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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
doctrine_n body_n bread_n transubstantiation_n 2,166 5 10.9952 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A64146 An answer to a book entituled An account of the Church Catholike where it was before the Reformation; and whether Rome were or be the Church Catholike. Wherein is proved, that the Catholike Church never was, nor can be distinct from that which is now called, the Church of Rome. By R.T. Esquire. R. T. 1654 (1654) Wing T42; ESTC R221978 68,689 169

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unanimiter_fw-la &_o nobiscum_fw-la conspirat_fw-la basil_n epist_n 293._o here_o you_o see_v the_o whole_a western_a church_n vindicate_v from_o that_o heresy_n which_o doubtless_o s._n hilary_n well_o know_v those_o then_o in_o france_n that_o retain_v their_o ancient_a faith_n keep_v themselves_o within_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a catholic_a church_n from_o who_o communion_n never_o yet_o any_o separate_v but_o schismatic_n and_o heretic_n 34._o the_o n●x●_n father_n of_o the_o church_n that_o i_o m●et_v with_o be_v archbishop_n lawd_n as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o call_v he_o who_o authority_n you_o have_v often_o cite_v which_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o since_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o father_n that_o he_o neither_o liu●d_v nor_o die_v a_o son_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o doctor_n out_o of_o that_o pretend_a arch-bishop_n book_n charge_v ●h●_n church_n of_o rome_n with_o four_o opinion_n ●●pugnant_a to_o th●_n pl●in_a word_n of_o scripture_n viz._n 1._o transubstantiation_n 2_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n 3._o invocation_n of_o saint_n 4._o adoration_n of_o image_n answ_n though_o it_o be_v not_o much_o pertinent_a to_o our_o present_a purpose_n to_o examine_v these_o doctrine_n according_a to_o scripture_n since_o the_o doctor_n conf●ss●s_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n notwithstanding_o her_o error_n be_v a_o tr●●_n church_n and_o a_o member_n of_o the_o one_o catholic_n sect._n 12._o yet_o because_o he_o believe_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v just_o charge_v with_o th●se_a ●nsound_a and_o un-catholike_a doctrine_n as_o ●●_o be_v please_v to_o ca●●_n they_o i_o can_v not_o pass_v they_o by_o but_o shall_v endeavour_v as_o brief_o as_o may_v be_v to_o vindicate_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o that_o foul_a and_o false_a calumny_n 35_o first_n then_o transubstantiation_n according_a to_o the_o roman_a catholic_a doctrine_n be_v a_o true_a and_o real_a change_n of_o the_o total_a substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_z and_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n pronounce_v by_o the_o priest_n into_o the_o true_a real_a and_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n let_v we_o now_o examine_v how_o this_o doctrine_n be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n our_o bless_a saviour_n say_v matth._n 26._o 26_o and_o ma●_n 14._o 22._o this_o be_v my_o body_n and_o this_o be_v my_o blood_n the_o word_n be_v plain_a and_o be_v take_v literal_o must_v necessary_o import_v a_o change_n for_o that_o which_o be_v before_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o our_o saviour_n consecration_n be_v according_a to_o the_o proper_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n the_o very_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n where_o be_v then_o the_o repugnancy_n between_o this_o doctrine_n and_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n christ_n say_v of_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n and_o wine_n this_o be_v my_o body_n and_o this_o be_v my_o blood_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n say_v so_o ●oo_o instead_o then_o of_o a_o repugnancy_n here_o be_v a_o ful●_n consent_n and_o agreement_n between_o the_o plain_a word●_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o th●_n doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n well_o but_o the_o word_n be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v literal_o but_o figurative_o be_v it_o so_o then_o be_v this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n repugnant_a at_o the_o most_o but_o to_o the_o figurative_a sense_n not_o to_o the_o plain_a word_n or_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n but_o to_o come_v close_o if_o the_o doctor_n can_v produce_v any_o one_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o shall_v be_v but_o half_a as_o plain_a for_o the_o metaphorical_a or_o figurative_a sense_n or_o that_o the_o creature_n of_o '_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v not_o real_o and_o substantial_o change_v into_o the_o very_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n after_o consecration_n but_o retain_v their_o former_a nature_n and_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n as_o these_o word_n of_o christ_n be_v for_o such_o a_o change_n i_o will_v then_o for_o my_o part_n give_v the_o cause_n and_o turn_v protesiant_a too_o or_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o doctor_n boughen_n shall_v command_v i_o to_o be_v but_o if_o he_o can_v produce_v any_o such_o text_n as_o most_o certain_o he_o can_v then_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_n and_o not_o that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n 36_o but_o to_o justify_v yourselves_o and_o to_o avoid_v the_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstatiation_n you_o thus_o interpret_v those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n etc._n etc._n viz._n this_o be_v a_o sign_n or_o figure_n of_o my_o body_n but_o what_o scripture_n have_v you_o for_o it_o what_o authority_n what_o catholic_a father_n what_o council_n do_v ever_o give_v that_o interpetation_n of_o those_o word_n i_o confess_v if_o there_o be_v no_o true_a and_o real_a change_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n then_o will_v i_o also_o admit_v of_o that_o interpretation_n for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o such_o change_n then_o of_o necessity_n those_o creature_n of_o br●ad_n and_o wine_n can_v be_v but_o bare_a sign_n and_o figure_n only_o of_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n but_o behold_v god_n providence_n over_o his_o church_n the_o holy_a ghost_n before_o see_v the_o evasion_n and_o shift_n that_o some_o man_n will_v use_v to_o delude_v the_o world_n and_o to_o poison_v the_o church_n with_o their_o heretical_a doctrine_n in_o opposition_n to_o god_n sacred_a truth_n have_v in_o st._n luke_n gospel_n 22._o 19_o 20_o utter_o cut_v you_o off_o even_o from_o that_o very_a gloss_n and_o interpretation_n the_o word_n of_o the_o evangelist_n be_v these_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o be_v the_o cup_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n in_o my_o blood_n which_o cup_n be_v shed_v for_o you_o these_o be_v the_o word_n in_o the_o original_a language_n of_o st._n luke_n gospel_n and_o though_o both_o in_o the_o latin_a and_o english_a translation_n the_o relative_n which_v may_v seem_v to_o refer_v to_o blood_n as_o well_o as_o to_o cup_n yet_o in_o the_o greek_a it_o be_v very_o plain_a that_o it_o must_v refer_v to_o cup._n if_o then_o that_o which_o be_v c●●●ained_v in_o the_o cup_n be_v that_o which_o be_v sh●d_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n how_o can_v it_o be_v wine_n o●_n a_o sign_n or_o