hoc pane viuet in aeternum If any man eate of this Breade he shal liue for euer Touching the 6. chapter of S. Iohn vpon these wordes Operamini non cibum qui perit c. Thus he writeth Haec autem esca est Christi corpus in Eucharistia c. This meate whereof S. Iohn speaketh is the Bodie of Christe in the Euchariste as it appeareth by the letter following in whiche he speaketh very diffusely of the Sacrament of the Euchariste shewing what is conteined in it really Whereof it is said in this very Chapter hereafter my Fleash is very meate and my Bloude is very drinke Whereby the errour of Berengarius is taken awaye who said the Body of Christe to be conteined in this Sacrament as in a Signe For the whiche he recanted his saying as erroneus Thus Lyra. By these and by many other wordes there Lyra sheweth at large that he was of the opinion that sundrie sayinges of Christe in the 6. Chapter of S. Iohn perteine to the Sacrament Whereby it appeareth how falsely you haue belyed him The wordes which you allege M. Iewel to entwite me of ouersighte are not the wordes of Nicolas Lyra mine owne Doctor as you saie but of one Matthias Doring Matthias Doring who wrote Replies against the Additions of Paulus Burgensis printed with Lyras expositions Wherein as you haue deceiued your Reader with false forgerie fathering that vpon Lyra that Lyra neuer said nor dreamed of so you haue fowly corrupted also this poore Doctor Doring with cutting of his wordes pretending him to speake of these wordes of S. Iohn He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloude hath life euerlasting and I wil raise him againe in the last daie which I alleged whereas in deede he spake neither of these wordes specially nor of Christes whole discourse in that chapter of S. Iohn in general but onely of these special wordes of S. Iohn Nisi manducaueritis carnem filij hominis biberitis eius sanguinem non babebitis vitam in vobis Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his Bloude ye shal not haue life in you That the truth be knowen and your falsehed detected thus it is Burgensis had written these wordes Licet Iohannis sexto legatur Purgen Additione 1. in Psal 112. Nisi manducaueritis carnem filij hominis non habebitis vitam in vobis per hoc tamen secundùm Doctores non imponitur praeceptum necessitatis ad sumptionem huius Sacramenti prout Augustinus declarat Vnde sumptio huius Sacramenti corporaliter quantum ad populum vel Laicos cadit sub consilio potius quà m praecepto Although we reade in the sixth Chapter of S. Iohn except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man ye shal not haue life in you yet hereby after the Doctors minde we are not charged with a precept of necessitie to receiue this SacrameÌ„t but only the thing of the Sacrament By the thing of the Sacrament is meant the Vnitie of the Church as S. Augustin declareth Wherefore the receiuing of this SacrameÌ„t bodily as touching the laie people is such a thing as is rather counseled then coÌ„maunded Hitherto Burgensis Now coÌ„meth me in Doctor Doring whom M. Iewel would haue menne beleue to be Nicolas Lyra and findeth fault with Burgensis for alleging the said wordes of S. Iohn excepte ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man c. to this sense Matthias Doring in replica in Psal 110. that the corporal Communion as touching the laie people is a matter of counsel Per hoc non satisfit Haereticis modernis The Heretiques of our age wil not be satisfied with this saith he And why It followeth there Quia litera non habet illud dictuÌ„ fundamentum Bicause that saying that the bodily receiuing of the SacrameÌ„t in laye folke is a matter of counsel hath not his foundation out of the texte And therefore concerning the Sacramental Communion it hath not the force of a precept neither for the Clergie nor for the laitie as touching al according to the true vnderstaÌ„ding of that text Howbeit in the same place it is declared of what eating and drinking it ought to be vnderstaÌ„ded to witte of the spiritual For it foloweth he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him Which S. Augustin expoundeth saying Hoc est manducare illam escam bibere illum potum in Christo manere Christum