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A18100 The ansvvere of Master Isaac Casaubon to the epistle of the most reuerend Cardinall Peron. Translated out of Latin into English. May 18. 1612; Ad epistolam illustr. et reverendiss. Cardinalis Perronii, responsio. English Casaubon, Isaac, 1559-1614. 1612 (1612) STC 4741; ESTC S107683 37,090 54

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illustrious and most reuerend Lord I haue learned as I thinke by vse and experience that there is no euill so great out of which or by occasion whereof some good may not arise And as it is an vsuall speech that honey breedeth gall so it may bee said not vnfitly that somtimes out of pure gall commeth pure honey Not to seeke any further proofe of this the lewd book of that debosht cauiller which gaue me first occasion by his excellent Maiesties commaund of writing to your illustrious Honour it was pure gall and that most virulent But both your letters which vpon that occasion you sent me seasoned with singular courtesie humanitie and prudence witnessing the faire ingenuitie of the author were sweeter to me then any honey Wherefore I was not afraid to shew them vnto his Maiestie and his Maiestie although he approued not of all that was in them for that could not be yet hee refused not but was willing to reade them both It delighted him very much that yet he knew one Diuine of your side a man of chiefe place of honorable estimation and excellent learning which handling the controuersies of these times appeared to be of a moderate and quiet disposition For with what spirit the most are led which now adaies set out bookes of this argument there needs no more sufficient declaration then out of those writers which hitherto haue oppugned his Maiesties Apologie All of them if you except one or two filling their vnhappie leaues with lies reproches and foule language But especially the words in your last letters did delight his Maiestie whose minde is enflamed with the zeale of sincere pietie whereby you seemed to put him in hope that this friendly communication concerning matters of religion was like not to prooue fruitlesse Which thing as it pleased the King marueilously who is readie vpon this condition to vndergoe any paines so if there remaine no hope hereof neither is there any iust cause why his Maiestie or your Honour should trouble your selues Surely I hope if your Worthinesse will take serious care of it that with the helpeof almightie God you may effect by the authoritie which you haue amongst your owne and the report of learning and wit amongst all that by these mutual writings some good profit may redownd to the Church of Iesus Christ As for his most excellent Maiestie of Great Britaine in whose Court I haue now liued a whole veere and more I dare promise you and with all manner of asseueration confirme that he is so affected and that the course of his whole life hath bin so ordered that all men may easily vnderstand there is nothing dearer to him then the carefull endeuour for religion Neither priuate businesse nor the publike cares of his kingdome doe vsually so affect his Maiestie as a kinde of vnmeasurable desire by all meanes to promote religion and which consideration most beseemes so great a King an exceeding affection by all right and honest meanes to procure peace amongst the dissenting members of the Church And this care so fitting a Christian Prince the most pious King hath not confined within the bounds of his owne kingdome though very large but remembring that he is stiled the Defendour of the faith he hath thought good not out of any curiositie but a vehemencie of zeale to extend it beyond the limites of his owne little world that his Maiesties wisedome and authoritie might be beneficiall also to the Churches of other Countries if occasion were offered and that daily it might be more apparant in the sight of God and men that his chiefe care is the preseruation of Christian religion Of late therefore and about the time when I shewed you his last letters his Maiestie gaue this great experiment of this his deuout minde which as it is most worthilie approued and commended here of all good and godly men so I hope most illustrious Cardinall that the knowledge of it will be delightfull to you When the right Honourable and most reuerend Prelate the Lord Archbishop of Canterburie his Grace by letters certified his Maiestie that there came vnto his hands a booke brought out of some part of Germanie or the Low Countries containing doctrine concerning the nature of God which was new peruerse and in some points repugnant to the faith of the Catholike Church and withall desired his Maiestie that for the repressing of this mischiefe which was lately sprung vp hee would shew foorth the zeale of the Defendour of the faith and intercede with the Magistrates of that place where the author liued desiring of them not to suffer so prodigious doctrine to bee brought into their Churches and Vniuersities and that the inuentor of this prophane noueltie might not passe vnpunished the King as he came out of coach after a tedious hunting as soone as hee had receiued the letters and the booke noted and markt in sundrie places by that most vigilant Prelate without any delay thought it a businesse worthie to be taken notice of And although at that time his bodie was faint with exercise and fasting yet what he had begun he went through at once as it