Apostles Stapleton HERE is nothinge M. Horne that importeth youre surmised Supremacye The effecte of your processe is Princes haue authoritie to mainteine praise and further the vertues of the first table and to suppresse the contrary wherein onely coÌ„sisteth the true ReligioÌ„ and spiritual Seruice that is due froÌ„ maÌ„ to God And that he hath authority herein not only in the vertues or vices bidden or forbiddeÌ„ in the second table of Gods coÌ„maundements wherin are conteined the dueties one man oweth to an other This is grauÌ„ted M. Horn both of the Catholiks and of the soberer sort of Protestants for Carolostadius Pelargus Struthius with the whole rable of th' Anabaptists deny it that Princes haue authority both to further the obseruation and to punish the breach of Gods coÌ„maundements as wel in the first table as in the second that is as well in such actions as concerne our dutie to God him self as in the dutie of one man to an other But al this is as not onely the Catholike writers but MelaÌ„chthon him self and Caluin do expouÌ„d quod ad externam disciplinam attinet as much as apperteineth to external discipline and the Magistrate is the keper and defender of both tables saith Melanchthon but againe he addeth quod ad externos mores attinet as muche as belongeth to external maners behauiour and demeanour For in the first table are coÌ„teined many offences and breaches of the which the Prince can not iudge and much lesse are by him punishable As are all suche crimes whiche proprely belong to the Court of Conscience To wit misbelief in God mistrust in his mercy contempt of his commaundements presumption of our selues incredulitie and such like which al are offences against the first table that is against the loue we owe to God CoÌ„trarywise true belief confidence in God the feare of God and such like are the vertues of the first table And of these Melanchthon truely saith Haec sunt vera opera primae tabulae These are the true workes of the first table The punishing correcting or iudging of these appertaine nothing to the authority of the Prince or to any his lawes but only are iudged corrected and punished by the spiritual sworde of excommunication of binding of sinnes and embarring the vse of the holy Sacraments by the order and authoritie of the Priest only and spiritual Magistrate Which thing is euident not only by the confession doctrine and continuall practise of the Catholique Churche but also by the very writinges of such as haue departed out of the Churche and will seeme most to extolle the authoritie of Princes yea of your selfe M. Horne as we shall see hereafter Againe whereas the chiefe vertue of the first table is to beleue in God to knowe him and to haue the true faithe of him and in him in externall regimente as to punishe open blasphemy to make lawes against heretiques to honour and mainteine the true seruice of God Princes especially Christians ought to further aide and mainteine the same But to iudge of it and to determine whiche is the true faith in God how and after what maner he ought to be serued what doctrine ought to be published in that behalfe the Prince hath no authoritie or power at all Therefore MelanchthoÌ„ who in his CoÌ„mon places wil haue Princes to looke vnto the true doctrine to correct the Churches when Bishops faile of their duetie yea and to consider the doctrine it selfe yet afterward he so writeth of this matter that either he recanteth as better aduised or els writeth plaine contrary to him selfe For thus he saieth of the Ciuile Magistrates Non condant dogmata in Ecclesia nec instituant cultus vt fecit Nabuchodonozor Et recens in scripto cui titulus est Interim potestas politica extra metas egressa est Sicut Imperatori ConstaÌ„tio dixit Episcopus LeoÌ„tius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 NoÌ„ sunt coÌ„fundeÌ„dae functiones c. Let theÌ„ make no doctrines in the Church neither appoint any worshipping of God as did Nabuchodonosor And euen of late in that writing which is entituled the Interim the Ciuile power hath passed her bounds and limites As ones Bishop Leontius said to Constantius the Emperour Thou being set to gouerne in one matter takest vpon thee an other matter The functions of both magistrates are not to be confounded In these woordes you see M. Horne Melanchthon taketh away all authoritie from Princes in iudging or determining of doctrine and wil not haue the functions of both Magistrates Spiritual and temporal to be confounded Yea M. Nowel himselfe with a great stomach biddeth vs shew where they deny that godly and learned Priestes might according to Gods woorde iudge of the sincerity of doctrine As though when the Prince and his successours are made supreme gouernours without any limitation it fal not often out that the bisshop be he neuer so lerned or godly shall not ones be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince As though there had not ben a statute made declaring and enacting the Quenes Ma. yea and her highnes successours without exception or limitation of godly and vngodly and yet I trowe no bisshops to be the Supreme Gouernour in all thinges and causes as well spiritual as temporal As though you M. Horne had not writen that in bothe the tables the Prince hath authority to erect and correct to farther and restrayne to allow and punishe the vertues and vices thereto appertayning As though the gouernour in al causes is not also a iudge in all causes Or as though it were not commonly so taken and vnderstanded of a thousand in Englande which haue taken that Othe to their gâ—eat damnation but if they repeÌ„t You therefore M. Horne which talke so confusely and generally of the Princes Authority in both tables doe yet say nothing nor proue nothing this general and absolute Authority in al thinges and causes as lustely without exception the Othe expresseth And therefore you bring in dede nothiÌ„g to proue your principal purpose to the which al your proufes should be directed Againe where you alleage S. Augustin that the worde Godlynes meÌ„tioned in S. Paule to Timothe shoulde meane the true chief or proper worship of God as though Princes hauing charg therof should also haue authority to appoint such worship when yet S. Paule speaketh there of no such or of any authority at al in Princes but onely that by their peasible gouernmeÌ„t we might with the more quiet atteÌ„d to Gods seruice you doe herein vntruly report S. Augustine or at the leste missetake him For the woorde godlines which S. Augustine will haue so to meane is that which the Greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gods seruice or religioÌ„ as himself there expresseth but the word of the Apostle to Timothee is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 godlynes So aptly and truly you alleage your doctors But wil you know M. Horn why
c. What then M. Horne was he therefore supreme gouernour in al causes ecclesiastical Yea or in this very cause was he thinke you the supreme gouernour If you had tolde vs some parte of that graue oration somewhat therein perhaps would haue appered either for your purpose or against it Now a graue oratiō he made you say but what that graue talke was or wherein it cōsisted you tel vs not Verily a graue oratiō it was in dede ād such as with the grauity thereof vtterly ouerbeareth the light presumption of your surmised supremacy For this amōg other thīgs he saied to those bisshops grauely in dede 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Such a mā therefore do you place in this bisshoply throne that we also which direct the Empire may gladly submitte oure heads to him and reuerence as a medicinable remedy the rebukes that he shall make ouer vs for men we are and must nedes falle somtyme So M. Horne woulde this Emperour haue a bisshop qualified and so was in dede this Ambrose then chosen passingly qualified that he shoulde tel and admonish boldely the Prince of his faultes and the Prince should as gladly and willingly obey him yea and submit his head vnto hī not be the supreme Head ouer hī as you most miserable clawbackes vnworthy of al priestly preeminēce would force modest prīces vnto This was the graue lessō he gaue to the bisshops as Constantin before to the Fathers of Nice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as a natural louing child 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Priestes as to his Fathers not to them as his seruauntes or subiectes in that respecte You say farder but you say vntruly to be alwaies like your selfe that this Emperour confirmed the true faith decreed in a Synod in Illyrico by his royal assent As though your Reader shoulde straight conceyue that as the Quenes Maiesty confirmeth the Actes of parliament with her highnes royall assent and is therefore in dede the Supreme and vndoubted Head ouer the whole parliament so this Emperour was ouer that Synod But Theodoretus your Author alleaged saieth no such thīg Only he saieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Those thīgs that had ben decreed and established by the Bisshoppes he sent abrode to those that doubted thereof Other confirmatiō then this is not in your Author or any otherwhere mētioned And this was plain ministerial execution of the decrees no royall confirmatiō of them M. Horne The 41. Diuision Pag. 26. a. Theodosius vvas nothing inferiour to Constantine the great neither in zeale care or furtherance of Christes Religiō He bent his vvhole povver and authoritie to the vtter ouerthrovve of superstition and false Religion somevvhat crept in againe in the times of Iulianus and Valēs the vvicked Emperours And for the sure continuance of Religion refourmed he made many godly Lavves he defended the .107 godly bishop of Antioche Flauianus against the bishop of Rome and other bishoppes of the VVeste vvho did .108 falsely accuse him of many crymes and at the lēgthe by his careful endeuour in Churche matters and his .109 Supreme authoritie therein this moste faytful Emperour sayeth Theodoretus sette peace and quietnes amongest the Bishoppes and in the Churches He called a conuocation of the Bishops to the ende that by common consent al should agree in vnytie of doctrine confessed by the Nicen councel to reconcile the Macedonians vnto the catholique Churche and to electe and order a Byshop in the sea of Cōstantinople vvhiche vvas than vacant VVhen the tvvoo fyrste pointes could not be brought to passe as the Emperour vvished they vvent in hande vvith the third to consult amongest them selues touching a fitte Bisshop for Constantinople The Emperour to vvhose iudgement many of the Synode consented thought Gregorie of Nazianzene moste fitte to be Bisshop but he did .111 vtterly refuse that that charge Than the Emperour commaundeth them to make diligēt inquisitiō for some godly man that might be appointed to that rovvme But vvhen the Bisshops could not agree vppon any one the Emperour commaundeth them to bring to him the names of al such as euery one of them thought moste apt to be Bisshop vvriten in a paper together He reserued to him self saith Sozomenus to choose vvhome he liked best VVhen he had redde ouer once or tvvyse the sedule of names vvhich vvas brought vnto him after good deliberation had vvith him self he chose Nectarius although as yet he vvas not christened and the Bisshops maruailing at his iudgemēt in the choise .112 could not remoue him And so vvas Nectarius baptized and made bisshop of Constātinople vvho proued so godly a bisshop that all men deemed this election to be made by Themperour not vvithout some miraculous inspiration of the holy ghost This Emperour perceiuing the Church had ben long tyme molested and dravvē into partes by the Arianisme and like to be more greuously torne in sonder vvith the heresy of Macedonius a B. of Cōstātinople and knovving that his supreme gouernmēt and empire vvas geuē him of God to mainteine the common peace of the Church and confirmation of the true faith summoneth a Synode at Constantinople in the thirde yeere of his reigne vvhich is the second great and general councel of the fovver notable and famous oecumenical councels and vvhen al the bisshops vvhome he had cited vvere assembled he cometh into the councell house amongest them he made vnto them a graue exhortation to consulte diligently like graue Fathers of the matters propoūded vnto them The Macedonians depart out of the Cytie the Catholike Fathers agree conclude a trueth and send the canons of their conclusion to the Emperour .113 to be confirmed vvriting vnto him in these vvords The holy counsaile of bisshops assembled at Constātinople to Theodosius Emperour the most reuerent obseruer of Godlines Religion and loue towardes God VVe geue God thankes who hath appointed your Emperial gouernmēt for the common tranquility of his Churches and to establishe the sounde faith Sithe the tyme of our assembly at Constantinople by your godly commaundement we haue renewed cōcorde amongest our selues and haue prescribed certaine Canōs or rules which we haue annexed vnto this our writing we beseche therefore your clemency to commaunde the Decree of the Counsaile to be stablished by the letters of your holines and that ye wil confirme it and as you haue honoured the Church by the letters wherewith you called vs together euen so that you wil strengthen also the final conclusion of the Decrees with your own sentence and seale After this he calleth an other .114 Councel of bisshops to Constantinople of vvhat Religion so euer thinking that if they might assemble together in his presence and before him conferre touching the matters of Religion vvherein they disagreed that they might be reconciled and brought to vnity of Faith He consulteth vvith Nectarius and sitteth dovvn in the Councel house amongest them al and examineth those
The vvhiche vvas proued ouer true not onely in the elections of the Bishoppes of old Rome but also in many Bishoppes of other Cities especially of nevve Rome These diseases in the Churche ministers and the disorders thereout springyng the Emperours from time to time studied to cure and refourme vvherefore Theodosius and Valentinianus vvhen they savve the great hoouing and shoouinge at Constantinople about the election of a Bishop after the death of Sisinius some speakinge to preferre Philippus other some Proclus both being ministers of that Churche did prouide a remedy for this michiefe to vvitte they them selues .123 made a decree that none of that Church should be Bishop there but some straunger from an other Churche and so the Emperours sent to Antioche for Nestorius vvho as yet vvas thought both for his doctrine and life to be a sitte pastor for the flocke and made him Bishop of Constantinople Stapleton This man is nowe againe in hande with the Emperours ordinance concerning the election of the Bishop of Constantinople but by the way or being as he is in dede al out of his waye and matter to he towcheth what slaughter there was at Rome when Damasus was made Pope and so rūneth backe agayne out of the way and out of his matter which he might ful wel haue let alone sauing that he would shewe his great familiaritie and affinitie with Iulian the Pelagian Who for lacke of good matter to iustify his own and to infringe the Catholik doctrine fel to controlle the Catholikes for their manners and namely for this dissention at the creation of Damasus Of which cotentiō Sabellicus saith M. Horne speaketh and Volaterranus sayeth it was not without much bloudshed As though Sabellicus said not also that the matter was tried with strokes But where to finde or seke it in either of them M. Horne leaueth vs to the wide worlde But what is this M. Horne against Damasus Primacie who was also a true and a good godly learned Bishop whom S. Hierome for all this contention recognised as head of the Churche and as greate a Clerke as he was yet being in doubte by reason of diuerse sectes about Antiochia in Syria with what persons to communicate moste humbly requireth of him to knowe with whom he should communicate and with whom he should not communicate What is then your argumēt M. Horne Is it this Damasus entred into the See of Rome by force and bloudshed Ergo the Emperour at that time was Supreme gouernour in all causes Ecclesiasticall Verely either this is your argumēt or els you make here none at al but only tel forth a story to no purpose except it be to deface the holy Apostolik See of Rome which in dede serueth euer your purpose both in bookes and in pulpitts What so euer it be you haue in hand beside the Pope may not be forgotten Now that you tel vs of a decree made by th' Emperours Theodosius and Valentinianus that none of the Churche of Constantinople should be Bysshop there but some straunger frō an other Churche you tell vs a mere vntruth Your alleaged Authors Socrates and Liberatus speake no one woorde of any such Decree The words of Liberatus who translated in maner the wordes of Socrates are these Sisinius being departed it semed good to the Emperours to appoint none of the Church of Constantinople to be bisshop there but to send for som straunger from Antioch in Syria from whence they had a little before Iohn Chrysostome and to make him Bisshop And this worde for worde hath also Socrates but he addeth more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Because of the vaine triflers and busy heades that were of that Churche Of any Decree that the Emperor should make none of them both doe mention But at that time only the case then in Constantinople so standing and their luck before being so good in Iohn Chrysostom who from a stranger became their bishop it pleased the Emperours so to doe And al this they did by way of prouision for the Church quiet not by waye of absolute authority or any forceable Decree as M. Horn fableth and ouer reacheth his Authors M. Horne The .44 Diuision pag. 28. b. As Constantinus and Theodosius the elder euen so Theodosius the seconde a very .124 godly Emperour hauing and practising the .125 supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes seeinge the horrible Heresies spronge vp and deuidinge the Church but specially by Nestorius did 126 by his authoritie cal the thirde general councel at Ephesus named the first Ephesine councel geuinge streight .127 commaundement to al Bishops vvheresoeuer that they shoulde not faile to appeare at the time appointed and further vsed the same povver and authoritie in the ordering and gouerninge thereof by his .128 Lieutenaūt Ioannes Comes Sacrensis that other Godly Emperours had beene accustomed to vse before him ▪ accordinge to the cōtinual practise of the Churche as it is plainely set foorth in the booke of general Councelles In this councel there happened so greuous contention betvvixt Cyrillus Bishop of Alexandria and Iohn Bishop of Antioche both beyng othervvise godly and learned mē that the councel vvas diuided thereby into tvvo partes the occasion of this Schisme vvas partely that Cyrillus and certaine other vvith him had proceeded to the cōdemnation of Nestorius before that Ioānes vvith his cōpany could com ād partly for that Ioānes of Antioch suspected Cyrillus of certain Heresies misdeeming that Ciril had made the more haste to confirme them before his comminge He therefore vvith his associates complaineth and laieth to Cyrilles chardge that he did not tary according to the commaundement of the Emperour for the comming of the Bisshops of other Prouinces vvhich vvere called thither frō all partes by the cōmaundement of the Emperour That vvhan the noble Earle Candidianus commaunded him by vvriting and vvithout vvriting that he should presume no suche matter but that he and those that vvere vvith him should abide the comming of the other Bishops neuer thelesse he proceeded that he and his company vvere the authours of dissension and discord in the Church ▪ and that they had geuē the occasion that the rules of the Fathers and the decrees of the Emperours vvere broken ▪ and trodē vnder foote vvherefore they iudge Cyrill of Alexādria vvith Memnō bisshop of Ephesus to be deposed frō their bisshopriks and Ecclesiastical ministery and the other their associates to be excōmunicate The vvhich their doinges they signifie to the Emperour Theodosius by their Synodical letters to vnderstande his pleasure in .129 allovving or disallovvyng of their Synodicall actes After this came the bishop of Romes legates before vvhome in the coūcel Cyrillus and Memnō offered vp their libelles deposing a contestation againste Iohn and his party to haue them cited and render the cause of their deposition The bisshoppe of Romes legates vvith the consent of the councell on that parte sendeth for Ioannes and his parties
of S. Augustyne that thys was the gwise and fasshion of the anciente Church The lyke sleight M. Horne vseth touching pilgrimage the whiche his owne canon highly comendeth thowghe full wisely and discreetly yt preuenteth and reformeth some abuses Wherfore ye shall heare the whole canon I will shifte no worde but only froÌ„ Latyn into the english In the former canoÌ„ the couÌ„cel forbadde that priests shuld goe on pilgrimage without the coÌ„sent of their Bishoppe to Rome or to Towres a towne in France where at the tombe and reliques of blessed S. Martyn innumerable miracles were donne and wrowght as amonge other Gregorius Turonensis Bishop there and a faythfull reporter not by vncerteyne hearesay but by presente eiesight moste fully declareth The whiche holy reliques the hugonotes of late in FraÌ„ce haue with moste vilany dishonored and consumed After which inhibition it followeth For say the Fathers some meÌ„ which vnaduisedlie vnder the cowlour of prayer goe in pilgrimage to Rome to Towres and other places doe erre very much There are priestes and Deacons and other of the Clergie which liuing dissolutely thinke them selues to be purged of their sinnes and to dooe their office if they ones come to the foresaid places There are neuerthelesse laye menne whiche thinke they haue freelye sinned or may freely sinne because they frequente these places to make their prayers in There be some Noble men which to scrape and procure mony vnder the pâ—etence of their pilgrimage to Rome or to Towres oppresse many poore men and that which they doe vpon couetousnesse only they pretend to doe for prayers sake and for the visiting of holy places There are poore men which doe this for no other intent but to procure to them selues a greater occasioÌ„ to begge Of this number are they that wandering hither and thither faine neuerthelesse that they goe thither or that are so foolisshe that they thinke they are by the bare view of holie places purged of their sinnes not considering that saying of S. Hierome It is not praise worthiâ— to hâ—ue seene Hierusalem but to haue liued vertuouslie at Hierusalem Of all whiche things lette vs looke for the iudgemente of our Emperoure howe they maye be amended But those who haue confessed themselues to their parrissh Priestes and haue of them taken counsell how to doe penance if imploying them selues to praier and almes geuing and to the refourming of their life and maners they desire to goe on Pilgrimage to Rome or els where are of allmen to be commended for their deuotion The Fathers also desire the Emperours healpe and assistaunce not his Order as you vntruely reporte for publique peÌ„naunce Beside if it had pleased you yee mighte haue caste in also a woorde or twoo more Vt secundum ordinem Canonum pro merito suo excommunicetur That accordinge to the order of the Canons he may according to his deserts be excommunicated And now good Reader iudge thou how truely how wisely or how to his purpose this gere is brought furth of M. Horne and what a singular good grace this man hath so wel to plead against him selfe and his fellowes for the Catholiques And nowe would I be in hande with Leo sauing that Maister Hornes Marginall Note seemeth to take me by the hand and to staie me a while And yet we wil foorth with shake him of and desire Maister Horne to ouersee his text ones againe and to square his Note to his Texte and not his text after his peruerse and preposterous order to his note I say then M. Horne ye haue no words nor mater in your text to cal Carolus Magnus Gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes and because beside your Note Marginall ye note the matter also so fast in your text which is not in the Fathers text saying the Fathers saye in playne speach that he was ruler of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes I wil note as fast as you and that is your one false lying in your text and the other in the margent Onles ye may by some new Grammar and like Diuinitie proue that in seruitio suo in his seruice is Englished also In ecclesiastical matters You tell vs farder M. Horne that in this Councell of Ments the States were diuided The Bisshoppes and secular Priestes by them selues The Abbottes and Religious by them selues But you tell vs not wherein euery State was occupied and busied in that Councell That in deede made not for you The Councel then saith In prima turma consederunt Episcopi c. In the first rewe sate the Bisshops with their Notaries reading and debating vppon the holy Ghospel the Canons of the Church diuers works of the holy Fathers and namely the Pastoral of S. Gregory searching and determining thereby that which belonged to holsome doctrine and to the state of the Church In the seconde rew sate the Bisshops and approued Monks hauing before them the rule of S. Benet and seking therby to better the life of Monks to encrease their godly conuersation In the third rew sate the Laye Nobilitie and Iudges But what to doe M. Horne To conclude of matters of ReligioÌ„ as the laie Burgeses and GeÌ„tlemen do in our ParliameÌ„ts No no Neque nos neque Ecclesia Dei taleÌ„ consuetudineÌ„ habemus Neither we nor the Church of God haue any such custom or maner But there thei sate In mundanis legibus decertantes c. Debating in worldly lawes searching out Iustice for the people examininge diligently the causes of all that came and determining Iustice by al meanes that they could Thus were the States in that Councel diuided vnder that Noble Emperour Charlemain And what could this Note helpe you M. Horne or relieue you except it were that you would geue a preuy nippe to the order of late Parliaments where the laie not onely of the Nobilitie but euen of the Commons whose sentences in treatie of Relligion neuer sence Christe suffred were euer hearde or admitted doe talke dispute yea and conclude of Religion and that in the highest and most secrete mysteries thereof to the consequente of a Generall alteration You woulde no doubte as gladdelie as Catholiques haue the treatie and decision of suche matters in youre owne handes onely as in deede all Protestauntes beside you Caluin Melanchthon the Magdeburgenses with the reste doe expresselye teache as I haue bothe in this booke and otherwhere declared But this is the difference You are miserable clawbackes and as Caluin writeth to extolle the Ciuill Magistrate you spoyle the Churche of her dewe Authoryte But the Catholikes thinke it not mete to flatter in ReligioÌ„ But to geue that which is Cesars to Cesar and that which is Gods to God Excepete we shoulde saye that now you will haue Religion decided in parliament and when the Prince shall otherwise be affected you will not haue it so decided and that your Religion is Ambulatoria a wandring and a walking Religion teaching one thinge to day and an other to