manentem in se habere This is to eate that meate and to drinke that drinke a man to dwel in Christ and to haue Christ dwel in him which is no thing els but to be in Charitie .. Then followe these wordes whereof M. Iewel would take aduantage Hoc auÌ„t omnibus indiffereÌ„ter est praeceptuÌ„ implicitè sed nihil directè pertinet ad SacrameÌ„talem vel corporalem manducationem Hoc verbum nisi maÌ„ducaueritis c. This is geueÌ„ in coÌ„maundement to al men indifferently by waie of implying But this saying Except ye eate the flesh of the SoÌ„ne of man c. This word or this saying perteineth nothing at al to the SacrameÌ„tal or corporol eating Thus farre Matthias Doring Thus you maie vnderstand M. Iewel the wordes you allege be not Lyras but one Doringes and the same haue relation not to the place of S. Ihon that I brought but onely to these wordes Excepte ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man ye shal not haue life in you Whiche wordes after that Doctours mynde importe not a precepte of necessitie of the Sacramental or corporal eating and so thinke I to And though he iudged they were not aptly alleged of Burgensis to proue that the bodily receiuing of the Sacrament is a mater of counsel and not of precepte bicause they perteine not to the Sacramental Communion at al yet the other saying he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloude hath life auerlasting and I wil raise him againe in the last daie maie wel be alleged for benefite of the Resurrection of the fleshe to redounde to the faithful beleeuer of the worthy receiuing of Christes Bodie in the Euchariste for whiche purpose it was by me alleged You should haue sene these thinges better before ye had entwited me of ouersight Iewel Hovv liued then the Patriarkes and Martyrs and hovv shal children haue life vvho neuer receiue the Sacrament Harding Pag. 324. I make not the real eating
vnto a man without any formal writinges according to the Ciuil Lawes and is taken with intent and affection of marriage This woman the intent and affection maketh a wife but the lawe that is to saie the Ciuil lawe nameth her a Concubine Yea the Canons also doo name such a Woman a Concubine sometimes and not a wife vntil the Marriage be solemnized not that shee is a whoore but that with the reprocheful name of a Concubine as it were with a secrete rebuke suche personnes be driuen to solemnize and publish their marriage in the face of the Church Nowe let it be iudged by the Learned what you are worthy to haue for dissembling this much Gratian had alleged certaine Canons Dist 33. c. Laici c. Fin. wherein mention was made that they might continue in holy Orders and minister who before they were made Priestes had had Concubines In this sentence therefore that now I translated he expoundeth how the worde Concubine is to be taken in those Canons asmuche to faie for a wife taken priuately without publique Solemnization For saith he the Ciuil law taketh not for a wife but nameth a Concubine whiche is a baser and a more reprocheful name her which a man taketh and vseth for his wife without any solemne and publike instrument made concerning the dowrie and other matters accustomed to be agreed vpon betwen the man and wife And this with diuers other solemnities to take away occasion of strife 30. q. 5. c. ◠3. 4. and sinne was politikely ordeined by the Ciuil Lawe and Canon also But assoone as that writing was made and publique Solemnite perfourmed the children borne before were accompted lawfully borne and the Concubine to haue ben a wife from the beginning And this woman the lawe nameth in the meane time a Concubine § Nec non Iustin de nuptijs Concil Toletan 1. cap. 17. and not a whoore And Gratian to proue this exposition to be true and good alleged the Councel of Toledo saying De hac dicitur in Concilio Toletano Is qui non habet c. Of this Woman it is said in the Councel of Toledo he that hath not a wife but hath a Concubine for a wife let him not be put backe from the Communion Whiche wordes you bring to proue that the Churche doth allowe Concubines Wherein it is plaine that the worde Concubine is taken for a wife taken priuately and not openly married with due solemnitie in the