which truelie comprehendeth all thinges vniuersallie These wordes in rehearsing the saying of Vincentius our answerer could not beare and therefore left them out bragging of vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent whereby his aduersaries spirit might quicklie be tried But let him once attempt to trie anie one peece of Poperie by this rule of Vincentius and so shew it to be Catholike as he describeth Catholike and he shall finde it an harder matter to performe then to talke of examining his point by the authenticall writings of the most auncient doctors for 200. yeares after Christ. The seuenth waie of triall is succession of Popes in the seate of Rome wherein the successor alwaies teaching the doctrine of his predecessor it must needes be a strong argument to prooue the descent and continuance of one the same faith from the Apostles time This argument is vsed by Saint Augustine and Optatus against the Manichees and Donatistes But this waie of triall he knoweth his aduersaries will not admit But he is deceiued for seeing he ioyneth succession in doctrine with succession in place let him make triall when he dare and prooue that Peter and all the Bishops of Rome that liued for foure fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ did holde all points of Poperie and had none other faith then the Papists haue now Some of the later mightholde some few and of the best errors But let them shew all in euerie one and take all but that shall thev neuer be able to doe brag they of succession as long as they list The eight waie of triall is to examine what part doth holde any olde condemned heresie for the true Church can neuer admit or defend any heresie for otherwise she could not be the piller of truth The true Church may erre in matters which are not of necessitie to saluation yet be the piller of trueh so long as she holdeth al truth necessarie to saluation yea some true Church may be seduced for a time with hereticall opinions as the Churches of Corinth and Galatia but not obstinately defend them nor continue in them For of a particuler Church as the Church of Ephesus the Apostle speaketh wherein Timothie had his conuersation But we beleeue saith the answerer with holie Athanasius in his creede that he which holdeth not the faith whollie in all points shall perish eternallie howsoeuer our aduersaries doe salue the matter in their Prophets Berengarius Husse Wicklife and Luther whome they saie to haue bene holie men and yet to haue erred in diuerse pointes offaith and to haue held their errors obstinatlie to the daie of their death And we beleeue with holie Athanasius that whoesoeuer shall not holde that Catholike faith which he or whoesoeuer vnder his name setteth downe in that Symbole or creed wholl and vndefiled without doubt he shall perish eternallie But not euerie one that erreth in any small point of doctrine or faith which is not of the foundation of our religion For so doth not Athanasius saie and our aduersarie falsisieth both his wordes and meaning to drawe him to that sense of his Now if Berengarius Wicklife Husse Luther cannot be conuinced of any heresie contrarie to Athanasius Creede though they erred in other points they are not subiect to his sentence of eternall damnation more then Cyprian Augustine Hierome whoe erred also in some points of doctrine yet are rightlie accounted saints and elect of God as they which held the foundation and all articles of faith necessarie to saluation But where he chargeth vsto saie that Berengarius Husse c. did erre in diuerse points of faith meaning thereby diuerse articles of Athanasius Creede he doth vs and them great iniury for that we neither saie nor thinke neither saie we that they did obstinatelie holde those errors wherein they were deceiued although they did stiflie holde them not as heretikes which are condemned in their owne conscience but as men deceiued with zeale of truth euen in those points wherin they were deceiued But we beleeue saith he the contrarie by which beliefe he will condemne the best and most auncient Catholike fathers who as men helde euerie one of them for the moste parte one error as hath bene shewed But whoesoeuer coulde shew saith he but one confessed heresie to be defended by our Church there needed no more disputation about the matter It will be a hard matter to make the Papists confesse that their Church holdeth any heresie but it hath beene often shewed that the Popish Church holdeth many things of olde time condemned for heresie as worspiping of the Image of Christ in the Carpocratites and Gnostikes Inuocation of Angels in the Caianes licensing of women to Baptize in the Marcionites worspiping of Angels of men and women that are dead in the Collyridians and such like But for the right vse of this triall he requireth two conditions to be obserued The first is that the partie do in deede holde that which is obiected and not a certaine likelyhood of it in which point he chargeth vs to slaunder them with the heresie of Pelagius concerning free will who held that men without the helpe of Gods grace by the power and force of nature could worke well but they require that a man should be preuented and holpen with the grace of God In trueth we do not obiect vnto them all articles of Pelagius heresie but yet they are not free for Pelagius held that by the power of nature men might keepe Gods law but more easelie by the help of Gods grace the former the Papists holde not but they holde the latter that a man holpen with Gods grace hath free-will and power to keepe Gods law Their doctrine also of merite ex congruo of workes preparatorie before grace and such like are nothing els but branches of the Pelagian heresie The like iniurie he saith we do them in objecting the heresie of those that did sacrifice to our Ladie which they do not A great iniurie I promise you the Collyridians offered cakes onelie to her the Papists offer candels ouches and brouches monie and Iewels The Collyridians did garnish a charret where her Image was the Papists adorne tabernacles as they call them yea chappels altars and Churches to worship her Epiphanius condemneth the studie of making her Image and the Images of dead saints as a deuellish attempt He inueigheth most seuerelie against the worshipping of the virgine Marie of Angels and of saintes departed yetall this is Catholike among the Papists and we offer them iniurie to charge them with this olde heresie because they do not offer cakes as the Collyridians did The second condition is that the heresie obiected be accounted condemned for an heresy in the Primitiue Church not onelie held by an heretike for heretikes held manie trueths together with their heresies And here he complaineth that Doctor Fulke doth them wrong in saying that praiers for the dead is an heresie because the Montanistes which were