is his anker hold and for this cause aswell the whole allegation is here producted as also one peace of the same set in the first page of his whole boke as a sure marke to direct the reader by and as yt were a Sampsons poste for M. Horne to buyld his boke vppō But take good head M. Horne yt be not a true Sampsons poste and that it bring not the whole howse vpon your own head as yt doth in dede Wherunto good reader seing M. Horne hath chosen this as a notable allegation to be eied on setting the same in two notable places I woulde wishe thee also to geue a good eye thereunto and to see if it can anye way possible make for him I say then M. Horne that this allegatiō goeth no further then that the Prince by his cyuill and worldlye power shoulde assiste and maynteyne the Churche and her doctrine And that this allegation directly and rowndly proueth the contrarye of that for the whiche ye doe alleage yt that is that yt proueth the ecclesiasticall authoritie and not the cyuill to be cheif and principall in causes ecclesiasticall And that in effecte the whole tendeth to nothing else but that as I sayde the Princes shoulde defend the Churche I will not stande here in ripping vp of wordes with you or in the diuersity of reading and that some old copies haue who hath committed his Churche to be defended of theire power and that your hath deliuered to be committed seameth to stande in your translation vnhansomly I will saye nothing that credere and committere is all one in Latin Let this goe I finde no faulte with you for translation but for yl application Yf ye had brought this authority to proue that the prince should defende the Churche for the whiche ende and respecte it was writen I woulde say nothing to you But when ye will bleare our eies and make vs so blinde that we shoulde imagine by this saying of Isidore that the king is Supreame Head of the Churche or that his assente is necessarie to the Synodes of Bishops and coūcelles I wil say to you that the cōtrary wil be much better gathered of this allegatiō The very firste wordes wōderfully acrase your newe primacy and somwhat also your honesty peruersly trāslating nōnunquā which is somtime or now and thē into oftētimes But let yt be for nonnunquam sepe let them oftētymes haue the highest authoritye in the Churche Vnlesse they haue yt styll they can not be called the Supreame Heades in all causes ecclesiastical And so theis very words make a good argumēt againste your primacy But now M. Horne what is the cause whie they haue this high authority either somtimes or oftētimes Isidore straytwayes sheweth the cause that they may as your self translate fence by theire power the ecclesiastical discipline Ye heare thē the scope and final purpose of this allegation for Princes authority in matters ecclesiasticall that is to defende the Churche And therefore as I sayde yt is more sutely to reade tradidit defendendam then tradidit cōmittendā And for this cause the Emperours call them selues not capita Ecclesiae not the heades of the Churche sed aduocatos Ecclesiae but the aduocates of the Churche as your self tel of themperour Friderike Goe we now forth with Isidorus But first I aske of you M. Horne that make the Princes to be heades of the Churche and to haue so muche to doe in matters ecclesiasticall that the Bishops can decree nothing that shoulde be auaylable withowt they re special ratification for the setting forth of the which doctrine ye are content for this tyme that priestes shal be priestes and may sweare by their priesthod and not by theire aldermanship or eldership whether suche authority in Princes be absolutelie necessarie to the Churche or no Yf ye say no thē conclud you against your self ād your whole boke Yf ye say yea then conclude you against the truthe and againste your authour who sayeth that suche authority of Princes in the Church is not necessarie but for to punishe those that contemne the worde of doctrine the fayth and discipline of the Churche Of whome haue we receiued M. Horne the worde of doctrine the faythe and discipline of the Churche Of the Apostles and theire successours the Bishoppes or of the Princes I suppose ye will not saie of Princes Then must ye graunt that for these matters the primacy resteth in the clergy of whom the Princes thē selues haue receiued theire faith ād to whom in matters of faith and for the discipline of the Churche they must also obey and as case requireth set forth the doctrine of worde wyth theire temporal sworde Whiche if they do not but suffer throwghe theire slacknes the faythe and disciplyne of the Churche to be loosed God who hath committed his Churche to be defended by theire power wil exacte an accompte of thē as your authour Isidore writeth and your self do allege So that now we see euen by your own allegatiō in whom the superiority of Churche matters remayneth that is in the clergy And that Princes are not the heades but the ayders assisters and aduocates of the Churche with theire tēporal authority And to this ende all that euer ye haue browght in this your boke cōcerning the intermedling of Princes in church affaires cā only be referred And this your own allegatiō is aswel a sufficiēt answere to al your argumēts hitherto laid furth for the princes supremacy as a good iustification of the Clergies primacy Wherfore if you harken but to your owne allegation and will stande to the same as you wil your Readers to do placing it as I haue said in the fore fronte of your booke you must nedes stand also to the next parcell folowing making clerely for the Clergies superioritie in Ecclesiasticall causes These words I mean that withī the Church the power of Prīces shuld not be necessary sauing that that thing which the Priests are not able to do by the word of doctrine the power of the prīce may cōmaūd by terror of discipline And I doubt nothing but that we are able wel and surely to proue as wel by his other bookes as by his gathering of all the Councels together into one volume yet extāt that Isidorus thought of the Popes Primacy then as Catholiques doe now For an euident proufe wherof behold what this Auncient and learned Bisshop Isidorus writeth He saith Synodorum congregandarum authoritas Apostolicae sedi commissa est Neque vllam Synodū generalem ratam esse credimus aut legimus quae non fuerit eius authoritate congregata vel fulcita Hoc Authoritas testatur Canonica hoc Ecclesiastica historia comprobat hoc Sancti Patres confirmant The Authoritie of assembling Coūcelles is committed to the See Apostolike Neither doe we beleue or reade any General Councell to be ratified whiche was not either assembled or confirmed with her Authoritie
Supremacy to rest in the Clergy ād not in the Prince which must obey as well as the other And therefore it is not true that ye saye that M. Fekenhams cause is no deale holpen by this place nor your assertion any thing improued But let vs steppe one steppe farder with you M. Horne vpō the groūd of your present liberalytye lest as you haue begonne you pinche vs yet farder and take away all together from Bishops and Priestes Subiection you say and obedience to the word of God taught and preached by the Bishops c. is commaūded so wel to Princes as to the inferiour sort of the people If so M. Horne howe did a lay parliament vtterly disobey the doctrine of all their Bishoppes and enacte a new contrary to theirs What obediēce was there in that parliament so expressely required here by S. Paule and so dewe euen of Princes them selues as you confesse to their Bishoppes Will you say the Bishoppes then preached not Gods worde And who shal iudge that Shal a lay parliament iudge it Is that the obedience dewe to Bishoppes In case al the Bishops of a realme erred is there not a generall Councell to be sought vnto Are there not other Bishops of other Coūtries to be coūseled Is not al the Church one body In matters of faithe shal we seuer our selues frō our Fathers ād Brethern the whole corps of Christēdome beside by the vertue of an Acte passed by lay mē onely No bishops no Clerke admitted to speake and say his minde O lamentable case God forgeue our dere Countre this most haynouse trespasse Then the which I feare our Realme committed not a more greuous except the first breache in Kinge Henries dayes these many hundred yeares Yet one steppe farder The Prince must obey and be fedde at the Bishoppes hande you confesse What is that Is it not he must learne howe to beleue and howe to serue God Is it not the pastorall office as S Augustin teacheth to open the springes that are hidden and to geue pure and sounde water to the thirsty shepe Is not the shepeheardes office to strenghthen that is weake to heale that is sicke to binde that is broken to bringe home againe that is caste away to seke that is loste and so forthe as the Prophet Ezechiel describeth And what is all this but to teache to correct to instructe to refourme and amende all such thinges as are amisse either in faithe or in good life If so then in case the realme went a stray shoulde not they redresse vs which were pastours and shepheards in Christes Church If our owne shepheards did amisse was there in all Christendom no true Bishoppes beside no faithfull pastour no right shepeheard Verely S. Augustine teacheth at large that it is not possible that the shepheards shoulde misse of the true doctrine What soeuer their life or maners be But put the case so that we may come to an issewe Must then the Prince fede vs alter our Religion sett vp a newe stop the shepheards mouthes plaie the shepheard him self Is this M. Horne the obedience that you teach Princes to shew to their shepheards God forgeue them that herein haue offended and God in whose hands the harts of Princes are inspire with his blessed grace the noble hart of our most gracious Souerain the Quenes Maiesty that her highnes may see and consider this horrible and deadly inconuenience to the which your most wicked and blasphemouse doctrine hath induced her grace You are the woulfe M. Horne And therfore no marueile if you procure to tie the shepheard fast and to mousell the dogges The .158 Diuision Pag. 97. b. M. Fekenham And when your L. shall be able to proue that these wordes of Paule Mulieres in Ecclesijs taceant c. Let the wemen kepe silence in the Churche for it is not permitted vnto them there to speake but let them liue vnder obedience like as the Law of God appointeth thē and if they be desirous to learne any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shameful and rebukeful thing for a woman to speake in the Church of Christ. When your L. shal be able to proue that these wordes of Paule were not as wel spoken of Quenes Duchesses and of noble Women as of the meane and inferiour sorte of Women like as these wordes of almightie God spoken in the plague and punishment first vnto our mother Eue for her offence and secondarily by her vnto al women without exception vidz Multiplicabo aerumnas c. I shal encrease thy dolours sorowes and conceiuings and in paine and trauaile thou shalt bring forth thy children thou shalt liue vnder the authority power of thy husbād and he shal haue the gouernment and dominion ouer thee Whan your L. shall be able to proue anye exception to be made eyther in these woordes spoken in the olde lawe by the mouth of God eyther in the wordes before spoken of the Apostle Paule in the newe than I shall in like māner yeelde and with most humble thankes thinke my selfe very well satisfied in conscience not onely touching all the afore alleaged testimonies but also in this seconde chiefe pointe M. Horne I doe graunte the vvoordes of the holie Scriptures in bothe these places to be spoken to al states of vvomen vvithout exception But vvhat make they for your purpose hovve doe they conclude and confirme your cause VVomen muste be silent in the Churche and are not permitted to speake That is as your ovvne Doctour Nicolaus de Lyra expoundeth it women muste not teache and preache the doctrine in the Churche neyther dispute openlye Therefore our Sauiour Christe dyd not committe to Kinges Queenes and Princes the Authoritie to haue and take vppon them .538 anye parte of gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes As .539 though a younge Nouice of your Munkishe ordre shoulde haue argued Nunnes muste keepe silence and maye not speake in the Cloysture nor yet at Dynner tyme in the fraytrie therefore your deceyuer the Pope dyd not committe Authoritie to his Prouincialles Abbottes Priores and Prioresses to haue and take vppon them the gouernement vnder hym selfe in Munkishe and Nunnishe causes and matters VVhat man vvoulde haue thought Maister Feckēham to haue had so .540 little consideration although vnlearned as to vouche the silence of vvomen in the Churche for a reason to improue the Authoritie of Princes in Churche causes The .3 Chapter Of M. Fekenhams third reason taken out of S. Paule also .1 Cor. 14. Stapleton MAister Feckenham his thirde reason is that women are not permitted to speake in the Church and therefore they can not be the heads of the Church To this M. Horn answereth first that this place of S. Paul must be vnderstanded of teaching preaching and disputing and that therfore it wil not follow thereof that they may not take vpō thē any gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes And then being merily
and of al other protestaÌ„t prelats without the realm of EnglaÌ„d no lesse then the Catholike bishopes in Germany or any other where And so staÌ„d you post alone in matters of religioÌ„ not to be informed instructed or corrected in any doubtefull matter or peril of schisme As though you had a warraÌ„t froÌ„ the holy Ghost neither to faile in the faith nor at any time to haue PriÌ„ces that may fayle For al this you annex aÌ„d vnite to the Crown of EnglaÌ„d for euer SeueÌ„thly aÌ„d last in excludiÌ„g aÌ„d renouÌ„cing euery forain Prelat aÌ„d al power Authority aÌ„d IurisdictioÌ„ of euery forain Prelat you exclude aÌ„d renouÌ„ce the whol body of the Church without the realm which coÌ„sisteth most ê“perly aÌ„d most effectually of the bishops aÌ„d prelats the heads therof And as in teÌ„poral IurisdictioÌ„ the othe bindeth al the subiects of the Realm of EnglaÌ„d to obey the only kings and Quenes of that Realm which we doe grauÌ„t also most gladly so that if al princes in the worlde woulde ioyne together aÌ„d coÌ„clude a kind of regimeÌ„t appoint lawes aÌ„d enact statutes for the better ordering aÌ„d directing of the coÌ„mon wealth the subiects of EnglaÌ„d by vertue of this othe are bouÌ„d to renouÌ„ce al such power except our own priÌ„ce would allow theÌ„ and coÌ„desceÌ„d thervnto which thing is reasonable enough for al couÌ„tries nede not to be gouerned in external maters after one sort nor at al times a like the state therof beiÌ„g chaÌ„geable aÌ„d mutable eueÌ„ so in spiritual or Ecclesiastical IurisdictioÌ„ the othe so expressely renounceth al power aÌ„d Autority of forain prelats that if al prelats aÌ„d bishops of the world beside wolde mete together or otherwise agre iÌ„ one truth order or law ecclesiastical which hath ofteÌ„ ben don and may alwaies be done in general CouÌ„cels the subiects of EnglaÌ„d are bouÌ„d vnder pain of periury aÌ„d of a praemunire to renouÌ„ce al such orders lawes aÌ„d decrees or coÌ„cluded Truthes which is shortly to say to renounce and forsweare al obedieÌ„ce to the General Councels that is the whole corps of Christendome represented therin except it shal please the priÌ„ce aÌ„d prelats of our CouÌ„tre to agre to the same Which is to make our priÌ„ce aÌ„d our prelats either as superiours to al other priÌ„ces aÌ„d CouÌ„tries or at the lest as alienats aÌ„d straÌ„gers froÌ„ the whole body of ChristendoÌ„ beside as though we had a proper Christ a proper Ghospell aÌ„d looked for a proper heaueÌ„ in the which other christened NatioÌ„s should find no place And what is this els but by booke Othe flatly to renouÌ„ce the Catholik Church aÌ„d the coÌ„munioÌ„ of Saints both which in our Crede we professe to beleue These be M. Horn the horrible absurdities that doth necessarily folow of this part of the Othe And wheras M. Horn sayth it were ouer much detestable if M. Fecknam were moued to sweare but against one article of our Crede M. Horn muste nedes confesse this othe to be ouer muche detestable whereby not onely M. Fekenham but many other are moued and forced to sweare againste an especiall article of our Crede to wit Against our obedience to the Catholyke Churche The effecte of the Othe and the sence of that Article being cleane contrary one to the other The which that it may to the vnlerned Reader more plainely appeare in this Table following I haue opened the whole contrariety THE TABLE The Article of our Crede I beleue the Catholike Churche Hereof ariseth this proposition as M. Fekenham by a similitude setteth it forth and M. Horn alloweth it fol. 100. b. All Englishmen being Christians ought to admitte and receyue professe and obey the Authority of the Catholike Church that is of the bishops of all Christendome of whome the greatest part are forayne prelats to our Realme in matters of faith and doctrine touching the same The contrary hereof is No Englishmen though Christians may admitte professe or obey any Authority of any forain prelat without the Realme of England The tenour of one parte of the Othe as M. Horne reporteth it pag. 99. b. All true subiectes ought and muste renounce and forsake all forraine iurisdictions povvers superiority preeminences and Authorities of euery forayn prince and prelat state or potentat The equiualent of this part of the Othe is No true subiect of England though Christian ought or may admitte and receyue any forraine Authority power or Iurisdiction of any forayne prelat Thus then the equiualent proposition of the Othe matcheth iumpe with the contrary of the Article and staÌ„deth cleane opposite to the equiualent of the Article Thus. The equiualeÌ„t proposition of the Article of our Crede is  The equiualent of the Othe is Al Englishmen being ChristiaÌ„s ought to admit and receiue the autority of forain prelats the most part of ChristeÌ„dome being to vs foraine in matters of faith and Doctrine touching the same by them authorised Contrary No Englishmen thoughe Christians ought or may admitte and receyue any forayne Authoritye of any forayne prelat Subalterne CONTRADICTORY CONTRADICTORY Subalterne Some Englishmen being ChristiaÌ„s ought to admitte and receyue the Authoritye of forayne prelats c. Subcontrary Some Englishmen being ChristiaÌ„s ought not to receiue and admit but to renounce and forsake al forayne authority of al forayn prelats c. By this it appeareth that the equiualent of the Othe is cleane contrary to the plaine sence of the Article of Our Crede sette forthe by M. Fekenham in the similitude of the members and the body and in the same similitude coÌ„fessed of M. Horne for good By this also it appereth that a true subiect taking the Othe meaning as he sweareth which if he doe not he forsweareth himselfe and a true Christian professing his Crede can not possibly stande together but are direct contrarye one to the other The one professiÌ„g obedieÌ„ce to the body of the Church coÌ„sistiÌ„g for the most and chiefest parte of forayne Bisshoppes as euery member must obey the whole body the other renouÌ„cing flatly all Authoritye of all forayne prelates as in dede no member of that Catholike body but as a schismaticall parte cutte of from the whole Then will it to our greate confusion of vs be verified which S. Augustine saieth Turpis omnis pars est suo vniuerso non congruens Filthye and shamefull is that parte which agreeth not with his whole And which is not only shamefull but most pernicious and daungerous of all what place shall then all General Councelles haue with vs Quorumest in Ecclesia saluberrima Authoritas whose Authority in the Church is most holesome saieth S. Augustin Verilye the Christen inhabitants of our Countre more then a thousande yeres paste had learned an other lesson For whereas the Pelagian heretikes hadde infected the Brittaynes with their pestiferous heresie the Brittaynes them selues being as venerable Bede recordeth neither willing to receaue their lewde doctrine neither able to refute theire wyly and wicked persuasions