face of the Churche yet kepte in bed and at burde as a wife with intent of wedlocke which was in olde time very common in Spaine and yet is in some places And the Councel there holden doth not repelle from the Communion those that haue suche wemen in that sorte Whereas if the worde Concubine signified a whoore in that Canon of the Councel of Toledo as it doth most commonly in other places the Councel would not haue wincked at that sinne nor suffered suche personnes to comme vnto the Communion but would haue repelled them Dist 56. Toto titulo ext le filijs presbyt 3. Reg. 12 as by many other Decrees the Church doth and also repelleth their children and bastard broode from the holy order of Priesthoode whereunto ye admitt◠the rascalles and the outcastes of al the people to further your carnal Doctrine as Ieroboam admitted the like to bring the people of Israel to Apostasie and Idolatrie Dist 34. Audite Aug. li. 50 homiliarū homi 49. That the Church alloweth not Concubines taken in the worse sense euen in the same place it is witnessed by S. Augustine alleged in the Decrees in whom thus we finde Concubinas habere non licet vobis si non habetis vxores tamen non licet vobis habere Concubinas quas postea dimittatis vt ducatis vxores tantò magis damnatio erit vobis si volueritis habere vxores Concubinas It is not lawful for you to haue Concubines Albeit ye haue no wiues yet it is not lawful for you to haue such Concucubines as which afterward ye maie put away to the ende to take wiues so muche the greater shal be your dānation if ye wil haue both wiues and Concubines And this signification of Concubina is not strange that when a man mindeth to marrie a woman she be called a Concubine whiche in deede is a true wife before God though she be not knowen so to be in the publique fame of the people til the marriage be solemnized A concūbine is a vvife secretly takē vvith out solēnitie of marriage It maie please you to looke on your brother Matthias Flacius Illyricus in his booke entitled Clauis Scripturae in the word Concubina And you shal find the word takē in this sense and the same proued by diuers authorities Ioannes de Turre Cremata a man right wel learned vpon the Chapter Omnibus before alleged saith thus Abraham praeter Saram habuit Agar ancillam vxorem sic enim dicitur Genes 16. Dedit Sara ancillam viro in vxorem Suam post mortem verò Sarae accepit Abraham Ceturam vxorem vt legitur Gen. 25. Et quia istae non fuerunt acceptae cum illa solennitate quamuis essent vxores affectu in veritate dictae tamen sunt Concubinae vt Genesis 25. vbi dicitur dedit Abraham cuncta quae possidebat Isaac filijs verò Concubinarum munera In libro etiam Iudicum idem habetur videlicet quòd vxor vocetur Concubina vt patet Iudic. 19. c. Abraham beside Sara had Agar to wife that was his wiues maide seruaunt for so it is said in the 16. Chapter of Genesis Sara gaue her maide vnto her husband to be his wife And after the death of Sara Abraham tooke Cetura to be his wife as we reade in Genesis the 25. chapter And bicause these wemen were not taken with that solemnitie as the wiues were although they were wiues in affection and in truth yet were they called Concubines as in Genesis 25. Chapter where it is said Abraham gaue al the thinges which he possessed to Isaac but to the sonnes of his Concubines he gaue giftes The same is also to be founde in the booke of the Iudges that a wife is called a Concubine as it appeareth Iudges 19. chapter c. This therefore proueth not your sclaunder M. Iewel wherewith you burthen the Canonistes as defending Simple Fornication to be no sinne Let vs see whether your other stuffe be any better to that purpose Constit Othonis Boni decō cubinis clerico remonendis licet ad pro sugandū in glossa In eadem glossa Iewel Pag. 360. Likevvise it is noted in the Glose vpon the constitutions of Otho Bonus Videtur quòd crimē meretricij Ecclesia sub dissimulatione trasire debeat It semeth that the Church ought to passe ouer the crime of vvhooredom vnder dissimulatiō and not to see it In vvhich Glose ye shal finde these vvordes Si
