Nay I may truly say that even we Roman Catholicks are much concerned in it and therefore I may be pardoned if I insist upon it because unless this question be resolved all our disputes with Protestants are likely to prove meer beating of the air contentions utterly wandring from the purpose Therefore I may be excused if I take the trouble upon me to resolve it and this I must do not upon Catholick grounds or notions of the phrase being members of a Church but only the notions which Protestants and generally all Sects divided from the Catholicks have entertained of that phrase For Catholicks do not esteem any one a member of the Roman Catholick Church that doth not profess all Doctrines without exception taught by it to be true and submits not to all the Lawes and Ordinances of it There is no distinction to be made as to this matter between Doctrines in themselves Fundamental or non-Fundamental between Lawes in themselves necessary or not because a refusal to accept any one of those Lawes or Doctrines does vertually destroy the Authority of the Church of how little concernment so ever such a Doctrine or Ordinance be in it self There may be differences and even dissentions among Catholicks about points of far greater moment in themselves and yet neither of the parties be in danger of being excluded from the Title of Catholiks or members of the Roman Catholick Church because the Churches Authority has not interposed it self in those disputes either way and therefore is untouched by either 11. But generally all Congregations divided from the Catholick have a quite different conceit of the Phrase being Members of a Church And this conceit is either general or more special According to the general conception of that phrase they acknowledge all to be members of their Church or rather co-members of the Church of Christ that do not teach doctrines or make ordinances excluding all right and interest in the common salvation and thus English protestants esteem themselves members of the Catholick Church and Lutherans of the Calvinists Church and you Presbyterians Independents c. of the English protestant Church because they do not deny a possibility of salvation to one another notwithstanding the differences among them 12. The second and more special notion of the phrase being Members of a Church entertained by all particular Congregations not Catholick does import an external conformity in all Doctrines without exception and all practises determined by each congregation respectively a renunciation of any excluding the refusers from an external communion and participation of the priviledges of that Congregation who notwithstanding may be acknowledged to be almost in as good a condition as to salvation as those are which exclude them from their external Communion Thus Lutherans are not Calvinists though they believe Calvinists may meet them in heaven because they will not admit them to their communion Thus you Presbyterians and Independents c. are no English protestants as long as you are Non-Conformists Let the differences between you be never so small as wearing a Surplice Kneeling at Communion c. if these Ceremonies be established by Lawes Ecclesiastical or Civil the non-submission to them is a manifest dividing from that Church and the less considerable the quarrels are the greater is the guilt of those that publickly dispute or write against that Church of which they desire to be thought members True it is you would seem to have some reason to complain against the English Church if for such trifling differencies only they should pronounce you excommunicated from Christs Mystical Body though they must give me leave to say That by not doing so but acknowledging your Congregations to be members of the Church they do manifestly conclude themselves guilty of Schisme by such a communication with you whom they cannot deny to be Schismaticks But it would be ridiculous in you to accuse them of Tyranny for excluding you from their External Communion when you your selves will not embrace it They do not pretend to an Authority to oblige you in conscience to believe that their Doctrines are true and their Ordinances just but they would be no Church they would renounce all Order if they did not maintain the laws and customes with so great deliberation and after so many disputes with you framed and renewed Where there is no Uniformity even in external matters there is no Church but a Babel If at Communion some should sit others stand others lye along as our Lord did and others kneel if some should be bare-headed others with their hats on would it looke like an assembly of men that served God Therefore complain not but rather thank God and them if they force not your consciences but permit you to abstain from things you do not like and to practice among your selves things you like better But to expect to be acknowledged members of a Church whilst you refuse to submit to the authority of that Church in things of themselves not evil much more whilst you write publickly against them is to desire them not to pretend to the name of a Church Therefore I conclude that you Mr. Bagshaw are no more a member of the English Church then I am and my proofe is this very Preface of your Book that I now write against Your saying that Episcopacy is lawful or your being ordained by Bishops signifies nothing as long as you disobey them you are none of their subjects 13. However I cannot blame you if in despight of English protestants themselves you will needs be called English protestants For if being as really you are no true members of the English Church you were treated as such that is excluded from a participation of the emoluments