this allwaies your Consequent I say vpon one or diuers particulars to conclude affirmatiuely an vniuersal For what one Emperour or Prince amonge so many so longe a succession and in so diuers countres haue you brought forthe by whose example by sufficiente enumeration of all partes ▪ you might logiquely and reasonably cōclude the affirmatiue vniuersal that is the Supreme gouernement in al spiritual or ecclesiastical thinges or causes You haue not M. Horne brought any one suche Shewe but one and I will allowe you in all And come you nowe to charge M. Fekenham with thys foule and euil consequent What Thought you so by preuention to blame M. Fekenhā that you might escape therby the blame your selfe or thought you we shoulde haue forgotten to charge you herewith excepte your selfe by charging an other had put vs in minde thereof Vpon this imagined Conclusion of M. Feckenhams you induce a dilemma that whether the Conclusion folow or not folow yet he shal alwaies remayne in some absurdite But we say that as he neuer made that consequent so also that it foloweth not Then say you If the Conclusion folowe not cōsequētly vpon the Antecedent ▪ than haue ye concluded nothing at al by Christes diuinity that may further the matter ye haue taken in hande to proue To the which I answere That M. Feckenham hereby fully cōcludeth his principall purpose For Commission of Spiritual gouernement being geuen as he reasoneth and you expresly cōfesse to Bishops immediatly from God by Christ him selfe true God not only in some but euen in the principall spirituall causes as to fede the Church with true doctrine to preache the worde to bind and loose to minister the Sacraments it foloweth euidētly that the Prince is not the Supreme Gouernour in al Spiritual causes And that the Acte hath wrongfully geuen to the Prince the ful authorising for al maner of spiritual causes in any wise concerning any Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be vsed and exercised by persons when and as often and for such and so long time as it shal please the Prince to authorise them It foloweth I saye that the Acte hath wrongfully geuen al this to the Princes authorising seeing that God him selfe hath already geauen it to the Apostles and their successours Bishops and Priestes in his Churche without any cōmission or authorisatiō for any prince of the earth whatsoeuer God hath your self say M. Horn geuē to the Bisshops sufficiēt cōmission for the discharge of their cures It were therfore you say an horrible absurdity if they might not exercise any iurisdictiō ouer thē by that cōmissiō without a furder cōmission frō the Quenes highnes But bothe by the practise in king Edwardes daies at what time by the Kings letters patēts bishops had a special cōmissiō to minister the Sacraments and to preach the word frō the Prince and at the Princes pleasure as it hath before ben declared ād also by the plaine Act in the Quenes M. daies now reigning bishops can not exercise vse or execute any Spiritual iurisdiction without the Authorising naming and assigning of the Prince yea and that no oftener nor no longer then it shall please the Prince to Authorise them so that beeing a Bishoppe to daye to morowe by the Acte he shall be none if it please the Prince to dissauthorise him or discharge him Ergo by Maister Hornes own confession and plaine constante assertion bothe in King Edwardes dayes and now in the Acte an horrible absurdity is committed You haue saied M. Horne a great deale more against the Acte then euer M. Feckenham saied Beare therefore with him and vs I pray you yf to auoide such an horrible absurdity bothe he and we refuse the Othe of this acte Some reason I perceiue M. Sampson and D. Humfrey of Oxford had when they refused this othe being tendred vnto them by a Commission They saw it was in dede a most horrible absurdity so to weakē Gods authority that it must yet not of congruite but of necessite and by force of lawe be bolstered as of it selfe insufficient with the Princes authorising and letters patents The sawe it was a great impiety that bishops and Pastours by Gods lawe ordayned to suche offices should not oftener exercise their offices nor no lenger remaine in the saied offices then it should please the Prince for the time to Authorise them and allowe them Therefore these men them selues no doubte true subiectes to the Quenes highnes and well willers to her Maiest Person refused yet this Othe as is aboue saied But what a conclusion is this M. Horne how fowle an absurdity is it to take the Othe of supreme gouernemente in al spiritual thinges or causes in which Othe also you say nothing may be excepted for if you except any it is not al these are your owne wordes and yet to make nowe a limitatiō and to except so many and so principall causes ecclesiasticall in the which as you say also the Prince hath no gouernement at all but only the Bishops as hauing sufficient commission herein from God him selfe Whereas if there were in dede any limitation by the Acte expressed or intēded as there is not in dede any at all in the Authorising of mete persons to execute all maner of spirituall Iurisdictions it were yet open and manifest periury to sweare to a supreme gouernement in all causes without exception What yf you and your felowes intende not or meane not al maner spirituall causes Can this excuse them which sweare to all from manifest periury How many haue receyued the Othe which neuer vnderstode worde of any suche limitatiō If you meane in dede a limitatiō M. Horne procure thē that the limitation be put to the Othe expresly that men may sweare to no more then is intended Els if you intangle mens soules in open periury vnder a couert limitation assure your selfe you and al other the procurers hereof shal answer full derely to God for all the soules that hereby haue perished And assure your self that as the holy ghost infallibly threatneth he wil come as a quicke witnesse against al periured and forsworen persons Neither yet doth the limitatiō excuse thē frō periury which sweare Princes to be supreme gouernors in some spirituall causes who are in dede no gouernours at al in such causes nor euer had by the lawe of God any spiritual charge or Iurisdictiō cōmitted vnto them But yet if this limitation were annexed the periury were the lesse and the dealing were more playne though not therfore good In the meane while you which force men to sweare to al ecclesiastical causes and yet will except so many ecclesiastical causes how vnreasonably ād how absurdely do you write But of these your contradictory assertions I haue before spoken If I should here aske M. Horne ▪ what Authorite the parliament had to geue to the Prince all or any Iurisdiction at all in matters mere spiritual that parliament especially consisting only
imperij but did openly reproue the King for his wicked and vniust rule or cōmaundement vvherby is manifest that Athanasius speaketh .657 not against the Princes authority in Ecclesiastical matters but against his tiranny and the abusing of that authority vvhich God hath geuē him vvhervvith to mynister vnto Gods vvil and not to rule after his ovvne luste they commende the authority but they reproue the disorderly abuse thereof Novv let vs see hovv this saying of Athanasius helpeth your cause Constantius the Emperour dealt vnorderly and after his ovvne lust against Athanasius and others pretending neuerthelesse the iudgement of Bisshops vvhich Athanasius misliketh as is plaine in this place auouched Ergo Bisshoppes and Priestes may make lavves decrees orders and exercise the second kind of Cohibitiue Iurisdiction ouer their flockes and cures vvithout commission from the Prince or other authority I doubt not but yee see such faulte in this sequele that yee .658 are or at least ye ought to be ashamed therof The .12 Chap. Conteyning a Confutation of M. Hornes answer made to the woordes of Athanasius Stapleton HEre is nowe one other allegation by M. Fekenham proposed out of Athanasius Hosius the Bisshop of Corduba saith M. Fekenham who was present at the first Nicene Councel hath these wordes as Athanasius writing against the Emperour Constantius doth testifie Yf this be a iudgement of Bisshops what hath the Emperour to do there with But one the contrary parte yf these thinges be wrought by the threates and menaces of Emperour what neade is there of anye men besides to beare the Bare Title of Bisshoppes When from the beginning of the worlde hath it bene heard of that the iudgement of the Churche toke his authority of the Emperour Or when hath this at any tyme bene agnised for a iudgement Many synodes haue ben before this tyme many Councels hath the Church holden but the tyme is yet to come that either the fathers went about to persuade the Prince any such matter or the Prince shewed him selfe to be curiouse in matters of the Churche But nowe we haue a spectacle neuer sene before browght in by Arrius heresye The heretikes and the Emperour Constantius are assembled that he may vnder the colour and title of Bisshops vse his power against whome it pleaseth him M. Horne to this allegation aunswereth that M. Fekenham doth Athanasius threfolde wronge c. To the first wronge I replie that putting the case that these are not Hosius his words but Athanasius M. Fekenhams matter is nothing thereby hindered but rather furthered considering the excellent authority that Athanasius hath and euer had in the Churche And Hosius hath euen in the said epistle of Athanasius and but one leaf before a much like sentence proceding of a couragious and a godly boldenes Medle not you Syr Emperour saieth he to the forsayed Constantius with matters Ecclesiastical neither cōmaund vs in this parte but rather learne these thinges of vs. God hath committed to you the Empire and to vs those things that appertaine to the Churche And therefore euen as he that maligneth and spiteth your Empire doeth contrarie Gods ordinance so take ye head least ye in medling with matters of the Church doe not runne into some greate offence Whereas for the second wrong done to Athanasius you say that M. Fekenham hath lefte one material word out of Athanasius ye haue turned that worde to one halfe hundred wordes with a nedelesse declaration the space of one whole leafe at the least And yet you neuer come nigh the matter Beside such is your wisedome ye alleage in this your extraordinarie glose an epistle of S. Ambrose which doth so cōfirme M. Fekenhams present allegation and is so agreable to Athanasius ād so disagreable to the cheife principle of al this your boke that I maruel that euer ye would ones name it vnlesse ye neuer read it your self but trusted the collector of your cōmon places For the law of Valentinian whereof we spake before is in that epistle to the yong Valentian Whē euer heard you sayth he that in a cause of faith lay mē gaue iudgment vpon a Bishoppe If we will peruse and ouerloke either the order of holie write or the Auncient tyme who is there that will denie that in matter of Faythe I saie saieth S. Ambrose in matter of faieth but that the Bishoppes are wonte to iudge vppon the Emperours and not the Emperours vppon the Bishoppes He saith againe afterward If there be any conference to be had touching the faith it must be had emong the Priestes And how this doctrine of S. Ambrose which is the doctrine of the catholike Church and most conformable to the saying of Athanasius agreeth either with your late acte of parliament wherby the catholik bishops were deposed or with the doctrine of your boke euery man may see Yea S. Ambrose saieth yet farder that the Emperour Valētiniā whose sonne being enduced thereto by the Arrian bishop Auxētius woulde nedes call the bishop before his benche and Iudge ouer him made an expresse lawe that In matter of faithe or of any ecclesiastical order he should iudge that were neither by office vnequal neither by right vnlike That is as S. Ambrose him selfe expoundeth it Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare He woulde haue Priestes to iudge ouer Priestes And not only in matters ecclesiastical or of faithe but saieth S. Ambrose Si aliâs argueretur Episcopus morū esset examinanda causa etiā hanc voluit ad Episcopale iudiciū pertinere If otherwise also a Bishop were accused and a question touching maners were to be examined this question also that Emperour woulde haue to belonge to the trial and Iudgement of Bishops Here you haue that yt belongeth not to Princes to be iudges vppon priests either in matters of faith either in matters touching liuing and māners which doth vtterly destroy al your new primacy and your late acte of Parliament deposing the right Bishoppes as I haue saide And we are wel contente that councelles shoulde be free from al feare and that Princes shoulde not appointe or prescribe to Bishops howe they should iudge as ye declare owt of Athanasius and S. Ambrose Let this be as muche material as ye wil to a bishoply iudgmēte But I pray you is there nothing else that Athanasius saieth is material to the same Yes truely One of these materiall thinges was that this Councel was made voyde and annichilated for that Iulius the Pope did not consent to yt as the canons of the Churche require which commaunde that neither councel be kepte nor Bishoppes condemned withowte the Authoritie of the Bishoppe of Rome And therefore Iulius did rebuke the Arrians that they did not first of all require his aduice which they knewe was the Custome they shoulde and take their definitiō from Rome This Pope also did restore Athanasius againe to his Bishopprike as your
gouernment in .62 all manner causes either Temporal or Spiritual euen so the chiefest or beste parte of their Seruice or Ministery to consist in the vvel ordering of Church matters and their diligēt rule and care therein to be the moste thankefull acceptable and duetifull Seruice that they can doe or ovve vnto God The .19 Chapter Answering to the sayinges of Eusebius and Nicephorus touching Constantin and Emanuel Emperours Stapleton I See you not M. Horne come as yet nere the matter I see not yet that Constantin changed Religion plucked down aultars deposed bisshops c. But that he was diligent in defending the old and former faith of the Christiās If S. Paul cal the ciuil magistrat a minister because through feare he cōstraineth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrin as by your saying S. Chrysostom cōstrueth it we are wel cōtent therewith And withal that the best ministery and seruice of the great Constantin rested in the settinge forth of Christes true religion and that he preached the same with his Imperiall decrees and proclamations as ye oute of Eusebius recyte Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor al the residewe which ye reherse of this Constantin with whose doings ye furnishe hereafter six ful leaues can importe this superiority as we shal there more at large specifie In the meane season I say it is a stark and most impudēt lye that ye say without any prouf Cōstantin was taught of the bisshops that Princes haue the gouernment in al maner causes either tēporal or spirituall You conclude after your maner facingly and desperatlye without any proufe or halfe proufe in the worlde M. Horne The Diuision .24 Pag. 17. b For this .63 cause also Nicephorus in his Preface before his Ecclesiastical history doth compare .64 Emanuel Paleologus the Emperour to Constantin for that he did so neerly imitate his duetifulnes in ruling procuring and reforming religiō to the purenesse thereof VVhich among al vertues belōging to an Emperor is most seemely for the imperial dignity and doth expresse it most truely as Nicephorus saieth vvho maketh protestatiō that he saith nothing in the commendatiō of this Emperour for fauour or to flatter but as it vvas true in deede in him And so reherseth his .65 noble vertues exercised in discharge of his imperial duety tovvards God in Church matters saying to the Emperour who hath glorified God more and shewed more feruēt zele towards hī in pure religiō without feyning thā thou hast don who hath with such feruēt zeale fought after the most sincere faith much endaungered or clēsed again the holy Table whē thou sawest our true religion brought into perill with newe deuises brought in by cōterfaict and naughty doctrines thou diddest defende it most painfully and wisely Thou diddest shew thy selfe to be the mighty supreme and very holy anchour and stay in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to fainte and to perish as it were with shipwrak Thou art the guid of the profession of our faith Thou hast restored the Catholik and Vniuersal Churche being troubled with new matters or opinions to the old state Thou hast banished frō the Church al vnlawful and impure doctrin Thou hast clēsed again with the vvord of trueth the tēple frō choppers and chaungers of the diuin doctrin and frō heretical deprauers thereof Thou hast been set on fier vvith a godly zeale for the diuine Table Thou hast established the doctrin thou hast made Cōstitutions for the same Thou hast entrēched the true religion vvith mighty defenses That vvhich vvas pulled dovvne thou hast made vp againe and haste made the same whole and sound again vvith a conueniēt knitting togeather of al the partes and mēbers to be shorte thou haste saith Nicephorus to the Emperour established true Religion and godlines vvith spiritual buttresses namely the doctrine and rules of the aūcient Father◠Stapleton Where ye say for this cause also c. This is no cause at all but it is vntrue as of the other Emperour Cōstantinus and much more vntrue as ye shall good reader straight way vnderstande But firste we will dissipate and discusse the myste that M. Horne hath caste before thyne eies and wherein him self walketh either ignorantly or maliciously or both Ye shal then vnderstande that among many other errours and heresies wherwith the Grecians were infected and poysoned they helde cōtrary to the Catholike faith that the holy ghost did not procede from the father and the sonne but from the father onely In which heresie they dwelt many an hundred yeare At the length abowte 300. yeares paste the Emperour of Grece called Michael Paleologus came to the generall Councell kepte at Lions Where the Grecians with the Latin Church accorded aswel in that point as for the Popes supremacy both in other matters and cōcerning the deuoluing of matters frō Grece to Rome by way of appeale This Michael being dead the Grecians reuolted to their olde heresie against the holy ghost and for the maliciouse spyte they had against the Catholike faith their Bisshops would not suffer him to be buried The author of the homely agaist Idolatry as it is entituled calleth this Emperour wrongfully Theodorum Lascarim and saieth most ignorantly and falsly that he was depriued of his Empire because in the Councel of Lions he relented and set vp images in Grece Whereas he was not put frō his Empire but from his royal burial as I haue said neither any word was moued in the said councell of Images nor any Images of newe by him were set vppe which had customably continued in the Greeke Churche manye hundred yeares before and so reuerently afterwarde continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke And yet this good antiquarye and chronographer will nedes haue the Grecians about a .700 yeares together with a most notorious lie to haue bene Iconomaches that is Image breakers Much other foolish blasphemouse babling is conteined in that Homilie Yea many other shamelesse lies are there to disgrace deface and destroy the Image of Christ and his Saints especially one Whereas he saith that the Emperour Valens and Theodosius made a Proclamation that no man shoulde painte or kerue the Crosse of Christ. And therevpon gaily and iolilye triumpheth vpon the Catholiques Whereas the Proclamation neither is nor was to restreine all vse of the Crosse but that it should not be painted or kerued vppon the ground Which these good Emperours not Valens for he was the valiaunt Capitaine and defendour of the Arrians but Valentinianus and Theodosius did of a great godly reuerence they had to the Crosse enact And yet as grosse as foule and as lowd liyng a fetche as this is M. Iewel walketh euē in the very same steppes putting Valens for Valentinian and alleaging this Edict as generall against al Images of the Crosse. And yet these Homilies the holy learned Homilies of the olde Fathers namely of Venerable Bede our
his own supreme Authority depose and set vp bisshops and Priests make Iniunctions of doctrine prescribe order of Gods seruice enact matters of religion approue and disproue Articles of the faith take order for administration of Sacraments commaunde or put to silence preachers determine doctrine excommunicat and absolue with such like which all are causes ecclesiastical and al apperteyning not to the inferiour ministerye which you graunt to Priestes and bisshops onely but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernment which you doe annexe to the Prince onely This I say is the state of the Question now present For the present Question betwene you and M. Fekenham is grounded vppon the Othe comprised in the Statute which Statute emplieth and concludeth al these particulars For concealing whereof you haue M. Horne in the framing of your ground according to the Statute omitted cleane the ij clauses of the Statute folowing The one at the beginning where the Statute saith That no forayn person shall haue any maner of Authority in any spirituall cause within the Realme By which wordes is flatly excluded all the Authority of the whole body of the Catholike Church without the Realme As in a place more conuenient toward the end of the last book it shal by Gods grace be euidently proued The other clause you omitte at the ende of the said Satute which is this That all maner Superiorities that haue or maye lawfully be exercised for the visitatiō of persons Ecclesiasticall and correcting al maner of errours heresies and offences shall be for euer vnited to the Crowne of the Realme of Englande Wherein is employed that yf which God forbidde a Turke or any heretike whatsoeuer shoulde come to the Crowne of Englande by vertu of this Statute and of the Othe al maner superioritye in visiting and correcting Ecclesiastical persones in al maner matters should be vnited to him Yea and euery subiecte should sweare that in his conscience he beleueth so This kinde of regiment therefore so large and ample I am right wel assured ye haue not proued nor euer shal be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue When I say this kinde of regiment I walke not in confuse and general words as ye doe but I restrayne my self to the foresaid particulars now rehersed and to that platte forme that I haue already drawen to your hand and vnto the which Maister Fekenham must pray you to referre and apply your euidences Otherwise as he hath so may he or any man els the chiefe pointes of all being as yet on your side vnproued still refuse the Othe For the which doinges neither you nor any man else can iustly be greued with him As neither with vs M. Horne ought you or any mā els be greued for declaring the Truth in this point as yf we were discōtēted subiects or repyning against the obediēce we owe to our Gracious Prince and our Countre For beside that we ought absolutely more obey God then man and preferre the Truth which our Sauiour himself protested to be encouraging al the faithful to professe the Truth and geuing them to wit that in defending that they defended Christ himself before al other worldly respects whatsoeuer beside al this I say whosoeuer wil but indifferently consider the matter shal see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Quenes Mai. gouernement by the Statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembling silence then the Catholikes doe by open and plain contradiction For whereas the Statute and the Othe to the which all must swere expresseth A supreme gouernment in al thinges and causes without exception Maister Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this general decree and amplyfying that litle which he geueth to the Quenes Maiesty with copy of wordes ful statutelyke he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the Statute the principal cause ecclesiasticall and most necessary mete and conuenient for a Supreme Gouernour Ecclesiasticall What is that you aske Forsoth Iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessary in the Churche then that the Supreme gouernour thereof should haue power in al doubtes and controuersies to decide the Truthe and to make ende of questioning This in the Statute by Maister Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of al thinges and causes Ecclesiastical this is absolutelye the chiefest Yea and who seeth not that by the vertue of this Statute the Quenes Maiesty hath iudged determined and enacted a new Religiō contrary to the iudgement of all the Bisshops and clergy in the Conuocation represented of her highnes dominions Yea and that by vertue of the same Authority in the last paliament the booke of Articles presented and put vp there by the consent of the whole conuocation of the newe pretended clergy of the Realme and one or ij only excepted of al the pretended Bisshops also was yet reiected and not suffred to passe Agayne preachinge the woorde administration of the Sacramentes binding and loosing are they not thinges and causes mere Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall And howe then are they here by you omitted Maister Horne Or howe make you the Supreme gouernment in al causes to rest in the Quenes Maiesty yf these causes haue no place there Which is nowe better I appeale to al good consciences plainly to maintayne the Truthe then dissemblinglye to vpholde a falshood Plainly to refuse the Othe so generallye conceyued then generally to sweare to it beinge not generallye meaned But now let vs see how M. Horne wil direct his proufes to the scope appointed THE SECOND BOOKE DISPROVING THE PRETENSED PRActise of Ecclesiastical gouernement in Emperours and Princes of the first .600 yeares after Christ. M. Horne The .28 Diuision pag. 19. b. Constantinus of vvhose careful gouernmēt in Church causes I haue spoken somevvhat before tooke vpon him and did exercise the 70. supreme rule and gouernement in repressing al maner Idolatrie and false Relligion in refourming and promoting the true religion and in restreining and correcting al maner errours schismes heresies and other enormities in or about religion and vvas moued herevnto of duety euen by Gods vvorde as he him self reporteth in a vehemēt prayer that he maketh vnto God saiyng I haue takē vpō me and haue brought to passe helthful things meaning reformation of Religion being perswaded therevnto by thy word And publishing to all Churches after the Councel at Nice vvhat vvas there done he professeth that in his iudgement the chiefest end and purpose of his Imperial gouernement ought to be the preseruation of true religiō and godly quietnes in al Churches I haue iudged saith this godlye Emperoure this ought before all other thinges to be the ende or purpose wherevnto I should addresse my power and authority in gouernement that the vnitie of faith pure loue and agreemēt of religiō towardes the