a. line 6. M. Iewelles most shamelesse and most notorious Lies other common vntruthes of false alleaging and false translating omitted noted in such order as they lie in this Detection confuted The first lie fol. 1. b. line 27. The ij fol. 3. a. line 15. The iij. fol. 4. a. line 17. The iiij fol. 6. a. line 5. The v. fol. 6. b. line 25. and 7. a. l. 17. The vj. fol. 7. b. line 12. The vij fol. 8. b. line 15. The viij fol. 9. b. line 12. The ix fol. 10. b. line 19. The x. ibidem line 28. The xj fol. 12. b. line 25. The xij fol. 13. b. line 9. The xiij xiiij and xv fol. 15. a. line 3. The xvj xvij and xviij fol. 16. b. line 5. The xix and xx fol. 19. a. line 2. and 17. The xxj xxij xxiij xxiiij xxv and xxvj fol. 20. b. l. 6. The xxvij fol. 45. b. line 30. The xxviij fol. 46. a. line 28. The xxix and xxx fol. 47. a. line 4. and 26. The xxxj fol. 48. a. line 20. The xxxij fol. 62. a. line 22. The xxxiij fol. 63. a. line 13. The xxxiiij fol. 64. a. line 25. The xxxv fol. 66. b. line 10. The xxxvj fol. 67. a. line 24. The xxxvij fol. 74. b. line 28. The xxxviij and xxxix fol. 75. a. line 10. and 18. The xl fol. 78. b line 14. The xlj fol. 81. a. line 17. The xlij fol. 81. b. line 26. The xliij fol. 82. b. line 9. The xliiij xlv and xlvj fol. 83. b. line 23. 28. The xlvij fol. 84. b. line 8. The xlviij fol. 85. b. line 1. The xlix fol. 87. b. line 20. The l. fol. 88. a. line 17. The lj fol. 93. a. line 22. The lij fol. 95. a. line 23. The liij fol. 96. a. line 11. The liiij fol. 98. a. line 10. The lv conteniing more then v. petit Vntruthes in it fol. 99. a. 100. a. line 9. The lvj fol. 100. b. line 3. The lvij fol. 101. b. line 13. The lviij fol. 102. a. line last The lix fol. 103. a. line 7. The lx and lxj fol. 106. a. line 2. 3. The lxij fol. 108. a. line 27. The lxiij most vile and filthy fol. 120. a. line 24. 121. lines 16. sequent The lxiiij fol. 128. b. line 17. The lxv 145. a. line 17. The lxvj and lxvij fol. 169. b. lines 14. and 15. The lxviij lxix lxx and lxxj fol. 171. a. lines 24. 25. 26. and 27. Item fol. 171. b. and 172. a. The lxxij fol. 172. b. line 3. The lxxiij fol. 186. b. line 21. The lxxiiij fol. 187. b. line 16. The lxxv fol. 189. a. line 21. The lxxvj fol. 207. a. line 22. The lxxvij fol. 209. b. line last The lxxviij fol. 215. a. line 21. The lxxix fol. 229. b. line 8. The lxxx fol. 232. a. line 6. The lxxxj most Impudent fol. 232. b. line 20. The lxxxij fol. 234. a. line 2. b. 18. The lxxxiij fol. 245. b. line 20. The lxxxiiij fol. 249. a. line 24. The lxxxv fol. 249. b. line 20. The lxxxvj fol. 251. a. line 14. The lxxxvij fol. 253. b. line first The lxxxviij fol. 255. b. line 19. The lxxxix fol. 256. b. line 12. The xc fol. 262. b. line 28. The xcj. and xcij. fol. 263. a. lines 5. and 15. The xciij and xciiij fol. 263. b. lines 17. and 21. The xcv and xcvj fol. 264. a. lines 7. and 18. The xcvij. fol. 265. b. line 15. The xcviij fol. 266 a. line 3. The xcix fol. 266. b. line 25. The c. fol. 268. b. line 2. The cj. fol. 269. a. line 18. The cij fol. 271. b. line 1. The .ciij. fol. 282. b. line 3. The ciiij. fol. 283. b. line 23. The cv fol. 285. a. line 18. The cvj. fol. 285. a. line 24. The cvij. fol. 285. b. line 28. The cviij fol. 286. a. line 17. The cix fol. 287. a. line 3. The cx fol. 287. b. line 6. The cxj. fol. 288. a. line 19. The cxij. fol. 288. a. line 21. The cxiij fol. 290. a. line 17. The cxiiij fol. 296. b. line 25. The cxv fol. 299. b. line 15. The cxvj fol. 302. a. line 17. The cxvij fol. 303. a. line 15. The cxviij fol. 305. a. line 7. The cxix fol. 305. a. line 22. The cxx fol. 306. a. line 10. The cxxj fol. 308. a. line 16. The cxxij fol. 309. a. line 25. The cxxiij fol. 321. b. line 22. The cxxiiij fol. 322. a. line 14. The cxxv fol. 323. b. line 28. The cxxvj. fol. 327. b. line 7. The cxxvij. fol. 333. b. line 20. The cxxviij fol. 335. a. line 1. The cxxix fol. 342. a. line 14. The cxxx fol. 345. a. line 6. The cxxxj fol. 347. a. line 26. The cxxxij fol. 352. a. line 14. The cxxxiij fol. 356. a. line 4. The cxxxiiij fol. 357. b. line 2. The cxxxv fol. 358. b. line 13. The cxxxvj fol. 360. b line 3. The cxxxvii fol. 370. b. line 6. The cxxxviij fol. 373. b. line 2. The cxxxix fol. 380. b. line 4. The cxl fol. 381. b. line 20. The cxlj. fol. 382. a. line 16. The cxlij fol. 383. a. line 19. The cxliij