other doth giue may not be the best which is to erre according to the Analogy of place not of faith Ma. The Knights answere is not yet refelled If the Doctrine of true faith depend vpon the soliditie of exposition it cannot be but they who may errein the Analogy of exposition of place may likewise faile in the Analogy of faith Laeso fuÌ„damine nutat Tota domâ— Iab This Distinction you n Ibid. vnderstand not when manie Fathers of the Church agree in the same exposition of Scripture without the contradiction of anie the same is to be thought the vndeniable sence of that place Ma. The Doctrine of the Romish Church is far more strict then you seeme to allow If the credit of the Ihesuite Chauasius o Profess orth sid §. 37 may beare any sway you are to stand to that exposition of Scripture and that vpon oath which is Secundum vnanimem consensum Patrum whereas you content your selfe with the agreeable consent of manie p Ad quem ibimus Fathers in the same exposition of Scripture How you will auoid perjurie or what time you had need take to the making of a Sermon following this rule I referre me to your most serious and sober thoughts he had need haue a good Librarie that will auoid the censure of your Church yea he may perchance burne all his bookes before hee shall set them agreed In this point wee will giue allowance to your position hauing produced more demonstratiue authorities for the nullifying then you for the ratifying of Purgatorie I confesse it will bee no easie matter for vs to prooue a contradiction in the exposition of the place especially amongest those who neuer heard of that Commentitious figment for how should they gain say that which was not so much as questioned in the more Ancient times It sufficeth vs that your sence hath no generall iustification in neyther of your grounds which are otherwise interpreted by the most and not peremptorily paraphrased for your purpose by anie of the best ranke Iab Caluins q Pag. 70 Arianizing wit though hee may find some plausible euasion cannot be excused of haereticali call rashnesse who dareth expound this text of Scripture Ego Pater vnum sumus I and the father are one of vnitie of consent and will not of nature and substance adding that the Ancients did abuse the same to proue the consubstantialitie of the Sonne of God Seing the vniforme consent of Fathers haue canonized that meaning of the words he cannot be a true Christian that will not neyther was Caluin that did not submit his Iudgement thereunto Ma. May the Fathers to proue this or that Catholique veritie bring in places of Scripture that haue other sence yea maie the sence that one or other doth giue not bee the best though the Doctrine thereby proued be true then iudge how base and iniurious an imputation you lay vpon Caluin fetching him by force within the compasse of hereticall Arianizme who was euer most aduerse to that viperous brood hauing no other crime to challenge him withall besides a religious modestie in forbearing to rack a parcell of Scripture for the vttering of that euidence which was more naturally deputed to the deliuery of other places The sacred writ is so plentifull in proofes for the confutation of that diuellish surmise that hee held it no good discretion to rayse a suspition of penurie or doubt by insisting vpon that which being not fully pregnant might bee auoided by the indifferent sence of another clause where the same phrase did occurre You may as well challenge Bellarmine Valentianus and other Ihesuites who in their Treatises concerning the Trinitie doe not approoue of manie interpretations of Scripture which were by the Fathers somewhat too liberally produced against the same Heresie of Arianisme As for the place now questioned the judgement of Caluin is that the word vnum cannot absolutely euince an Indiuidual vnitie of Essence because in the seuententh of Iohn vers 22. Christ prayeth vnto his father concerning the elect that they may be one as we are one where the word vnum cannot inforce an vnitie of Essence in respect of the elect and therefore not inferre an Indiuidual vnitie in respect of the father This Inducement of Caluin thus grounded vpon Analogie of Scripture doth at least acquit him from your Taxation of Rashnesse Might it stand with your leasure to peruse his diuers confutations of Arianisme you should find him plentifull in alleadging manie other more direct places to that end Iab Hee cannot bee a true Christian that would not submit his Iudgement to the vniforme consent of the Fathers Ma. This is your vsuall ostentation this is one of the bombasted Articles of your new Romish faith If this may be allowed as the touch stone of Christianitie all the sort of you will soone appeare to bee most professedly periured aboue all other Votaries in the world There are diuers places of Scripture expounded with vniforme consent of Fathers in cases of no small moment which are at this day r D. Mâ—rta de Iurisdict part 4. pag. â—73 Maldon com in Mat. 19. Platin. in Steph. vita rejected by your Church When you pull out this beame of Periurie out of your owne eye you may with better licence point at the mote of Rashnesse which you cast vpon Caluins brow Iab The vniforme consent of Fathers Å¿ Pag. 71 doth not require that euerie one none excepted should expressely teach the same Doctrine for then scarse in anie point could this vniforme consent be proued seeing all write not of the same point but it sufficeth that manie haue taught it without the contradiction of the rest and such is the exposition of this place for Purgatorie and for the dead in the next world Nick. O how curious the Doctor is in his limitations and preuentions hee would haue made a good Lawyer able to set all his neighbours together by the eares Hee is content to chop Logick with you by the clocke but to keepe himselfe from push of Pike he sets a dead hedge and a double quicke set in the way When he boasts of vniforme consent hee meanes not euerie father none excepted when hee speakes of teaching he supposeth it may be collaterally and not expresly Besides he would haue you learne that all who expound the same place doe not write of the same point Nay more if the corruptions of latter times haue put a Quillet vpon any learned mans pen vnlesse it bee contradicted by the writers of former ages who did not so much as suspect any such vnhatched Nouelties it must passe as currant not to be opposed whithout the tincture of heretical rashnesse This I take to be the project of Iabals mazed speech Ma. By my white Staffe the earnest of my neighbours loue and the Ensigne of mine office well noted He would lead vs into a Labyrinth and wot you what the taile of his assertion sauors more of