openly in the Councell of Chalcedon that he was present there after the example of Constantine not to shew his power but to confirme his faith And Saint Gregorie putting Mauritius the Emperoure who in a chafe had called him foole in mynde of the duety he owed to Gods ministers rippeth vp to him particularlye this verye fact of Constantine refusing to iudge vpon the bishopes complayntes c. and addeth in the end as an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 these woordes In qua tamen sententia pie Domine sibi magis ex humilitate quà m illis aliquid praestitit ex reuerentia impensa In which sentence yet my good Lorde Constantyne more profited him self by humilitie then he did the Bishopes by the reuerence he shewed them It was saieth Saint Gregorye Reuerentia impensa a reuerence shewed to the bishopes that Constantine would not iudge ouer their complaintes It was politikelye done saieth M. Horne Such a politike prelate hath Winchester diocese of him Verely of that notable See with such prelates lately beautified and now of this man so contaminated we may say as Cicero saied of Pompey the greate his palace possessed of Anthonie that Infamous Rybalde O domus antiqua qÌ„ dispari Domino dominaris For with the like sincerity doe you through the whole booke procede sometyme flatly belying somtyme nypping their sentences but wel nere continually concealing the circumstances and whole effect of your alleaged Authours as we shal in the processe see M. Horne The .36 Diuision Pag. 23. b The next day after they assembled at the Emperours palayce he commaunded them to goe into the Councel house to consult of the matter the couÌ„cel house vvas vvithin Themperors pallayce trimly furnished vvith seates aptly ordred for such purpose as it vvere in rovves They entred in and vvayted vvithout any doings til the comming of the Emperour vvhose seat vvas of gold placed at the first beginning of the rovves .90 vvho being entred and placed in his seate maketh an oration vnto them declaring the contentioÌ„s sproÌ„g vp amoÌ„gest them selues to be the occasion vvherefore he called theÌ„ together and the ende is saith he that this disease might be healed through my ministery After this he maketh an earnest exhortation mouing them to quietnes forgiuing one an other for Christ commaundeth saith he that vvho vvil receiue pardon at his hande shal also forgiue his brethern After this most graue exhortation to vnity and concorde in truth he geueth them .91 leaue to consult of the matters in hande prescribeth vnto them a .92 rule vvhereby they must measure trie and discusse these and .93 al other such disputations and controuersies in matters of religion to vvitte Sanctissimi spiritus doctrinam praescriptam The doctrine of the most holy spirit before writen For saieth he the bookes of the Euangelistes and of the Apostles and also the Prophecies of the olde Prophetes doe euidently teache vs of Gods meaning VVherefore laying a syde al discorde of enemity let vs take the explications of our questioÌ„s out of the sayings of the holy Ghost VVhen the parties vvaxed vvarme in the disputations and the contention somvvhat sharpe then the Emperour as a vvise moderatour and ruler vvoulde discourage none but myldely caulmed such as he savv ouer hasty vvith milde vvoordes coolinge their heate and commended such as reasoned deeply vvith grauity Stapleton In all this talke is naught els but a heape of vntruthes aÌ„d vaine gheasses nothing to the principall purpose materiall which will well appeare in a more open declaration of that which you haue patchedly and obscurely shewed as it were a farre of to your Reader concealing as your maner is all that any thing concerneth the Bishops authoritie in those matters First then you tell vs out of Eusebius that Constantine in the Councell of Nice sate in a seat of golde placed at the first beginning of the rowes But you leaue out Modica a small seate or as Theodoret also calleth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sitting in the middest in a low seate You conceale also that whiche Eusebius your alleaged author in that very place addeth Non prius in ea sedit quà m annuâ—ssent Episcopi He sate not downe before the Bishops had geauen him leaue For so importeth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed by Eusebius and Theodoret also Which declareth very well the Bishops superioritie in the Councell where matters of faithe were to be treated Nowe where you adde out of Theodoret that the Emperoure should geue the Bisshops leaue to consult c. Theodoret in the place alleaged hath no such wordes You imagine by like the Bishops had of the Emperoure suche a licence as your English Statutes require That the Conuocation shall make no Ecclesiasticall lawe without the Kings consent No No. Constantine demeaned not him selfe so stately You haue heard what his behauiour was and shal heare yet farder by your next vntruth which is this You say th'Emperour prescribed them a rule whereby they shoulde measure trye and discusse these and all other such disputations c. But you say it vntruely For immediately after the wordes by you alleaged to shew therby the Emperours rule and prescription Theodoret addeth These things and such like he vttered as a naturall louing child to the Priestes as to his Fathers If Children prescribe rules to their Fathers when they geue them good counsail then did also Constantine here prescribe a rule to the Bishops But if so to say is more then childish consider M. Horne how like a babe ye haue reasoned against the authority of such blessed Fathers the Fathers of that most holy and learned Councell Verely S. Ambrose who knew I trow better what was done in the Nicene Councel then M. Horne doth and is of somewhat more credite too reporteth farre otherwise of CoÌ„stantines doings then M. Horne couÌ„terfeiteth Thus he saith And I pray you M. Horne marke his saiyng wel Si coÌ„ferenduÌ„ de fide saderdotum debet esse ista collatio sicut factuÌ„ est sub CoÌ„stantino Augustae memoriae principe qui nullas leges antè praemisit sed liberum dedâ—t iudiciuÌ„ sacerdotibus If confereÌ„ce must be had of the faith this coÌ„ference ought to be kept of Priests as it was done in the time of CoÌ„stantine a Prince of noble memory who wheÌ„ coÌ„trouersy of the faith sproÌ„g vp did not before prescribe any lawes but left to the Priestes the free iudgemeÌ„t and determination Yet saith M. Horne that CoÌ„stantine prescribed to the Bisshops a rule wherby they should measure trye and discusse the controuersie in hande Wherin obserue diligently gentle Reader that S. Ambrose is direct contrary to M. Horne not only touching this particular fact of Constantine the one saiyng thaâ— he prescribed before hand no lawes at all but left to the Bishops the triall of the controuersie free the other auouching that he prescribed a rule to trie and discusse the matter by but also touching the whole estate
had the Bisshops at his commaundement to kepe Councels and conuocations at his pleasure yea and that they referred their Decrees to his iudgement But now so it is in dede that neither the Prince proceded herein by way of meare commaundememente neither the bisshoppes referred to him any such Iudgement ouer their determinated Sentence For proufe of the first both the Bisshoppes in this very Councel at Orleans doe say to the Kinge that they haue deliberated vpon these matters secundùm vestrae voluntatis consultationem according to the cōsultation kept by your wil and the Bisshoppes of an other Councell holden after this at Toures in Fraunce also doe say of this Synode quam inuictissimus Rex Clodoueus fieri supplicauit which the mighty King Clodoueus made sute to be called But because as the lawiers do note the wil of a Prince and the wil of a father doe not differ from their commaundement therefore that Councel which the King by suite and supplication obtayned to be called is yet termed to be done praecepto iussione by commaundement of the Bisshoppes themselues at the Councell For proufe of the seconde I bring you the woordes of the Councel which you in telling your tale thought good to leaue out The bishoppes doe say vnto the Prince Definitione respondimus c. We haue by determining answered to the intent that yf those thīgs which we haue decreed be approued right also by your Iudgement the Sentence of so many bisshoppes may confirme and strenghthen the Authority of such a consent as of the Kinge and greate Stuarde to be obserued In which wordes they referre not the Definition to his Iudgement but doe shewe that yf his consent doe concurre then his Authority is confirmed by the verdite of Bisshops so great and so manye But ye say they confesse him to haue the superiority And those wordes ye couche craftely among the rest to make your Reader thinke that the King had the Superiority in approuing doctrine But this is an vntruth They cal hī in dede Regem ac Dominum maiorem their Kinge or greate Stuard Which is in respecte of temporal things and of his worldly principality not of any Superiority in allowing or disallowing their Synodical decrees And I praye you good Sir was Saphoracus deposed by the Kinge or by the Bishops and was he as you say deposed for his iuste demerits It had bene wel done to haue tolde vs why he deserued to be deposed But I suppose either ye know yt not or else ye wil not be knowen thereof lyke a wyly shrewe Forsurelye as farre as I can gather yt was for that he being a Bisshoppe vsed the company of his wyfe which he maried before he was prieste contrarye to the olde canons and a late order taken in the Councell at Orlyans Yf it be so in what case be you with your madge pretending her to be your lawfull wyfe yea and that after your takinge of holye orders M. Horne The .64 Diuision pag. 37. a. Theodobertus Kinge of Fraunce calleth a Synode at Auerna in Fraunce for the restoring and establishing the Church discipline Gunthranus the King called a Synod named Matisconēs .2 to refourme the Ecclesiastical discipline and to cōfirm certein orders and ceremonies in the Church vvhich he declareth plainly in the Edict that he setteth foorth for that purpose VVherein he declareth his vigilant and studious carefulnes to haue his people trained and brought vp vnder the feare of God in true Religion and godly discipline for othervvise saith this Christian King to whom God hath committed .176 this charge shall not escape his vengeaunce He shevveth the bisshops that their office is to .177 teache cōfort exhort to reproue rebuke ond correct by preaching the vvorde of God He commaundeth the elders of the Church and also others of authority in the common vveale to iudge and punish that they assiste the bisshops and sharpely punishe by bodely punishement such as vvil not amende by the rebuke and correction of the vvorde and Church discipline And concludeth that he hath caused the Decrees in the Councel touching discipline and certein ceremonies to be defined the vvhich he doth publishe and cōfirme by the authority of this Edict Stapleton We haue nowe two Kings more of Fraunce But in both these to proue your purpose you haue nothing King Gūtranus himself confesseth in the place by you alleaged that God hath committed to the Priests the office of a fatherly authoritye And sheweth to what ende the Princes medle withe matters of religion that is that the sworde may amende such persons as the preachers worde can not amende And yt is worthy to be considered that among other decrees that this Councel made and the King confirmed yt was ordayned that the Laye man where so euer he mette a priest should shewe him reuerence and honour And in case the Prieste wente a fote and the Laye man ridde the Laye mā should a light and so reuerence him as now the Christians are cōpelled to doe in Turkey to the Turks And so I trowe this Councel maketh not al together for your purpose and supposed Primacy Only it maketh to encreace the nombre of your vntruthes For wheras you first talke of the Princes vigilant and studiouse carefulnes to see the people brought vppe in true religion and godly discipline you adde as the Princes woordes Otherwise I to whome God hath committed this charge shall not escape his vengeaunce In making the Prince to saye this charge you woulde make your Reader thinke the Prince acknowledged a Charge ouer true Religion c. And therefore you put in the margin to beutifie your booke withal A princes charge But the Prince speaketh of no such charge as shall anone appeare And when you adde to this that the Prince shewed the bisshoppes that their office is to teache c. there you leaue out absque nostrae admonitione without our admonishment by which appeareth the Bishops knew their office though the Prince held his peace and that it depended not of the Princes supreme gouernment as you would haue folcke to think These couple of vntruthes shal now euidently appeare by the whole wordes of the King as they were in order by him vttered which you haue confusely set out putting the later parte before the first and the first laste adding in one place and nipping in an other thus to blinde and bleare your Readers eies whome plainly you ought to instruct For these are the wordes of Kinge Guntranus to the bishops of Mascon Althoughe without our admonition to you holy bisshops specially belongeth the matter of preaching yet we thinke verily you are partakeners of other mens sinnes if you correct not with dailye rebuking the faultes of your children but passe them ouer in silence For neither we to whom God hath committed the kingdome can escape his vengeaunce yf we be not hofull of the people subiect vnto vs.
to the bishop of Hierusalē which kept there also a Councel and condēned Anthimus And al this was done in fowre monethes And therfore yt cā not be the true title of this Coūcel And much lesse tel the matter and who had cheif authority there But euery man is not so cunning as you to make men weene that the egge was a chycke before the henne had hatched Yet for one thinge I here commende you for telling vs that the Popes Legats in this Councel were set in the right hande of the Patriarche Menas whiche I suppose maketh somwhat for the Popes primacye But that you adde they were named and appointed by the commaundement of the Emperour I can not commēde you For it is vntruly saied They were the Popes owne Legates and deputies of his own naming and appointing not of the Emperours For it foloweth in the same Constitution of Iustinian touching these Legates Omnibus quidem ex Italica regione ab Apostolica sede nuper missis All being lately sent out of Italy from the See Apostolike In like maner where you say Theodorus a Maister of the Requestes to the Emperour as you call him deliuered to the Synod the Billes of supplication to be considered on such consideration you finde not in the woordes of Theodorus but this you finde him say to the Synode V◠in his interpellantes vos ipsis finem imponatis To th entent that by your meanes in these matters they may be ended and cōcluded This the Emperours officer required of the Synode that they would make an ende of the complaintes layed in by certaine Bisshoppes and Monkes And this you conceale and alter cleane to a simple consideration as thoughe the Councel should haue considered and then the Emperour concluded And therefore yet ones againe in this very Diuision you tel vs of a booke of supplication made by the Monasteries of Secunda Syria to the Emperour that Menna the president of the Councel should receaue their booke and consider of it according to the Ecclesiastical Canons The woordes of your Author are Quae in ipso insita sunt Canonicè finem accipere conuenientibus ad ipsum c. that the contents of their booke of supplication be ended and determined Cononically not considered only and that by the accorde not of Menna only whome only you name being the bisshop of Constantinople but of the most holy Romaines and the holy Synode Thus your false doctrine can not appeare when it commeth to trial but lodē alwaies with fardels of vntruths But nowe I trowe we shall quickly lese this aduantage For strayte ye bringe vs foorth a bisshop that calleth the Emperour the higheste potentate in the worlde next vnto God maintayning the onely and pure faith offeringe vnto God pure leuen of true doctrine as incense and burning the chaff meaning as ye say false religion with vnquencheable fier And thinke you M Horne that yf Iustiniā now lyued he would take your doctrine for pure fyne flower and not rather for stynking musty chaffe or bran Well you haue hearde his iudgemente in parte alredy As for your bsshop yf he had sayd in al causes as you make hī to say in the margin he had said wel towarde your purpose but nothing towarde the truthe And therefore ye hauing espied the former wordes not to come iumpe to your purpose ye vndershore them withe an other sayinge of the saied bisshoppe who speakinge of an heretyke desireth the Emperour to whome God had reserued the ful authority to directe to cut him from the Church and to expulse him out of his dominions Ye are not for al this much the nearer for wherein the good bisshop meante the full direction he him selfe sheweth that is in cutting away of heretiks and expulsing them out of his dominiōs And therefore your goodly marginal note that God reserueth to the Prince the fulnesse of direction in causes Ecclesiasticall quayleth and is not worth a rushe Neither is yt to be collected by the expresse woordes of the bishop and yf yt were sauing for your shrewd meaning and mistaking yt were not greatly material For it might stād right wel meaning of the ful and final directiō which is the executiō Ye now lay forth many ecclesiastical cōstitutions and among other that no mā shal dispute further in matters of religiō ons concluded where are your Westmynster disputations thē and that themperour had decreed all those things by sentence for the common peace of the Church Ye say the truth but not all the truth for ye haue most falsly following your accustomable humour left out iij. or iiij wordes strayt waies following We haue saith Iustinian determined these things following the decrees of the holy fathers Which wordes doe set your self and your primacy to quyt beside the sadle And thus as thēperours conclusion that knitteth vp al knitteth vp our conclusion to for the ecclesiastical primacy and vnfoldeth al your false conclusiōs in this your false boke So yf ye take and ioyne the very beginning of the said constitutiō to the wynding vp of yt the matter wil be much clearer and so clere that Iustiniās cōstitutiō that your self do bring forth may serue for a sufficiēt answere to al your boke cōcerning princes intermedling in causes Ecclesiastical We do saith Iustiniā no strāge thīg or such as thēperors haue not ben accustomed vnto before in makīg this present Law meaning against Anthimus Seuerus and Zoaras for as often as the bishops by their sentence haue deposed and displaced out of their holysees and dignities any vnworthy parsons as Nestorius Eutyches Arius Macedonius and Eunomius and certain other as nawghty as they were thēperors folowing their sentēce ād authority decreed the same So that ecclesiastical ād tēporal authority cōcurring together made one agremēt in right iudgmēt Euen as we knowe it happened of Late touching Anthimus who was thruste out of the see of this imperiall cyty by Agapetus of holy and gloriouse memorie the bisshop of the most holy Church of olde Rome M. Horne The .73 Diuision pag. 42. a Al things being thus done by the commaundement of the Emperour in the first Action and so foorth in the second third and fourth after many acclamations the President of the Councel Mennas concludeth saying to the Synod That they are not ignorāt of the zeale and minde of the Godly Emperour towards the right Faithe and that nothing of those that are moued in the Church .206 ought to be don without his wil and commaundement Stapleton Now goe ye M. Horne clerkly to worke For yf ye can roundly and hansomly proue this ye may perchance set a new head vpon Iustinians shoulders which yet woulde be but an vgle and a monstrouse sight But this is neither clerkly nor truely don of you to turne Cōuenit yt is mete semely or conuenient into oportet yt must or ought I maruaile ye bearing the state of a bishop haue so litle faith and
the wordes immediately folowing which are these Sicut praedictum est Quatenus secuÌ„dum sancta vniuersalia quinque Concilia statuta sanctorum venerabilium patruÌ„ ita eam nos custodiamus vsque in mortem To th entent that as we haue before saied saieth the Emperour we also may kepe the faith euen to deathe according to the fiue holy and generall Councels and according to the decrees of the holy Reuerent Fathers If you had put this clause to the office of Bishops M. Horn as the Emperour did al England should haue sene that you and your fellowes were no Bishops who so lightly and so impudeÌ„tly condemne the doctrine of the holy fathers and do allowe but fower generall Councels as your bretherne here in Antwerpe do allowe but three But it went against your conscience to tell that which should condemne your conscience Likewise in the princes seruice to God you saie the Emperour protested his zeale to conserue the Christian faith vndefiled but you leaue out againe what he saieth immediatly after secundùm doctrinam atque traditionem quae tradita est nobis tam per Euangelium quámque per sanctos Apostolos statuta sanctorum quinque vniuersalium Conciliorum sanctorúmque probabilium patrum According to the doctrine and tradition deliuered vnto vs aswel by the Gospell as by the holye Apostles and by the decrees of the fiue holye General Councels and of the holye approued fathers If you had told this parte of the princes duetye and had geuen the Emperour leaue to tell out his whole tale the Reader shoulde sone haue espied what damnable wretches yowe are that persuade Princes to professe the Gospell onelye with out regarde of former Councels and of the traditions of the holy fathers And then your two marginal notes either would not at al bene noted or at least to your vtter shame haue ben readen Other your nippinges and curtallinges of your places might here be noted As that in the Councels request to the Emperour for ratifieng their determination with his edict you leaue out ex more after the maner wherby is insinuated a customable practise of Emperours as we sawe before in Iustinian to procure by edictes and proclamations the execution of Councels As also in your long allegation of pope Leo his letters which al we graunt vnto you and you neuer the nerer we might note at the least half a dosen such nippinges and manglinges of the text But I thinck M. Horne all that hath ben saied being wel considered you looke for no greate triumphe for this fielde But are content to blowe the retrayte Be it so then M. Horne The .92 Diuision pag. 55. a. Bamba King of Spaine commaunded a Synod to be had at Toletum in the fourthe yeere of his reigne the occasion vvas this There had beene no Synode by the space of .18 yeeres before as it is saide in the preface to this Councell by meanes vvhereof the vvorde of God vvas despised the Churche disciplicine neglected all Godly order distourbed and the Churche toste and tumbled as a shippe vvithout a rovver and sterne meaning a Kinge to call them togeather in Synode By the carefull zeale of this Kinge beyng called togeather they consulte hovv to refourme errores about Faithe corruption of discipline and other disorders againste godlines and Religion And at the ende they doo geue great thankes vnto the noble and vertuous Kinge by vvhose ordinaunce and carefull endeuour they vvere .280 commaunded to this consultation vvho as they affirme of him comming as a nevve repayrer of the Ecclesiasticall discipline in these times not onely intended to restore the orders of the Councelles before this time omitted but also hath decreed and appointed yeerely Synodes to bee kepte hereafter Eringius kinge of Spaine commaundeth the Bishopps and other of his Clergie to assemble togeather at Toletum in one Synode the first yere of his reigne And called an other to the same place the fourth yeere of his reigne to consulte about reformation of the Churche discipline VVhen the Bishoppes and the residue of the Cleargy vvere assembled in their conuocation at the commaundemente of the king he him selfe vvith many of his nobilitie and counsailours commeth in to them he declareth the cause vvherefore he summoned this Synode he shevveth the miseries the vvhole countrey hath susteined and the plagues he declareth the cause to be Goddes vvrathe kindled by meanes of the contempte of Goddes vvorde and commaundement And he exhorteth them that they vvil vvith Godly zeale study â—o purge the land from prauity by preaching and exercise of Godly discipline and that zealously He doth exhort his Nobles that vvere there presente that they also vvould care diligently for the futherance hereof he deliuereth vnto the Synode a booke conteining the principall matter vvherof they should consulte And last of all he promiseth by his hande subscription that he vvil confirme and ratifie vvhat the clergy and nobility shall conclude touching these articles for the furtherance of godlines and Church Discipline Egita Kinge of Spayne .281 caused in his time also three Councelles to be hadde and celebrated at Toletum for the preseruation of Religion vvith the Church Discipline in sincerity and puritie vvho also confirmed and ratified the same vvith his Royal assent and authority The .6 Chapter Of three Kings of Spaine and of the three later Toletane Councels kept in their reignes Stapleton ALM. Hornes force is now sodenly remoued from Constantinople to Spaine where he now bloweth a larme againe But God be thanked for all this great fighte there is litle hurte donne Yea after all this tossing and turmoiling and after all his great sturre and broile againste the pope and the clergy he is vppon the soden becomme suche an entiere and so well affectioned frende to them that but I trowe vnwares and therfore worthy the lesse thanke he transporteth the supreame authority as well in temporall as spirituall matters from the king to the clergy For I beseache you M. Horne are not dyuers of the maters specified in the twelueth and thirtenth Councell at Toledo plaine Ciuile and Temporall As concerning the confirmation of King Ernigius royall Authoritie succeeding to Kinge Bamba being shorne a Monke Concerning the release and exoneration of the people from certaine grieuouse payementes and exactions Concerninge also the goods of certaine Traytours with such like Dothe not the Kinge praye the Prelates to discusse his requests with their iudgementes Doe not they confirme his royall Authoritie with their Synodicall Decree Doth not the Kinge in his booke offred to the Councell saye that he moste humblie and deuoutlye lyeth prostrate before their Reuerente assemblie Coram caetus vestri reuerentia humilis deuotusque prosternor Dothe he not desire them coÌ„cerning his other ciuil ordinaÌ„ces to put to their stroÌ„g and helping hand Doth he not plainly say that what so euer the holy assemblie of Bisshops decreeth to be obserued is by the gift of the