fol. 387. a. line 13. The cxliiij fol. 391. b. line 15. The cxlv fol. 392. b. line 19. The cxlvj. fol. 399. a. line 21. The cxlvij. fol. 401. a. line 31. The cxlviij fol. 402 b. line 23. The cxlix fol. 404. a. line 12. The cl fol. 406. b. line 2. The clj. fol. 410. a. line 15. The clij. fol. 412. a. line 18. FINIS A Table of the chiefe matters treated of in this Booke A AErius his heresies fol. 133. b. Agreing in Cōmunion vvhere is disagreing in opinion fol. 272. b. Almaricus fol. 111. a. Almaric and Abailard Heretiques fol. 102. b. Alphonsus impudently belied by M. Iewel fol. 63. a. Alphonsus shamefully abused by M. Iewel fol. 6. b. S. Ambroses minde touching praying to Saintes fol. 362. a. Anacletus his Decree expounded fol. 60. b. 61. a. Answer to special wordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iew. fol. 45. a. Answer to M. Iewels View of his vntruthes fol. 56. b. Angelles and Archangelles fol. 142. b. Anacletus not cōunterfeite fol. 227. b. Ancyran Councel answered touching the cōtinuance of married Deacons in the ministerie fol. 298. b. Anselmusmade wrōgfully a spokesmā for Priestes Marriages fol. 308. a. Apostasie of the Protestantes fol. 35. b. 36. a. b. Apostata who so is and vvhat it signifieth fol. 35. b. 236. a. The Apostates married of the English Congregation fol. 36. b. Application of Christes merites to others in the Masse fol. 355. b. Appollinaris the elder not married after he vvas priest fol. 304. b. Argumentes hanging from heauen to earth fol. 142. a. An Argument prouing this new Congregation not to be the true Churche fol. 92. a. Augustine falsely alleged by M. Ievvel fol. 113. a. Augustines Doctrine of General Councelles fol. 113. b. 114. Augustines place to Dardanus expounded fol. 117. B BAptisme
lyes and gloses and also an vnprofitable bestowing of good time Iewel They are gonne from Faith to infidelitie from Christe to Antichrists Harding Which they M. Iewel Did he speake of the Popeâ—… of Rome M. Ievvel odiously layeth that to the Bishops of Rome vvhiche vvas spoken generally by vvaie of coÌ„plaint of al euil ChristiaÌ„s You say touching the Church of Rome c. And yet now you bring forth that which was generally spoken and that by waie of complaint of al euil Christians and not namely of the Bisshops of Rome Againe how are they gonne from faith to infidelitie and from Christ to Antichrist Verely bicause they are gonne froÌ„ God to Epicure that is to say bicause many of them liue as if they had neither faith nor Christ nor God Last of al he saith not they are gonne as you falsifie his wordes but with a moderation would God they were not gonne He sheweth him selfe to feare lest they be gonne he taketh not vpon him boldly to affirme it as you doo Iewel And yet al other thinges failing they must holde onely by Succession and only bicause they sit in Moyses Chaire they must claime the possession of the vvhole This is the right and vertue of their Succession Harding Is it not reason if secular men hold their kingdomes landes goodes and rightes by Succession yea when al other rightes forces and vertues faile that Gods Ministers if they had nothing els leaft should hold stil their owne also by Succession It is wel knowen that the Bishops of Rome haue more then only Succession For they make good Decrees they geue answer to great consultations they cal General and Prouincial Councelles they execute the Canons of them and send forth Preachers as of late they haue done euen vnto the new found Indies beside many other godly and vertuous actes which they exercise for the saluation of their own soules and of the people But what if they had nothing but Succession Would you then haue men forsake their folde and Church Did Isaias so did Esdras so did Iudas Machabeus so did Zacharias so did S. Iohn Baptist so Can you deuise the Popes to be worse then Caiphas or the Pharisees Math. 23. And yet Christ willed them to be obeied albeit they had litle els beside Succession It is this Succession M. Iewel which shal lie in your and in your companions waie at the dredful day of accompte It shal not be demaunded of euery man why he studied not the Scriptures which most men haue not learned to reade But it shal be