were with one continuance and heate of endeuour neither could hee bee entreated by the Nobilitie which stood about him to haue any respect of himselfe vntill after a good long consideration of the whole matter with the right reuerend Bishop of Lichfield and others of the Clergie and a perfect vnderstanding thereof hee most accuratly discharged as much as appertained to him and as piety commanded The booke was condemned and it was determined that all the copies of it should be burnt in London and in both the Vniuersities Which afterwards was performed Letters were immediatly dispatched the King himself dictating vnto his Maiesties Legier there lying to testifie what was the iudgement of the King and the Church of England concerning this new doctrine Withall order was giuen to acquaint the Magistrates with the matter Let them looke to it to whom the care of remouing that euill doth belong what account of their delay they can make vnto the immortall God if which wee hope cannot come to passe neither of their owne accord nor after so notable example they vndergoe the patronage of the truth with lesse zeale and endeuour then they ought His Maiestie at the first receiuing of the newes was so mooued that hee thought hee should commit a grieuous offence if hee gaue any indulgence to his bodie before he had fully performed this office of pietie I doubt not most illustrious Cardinall but you will greatly approue of and praise this deed I haue made relation to you of what was done not to the intent I might commend his Maiestie vnto you but to let you vnderstand how fast he holdeth the ancient faith and how stout and earnest a Defendour he is of the opinions of the true Catholike Church whom notwithstanding most of your Catholikes will not haue to bee accounted and called a
readie at al times as our Sauiour teacheth to scatter tares amongst the good seede And considering in these times wee see with our eyes that this is come to passe and it is so grosse that wee may almost grope it with our hands it is ridiculous and most absurd to dispute whether this thing could heretofore happen or hath now happened Therefore the Church of Rome the Greek Church the Church of Antioch and of Aegypt the Abyssine the Moschouite and many others are members much excelling each other in sinceritie of doctrine and faith yet all members of the Catholike Church whose ioynture in regard of the outward forme was long since broken For which cause his Maiestie doth much wonder when hee considers how some Churches which heretofore were but members of the bodie once entire doe now ingrosse all the right of the whole and appropriate to themselues the name of Catholike excluding from their communion and affirming boldly that they belong not to the Catholike Church whosoeuer doe dissent from them in anything or refuse the yoke of their bondage Neither do you only challenge to your selues this right there are others that do the same For his Maiestie speakes it with griefe there are at this day many priuate Churches which beleeue that they onely are the people peculiar which they call the Church Giue them that strength which the Church of Rome hath and they shall doe the same with her and pronounce of all others as hardly as she doth What shall wee say are there not sundrie sects now adaies which are certainly perswaded that they only haue insight into the Scriptures and as the Poet saith that they only are wise that all others walke like shadowes It is true indeed that in euery age there were conuenticles of sectaries and dissemblies which did boast themselues of the Catholike Church and by this prouocation did allure many vnto them but it is the peculiar and famous calamitie of these latter times that the Catholike Church vnto which of necessitie a man must adhere either really and actually or at the least in will and vow is become lesse manifest then it was of old lesse exposed to the eyes of men more questionable and doubtfull For which cause his excellent Maiestie thinketh that he ought more carefully in such a deluge of variable opinions to betake himselfe to the mountaines of the sacred Scripture and as S. Augustine gaue counsell to the Donatists to seeke the Church of Christ in the words of Christ And so S. Chrysostome both elsewhere and of purpose in his 33. Homilie vpon the Acts of the Apostles handling the question How the true Church might be discerned amongst many Societies which challenge to themselues that name teacheth that there be two meanes of deciding that question first the word of God and secondly antiquitie of doctrine not inuented by any new author but alwaies knowne from the birth and beginning of the Church These two trials the King and Church of England embracing doe auouch that they acknowledge that doctrine onely for true and necessarie to saluation which flowing from the fountaine of sacred Scripture through the consent of the ancient Church as it were a conduit hath been deriued vnto these times Wherefore to make an end of this obseruation his Maiestie answeres that it is faultie many waies and cannot stand with the hypothesis propounded Because saith he the Church of England is so farre from forsaking the ancient Catholike Church which she doth reuerence and admire that she departeth not from the faith of the Church of Rome in any point wherein that Church agreeth with the ancient Catholike If you question the succession of persons behold the names