figure_n ●●ly_o of_o christ_n blood_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o but_o the_o true_a and_o real_a blood_n of_o christ_n for_o no_o sign_n o●_n sigure_n of_o blood_n but_o christ_n true_a and_o real_a precious_a blood_n be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n i_o will_v endeavour_v to_o make_v this_o doctrine_n appear_v more_o plain_a by_o this_o syllogism_n that_o which_o be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n be_v the_o true_a and_o real_a precious_a blood_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n be_v that_o which_o be_v shed_v for_o the_o fin_n of_o the_o world_n ergo._n that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n be_v the_o true_a and_o real_a precious_a blood_n of_o christ_n the_o major_a proposition_n can_v be_v deny_v without_o blasphemy_n the_o minor_a be_v most_o plain_a by_o the_o word_n of_o the_o text_n and_o therefore_o the_o conclusion_n must_v necessary_o follow_v here_o be_v no_o fallacy_n doctor_n in_o this_o syllogism_n no_o more_o term_n than_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o a_o syllogism_n but_o to_o utter_o debar_v you_o of_o your_o sign_n or_o figure_n i_o argue_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n be_v not_o a_o sign_n or_o figure_n only_o of_o christ_n blood_n but_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n ergo._n that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o cup_n be_v not_o a_o sign_n or_o figure_n only_o of_o christ_n blood_n those_o word_n then_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o be_v the_o cup_n the_o new_a testament_n in_o my_o blood_n can_v admit_v of_o this_o interpretation_n this_o cup_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o my_o blood_n unless_o you_o will_v grant_v that_o a_o bare_a sign_n of_o christ_n blood_n be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n which_o be_v high_a blasphemy_n for_o it_o be_v very_o plain_a by_o the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n that_o the_o very_a cup_n which_o be_v the_o new_a testament_n in_o christ_n blood_n be_v shed_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n wherefore_o that_o cup_n can_v not_o be_v a_o sign_n only_o but_o the_o true_a precious_a blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n wh●t_v say_v you_o doctor_n who_o now_o
this_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n must_v be_v either_o by_o a_o change_n of_o one_o substance_n into_o another_o and_o so_o consequent_o by_o that_o which_o the_o church_n call_v transubstantiation_n and_o then_o you_o will_v not_o accuse_v that_o doctrine_n for_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n or_o else_o by_o consubstantiation_n and_o then_o why_o do_v you_o not_o adore_v it_o and_o why_o do_v you_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o idolatry_n for_o adore_v christ_n wheresover_v he_o be_v corporal_o present_a since_o his_o humanity_n be_v inseparable_o and_o hypostatical_o unite_v to_o his_o divinity_n 40._o let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o eusebius_n emissenus_fw-la say_v invisibilis_fw-la sacerdos_fw-la visibiles_fw-la creaturas_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la svi_fw-la verbo_fw-la svo_fw-la secretâ_fw-la potestate_fw-la convertit_fw-la these_o word_n be_v cite_v out_o of_o the_o author_n by_o gratian._n the_o consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o c._n quia_fw-la corpus_fw-la the_o invisible_a priest_n christ_n convert_v the_o visible_a creature_n into_o the_o substance_n of_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n by_o his_o word_n by_o his_o secret_a power_n how_o can_v transubstantiation_n be_v more_o plain_o exprss_v then_o in_o these_o word_n or_o what_o be_v transubstantiation_n but_o a_o change_n of_o creature_n into_o another_o substance_n many_o more_o testimony_n may_v be_v bring_v both_o from_o the_o ancient_a and_o modern_a father_n in_o confirmation_n of_o this_o doctrine_n which_o to_o avoid_v prolixity_n i_o have_v omit_v 41._o this_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v prove_v as_o it_o have_v be_v both_o by_o scripture_n and_o father_n be_v a_o sufficient_a justification_n of_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n the_o bless_a sacrament_n be_v integral_o as_o well_o as_o essential_o contain_v under_o either_o kind_n which_o be_v the_o second_o doctrine_n repugnant_a as_o you_o say_v to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o where_o be_v it_o say_v in_o scripture_n you_o shall_v not_o administer_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n only_o or_o where_o be_v it_o say_v you_o shall_v administer_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n under_o both_o kind_n if_o any_o such_o precept_n be_v contain_v in_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n why_o have_v it_o never_o yet_o be_v discover_v and_o if_o there_o be_v no_o such_o plain_a precept_n there_o than_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n can_v be_v repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n the_o unlawfulness_n thereof_o c●n_a b●_n but_o at_o the_o most_o deducible_a from_o some_o place_n of_o the_o scripture●_n which_o be_v obscure_a and_o ambiguous_a can_v be_v better_a interpret_v then_o by_o the_o ancient_a and_o universal_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n which_o in_o former_a age_n esteem_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n under_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n a_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o upon_o several_a occasion_n practise_v both_o as_o when_o the_o manichee_n abstain_v from_o wine_n as_o a_o thing_n unlawful_a condemn_v the_o use_n of_o the_o chalice_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n divers_a catholic_a bishop_n in_o opposition_n to_o those_o herctique_n commend_v the_o practice_n of_o communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n and_o afterward_o when_o this_o error_n be_v explode_v and_o a_o contrary_n succeed_v viz._n a_o opinion_n of_o certain_a heretic_n who_o maintain_v the_o necessity_n of_o communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n because_o as_o they_o say_v christ_n be_v not_o whole_o and_o entire_o comtain_v under_o either_o then_o the_o church_n to_o prevent_v a_o far_a schism_n declare_v the_o lawfulness_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n only_o and_o do_v withal_o forbid_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n under_o both_o the_o indifferency_n of_o communicate_v in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n and_o the_o ancient_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o relation_n thereunto_o i_o have_v else_o where_o show_v sect._n 20_o wherefore_o here_o i_o will_v only_o add_v those_o word_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n in_o confirmation_n thereof_o jo._n 6._o 59_o he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o if_o then_o the_o end_n of_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o be_v eternal_a life_n may_v be_v obtain_v by_o eat_v only_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n it_o can_v be_v necessary_a for_o salvation_n to_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n since_o salvation_n may_v be_v obtain_v by_o communicate_v under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n only_o and_o these_o word_n be_v a_o plain_a exposition_n of_o those_o word_n precedent_n so_o often_o allege_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o heretic_n