the euent hath made apparant to what ende then doth he protest the p Pag. 2. sincerity of his good meaning Why doth he labour to colour his former frumpe with a distinction of learning yeilding the lesser arm of that tree to the Knight and keeping the greater as purchased by his long q Pag. 9. sâ—â—dy and delight to himselfe whereas in fine he dispossesseth him of all euen of the least leafe of the smallest branch Ma. Thus is the Foxe now vncased his r Preface Flag of due respect and dutifull affection prooued to bee but the Ensigne of Subtilty but I would gladly see vpon what ground he buildeth those his derogatory and disgracefull termes Min. Forsooth he hath gotten the wind of an opposition betweene the Knights poetry and his prose and that in the first sentence of his Counter-snarle which he produceth as a Å¿ Pag. 10. perspectiue vnto the rest Heresie saith hee hath in all ages contriued artificiall shadowes which he iustifieth with this marginall verse Artibus impietas ingeniosa caret This Rabshacheh reading without an Intergatory saith that the marginall Muse t Ibid. gainsaith the text whereas the argument is drawne ab impossibili vizt that it cannot be that witty Impiety should be to seeke of cunning conueighance then which nothing can bee more sutable to the purpose But admit there were no dash visible to his squinting eyes besides the full poynt yet might his wisdome haue taken it for spoken Ironically in which acceptation it is no lesse then vnicent to the Prose Ma. Tut this Make-bate hath no other proiect but to set Ephraim against Manasses and Manasses against Ephraim to cast a bone betweene the Margent and the u Pag. 11. Text and to set them both together by the eares with the truth but the best is the least dash of a pen will easily reconcile them Min. Nay this is not all hee challengeth the Prose also as * Pag. 10. notoriously false in auerring that the countenance of venerable Antiquity is the artificiall colour wherwith Heresie doth paint her selfe whereas saith he Heresie hath in all ages disclaimed the Award of Antiquity Nick. Then I am sure our Preacher deliuered false doctrine the last Sunday for hee spake much of Patrem habemus Abrahamum and I remember hee had such a word as Templum Domini which was frequent as he said in the mouth of the Idolatrous and Hypocriticall Iewes Hee spake somewhat also of the x Epipham Adamians who vouched nothing but Antiquity and of the Acephali who y Damas in Orat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pleaded the authority of Athanasius and Cyril for the passage of their heresieâ— the particulars are crept out of my slippery braine Min. Hee might further haue informed you of the Heretique Dioscorus who in the open Councell did vant of the Pedegree and descent of his doctrine from all the ancient Fathers of the Church z Concil Chalced Act. 1. Ego testimonia habeo sanctorum patrum Athanasij Gregorij c. Ego defendo patrum dogmata I haue the witnesse saith hee of the holy Fathers I defend the Fathers doctrine Was not Carosus an Heretique yet forsooth he did beleeue a Con. il Chalced Act. 4. secundum expositionem trecentorum decem et â—cto patrum according to the exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers If the Plea of Antiquity were not a glistering varnish Andreas Barbatius would not haue gone so high to fetch the descent of his Romish Cardinalls grounding their foundation vpon those words of Hannah b 1. Sam. 2.8 Dominisunt Cardines terrae et posuit super cos orbem Ma. Hee might haue shewen himselfe a more skilfull Herauld and gone neerer the sound sence had he drawne their originall from these wordes of the Apostle c 1. Cor. c. 3. ver 3. Vos autem carnales estis but these Arcadian must bee a day or two elder then the Moone or else they will hold themselues no Gentlemen their holy water must either flow from Elizaeus or else it hath but a base current and could they not fetch the authority of their Monasticke life from the sample of Christ himselfe they would repute it as of d Pag. 84. an vpstart family Nick. I applaud their witte this is not the worst fetch to gaine esteeme Were I a rich man it should cost me an hundred e Aâ—ro vaenit honos pound twice told but I would haue Saturne or Priamus to stand on the top of my line I would not sticke to alter two or three letters of my name to make my selfe of kinne to f A Ioue tertius Aiax Pantagruel Me thinks g Horat. Ode 1. Moecenas atauis edite regibus is a stately Iambick it runnes so full in the mouth Ma. The best iest the liuely Embleme of his malicious spirit is this that hee playeth vpon the h Pag. 36. letters which fall in order without any choice as directs to the marginall notes Hee had charged the Knight with an vnlearned Letter heereupon Sir Edward discouering diuers his Solaecismes and Incongruities more then were named to abridge the length of his Letter did margent thus Si ego indignus which word hee falsly cited haâ—c contumelia tu indignus qui faceres tamen This falling vnder the letter O Rabshacheh wittely tells him that that had reason to cry i Pag. 36. O with which letter it was marked In like manner he descants vpon the letter T by which hee vnderstands Throne Nick. Alas poore man I beshrew my heart if I do not pitty the penury of his barren conceit He was neere driuen God wot when hee was faine to ransacke the Wardrope of his witte for such thred-bare shifts Min. What thinke you of this when the Knight tells him that hee had a spight onely at one page which lies in the heart of his Letter hee in the quaintnesse of his nimble Conceipt retorts it thus k Pag. 30. It lies in the heart Was not here an Eccho farre fetch'd When the Knight sayes well flowne Buzzard he conceitedly answeres l Pag. 2. I did not marke how neere a kinne that soaring bird was to a Buzzard For Miles gloriosus hath beene long since hissed off the stage he returnes m Pag. 3. you play Miles gloriosus somewhat more Arte hee shewes in putting Cerberus for Gelons dogge For a good mans Dogge hath broken his legge ouer a lesse stile he altering the person saith n Pag. 33. I feare your good dogge hath broken his legge And as for the Noddy the Couentree Cappe and the Tobacco pipe he bandies them vp and downe as if the Tennis-court would affoord him no other balls Thus doth he play Tom Skull reuerberating according to his Rhetoricall skill the same syllables without any variety of inuention Ma. Sir It was well obserued I now see Nicks report was grounded vpon good warrant Ishmael is a perfect