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditiō The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to 〈◊〉 vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie 〈◊〉 is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
the primitiue Church any other communitie of goodes then ought to be among all Christians alwaies namelie that no man should account any thing to be his owne otherwise then the necessitie of the Church requiring he should be contented to sell euen his landes and possessions to releeue the poore Neither was Ananias and Saphira punished for breaking of their vow of pouertie but for lying against the holie ghost as the text is plaine whatsoeuer any man say to the contrarie And yet Ierome ad Demetriadem whome you cite saith not that they were punished for breaking their vow of pouertie or that they vowed pouertie but that after they had vowed the wholl price of that land they did reteine part as if it had beene their owne In Basill I finde nothing to such intent But that Ananias and Saphira were punished so seuerelie because they sinned with an high hand proudly contemned the Lord in their hypocrisie Neither doth Master Charke affirme that the Apostles forsaking of their goodes is Anabaptisticall condemning of proprietie as you slaunder him but that the example of Christs voluntary pouertie if it be to be followed bindeth al men alike and speciallie the Pope who claimeth to be Christs owne vicar generall and therefore ought most to follow Christ. It is to no purpose therefore that you will him to reade the places of the doctours to chaunge his opinion For first Hierome in the 19 of Matthew is not content that he which seeketh to be perfect sell all his goodes but he must giue them to the poore and then not liue idlelie of other mens goodes but of his owne labour as the auncient Monkes did with many other conditions that are wanting in Popish votaties Basill inter 9. in reg fus expl hath nothing to this purpose but that men which forsake their goodes to professe monasticall life must not leaue them negligentlie but dispose them to the glorie of God What Saint Chrysostome saith vppon the saluting of Prilca it were good you read ouer your selfe and then tell vs wherefore you would haue Master Charke read it for I finde nothing to alter his iudgement therein Last of al Saint Augst de ciu lib. 17. cap. 4. saieth not that the Apostles votum paupertatis vouerunt For these are his wordes Dixerunt enim potentes illi Ecce nos dimisimus omnia secuti sumus te hoc votum potentissimi vouerunt Sed vnde hoc eis nisi abillo de quo continuò dictum est Dans votum vouenti For these mightie had said behold we haue left all and followed thee this vowe those most mightie had vowed but whence came thie to them but from him of whome it is saide immediately geuing the vow to him that 〈◊〉 Now I haue prooued before that the Apostles leauing all things to follow Christ was not a renouncing of any propertie in their goods except in such case as they could not reteine them and doe the seruice of Christ wherein if you will not beleeue me you are an obstinate heretike by the sentence of Pope Iohn 23. which declared al them to be obstinat heretikes that affirmed Christ and his disciples to haue had nothing priuate or proper He condemned also a glosse of Friar Peter a minorite which had incouraged a certaine couent of a third order to follow the pouerty of Christ of which number many were condemned and burned Platin. in Ioan. 23. How your doctrine and his doth agree looke you vnto it for one of you is greatly deceiued That you conclude the vse of al wordlie blessings to be lawfull it is well That you charge Master Charke or our ministers to allure dandle or smooth men in them to serue their owne bellie c. it is a slaunder that needeth no confutation seeing their open and zealous preaching of repentance and mortification is a sufficient discharge for them before God and all that heare them The forth section which he intituleth of Loialas and Luther IN this section you saie litle defence needeth because the replier hath nothing beside a railing sentence or two against the Iesuites saying that they eate the sinnes of the people Whereas these men neither taking anie charge of soules vpon them nor receiuing anie tithes or other commodities for the same both which things M. Charke doth the reader may iudge whether he or they stand in daunger of the sentence But that which M. Charke saith of eating the sinnes of the people he meaneth not of the Iesuits only or chiefly but of them that giue pardons for money of which the Iesuits are sometimes marchants wherein they may with the Pope eate the sinnes of the people although they haue no benefices which you meane by charge of soules and tithe taking And sure it is they liue not all of Angells food neither are they maintained altogether by pure almes but by an artificiall kinde of cousonage vnder pretence of restitution as their predeceslours the Pharisies vnder pretext of long praiers deuoured the houses of poore widowes and if no man eat the sinnes of the people but they