jo._n 6._o 54._o unless_o you_o shall_v eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n you_o shall_v not_o have_v life_n in_o you_o whereby_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o conjunctive_a and_o be_v to_o be_v take_v disjunctive_o for_o or_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 3._o 6._o silver_n and_o gold_n have_v i_o none_o where_o the_o sense_n be_v silver_n or_o gold_n have_v i_o none_o beside_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n be_v entire_o contain_v under_o either_o species_n whosoever_o receive_v his_o body_n must_v also_o receive_v his_o blood_n and_o since_o blood_n be_v proper_o the_o subject_n of_o drink_v not_o of_o eat_v he_o that_o any_o way_n receive_v christ_n blood_n may_v be_v say_v to_o drink_v it_o drinking_z being_z as_o proper_o refer_v to_o the_o subject_n as_o to_o the_o action_n wh●●●fore_o though_o that_o word_n and_o be_v to_o be_v take_v conjunctive_o as_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o be_v it_o sufficient_a to_o communicate_v under_o one_o species_n only_o because_o whosoever_o eat_v christ_n body_n must_v also_o necessary_o drink_v his_o blood_n those_o other_o text_n so_o much_o urge_v by_o protestant_n mat._n 26._o 27._o drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o and_o luc._n 22._o 19_o do_v this_o in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o be_v very_o impertinent_a those_o word_n be_v speak_v to_o the_o apostle_n only_o and_o to_o they_o as_o priest_n and_o bishop_n not_o in_o relation_n to_o the_o sacrament_n only_o but_o to_o the_o sacrifice_n which_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o successor_n the_o priest_n be_v to_o offer_v up_o for_o a_o continual_a commemoration_n of_o christ_n passion_n beside_o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o ou●_n bless_a saviour_n use_v not_o those_o word_n absolute_o do_v this_o in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o but_o only_a when_o he_o give_v his_o body_n under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o when_o he_o administer_v the_o cup_n than_o he_o use_v they_o conditional_o do_v this_o as_o often_o as_o you_o shall_v drink_v in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o 42._o the_o three_o fond_a doctrine_n and_o repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n be_v invocation_n of_o saint_n but_o where_o be_v those_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n i_o have_v read_v the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n yet_o never_o can_v find_v any_o such_o precept_n as_o this_o thou_o shall_v not_o or_o no_o man_n shall_v invocate_v saint_n or_o thou_o shall_v not_o desire_v the_o saint_n to_o offer_v up_o thy_o prayer_n to_o god_n or_o thou_o shall_v not_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n to_o pray_v for_o thou_o and_o if_o no_o such_o precept_n can_v be_v find_v in_o scripture_n in_o plain_a term_n as_o never_o any_o such_o be_v yet_o discover_v there_o then_o doubtless_o this_o doctrine_n be_v not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_a i_o find_v this_o doctrine_n viz._n that_o the_o bless_a saint_n may_v be_v invocate_v very_o probable_o if_o not_o necessary_o deducible_a from_o scripture_n for_o if_o angel_n may_v be_v invocate_v why_o may_v not_o saint_n who_o see_v god_n as_o well_o as_o the_o angel_n and_o be_v in_o the_o same_o state_n of_o bliss_n and_o glory_n with_o those_o bless_a spirit_n but_o that_o the_o angel_n may_v be_v invocate_v be_v most_o plain_a in_o divers_a place_n of_o scripture_n as_o from_o the_o example_n of_o abraham_n gen._n 18._o who_o in_o that_o one_o chapter_n pray_v six_o time_n to_o the_o angel_n of_o lot_n gen._n 19_o of_o jacob_n gen._n 32._o and_o gen._n 48._o 15._o where_o jacob_n bless_v the_o son_n of_o joseph_n after_o he_o have_v invocate_v his_o angel_n guardian_n use_v these_o word_n and_o let_v my_o name_n and_o the_o name_n of_o my_o father_n abraham_n and_o isaac_n be_v invocate_v on_o they_o which_o word_n be_v far_o more_o plain_a for_o invocation_n of_o saint_n than_o any_o place_n of_o scripture_n that_o you_o or_o any_o other_o can_v allege_v can_v make_v against_o it_o and_o
the_o ancient_a catholic_a faith_n so_o that_o in_o k._n edw._n vi_o day_n the_o nation_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v heretical_a but_o the_o church_n be_v even_o at_o that_o time_n catholic_a otherwise_o it_o can_v not_o have_v be_v a_o church_n and_o in_o q._n maryes_fw-mi day_n both_o church_n and_o nation_n be_v catholic_n but_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o ever_o the_o roman_a nation_n much_o less_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v heretical_a since_o their_o first_o conversion_n to_o the_o christian_a faith_n and_o if_o the_o pope_n and_o with_o he_o all_o the_o bishop_n of_o italy_n have_v at_o the_o same_o time_n forsake_v the_o catholic_a faith_n yet_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v still_o have_v retain_v her_o prerogative_n of_o be_v the_o mother_n church_n and_o head_n of_o all_o particular_a church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n may_v have_v forfeit_v all_o his_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n and_o so_o cease_v to_o be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o the_o right_n of_o s._n peter_n chair_n have_v always_o remain_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o since_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o the_o church_n formal_o nor_o the_o church_n formal_o in_o the_o bishop_n the_o church_n can_v formal_o err_v with_o the_o bishop_n neither_o must_v the_o church_n formal_o take_v be_v there_o before_o heretical_a because_o the_o bishop_n thereof_o be_v so_o now_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v do_v with_o this_o ●edious_a and_o frivolous_a argument_n 65._o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n impose_v a_o new_a sense_n on_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v a_o mere_a calumny_n speak_v gratis_o without_o any_o colour_n or_o show_v of_o proof_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o you_o agree_v in_o the_o letter_n not_o in_o the_o exposition_n be_v true_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n follow_v the_o exposition_n of_o the_o universal_a tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o you_o your_o new_a fantastical_a and_o heretical_a exposition_n but_o though_o you_o do_v agree_v with_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o exposition_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o letter_n yet_o can_v you_o not_o be_v excuse_v from_o heresy_n because_o you_o oppose_v other_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o three_o creed_n for_o not_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n to_o be_v believe_v be_v comprehend_v in_o the_o three_o creed_n either_o joint_o or_o several_o 66._o and_o whereas_o you_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o impose_v a_o new_a creed_n of_o pius_n 4._o upon_o the_o church_n against_o a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n i_o answer_v first_o that_o which_o you_o mean_v be_v but_o a_o profession_n of_o faith_n wherein_o be_v contain_v certain_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v not_o express_o comprehend_v in_o the_o creed_n it_o can_v no_o more_o proper_o be_v call_v a_o creed_n than_o your_o book_n of_o article_n which_o be_v your_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o as_o not_o all_o but_o some_o certain_a person_n only_o