put the cause z Ezech. 36.27 for the effect wherefore seeing there is no other place to warrant your construction I am the rather induced to thinke that Remission is here put for the fruit and effect thereof which is peace of conscience ioy in the Holy Ghost and exemption from penaltie of all which this notorious sinner is pronounced vncapable partly in this and partly in the next World which is a sufficient disparitie differencing him from others which enioy both Wherefore the last clause in our sence is not superfluous and sencelesse as you deeme seeing it extendeth it selfe to a further effect of the former Remission whereof the Blasphemer hath no hope Ma. Were the speech sencelesse if one should say that the Doctor buildes Castles in the Ayre The speech is vsuall amongst the wisest men should hee not then shew himselfe a worthie Logician hence to conclude Ergo materiall Castles may be built in the Ayre or else the phrase cannot be discreet and wise If borrowed Elegances were literally and properly to be construed then vnlesse the skie fall wee should haue no Larkes because the Prouerbe sayth When the skie falles wee shall haue Larkes This Doctrine would haue driuen the Larke-taker to seeke a new occupation and then your Ladies could not say by experience that the pestle of a Larke were better then the whole bodie of a Kiâ—e Nick. Doe you not thinke that the Doctor was lap'd in his Mothers smocke he is so womanish that he will neuer giue ouer till he haue the last word I had thought my master had giuen him his Belly ful when hee tolde him that Theomisus should bee his Schoole-master neyther quicke nor dead which speech he would not haue so to bee vnderstood as if Lectures were read to men when they are in their graues Iab The a Pag. 84 example to illustrate the matter though it be not against the Logicke hee got in Paruies yet it would not beseeme the mouth of wisedome to mee it seemes a spice of Blasphemie for him to bring his phrases which hee confesseth are neither in moode nor figure to declare the speech of Christ whose wordes are in number weight and measure Ma. T is true Quot apices tot sententiae Euerie sillâ—ble issuing from the Word of Wisdome is a sentence Yet doth hee not alwayes deliuer his minde in explicite Syllogismes neyther doth moode and figure still attend the most sanctified and industrious penne But if it be blasphemie for a man to bring his own phrases to declare the speech of Christ then is Lyra with the rest of your Cherubicall Expositors to be put in silence and why forsooth it is blasphemie to declare Christs speech by their owne phrases and consequently the Doctor when hee hath reade his Text must come out of the Pulpit and play least in sight right mumme budget making vp the rest with signes and faces for in no hand must hee declare Christs speech with his owne phrases Nick. Did I not tell you that Purgatorie was almost at the last cast When hee hath no other euasion then hee cries Blasphemie VVee maie now sit downe and decline victus throughout all cases Min. Nay it will be to our disaduantage to giue him time to breath let vs rather spurre him this question What sinnes they are which are forgiuen in the world to come Iab They are such as were not b Pag. 77 formally fully and perfectly pardoned in this life for the sinnes that were wholly pardoned in this Life need no Remission in the next Min. See how you are ensnared in your answer Dare you stand to this Then I demaund when you absolue a man vpon his death-bed now giuing vp the Ghost and guiltie of mortall sinnes whether when he is dead can he be suiect to Purgatorie torment or not If he may then is your Priestly absolution no formall remission of sinne euen by your owne ground If he bee not then doe you vtterly quench the fire of Purgatorie for how shall hee bee punished that had his sinnes before formally fully and perfectly remitted You haue no shift except you will say that Sinnes mortall are translated into Sinnes veniall and that eternall punishment belonging vnto mortall sin be changed into temporall which you count proper vnto veniall sinnes But this were to ouerthrow the Law of God which cannot but judge that to be mortall which is mortall and accordingly award punishment eternall Iab Out of c Pag. 79 the former text of Scripture it is gathered clearely that some sinnes are remitted in the World to come but what those sinnes be veniall or mortall likewise the manner of the pardon whether it be according to the sinne or penaltie or both cannot hence bee proued but out of other passages of Gods word these verities are to bee searched Nick. Hee sends you to seeke a needle in a bottle of hay by like hee thinkes you want worke you may doe well to dismisse him to make this search himselfe when hee hath found these verities hee shall haue audience in the meane time let him make a Syllogisme in Celarent Ma. Honest Nick I will owe thee a pound of thankes for an ounce of patience perhaps hee hath somewhat else to say touching the Knights other Logicall assaults Iab Hee d Pag. 78 thinkes to put vs to a plunge by returning our Parologisme as he termeth it vpon vs. Min. Thus e Lett. pag. 34 he disputeth The sinne against the Holy Ghost shall neyther bee forgiuen quoad culpam aut quoad poenam in this World nor in the World to come Ergo according to your Logicall inference the text equally intending both guilt and punishment some mortall sinnes shall be remitted quoad Culpam quoad Poenam in the World to come If you grant this sequel you crosse the position of f Tom. 4. Dis 45 § 1. pag. 557. Suarez who tels vs that the remission of mortall sinnes in the world to come cannot be vnderstood as touching the guilt but in regard of the punishment and consequently display the inualiditie of your owne Collection Nick. Either now or neuer must Iabal shew of what house he comes now one flash my noble spark Hath all thy powder taken wet what not one squib to make a Cracke Iab He returnes arguments as children do stones they are not able well to lift which they let fall on their head or foote Nick. Profoundly answered Iab It is g Pag. 78. not against the doctrine of our Church that some sins are forgiuen in the world to come quoad Culpam poenam both according to the guilt of sinne the guilt of paine Yea Catholique Diuines commonly teach that veniall sinnes are remitted in the next world according to both guilts though of mortall sinnes Suarez saith that Remissio mortalium the remission of mortall sinnes in the next world cannot be vnderstood quoad Culpam according to the sinne but onely quoad paenam according