that haue benefices Master Charke is out of daunger of the sentence for he neither hath charge of soules nor tithe or commoditie for the same as you vnderstand the matter Whether Paull the third or Paull the fourth did first allow the sect of Iesuites it is a trifling matter not worth the strife about it It is sufficient for Master Charkes reporte that Paull the fourth did confirme it and there is no more reason that we should beleeue Andradius then that you should credit Kemnitius you haue litle to do that prosequute such fruitles contentions The fift section entituled Of Luther and his doctrine MAster Charke first chargeth you with plainevntrueth in that you saie he doth contemptuouslie or contumeliouslie cal Loialas a souldier where as he doth neither with honour nor with disdaine nor anie waies in all his answer call him a souldier to this charge you are mumme And whereas he doth vnioint your two arguments and manifestlie discouer the insufficiencie of them you denie that you made such argumentes whereby you acknowledge that you brought in these matters of the life of Laiolas and Luther vainlie The slaunders of Papistes against Luthers life you think must be credited because they be matters of fact As though the testimonie of enimies must needes be taken in a matter of fact And that they which are obstinate enemies to the Gospell will care for feare either of damnation or open shame in the world to inuent or brute abroade moste impudent slaunders against the professours of the trueth Concerning Sleidans eleuen thousand lies there is no wise man but laugheth to heare of the number of them And if one Sleydan a Protestant hauing publike recordes and writings to iustifie his storie could yet write eleuen thousand lies against the Papistes as you affirme is it not possible trow you that Coclaeus Hosius Lindanus Xanctes Staphilus Bolsec and
such like being Papistes might write eleuen score lies against Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Caluine Beza and the rest Concerning the reporte of Prateolus that Luther should be begotten of a deuill you saie Master Charke greatlie bewraieth his fasehoode and after you haue set downe the reporte of Prateolus vnperfectlie you praise his modestie and blame the bolde impudencie of William Charke in saying he auoucheth that which he auoucheth not But where doth William Charke faie that Prateolus doth auouch it his wordes are of a slaunder laid downe against Martin Luther how he was begotten of a deuill which you confesse that Prateolus reporteth as he doth in deede out of Coclaeus and Cocleus out of other mens writings whether Prateolus him-selfe doth credit it altogether or no it skilleth not this slaunder among other he laieth downe against Luther and fauoureth the reporte of other so farre that he woulde haue it seeme credible but as for saying that he auoucheth it Master Chark speaketh not one whit Let the Reader therefore iudge who bewraieth his falsehood in this point and vppon whome the reproch of bolde impudencie maie iustlie be laid But Master Charke sheweth as great fullie as impudencie if we beleeue you in making mention of such a foule matter whereupon at the least remaineth a shamefull suspicion In deede it is the triumph of slaunderers if they cannot kill with their stroke yet to leaue a scarre where the wound is healed Although the slaunder of a matter so impossible leaueth no suspition in anie mans head that hath anie witte or vnderstanding in it but discouereth the malice and follie of the inuenters of such monstrous slaunders yet you affirme that the probabilitie of the thing seemeth to haue beene so great in those daies as Erasmus beleeued it But here you go asfarre beyond the modestie of your author Prateolus as ere while you charged Master Charke to be runne For his wordes are these Adhans historiam alludere alicubi Erasmum non est à vero alienum to this story it is not altogether vnlikelie or straunge from the trueth that Erasmus doth in some place allude he saith not that Erasmus did beleeue it No he is not able to prooue that Erasmus did obiect it For the speech of Erasmus is onelie of certaine vncleane speeches where with he complaineth that he was vniustlie charged by Luther in that vnmodest epistle which you translate drunken Now saie you if Master Charke will stand vpon the deniall not so much of the fact as of the nature of the thing it selfe as impossible that spirites can so abuse lewd women that will consent to their lustes you will oppose against him S. Augustine which saith it were impudencie to denie it and Ludouicus viues vpon the same place Sir Cauiller the thing in question is not whether foule spirites maie abuse the bodies of lewd women for beside the authoritie of Saint Augustine who standeth moste vpon testimonies we haue the testimonie of Wierus a man verie expert in such matters who maketh reporte of diuers Nunnes so abused by vncleane spirites yea of diuers Nunneries in which manie were so dealt with all and namelie a notable nunnerie in the borders of the prouince of Collene where the deuill in the likenes of a dogge in the daie time was seene to fall vppon them in moste beastlie manner about 26. yeares agoe Also the Nunnerie of Nazareth in Collen Anno 1564. where the Nunnes in most filthie manner suffered the same illusion oftentimes in the presence and sight of manie But the matter in controuersie is whether Luther were begotten of a Deuill in deniall where of Master Chatke doth stand becuase it is impossible that although the Deuill should abuse the bodie of a woman yet that a man should be borne or gotten by such illusion which neither Augustine affirmeth nor Ludouicus Viues And if you dare auouch that the deuill can begette a childe as it seemeth you would draw your argument to prooue the probabilitie of Luthers conception by such deuillish abusement we will be bolde to saie that you are worthie to be whipt out of the Schooles of Philosophers Phisitians and Diuines