among_o you_o be_v bind_v by_o your_o statute_n to_o subscribe_v to_o that_o profession_n so_o likewise_o not_o every_o man_n but_o some_o certain_a person_n only_o be_v bind_v to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o other_o second_o that_o profession_n be_v agree_v upon_o by_o the_o whole_a council_n and_o confirm_v by_o pope_n pius_n 4._o it_o be_v neither_o compose_v nor_o command_v by_o the_o pope_n alone_o but_o by_o he_o joint_o wi●h_v the_o council_n three_o there_o be_v not_o one_o article_n of_o that_o profession_n contrary_a or_o repugnant_a to_o any_o one_o article_n of_o the_o former_a creed_n and_o although_o this_o have_v be_v a_o new_a creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o yet_o have_v it_o not_o be_v against_o any_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n that_o council_n at_o the_o most_o for_o bid_v only_o private_a person_n to_o set_v forth_o or_o publish_v any_o creed_n that_o shall_v contain_v in_o it_o any_o doctrine_n contrary_a to_o any_o article_n of_o belief_n in_o those_o former_a creed_n neither_o indeed_o can_v the_o church_n in_o the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n debar_v the_o church_n in_o future_a age_n of_o that_o power_n and_o authority_n which_o the_o church_n in_o former_a age_n assume_v and_o exercise_v why_o shall_v it_o be_v more_o unlawful_a for_o the_o church_n assemble_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n to_o set_v forth_o a_o new_a form_n of_o profession_n of_o faith_n than_o it_o be_v for_o the_o church_n assemble_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a or_o constantinople_n no_o council_n can_v rob_v the_o church_n of_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v she_o and_o by_o this_o profession_n of_o faith_n the_o roman_a church_n have_v neither_o alter_v the_o letter_n nor_o sense_n of_o former_a creed_n though_o you_o dare_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v she_o have_v strange_o alter_v the_o sense_n i_o confess_v you_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v any_o thing_n but_o you_o have_v prove_v nothing_o 67._o and_o whereas_o you_o say_v you_o take_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o literal_a sense_n let_v we_o see_v to_o give_v but_o one_o instance_n since_o you_o make_v scripture_n the_o sole_a rule_n of_o your_o faith_n whether_o you_o take_v those_o word_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n mat._n 26._o 26._o mar._n 14._o 22._o and_o luc._n 22._o 19_o in_o the_o literal_a sense_n our_o b_o saviour_n there_o take_v bread_n and_o wine_n and_o say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n which_o be_v give_v or_o break_v for_o you_o this_o be_v my_o blood_n which_o be_v shed_v for_o you_o which_o you_o thus_o interpret_v this_o be_v a_o sign_n only_o of_o my_o body_n and_o this_o be_v a_o sign_n only_o of_o my_o blood_n you_o deny_v that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o our_o b._n saviour_n take_v and_o blessed_v be_v true_o and_o substantial_o convert_v into_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n and_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o say_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n let_v all_o the_o world_n judge_v whether_o herein_o you_o take_v the_o rule●_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o literal_a sense_n it_o be_v much_o more_o plain_a that_o you_o go_v against_o the_o very_a letter_n of_o the_o gospel_n against_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n both_o greek_a and_o latin_a the_o declaration_n of_o counsel_n the_o ancient_a and_o universal_a practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o always_o adore_v the_o b._n sacrament_n after_o consecration_n with_o divine_a worship_n 68_o in_o sect._n 29._o i_o meet_v with_o another_o absurd_a and_o impertinent_a distinction_n between_o error_n in_o faith_n and_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n as_o if_o error_n in_o faith_n and_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o all_o one_o they_o have_v hitherto_o be_v esteem_v all_o one_o and_o that_o by_o those_o who_o have_v be_v far_o beyond_o you_o both_o in_o learning_n and_o judgement_n though_o your_o sharp_a understanding_n be_v able_a to_o divide_v and_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o they_o 69._o much_o like_a to_o this_o be_v that_o say_n of_o you_o sect._n 30._o every_o violation_n of_o the_o faith_n cut_v not_o off_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o a_o false_a opinion_n of_o god_n do_v how_o then_o be_v that_o of_o s._n paul_n true_a heb._n 11._o 6._o without_o faith_n it_o be_v impossible_a to_o please_v god_n can_v a_o man_n violate_v faith_n though_o but_o in_o some_o one_o point_n and_o yet_o be_v a_o catholic_a who_o ever_o think_v so_o beside_o your_o ●elf_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n one_o and_o the_o same_o man_n may_v be_v at_o the_o same_o time_n both_o catholic_a and_o heretic_n but_o to_o prove_v your_o new_a opinion_n you_o produce_v a_o ancient_a testimony_n of_o s._n augustine_n the_o fid_fw-we &_o symb._n c._n 20._o haereti●i_fw-fr de_fw-fr deo_fw-la falsa_fw-la sentiendo_fw-la ipsam_fw-la fidem_fw-la violent_fw-la quapropter_fw-la non_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la heretic_n by_o have_v a_o false_a opinion_n of_o god_n violate_v faith_n itself_o wherefore_o they_o belong_v not_o to_o the_o catholic_a church_n answ_n here_o be_v now_o a_o fine_a proof_n if_o well_o examine_v you_o must_v know_v doctor_n that_o the_o word_n quapropter_fw-la wherefore_o refer_v to_o the_o word_n immediate_o go_v before_o and_o then_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o this_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n make_v direct_o against_o you_o for_o if_o man_n be_v therefore_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n because_o they_o have_v violate_v the_o faith_n than_o it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o every_o violation_n of_o faith_n cut_v a_o man_n off_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o in_o favour_n to_o the_o doctor_n let_v we_o once_o grant_v against_o all_o
over_o all_o the_o part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n and_o as_o be_v the_o great_a metropolitan_a of_o the_o world_n infuse_v unity_n into_o all_o particular_a church_n and_o christian_n she_o be_v in_o this_o her_o large_a amplitude_n proper_o and_o true_o call_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o because_o the_o catholic_a church_n can_v fall_v into_o any_o error_n in_o faith_n or_o any_o other_o damnable_a error_n whatsoever_o nor_o teach_v doctrine_n superstitious_a sacrilegious_a or_o repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n because_o she_o be_v and_o ever_o shall_v be_v guide_v by_o god_n holy_a spirit_n which_o hitherto_o have_v and_o ever_o shall_v lead_v she_o into_o all_o truth_n therefore_o it_o can_v be_v true_o say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v this_o catholic_a church_n ever_o be_v or_o can_v be_v guilty_a of_o error_n in_o faith_n or_o of_o superstitious_a sacrilegious_a or_o any_o damnable_a doctrine_n whatsoever_o 73._o beside_o when_o luther_n first_o for_o sook_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v he_o not_o stand_v alone_o be_v he_o not_o divide_v from_o the_o world_n even_o from_o those_o that_o be_v not_o in_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o well_o as_o from_o those_o that_o be_v do_v he_o communicate_v in_o the_o sacrament_n or_o external_a