imployment of your Logical fragments Ma. You giue him this fatherly aduertisment in good time for me thought I heard him very captious about the examples of the Knights ground which he tearmed childish Iab He talkes Å¿ Pag. 82. like a great Doctor when he hath an ignorant reader Is he not a Nody Logician a youÌ„g gamester in that Art that cannot distinguish betwixt praedicatum subiectum but taketh the one for the other The praedicatum in his two propositions is not the same the subiect beeing different as hee saith but the contrary to witte two different praedicates are spoken of the sâ—me subiect The thing spoken is Iudge of those without Iudge of those within which are diuers titles praedicates and properties the thing of which it is spoken is God one and the selfe same subiect on whom both those titles light And seeing Subiectum in a speech is that which goeth before the verbe Praedicatum that which followeth the boyes of Eaton may serue to laugh him out of his witlesse bragging Min. Now doe I beleeue you haue as little Logicke as Diuinity Vnlesse you had a purpose to shew Midas his eares and to be hooted out of your Lions skinne I cannot see what should mooue you thus grossely to bewray your captious folly The Knight propoundeth his proposition as it lyes in the text t 1. Cor. 5.13 Eos qui foris sunt deus iudicabit which hee matcheth with another as true and so placed Eos qui intus sunt Deus iudicabit Now the question is which is the Praedicate and which are the subiects of these two propositions Let them bee Logically reduced as they lye and then they stand thus u Nomen ex pluribus â—ocibus combinatum debet ad vnicam simplicem vocem reduci Ethnici sunt à x Or Subijciuntur iudâ—cio diuino Deo iudicandi Christiani sunt à Deo iudicandi Is not the Praedicate which commeth after the Copula the same in both propositions are not the Subiects which goe before different Is it not spoken as well of those that are without as of those who are within that they are liable to the iudgement of one and the same God The thing spoken is to bee iudged of God which is one selfesame attribute the Subiects of which it is spoken are different viz. those that are without those that are within If Iudging those without Iudging those within be the Praedicates then are you to seeke a Copula Wherefore you should first make your proposition Logicall according to the y Interpretatio facienda est ex dicentis vel serâ—entis primaria intentione Propounders sence before you had passed so rash and childish a Censure I confesse you may by a Cripticall disposition and Grammaticall construction turn the Cat in the panne and change the places which made the Knight adde E contra to the proposall of his ground But the former enunciation as it was directly mentioned by the Knight so is it more z Propria praedicatio est quando superius de suo inferiore enunciatur proper the Iudge being superiour to the thing iudged Besides the Knight did not so much direct his Reader to the placing and marshalling of the words in the Proposition as to their order and reference in Argumentation implying that it is no good consequence to argue thus They that are without shall bee iudged by God Ergo They that are within shall not be iudged by God because both are indifferently a Illud in propositione est verum et naturale Subiectum quod extra propositionem 〈◊〉 ipsa reruÌ„ natura subijcitur subiect to the sentence of that great Iudge whose Iudgement may be most truely spoken of them as comprizing both within the generality of the verge thereof Nick. The Doctour is so studious in the rules of Prudency that he is to seeke euen in the Principles of Logick Many a one talks of Robin-Hood who neuer shot in his bow his meaning is to lead vs ouer hedge and ditch right the wild-goose chace that so by stooping to these trifles wee might loose the sent of the question Doth not my Masters ground exemplified with these instances nullifie your deduction Iab He must take b Pag. 85. 86. to himselfe the Nody he laid vpon our Exposition That must needs bee the meaning of the words which taken away leaueth them in an empty sound void of graue and full sence the speech should be absurd for want of sence or mystery should he expresse a truth in a Disiunctiue speech one clause whereof is sencelesse This superfluity of speech wee take it a great blasphemy in you to suspect in the Doctrine of Christ Min. Wee hold it no superfluity but rather a weighty enforcement of Diuine elegancy Thus when the Euangelist speaking of Christ saith c Mat. 5.2 Aperiens os suum à ocebat eos opening his mouth hee taught them wee may not inferre that a man may speake without opening his mouth or else one clause is idle and sencelesse the setting out of one and the same thing in a diuers phrase giueth a d Tanquam magna profunda sed aperta dicturus Gorran weight to that which is spoken Vbicunque legitur Dominus aperuisse os saith S. e De Serm. domini in monte Augustine inspiciendum est quia magna sunt quae sequuntur Illud diligenter notandum saith f In Psal 1. Bellarmine Consuetudinem Dauidis et aliorum Prophetarum esse vt id ipsum bis repetant ita vt vna pars versiculi sit repetitio explicatio alterius This is diligently to be noted that it is the custome of Dauid and the other Prophets to repeat the same thing twice so that the one part of a verse is the repetition and explication of the other T is an ordinary phrase in the Scripture to say g Psal 72. v. 5. As long as the Sunne and Moone endureth May he hence imagine that therefore the Moone shall endure after the Sunne or shall we taxe the Prophet for a superfluous speech Id ipsum explicat verbis idem significantibus saith Bellarmine of the like Hee expresseth the same thing in other words tending to the same sence So heere when he saith nec in hoc saeculo nec in futuro the words do Rhetorically and Emphatically giue life vnto the assertion in the former verse viz. h Mat. 12.31 Non remittetur it shall not be forgiuen him which this annexed Disiunctiue explayneth to signifie as much as neuer Ma. The Doctor I presume is not ignorant that there were in those dayes not a few highly renowned Saduces who denied the i Act. 23.8 Resurrection and by consequence any after-life Wherefore the addition of the latter part touching the World to come were in no sort to be deemed idle had it only reference to the abating of the courage of these Heretikes who confining their ioyes and sorrowes within the