be restored VVe haue degraded the false Priestes Deacons and Clerkes being adulterers and fornicatours and haue driueÌ„ them to penaunce VVe haue vtterly forbidden al maner huÌ„ting and haukiÌ„g to the Clergy VVe decree also that euery priest dvvelliÌ„g in the diocese be subiect vnto his ovvn bisshop and that alvvaies in Lent he make an accoÌ„pt and shhevv to the bishop the maner aÌ„d order of his ministery touching baptism the Catholik faith praiers and the order of Masses And vvhaÌ„soeuer the bishop shal go his circuite to coÌ„firm the people the priest shal be ready to receiue hiÌ„ vvith collectioÌ„ aÌ„d helpe of the people That the priest seke for nevv Chrism alvvaies on MauÌ„dy thursday at the bishops haÌ„d that the bishop may be a vvitnes of his chast life of his faith and doctrine VVe decree further that no vnknovven bishop or Priest be admitted into the Churche ministerye before he be allovved bye the Synode He maketh many such like for the reformation of the Clergy in vvhat sort they shal be punished yf they commit vvhoâ—dome and likevvise againste sorcery vvitchcraft diuinacions incantations and al kind of prophane superstitions If ther vvere no more examples of any Church history but this 298 of Caloroman it vvoulde suffice to make plaine that to the Princes authoritye apperteineth to make Lavves and to the Clergye to geâ—â— him counsaile out of Gods vvorde hovv to frame the discipline to the edifiyng of Gods Church The .8 Chapter Of Charles Martell and of the keyes of S. Peters Confession Stapleton AS farre as I can see al M. Hornes noble prowes and great conquests haue bene and shal be vpon the laÌ„de By the which he hath brought and will bring yf ye wil belieue him vnder his newe Papacy many greate and noble countries yea Moscouia and Aethiopia to But happye yt is that he is not yet come to the Late newe fouÌ„de Landes where the newe Christian people doe as faste and as reuerently embrace the Popes authority as we after we haue bene Christian men nowe these thowsande yeares doe reiecte yt and that with moste shamefull vilany But as I said I fynde no martiall actes of M Hornes vpon the sea but this onely which is so notable and wonderful that this one way serue for all For Lo he carieth all the Popes authoritye awaye in a shippe to Fraunce sente thytâ—er by the Pope him selfe as him selfe saieth For as muche as he sent to Carolus Martellus the keyes of Saint Peters confession So that nowe the Pope hathe beinge therto forced by Maister Horne belyke in some terrible combat vppon the seas with sending these keyes so spoyled him selfe of all his iurisdiction that he hath no more lefte then haue all other Ministers of the Churche and euerye other poore selye Sir Iohn This is Maister Horne a iolye triumphante victorye as euer I reade or hearde of and these be as wonderfull keyes Some great and stronge wonders haue I reade done by keyes As in Italye that suche as be bytten with madde dogges haue bene cured by the Churche doore keye of Saint Bellins Churche who beinge a blessed man died al to torne with dogges And this is writen of a greate learned man of late memorie borne aboute those quarters I haue reade also of meruelouse greate miracles done by keyes that hadde towched the holye reliques of Saint Peter at Rome writen by Sainte Gregorye our Apostle as a thynge moste certainelye and notoriouslye to him and to others knowen But yet Maister Horne these your keyes seame to me incomparablye to passe all other And for the straungnes of the matter and for my better instruction I woulde full fayne be resolued at your handes but of two dowbtes that trouble and incomber me First seinge that this Pope as Maister Horne reciteth out of Pâ—â—â—ina passingly well learned bothe in diuine and prophane lâ—â—rninge and no lesse godlye stoute and constante hath yelded ouer to a laye Prince by sendinge to him in a shippe Saint Peters keyes all his iurisdiction and clayme that he hadde ouer all causes Ecclesiasticall or temporall yet for all this good Maister Horne in this so weightye a matter I woulde craue at your handes a litle of your good helpe to satisfie my mynde yea and your wise discrete readers mynde to For I hauing but a dull insight in such matters for my part see no great wisedome vertue or learning and lesse stoutnesse in Gregorie for theis his doings Your authors in this storie are here Martinus and Platina Yf we shall by them measure his wisdome and stowtenes and other qualities whithal yt was partly for that by his great carefulnes he procured that Rome being oppressed by the kinge of Lombardie was releyued partlie and that most of al for that by a councel holden at Rome almoste of one thowsande bisshops he condemned and accursed the wycked Emperour of Constantinople Leo for defacyng againe after the 7. Generall Councel beinge persuaded thereto by an hereticall monke the holy images as your authour Martinus in Gregories storie writeth And Platina sayth that he both excoÌ„municated themperour Leo and by sentence declared him to be no Emperour And so not whithstaÌ„ding the keies of S. Peter were sent away by shippe he reserued to him self one of S. Peters keyes and a litle more authoritie then ye were ware of yea so much that he hath geuen you a sore blowe in the face whith his key aÌ„d declared you aÌ„d your fellowes and your great Emperour to verie arrant heretyks I must now ons again be so bolde as to trouble your wisedome with an other as necessarie a question and that is by what authoritye ye auouche that theis keyes were nothing else but the popes supreame authoritie and iurisdictioÌ„ Your authors Martinus and Platina say no such thing No nor anie other that I could euer chauÌ„ce vppoÌ„ If this be your owne newe freshe inuention then haue yowe a iolie pregnante wytte and ye haue deceyued aswel others as the late reuerent father M. Bayne late bishop of Lichfeld and CoueÌ„trie his expectation somtime your reader in CaÌ„bridge that was wont to call yow quouis connu duriorem that is harder then any Horn. But I pray you good Sir is your authority inuoydable Must we neads sing sanctus sanctus sanctus to al your sayings and say of you as Pythagoras schollers were wont to say ipse dixiâ— aÌ„d reason no further Let poore blont fellowes be so bold vppon yowe for ones to heare froÌ„ you some better authoritye then your owne naked worde for this noble exposition Namely seing that your boke is not authorised by the Quenes coÌ„missioners as some others are And thowgh yt wer yet might we craue so much at your hands seing that yowe auouche that whiche for all your prety exposition was not done by this Gregorie nor could possible be done onlesse he had bene as frantycke as euer was madde Collyns of Bethelem Nor I trowe anie
vvhich they had deuised This Emperour called an other Councel at Ticinum in Italy for the causes hereafter expressed The matters or causes vvich the honorable Emperour Ludouicus did commaunde his Bisshoppes to consider of are these touching the state of his kingedome of the conuersation of the Bishoppes Priestes and other Churchmen of the doctrine and preachinge to the people of vvritinge out of Bookes of restoring of Churches of ordering the people and hospitalles for strangers of Monasteries both for men and vvemen .338 VVhat so euer is out of order in these forenamed states eyther through the negligence of the guides or the slouthfulnes of the inferiours I am said he very much desirous to know and I coueite to amende or refourme them according to Goddes will and your holy aduise in suche sorte that neither I be found reprouable in Gods sight neither you nor the people incurre Gods wrathful indignation for these things how this may be searched found out and brought to perfection that I commit to be entreated by you and so to be declared vnto mee The lesser matters also whiche in general touche all but in especiall some and nede refourmation I will that ye make enquirie of them and make relation vnto me thereof as for exaumple if the rulers in the Countries neglecte or sell Iustice if they be takers or oppressours of the Churches widdowes Orphanes or of the poore Yf they come to the Sermons If they dooe reuerence and obey duelie their Priestes If they presume to take in hand any new opinions or arguments that may hurt the people c. The Bisshoppes after they had consulted vppon these matters doe make relation vnto the Emperour vvhat they had done shevving to him that they had founde some of the Bisshoppes and chiefe Ministers faultie and humblie praye the Emperour on their behalfe that he vvill of his goodnes graunt those some space to amende their faultes They complaine to the Emperour of Bisshops and Priests for lacke of Preaching and that Noble men and Gentlemen come not vnto those .339 fevv sermons that bee And so then recite many other enormities as about Tythes Incest and suche like especiallie in religious persons vvho for the moste parte are .340 cleane out of order And to bring these to their former order and state resteth say they in your disposition Thus dothe this King take vppon him and thus doe the Bisshoppes yeelde vnto him the .341 gouernemente as vvell of Ecclesiasticall as Temporall causes and thinges On this vvise did Lodouicus alvvaies exercise him selfe in so muche that for his carefull gouernemente in Churche matters he vvas surnamed Pius the Godlie as his Father beforehim vvas called Magnus the Greate Stapleton The principall tenour of the matters here conteyned standeth in the confirmation of the Popes election in calling councelles and confirming lawes ecclesiastical To all the whiche we neade no farre fetched or newe solution especially seing M. Horne hym self furthereth yt so wel as declaryng that all thinges were donne according to the holy Canons and sayinges of the holy Fathers and that many of theis matters towched the polityke gouernmente of the realme Yet let M. Fekenham now beware For M. Horne proueth yt high treason in the people and clergy for that Paschalis was made Pope wythowte themperours consent And so lo at the lengthe here is some face of antiquity for our newe actes of Parliamente Well found out and lyke a good lawyer M. Horne Yet I beseache you tel vs which wordes of all that you reherse imploye plaine treason I am assured there are none onlesse yt be these that they do no more offende againste hys maiesty ▪ as your self reherse out of Sabellicus And yf ye call thys treason and make no better prouf I thinke neither good grammarian nor any good lawyer wil take your parte For thowghe in latin laedere maiestatem be somtyme taken for treason yet yt is not alwayes neither can yt be englished treason but vpon the circumstances which declare the acte to be treason And how wil thys cruell exposition stande I pray you with your owne declaration in this leaf also that thys Ludouicus was a milde mercifull and moste gentle prince Beside thys it is not like he toke thys matter so heauely for that euen as Platina your authour here writeth out of Anastasius bibliothecarius a worthy authour ād lyuing about thys tyme thys Emperour released to this Pope Paschalis his right that he had in the election of Bishoppes geuē before to Charles by Adrian the Pope And here uppon might I aswell cōclude after your base and yet accustomable reasoning that the Princes of Englande should haue nothing to doe with the election of Bishopes Yet if there be no remedy let yt be highe treason to agnise the Popes election withowte the Emperours confirmation What is thys to the prince of Englonde that hath nothing to doe therwith or to M. Fekēham seing if al be true yet it maketh nothing for the Emperours supreamacy or againste the Popes supreamacy The denial wherof in dede the more pitie is taken for treason with vs but yet thankes be to God suche kinde of treason as a man maye lose his head and take no hurte by yt but muche good and that is to be a very true and a blessed martyr But now touching the particular doinges of this Emperour Ludouike you tel vs he bestowed Spirituall promotions and you tell vs but of one onely and instituted his brother Drogo the Chiefe Minister or Bishop at Mettes And here you leaue oute Canonicam vitam agentem clero eiusdem Ecclesiae consentiente ac eligente he instituted him being a man that lead a regular lyfe the clergye also of that Churche bothe confenting and choosing him This you leaue out to make the worlde beleue the Emperour bestowed Spirituall promotions of his owne supreme Authorytie absolutely And here you tel vs of a right belonging to the Emperial maiesty in confirming of the Pope And yet you forget that in the very leafe before you confesse this was made by decrees of Adrian and Leo Popes to Charles this mans Father And then was it not a right of Imperial Maiesty but a Priuilege frō the Apostolike Authoryte As for the Clemency of this Prince so much commended it was not as you imagine for any supreme gouernment but for his most fatherly defending aiding and succouring of the Church Namely in that most learned Councell holden vnder him at Aquisgrane of which presently you do talk very much prying out for som clause that might make for your suprem gouernmēt And at last finding none with a litle false translatiō you make the Synode to say of th'Emperour that he had the charge and ouersight of Christes Church Which al in Latine is but this one word Procuratorem A defendour a succourer a maintainour not a Supreme Gouernour with charge and ouersight You adde also the Synode was
a Romaine borne But to their great griefe he vvithin a vvhile vvas takē frō thē Stapleton M. Horne hath sone done with Nicolaus the first and is frō him leapē to Martinus the secōd Betwene which two were yet .ij. other Popes Adriā the secōd ād Iohn the .9 the time also of their regimēt being more thē twēty yeres and vnder whō especially vnder Nicolaus the first ād Adriā the second as great matters passed touchinge our present purpose as vnder any Popes els of many yeres before or after For vnder thys Nicolaus the firste and Adrian the second the .8 general Councell was kept at Constantinople vnder Basilius then Emperour in the East partes All which matter M. Horne being in other Councels both General and Nationall so diligent a chronicler hath vtterly drowned in silence And yet he might Iwys haue found as much apparent matter for his purpose there as in any other Councel hytherto mentioned For Basilius the Emperour called also this Councell as other Emperours before him dyd and M. Horne might haue furnished his booke with some ioyly talke of this Emperour also made to the bishops at the beginning of the Councell touching his care and endeuour about ecclesiasticall matters But there was a padde in the strawe I warrant you that made M. Horne agast and not so bold as ones to come nere it Ignorant thereof he coulde not be hauing sene Cusanus de Concordia Catholica out of whom he alleageth in this his booke a large place and that in the same booke ād but fiue chapters aboue the place wher Cusanus reherseth out of this viij Generall Councell diuerse and longe processes to shew of purpose how the Emperour Basilius dealed and demeaned him selfe in that Coūcel Ignorant therfore I say of this matter he could not be nor laye for his excuse that the Actes of this coūcel are not commonly set forthe in the former Tomes of the Councelles Except M. Horne alleage such bookes and chapters as he neuer sawe nor read and so vttereth his doctrine vpon heresaye and reporte of others Shortly therfore to touche this General Councel also seing that of all other in maner bothe generall and Nationall somewhat hath bene sayd ād seing now this Councel is also set forth in the last editiō of the Tomes I will in fewe wordes declare both the Popes Primacy in the East Church then to haue bene confessed and the Laye Princes Primacy in Ecclesiastical matters to haue ben none at all First wheras Michael the Emperour of the East partes a man geuē to al licentiousnes and ryot had thrust out the godly Bishop Ignatius from the See of Constantinople by the persuasion of Bardas whome for incest that bisshop had excommunicated and placed in his roome one of his Courtyars and otherwise an heretike Photius by name whome Pantaleon calleth Phocas other Photinus Nicolaus the first then Pope of Rome after legacies to and fro excommunicated Photius and Michael the Emperour for not restoring again Ignatius to his See There is extāt a most lerned and notable letter of this Nicolaus to Michael the Emperour where lernedly and copiously he discourseth what obedience and reuerence Catholik Emperours haue shewed to the Bisshops of Rome and howe none but heretikes and schismatikes haue disobeyed the same And whereas this Emperour Michael had as he saith Commaūded the Pope to sende his Legates to Constantinople aboute that matter a phrase which you M. Horn make very much of this Pope lernedly and trulye aunswereth him that Catholike and good Emperours were not wonte to commaunde their Bisshoppes and Pastours especially the Bisshoppes of the See Apostolike but with Reuerence exhorte and desire them to suche thinges as they required which he proueth by the examples of Honorius Valentinian and Marcian Iustinian Constantin the .4 and Constantin the fift in their letters to Bonifacius the first to Leo the first to Iohn the first to Donus and to Agatho Popes of Rome In al which their letters thei vse the words Petimus hortamur inuitamus rogamus we beseche we exhorte we inuite and desire you with all gentlenes and Reuerēce such as the Apostle cōmaūdeth al mē to shew to their Ouerseers that watche for their soules and shal geue accōpte for the same Also whereas this Emperour had by a Councell of his Bisshoppes banished and remoued Ignatius the Pope first sente his Legates to examine the matter a freshe and to referre to the Pope vnto whom the See of Constantinople of right appertayned wherein the Legates passing their Commission ouercome by flattery and ambition in the Courte of Constantinople confirmed Photius by their consent But the Pope not consenting thereto he cyted bothe Ignatius and Pontius to Rome as Iulius cyted Athanasius and Eusebius with his complices and required the Emperour Michael that by his good ayde and fauour they might appeare In the same letter also he declareth howe in dede amonge the Ethnikes the Emperour was also summus Pontifex the highe Bisshoppe But saith Nicolaus Cùm ad verum ventum est eundem regem atque pontificem vltra sibi nec Imperator iura pontificatus arripuit nec pontifex nomen Imperatorium vsurpauit When Christ the true King and bishop came then neither the Emperour tooke any more vpon him the high bisshops right or Authoritye neither the high bisshop vsurped any more the Imperial title After this by the example of Constantin the great calling the bishops Gods and not to be iudged of any man of Theodosius the younger charging his Lieutenant Candidianus in the Ephesine Councel not to medle with any matter or question of doctrine as hath before bene alleaged and of Maximus that blessed Martyr whom Constans the heretical Emperour nephew to Heraclius had put to death he proueth that thēperorus iudgement ouer bishops is not nor ought not to be of any force And therfore cōcludeth that Ignatius being deposed by the Emperial sentēce only was not at al deposed but remained as true bishop as before Thus dealed Nicolaus the first with Michael the Greek Emperor not vsurping any new authority to him self but following herein the examples of most holye and auncient Bisshoppes before him and requiring no more of the Emperour then his moste godlye and Noble progenitours other Catholike Emperours hadde done All this coulde haue no place in Maister Hornes chronicle either because he hadde not reade so farre or els because his sleightes woulde haue bene to grosse to haue picked hereof any coulourable matter for his imagined Supremacye Vnder Adrian the seconde nexte successour to this Nicolaus and vnder Basilius the Emperour nexte to Michael was holden at Constantinople aboute this matter of Ignatius and Photius principallye the .8 generall Councell by the accompte of the Latines In this Councell the Legates of Adrian Donatus and Stephen Bisshoppes and Marinus a Deacon were president as in all other generall Councelles before
Churche to be for that the Pope vvould not suffer free and General Councels to be called by the Emperours according to the aūcient custome and that his authority is not by the lavve of God but by the positiue Lavves of Princes graunted only because that than Rome vvas the greatest Citie in the vvorld and hath no prerogatiue of Christ or Peter more then any other Bisshoprique Stapleton A faire pleasurely for one Schismatique to plead vppon the Authority of an other Schismatike As if you would say M. Horne Aske my fellow if I be a theefe For both the Author Nilus and the first setter forth therof Flaccus Illyricus are knowen and notorious the one a Schismatike the other an Heretik And therfore what so euer ye here bring oute of Nilus bookes it weigheth no more then if yowe brought Illyricus him selfe or Luther his Maister And to saye the truth it is nothing but an heape of vntruthes not only on your Authours parte but on youres also ouerreaching him shamefully as I shall anon declare But as for your authour if he would haue considered no more but his owne predecessours the Archbisshoppes of Thessalonica he should haue found that they almost one thousand yeares before had an other and a better iudgement of the Popes authoritie and were at that time the popes Legates for the Easte partes as well appeareth by Pope Leo his epistles to Anastasius Bishop there And that the Pope had the principal charge of al churches by Gods owne ordinaunce contrary to the saying of your schismatical authour of so late yeres And yet as bad as he is he doth litle relieue yow For he graūteth the Pope to be Patriarche of the Weste Churche And so is he thowgh he were not the Chiefe absolutelye yet our patriarche and cheif Bishop and therfore cheiflie to be consulted in all greate and weighty ecclesiastical affayres Againe though he be badde inoughe yet is he the worse for coming into your fingers For where you make him to say the only cause of diuision betwene the Greke and the latine Churche was for that the Pope wil not suffer free ād general Coūcelles to be called by the Emperours c. There is no suche thinge in Nilus I haue of purpose perused him ouer neither in the Greke nor in the Translation of Flaccus Illiricus It is your own Captayne and Notorious vntruth M. Horne The .139 Diuision pag. 83. a. Kinge Richarde the .2 called a Councel at VVestminster saieth Polydore wherein it was thought good to the Kinge and the Princes for the weale of his realme of Englande if a parte of the Popes authority were bounded within the limites of the Occean sea he meaneth that it vvere driuen out of the Isle of Britaine .454 wherefore it was decreed that hereafter it shoulde be lawfull to no man to trie .455 any cause before the Bishop of Rome nor that any man be publikly pronoūced wicked or enemy of Religion that is to wit as the cōmon people terme it be excōmunicate by his authority nor that if any mā haue any such cōmaūdemēt frō him they execute the same The penalty ordeined to those that violate this lawe was that losing all his goodes he shoulde be caste into perpetual pryson The .34 Chapter Of Richarde the seconde Kinge of Englande Stapleton HEre lo M. Horn at lēgth strayneth vs very sore For nowe all suytes to Rome are quite cut of Neither can the Pope send any excommunication into Englande What may we then say to helpe our selues Shall I lette the matter goe and let yt shifte for yt selfe as yt may and reason againste the man and not the matter and tel M. Horne least he waxe to proude and want on for this great triumphaunte and victoriouse argumēte that yf a man that is excommunicated is as he expoundeth yt a wycked man and a enemie of religion that him self and his fellowes had neade to loke wel abowt them beinge accursed not only by many Popes which now M. Horne careth not a rushe for but by many national and general coūcelles also Or shal I tel him that suyte to Rome for excommunicatiō is but one braunche or arme of the Popes authority And that the residewe of his authority stoode in strengthe and force styll And so that he proueth not the lyke regimente that nowe is in the which the whole papal authoritye is vtterly bannished Or shall I say that God punished the kinge for his attempte and as he toke away the Popes authority so he loste all his owne very shortly after and loste bothe crowne and kingdome miserably Or shall I say this lawe died with the kinge and was neuer after vntill our dayes put in vre Or shall I say that thowghe all the Popes authoritie were bannished by this statute out of England M. Hornes newe supreamacy will not therof followe but that the supreamacy in matters ecclesiasticall remayned in the Bishoppes especially in Thomas Arondell Archbishop of Canterbury who kepte coūcelles and synodes and determined matters ecclesiasticall without the kinges cōsente therunto by whose prouincial constitution Mayster Horne and his fellowes are declared excommunicate parsons and heretikes for the hereticall doctrine that he and they maynteyne contrarie to the catholike faith Or shall I yet ones againe appeale not to Rome leaste M. Horne charge me with a terrible premunire but euē to some domesticall Iudge and I greatly passe not yf yt be to a quest of lawyers of his best frendes to be tried by them yf they can fynde any suche lawe in the Statutes of oure Realme Againe shall I appeale to an other Queste euen of his owne nighe neighbours in Winchester schole to be tried by them yf I falsly accuse M. Horne of a moste vntruth and false translation Or shal I appeale to his deare frendes the Logitioners at Oxford or Cambridge and be tried by them yf I say not true saying now and auouching to M. Hornes owne face that his owne allegation out of Polidore directly proueth the Popes Primacie and especially the customable and ordinarye suytes to Rome I will then holde my self at this stay and I will ioyne with him for these three poyntes First then I auouche that there is no suche presidente to be shewed among the statutes of our realme and further that neuer any suche was made in the tyme of this kinge Secondly I affirme that M. Horne hathe either of deape and grosse ignorance or of cankered malice maymed or mangled his authours narration and depraued and peruerted his manifeste meaning by a false and counterfeite translation The wordes of Polidore are these Concilium habitum est ad Westmonasterium eo in Concilio regi pariter atque principibus visum est è republica sua Anglicana fore si pars aliqua imperij Romani Pontificis Oceano terminaretur quod multi quotidie vexarentur ob causas quas Romae non facilè cognosci posse putabant