of our Bishops and their continuance from the first without any interruption if the succession of doctrine come make triall let vs haue a free Councell which may not depend vpon the will of one The Church of England is readie to render an account of her faith and by demonstration to euince that the authors of the reformation here had no purpose to erect any new Church as the ignorant and malicious doe cauill but to repaire the ruines of the old according to the best forme and in their iudgement that is best which was deliuered by the Apostles to the Primitiue Church and hath continued in the ages next ensuing His Maiestie grants that his Church hath departed from many points of that doctrine and discipline which the Pope of Rome now stifly defendeth but they doe not thinke this to be a reuolting from the Catholike Church but rather a returning to the ancient Catholike faith which in the Romane Church by new deuices hath been manifoldly and strangely deformed and so a conuersion to Christ the sole Master of his Church Wherefore if any man grounding vpon the doctrine of this obseruation will inferre from it that the Church of England because it reiects some ordinances of the Romane hath therefore departed from the ancient Catholike Church his Maiestie will not grant him this vntill he prooue by sound reasons that all things taught by them of Rome especially those which they will haue to be beleeued as necessarie to saluation were allowed of from the beginning and established by the ancient Catholike Church Now that no man can euer doe this at least neuer yet hath done it his Maiestie and the reuerend Bishops of the English Church doe hold it to be as cleere as when the Sunne shineth at mid-day Lastly his Maiestie thinketh it a great offence to forsake the Church but hee vtterly denieth that hee or his Church are guiltie of this crime For saith his Maiestie we depart not voluntarily but we are driuen away And your Honour well knoweth how many and how excellently learned and godly men for these fiue hundred yeeres at the least haue wished the reformation of the Church both in the head and members What grieuous complaints haue been often heard of worthie Kings and Princes lamenting the estate of the Church in their times But what auailed it for vnto this day we see not any one thing amended of all those which were thought most needfull of reformation Wherefore the Church of England in this separation feareth not any fellowship with the Donatists if the matter be debated by ingenuous men They willingly and without cause left the Catholike Church which at that time the consent of all nations did approue whose doctrine or discipline they could not blame but England being enforced by great necessitie separated her selfe from that Church which innumerable Christian people did not grant to be the true Catholike and vniuersall Church nay more which many of your owne writers haue heretofore ingenuously confessed to haue varied much from the ancient Church in matters of faith and discipline to haue patched many new things to the old and euill to the good which indeed is now better knowne to the vniuersall world then that any man can denie or be ignorant
approue or suffer such things as are now practised and taught For to conclude as long as matters stand thus with you and yet you denie that you haue been the cause of the diuision it were meere doltishnes and follie to imagine any reconciliation amongst the diuided mēbers of the Church The last point in your letters was this that you are able to demonstrate cleerely what good consent there is betwixt the Church of Rome and the seas of the other Patriarches in these points which are now in controuersie But his Maiestie thinketh that you may spare that labour For hee knoweth and so doe others that are desirous to prie into such matters that not the West Church alone but the East also the Churches in the South and North parts of the world haue degenerated farre from the golden sinceritie of former ages and peraduenture further then might seeme possible but that the reuolting from the ancient faith must come to passe of necessitie being foretold by the oracles of God He knoweth also how those nations haue daily heaped ceremonies vpon ceremonies and how for more then these thousand yeeres superstitious men haue been too presumptuous in that kinde But when wee treat of reforming the Church of God the question is not what the East Church or the Moscouites Church doe practise or beleeue but this is the question what the Apostles haue taught from the beginning and what the Catholike Church hath practised in her times and in the ages next following That that is the paterne which the King doth ingenuously and from his heart confesse that he would imitate without all exception Neuerthelesse such as are skilfull in Ecclesiasticall matters they will not grant you this neither that the doctrine of the Romane Church doth agree in all points with that which is taught in the Churches of other Patriarches For to omit your worshipping of Images your fire of Purgatorie your precise obseruation of single life and the infinite power of the Pope euen aboue Councels to say nothing of these and other articles yet it is manifest that in the celebration of the sacred Eucharist the Grecians doe much differ from you Romanes In so much that Marcus the Archbishop of Ephesus speaking of the Romane Masse doth affirme that in matters