with the loathsome staines of Heathenish Idolatry If words will carry it wee will roll in our figures as well as you Iab Oh what x Pag. 95. glorious Fathers and Doctors could I name famous in former ages for sanctity and learning that submitted their iudgements to the sayings of the Church Ma. O what a glorious Church were your Antichristian Synagogue did it not dissent from that primitiue purity of doctrine whereunto those famous Doctors and holy Fathers did subscribe then were it insolent madnesse in any to reiect her authority Iab Little y Pag. 96. Iudgement or piety doe you shew in your iest at our Ladies A. B. C as if the authority of the Church were not the Alphabet and Christ-Crosse row in which all Christians ought and all ancient Christians did learne to read and beleeue the Scriptures S. Augustine the Phoenix of wits the Mirrour of learning did hee not learne in this booke Truly saith he I would not belieue the Gospell did not the Churches authority mooue mee vnto it Min. Sooner shal you perswade vs that a foule noysome Stye is a faire princely pallace then that your Romish Seminary is that Church of which S. Augustine spake And yet must that holy Father bee z Non disputas ad idem rightly vnderstood He spekes there of his Introduction to the faith not of the Foundation thereof Being before a Manichy he could not of himselfe haue found the way out of the darknesse of that blind heresy vnlesse the Catholique Church had lent him her hand to conduct him to those Christall streames by the a Ecclesia proposuit Euangelium Euangeliu composuit fidem vertue whereof his eyes were opened and his mynd enlightened He had beene like enough to haue passed by that Liuing fountaine without regard had not their b Causa sine qua non direction who had made triall of the soueraignty therof persuaded him to make his repayre thither for the like successe Wherefore he should haue bene very vngrateful for so irrequitable a benefit had he concealed the meanes whereby that his so great happines was so luckily occasioned What good he receyued from the Church he freely acknowledgeth yet is he not so vniust as to make his requital with the Scriptures c Non dicit Nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas Moueret sed Commoueret wronge Yea so farre is he from subiecting those infallible Oracles to the Iudgement of Men that in the fourth Chapter of the same d Aug. Cont. Epist funda booke he challengeth the Manichyes to produce Scripture for their opinionatiue error with protestation that he would then forsake the name of the Church the Consent of people and Nations and returne vnto them So that howsoeuer the authority of the Church was an allectiue inducement to drawe him to the Ghospell yet was the Ghospell a farre more potent instrument in the founding and setling of the spirituall edifice of his faith vppon the solidity whereof he did principally and most confidently depend Ma. If it had not bene for the tydings of the little e 2. Reg. 5.3 Mayd Naaman had not gone to the Prophet in Samaria by whose praescript he was healed Shall we therefore saye that she had any hand in the curing of his leprosy No doubt her courtesie was not forgotten but the mayne homage and rewarde was offered to the man of God Had it not bene for the f Ioh. 4.42 Woman the Samaritans had not come vnto Christ but they heard him speake before they knew him to be Christ then loe they beleiued not because of her wordes but because themselues had heard him Iab The g Pag 57. Ladies of your Church learne forsooth of the spirit they trust to ipse dixit who will teach them which is the Scripture They are the sheepe of Christ and knowe his voice from that of strangers Theise are your Ministers faire promises Yet I dare giue them my worde though they haue the best spirit that euer possessed any man of your Church notwithstanding they maie erre damnably mistacke Scripture thinck that to be true translation which is indeed erroneous I see h Pag. 98. no remedy for them if they meane to be saued from the Deluge of errours but to fly to the Arke of Noe printed at Venice Your sheepe must learne in an hebrew Grammar to vnderstand their Pastors they must nibble on those rootes of Iury wherewith it would be great pitty your rare Creatures should be troubled Min. As touching our translations of the Bible though they admit a variety of style and phrase yet they concurre in a Sympathizing vnity of matter and sence They all accord in one issue without contradiction they all direct by one and the same waye to one and the same end so that the most vnlearned if he haue not a desire to goe astray cannot tread amisse There being but one choice of truth proposed there is hardly any possibility of being deceiued The Ladyes are not ignorant with what princely Cost and Care that Worke hath bene lately reuised by such graue learned and industrious persons who for knowledge in the originall tongues were best esteemed and for their sincerity least to be suspected Wherefore this hauing past the test of strictest discusse being allowed by the Church and vncontrolled by the most prying and Censorious aduersarie they are assured of the infallible truth thereof By the sweetnes of the fruite they euidently see that it sprang from a sound Roote by the illumination of the i 1. Ioh. 2.20 spirit which leadeth into all trueth by the ministry of the worde of God ratifyed with the k In Euangelijs omnis veritas omnis manifestatio veritatis Origen agreement and explaned with the perspicuous reasons of the Scripture it selfe by the efficacy thereof in captiuating their vnderstandings vnto the diuine will and their carnall affections to the regiment of a supernaturall lawe by often reading which begetteth experience and by hearty prayer which hath a promise of effectuating their zealous desires they are infallibly sure that their translation is true and their vnderstanding agreable to the rule of faith Moreouer the principles of faith with are absolutely and necessarily to be knowne beleiued and practized of all men are there blazed with such a l Aug de doct chris l. 2. c. 9. radiant lustre that without affected ignorance they are obuious to euery eye Though perhaps the genuine interpretation of some places of lesse consequence be sometymes mistaken yet is not the foundation raced so that their error is neither pernicious nor damnable Ma. If our Ladyes thus furnished in their mother tongue hauing no recourse to the hebrew text be in such danger of errour in what a pittifull plight are those creatures who are tyed to their vulgar latin translation which they vnderstand not How shall they trye the spirits of their teachers hauing so crooked a rule which they know not how to