reuocamus atque omnino respuimus This is my sonnes our IudgemeÌ„t This we beleue and professe This we now affirm in our old age aÌ„d placed in the Apostolik top If at any tyme we haue writen any thing either to you or to any other contrary to this doctrin al those things we now reuoke and vtterly repeale for erroneous and light opinioÌ„s of youthely affectioÌ„ Lo M. Horn. For your Aeneas we answere you with Pius for your younge vnkilful and lesse aduised we answere you by the old the more lerned and the better aduised for your priuat and lay maÌ„ for he had yet takeÌ„ no holy orders when he returned to the obedieÌ„ce of Pope Eugenius we answer you with the Bishop aÌ„d the chief of al Bishops You must remeÌ„bre M. Horne that alwaies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Next to Aeneas Syluiê° cometh the Cardin. de Cusa one that maketh as much for M. Horn as a rope doth for a thefe Haue you sene M. Horn that Cardinals book which you allege de CoÌ„cordia Catholica If not theÌ„ beshrew your frend that told you of hiÌ„ If yes theÌ„ tel vs I pray you how like you him aÌ„d his coÌ„clusioÌ„s in that work How like you his coÌ„clusioÌ„ in the .2 book proued by the clere practise of the ChalcedoÌ„ aÌ„d the Ephesin CouÌ„cel fideÌ„ Romanae Ecclesiae in nulla Synodo vniuersali retractari posse That the faith of the Church of Rome caÌ„ be reuoked in no vniuersal Synod or Councel generall For theÌ„ what wretches are you and how coÌ„trary to the Fathers of the first general CouÌ„cels and of the first .400 yers which haue in your pelting priuat conuocations reuoked and coÌ„deÌ„ned in so many and waighty points the faith of the Church of Rome How like you that he telleth how in the old first general CouÌ„cels not only the holy ghospels but also lignuÌ„ S. Crucis aliae reliquiae a piece of wod of the holy Crosse aÌ„d other relikes were layed forth in the midle How like you that he saith Ecclesiastici Canones noÌ„ possunt nisi per ecelesiasticaÌ„ coÌ„gregationeÌ„ quae Synodus vel coetus dicitur statui CanoÌ„s or rules touchiÌ„g Church matters caÌ„not be determined but by aÌ„ ecclesiastical asseÌ„bly which is called a Synod or coÌ„pany no doubt but of ecclesiastical persons For if this be true as Cusanê° ther by the practise aÌ„d CanoÌ„s of the Church proueth ir most true theÌ„ hath Cusanus vtterly ouerthroweÌ„ your new primacy aÌ„d in one lyne geueÌ„ you an other pawne mate to your whole boke For here lo are plainly excluded al PriÌ„ces aÌ„d other laye magistrats whatsoeuer who are pardy no ecclesiastical persons How like you that he pronouÌ„ceth assuredly and coÌ„staÌ„tly saying PapaÌ„ esse rectoreÌ„ nauiculae S. Petri vniuersalis Ecclesiae nemo etiaÌ„ dubitat That the Pope is the ruler of S. Peters ship aÌ„d of the vniuersal Church no maÌ„ verely doubteth But how say you M. Horn doubte you or doubt you not How like you again where he affirmeth aÌ„d proueth the same substaÌ„tially as wheÌ„ he saith Et veruÌ„ est c. And true it is that no iudgemeÌ„t of any Synod is auaileable wher the autority of the See Apostolik coÌ„curreth not wher be theÌ„ your LoÌ„doÌ„ conuocatioÌ„s But how proueth he this the reason he geueth Quia semper appellari potest c. Bicause it may alwaies be appeled froÌ„ the IudgmeÌ„t of that Synod to the See Apostolik So we reade saith he of the Patriarches of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople Flauianus Ignatius aÌ„d other so of Athanasius of AlexaÌ„dria and other we reade that thei appealed froÌ„ Synods of Bishops to the See Apostolik So also Chrysostome froÌ„ a Synod of the AegyptiaÌ„ bishops appealed to InnoceÌ„tiê° the Pope So Theodoretus froÌ„ the Ephesin coÌ„uenticle aÌ„d his owne Patriarche Maximê° of Antioch appealed to Pope Leo as I haue other wher agaiÌ„st M. Iewel declared How like you this doctrin of Cusanê° M. Horn As also wher he saith again expressely Fateor de coÌ„stitutionibus fideÌ„ taÌ„geÌ„tibus veruÌ„ esse quòd si Sedis Apostolicae Autoritas noÌ„ interueniat ratae noÌ„ sint imò ipsiê° PoÌ„tificis coÌ„sensus interuenire debet cuÌ„ sit princeps in episcopatu fidei I confesse it is true of Constitutions concerninge faith that yf the Authoritie of the See Apostolike doe wante they are of no valewe yea the consent of the Pope him selfe ought to concurre in such case because he beareth the chiefe rule in the bishoply charge of fayth Which last wordes Cusanus had lerned of the Emperours Valentinian and Marcian in their letters to pope Leo aboue a .xi. hundred yers past How like you now M. Horn tel me of good felowship this Cardinal of Cusa out of whom so sadly you alleage such a longe processe Howe so euer you like it it is of vs and of euery diligent Reader very well to be liked and diligeÌ„tly to be noted I meane these testimonies of Cusanus not bicause he sayeth it but bicause he proueth it so by the olde practise of the primitiue Churche But especially it is to be noted that this Cusanus writinge this booke De Concordia Catholica about the time of the Councell of Basill and writinge it expressely not for the pope but againste the pope for the Authorytie of the Councell aboue the pope and for the Authoryte of the Emperour as muche as he coulde yet by the very force of the truthe which in dede lernedly and paynefully he serched out he was constrained to say and conclude for the popes Authorytie as we haue before recited largely and amply though not in dede so fully and absolutely as bothe he and Aeneas Syluius afterwarde did by reuokinge their former errours in their riper ages For this Cusanê° wheÌ„ he wrote this was not yet Cardinall but only the deane of a Church in CoueleÌ„ce And in all his positions where he speaketh against the CommoÌ„ opinioÌ„ of lerned meÌ„ touching the popes primacie aboue the general Councel for otherwise he neuer denied it he submitteth him self to better iudgement and speaketh vnder correction Nowe to drawe nerer to your allegatioÌ„ M. Horne concerning the Emperours Authorytie in calling of Councels if you take Cusanus with his whole meaning therein you shall find small reliefe for your desperat cause If you admitte not his whole meaning nor will not tary his tale out M. Iewel wil tel you M. Horne that is no good maner And he will tell you of a lawe that sayeth It is againste reason that one man shoulde in parte allowe the will of the dead so farre forthe as it maketh for him and in parte ouerthrowe it where it semeth to make against him Lette vs then heare the whole meaninge of Cusanus concerninge the Authorytie that Emperours haue in callinge assistinge and confirming of Councelles euen in that booke where he sayeth all he can for the Emperours Verely maister Horne in all that booke he
disposed he saith this ArgumeÌ„t is much like as if a yong Nouice shuld reason thus NuÌ„nes must kepe sileÌ„ce in the Cloisture therfore the Prioresses haue not the gouernment in NuÌ„nish causes and matters CoÌ„cerning the first part of his answere I say that the argument is good aÌ„d sufficieÌ„t For if teaching preaching and disputing in matters of religioÌ„ be causes and matters ecclesiastical and if womeÌ„ be imbarred froÌ„ this then is there a sufficieÌ„t cause why M. Fekenham may not take this othe that a woman is supreme head in al causes spiritual aÌ„d ecclesiastical Namely to erect and enact a new and proper religioÌ„ throughout her realme by the vertue of her own proper and supreme gouernmeÌ„t For to this end M. Horn is the othe teÌ„dâ—ed It is to euideÌ„t It can not be dissembled Againe the said place of S. Paul is of the order and maÌ„ner of expouÌ„ding of scripture as it appeareth by the text If then S. Paul forbiddeth a woman to expouÌ„d scripture how can a woman take vpon her to be the chief iudge of al those that expouÌ„d the scripture I mean in that very office of expouÌ„ding Scripture in decreeiÌ„g determining and enacting what religion what beliefe what doctrine shal take place And such shee must nedes be if she be a supreme head Suche do you and your fellowes make her Such authority you M. Horn throughout all this boke attribute to your new supreme heads Emperours and KiÌ„gs by you alleaged You make them to preache to teache and to prescribe to the Bishops in their CouÌ„cels what and how they shal do in their ecclesiasticall matters If then by you a supreme Gouerner in ecclesiastical maters must be so qualified as to be present in Councels of Bishops to prescribe rules for the Bishops to follow to determine what they shal do and to coÌ„firme by royal asseÌ„t the decrees of bishops yea and to make them selues decrees and coÌ„stitutions ecclesiastical but a woman by S. Paule may not ones speake in the Church that is in the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ or assembly of the faithful and by you a womaÌ„ may not preache teach or dispute vndoubtedly both by S. Paul and by your own coÌ„fession a womaÌ„ can not be a supreme Gouernour such as the Othe forceth meÌ„ to swere I say supreme gouernour in al ecclesiastical causes No nor in so many causes by a great deale as you pretend in this your booke other Kings and Princes to haue practised supreme gouernmeÌ„t in CoÌ„sider now M. Horne how it may staÌ„d with S. Paules doctrine that a woman may be a supreme gouerner in al ecclesiastical causes namely such as you in this boke would make your Reader beleue that al Emperours Kings and Princes hitherto haue bene Now put the case as we saw it viij yeres past that in a doubtful matter of doctrine and religion to be tried by scripture the whole number of bishops agree vpoÌ„ some determinate and resolute exposition with their Clergie and would by an Ecclesiastical law of CoÌ„uocation or Councel set forth the same Al their resolutioÌ„ and determination is not worth a rush by your Othe and by your maner of talke in this booke if the Prince doe not allowe and coÌ„firme the same And how this wil staÌ„d with S. Paul in this chapter tel vs I pray you presupposing as the statute requireth that the Princes allowing though she be a woman is necessary And now are ye come to thâ—s point and driueÌ„ therto by the force of this place to say that the place doth not proue but a womaÌ„ may haue some gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes As though the QuestioÌ„ were now of some gouernmeÌ„t only and not of Supreme and absolute Gouernment in al maner thinges and causes ecclesiastical If therefore this place do proue that a womaÌ„ hath not the Supreme and absolute gouernement in all causes ecclesiasticall but that in some and them the chiefest she must holde her peace as yt doth euideÌ„tly and ye can not denie yt then is M. Fekenham free froÌ„ taking the othe of the supremacy and then hath S. Paule vtterly confuted that Othe and your whole booke withal This I say also as by the way that yf this chapter must be taken for teaching preaching and disputing as M. Horne saith and truely that M. Iewell went far wide froÌ„ S. Paules meaning when he applied yt to the coÌ„mon seruice of the Church whereof it is no more meaÌ„t theÌ„ of the coÌ„moÌ„ talke in tauernes As for M. Hornes secoÌ„d mery mad obiectioÌ„ no maÌ„ is so mad to make such an argumeÌ„t but hiÌ„self And therfore he may as long and as iolily as he wil triuÌ„ph with him self in his own folly Yet I would wish M. Horne to speake wel of Nunnes were it but for his grandsir Luthers sake and the heaueÌ„ly coniunctioÌ„ of him and a Nonne together Which vnhappy coÌ„iunction of that VulcaÌ„ and Venus engeÌ„dred the vnhappy brood of M. Horn aÌ„d his felowes But that this folish fond argumeÌ„t is nothing like to M. FekenhaÌ„s argumente yt may easely be proceiued by that we haue alredy and sufficiently sayde M. Fekenham The .159 Diuision pag. 98. a. The third chiefe point is that I must not only sweare vpon the Euangelists that no foraine personne state or potentate hath or ought to haue any power or authoritie Ecclesiastical or Spiritual within this Realme but also by vertue of the same Othe I must renounce all forraine power and authorities which for a Christian man to doe is directly against these two Articles of our Crede Credo sanctaÌ„ ecclesiaÌ„ CatholicaÌ„ I do beleue the holy catholik â—hurch Credo SanctoruÌ„ coÌ„munioneÌ„ I do beleue the coÌ„munioÌ„ of saints And that there is a participatioÌ„ and coÌ„munion amongest al the beleuers of Christes Church which of the Apostle Paule are called Saincts Adiuro vos per DominuÌ„ vt legatur haec Epistola omnibus sanctis fratribus And herin I do ioyne this issue with your L. that whaÌ„ your L. shal be able to proue by Scripture Doctor General CouÌ„cell or by the coÌ„tinual practise of any one Church or part of al ChristeÌ„dome that by the first Article I beleue the holy Catholik Church is meant only that there is a Catholike Church of Christ and not so that by the same article euery ChristiaÌ„ man is bound to be subiect and obedient to the Catholike Church like as euery member ought to haue obedieÌ„ce vnto the whole mystical bodie of Christ. And further when you shall be hable to proue by the second Article I dooe beleue the Communion of Saints is not so meante that a Christian man oughte to beleeue such attonement suche a participation and communion to be amongest al beleeuers and members of Christes Catholike Churche in doctrine in faith in Religion and Sacramentes but that it is laufull for vs of this Realme therein to dissent from the Catholike Churche of Christe dispersed in all other Realmes and that by a corporal Othe it is laufull for
our Crede that M Fekenham here toucheth This is you say your self here M. Horne the propositiō of that part of the othe Al true subiects ought and must forsake al foraine iurisdictiōs powers superioritie praeeminences and authorities of euery foraine Prince and Prelate state or Potentate The propositiō of M. Fekenhā is that to beleue the holy Catholik Church is as much to say as to be subiect and obediēt to the Catholik Church But the Catholik Church cōprehēdeth al the corps of Christēdom as wel without the realme as within the realme subiect and obediēt to one head the Pope of Rome And this Pope of Rome is to you a foraine Prelate Power and Potentate as your self doth afterward expoūd it Ergo by vertue of the oth you force al the Quenes subiects to renoūce and forsake al the corps of Christēdom without the realm which is as I haue said the extreme cōtradictory to this Al true subiects ought and must beleue obey and be subiect to the whole corps of Christendom as well without the Realme as within You answer The Othe maketh no mētion in any one word of the Catholike Church But I replie In that you exclude al foraine power and authoritie you exclude also the Catholik Church which is no lesse forain to you thē is the Pope to whom that Church is subiect as the body to the head You saye the Othe speaketh of a foraine Prince Prelate and Potentate and so of the foraine power and authority of such a foraine state but I replie First that you belye the Othe For the Othe speaketh not of a forraine Prince Prelate and Potentate but of euery foraine Prince Prelate and potentate as but the second leafe before your selfe describeth this part of the Othe And so expresly you renounce as al Princes so all Prelates of Christes Churche whiche is the whole Catholike Church And so the Othe is plaine contradictory to this Article I beleue the Catholique Churche Secondarily I replie that the foraine authoritie of such a foraine state is in your sense the whole Churches authoritie subiect to the Pope of Rome And so ones again by the report of your Oth in renoūcing al forain autority you renoūce al the Churches authority without the realme of Englād as much to say you renoūce to beleue ād obey the Catholik church And as much to say you protest by oth to beleue and obey only the church within the realm of England Cōsider now good Reader whether this third part of the oth be not mere cōtradictory in effect to this article of our Crede I beleue the Catholike Church supposing that we must not onely beleue but also obey and be subiect to the Catholike Church Which is the Argumēt that M. Fekenham proposeth and is the demaund in M. Fekenhams issue To the which M Horne answereth neuer a whit But frameth a nother opposition such as in deede might well become a dremer in his dreme Againe betwen this Article of our Crede I beleue the Cōmuniō of Saints ād your othe I renoūce al foraine iurisdictiōs power superiority praeeminēce of euery foraine Prince and Prelate is a plaine and extreme cōtradiction For as to renoūce euery forain Prince bīdeth al the subiects of Englād to obey ōly the prince of that lād and no prince out of the lād in al tēporal causes ād things which part of the Othe no Papist in England euer refused to take and which for my part M. Barlow of Chichester can beare me witnesse I refused not but expreslie offered my self to take at what time vpō refusal of the other part he depriued me as much as laie in him of my prebend in that church so to renoūce euery forain Prelate as the othe expresly speaketh bindeth al the subiects of England to obey only the Prelates of that lād and not to obey any Prelate without the land what soeuer he be in any spiritual or Ecclesiasticall cause Which is as euery man may see the extreme cōtradictory to this Article of our Crede I beleue the Cōmunion of Saints Wherby is ment as M Fekenhā reasoneth and M. Horne denieth not nor can with any shame deny that euery Christian man ought to beleue a perfecte attonement participation and cōmunion to be emongst al beleuers and members of Christes Catholike Churche in doctrine in faith in religion and sacraments He confesseth also that it is not lauful for vs of the realm of England therin to dissent from the Catholik Church of Christ dispersed in al other Realms This is a most true and inuincible opposition betwene the Othe and the article or parte of our Crede most truly and learnedly set forth by M. Feck lewdly dissembled ād no whit answered by M. Horn. Now though you and your felowes M. Horne wil seme to expound by the authority of euery foraine Prelate the authority of the Pope only yet who seeth not what an heape of absurdities doo folow therof For first is the Pope euery forain Prelate or yf he be not why sweare you against euery forain Prelate Secondly is euery forain Prelate the Pope then haue we I trowe more Popes then one Thirdly why should yow rather meane by a forain Prelate the B. of Rome in Italy then the B. of Millayn in Lombardy the B. of Toledo in Spain the B. of Lisbona in Portugal the B. of Parys in Fraunce the B. of Ments in Germany or any other bishope in these lowe Countries here in Sicily in Polonia in Prussia or any other where without the Realm of Englād Or what is ther in the B. of Rome to make hī forain which is not also in al the forenamed bishops yea ī al catholik bishops beside those of the realm of Englād Fourthly when you renounce euery forain Prelat ▪ You doe plainly renoūce al Prelates whatsoeuer without the realm of Englād and so you renoūce al society cōmuniō ād Feloshyp of saints that is of faithful folk in the Church of Christ. Fiftly albeit the othe had expresly named or entended to renoūce the pope only yet in so doing they had renoūced al Catholik bishops beside And that not only because al Catholike bisshoppes are subiect to the Pope as to their head whereby renoūcing the Head you renoūce also the bodye vnder that Head but also because the faith the doctrin ād the religiō of the Pope of Rome is no other thē the faith doctrin ād religiō of al other Catholik bishops Neither is the faith of other Catholik bishops any other faith thē the Pops faith is Therfor who renoūceth by othe the Pope of Rome for a forain Prelat and his faith ād doctrine for forain he renoūceth also by othe the faith and doctrine of al other Catholik bishops without the Realme of England for forain Sixtly in renoūcing all power and Authority of euery forayn Prelat you renoūce the Lutherā and Sacramētary Superintēdents of Geneua of Zurich of Basil of Wittēberg
of the lay the bishops and the whole Conuocation withstanding that gifte with al their power I beleue it would trouble him or any wise man els to geue any good reason therefore the obedieÌ„ce of a ChristeÌ„ maÌ„ to the Catholike Church which al Christians in their Crede doe professe presupposed If I should farder aske M. Horn again how he caÌ„ goe for a bishop and write him selfe as he dothe in his booke the B. of Winchester being called to that functioÌ„ only by the letters patents of the Prince without due CoÌ„secration or imposition of handes by any Bishop or bisshops liuing which impositioÌ„ of haÌ„des S. Paule euideÌ„tly practised vpoÌ„ Timothe aÌ„d the vniuersal Church hath alwaies vsed as the only aÌ„d proper meanes to order a bishop of the Churche I am wel assured neither he nor al his fellowes being all vnordered prelats shall euer be able to make any sufficient or reasonable answer answering as ChristiaÌ„ Catholike meÌ„ whereby it may appeare that they may goe for right bishops of Christes Church but that thei must remain as they were before or mere lay men or simple priestes Last of al take you yourself in dede M. Horn for a bishop If so theÌ„ may you preache the word minister the sacrameÌ„ts bind aÌ„d lose vpoÌ„ the coÌ„missioÌ„ geueÌ„ you by God in holy scripture without any furder coÌ„missioÌ„ of the prince If you may so do theÌ„ put the case the Q. Mai. that now is or any other king or Queene of England hereafter should forbid you to preach the word to minister the sacraments or to execute any other part of the bishoply functioÌ„ â–ª and by coÌ„mmissioÌ„ appoint some other to that functioÌ„ Wil you obey or wil you not If yea theÌ„ do you forsake your duty and charge coÌ„mitted vnto you by God If not theÌ„ by vertue of this Act you incurre the penalty therof To this questioÌ„ answer M. Horn if you be able and make if you caÌ„ Christs coÌ„missioÌ„ the holy Scriptures and this Act to agree both together that the keping of the one import not the breach of thother But this shal you neuer be able to do while you liue staÌ„ding to that which in this your booke you haue coÌ„fessed Thus you see euery way how in your own sayings you are intrapped ouertakeÌ„ and coÌ„founded And so must it nedes fal out with euery maÌ„ that with any truth or ê“bability laboreth to maintain an vntruth or absurdity As for your forged and presuÌ„ptuous limitatioÌ„ vpoÌ„ the words of th' Act and abridgiÌ„g of the Q. Ma. autoriti therin expressed I leaue that mater furder to be coÌ„sidered by the graue wisdom of the most Honorables Here remain yet some vntruthes by you auouched that would be coÌ„futed which because the answer alredy waxeth prolixe and long I wil but touch The holy Gospel saith whose syns ye retain shal be retained whose syns ye lose in earth their syns shal be loosed in heaueÌ„ CoÌ„trary to the plaine words of the gospel you wil haue no actual bindiÌ„g or losing by the priest in dede but a declaratioÌ„ aÌ„d an assuraÌ„ce that they are losed or bouÌ„d coÌ„trary I say not only to the words of the gospel but also to the doctrin aÌ„d practise of the vniuersal Church wher the priest hath euer said to the peniteÌ„t Ego absoluote c. I absolue thee aÌ„d saieth not I declare and assure thee that thou art absolued This is a plaine heresy not much vnlike to the NouatiaÌ„s whoÌ„ S. Ambrose coÌ„futeth sauing that their heresy is not so large as is yours For they but in certain crimes denied power of losing in the church referring that power in such cases oÌ„ly to God You deny to be in the church any power at al either of binding or of losing referring al the power to God only aÌ„d not coÌ„sidering how God is to be praised qui taleÌ„ potestateÌ„ dedit hoiÌ„b Who gaue such power to men Which the coÌ„mon Iewes had yet the grace to coÌ„sider in the high Bishop aÌ„d chief priest Christ Iesus our Sauiour An other of your hereticall vntruthes in this place also is that you denie the sacramente of confirmation and that the holie ghoste is not geuen by the imposition of the Bisshoppes hands We reade in S Luke that Christe at his ascension promised the holy ghost to them which was performed vppon whitsonday And what was that but their confirmationÌ„ We reade that S. Paule after he had baptized certain parsons in the which baptisme no doubte they receiued the holy ghoste he put his handes vppon them and they thereby receiued the holy ghoste And this was their confirmation The like is writen in the place here by M. Fekenham alleaged of the Apostles Peter and Iohn that put theire handes vppon those that before were baptized by Philip the Deacon and they thervppon receiued the holy ghoste The which did in the primitiue Churche worke in the Christians with inuisible grace and visible miracles at the time of their confirmatioÌ„ as yt now worketh by inuisible grace onely with a strengthening and confirming of the ghostly and spiritual giftes before receiued wherof the Sacrament hath his name And therfore the Bishoppes coÌ„mission for geuing by the imposition of theire handes the holy ghoste may be iustified aswell by the former authorities of scripture as by the authority practise and doctrine of the Churche that belieueth that the holy ghoste is geueÌ„ for the encrease of al spiritual strength in confirmation The .164 Diuision pag. 109. a. M. Fekenham Wherevnto I do adioyne this obiectioÌ„ following First for the time of the old lawe whiche as Paule saide was a very figure of the new Moses Aaron Eleazarus being Priests they had by the very expresse worde of God this iurisdiction ouer the people of God as to sit in iudgement vpon them and that not only in Ecclesiasticall but also in Politike and ciuill matters and causes they did visite them they did refourme them they did order correct aÌ„d punish them so oft as cause required and without al commission of any ciuill Magistrate Gouernour Kinge or Prince Besides that for the whole time of the olde Lawe there was an expresse Law made where by all Ciuill Magistrats and Iudges were coÌ„maunded in al doubtfull matters to repaire to the Bisshops and Priests and to staie vppon their determinations and iudgemeÌ„ts without declining on the righte hande or the lefte And if that any maÌ„ should disobey the determinatioÌ„ once geuen of the Priest Morietur homo ille like as it appeareth Deut. 17. M. Horne This adiuÌ„ct vvil not serue your turn for it is not possible to stretch it vvithout bursting to ioyn with that you must conclude You begin to ioyne your vvorke together vvith a saying of S. Paule vvhich he .587 neuer said you should haue noted the place vvhere S. Paul saith that the old Lavv vvas a very figure of the nevv There is no such