if you dare not abide by it to what end do you oppose Saint Augustine and Ludouicus Viues against him Touching the matter of the thunderbolte you saie Master Charke denieth it stoutlie confidentlie and I knowe not how But in trueth Master Charke saith that it is of it selfe vncredible that you saie Luther was stroken with a thunderbolte which would haue taken awaie life or lefte a marke behinde it Neuertheles you williustifie your saying by testimonie of Malancthon who saith he suffeted great terrors that yeare in which he lost his com panion slaine I know not by what chaunce and by Luthers owne confession that he was called by terrours from heauen and for feare of death vowed to be a frier yet neither of these doe prooue either that he was ouerthrowne or striken with a thunderbolte The reportes of Lindane Prateolus and such like you cannot enforce vs to beleeue who sought by all meanes to deface both the person and doctrine of Luther But whether he were ouerthrowne by lightning as Prateolus saith or by feare seeing his fellow flaine by the same and so vowed a superstitious vow it is not greatlie materiall That the deuill cried out of his mouth we hold it still for a verie fable vntill you bring better proofe then the report of Luthers aduersaries Lindane and his fellowes Your ribaudrie termes of Luther coping with a nunne and your blasphemous scoffing ofhis lying with a nunne in the Lord I cōmit to the vengeance of him that is the instituter of holie matrimonie That many of the auncient fathers iudged it vnlawfull for vowed persons to marrie it is not denied of our parte but then it is to be vnderstood of them which maried not for necessitie but for wantones and for such as made vowes aduisedly not rashlie voluntarilie and not by compulsion For of them that could not conteine after they had vowed virginitie I haue shewed before the plaine testimonies of Saint Hierome and Epiphanius Now are we come to those nine articles of Doctrine with which you haue charged Luther how iustlie we shall see by by The first is that you affirmed Luther to teach that there is no sinne but incredulitie neither can a man damne him-selfe doe what mischeefe he can except he will refuse to beleeue To this Master Hanmer answereth that all sinnes proceade of the roote of incredulitie as al good workes from the roote of faith but this you will not vnderstand and bring in a contradiction of Master Charkes which doth pronounce that in wordes and matter you reporte an open vntruth And so you doe for any thing that you bring in your defense For Luther saieth not absolutely but in comparison that there is no sinne but vnbeleefe as our sauiour Christ sayth to the Pharisies if you were blinde you should
vbi de fructu suae conuersionis infidus est Christ deliuered the keies to the Church saith S. Augustine that whatsoeuer she loosed in earth should be loosed in heauen and what soeuer she bound in earth should be c. that is to saie that whosoeuer would not beleeue that sinnes should be forgiuen him in his Church they should not beforgiuen vnto him but whosoeuer did beleeue and being corrected did turne him-selfe awaie from them being placed in the bosome of the same Church should be healed by the same faith and correction For whosoeuer doth not beleeue that his sinnes maie be forgiuen vnto him is made worsse by dispairing as though nothing remained better for him then to beleue when he is vnfaithful vnbeleeuing of the fruite of his conuersion These wordes of Saint Augustine do shew that sinnes are forgiuen to the penitent and faithfull that beleeue the doctrine of repentance and forgiuenes of sinnes which is preached in the Church The place of Optatus vrging the vnitie of Peters chaire against the schismatikes that were deuided from the communion of the Catholike Church ascribeth no greater authoritie to Peters chaire in exercising the keyes or anie other power of the Priesthood then to all other chaires That Epiphanius allowethrepentance after baptisine against the Catharistes it prooueth no more an other sacrament of penance then that we do euen as he graunt that there is place of repentance before god reconciliation vnto the Church for such as do daily fall after baptisme But contrary wise it appeareth that Epiphanius alloweth but one sacrament of repentance which is baptisme Andyet saith he we take not awaie the mercie of God knowing the preaching of the trueth and the mercie of the Lord c the pardonable nature the vnstedfastnes of the soule the weaknes of the flesh the deepenes of the sense of manie men because no man is void of sinne and pure from filthines though his life be but one daie vpon the earth And perfect repentance in deede is in the lauer of baptisme but if a man fall the holie Church of god doth not loose him for it gran teth him a returne and after that repentance an other repentance The Greeke word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifying a sorowfullnes for that which is committed by which the partie maie be brought to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the perfect repentance that he spake of before that is recouer the grace of forgiuenes of sins confirmed vnto him in baptisme which is the onelie sacrament of repentance the fruite whereof endureth vnto our liues end to make vs partakers of the fruite of regeneration that is life euerlasting The examples that he bringeth of repentanee offered to Cain and graunted to Peter do Prooue that he speaketh not of any sacrament of rePentance but sheweth that God receaueth them that fall after baptisme vnto repentance according to the preaching of trueth and of the mercie of God I muse what you meane when you saie that Epiphanius termeth baptisme perfect repentance with Saint Paul to the Hebr. cap. 6. For the Apostle to the Hebrewes hath no such terme either in that chapter or in anie other place of that epistle except you dreamed of such a matter because he professeth to leaue the first principles of