vse May not such a Pilot as Dr. Iabal steere their vessells vpon the rockes and sandes how shall they know that this or that is the sence or Tradition of the Catholique church I see no remedy for them but to fly to Socrates Zozomen Eusebius Theodoret and the other Antiquaries for releife and then they must be well skilled in the tongues Nick. Yf there should be a grammar schoole erected for the feminine gender it would be a braue world Iabal would sue for the Vsher-shipp O how featly would he discipline their Albes There would be Tollo tollis sustuli The Girles will neuer consent to so harsh a motion they had rather speake true english at home then make false latin at Schoole vnder such an yll-faced Tutor Iab Had not m Pag. 58. Luther the first fruites of the protestants spirit Yet he erred most grossely that euen Zuinglius his fellow-witnes against the Pope doth giue this testimony against him Thou Luther doest corrupt the worde of God thou art seene to be a manifest corrupter of the holy Scriptures If he be so corrupt what translation or spirit of your church may your Ladies trust Ma. These are not the first fruites of your witlesse malice neither was Luther the first Coyner of our protestant faith which doth carry the right stampe of the most auncient sacred and primitiue truth Let the Scripture be the arbitrator of his writings then will your slaunder be soone silenced and supprest with shame As he was a man he might be subiect to some particular error which if Zuinglius reproued by warrant of the Scriptures it proceeded from his loue to the truth not out of hatred to his person And haue there not bene worse broyles among your scholasticall Diuines Haue not the positiue Constitutions of former Councells bene repealed by those that succeded Haue not the Popes Decrees bene censured and discarded by their successors Where was your Catholique spirit all that while It is in vaine to looke for a n Foelix qui minimis vrgetur heauen vppon earth Shall the whole fabrick be puld downe because a Wyndowe or a Chimney or a Tyle is misplaced He is a good Architect that leaues nothing to mend Zuinglius his reproofe may informe you that our Church is more deuoted to the Scriptures verity then to the most prime mans authority Iab This is o Pag. 98. 99. the felicity of our Catholike Ladies that by the worde of the Church they know certainlie which is the letter of the scripture Which your Ladyes like stray-sheepe must seeke on the topp of craggy mountaines as the Knight tearmeth the Hebrew language not without eminent daunger of an eternall downefall Nick. Here is a doe with the Ladies falling Yf you were their Gentleman Vsher should they not haue a stout supporter Stand to your tackling good Doctor Iab There is such a Ibid. confusion in your Church that as Irenaeus noted of auncient Heretikes one shall scarce find two that will spell the same sence out of the same wordes Ma. Why hath God giuen such diuersity of guiftes to his Church but that there should be q Quid in diuinis eloquiis largius vberius potuit diuinitus prouideri quam vt eâ—dem verba pluribus inte ligantur modu Aug. de Doct. Chris lib. 3. variety of applications Is not the Kings Daughter in fimbrijs aureis circumamicta r Psal 45.14 varietatibus Clad in a vesture wrought about with diuerse colours If the stuffe be the same t is no great matter though the lace and embrodery be not laid in all alike What contradictions can can you specify in their expositions Iab These foure Å¿ Pag. 99. wordes Hoc est corpus meum contayning not aboue fourteene letters you haue deuised aboue fower times fortie expositions so different as the Authors of the one damne the Fauorers of the other to Hell Ma. A fitt receptacle for all such loud lyars who care not what Crudityes they vomit vppon the bosome of the most eminent and innocent persons without either feare or shame Min. They that are conuersant in the writings of your Catholique Authors know that there is allmost as much difference among them about the three letters of this one sillable Hoc as is amongst the Protestants in the whole sentence Ma. If Mercury himselfe were amongst them with his rodd of truce all his Rhetorique would hardly teach them their t Quid dem quid non dem renuis tu quod iubet alter Concordes Iabal forgets how Leo the second condemned Pope u In Epist ad Imperat. ad fin 6. Synod Honorius for an Heretique Had Zuinglius serued Luthers bookes as Pope x Platina in Sabin Senens lib. 4. pag. 23. Sabinian did the workes of Gregorie his predecessor wee should haue an outcry against fiery spirits then he might more tolerably haue demaunded What shal your poore Ladies do in this combate Iab They may y Pag. 99. rashly perswade themselues that this or that exposition is the best but certaine of any thing they can neuer bee till they admit the Catholike Ladies A.B.C. the Churches authoritie learning of her the sence of whom they tooke the text Nick. When the men of Thessalonica z Act. 17.11 tried the Apostles Doctrine whether it were true or no did they send a Legate to learne the judgement of the Church of Rome Vnto whom did they repaire but vnto a Scrutabantur Scripturas him that had the wordes of life Our Ladies are not so raw in the Scriptures but that if there were such difference amongst our Ministers as you suppose they can take that which doth best agree with the Analogie of Faith and the Rule of Charitie The spirit of God is not so fixed to the Doctors chaire but that it is most free to make euen them of the lowest forme b Super Senes intellexi quia mandata tua quaesiui Psa 119 v. 100. wise vnto saluation Ma. I haue heard a worthie speech of Panormitan often alleaged to this purpose that there is more credit to be giuen to one c Plus credendum viro Laico afferenti Scripturas c. Laick that bringeth Scripture then to a generall Councell representing the vniuersall Church if it haue not the warrant of the word It is not long time since I read how Paphnutius by this meanes preuailed against a whole Synode and stopped the passage of the warrantlesse superstition of single life And not without great reason For if antiquitie be to bee respected or consent to be regarded the Prophets and Apostles haue the superioririe in both Min. Whereas he complaines of confusion and danger of misinterpretation for the magnifying of Tradition he forgets the censure of d Lib. 3. Cap. 2 Irenaeus vpon the prime Heretiques for the same quarrell e Difficilis paucisque conueniens eruditis Aug. aduers Iulian. l. 5. c. 1 Iulian the Pelagian thought by