iudgements and trialles forinsecal also by excommunication depriuation or such like ecclesiastical punishmeÌ„ts without a new commission from the Prince and to bringe nor reason nor authority nor Scripture nor Doctour nor couÌ„cel nor exaÌ„ple in Christes Church at any time practised for the coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of yt but only a decree of laye men contrary to their own Pastours and bishops it is such a kind of persuasioÌ„ as wel may be forceable to the haÌ„d aÌ„d the mouth to extort froÌ„ theÌ„ an outward coÌ„sent for feare of displeasure but to the hart and coÌ„scieÌ„ce of a ChristeÌ„ maÌ„ professing obedieÌ„ce to Christ and his dere Spouse the Church aÌ„d perfourming the same it shal neuer be able to perce vnto As for the Sequele of M. FeckeÌ„haÌ„s argumeÌ„t whereof you say the most simple caÌ„ iudge as though it were but a simple sequele to infer vpoÌ„ the Bishops authority in the old law the IurisdictioÌ„s of the bishops in the new Testament or vpon the example of Eleazar to inferre forinsecall as you call it iurisdiction in bishoppes it appereth by that hath ben said both that the deductioÌ„ froÌ„ the old law to the new is right good and such as your self most pleÌ„tifully haue vsed in the first part of your book yea so far that you charge M. Fekn though vntruly for a Donatist for seeming to auoid such kind of prouf and also it appereth that a vaine thing it were for bishops now after the example of Eleazarus to haue the directing feeding and ordering of Gods people if thei had not withal power and authority to cal back such as goe a stray to punish the offenders to visit their cures to refourme disorders to make lawes for order to be kept c. in vain I say seing that the one without the other neither was at any tyme auaylable neither can by any reason possibly be auailable M. Fekenham The .165 Diuision pag. 110. a. The seconde in the newe Testament like as our Sauiour Christe did committe and leaue the whole Spiritual gouernement of his people and Churche vnto his Apostles and to the Bisshoppes and Priestes and the successours of theÌ„ So they did practise al Spirituall gouernment ouer them they did execute and geue iudgement in the Churche of Christe they did refourme order and correcte all disorder therein and that without all commission ayde or authority of any Temporall Magistrat King or Prince for the space of three hundreth yeres in the primatiue Churche of Christe vnto the time of Constantine he being the first Christian Kinge and Emperour which did ioyne his sworde to the maintenaunce of Gods worde M. Horne Like as the Apostles had in commission povver from Christe our Sauiour to vvhome al povver vvas geuen both in heauen and in earth so faithfully they executed the authâ—rity and charge committed vnto them not seeking their ovvne honour by vsurpation but the glory of Christ by the abasing them selues euen vnto the death Their commission regestred by S. Mathevv appeareth in these vvordes Goe and teache al the nations baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghost teaching them to kepe all things which I haue commaunded you Hovv faithfully they exercised this authority according to the commission S. Luke shevveth in his Chronicle called the Actes of the Apostles and setteth forth one notable example hereof in Paules oration made to the Elders of Ephesus called to Miletum He taketh them to witnesse that he kept nothing backe from them that might be for their profit but shewed them al the councel of God It is much 592 maruail that Paul shevved al Gods councel vnto them and yet made no mention of any Forinsecal iurisdiction as geuen them by the commission of Gods vvorde The godly Bisshops that succeded the Apostles for manye yeres after follovved the doctrine and examples of the Apostles yet .593 neuer exercising iurisdictioÌ„ Forinsecal neither iudging reforming ordering or correcting othervvise than bye preaching publikely or priuately vvithout especial consent and commission of their Churches during the time thei had no Christian Prince or Magistrate ConstaÌ„tinus as I haue said vvas not the first Christian King But he vvas the very first Emperour as your ovvne vvriters doe vvitnesse that .594 gaue Bisshops authority to iudge and exercise iurisdiction ouer their Clergy and that gaue to the Bisshop of Rome povver and .595 authority ouer other Bisshops as iudges haue the King ouer them and that gaue to him povver and iurisdiction ouer al other Churches if that Donation be not forged vvhich Gratian citeth And Petrus Bertrandus a Bisshop a Cardinal and one of your best learned in the Canon and Ciuil lavves in his treatise De origine iurisdictionum affirmeth that Theodosius and Carolus Magnê° did 596 graunt vnto the Churche al iudgementes For the proufe vvhereof he auoucheth diuerse decrees and .597 addeth That such grauntes were afterwards abrogated The .9 Chapter Of Spirituall Iurisdiction exercised by bisshops without Princes commissions and before Constantines time Stapleton MAister Fekenham bringeth now forth certain autorities of the new testament for the iustifying of his purpose as that Christ committed to his Apostles and to their successours the whole spiritual gouernement and that they did practise and exercise the same .300 yeres together without any maner of commission from Princes eueÌ„ to the tyme of CoÌ„stantin the great M. Horn thinketh it a sufficient answere with stoute asseueration voyde of al maner of probation to auouche that they had a commissioÌ„ he dareth not say now of their Princes being al or almoste al infidels but of their Churches Yea well and sone saide M. Horne but yf ye would withall haue layde before your reader but one authour old or new good or badde vnlesse perchaunce ye may bring some of your own fellowes and but one example for these .300 yeres we would the better haue born with you Now ye tel vs the Apostles did preach and baptise and other such extraordinary matters leauing the thing vnproued wherein lieth al the question betwene yow and M. Feckenham Your assertion is altogeather incredible and a very peeuishe fantasticall imagination that no man of the clergy or Laiety these 300. yeres was excoÌ„municated for any manner of offence no priest was forbydde to minister the Sacraments or deposed for his defaults by his bishoppe but by a speciall commission of the prince or whole Churche Ye may aswel pul downe the towre of London M. Horne with your litle finger as ye shall be able to proue this fonde assertion But yet before CoÌ„stantinus the great his time ye think your self cock sure Let vs then see howe sure ye are euen of this your onely example Verely I suppose that no man lyuinge vnlesse he hath a brasen face would for shame of the worlde thus demeane him self in so graue and weighty matters and linck so many Lies together as lynes as you doe
to abuse you as yee malitiousely conceiue of me Fiftely as to the restrainte of your liberty vvhiche you cal close imprisonment to haue ben for these talkes betvvixt M. Denny and you vvithin one hovvre after You knovve right vvel that your restrainte vvas not vppon that occasion but vppon your seemelie behauiour aboute other matters vvhereof ye make no mention least you shoulde haue prooued your self a Lier After I had in fevve vvoordes calmed the storme that seemed vvoulde arise betvvixt M. Dennie and you I entred into talke vvith you in matters of Religion as I vvas vvont to doo dailie before The talke vvas of venial and mortal sinne you haue not forgotteÌ„ the occasion I am sure for if you haue in your remembraunce the Monkish .684 Iebusites you cal them Iesuites you may remember that a crosse that came from them gaue the occasion of the talke in that matter I proued that no .685 sinne is so venial as it could be remitted by any ceremonie yea there is no sinne but the same .686 of it selfe is mortal and yet venial to be purged by the merites of Christe onelie and that al sinnes vvere they neuer so mortal vvere neuerthelesse venial sauing al only the sinne againste the holy Ghoste vvhiche is irremissible For this my saying and other pointes vvhich I condeÌ„ned ye sel into such a rage that ye not onely railed against the Bishop of Sarisburie saying he vvas vtterlie vnlearned and that he should neuer be hable to ansvvere M. Hardinges booke but also openly called me almoste in plaine termes Heretique and said my doctrine whiche I preached yet ye vvould neuer heare me was erroneous filthy and blasphemous so filthely your blasphemous mouth coulde raile against .687 Gods truthe VVherupon I to staie you saied alonely that those vvere vnmannâ—rlie vvordes to be spoken at mine ovvne table and therfore vvould as thaÌ„ say no more opeÌ„ly vnto you there but tolde you that after dinner I vvoulde shevve you more of my minde betvvixt you and me And so shortly after dinner I came vp to you and there calling you into the Gallory of my house adioining to your chamber I put you in remeÌ„braunce of that vvhiche I had before oftentimes admonished you of your outragious talke in mine absence vsed oftentimes opeÌ„ly at my table vvhereof I had sondrie times geueÌ„ you vvarning for that the same might breede peril to your selfe blame to me and offence to others And bicause I fouÌ„d stil the coÌ„tinuaÌ„ce of that your misorder yea to be muche more vehemeÌ„t many times in mine absence than in my presence Therefore I vvilled you thenceforth to absteine from conferring vvith anie man in any vvise at all addinge that you should haue to your chamber al things necessary and vvhat meate you vvold competently appoint for your ovvne diet vvhich ye had accordinglie And although I did restraine you from comming to mie table or to goe so much at large as you had doon yet had you no other keper than you had before vvhich vvas your ovvn man you had a faire Gallory adioyning to your chaÌ„ber opening to mie parke your seruauÌ„t a chamber by him self next to yours ye had Leades faire and large on the vvhich ye might vvalke and haue prospect both ouer the Parkes Gardeins and Orchardes And therevvith thrise in the vveake at the least vvhiles I laie at VValtham vvith one by me appointed you vvalked abroade into the Parkes Garden and Orchard and this you call your close emprisonment Sixthly touching my complaint to the most honourable of you vvherby you vvere remitted prisoner againe to the Tovver vvhat the same vvas their honours can vvel declare if their pleasure so be beinge suer that I haue not broken promise vvith you hitherto in vttering your opinioÌ„ against the Lavves of the Realm as I haue before said vvhich ye shevved at anie time in the priuate conference And so ye haue not anie cause to challenge me in that behalfe To conclude by the premisses it maie appeare to the honourable as by a tast vvhat sinceritie there is in you Againe that this your quarelling and .688 belying me by spreading this booke vvas and is chieflie to recouer your credit vvith those of your faction vvho as I haue saied had conceiued doubt of your reuolt and to confirme them in their grounded .689 errour and herevvith to bringe me and other suche as I am into obloquie and hatred And lastlie to impugne and barke against the Q. Maiesties .690 Lavvfull and due authoritie vvhich you and your complices dailie labour to subuert vvhich matter I referre to be further considered by the graue vvisdome of the moste honourable FINIS The .14 Chapter of certaine priuate matters betwene M. FekeÌ„ham and M. Horne And of certaine especial heresies auouched by M. Horne wherby to conclude he concludeth himselfe a plaine heretike Stapleton THis being the last parte of all standeth moste vppon mutuall accusations M. Fekenham fynding him selfe greaued that he should be missused at M. Hornes table and there to be noted of incontinencie gluttonie and hypocrisie that rumours should be spread abrode by M. Hornes seruantes of his subscription and recantation and finally that contrary to M. Hornes promise made to hym that he should suffer no domage or hurte for any wordes passed betwixt them he was first restrained of his libertie accustomable by M. Horne and kepte there close prisoner vj. wekes and afterward by his procurement remitted to the Towre M. Horne on the other side denieth that euer he was priuie to any such rumour and complayneth as fast vppon M. Fekenham and his disorder as calling M. Deny Epicure at his owne table and for openly calling him self almost in plaine termes heretike He putteth M. FekeÌ„ham in remembraunce of certaine talke passed betwene them as that a man may fast aswell with fleshe as with fishe of mortall and deadly synne and other matters As for the restraynte of his liberty he sayth it came vppon his owne disorder and that in coÌ„playning vpon him to the Councell he brake no promisse with him These matters then being such as priuately passed betwene them I beinge one that neither was then present nor yet sithence fully vnderstanding any certainty of them must leaue this to M. Fekenhams owne defence when the time shal serue Sauing that so muche I can say that I haue bene credibly enformed that M. FekeÌ„ham doth deny as wel that he misused M. Deny as such other things as M. Horne chargeth him withal and is ready to stand to and to iustifie al such things as are conteined in this his shedule if he may be suffred And suerly among other things to them that knewe his order and diet either before his comming to prison either in the towre when he had the liberty of the same wheras I am credibly enformed he neuer made three meales it can not seme credible and likely that he shuld at Waltham as M. Horne saith make three
to maÌ„ By which feate aÌ„d sleight by turning CoÌ„cupisceÌ„ce into sin they proued both their Imputatiue righteousnes as that maÌ„ was neuer iuste good and holy but only was accepted for such though he remained stil a sinner aÌ„d had sin alwaies in him and also that the same sinne was in him a deadly and mortall sinne Which is the thinge that M. Horne here affirmeth auouching that euery sinne of yt selfe is mortal Which to make an ende hereof shortly is as much to say as euery sicknesse infirmitie or disease is of it self death For as the body liueth by the soule so the soule liueth by God As the body dieth when the soule is separated from it so the soule dieth when God is gone from it Which matter S. Augustin most excellently handleth in his notable worke de Ciuitate Dei As therefore not euery disordered affection of the body killeth it out of hande but the body is longe and much vexed with deseases and infirmites before it dye yea and as longe as the desease reacheth not to the harte or roote of vital humour where hence the life springeth as longe as that principle of life is whole and sounde the body liueth and dieth not so not euery coÌ„uersion of the soule to the creatures bredeth a separation of the soule froÌ„ the Creatour but the soule fighteth againste the fleshe and though in that fight it take a blowe yea and a wounde to now and theÌ„ yet the sowle recouereth it selfe and yeldeth not wholy to the fleshe or to any other creature but cleaueth stil to God his Creatour loueth him stil kepeth his lawe and so falleth not deadly neyther synneth mortally vntyll it geue ouer to vice and forsaketh God Which euil men doe without any fight or combat at al. But good men either not at al or very seldom and after great fight and theÌ„ are they no more good men or the childreÌ„ of God but are nowe become the children of wrathe so to perish euerlastingly except they repente This is a greate and a clere distinction betwene mortal sinne and venial synne Now where you adde that though euery synne be of yt selfe mortal yet it is also venial to be purged by the merites of Christ only yf you take venial for pardonable or remissible we grauÌ„te euery synne be it neuer so mortall is in such a sense venial the synne against the holy Ghoste which is finall impeniteÌ„ce alonely excepted But yf you take venial as it is an opposite to mortal as M. FekenhaÌ„ toke it wheÌ„ he auouched that by a godly ceremony venial synnes may be remitted and as you must take it yf you wil coÌ„trary M. Fekenhams assertion then are you in an other foule errour For as the venial synne is not mortal as I haue proued so neither is any mortal synne venial as longe as it is mortall This confounding of degrees in synne to make all mortall is a Stoical and Barbarous paradoxe opening the gate to al dissolutenesse and licentiousnesse not only coÌ„trary to truth and lerning but coÌ„trary to good life and good maners And it semeth to agree iumpe with Luthers paradoxe wherein he taught and defended That a good worke be it neuer so wel done is according to the mercy of God a venial sinne and according to the IudgemeÌ„t of God a mortal sinne Which straunge paradoxe of that fonde fryer beinge lernedly and pithely confuted of our learned and holie countreman the blessed Bishoppe of Rochester Doctour Fysher I remitte the lerned Readers to that place where also they shall fynde this distinction of mortall and veniall sinne clerely prosecuted againste the wicked doctrine of Luther there and against the peuishe assertion of M. Horne here Where you adde by the merites of Christe onely yf you meane as by the principal effect and by the vertue wherof only all other workes of men are auaylable and meritorious I grauÌ„t you say wel But yf you say mortal synne is purged by the merites of Christ only excluding by the worde only al repentance contrition of harte confession of the mouthe and satisfaction of our owne partes to our ability I note it for an other foule errour and wicked heresye of Luther your grandsir whereby to extolle the merites of Christ you doe ful peuishly exclude al worke of maÌ„ which yet the Scriptures expressely require to concurre with the merits of Christ not as of theÌ„ selues simply auailable but as by the merit of Christes passioÌ„ auaylable aÌ„d as the workes of the holy Ghost geueÌ„ vnto vs by Charity poured into our harts good aÌ„d meritorious RemeÌ„bre M. Horn what Christ said to the Pharisees Oportebat ista facere illa noÌ„ intermittere You ought to doe these thiÌ„gs aÌ„d not to omit the other things Put altogether M. Horne Christes merites purchase heaueÌ„ to mankind It is most true And yet it purchaseth not heaueÌ„ to the Infidell to the Iewe to the heretike or to the wicked ChristiaÌ„ But oÌ„ly to such as haue faith that worketh by charity which charity coÌ„preheÌ„deth al maner of good works You affirme beside against M. Fekenham that no veniall sinne can be remitted by any ceremony For a short answer to this point bicause largely this matter is treated by M. Allen in his last booke of the power of priesthod c. heare what S. Augustin sayth in his Enchiridio within few chapters after the wordes lastly recited where he made a distinction betwene crimen and peccatum Thus he saith De quotidianis autem breuibus leuibúsque peccatis sine quibus haec vita non ducitur quotidiana oratio fidelium satisfacit As coÌ„cerning the daily short and light sinnes without the which no man liueth the daily prayer of the faithefull doth satisfye By the daily prayer he meaneth the Pater noster as in the same chapter he expoundeth him self Againe in the next chapter he teacheth that by all kindes of almes dedes vnder almes dedes comprehending al good workes such venial sins are forgeueÌ„ Thê° he saith after a loÌ„g enumeratioÌ„ of good works Multa itaque genera sunt eleemosynaruÌ„ quae cuÌ„ facimê° adiuuamur vt dimittaÌ„tur nobis nostra peccata There are therfore many kinds of almes dedes which wheÌ„ we doe we are holpeÌ„ to haue our sins forgeueÌ„ vnto vs. Nowe why are the saying of our daily prayer aÌ„d the doiÌ„g of almes dedes thought of this lerned Father to redeme these smaller sinnes but bicause as such sins are not coÌ„mitted with a total auersioÌ„ froÌ„ God the creatour for so were they mortal not venial but by a fraile coÌ„uersioÌ„ to the creature so again euery good motioÌ„ to God ward again expressed by some such vertuous act redemeth in the sight of God the former decliniÌ„g froÌ„ God This ReuereÌ„t motioÌ„ to Godward as it is expressed by S. Augustin here for exaÌ„ples fake in sayiÌ„g the Pater noster aÌ„nd in doing of almes dedes so by the IudgmeÌ„t of the Church which no true