religion as repentance from dead workes c. which pertaineth to the doctrine of baptisme and Imposition of hands and to grow to perfection In the Catholike Church as Lactantius saith there is confession because there is faith there is also repentance which wholsomlie healeth the sinnes and wound to which the weakenes of the fleshis subiect by which it is prooued that there is remission of sinnes in the Church continuing vntill the comming of Christ to iudgement ALLEN But he that listeth to see in what office and by whome he holdeth this singular honour of remission of sinnes he shall finde not onelie the Apostles who were called by Christ but all other Bishops also that succeede them in the Church to be her ministers herein Whereof let him reade the 26. Homely of Saint Gregorie pertaining almost whollie to that purpose I will repeat a few wordes onelie out of it committing the rest to the diligence of the reader Libet intueri saith he illi discipuli ad tanta onera humilitatis vocati ad quantum culmen gloriae sint oeruecti Ecce non solùm de semetipsis securi fiunt sed etiam alienae obligationis relaxationis potestatem accipiunt principatumque superniiudicij sortiuntur vt vice Dei quibusdam peccata retineant quibusdam relaxent Ecce qui districtum iudicium Dei metuunt animarum iudices fiunt alios damnant velliberant qui semetipsos damnare metuebant Horum profectò nunc in Ecclesia Dei Episcopi locum tenent ligandi atque soluendi authoritatem sumunt grandis honor sed graue pondus est istud honoris It is my meaning now to beholde to what marueilous honour the Disciples of Christ be exalted which before were called in their base state to great burden and troubles For now they be not onelie in assurance of their owne state but they haue obtained power of binding and releasing other and the verie soueraigntie of heauenly iudgement that in Gods owne steade they may some mans sinnes release and other offencesreteine Loe those that once feared the straight sentence of Gods owne iudgement are made the iudges of other mens soules to condemne or deliuer where they list that before doubted of them-selues And now truelie in these mens roomes are the Bishops of Gods Church and receiue the authoritie of binding and loosing and their owne state ofregiment High surclie is their Chaire but greater is their charge S. Gregorie said so farre But Saint Augustine shall make vp this matter with words of such waight that I trust euerie man shall see the trueth and almost feele the grossenesse of falsehood thereby He writeth thus vpon this verse of the Psalme Eructauit which is the 44. in number with him Pro patribus tuis nati sunt tibi filij constitueseos Principes super omnem terram In place of thy parentes thou hast Children borne thee them thou maist make the Princes of the wholl earth The Apostles did beget thee they were sent them-selues they preached in their owne persons and finallie they were thy fathers But could they alwaies corporallie abide here And though one of them said I would gladlie be dissolued and be withChrist yet for your sake I counted it more necessarie to tarie in flesh Thus he said but how long could his life last he might not remaine til this daie much lesse for the time to come What then is the Church desoiate after the departure of her parents God forbid In steade of thy parentes thou hast sonnes saith the text what is that to saie Marie the Apostles sent by Christ are as fathers and for them God hath raised vp children or sonnes which be the holie Bishops of the world
of Saint Iames speaketh then you were when you wrot your defence of purgatorie for there you were not ashamed to affirme that Caluine did expound it for a medicinable salue or ointment to ease the sicke mans sore But now let vs see how you will prooue his interpretation to be a fond glosse First you aske whether the people then christianed were instructed or rather commaunded to call for the Apostles or others to heale thē miraculouslie of their diseases I answere they were admonished by the Apostles that they might vse the benefit of that speciall gift of healing and that is manifest by the wordes of Saint Iames. Secondlie you aske whether all Priests had the gift of working miracles in the primitiue Church I answere I cannot tell of euerie one but that in euerie Church some had the gift of healing it is most probable in the Apostles time And therefore Saint lames willeth not one Priest but all the Priests or Elders of the Church to be called for But against my first answer you obiect that by like reason they were charged to send for them to reuine the dead that to seeke after miracles were to tempt God I replie the gift of raising the dead was verie rare insomuch as we read but of two that were raised by the Apostles them selues Tabytha by Peter and Eutycus by Paul And Saint Iames willeth not the Apostles which were not in al places hand but the elders of the Church which were in euery Christian congregation to be sent for Neither is it a tempting of God to seeke after miracles of healing at their hands to whome God hath giuen that gift To your second obiection I answere that albeit euerie Priest had not that gift whereof as I cannot affirme so cannot you denie of certaintie yet it is certaine that in euerie congregation of the dispersed Iews to whome 〈◊〉 writeth there were some that had that gift as it is manifest by the promise that he maketh that the praier offaith shall giue health to the sicke man and the Lord shall raise him vp But howsoeuer it be if there were anie miracles of healing that had remission of sinnes ioyned to it or to the externall creature the Priests might by that office of that creature heale a man of his sinnes which they affirme to be blasphemie c. I answere Saint Iames his wordes are plaine from whence remission of sinnes commeth properlie The oile was a seale of assurance both of bodelie health and of remission of sinnes with are the cause often times that man is visited