of it and obliged to a separated exercise of your ill-natur'd Religion two great incommodities would ensue to you and withal two as proportionably great benefits to them and the whole Nation 14. For First What pittiful Congregations would you in a short time appear to be At present your numbers especially in Cities and Towns are not unconsiderable Whereas if being no members of the English Church you were excluded from participating Tithes Benefices and other preferments not at all due to you and had no other maintenance but the Voluntary contributions of your own party you would quickly find that Party weary of you and become rather content to hear a sermon in the Church and wholesome prayers in a Surplice then to pay so much overplus for far worse stuffe in a parlour from a short cloak and no cassack 15. The Second Mortification thence flowing would be yet more intolerable Hitherto the facility of Bishops giving you leave to call your selves English protestants and members of their Church enables you to defile their Churches by doing your own businesse in them to their great prejudice and danger In their pulpits you cry down Ceremonies you preach against their government you sow sedition in the hearts of their flock
set pen to Paper to answer you since if you be never so evidently confuted you are excused from yielding by saying you have said a very little but could have said more and Catholicks are forbidden to yield since they have a world of proofs to demonstrat the Infallibility of the Church far more efficacious then these one or two Texts of Scripture called out by you for your best advantage And even these Texts as they are produced and made use of by Catholicks are unanswerable especially to those that think it reasonable to admit that to be the sence of Scripture which all antiquity has given which all protestants and all reasonable men do They could not foresee that there could arise a Disputant so void of reason as Mr. Bagshaw to whom the whole consent of all Ages of the Church all Councils and Fathers appeared light and inconsiderable if compared with his single reason Therefore till you have proved that Ground demonstratively that is turned sand into a Rock you are not in a capacity either to object or answer 6. And to the end you may set upon such a work to some purpose I pray please to enquire out a Book called Exomologesis or Motives of the Conversion c. where your great Lanista Mr. Chillingworths reasons for such a position are pretended to be answered and in an Appendix to that Book You will find an Examination of the Fundamental Grounds of my Lord Faulklands Discourse on that Subject These are the men you brag of in Your Preface as your great Patrons that is indeed such Protestants as you are that lay such grounds as utterly demolish the whole structure of the English church denying that any Authority upon Earth can oblige any man And this very thing I mean the destruction of the Church of England you Preface your self confesse in your Preface to have Preface been the Design of your small Treatise though written against Papists adding that Nothing can be more unreasonable ib. then this that those Churches or Church-Rulers should Lord it over the Faith or conscientious perswasion of other men who are not certain but they may err and be deceived themselves For that would be to take the Pope's Chair and succeed into his room 7. This therefore having been by your self acknowledged your Design I must repeat what I have already said That the English Bishops and Clergy are far more interessed in your Book for all the Title be only against Catholicks then Catholicks are But as to this horrible position of Yours which utterly destroys all Order and peace Let me tell You that to particular Churches and Church-Rulers if they be members of the Catholick Church infallibility is not at all necessary to make their Doctrines or Orders obliging even in conscience Because all their subjects whilest they remain so are bound I do not say to believe internally but not to contradict their declared Doctrines and to submit to their Orders the refusing of either perhaps not damning but certainly excluding the refusers from an outward communion with that Church So that here you plainly exerto Capite tell the World you are no English protestant though perhaps you would fain have an English Benefice and preach against order in English pulpits 8. Now as for that Great Question of the Infallibility of the Church which You consider only as the conceit of some few Catholicks if You have a mind to write any thing to the purpose to prevent Your mistaking if that be a possible thing give a well-wishing friend leave to informe you in general That there is extant no formal Decision of the Church touching her own infallibility Notwithstanding all Catholicks are bound to acknowledge her to be infallible by a necessary consequence of an essential Article of the Creed Which consequence You may conceive to be thus deduced viz. 9. First it is an Article of our Creed Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam that is I believe one and but One holy Catholick and Apostolick Church By which Article sincerely professed the person declaring himself a Christian signifies a necessity of his being truly a member in Communion with that One Church and consequently renounces all other Congregations and all Ecclesiastical Communion with persons divided from that One Church 10. In the Second Place Your only Guide common sence and reason tells us that a multitude cannot be called One Society except they be joyned and linked together by a Government and Lawes common to all And therefore the whole Catholick Church