feast of Easter Supremacy that they complained when Phocas conferred it vppon Boniface It is an incredible happines which you ascribe to the Roman Church that it neuer fell into heresy when as the n 2. Thes 2.7 mystery of iniquity began to worke euen in the age of the Apostles Then was o Iob. Mar. belg pag 441. Petrarch too blame for calling Rome the Whore of Babylon and p Hist pag. 535. Mathew Paris for saying she was a shamelesse common and prostituted whore Did not Marcellinus commit Idolatry in offering sacrifice to Iupiter Did not Pope Liberius fall into Arianisme when Athanasius stood vppon his right feete I am sure you haue heard that Honorius the first was a Monotholite holding that Christ had but one will and one nature Iab The q Pag. 102. sincerity of doctrine as Ruffinus noteth is the cause that the Church of Rome did neuer add any worde or sillable to the Creede but kept the same intire without addition Ma. Then you graunt as much as we craue that those principall Iewells which the Catholique Church prizest most came not out of Roomes Treasury Me thincks you should blush when you name Ruffinus for how haue you degenerated from that auncient Rome who haue not bene ashamed to add not only sillables but more then eleuen articles to the Apostolicall Creede Reckon them vppon your fingers and you shall neither finde the Popes Supremacy nor Purgatory c. which you haue added as poyntes of like necessity to be beleiued Nick. Then haue they litle affinity with the true Church for r Lett. to T. H. pag. 68. she taketh not vppon her to controll the holy Scripture her mother from whome she drew her first breath She openeth not her mouth till her Mother haue deliuered her minde she commeth not of her owne head with a sleeuelesse arrant Iab You ſ Pag 104. describe the Spouse of Christ as a mannerly young mayd brought vp in Luthers schoole You deserue a t Pag. 106. coate with foure sleeues for this Metaphor which maketh the Church Scripture Daughter Nick. Are these the u Praef. Cumaean sopps you promised take heede least you pluck an old house ouer your eares Such liueries best befitt your indigent followers Let him weare your fooles-coate with fower sleeues that is free of your company You may cutt as large a thonge as you list of your owne hide Ma. The Metaphor is sacred and doth not deserue so ridiculous a weede S. Peter vseth it saying that we are borne a newe not of mortall seede but of immortall x 1. Pet. 1.23 Rom. 10.17 by the worde of God I haue begotten you saith S. Paul y 1. Cor. 4.15 by the Ghospell The Church being begotten and gathered by the worde must not stand vppon tearmes of seniority with her progenitor Iab The z Pag. 107. Church of the old testament was some thousand yeares before scripture the Church of the newe testament did flourish many yeares before any Ghospel was written S. Irenaeus a Pag. 106. 107 writeth that many Churches in his time had neuer read any worde of Scripture yet did they flourish by keeping the Tradition of Christian doctrine in their heartes Ma. A man might pose you should he demaund what proofe you haue for your Negatiue that there were no sacred bookes before those fiue written by Moses seeing he mentioneth a b Num. 21.14 Booke of the warres of the Lord and the c Ioshua 10.13 Booke of the Iust what can you shewe to the contrary why those bookes might not be written by some of the Patriarches Doth not St. d Verse 14. Iude alleadge a testimony out of the prophecy of Enoch Min. Let vs not contend with him for this What if we graunt that the vnwritten worde was more auncient the difference was not in the matter but in the manner It was vnto them being ratifyed by the Prophets and confirmed by extraordinary reuelations in the nature of a written worde And when that worde was expressed in visible Caracters Traditions e Mat. 15.3 were of no longer vse As for the Ghospell it was written before the Race of eye-witnesses was extinct what they preached the same things they registred So that it was one and the f Proliteris spiritus Sancti gratiam se illis daturum repromisit Chrisost bom 1. in Mat. same worde by which the Church in all ages hath bene gathered For as g Euseb l. 3. 20. Irenaeus saith of Polycarpus he deliuered those things which he had learned of them who had seene the worde of life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wholy agreable to that which is written The same Father h Irenaeus l. 3. c. 1 also informes vs that the Apostles left in writing to the Church the same Ghospell which they had formerly preached by worde of mouth that it might be a foundation and pillar of our faith yea of that true and liuely saith which the Church hath receiued from them and doth prescribe to her Children As they preached saith S. Hierom. for the confirmation of faith so was it necessary they should write for the confusion of Heretiques Contra insidiosos errores saith S. i In Epist Ioh. 1. tract 2. Augustine voluit Deus ponere firmamentum in Scripturis Seeing then the ayme of Gods spirit in the deliuery of diuine Scripture which is k 2. Tim. 3.15 able to make a man wise vnto Saluation was as Theophilact writeth to preuent haereses pullulaturas what doe they but open a gappe for all heresyes which giue waye to vnwritten vncertayne and vnnecessary Traditions Considera quam sit extremae dementiae saith S. l Hom. 1. in Mat. Chrisostome nos qui primam illam dignitatem perdidimus ne secundo remedio vti velle ad salutem sed coelestia scripta quasi frustrà ac vanè posita dispicere Consider what extreme m Vide Euseb lib. 3. cap. 33. de Papiae Paradoxis traditione fulcitis madnesse it is that wee who haue lost that first dignity of purity should refuse to vse the second remedy for our Saluation by contemning those heauenly writings as if they were giuen in vaine and for no vse Thus in stead of the folly which you obiect S. Chrisostome requites you with the note of no lesse then extreme madnesse Iab Where is the perpetuall n Pag. 104. 105. Virginity of the B. Mother after the sacred birth of the Sonne of God written in the Scripture What is it but à perpetuall tradition of Gods Church S. Augustine saith it cannot be clearly proued out of Scripture that Heretiques returning to the Church should not be rebaptized and yet the Church hath forbidden the same Shall we tearme this prohibition sleeuelesse Ma. The perpetuall Virginity of the blessed Mother is no matter of saluation whether we beleiue it or no. Yet are we of that opinion because as we read not any thing to the