which sicknes and bodelie infirmite but not allwaies as our sauiour Christ sheweth of the blind man therefore he saith if he haue committed sinne it shal be forgiuen meaning if he had this bodely infirmitie laid vpon him for some greiuos sinne For otherwise there is no man but sinneth and whome God may iustly punish for his sinne although he deal more mercifully with his children who though they want not his fatherly chastisement yet he doth not alwaies laie vpon them the crosse of bodely affliction ALLEN In the sacrament of baptisme they will not stand with me openlie for they will seeme to acknowldge the forgiuenes of sinnes thereby and I thinke by the Ministerie of man to though in their priuat schooles yea and in their open blaspemoous bookes the whole packe of Protestantes and Zuinglians denie that sacrament also to remit sinnes both acknowledging that children may be saued and be receiued to heauen without it auouching that sinne remaineth still in the children after their Christendome though God will not impute the same vnto them for the hinderance of their saluation Which false Doctrine is the ground of their more subtill opinions touching onelie saith and imputed iustice and other their pelting paradoxes concerning mans iustification which I cannot now stand vpon Would God the ignorant sort of their followers could see through the dunghil of this confuse Doctrine For these haue euer besides the florish of their faith that they make abroad amongst fooles an other more improbable which they keepe for the strong ones at home that will no more be offended to heare the Turkish then the christian faith And so had the Epicure as Tullie teacheth For pleasure of the minde gathered by contentation and contemplation of heauenlie thinges was his chiefe God and extreame end of his endeuours abroade but his dearlinge◠at home had the pleasures of the bodelie lustes and wantonnesse for the end of all goodnes Well but I will reason with them vpon the ground of their outward profession that baptisme is a sacrament in which truelie sinnes be remitted by the ministerie of men and without all dishonour of God seeing it was Gods owne ordinance appointment But heare S. Ambrose againe I praie you encountering in this matter with our mens masters Cur baptisatis saith he per hominem peccata dimitti non licet in baptismo vtique remissio peccatorum omnium est Quid interest vtrum per poenitentiam an per lauacrum hoc ius sibi datum sacerdotes vendicent vnum in vtroque ministerium est Sed dices quia in lauacro operatur mysteriorum gratia quid in poenitentia non Dei nomen operatur Why do they baptize if man may not remit sinnes for surelie in Baptisme all sinnes be remitted and what difference I beseech you whether Priestes chalenge this gift to be theirs in baptisme or in pennance The ministerie of man is like in both But you will replie perchaunce that in baptisme the grace of the ministeries worketh And what worketh I praie you in penance Doth not Gods name bring all to passe there also Thus he But here good reader marke diligently in this doctoures words as also in other the like of all auncient Fathers that penance is not here taken for anie vertue either morall or theologicall which is in a priuat man when he amendeth or changeth his purpose or former euill life to the better whereof there was some shade amongst the heathen is now both commended in scripture and giuen man by Christes graces not onelie afore the remitting of the sacrament of baptisme if the party were in case of actuall deadly sinne but also goeth alwaie as a neccssary preparatiue before sacramentali confession and is called in our tongue properlie repentance this Doctor therefore speaketh not of this kinde of penitence but of a publike act of the Church touching the reconciliation or repayring of mans state defiled after his baptisme by greeuous crimes in which by Priestes iudgement the sinnes committed be either pardoned or punished And this must be called repentance onely or the amendement of life as Heretiques do tearme it to confound the Doctrine of Gods trueth Sacraments but it is an externall and visible act-on appointed by Christ in the 20. of Saint Iohn to reconcile sinners by that forme of absoluing which the Church vseth in the name and inuocation of God for
man that by nature is a like sinner and by vse of hearing manie faultes can not much maruell at oures and by office there is moste secret and carefull ouer vs what should we talke of other impediments where this comfortable motion is so great What comforte can be more then to haue such a friende who for that I ioyne with him yea euen mine owne soule to his after the dearest manner and moste secret sorte must needes be to me a full staie of conscience a witnesse of my sorowfull heart an intercessour for my sinnes a suretie before God for my amending a minister in my reconciliation and one that vnder Christ as Saint Clement also saith shall both beare my sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of me to saluation in which case me thinke surelie man is after a sorte set in maruelous quietnes and almost discharged euen of himselfe and his owne custodie whiles he giueth ouer his owne aduise and iudgement and whollie hangeth in earth vpon him whome God hath appointed to be his pastour and gouernour of his soule Therefore good reader call vpon Christ for encrease of faith and beleeue onelie this ordinance of God was of infinite wisedome and high prouidence prouided for thy sake and it can not be burdenous vnto thee Christ shal giue thee courage and heart to withstand the contrary temptations and to serue him though thou forsake thy selfe To vs therefore confusion of face for our sinnefull life and to him honour and glorie euerlasting Amen FVLKE You doe well to confesse that shame is but small ales where a man is brought into a fooles paradise of so easie remission of his sinnes for so light a confession before one man as sinfull and perhaps