of greatest moment it is contrarie to the word of God and the ancient Liturgies It is manifestly repugnant saith he to the axpositions and interpretations which wee haue receiued by tradition and to the words of our Lord and to the meaning of those words And of those which defend the Romane rites concerning this matter the same Marcus pronounceth that they deserue to be pitied both in regard of their double ignorance and their profound sottishnesse But thus much is enough for this present Now you haue heard most Illustrious Cardinall the reasons wherefore his excellent Maiestie of great Britaine after the reading of your letters doth neuerthelesse trusting in the mercie of God beleeue and maintaine that he and his Church are Catholike Who if he were not inflamed with an infinit desire of furthering the publique peace or if he supposed that you were otherwaies affected he would haue spared the labour of this answere Especially because his Maiestie calling to minde the daily writings and practises of your men is now as I said before stedfastly perswaded that through their dealings there remaine no meanes or hope of reconciliation For they are resolued to defend all and not to grow better or by the serious reformation of things depraued to winne the mindes of the godly In which resolution as long as they persist and will not yeeld one iot to antiquitie and truth his Maiestie professeth once for all that he regardeth them not neither will hee euer haue any communion with the Church of Rome So his Maiestie humbly prayeth to our Lord Iesus Christ that he would vouchsafe to direct those excellent gifts of minde which he hath plentifully bestowed vpon you to the honour of his name and the benefit of his Church And I humbly take my leaue of your Honour London 9. of Nouember MDCXI Faults escaped Pag. 4. lin 14. reade with no lesse pag. 9. lin 14. for token reade hope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iohn 10. 3. Ephes 3. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Tim. 3. 15 2. Cor. 6. 15 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De Pace Orat. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In Oratione habita in Concil Constantin Apoc. 18. 4. Matth. 5. 14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Non fugimus sed fugamur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 9. 27 Laconicas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iob. 3. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 7. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eccl. 7. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Philip. 2. 7. Mat. 11. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
such chiefe points as are necessarie to saluation For there is but one sauing doctrine there is but one way to heauen They are vnited in coniunction of mindes in true charitie and the duties of charitie especially of mutuall prayers Lastly they are vnited in the communion of one hope and expectation of promised inheritance knowing that before the foundations of the world they were predestinate I speake of the elect to be fellow heires and of the same bodie and partakers of the promise of God in Christ through the Gospell as saith the diuine Apostle Yet his Maiestie addes further that the same Church notwithstanding if any member thereof depart from the rule of faith will more esteeme of the loue of truth then the loue of vnitie He knowes that the supreme lawe in the house of God is the sinceritie of celestiall doctrine which if any man forsake he forsakes Christ which is Truth it selfe hee forsakes the Church which is the pillar and establishment of truth and by this meanes ceaseth to appertaine vnto the body of Christ With such Apostates a true Catholike neither will nor can communicate for what concent betwixt Christ and Belial Wherefore the Church will flie from communion with these and wil say with Greg Nazianzen that disagreement for godlinesse is better then ill affected concord Neither will he doubt if need be to say with the same blessed father that there is a holy contention Now that such a necessarie separation should sometimes be in the Church both wee are taught in other places of holie Scripture and that admonition also of the holie Ghost not without cause giuen to the Church doth openly declare saying Goe out of Babylon my people lest you communicate with her sinnes What that Babylon is whereout the people of God are commanded to depart the King disputes not in this place nor affirmes hee any thing concerning it yet thus much the matter it selfe doth plainly shew that whether some priuate Church be vnderstood in that place by the name of Babylon or the greater part of the whole it was before this a true Church with which the religious might religiously communicate but after it was more depraued the religious are commanded to goe out and to breake off communion Whereby it may be easilie vnderstood that not all communion with those that be called Christians is to bee desired of the faithfull but that only which may stand with the integritie of doctrine reuealed from heauen Now to come neerer to the purpose his Maiestie denies those places of S. Augustine to belong at all to him For he affirmes that all those testimonies doe euince this only that there remaines no token of saluation for them which depart from the faith of the Catholike Church or from communion with the same Church Which thing as I said