contrary so it sorteth best with her honour who was the Mother of our Sauiour As for rebaptizing of those who were baptized by o Efficacia Sacramenti est ex institutioni ordinansis non ex sanctitate minâ—strantis Baptismus talis est qualâ—s ille iâ— câ—ius potestate datur non qualiâ— percuius ministerium datur Aug. in Ioh. â— Heretiques we rather follow Augustine then Cyprian yet not because he hath taught it but for that as him selfe saith Ex Euangelio profero certa documenta I haue sure p Eph 4.5 proofes out of the Ghospell Yea he pronounceth a q Cont. lit Petil. lib. 3. ca 6. curse vppon all such as teach any thing either of Christ or his Church or any other matter of faith besides that which is receyued from the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures I once heard a Papist exceedingly puzled with a speeck of his to r Ad Max. lib. 3. cap. 14. Maximinus Neque ego Synodum Nicaenam nectu Ariminensem debes tanquam praeiudicaturus afferre Nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione certet Min. Irenaeus Tertullian who had to doe with such refractory Heretiques as either denyed the purity of the Scriptures or traduced the perspicuity of them did both of them appeale to Tradition because they where challenged at that weapon by their aduersaries And by what Compasse did they saile first they proue that alone to be true and authenticall Tradition which was deliuered by Christ to the Apostles and by them to the Church by whome it was successiuely deriued to posterity Secondly they stand for no other Traditions but for the very same articles of faith which were contayned in the written worde Peruse Å¿ Irenae lib. 1. cap. 2.3 lib. 3. cap. 4. Tertul. lib. de praescrip haeret both their seuerall and specificall Enumerations of Traditions which the Church hath successiuely continued and you shall find them to iumpe in all respects with the Apostles Creede T is true they might haue proued them before competent Iudges by the authority of Scripture but as the Case stoode the authority of the Church was thought more preualent and the rather that they might shew the harmony thereof with the holy Scriptures Wherefore if you stand for such Traditions as they vrge it is fit your Bill should passe otherwise you must not take it ill if your Grace be stopt Iab Doe but t Pag. 105. read your learned Author Hierome Zanchius who will giue you a newer tune then that you haue piped vnto vs. That Author teacheth that diuerse vnwritten Traditions concerning Doctrine and Manners are in the Church which are not only profitable but in a manner necessary which we must reuerence and obey else we contemne the authority of the Church which is very displeasing vnto God Your Dr. Feild grauntes that Papists haue good reason to equall their Traditions to the written worde if they can proue any such vnwritten verities Ma. Zanchius meaneth not your Lenten fast your Ecclesiasticall orders of Acolothytes and Exorcists your Purgatory and Prayer for the dead which you will sooner proue to be dreames then Apostolicall Traditions but the very same which Tertullian and Irenaeus haue recorded for such Dr. Feildes If touching the poynt in question carries the sence of an impossible Supposition which we haue reason to suspect till your Purgatory shewe a better pedigree If you can proue this to be one of those vnwritten TraditioÌ„s whereof Zanchius speaketh then we will according to Dr. Feildes aduise not much dissent from your Conclusion till then we must craue pardon Iab The u Pag. 107. places which the Knight alleadgeth to proue the Churches Doctrine in this pointe to be a Sathanicall figment disgracefull vnto the great mercy of God and euacuating the Crosse of Christ are many but either so triuiall and knowne together with the Catholiques aunsweres or else so ridiculously applied wrung and wrested to your purpose that their very sound is able to breake a learned mans head Nick. Then had you neede of a good head-peice to beare off the weight of the blowe whose sound maketh so great a battery Yet if none but learned mens heads be in daunger of breaking your rough-hewen skonce neede feare the lesse Well seeing my Mr. is arrested for bloud-shed he meanes to aunswere the action vpon Bayle And for want of a better Atorney let me craue a Coppy of your Plea Iab Shall x Pag. 108. I make the Analisis of his Rhetoricall arguments They be three Enthymems I thinke The first The Gates of Hell shall not preuaile against the Church ergo there is no Purgatory The second The scule of Christ went downe to the nethermost hell ergo no Purgatory can be found The third Christ bound the strong man and tooke his Fortresse ergo Purgatory must vanish awaye Ma. The argument that once passeth your fingers is not dismissed without a torne fleece but seeing we must take it as you present it let vs heare your exceptions why it should vndergoe so triuiall and ridiculous a censure Iab Can you y Ibid. deny but many of your praedestinate and Elect are for robbing and stealing and other such crimes locked vp in London Gaoles What shall not Hell-gate preuaile against them shal the wal of a prison mew them vp Hath the soule of Christ gone downe into the nether-most Hell made no passage through Newgates Limbo where sometimes your Elect are kept Hath hee bound the strong man that hee should not harme and shall now a Hangman put them to death You perceiue I hope the vanitie of your Inferences Ma. Hee that lookes vpon them through your spectacles may read Absurdity indeed But that you may know the falsenesse of your Glasse by the mishapen Representation which it giueth to so well a proportioned face you must bee aduertised that the Knights argument was neyther so Wide-mouthed nor so Goggle-eyed as the picture which you haue drawne according to your own Idaea to resemble it He speaks of the state of th'elect in the after-world according to the intendement of the Scriptures alleaged you wrest it to their corrections in this life which haue their profitable vse His scope looks to the satisfying of Gods Iustice which Christ hath fully accomplished and not to those Chastisements which are as spurres to driue men to lay hold vpon that all-sufficient Sacrifice at which your Squint-eyed supposition doth glance Min. There are sundrie reasons why the Lord suffereth his Elect to vndergoe those bodily penalties First for the manifestation of his owne Iustice Secondly for their Correction humiliation and amendement that their Spirits may bee saued in the day of the Lord Thirdly for the Caution and Example of others Fourthly for the maintenance of publike tranquillitie and politique Societie