demaunded why they haue no faith nor charitie No faith by forsaking the open and knowen Succession no charitie by breaking vnitie Euery man seeth Succession ignorance can not be pretended and euery man shal be iudged by it concerning his Faith Iewel The vvordes of Tertullian M. Harding vvhich you haue here alleged vvere spoken of certaine your ancient fathers that had raised vp a nevv religion of them selues as you haue also done vvithout either vvorde of God or example of the Apostles and holy fathers Harding It is happy that at the length Here at length M. Ievvel beginneth to ansvver my vvordes but how consider you beginne to answere my wordes We shal now see how wel you touche Tertullians meaning You say his wordes were spoken of certaine my ancient Fathers That can not be so For none are in this behalfe my fathers but those who loue wel the Succession of Bishops But Tertullian spake of those De Prascription aduersus Haret that esteemed the Succession of Bishops as litle as you do And therefore they are your fathers of whom he speaketh that is to say they are Heretikes of whom he speaketh For in dede no heretike can abide Succession bicause they would faine iustle out the olde Succession to schuffle in their new Intrusion You say the men of whom Tertullian speaketh raised vp a new Religion of them selues and therein you say truth You adde as I also haue donne but therein you belye me for ye are not hable to laye any one point of doctrine to my charge wherein I follow not that old Succession which abhorreth al new Religion Let al the worlde iudge who raiseth vp a newe Religion you or I. You say the Heretiques of who Tertullian spake raised vp a new Religion without the Worde of God example of the Apostles or of holy Fathers If you meane without the true meaning of Gods worde you say truth and then you also are without Gods worde bicause you are without the Church whereunto Gods worde with the true interpretation thereof was geuen and we are not without it bicause we conteine our selues within the Churche But if you meane that these heretikes did not sounde the wordes of the Scriptures in their lippes as falsely and withal as fast as you doo then you say not truly For Tertullian in that booke doth shew that the Heretikes also appealed to the Scriptures Tertullian in Prascript aduersus haeret and he answered that to striue with heretiques vpon the scriptures was a thing of vncertaine victorie bicause one saith it is not holy Scripture an other saith it is holy Scripture one saith it is meant thus an other saith it is â—â—â—â—t otherwise But saith Tertullian the interpretation of the Scriptures belongeth to them It booteth not to striue vvith heretiques about the Scriptures who haue the true faith and he concludeth that they haue the true faith who haue the perpetual Succession of Bishoppes from the Apostles time til their owne daies Scripturas obtendunt hac sua audacia statim quosdam mouent The Heretiques pretende to bring Scriptures for them selues and with that their impudencie forthwith they shake some And afterward Ibidem Ergo non ad scripturas prouocandum est nec in his constituendum certamen in quibus aut nulla aut incerta victoria est aut parum certa Therefore we must not alwaies appeale vnto the Scriptures neither must we striue about them in which either no victorie at al or an vncertaine or verely not very certaine victorie is obteined Then sheweth he that heretikes of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures but onely the Catholiques Heretiques of right haue not to doo with the Scriptures TertulliaÌ„ Ibidem to whom the Apostles deliuered them and not them only but other thinges also viua voce by mouth and worde without writing Si hac ita sunt constat proinde omnem doctrinam quae cum illis Ecclesiis Apostolicis matricibus et originalibus fidei conspiret veritati deputandam reliquam verò omnem doctrinam de mendacio praeiudicandam quae sapiat contra veritatem Ecclesiarum Apostolorum Christi Dei. If this be so then is it euident that al such doctrine as agreeth with those that are the Apostolique Churches the mother Churches and the original Churches of the faith is to be taken for true and that al other