before the King willingly grants But here his Maiestie desires of you most illustrious Cardinall that you would call to minde and perpend what great difference there is betwixt the times of S. Augustine and these of ours How much the Church now called Catholike differs from the ancient how the face of the Church is changed and the outward forme to say nothing of the inward For then the Church Catholike was like a citie seated vpon an hill which as Christ saith cannot be hid knowne to all conspicuous and certaine whereof no sound minde could make question Which was not as the foolish Donatists prated lying I know not where in the South driuen into some corner of the world but diffused farre and wide thorow the whole earth flourishing vnder the Emperours whose dominion extended from the East to the West and from North to South You might see the Bishops of the East and West daily communicating and when need required assisting one another For that which is written in the Constitutions of Clement that the Catholike Church is the charge of all the Bishops and by that meanes that euery one is an Oecumenicall Bishop we wonder now when we reade it neither can wee beleeue it which then daily practise did shew to be most true and may easily be demonstrated out of historie by infinit examples There were then also in frequent vse literae formate that is demissatie or testimoniall letters by commerce whereof and as it were by tokens communion was held amongst the members of the Church although farre remoued by distance of place Furthermore when it stood in neede they had Councels truly Occumenicall not as since we haue seene Occumenicall in name only but indeed assembled out of some Prouinces of Europe And in those ancient times this was the fastest bond whereby all the members of the Catholike Church were knit together in the ioynture of one bodie which bodie was for that cause very eminent conspicuous and in the faire view of all which no man could chuse but know There was one faith one state one body Catholike frequent mutuall visitation wonderfull consent of all the members a wonderfull sympathie Was any man lapsed by heresie or schisme from the communion of any one Church I speake not of any one of the chiefe which were the seates of the foure Patriarchs but of any one much smaller that man as soone as it was knowne was held to be excluded from the communion of the whole Catholike Church For whereas wee meete with some examples obserued to the contrarie that was not right but vsurpation Was any man bold to corrupt the truth a little by being of another opinion it was easie euen for a child to deprehend him Wherefore such a steale-truth being once discouered all the shepheards of the whole world if need was were raised and were neuer quiet vntill they had rooted out this euill and prouided for the securitie of Christs sheepe By these signes and markes the Church at that time was conspicuous but this happinesse continued not many ages For after that the Empire was ouerturned and the forme of the Common-wealth altered there sprung vp many new states differing as well in manners and language as in ordinances and lawes Then vpon the distraction of the Empire followed the distraction of the Catholike Church and by little and little all those things ceased which had been before of singular vse for the preseruation of vnion and communion in the outward Catholike bodie of the Church From that time the Catholike Church hath not ceased to be for it shall continue euer neither shall the gates of hell at any time preuaile against it seeing it is founded vpon Christ the true rock and vpon the faith of Peter and the rest of the Apostles but it began to be lesse manifest being diuided into many parts which as touching externall communion were quite separated from one another Then which is chiefly to be lamented it came to passe by this dissipation that there was lesse strength in the parts then before in the whole bodie to resist the enemie of mankind who is
Catholike yea many not a Christian His Maiestie at the first thought the strife about those names not to be materiall whilest he held that which was meant by them which his Maiestie desires to doe and fullie trusts in the mercie of God that he doth But because the common sort of men doe thus interpret that to be depriued of such names is all one as to bee depriued of the things vnderstood by those names therefore hee doth not thinke it wisedome to take no notice of this wrong As concerning the name of Christian there is no strife no controuersie betwixt you and him For neither of your Epistles doth deny this title to be due vnto him The question is then concerning the title of Catholike For after that according vnto your excellent eloquence in your first Epistle you had signified that you acknowledged in the King of Great Britaine the perfect and absolute Idea of the greatest Prince in the end you put this exception if vnto the other gifts of his minde the glorious name of Catholike might bee added and when by his Maiesties commandement it was answered that that title could not be denied to him which acknowledged the three Creeds of the Church Catholike and the foure first generall Councels and which beleeued all things that were beleeued as necessarie to saluation in the foure first ages with this answere in your last accurate and subtile letters you appeared not to be so well satisfied Those letters