worship_n with_o any_o particular_a church_n congregation_n people_n nation_n or_o sect_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n can_v any_o man_n separate_v himself_o from_o that_o church_n in_o who_o communion_n he_o once_o live_v who_o faith_n and_o doctrine_n he_o embrace_v and_o join_v himself_o to_o no_o other_o congregation_n in_o the_o whole_a world_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n either_o in_o doctrine_n or_o external_a communion_n and_o yet_o be_v no_o schismatique_a if_o so_o then_o there_o never_o be_v or_o can_v be_v any_o schism_n if_o then_o luther_n be_v schismatical_a in_o be_v divide_v from_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n in_o faith_n and_o communion_n it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o all_o those_o who_o first_o adhere_v to_o he_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o that_o church_n whereof_o they_o have_v former_o be_v member_n and_o all_o those_o who_o have_v since_o follow_v luther_n and_o have_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o any_o church_n or_o christian_a congregation_n whatsoever_o beside_o themselves_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o the_o same_o schism_n how_o then_o be_v it_o possible_a for_o you_o to_o avoid_v the_o guilt_n of_o schism_n since_o you_o have_v forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o who_o you_o once_o communicate_v as_o you_o confess_v sect._n 19_o and_o have_v not_o join_v yourselves_o to_o any_o other_o christian_a congregation_n whatsoever_o you_o abhor_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o which_o you_o call_v the_o greek_a church_n abhor_v you_o will_v you_o say_v that_o the_o protestant_n be_v the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n then_o you_o contradict_v yourself_o who_o grant_v sect._n 12._o that_o rome_n herself_o be_v a_o church_n a_o member_n of_o the_o one_o catholic_n you_o must_v also_o then_o confess_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o you_o call_v it_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v you_o have_v good_a reason_n so_o to_o do_v since_o she_o refuse_v to_o receive_v you_o into_o her_o communion_n abhor_v and_o detest_a your_o new_a doctrine_n as_o heretical_a if_o then_o all_o those_o of_o the_o protestant_a sect_n be_v schismatical_a as_o it_o most_o plain_o appear_v they_o be_v certain_o the_o protestant_n of_o england_n must_v necessary_o be_v involve_v in_o the_o same_o schism_n 74._o let_v we_o now_o see_v how_o you_o can_v vindicate_v yourselves_o from_o heresy_n i_o will_v not_o look_v beyond_o those_o four_o doctrine_n wherewith_o you_o have_v charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o be_v fond_a sacrilegious_a and_o repugnant_a to_o plain_a word_n of_o scripture_n viz._n transubstantiation_n administration_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n invocation_n of_o saint_n adoration_n of_o image_n and_o by_o your_o oppose_v these_o doctrine_n as_o they_o be_v hold_v and_o teach_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o make_v it_o appear_v to_o the_o world_n that_o you_o can_v avoid_v the_o just_a imputation_n of_o heresy_n first_o then_o i_o demand_v whether_o the_o father_n assemble_v in_o the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n be_v not_o competent_a and_o lawful_a judge_n of_o the_o heresy_n of_o those_o time_n as_o the_o arrian_n macedonian_a nestorian_a eutychian_a etc._n etc._n and_o whether_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o condemn_v those_o heresy_n and_o to_o anathematise_v those_o that_o hold_v and_o teach_v they_o as_o heretic_n if_o they_o have_v no_o such_o power_n than_o do_v they_o most_o injurious_o and_o tyrannical_o usurp_v a_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n which_o of_o right_n belong_v not_o unto_o they_o but_o this_o can_v be_v prudent_o suppose_v that_o so_o many_o holy_a reverend_a and_o learned_a father_n shall_v usurp_v a_o authority_n or_o arrogate_v to_o themselves_o that_o power_n which_o be_v not_o lawful_o derive_v upon_o they_o by_o christ_n and_o his_o holy_a church_n they_o be_v the_o select_a pastor_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n man_n renown_v for_o their_o piety_n and_o learning_n and_o can_v not_o therefore_o be_v ignorant_a how_o far_o the_o jurisdiction_n and_o authority_n of_o a_o lawful_a council_n may_v extend_v neither_o will_v their_o piety_n suffer_v they_o to_o transgress_v the_o limit_n of_o that_o authority_n if_o then_o those_o four_o first_o counsel_n have_v power_n to_o judge_n of_o and_o to_o declare_v and_o define_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o to_o anathematise_v all_o those_o that_o shall_v oppose_v they_o how_o come_v the_o counsel_n in_o succeee_a age_n to_o be_v deprive_v of_o this_o power_n how_o come_v the_o church_n to_o lose_v that_o authority_n wherewith_o she_o be_v once_o invest_v be_v her_o power_n but_o temporary_a and_o after_o some_o few_o age_n to_o expire_v or_o do_v christ_n foresee_v tha●_n after_o some_o few_o age_n his_o church_n will_v be_v no_o more_o infest_a with_o schismatic_n or_o heretic_n but_o we_o plain_o find_v that_o such_o have_v molest_v the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n and_o therefore_o doubtless_o in_o all_o age_n have_v this_o power_n continue_v in_o the_o church_n and_o if_o so_o why_o be_v it_o not_o as_o lawful_a for_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o be_v hold_v above_o 800._o year_n since_o to_o judge_n and_o define_v what_o reverence_n and_o honour_n be_v due_a to_o holy_a image_n and_o to_o condemn_v the_o iconoclast_n or_o image-breaker_n as_o it_o be_v for_o the_o former_a counsel_n to_o condemn_v the_o arrian_n nestorian_n &_o c_o and_o why_o be_v it_o not_o as_o lawful_a for_o that_o great_a and_o glorious_a council_n of_o lateran_n wherein_o be_v present_v both_o the_o patriarch_n of_o constantinople_n and_o jerusalem_n to_o judge_n of_o and_o declare_v the_o true_a real_a and_o substantial_a conversion_n of_o the_o creature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o consecration_n into_o the_o true_a and_o real_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o declare_v the_o manner_n of_o that_o conversion_n as_o also_o to_o express_v the_o ancient_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o proper_a signification_n of_o a_o new_a word_n transubstantiation_n as_o it_o be_v for_o the_o first_o general_n council_n of_o nice_a to_o judge_n of_o and_o declare_v christ_n consubstantiality_n with_o the_o father_n and_o to_o invent_v that_o new_a word_n to_o express_v the_o ancient_a doctrine_n descend_v unto_o they_o by_o universal_a and_o in_o fallible_a tradition_n of_o christ_n coeternal_a and_o coequal_a divinity_n with_o the_o father_n you_o will_v find_v in_o vincentius_n lyrinesis_n c._n 32._o that_o it_o be_v no_o 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act._n 16._o 18._o but_o the_o doctor_n be_v much_o scandalize_v at_o the_o maim_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n so_o that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o cause_n then_o that_o he_o can_v not_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n sect._n 11._o it_o seem_v doctor_n boughen_n can_v content_v himself_o with_o that_o wherewith_o the_o good_a primitive_a christian_n be_v all_o satisfy_v they_o can_v be_v content_v to_o carry_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o their_o house_n and_o reserve_v it_o there_o for_o time_n of_o necessity_n under_o one_o species_n