Conc. TuroÌ„ 2 can 21. Euag. li. 4. ca. 38. Niceph. li. 17. ca. 27. Al this is graunted but M. Hornes Primacie neuer a vvhitte thereby furdered The Emperoure 198 coÌ„mauÌ„deth the Pope to com to the sinod The .198 Vntruth For not in that sence as M. Horn imagineth vilz to inforce thereby a Supreme gouernemente Iustinians testimonies for the Popes primacie CoÌ„st 131 ex traÌ„sl hal Sancimus vt sancti ecclesiastici canones quiâ—a sanctis 4. CoÌ„cilijs Niceno ConstaÌ„t Ephes. Chalcedon expositi sunt vicem legum obtine ant Praedictorum enim sanctorum ConcilioruÌ„ decreta perinde vt sacras scripturas suscipimus â–ª canones vt leges custodimus Ac propterea sancimus vt secundum eorum definitiones sanctiss veteris Ro. Papae primuâ— oiÌ„m sacerd sit SuÌ„mi poÌ„tificatus apiceÌ„ apud Romam esse nemo eÌ„ qui dubitet Lib. 1. Cod. Iustin. de summae Trinitate Ideóque oeÌ„s sacerdotes vniuersi orientalis traectus et subijcere et vnire sedi vest Sanctitatis properauimus mox Nec eniÌ„ patimur quicquaÌ„ quod ad ecclesiaruÌ„ statuÌ„ ê‘tinet quà muis manifestuÌ„ indubitatuÌ„ sit quod mouetur vt noÌ„ eÌ„t vestrae iÌ„notescat Sanct. quae Caput est oim sanctaruÌ„ eccliÌ„aruÌ„ SecuÌ„duÌ„ eoruÌ„ definitiones c. vt suprà const 131. Sancimus sacras sequeÌ„tes regulas c. const 5. SecunduÌ„ diuinas regulas sancimus sacras per omnia sequentes regulas const 6. Sequentes igitur ea quae sacris definita suÌ„t Canonib CoÌ„ 123. Si ecclesiasticuÌ„ negotiuÌ„ sit nullam coÌ„munioneÌ„ habento ciuiles magistratus cuÌ„ ea disceptatione sed religiosiss episcopi se cunduÌ„ sacros canones negotio fineÌ„ iÌ„ponuÌ„â—â— Const. 109. Haereticos illi dixeruÌ„t et nos dicimus quicuÌ„que meÌ„brum sanctae Dei catholicae apostolicae ecclesiae noÌ„ sunt in qua omnes sanctissimi totius habitati orbis paetriarchae tam Romae occidentalis quam huius regiae vrbis AlexaÌ„driae Theopolis Hâ—erosolymoruÌ„ oeÌ„s sub ijs coÌ„stituti episcopi vno ore Apostolicam fideÌ„ traditioneÌ„ praedicaÌ„t Qui igitur incoÌ„taminata coiÌ„one in Catholica ecclesia Dei amaÌ„tiss huius sacerdotib noÌ„ participant opt iure vocamus haereticos CoÌ„stit 42 in Nouel QuaÌ„ sententiaÌ„ taÌ„ etsi per se valeÌ„tem multò tameÌ„ adhuc valentioreÌ„ reddit maiestas imperatoria quae regia hac vrbe ipsuÌ„ expellit Hovve themperours be said to strengtheÌ„ the lavves of the Churche Tom. 2. Concil pag. 21. Act. 1. pag. 61. In praeam epist CoÌ„c Chalced. The 199. vntruth There is no suche Title The 200. vntruth Flat and open as it shal appeare The 201. vntruth Not to dispatche that vvorde is not in the Councel but finem imponere to make an end of by finall Sentence The priÌ„ce the highest potentate next to God 202 in al causes The .202 vntruth You ouer rech your Author In al causes is more theÌ„ your Author said God reserueth to the prince the fulnes of direction in .203 Ecclesiastical causes The 203. vntruthe as before For of Ecclesiastical causes the Author speaketh not but of banishing heretiks The .204 vntruth False translatioÌ„ for not to considre but Canonice finem accipere to conclude c. The 205. vntruthe A parte of the sentence nipped of quyte ouerthrovving M. Hornes purpose Tom. 2. coÌ„cil pa. 20 Act. 1. CoÌ„staÌ„ pa. 20 Prima ergo est sententia quae in ConstaÌ„tinopoli coÌ„tra Anthimum lata est secunda autem sententiae quae in Constant. fuit coÌ„tra Seuerum PetruÌ„ Zoaram Terita coÌ„stitutio est ordinaria Quarta autem actio in Hierosolymis et haec omnia in 4. meÌ„sibê° facta sancitae fuerunt Tom. 2. Conc. pa. 20. b. Tom. 2. Conc. pa. 23. col 1. Const 42. Haec decreuimus sanctorum patrum canones sequuti â—om 2. Câ—c pa. 62 Haec senteÌ„tâ—auimus sequentes sanctorum patruÌ„ dogmata Conc. CoÌ„stant 5. Act. 1. To. 2. pag. 61. Tom. 2. Conc. Synod 5. Act. 1. pag. 61. col 2. a Rem non insolitam imâ—erio nos facieÌ„tes ad praesentem veni nus legeÌ„ Quoties enim sacerdotuÌ„ sententia quosdam indignos sacerdotio de sacris sedibê° deposuit queÌ„ admoduÌ„ Nestorium Eutychen Arrium Macedonium Eunâ—mium ac quosdam alios ad iniquitatem non minores illis toties imperium eiusdem sententia ordinationis cum sacerdotum authoritate fuit sic que diuina humana pariter concurrentia vnam consonantiam rectis sententiis fecere quemadmodum nuper factum esse contrae AnthymuÌ„ scimus qui quideÌ„ deiectus est de sede huius regiae vrbis a sanctae gloriosae memoriae Agapeto sanctis Ecclesiae antiquae Romae pontifice eò quòd c. Nothing may be don in Churche maters vvithout the princes authority The .206 vntruthe double both in the text aÌ„d in the margin standing in false traÌ„slatioÌ„ Nihil eoruÌ„ quae in sanctissima ecclesia moueÌ„tur coÌ„uenit fieri To. 2. coÌ„cil p. 78. co 2 Nos sicut scit vostra charitas apostolicaÌ„ sedem sequimur obedimus ipsius communâ—catores coÌ„municatores habemus condemnatos ab ipsa nos condemnamus Act. 4. pag. 87. Cyrillus Epist. 10. 11. Coelest epi. 12. inter epist. Cyril The 207. vntruthe The godly Fathers neuer confessed so The 208. vntruthe Notorious and impudent often auouched but neuer proued Cod. lib. 1. tit 17. The 209. vntruthe Not vvhich his Auncestours but vvhich the Apostles and fathers of the Church had made before Nou. CoÌ„ 3. Themperours ecclesiastical Lavves The .210 Vntruth Not he but the CanoÌ„s of the Church before gaue that autority He only putteth the matter by his lavve in executioÌ„ CoÌ„st 5. The .211 vntruth Not he but the Churche prescribed that order and rule Const. 6. * M. Horn is not so qualified for he hath he saieth a wife Ergo M. Horne by his ovvne law yea of the Apostles making must lose his Bisshoprik Const. 57 Const. 58. Const. 6. Hoc auÌ„t futuruÌ„ esse credimus si sacraruÌ„ regularuÌ„ obseruatio custodiatur quaÌ„ iusti laudandi et adorandi inspectores et ministri Dei tradideruÌ„t apost et sancti patres custodieruÌ„t et explanaruÌ„t Sancimus igitur sacras per oiÌ„a sequeÌ„tes regulas c. aut in virginitate degens à principto aut vxoreÌ„ habens ex virginitate ad eum venienteÌ„ et noÌ„ viduaÌ„ mox de caeterâ— auÌ„t nulli permittentes à a positione legis vxoreÌ„ habentitalem imponi ordinationeÌ„ Ibidem Sacro Statim cadat ordine et deinceps idiota sit There is not a Protestant Bisshop in England by the coÌ„stitution that M. Horne him selfe alleageth Hovve vvell M. Hornes doctrine agreeth vvith IustiniaÌ„s for the monastical life * This ansvvereth all your processe M. Horn The Emperoure foloveth the canoÌ„s The CanoÌ„s vver made of Bisshops in Councels and Synods Ergo he folovveth the Bisshops If he folovve theÌ„ he goeth
kepeth a solemne festiuall daie of the holy Ghoste sodenly by the wicked Turks besieged and shortly after the city and the whole Greke empire came into the Turks hands and possession Wherein God seameth as before to the Iewes so afterwarde to the Grecians as yt were with pointing and notyfying yt with his finger to shewe and to notifie to all the worlde the cause of the finall destruction as well of the one as of the other people But what speke I of Grece we nede not ronne to so fare yeares or contries The case toucheth vs much nearer The realme of Boheame and of late yeares of France and Scotlande the noble contrey of Germany with some other that I neade not name be to to lyuely and pregnant examples of this your true but neadlesse and impertinente admonition For the whiche notwithstandinge seeinge ye deale so freelye and liberallye I thowght good also to returne you an other I suppose not neadlesse or impertinente for you and such other as doe prayse and commende so highly this Andronicus doinges And nowe might I here breake of from this and goe further forth sauing that I can not suffer you to bleare the readers eies as thowgh the Emperours Theodosius and Valentinianus sayings or doings shoulde serue any thinge for your pretensed primacy We saith Valentinian to the Emperour Theodosius owght to defende the faithe which we receiued of our auncetours withe all competente deuotion and in this our tyme preserue vnblemished the worthy reuerence dewe to the blessed Apostle Peter So that the most blessed bisshop of the cyty of Rome to whome antiquity hath geuen the principality of priesthod aboue all other may O most blessed father and honorable Emperour haue place and liberty to geue iudgement in such matters as concerneth faith and priests And for this cause the bisshop of Constātinople hath according to the solemne order of councells by his lybel appealed vnto hī And this is writē M. Horne to Theodosius him self by a commō letter of Valentinian and the Empresses Placidia and Eudoxia Which Placidia writeth also a particular letter to her said sonne Theodosius and altogether in the same sense Harken good M. Horne and geue good aduertisement I walke not and wander as ye doe here alleaging this Emperour in an obscure generality whereof can not be enforced any certayne particularity of the principal Question I goe to worke with you plainly trewlye and particularlye I shewe you by your own Emperour and by playn words the Popes supremacy and the practise withal of appeales frō Constantinople to Rome that it is the lesse to be marueled at yf Michael in the forsayde coūcel at Lions cōdescēded to the same And your Andronicus with his Grecians the lesse to be borne withal for breaking and reuoking the said Emperours good and lawful doings Neither is it to be thought that Theodosius thowght otherwise of this primacy But because ye hereafter wring and wrest him to serue your turne I will set him ouer to that as a more commodiouse place to debate his doings therein M. Horne The .26 Diuision Pag. 19. a. Hitherto I haue proued plainly by the holy Scriptures and by some suche Doctours as frō age to age haue vvitnessed th' order of ecclesiasticall gouernmēt in the Church of Christ yea by the confession testimony and example of some of the most godly Emperours thēselues that such .69 like gouernment in Church causes as the Queenes maiesty taketh vpō her doth of duty belōg vnto the ciuil Magistrates and Rulers and therfore they may yea they ought to claim and take vpon them the same Novv remayneth that I proue this same by the continual practise of the like gouernment in some one parte of Christendom and by the general counsayles vvherein as ye affirme the right order of Ecclesiastical gouernment in Christ his Church hath been most faithfully declared and shevved from tyme to tyme. Stapleton Hitherto you haue not brought any one thing to the substantial prouf of your purpose worth a good strawe neither scripture nor Doctour nor Emperour Among your fowre emperours by you named ye haue iugled in one that was a stark heretik but as subtily as ye thought ye had hādled the matter ye haue not so craftely cōueyed your galles but that ye are espied Yet for one thing are ye here to be cōmended that now ye would seame to frame as a certain fixed state of the matter to be debated vpō ād to the which ye would seme to direct your proufs that ye wil bring And therin you deale with vs better thē hitherto ye haue done seaming to seke by dark generalities as it were corners to luske and lurke in Neither yet here walke ye so plainly ād truely as ye woulde seme but in great darknes with a scōse of dymme light that the readers should not haue the clere vew and sight of the right way ye should walke in whom with this your dark sconse ye leade farre awrie For thus you frame vs the state of the Question M. Horne The 27. Diuision Pag. 19. b. The gouernment that the Queenes maiesty taketh most iustly vppon her in Ecclesiastical causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the Ecclesiastical state vvithin her dominions to the furtheraunce maintenaunce and setting foorth of true religion vnity and quietnes of Christes Church ouerseyng visitīg refourming restrayning amending ād correcting al maner persons vvith al maner errours superstitiōs Heresies Schismes abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes Religiō vvhatsoeuer This same authority rule and gouernmēt vvas practised in the Catholik Church by the most Christiā Kings and Emperours approued cōfirmed and cōmended by the best counsailes both general and national The .20 Chapter Declaring the state of the Question betwene M. Horne and Fekenhā touching the Othe Stapleton HEre is a state framed of you M. Horne but farre square from the Question in hande For the Question is not nowe betwene M. Fekēham and you whether the Prince may visit refourme and correcte all maner of persons for al maner of heresies and schismes and offences in Christian Religion which perchaunce in some sense might somewhat be borne withal if ye meane by this visitation and reformation the outward execution of the Churche lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with his edictes and executed with his sworde For in such sorte many Emperours and Princes haue fortified and strenghthened the decrees of bisshops made in Councels both general and national as we shal in the processe see And this in Christian Princes is not denied but commended But the Question is here now whether the Prince or lay Magistrat may of him selfe and of his owne princely Authority without any higher Ecclesiasticall power in the Churche within or without the Realme visit refourme and correct and haue al maner of gouernmēt and Authority in al things and causes ecclesiastical or no. As whether the Prince may by
a special liceÌ„ce Neither do the .574 expresse vvords of the statut geue to the prince al manner of iurisdictioÌ„s in such absolute vvise as you report in any wise and any spiritual iurisdictioÌ„ within the realme For these termes all maner in any wise and any spiritual iurisdiction vvhich you enforce so much are not found in the gift or restitutition of spiritual iurisdictioÌ„ made by the acte vnto the Prince but in that part vvhere the Acte geueth aftervvard povver and authority to the Prince to execute the IurisdictioÌ„ novv vnited and annexed to the Croune by mete delegats to be assigned named â–ª aÌ„d authorised by coÌ„missioÌ„ or letters patents vnder the great Seale of england If ye vvil hereof infer that bycause the princes haue by vertue of the acte full povver and authority to name assigne and authorise any person vvhom they shal thinke mete to exercise vse occupy and exequute vnder theÌ„ al maner of iurisdictions priuileges and preheminences in any vvise touching or concerning any spiritual or ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ vvithin theyr dominions or countries Therfore al maner iurisdictioÌ„ is in the prince to be exercised vsed occupied and executed by them for othervvise you vvil say the princes cannot geue aÌ„d coÌ„mit to others that vvhich they haue not receiued and is not in theÌ„ selues Your argument is easely ansvvered in fevv vvords it is a foule .575 SophisticatioÌ„ à secunduÌ„ quid ad simpliciter These vvords of the act al maner in any wise are .576 restrained and bouÌ„ded vvithin the limites of the gift vvhere you of purpose to beguile the simple vvithal do let theÌ„ runne at large and set them forth as mère and simple vniuersalles vvithout any limites at al. The Acte geueth or restoreth to the prince iurisdictions priuileges superiorities and preheminencies spirituall and ecclesiastical but it .577 addeth this limitation suche as by any spirituall or ecclesiastical povver or authority hath heretofore ben or may laufully be exercised or vsed And for that these vvords as by any spiritual or ecclesiastical power or authority hath heretofore ben or laufully be exercised and vsed may be maliciously stretched by avvraÌ„gling Papist and might seme to som that haue good meaning also to geue ouer large a scope the mater or obiect vvherin or vvhere about those spiritual or ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„s priuileges superiorities and prehemineÌ„ces are exercised vsed and doe consist is limited aÌ„d added in these .578 expresse vvords for the visitation of the ecclesiastical state and persoÌ„s and for reformatioÌ„ order and correction of the same and of al maner errors heresies schismes abuses offences conteÌ„ptes and enormities vvhich vvords of limitatioÌ„ in the gift as they geue not to the prince the exercise of that iurisdiction that coÌ„sisteth and vvorketh in the invvarde and secrete court of coÌ„science by the preaching of the vvord and ministration of the Sacramentes vvhich beloÌ„geth only and alone to the Bishops neither do they authorise the prince to vse that iurisdiction that belongeth properly to the vvhole church eueÌ„ so do they geue rightly vnto the prince to exercise al maner iurisdictions priuileges superiorities and preeminences in any vvise touching and coÌ„cerning any spiritual or ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ .579 coÌ„teined vnder the second kind of cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ for that may the Prince laufully exercise and vse and doth not beloÌ„g vnto the Bisshops othervvise then by .580 coÌ„mission and authority of positiue Lavves This limitatioÌ„ of iurisdiction set forth by expresse vvords in the Act you knovv right vvel ye vvere also at sundrie times put in mind thereof and you vvere vvel assured that your alleaging the vvords of the Act so darkly coÌ„fusedly and .581 vntruly could neuer further your cause amoÌ„gest the vvise and yet vvould you nedes publissh them in this sort to the people vvherby at the least to make both the Prince and the lavv odious vnto the simple subiects The Bisshops haue by the expres vvord of God coÌ„mission of spiritual gouernmet ouer their flock that is to fede the flock of Christ coÌ„mitted to their charge vvith Gods holy vvord as I haue declared before â—hey haue coÌ„mission to absolue the faithfully peniteÌ„t and to retaine or bind the impeniteÌ„t that is to .582 declare and assure both the one and the other by the vvord of the Ghospel of Gods iudgemeÌ„t tovvard theÌ„ VVhat vvil ye infer herof VVil ye coÌ„clude therfore they haue al maner of Spiritual gouernmeÌ„t oâ—â—urisdictioÌ„ ouer theÌ„ YoÌ„g LogiciaÌ„s knovv this is an yl coÌ„sequeÌ„t that coÌ„cludeth vpoÌ„ one or diuers particulars affirmatiuely an vniuersall Thus .583 ye argue Bisshops by the expres vvord of God haue coÌ„mission to preach to their cures to remit or retein sinnes Ergo they haue coÌ„mission by the expres vvord of God to SoÌ„mon CouÌ„cels or Synods general or prouincial to visit that is iudicially sitting in iudgemeÌ„t to enquire of meÌ„s maners and forinsically to punissh or correct and to decide the coÌ„trouersies amoÌ„gst the people touching contracts of matrimony vvhordom tythes sclaunders c. And to ordeine Decrees Lavves Ceremonies Rites c. If this conclusion follovv consequently vpon your antecedent theÌ„ doth it ouerthrovv the doctrin of your Romissh diuinity vvhich grauÌ„teth not to the Bisshops iÌ„mediatly from God this povver vvithout a special commission from the Pope in vvhom only as the Papists say is fulnes of iurisdictioÌ„ and povver But if this conclusion follovv not consequeÌ„tly vpoÌ„ the aÌ„tecedeÌ„t as a maÌ„ more theÌ„ half blind may plainly see it doth not theÌ„ haue ye concluded 584 nothiÌ„g at al by Christes diuinity that may further the matter ye haue taken in hande to proue You falsly reporte the scriptures in this that you saie the Bisshops haue coÌ„mission by the expres vvord of God to geue vnto their flockes and cures the holy Ghoste by imposition of their handes For the place vvhich â—e quote for that purpose expresseth no such commission neither .585 any other place of the holy scriptures The Bishoppes haue so daungerous a cure and chardge ouer the soules committed vnto them that God vvill require the bloud of those that perishe thorough their negligence at their handes and therfore hath geuen them sufficient commission for the discharge of their cures It vvere therefore an horrible absurdity if they might not exercise any Iurisdiction ouer them if they might not visit refourme order and correct them by that commissioÌ„ vvithout a further commission from the Q. highnes But doo yee not perceiue vvhich the most simple may see vvhereof also yee often vvere admonished by me your vvarbling sleight and Sophisticall quarellinge in equiuocation of vvordes and termes As there are tvvo .586 sortes of IurisdictioÌ„ vvhereof the one not Cohibitiue properly belongeth to the Bishoppe vvhich he may and ought to exercise ouer his flocke vvithout any other commission than of Christ so to visit refourme order and correct are of tvvo sortes the one
a Scripturely visitacion reformation and correction by the onely vvorde of God vvhich the Bishoppes may and ought to exercise in time and out of time vvith all possible vvatchefulnes and diligence vvithout any further commission The other kinde of visitation reformation and correction is Forinsecall or courtly vvhiche I comprehende vnder the seconde kinde of Cohibitiue Iurisdiction and this the Bishoppe may not exercise vvithout a further commission from the Prince VVerefore it is ouer foule an absurdity in you to inferre that the Bisshops may not exercise any IurisdictioÌ„ visitacioÌ„ reformatioÌ„ or correctioÌ„ bicause they may not vse this Forinsecal or courtly vvithout the Princes commission Stapleton M. Horne after that he hath bene so bolde with Delphinus to frame his argumentes and wreste then at his owne pleasure he is as bold with M. Fekenhams arguments also M. Feckenham argueth thus Spiritual gouernment is geueÌ„ to Bishops by Gods speciall worde namely to loose and bynde to shutte vppe heauen gates and to geue the holie ghoste Ergo the Prince is not the supreame gouernour in all causes spiritual according to the wordes of the statute Ergo all maner spirituall iurisdictioÌ„ is not to be authorised of the Prince as the Acte expressely and most generallie auoucheth Ergo yt is not true that they may not visite or reforme theire flocke withowt the Princes commission This argumentes being good and sownd M. Horne leapeth me in and saieth that M. Fekenham toke vppon him to proue the second kind of cohibitiue iurisdiction to be by the expresse worde of God immediatly appointed to bishoppes and priestes without further commission of Princes And this argument he doth more soleÌ„ly repete againe in the .2 leafe following and goeth about to soile yt being his own and not M. FekenhaÌ„s argument For thinke you M. Horne that M. Fekenham hath or will allowe your first and seconde cohibitiue iurisdiction His examples are of the power of order or of the keies and of that that you cal the first Cohibitiue iurisdiction Why then do you so falsly charge him leauing out the first two and the verie principall partes Let vs nowe heare what ye say further to him You accuse his euill dealing with the words of the acte expressiÌ„g an vnkindly meaning to the prince and the state Yea say that thoughe the statute doth geue or rather restore to the Prince all maner of iurisdictions or preheminences towching any Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction yet the wordes must not be taken so generallie but must be referred and limited to and with other wordes of the sayde statute that is for the visitation reformation and correction of the ecclesiasticall state and of all maner of errours and heresies By the which wordes of limitation the Prince as you inferre of it is as well restrained from doing any thing in the publike ministerie by preaching or ministring Sacraments as from that iurisdiction that standeth in excommunication and hath onelie thereby the second kinde of cohibitiue Iurisdiction Surelie here is a marueilouse and a woÌ„derfull interpretatioÌ„ M. Horne vrgeth M. FekenhaÌ„ to swere that he beleueth in conscience that the Prince is Supreme Gouernour in all causes Ecclesiastical He addeth as ye haue heard that those wordes must be takeÌ„ without limitatioÌ„ or exceptioÌ„ and yet him selfe excepteth the chief things or causes ecclesiastical Wherby a man may much better coÌ„clude and swere to the coÌ„trary that is that the Prince is not Supreme Gouernour in al Spiritual causes Surelie to imagine and to defende the Prince to be supreme ruler in al causes aÌ„d yet to abridge his authoritie in so many causes is much like as if one should say and affirme of some man that he is a king but yet he is able to coÌ„maund no man to prison for any offence he is a king but if ther be any warre he can coÌ„maund no man to serue him he is a king but yet if there be any businesse stur or disorder in the people he neither can punish theÌ„ nor make out any decree or proclamatioÌ„ against his rebels Of the which premisses they being true it wil follow that in deede he is no king But surely M. Horne me thinke as I haue said that ye aduenture very far and dauÌ„gerously wheÌ„ in the other part touching iurisdiction ye restraine and limit the statute that geueth the authorising of al maner of iurisdictioÌ„ to the Prince yea aÌ„nexeth and vniteth the same to the Croune to the secoÌ„d cohibitiue oÌ„ly And what kind of visitatioÌ„ or reformatioÌ„ shal the Prince make by his ecclesiastical authority if you take away the authority to excoÌ„municat which al ecclesiastical visiters haue aÌ„d euer had and which also expresly beloÌ„geth to the secoÌ„d kind of cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ which you make to depeÌ„d of only princes by your own author Antoniê° as I haue before shewed CoÌ„sider M. Horn whether M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ may not iustly say to you that you deal very yl with the words of the act and you expres an vnkiÌ„dly meaning to the Prince aÌ„d the state Wel if there be no remedy but that by your interpretation directe contrary to all reason and the manifeste wordes of the statute the statute it selfe may be so eluded and that ye may by your owne absolute authority spoile your supreame head of one cheif pointe and power ecclesiastical yea of the very cohibitiue IurisdictioÌ„ which you woulde seme to grauÌ„te him with this your pretie and newly coyned distinction which prince like ye woulde haue to be as yt were good and curraÌ„t mony I meane of your two kindes of cohibitiue iurisdiction which I suppose shall neither be founde in any good Diuine nor in any boke of the temporall lawe in all Englande yet woulde I fayne heare from you of some good and conuenient proufe whie the seconde cohibitiue as ye call yt remayneth in the prince onely more then the first Or why if that remaine excommunicatioÌ„ being a part thereof remaineth not in the Prince also I would know farder wheÌ„ euer this iurisdictioÌ„ was takeÌ„ away froÌ„ the PriÌ„ces that it must now be restored again Verely that which they neuer had could neuer be takeÌ„ away And much lesse can it be restored theÌ„ which by no right euer belonged to theÌ„ For shew M. Horne yf you can with al your study and coÌ„fereÌ„ce with your frendes but one exaÌ„ple of any Catholik Prince either in EnglaÌ„d or in al the world beside that gaue the bishops any coÌ„missioÌ„ for the secoÌ„d cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ as ye call it specified in those exaÌ„ples that your self reherse out of Antonius I wil geue you one whole twelue moneths M. Horne to bring foorth but one such example I neuer read I neuer heard of any suche commission Onely in the late daies of king Edward the sixt his time I finde such commissions by the whiche al Archbishops Bisshops and other Ecclesiastical persons did then exercise all their Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction There I finde though vntruely