being indeed one Body as St. Paul sayes and one General Congregation it must necessarily have both general Rulers and Common lawes universally obliging which does not at all hinder but that under and within that general Congregation there may be many distinct Societies enjoying particular Lawes Priviledges and Rulers upon condition they do not contradict nor refuse to submit to the said general Laws Tribunals and Governours 11. Thirdly our Lord having expressly promised to preserve and continue this Church as one Society to the end of the World so as that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it it followes undeniably that he has provided sufficient and efficacious means to preserve this unity for otherwise one Article of the Creed might happen to fail 12. In the fourth place since universal Experience both in Humane and Divine matters testifies that never any Writing Law or Science could yet be so expressed but that being left to the wits enlightned Reason and interests of particular men to descant upon them there would follow differences of sences and interpretations and consequently Divisions and separated interests destructive to unity to provide against which the only possible remedy hath alwaies been acknowledged to be the constituting of an External lasting Authority of Judges and Magistrates Hence it is that the Supreme Tribunal of a General Council has evermore hitherto been confessed by all Christians to be the only preservative against a breach in the universal Church and because it cannot alwaies be possible to summon such an Assembly therefore by way of provision the supreme Pastour of the Church hath alwaies exercised in matters that concern the common Faith and Discipline an Authority if not to decide at least to compose and silence all differences in Opinions c. and to put in Execution the Ordinances of precedent Councils 13. Now if You will discourse to any purpose in opposition to this as I know You have a great Tooth against it You must either demonstrate that there is no need at all that controversies should be composed and Schismes healed Or if You cannot do this You must contradict the Experience of all mankind by shewing that Judges are not necessary to end Law-suites that writings alone with enlightned reason will do the business and especially that above all Lawes and Sciences the Holy Scriptures that are in some places infinitely obscure and in plain places compiled in
preserved the Antient faith and Discipline we shall necessarily be obliged to a Communion with that Church because a separation from it will be a manifest Apostacy and Schism from the most certainly one true Catholick Church and consequently from Christ himself 22. Now that the present Roman Church does at this day profess the very same Doctrines and is governed by the same Laws that were in force in St. Gregories dayes will as seems to us evidently appear both from his Writings the Ecelesiastical Writers since and the Antient English Councils as likewise by the acknowledgment of several learned Protestants To this purpose Doctor Humphreys Humphr Jesuitis in par 2. rat 5. p. 5. 627. writes thus In Ecclesiam verò quid invexerunt Gregorius Augustinus Onus ceraemoniarum c. that is But now what have Gregory and Austin brought into the Church A burden of Ceremonies c. the Archiepiscopal Pall to be used at Solemn Mass Purgatory c. the Oblation of the Holy Host and prayers for the Dead c. Relicks c. Transubstantiation c. new Consecrations of Churches c. To these particulars Carion a Chronologist Carion Chron. l. 4. p. 567. adds the publick Rite of Invocation of Saints a false perswasion concerning a Monastical profession works devised without any precept of God satisfactions vowes c. And whereas saith he Gregory himself did tragically declaim and profess his abhorring the Title of Universal Bishop yet in reality he declared that himself did vehemently desire the thing signified by that Title since he took upon him a commanding power over other Churches To these may be added the Centuriators of Magdeburg Bale c. who mention these and other particular Doctrines as Novelties introduced by St. Gregory 23. Hence if our Adversaries speak truth it will evidently follow that since there are now differences between the Eastern and Western Churches all the alterations and innovations have been made by the Greek Church only 24. Do you not now see Mr Bagshaw what Religion that is the professours whereof you as far as your vote extends expose to the Butchery whence is apparent that if you had been a leader of a party able to execute your cruel intentions in S. Gregories dayes you would like a very Antichrist have laid wast the whole Church of Christ and murdred all that were called by his name There wants only this to crown your zeal that you should cry out Their blood be upon us and upon our children Thus would you have treated S. Augustin and his fellow Monks you I say that the less Charity you have esteem your selves the more perfect Christians and Saints you would have condemn'd to Gallowses quartering of members and burning of bowels those innocent persons that exposed themselves to all incommodities for the salvation of our Country when as our Pagan Ancestors though Slaves of Devils yet treated them with all humanity Take heed they do not rise in judgment against you I am sure in that great Judgment you shall not rise to condemn them for this sin 1. THus Sir I have performed as much as I promised in the beginning and truly I promised more then your Book deserved In which I found so very small a proportion of Reason employed that I may perhaps incur censure for mispending time about a Discourse that would not indanger the misleading of any I must therefore plainly tell the Reader that it was only your passion Your cruelly malicious suggestions that I intended to oppose That is your proper Engin to do mischief with to prevent which a Christian compassion to thousands of innocent peaceable souls whose destruction your passion designes does require all honest mens endeavours and care You acknowledge enlightned reason for your only Principle but I find that which You call by such a name to be nothing else but a restless fancy swelling with self opinion and inflamed with almost all sorts of inordinate passions sharpned against all moderate persons both Protestants and Catholicks that is against all that have any sence of Duty to the King or love of peace among Christians 2. Now as among Protestants You thought fit to single out only two Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike through whose sides You would wound all that are not as furious against peace as your self So among Catholicks likewise there are two my Lord the Earle of Earle of Bristow Fiat Lux Bristow and the Authour of Fiat Lux against whom you have thrust forth a forked sting armed with poyson enough but wanting strength to make that poyson enter I hope his Lordship will pardon a stranger yet an admirer of his most eminent abilities and vertues for taking notice without order from him of your malicious reflexions upon him which might be prejudicial to his Honour were it not that it comes from a person that I am assured he will never dignify with answering 3. You reckon his Lordship in the Catalogue of those who have shewed the vanity and uselessness of Allegations Preface of Authorities of Fathers and Councils c. And because say you it is possible that the example of that Honourable Person may be urged against me since his present practise doth contradict his former principles I will only add this that since his book is not yet answered by himself I hope he thinks it unanswerable and will not long continue in communion with that Church whose foundations he hath so well overthrown An Admirable passage this is fit for no pen but Mr. Bagshaws 4. That his Lordship has not yet publish'd an Answer to a Writing of his own sufficiently confuted by his practise I should rather think you might have imputed to such as your self These are not times for any of his Lordships present perswasion in matters of Religion to multiply unnecessary controversies of that Nature And however your self and your party afford such as his Lordship is business enough to exercise all their abilities prudence and skill in opposing your secret workings and open calumnies by demonstrating that a change in his perswasion about points of faith doth make no change at all in his Fidelity And thus much his Lordship in the name of all Catholicks to your great grief has performed with that sincerity candour and energy that I am confident there is not a Protestant that shall read your infamous aspersions cast upon Catholick Religion touching the matter of Loyalty but will look upon them as the last effects of the desperate rage of one that takes pleasure in mere calumniating without any expectation to be believ'd 5. And truly Sir if you had taken to task the making the World believe that in your Sect Christian Charity is esteemed a mortal sin you could not have better effected your design then by saying as you have done I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable c. For shame change this phrase I hope c. It would have been an impudence not to
and I much fear You will never have the honesty to imitate them 3. Observe one thing I pray You in such Protestations and writings of Roman Catholicks They do not deprecate any former faults committed because they are guiltie of none they protest their clearness from those crimes of a few desperate unhappy monsters and writings of their traiterous Masters that occasioned the severity of Laws against all They do not mention their universal fidelitie to the King these last twentie Years as an obligation or merit for which they expect reward from men but as a necessary duty to which their Religion bound them and which if they had not performed they should have incurred a curse from God Yet all this perhaps will not satisfie You. But see our different Complexion for my part though there were not one of Your supposed Religion but were deeply ingaged in infidelity to the King yet if You would only acknowledg that a fault was committed is repented of and a promise made of Loyalty for the future I should hope well and wish You might be believed and confided in for the future 4. Next as to the Clergy Your accusation Preface is most heavy and punctual when You say I need not plead for the not persecuting of Poperie c. when some that yet professe themselves to be of our Church and those of good note too are not afraid to plead for somthing more then its Toleration Since by telling us in print that the Pope is not Master Thorndike in Weights and Measures Antichrist That Papists are not Idolaters nay by affirming That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with them they not only blemish the vertue and piety of our first Reformers who all built upon that foundation but likewise shew how willing they are upon any termes how wretched and unworthie soever to returne into Egypt and bring us to our Brick and bondage again If this be not the interest of some I cannot imagine what means the crying up of that Great Diana of the Papists the Churches Authority and making that the sole Interpreter of Scripture The Dr. Gunning upon Math. 9. preaching up of Lent and other political Fish daies as Religious Fasts and of Apostolical Institution quite contrary M. Thorndike ut suprà both to express scripture and an Act of Parliament The insinuating that we may lawfully pray for the dead and likewise expect some benefit by their prayers which in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them These with some other opinions of the like nature so far degenerating from our primitive protestancy do shew that if the Age is willing to be deceived there are not wanting learned men who are willing enough to deceive them 5. This authority that You Mr. Bagshaw take upon You to proscribe all protestants that dare not profess such a detestation of Catholick Vnity as Your party does is alone sufficient to demonstrate how much the English Clergy does neglect their own preservation whilst they permit such as You to call your selves protestants and members of their Church your waies and interests being so directry opposed to theirs 6. All England almost has lately heard Archbishop of Canterbury laid to the charge of the late most unjustly murdered Archbishop of Canterbury as the most heavy point of his accusation that he had a desire of restoring England to Catholick unity Yet there was not produced any proof at all that for that end he deserted any necessarie and essential Doctrines of his own Church the mere desire of unity was his crime A crime that he willingly acknowledged and as he had reason joyfullie boasted of And certainly that Christian must needs be full of a Spirit not from heaven that hates unitie quatenus ipsam Now what my Lord Archbishop desired and died for I am perswaded there is scarce any true genuine English protestant but does commend in him and would not refuse occasion being given to imitate him in 7. If you read Bishop Andrews his works both English and Latine You Bishop Andrews will even in his Controversies against Catholicks find a wonderful caution not to aggravate or multiply differences great care to prevent misintelligence and an exactness in stating disputed points with a most studied impartiality very oft with condescendence Nay even in his sermons before the Court in which his heart only spoke as as an Embassadour for God what pangs may one perceive in his soul when he speaks upon this subject and reflects on the aversion that some who like You call themselves protestants have from Catholick peace and Unitie Hearken to this one passage in his first Sermon on Pentecost Who shall make us of one accord High shall his reward be in heaven and happy his remembrance on earth that shall be the means to restore this accord to the Church that once we may keep a true and perfect Pentecost like this here Erant omnes unanimiter It was a restoring of unity that he so much thirsted after which word shewes that he had a respect to the Catholick Church from which only a separation was made 8. And Doctour Steward likewise a person as replenished with learning prudence Doctour Steward and vertue as any of his time he so longed after this unitie that in his last Will he gave order it should be the argument of the Inscription on his Tombe And no doubt there is but such an Inscription would make it lighter that is render his future condition better 9. These wothy persons were indeed English protestants like those You now arraign They knew the true composition of their own Chuch A Church though I must needs say not firmly built yet however erected by advice of persons in Authority persons of honour and judgment not as Geneva Holland and Cromwels Independent Church by a rebellious Army of Tradesmen They knew that at the first framing of the English Church a way was not so wholly given to passion but that when certain interests of a few great persons were complied with and several too justly complained of Gravamina from the Roman Court remedied there might be a possibility of closing again with that Church which they then only so far deserted They knew there was never any intention so to forsake the Roman Church as if it were a Babel or seat of Antichrist but ever acknowledged it a true Church though not so well Reformed On the contrarie they knew and their successors do still to your hearts torment acknowledg that all the Ordination and spiritual Jurisdiction of the English Church is derived from the Roman which therefore must be a true Church if theirs be any 10. Upon such grounds as these no question my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury not only desired as all honest well minded Protestants do but also hoped that if by his authority and skill he could reduce the English church to that primitive State before your
Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
to justify In the year 1651. a devout Italian Friar being appointed to preach in the Great Dome at Padua the Archbishop present and having been informed that among his Auditors there were some English Protestants that in discourse had earnestly objected as you do Idolatry to Catholicks He therefore that he might occur to such a scandal made choice of the Doctrine concerning Images for the subject of a great part of his sermon And when he came to that point holding in his hand a Crucifix he told his hearers That that Image did in one glance lively represent even to the most ignorant beholder our Lord Jesus God and Man and almost all the circumstances of his most bitter and accursed death so patiently and willingly suffered for us Thereupon with great passion and Rhetorick he magnified the Love of our Lord hanging on the Cross earnestly pressing his hearers to return a proportionable Love and Duty to him And during this discourse he often with great reverence and tenderness of affection embraced and devoutly kissed the Crucifix Having said much to this purpose after a little pause he pursued his Discourse telling them he could not believe or suspect that any one that had heard and seen what he had said and done could reasonably imagine that he had any intention to dishonour our Lord by that which he had done to the Crucifix which represented him much less that he adored it as if he thought it a kind of God that he put his trust in it as expecting any good from it as if he knew not what Divinity Vertue or Sanctity was in that carved piece of wood Notwithstanding because he had heard that such a scandalous imputation was by some misperswaded persons laid on the Church he would then and there undeceive them Thereupon he spit upon the Crucifix threw it scornfully to the ground and trampled it under his feet 36. You see Mr. Bagshaw what kind of Idolaters the Papists are Against this Idolatry let us see what express Scripture you can produce This is the great crime for which there can be no expiation but oppressions emprisonments and Gallowses Now if what hath been here said give you no satisfaction in case you have a mind to reply do not practice your old way of snatching a phrase or expression out of a single Authour a Schoolman or Controvertist and making the whole Church answerable for one mans indescretion But search what the Church her self has declared in the Council of Trent and dispute against that as well as you can and be assured you shall either be answered or else told that you are unconquerable IV. VI. That Mr. Bagshaw's whole Discourse against the Churches Infallibility is nothing to the purpose 1. HItherto of your Preface Now I come to your book which truly will afford very little businesse And in grosse concerning your grave Discourse I must tell you That if you would be as merciful to our Estates and our Lives as You are to this our fundamental Doctrine we should find You a a very commodious Adversary For notwithstanding all your blustring You have not given this Doctrine one blow that smarts at all But God bless us from Your Swords and Your Sermons 2. The Title of your book is The great Question about the Infallibility of the Pope and Church of Rome This Question you undertake to determine We are likely to have good stuff in a Book that mistakes the subject to be discoursed on You should not have said The great Question about c. but Two Questions the one a great one about the Infallibility of the Roman Catholick Church which if it be disproved destroys the foundation of that Church the other a very little question about the Popes personal infallibility in which the Church it self is not concerned at all but only Cardinal Bellarmine and a few Writers zealous for that Court. And when you had said this in all reason having a design to triumph over Roman Catholicks you ought not to have said a word about this little trifling unconcerning Question but have bent all your forces against that Great one which was only to the purpose 3. But You very wisely have spent your whole book upon it only though a subject that You your self in your Preface confess is not yet decided in the Schools amongst learned men which is as much as to say no Catholick is obliged to maintain and consequently no Protestant needs trouble himself about it Nay moreover you say the two Councils of Basil and Constance and in your Book the sixth General Council have vertually decided the contrary having preferred the Authority of a Council above the Pope which therefore may reverse his decisions and actually condemned a Pope of Heresie you might have added the seventh and eighth General Councils which ratifyed the same condemnation and to them You might have joyned Pope Agathon the successour of Pope Honorius that was condemned and his Successours Pope Leo the second and the rest till Pope Adrian the second who lived in the time of the eighth Council 4. Why do You write Books Mr. Bagshaw so confessedly to no purpose at all And why do you trouble your self about a subject that the Authour whom you pretend to confute cannot himself believe what ever opinion or suspition he may have of it For no Catholick can be said to believe any thing as a Christian Verity merely upon discourse of Reason or probable deduction from Scripture but only when such a verity appears either expressly contained in the Bible or is formally decided by a General Council or received by unquestionable Tradition of the Church Now it is apparent even out of Bellarmine himself that none of these wayes the Popes Infallibility has been confirmed Nay more Never yet has any Pope declared that himself is Infallible But you are wise in the midst of folly You write out of all danger of being confuted because no body thinks himself touched so that you have an easie and cheap triumph of it Notwithstanding by your own example I do much doubt your Honourable patron by whose command You say You wrote finds not Epist Dedic his expectation answered if he did expect any great matter and I am sure being very knowing and wise he will not believe that as you brag you have killed the Enemy having left no Argument unanswered since evidently you have mistaken your enemies person through your whole book excepting only the two last leaves where obiter and in answer to an Objection supposed to be made by moderate and ingenuous Papists you make an offer to speak de tribus capellis that is the Pope's being infallible not in himself but in and with a Councill which though it be the only matter in question you call only a Conceit of which you will speak a little and you keep your word you say very little and that little to no purpose at all 5. Therefore to what purpose should any Catholick