more sinfull then he and bounde as you saie by office to secrecie But the comforte you speake of is vaine and miserable though all confessors were learned and able to giue good counsel as not one among an hundereth of your hedge Priests fryers are For how can he be a suretie before God for an other mans amending when he cannot be surety for his owne reformation He may well beare other mens sinnes vpon himselfe and take charge of other mens saluation to his owne damnation when he preacheth not Christ the onely propitiation for our sinnes but will so be a minister of reconciliation that he will robbe Christ of his glorie and the people of their saluation In which case in deede you set men in a maruelous and mischeuous securitie and almoste discharge them euen of themselues as youre owne wordes are and of their owne custodie while you make them giue ouer their owne aduise and iudgement and wholly to hang in earth vpon you not vpon Christ whome God hath appointed to be the Pastour and gouernour of their soules euen ypon earth though he be in heauen and they vpon the earth Therefore good reader marke how blaspemoussie these Popish dogges would haue thee to hang thy selfe whollie vpon them in earth as the onelie Pastours and gouernours of their soules by which they exclude Christ altogether from any feeding or gouerning of our soules vpon earth and debar all Christians not onelie from depending whollie vpon Christ as they might and doe but from hanging any thing at all vpon him in earth seeing they will haue men to hang wholly vpon their cōfessor on earth as though god had made any such pastors gouernours of mens soules as should put Christ out of office challenge the whole trust of mens saluation vnto themselues These be the right lims of Antichrist that chalenge the chiefe honour of God vnto themselues which is faith and hope of saluation to be reposed on them for what other thing is it that a man should quiet him selfe by be discharged of himselfe his owne custodie and wholy hang vpon his gostlie Father but to beleeue in him to put his whole faith hope confidence of saluation onelie vpon him while he is vpon earth And for this matter he is content to accept onelie faith because he hath no other argument to perswade thee but remember that faith commeth by hearing of the worde of God which abhorreth and accurseth al confidence reposed in man And therfore confusion of face be to al blasphemous papists not onelie for their sinnefull life but also for their abhominable heresies and to god be al glorie honour and dominion in Christ Iesus our Lord for euer euer Amen THE SECOND PARTE OF THE TREATISE CONCERning the Popes pardons The author by iust causes was mooued to beleeue the trueth of this doctrine of Pardons before he knew the meaning of them and afterward found them of greater importance then he toke them before to be THE FIRST CHAP. ALLEN OF the high power of remission and pardoning of sinnes giuen by Christ to his onelie spouse the Church in the Church in the persons of her holy Bishops and priests as a thing annexed to the wholl order and to be exercised in the sacrament of penance vpon all men that be of their seuerall iurisdictions and humblie shall submit themselues by confession of their faultes to their iudgements I haue alreadie spoken so much as may suffice for the satisfying of the sober and iust reproofe of the contentious And now because as well the course of my former matter as the speciall neede of these daies driueth me thereunto I will make further search and triall of the right of that challenge which as well the high priest as other principall Pastours and Bishops make by the force of their Prelacie and keye of iurisdiction ouer and aboue the power of orders touching Pardons and Indulgences Whereof whiles I doe intreate the more attention and heede I require of thee gentle reader because here all the lamentable tragedie and toile of this time first did begin and here haue al those that perished in the late contradiction of Core principallie fallen And in no article of Christian faith euer more offence hath bin receiued of all sortes almoste euen of the wise then in this one of the Popes pardons FVLKE WHen you haue heard what were these iust causes which he pretendeth you shall plainlie see that the authors faith was not grounded vpon Gods word but vpon humane presumption and therefore deserueth to be called rather a fansie then a faith Likewise when you shall haue read ouer the whol treatise to the ende you shall perceiue though you read no confutation that he hath not any warrant either out of the holie scriptures or out of the auncient fathers for any Popes pardons such as he should take vpon him to defende For that the Church of God and pastours therof haue power to release them that are bounde and vpon perswasion of their repentance to remit or pardon some part of the triall appointed for them it is no question betweene vs but of the popes pardons graunted vnder his Leaden Bulls for remission of sinnes but a poena culpa
profitable other whiles to be deceites but yet inuented for holie purposes now by avouching they could not stand with Gods iustice if they shoulde remitte anie part of the appointed paine for sinnes and else when that there was no paine for remitted sinnes at all whereupon the indulgences should not be needfull but vaine and friuolous with such other inconstant stammering as lightlie is common to them that seeke to vp hold falshood against their owne skill and consciences But his followers as well of the Protestants as Zuinglians and Caluinistes to make the waie of wickednes more easie and plaine haue boldlie denied all penance and temporall paine for sinne remitted whether it be by Christs or the Churches enioyning haue taken awaie Purgatorie haue bereued Priesthood of all power and the Church of all her treasure of Christes copious and abundant redemption Whereupon I cannot otherwise iudge but that doctrine which else can not be