they_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o minister_v it_o to_o their_o sick_a under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n only_o to_o their_o child_n when_o that_o by_o some_o be_v think_v necessary_a under_o the_o species_n of_o wine_n only_o but_o the_o doctor_n will_v have_v both_o or_o none_o none_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n nor_o the_o most_o learned_a of_o all_o the_o primitive_a christian_n can_v ever_o find_v it_o in_o 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the_o protestant_n all_o these_o i_o purposely_o pass_v by_o because_o i_o will_v contain_v myself_o within_o the_o first_o five_o hundred_o year_n to_o which_o you_o have_v appeal_v you_o see_v then_o doctor_z the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n within_o five_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n birth_n in_o the_o father_n and_o counsel_n abovecited_a be_v now_o as_o good_a as_o your_o word_n submit_v to_o their_o sentence_n for_o trial_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o religion_n and_o you_o will_v by_o god_n grace_n soon_o return_v to_o your_o mother_n the_o roman_a catholic_a church_n thus_o be_v that_o charge_n which_o you_o say_v sect._n 28._o of_o your_o second_o answer_n we_o know_v not_o how_o to_o shift_v off_o full_o answer_v 45._o in_o the_o next_o sect._n 25._o i_o meet_v with_o some_o authority_n against_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n the_o first_o be_v of_o s._n irenaeus_n who_o sharp_o check_v and_o reprove_v bishop_n victor_n for_o 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stephen_n teipsum_fw-la excidisti_fw-la noli_fw-la te_fw-la fallere_fw-la mistake_v no●_n thyself_o thou_o bishop_n of_o rome_n while_o thou_o go●st_v about_o to_o cast_v out_o other_o by_o this_o presumption_n thou_o have_v cast_v off_o thyself_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v his_o church_n ans_fw-fr by_o your_o leave_n doctor_z you_o misunderstand_v firmilianus_n he_o speak_v not_o as_o you_o will_v have_v he_o indeed_o he_o be_v very_o angry_a with_o pope_n stephen_n because_o he_o excommunicate_v he_o for_o maintain_v that_o heretical_a doctrine_n of_o rebaptise_v heretic_n he_o never_o tell_v pope_n stephen_n that_o he_o have_v cut_v himself_o off_o from_o the_o church_n because_o he_o excommunicate_v firmilianus_n or_o any_o other_o bishop●_n but_o he_o be_v willing_a the_o world_n shall_v think_v that_o pope_n stephen_n in_o defend_v the_o baptism_n of_o heretic_n to_o be_v lawful_a have_v side_v with_o they_o in_o their_o heresy_n and_o have_v therefore_o cut_v himself_o off_o from_o the_o church_n not_o because_o he_o have_v excommunicate_v any_o heretical_a bishop_n of_o the_o east_n but_o because_o as_o firmilianus_n conceive_v he_o too_o much_o comply_v with_o heretic_n and_o you_o know_v doctor_n the_o very_a same_o doctrine_n for_o which_o firmilianus_n be_v excommunicate_v be_v afterward_o in_o the_o first_o general_n council_n of_o nice_a declare_v to_o b●_n heretical_a 46._o it_o be_v common_a say_v you_o in_o these_o day_n even_o with_o t●●se_n that_o conscientious_o pretend_v to_o truth_n not_o to_o be_v content_a with_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n wh●●●●as_v once_o deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o 〈◊〉_d from_o they_o by_o the_o primitive_a 〈…〉_o transmit_v ●o_o posterity_n bu●_n 〈…〉_o after_o n●w_a invention_n 〈…〉_o ●hese_fw-mi course_n i_o abhor_v with_o a_o 〈…〉_o ans_fw-fr here_o d●ctor_n you_o have_v direct_o give_v sentence_n against_o yourself_o if_o you_o will_v but_o examine_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o your_o doctrine_n wherein_o you_o oppose_v and_o differ_v from_o she_o but_o according_a to_o s._n augustine_n rule_n the_o baptis_n li._n 2._o c._n 23._o and_o the_o principle_n of_o common_a reason_n you_o will_v soon_o discover_v which_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n receive_v from_o they_o by_o the_o primitive_a church_n &_o so_o transmit_v to_o posterity_n and_o which_o be_v those_o new_a invention_n for_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o either_o you_o or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n can_v show_v or_o prove_v that_o any_o one_o doctrine_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n at_o this_o day_n maintain_v and_o teach_v have_v its_o beginning_n or_o creep_v into_o the_o church_n since_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n whereas_o on_o the_o contrary_a there_o be_v not_o one_o doctrine_n wherein_o you_o differ_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o may_v be_v and_o have_v be_v often_o already_o prove_v and_o demonstrate_v to_o have_v begin_v since_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n how_o then_o do_v you_o abhor_v with_o a_o perfect_a hatred_n these_o course_n since_o you_o have_v embrace_v new_a invention_n and_o total_o forsake_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n receive_v from_o they_o by_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o transmit_v to_o posterity_n if_o it_o can_v be_v clear_o demonstrate_v that_o all_o your_o doctrine_n wherein_o you_o differ_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v new_a and_o if_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o any_o one_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v its_o beginning_n since_o the_o apostle_n either_o you_o abhor_v not_o these_o course_n with_o a_o perfect_a hatred_n as_o you_o profess_v or_o else_o you_o must_v in_o all_o point_n embrace_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n 47._o but_o stay_v here_o i_o meet_v with_o a_o brace_n of_o fierce_a syllogism_n that_o fly_v furious_o at_o the_o very_a throat_n of_o the_o poor_a church_n of_o rome_n the_o first_o be_v this_o that_o church_n which_o have_v err_v be_v not_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n the_o minor_a be_v thus_o prove_v by_o the_o second_o syllogism_n that_o church_n which_o have_v profess_v montanism_n arrianism_n eutychianism_n have_v err_v but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v profess_v all_o these_o ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v and_o this_o minor_a you_o say_v you_o have_v sufficient_o prove_v sect._n 18._o 27._o but_o i_o have_v more_o sufficient_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v there_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o but_o be_v force_v to_o fly_v to_o most_o ridiculous_a shift_n and_o fallacy_n and_o those_o fallacy_n i_o meet_v with_o here_o again_o sect._n 3●_n where_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v charge_v with_o all_o sin_n almost_o imagineable_a and_o divers_a author_n be_v cite_v to_o prove_v that_o
answer_v sect._n 28._o yet_o i_o have_v think_v fit_a to_o make_v this_o further_a examination_n of_o it_o to_o the_o question_n then_o where_o be_v your_o church_n before_o luther_n d._n lawd_n answer_v where_o we_o be_v now_o answ_n if_o by_o we_o he_o mean_v the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n i_o must_v confess_v his_o answer_n to_o be_v true_a for_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o part_n or_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a catholic_a church_n and_o so_o be_v you_o before_o luther_n but_o with_o he_o you_o have_v apostatise_v and_o be_v fall_v into_o schism_n and_o he_o resie_n and_o instead_o of_o a_o church_n you_o be_v become_v a_o heretical_a and_o schismatical_a congregation_n luther_n forsake_v the_o whole_a church_n and_o those_o that_o soon_o after_o his_o apostasy_n adhere_v to_o his_o heresy_n follow_v he_o also_o in_o his_o apostasy_n they_o have_v be_v all_o member_n of_o that_o church_n which_o luther_n have_v forsake_v but_o this_o you_o will_v say_v be_v no_o separation_n but_o a_o reformation_n for_o that_o d._n lawd_n drive_v at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n still_o say_v he_o one_o in_o substance_n but_o not_o one_o in_o condition_n of_o state_n and_o purity_n your_o part_n of_o the_o same_o church_n by_o your_o part_n he_o mean_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n remain_v in_o corruption_n and_o our_o part_n of_o the_o same_o church_n under_o reformation_n good_a god_n how_o can_v any_o society_n of_o man_n profess_v themselves_o christian_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n and_o that_o in_o substante_fw-la with_o that_o from_o which_o they_o separate_v both_o in_o faith_n and_o communion_n or_o what_o can_v be_v a_o separation_n if_o this_o be_v not_o if_o you_o have_v not_o separate_v yourselves_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o be_v the_o arrian_n nestorian_n macedontans_n pelagian_o etc._n etc._n no_o heretic_n neither_o be_v they_o separate_v from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o be_v only_o under_o reformation_n do_v not_o you_o oppose_v and_o deny_v doctrine_n of_o faith_n as_o ancient_o and_o as_o universal_o receive_v by_o the_o church_n as_o those_o that_o the_o arrian_n nestorian_n macedonian_n pelagian_o etc._n etc._n oppose_v and_o deny_v what_o difference_n can_v you_o make_v between_o arrius_n and_o luther_n in_o respect_n of_o their_o apostasy_n do_v not_o luther_n set_v himself_o against_o the_o whole_a world_n as_o well_o as_o arrius_n do_v not_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n beside_o yourselves_o upon_o your_o first_o reformation_n as_o you_o call_v it_o detest_v your_o new_a doctrine_n and_o abhor_v your_o communion_n do_v not_o the_o pretend_a greek_a church_n itself_o into_o who_o communion_n you_o be_v petitioner_n to_o be_v admit_v condemn_v your_o new_a doctrine_n as_o heretical_a and_o refuse_v to_o receive_v you_o into_o their_o communion_n read_v the_o book_n entitle_v censura_fw-la orientalis_n ecclesiae_fw-la and_o you_o shall_v there_o find_v the_o greek_a church_n maintain_v and_o that_o against_o the_o protestant_n the_o doctrine_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n cap._n 7._o of_o transubstantiation_n and_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n body_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrarmen●_n c._n 10._o of_o auricular_a confession_n c._n 11._o of_o the_o unbloudy_a propitiatory_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n c._n 13._o of_o free_a will_n c._n 18._o of_o tradition_n c._n 20._o of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o veneration_n of_o image_n c._n 21._o be_v there_o any_o one_o man_n in_o the_o whole_a world_n that_o profess_v your_o foctrine_n before_o luther_n and_o yet_o forsooth_o you_o be_v no_o separation_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o a_o reformation_n a_o bless_a reformation_n that_o must_v necessary_o justify_v all_o former_a heresy_n that_o ever_o be_v condemn_v and_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n that_o ever_o separate_v themselves_o from_o god_n church_n to_o say_v no_o more_o where_o be_v your_o succession_n of_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n which_o be_v essential_a to_o god_n church_n if_o the_o consecration_n of_o your_o pretend_a bishop_n be_v never_o valid_a then_o must_v also_o the_o ordination_n of_o your_o pretend_a priest_n be_v invalid_a and_o it_o never_o yet_o can_v nor_o ever_o can_v appear_v that_o you_o have_v either_o bishop_n consecrate_v or_o priest_n ordain_v either_o lawful_o or_o valid_o since_o queen_n marye'_v day_n but_o i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v most_o strong_a and_o pregnant_a argument_n for_o the_o contrary_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o perchance_o there_o may_v be_v some_o priest_n ordain_v valid_o though_o sacrilegious_o by_o that_o apostate_n bishop_n of_o spalleto_n in_o the_o time_n of_o his_o stay_n in_o england_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o a_o succession_n of_o priest_n and_o bishop_n i_o have_v now_o do_v with_o the_o first_o answer_n and_o pass_v to_o the_o second_o which_o because_o i_o find_v to_o consist_v principal_o of_o scurrilitye_n personal_a and_o malicious_a invective_n and_o repetition_n of_o former_a fallacy_n my_o reply_n will_v be_v the_o short_a since_o i_o shall_v in_o many_o thing_n refer_v the_o reader_n to_o my_o former_a answer_n and_o take_v notice_n here_o only_o of_o that_o which_o i_o shall_v find_v to_o be_v new_a matter_n 50._o and_o here_o at_o the_o very_a first_o entrance_n i_o meet_v with_o a_o old_a fallacy_n a_o ridiculous_a argument_n already_o answer_v sect._n 5._o to_o which_o i_o must_v refer_v the_o reader_n i_o will_v here_o add_v this_o only_a that_o before_o s._n peter_n translate_v his_o chair_n from_o antioch_n to_o rome_n the_o catholic_a church_n may_v be_v proper_o call_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n which_o ever_o since_o have_v be_v call_v the_o roman_a church_n and_o ever_o will_v be_v until_o s._n peter_n successor_n shall_v translate_v his_o chair_n to_o some_o other_o place_n 51._o after_o this_o follow_v a_o most_o notorious_a falsehood_n viz._n that_o in_o the_o time_n of_o s._n hilary_n of_o poicteurs_n there_o be_v at_o rome_n no_o church_n no_o communion_n of_o saint_n she_o and_o those_o in_o communion_n with_o she_o be_v heretical_a and_o comply_v with_o arrius_n this_o be_v most_o apparent_o false_a by_o the_o record_n of_o all_o history_n for_o at_o that_o time_n the_o western_a church_n be_v nothing_o so_o much_o infect_v with_o arrianism_n as_o the_o eastern_a beside_o s._n hilary_n in_o that_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v sect._n ●3_n have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o name_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o therefore_o have_v not_o in_o particular_a exclude_v it_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o from_o those_o word_n of_o the_o father_n caeteris_fw-la extra_fw-la gallias_n you_o will_v prove_v that_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o france_n be_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o say_v you_o there_o be_v then_o no_o communion_n with_o rome_n unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o rome_n be_v in_o france_n sect._n 23._o but_o pray_v tell_v i_o doctor_n be_v alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n more_o in_o france_n than_o rome_n and_o yet_o you_o here_o confess_v that_o at_o the_o very_a same_o time_n those_o be_v catholic_a and_o orthodox_n church_n so_o that_o it_o must_v necessary_o follow_v either_o that_o alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n be_v in_o france_n or_o else_o that_o some_o other_o church_n beside_o france_n be_v catholic_a and_o orthodox_n and_o if_o so_o why_o not_o rome_n especial_o since_o that_o father_n do_v not_o in_o particular_a charge_n rome_n with_o arrianism_n more_o than_o alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n so_o that_o if_o you_o by_o those_o general_a word_n of_o the_o father_n will_v exclude_v rome_n i_o may_v also_o as_o well_o exclude_v alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n wherefore_o you_o have_v force_v yourself_o to_o interpret_v those_o word_n of_o the_o father_n as_o i_o have_v do_v sect._n 34._o or_o else_o you_o must_v unsay_v what_o you_o have_v say_v and_o deny_v alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n to_o have_v be_v at_o that_o time_n catholic_a and_o orthodox_n church_n unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o alexandria_n and_o sardinia_n be_v in_o france_n 52._o hitherto_o than_o you_o have_v show_v no_o church_n at_o all_o distinct_a from_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o any_o age_n though_o you_o be_v please_v to_o say_v sect._n 3._o of_o this_o second_o answer_n that_o your_o learning_n be_v such_o that_o you_o do_v know_v such_o a_o church_n and_o your_o charity_n such_o that_o you_o have_v show_v it_o it_o seem_v you_o show_v it_o so_o well_o that_o m._n t._n b._n be_v thereby_o full_o satisfy_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v distinct_a from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o have_v thereupon_o embrace_v her_o communion_n and_o be_v by_o god_n grace_n become_v a_o good_a catholic_a thus_o have_v god_n be_v please_v to_o produce_v good_a out_o of_o evil_a to_o work_v his_o happiness_n out_o of_o your_o
be_v it_o fit_a that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n who_o you_o have_v forsake_v shall_v stoop_v to_o you_o be_v she_o bind_v to_o follow_v you_o that_o have_v forsake_v she_o who_o make_v you_o judge_n of_o god_n church_n that_o you_o shall_v take_v upon_o you_o to_o charge_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o rome_n with_o error_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n by_o what_o rule_n have_v you_o do_v this_o you_o pretend_v sect._n 37._o to_o walk_v by_o a_o sure_a rule_n but_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o walk_v not_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n catholic_a church_n for_o she_o walk_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n word_n interpret_v by_o universal_a and_o apostolical_a tradition_n which_o you_o contemn_v and_o laugh_v at_o but_o you_o by_o the_o rule_n of_o scripture_n interpret_v by_o your_o own_o private_a fancy_n and_o deceitful_a imagination_n 82._o now_o the_o doctor_n begin_v to_o quarrel_v with_o the_o language_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n how_o do_v they_o say_v he_o pray_v with_o the_o people_n who_o pray_v in_o a_o tongue_n the_o people_n understand_v not_o answ_n and_o why_o may_v not_o priest_n and_o people_n join_v in_o heart_n to_o god_n in_o prayer_n though_o the_o language_n of_o the_o church_n prayer_n be_v not_o understand_v by_o all_o present_a s._n paul_n confess_v 1._o cor._n 14._o 14._o that_o a_o man_n may_v pray_v in_o spirit_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n though_o not_o with_o his_o understanding_n the_o priest_n and_o people_n of_o the_o jew_n can_v join_v together_o in_o prayer_n and_o prayer_n to_o god_n before_o christ_n though_o their_o service_n be_v perform_v in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n a_o language_n no_o more_o than_o understand_v by_o the_o vulgar_a jew_n than_o the_o latin_a be_v now_o by_o the_o vulgar_a christian_n why_o then_o may_v not_o the_o christian_a priest_n and_o people_n join_v together_o in_o prayer_n though_o the_o church_n service_n be_v perform_v in_o a_o language_n which_o some_o of_o the_o vulgar_a christian_n that_o be_v present_a understand_v not_o the_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a tongue_n wherein_o only_o the_o church_n service_n have_v be_v perform_v throughout_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n ever_o since_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v language_n well_o know_v to_o the_o world_n all_o man_n may_v learn_v they_o they_o be_v not_o such_o unknown_a language_n as_o those_o be_v which_o s._n paul_n speak_v of_o 1._o cor._n 14._o which_o be_v miraculous_o infuse_v into_o many_o of_o the_o primitive_a christian_n the_o end_n whereof_o be_v the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o conversion_n of_o infidel_n now_o those_o tongue_n be_v neither_o understand_v by_o the_o people_n nor_o always_o by_o those_o that_o speak_v they_o as_o appear_v 1._o cor._n 12._o and_o 1._o cor._n 14._o 13._o these_o language_n miraculous_o infuse_v by_o god_n the_o primitive_a christian_n use_v in_o their_o public_a meeting_n first_o to_o instruct_v the_o ignorant_a second_o to_o convert_v infidel_n where_o their_o instruction_n and_o prayer_n be_v always_o extemporary_a according_a as_o they_o be_v immediate_o assist_v by_o god_n holy_a spirit_n but_o the_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o in_o such_o unknown_a language_n second_o they_o be_v say_v in_o the_o same_o language_n wherein_o the_o public_a service_n of_o the_o church_n be_v ever_o perform_v in_o all_o age_n since_o the_o apostle_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o ancient_a hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a missale_n which_o be_v a_o argument_n unanswerable_a that_o such_o language_n be_v not_o against_o s._n paul_n doctrine_n 1._o cor._n 14._o nor_o any_o other_o place_n of_o god_n word_n three_o the_o end_n of_o our_o present_a public_a meeting_n in_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o instruct_v edify_v or_o convert_v as_o those_o meeting_n be_v whereof_o s._n paul_n speak_v in_o that_o chapter_n but_o to_o offer_v up_o to_o god_n the_o tribute_n of_o prayer_n and_o praise_n that_o be_v due_a unto_o he_o as_o also_o to_o draw_v down_o god_n blessing_n both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a upon_o the_o people_n and_o to_o this_o end_n the_o people_n join_v with_o the_o priest_n in_o their_o exterior_a act_n of_o devotion_n and_o religion_n thereby_o profess_v their_o assent_n to_o the_o public_a prayer_n and_o praise_n of_o the_o church_n and_o can_v it_o be_v think_v necessary_a for_o those_o end_n that_o all_o the_o people_n present_a shall_v express_o understand_v every_o word_n of_o the_o church_n service_n which_o though_o it_o be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n of_o every_o nation_n will_v notwithstanding_o be_v impossible_a 83._o between_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n you_o say_v sect._n 40._o there_o be_v many_o difference_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o for_o all_o these_o they_o grow_v up_o together_o comfortable_o and_o continue_v in_o the_o same_o body_n answ_n when_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n be_v concern_v such_o doctrine_n as_o be_v not_o declare_v in_o any_o general_n council_n nor_o can_v appear_v by_o the_o universal_a tradition_n or_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n they_o be_v then_o only_a error_n not_o heresy_n but_o when_o any_o of_o the_o eastern_a church_n oppose_v the_o western_a in_o such_o doctrine_n as_o appear_v either_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n or_o by_o universal_a tradition_n and_o consent_n of_o nation_n or_o be_v declare_v and_o define_v in_o a_o general_n council_n they_o then_o fall_v from_o error_n into_o heresy_n and_o be_v thereby_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o catholic_a church_n your_o 41._o sect._n be_v answer_v sect._n 29._o and_o sect._n 65._o and_o sect._n 30._o 84._o in_o your_o 42._o sect._n you_o say_v that_o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o all_o the_o apostle_n alike_o answ_n this_o i_o confess_v in_o some_o sense_n may_v be_v true_a but_o make_v nothing_o for_o you_o that_o all_o the_o apostle_n have_v the_o key_n of_o remit_v and_o 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