perswade your selfe that they were not read hastily and cursorily for he read them through and examined the waight of your reasons with wonderfull equitie and gentlenes of minde But whereas after the reading of your answere hee departeth not from his former opinion and yet neuerthelesse by the helpe of Gods grace trusteth he is a true Catholike his Maiestie would haue you know what reasons he hath for this resolution Wherefore most illustrious Cardinall receiue this short answere to your last letters which receiuing from his Maiesties owne mouth I was commanded to comprise in words and to send vnto you I will not now request of you that in the reading of these you would vse such equitie as hee did in the reading of yours I know full well your excellent wisedome and moderation worthie of all praise The whole disputation in your last letters consisteth of two parts In the former part are brought fiue reasons which do illustrate and shew the acception of this thesis in what sense you would haue it taken This thesis Catholici appellatio c. The name of Catholike can be denied to none which admits of the three namely the Apostles the Nicene and the Athanasian Creeds and of the foure first generall Councels the Nicene the Constantinopolitane the Ephesine and that of Chalcedon lastly which beleeues all those things that were thought necessarie to be beleeued to saluation in the first foure ages This thesis in the Kings answere hath the place of the maior proposition The second part of your disputation bringeth in foure instances against the hypothesis or assumption THE FIRST OBSERVATION THe name of Catholike doth not simply signifie faith but also a communion with the Catholike Church Therefore the ancients would not haue them called Catholikes which departed from the communion of the Church albeit they retained the same faith For they said there was but one Church Catholike out of which a man might haue the faith and Sacraments but saluation hee could not haue To this purpose you bring many things out of S. Augustine HIS MAIESTIES ANSVVERE TO beleeue the Catholike Church and to beleeue the communion of Saints are set downe in the Apostles Creed distinctly as two diuers things And the former of these two articles seemes to be inserted especially to the end that a difference might bee made betwixt the Iewish Synagogue and the Christian Church Which was not to bee confined within the bounds of one nation as that was but to be scattered farre and wide thorow all the regions of the world Wherefore there is no manifest reason why in the beginning of this obseruation the name of Catholike should be said to signifie communion Indeed these two are very neere ioyned but they are two diuers things as I haue shewed Now his Maiestie beleeues vnfainedlie that there is but one Church of God truly and in name Catholike or vniuersall diffused ouer the whole world out of which he affirmeth also that no saluation is to be hoped for Hee condemneth and detesteth those which either long since or more lately haue either departed from the faith of the Catholike Church and so become heretikes as the Manichies or from communion and so haue become schismatikes as the Donatists against which two sorts of men chiefly al those things were written by S. Augustine which are brought in this obseruation Likewise his Maiestie commends the wisedome of those godly Bishops which in the fourth Councell of Carthage as is here well obserued did adde vnto the forme of examination of Bishops an interrogation concerning this point Neither is the King ignorant that the fathers of the ancient Church did oftentimes many things by way of condescent pro bono pacis as they ysed to say that is for desire of maintaining vnitie and for feare of breaking mutuall communion Whose example he professeth himselfe readie also studiously to imitate and to follow in the steps of those that follow after peace ad aras vsque to the altars that is as farre as he may considering the state of the Church in these daies with the safetie of a good conscience For hee is as much grieued as any man for the distraction of the members of the Church so much abhorred by the holy Fathers and as earnestly desireth to communicate if it were possible with all that are members of the mysticall bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ Neuerthelesse his Maiestie thinketh that he hath most iust cause to dissent from those which simply without any distinction or exception doe perpetually vrge this communion He acknowledgeth it to be very necessarie and one of the proper notes of the Church yet doth not account it for the true forme of the Church and that which the Philosopher calls the essentiall being His Maiestie hath learned by his reading of the holie Scriptures according to the minde of all ancient fathers that the true and essentiall forme of the Church is this that the sheepe of Christ heare the voyce of their shepheard and that the Sacraments be rightly and lawfully administred namely as the Apostles haue giuen example and those which followed neere to the Apostles times Those Churches which are thus instituted they must needes be linked together by a manifold communion They are vnited in Christ their head who is the fountaine of life whereby all live whom the Father hath chosen to be redeemed by his precious blood and to be rewarded with eternall life They are vnited in the vnion of faith and doctrine in