refelled but by the waste of so manie vndoubted articles should stande exceeding fast and be grounded moste surelie vpon all these foresaide truthes without the destruction whereof it can not be of anie force ouerturned FVLKE As no man would thinke any such matter if you had not put it in their heades so no wise men can thinke otherwise of Pardons then he did before you tooke in hande their defence sauing that all reasonable men may thinke them so much the worsse because you are able to defend them no better And if all the principles of popery as you saie be contained in the matter of pardons as in a summe or abridgment the children of God maie behold the prouidence of god more clearelie in setting Luther first against them at such time as he knewe no such matter neither had anie purpose but to disswade the moste grosse abuses and palpable impostures which were that time mantained about them alowing the pardons still as good and lawful But for the mantainers of this conclusion you say he and his haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne c. Naie they haue established and restored the true vse of repentance and shewed that the death of Christ is the onelie satisfaction for sinnes the discipline of the Church from a batbarous antichristian tyrannie they haue reduced within the limmites of the scriptures and the practize of the primatiue and pureit age of the Church the chastising that God vseth for correction of his children they haue taught out of the scriptures how it is to be taken patientlie as an admonition for amendement not an amends for our misdoing which sauoreth as much of pride as their doctrine doth of humility The secrets of the next world not reueiled in the scriptures they leaue vntil the time of the general reuelation of al secrets and therfore they presume not to allow purgatorie paines for the clensing of those sinnes which the scripture teacheth to be purged by the bloode of Christ in whome all our sinnes are thorowlie punished to the full satisfaction of the iustice and wisedome of God They haue left to the saints al their merits which is nothing els but the grace of God sufficient for their saluation not placing the workes of saints in the place of Christes passion which is onelie of it selfe soueraigne and satisfactorie for all men The mysticall bodie of Christ and the holie cōmunion of saints they beleeue to receiue all vertue and power of life from Christ the head and euery member to exercise that office which by his grace is assigned vnto it therefore they haue done no iniurie to Christ his Church his saints sacraments or his holy Religion but their dutie in purging the doctrine ofChrist his Church his saints sacraments and Religion from error falsehood heresie and blasphemie You tell the reader that you doe not riot in wordes to ouerrunne your aduersarie but if he be wise he will remēber that a crafty orator doth sonest deceiue when he pretendeth moste plainenes What Luther thought and taught at the first of pardons his writings are extant in print to declare in which he confesseth that he did fight in the darke yet it pleased God by the importunitie of his aduersaries to sturre him vp to search the trueth out of the holie scriptures Neither hath Zuinglius or Caluine or anie of the Protestants taught otherwise of repentance satisfaction power of priesthood or the tresure of the Church then Luther did after God had reueiled the trueth vnto him and he openlie preached the same Seeing therefore the matter of pardons cannot stand but vpon the blasphemous heresies which the popish antichristian Church doth teach against the glorie of the onelie redemption of Iesus Christ our onelie and whole sauiour and reedemer it must needs be one of those pestilent poisons which Sathan after his loosing out of the bottomeles pit hath powred forth into the world the defacing of the glorie of Christ and the destruction of manie ignorant soules ALLEN Therefore least any man by making smaller accompt of so litle a braunch of the Churches faith then he should do fall further vnto the mistrusting of other many of knowen importance I thought it good to debate the question of Indulgences which be now commonly called the Popes Pardons though not onely he but also other Prelates of Christendome haue their seuerall right eche one according to the measure of the Churches graunt and his iurisdiction therein In which matter because most men of smaler trauail haue erred rather by misconstruing the case mistaking the state of the cause then for any lacke of sufficient proofe of the matter after it were wel vnderstanded I will studie first clearly to open the meaning of that whereon we stande and then to go through the whole question with as much light and breuitie as I can tempering my selfe as much as I maie from all such 〈◊〉 as the depth of so grounded a conclusion and the learned disputation of Schoolmen might driue me vnto Wherein I am content rather to followe the desire and contentation of the reader then to satisfie my owne appetite which I feele in my selfe to be somewhat more greedie of matter sometimes then the common people whome I studie moste to helpe can well beare and yet if they thinke it anie vantage to knowe trueth and the necessarie Doctrine of their faith they must learne to abide the orderlie methode and compasse of the cause and further I shall not charge them FVLKE You come to late after the vanitie treacherie and blasphemie of pardons hath beene so long set abroad and knowen to the world and bringing no better stuffe then you do to suppose that you shal be able to restore pardons into the auncient credit they had within these foure score yeares euen with the simplest papist in Europe You would make the matter more plausible by communicating the right of pardons to all prelates of christendome as wel as to the Pope whereas indeed your popish Church keeping no proportion aloweth none
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe