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A92974 Flagellum flagelli: or Doctor Bastwicks quarters beaten up in two or three Pomeridian exercises, by way of animadversion upon his first booke, intituled, Independency not Gods ordinance. / By J.S. M.A. Published by authoritie. Sadler, John, 1615-1674. 1645 (1645) Wing S276; Thomason E298_25; ESTC R200240 16,323 26

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baptisme fight against the true Baptisme and baptizer the Lord Jesus so that I conceive this Argument were it granted that all the people received Johns Baptisme will stand in little stead to prove the Conclusion viz. That they were made Christians much lesse cast into a Church-mould according to the New Testament forme and least of all that they were all members of one Christian Church at Jerusalem But note an absurdity in the sequell of the discourse where the Doctor having got a multiplying glasse in his hand goes on to make strange discoveries of the increase of Christian Beleevers Pag. 36. he tells us That Christ made many more Disciples and beleevers then John and added daily to the Church that was then in Jerusalem such as should be saved Here 's two Paradoxes First That Christ made more Disciples then John Out of whom should he make them when as John had swept all along with him as you affirme before pag. 32. med. not taking it synecdochically whatever you determine of it here Secondly That Christ should adde daily to the Church that was then in Jerusalem is not this a marvailous anticipation and mistake to apply that which was done by the Disciples after Christs ascension Act. 2. last unto the Ministry of Christ himselfe and yet in the sequell you reckon this to the Apostles also expresly pag. 56. Judge if here be not false Musters And let me tell you you give us occasion shrewdly to suspect your ignorance to say no worse to talke of a Church in Jerusalem besides the Nationall Church of the Jewes in the life-time of our Saviour And thus farre I have taken notice of most of the Materiall Excipienda in your Booke I had thought to have bestowed as much time on the rest but that other Considerations forbad me therefore I shall onely briefly examine the maine Propositions that follow omitting the Amplifications and Collaterall Notions that fall in the handling thereof And so I shall leave this Proposition without taking any further Exceptions to it or any more passages in the asserting of it and the rather because there are and those so able already ingaged in the dispute thereof and come to the second Proposition viz. That all these Congregations and severall Assemblies made up but one Church Which Proposition except the former stand good is to little purpose as the Doctor foreseeing is therefore very briefe in the manifestation of it I shall not therefore be long in the Examination of it though in that little compasse of lines he gives cause of manifold Exceptions For first whereas you say The Brethren themselves acknowledge that all the Beleevers in Jerusalem were all members of that Church If you meane the Church spoken of Act. 15. 4. I deny and say it is a grosse presumption and begging of the Question to say that wee acknowledge all the Beleevers in Jerusalem to be Members of that one ministring Church especially if you reckon all Johns Disciples and Converts to these Beleevers For as there was a good space of time after there were multitudes of Beleevers ere there was such a Church so for any thing hath yet been brought to the contrary it is probable enough that the true Beleevers which were not so many after you have cut off Johns Converts I meane those that did stick in Johns Baptisme which were multitudes and temporary Beleevers which ceased to walke with Christ which were not a few and strangers which did afterwards disperse themselves into severall Countries those that did remaine at Jerusalem did gradually grow up unto Church-fellowship And it amounts to no lesse then the former begging and presumption that which followes viz. That this Proposition is manifest out of the Scripture viz. that they that were convented are said to be added to the Church For what if that be to be understood of the Church Catholick and not a particular Church It may not be denyed that the word Church is often so used in the New Testament and it is suspicious that the three thousand converted at once were not so soone instructed in Church-followship as converted As for that which followes that they continued in the Churches Communion and the Apostles doctrine The Doctor hath moulded the Text for his own advantage and indeed hath falsified it for 't was in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship not in the Churches fellowship except you are content it should be understood in the communion of the Church Catholicke which is no more then in Christian Communion in generall and for ought I know that is all that is meant there And tell me any act wherein the multitude of beleevers did communicate that can bespeake it necessarily to be any more then a Christian Communion in generall or what Christians may have together though not of the same Church and the Doctor himselfe says before The chiefe publique Ordinance they communicated in was preaching To the third Assertion or Branch Pag. 82. which is That the Apostles and Presbyters governed ordered and ruled this Church of Jerusalem consisting of many Congregations and Assemblies by a Common Councell and Presbytery I answer First I am not satisfied by any thing hath been alledged that that Church consisted of many Congregations and Assemblies and that upon the scruples before instanced Secondly In asserting that the Presbyters did rule that Church and ordinarily other Churches whom doe you hit Sure not the Independents as you call them We grant 't is their part to rule but we distinguish between Authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter belongs to the people the other is proper to the Officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church So they i. the Officers ordaine they excommunicate i. pronounce Excommunication they lead and direct in all Government and disputes they have the executive power as you demand pag. 93. But the people have a power and interest too as those places alledged by your selfe shew expresly Act. 15. For tho ver. 2. Paul and Barnabas are said to be sent to the Apostles and Elders only yet ver. 4. they are said to be received of the Church and Apostles and Elders therefore they were sent to the Church also and that word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} with one accord ver. 25. imports a multitude met together and this to be the result of that multitude els it were no great commendation of the resolution that it was convened about and issued forth {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} And though onely the Apostles and Elders are mentioned as coming together to consider of the Question ver. 6. yet it is said ver. 22. that it pleased not onely the Apostles and Elders but the whole Church also therefore the Church also came together to consult or the Apostles and Elders as a Committee first prepared the dispute as not counting it so safe perhaps to admit the weake to the same