meaneth of Customs and Ceremonies and not of Articles of Belief Which no Council can appoint but only declare and expound as before we have shewed 12. This Position then of St. Augustin is most true and consonant to the Doctrin of all other Fathers in that behalf that when any thing is found generally received in the Church and no Author Institutor or Beginning can be found thereof this without all doubt cometh down from the Apostles And of this position may be alledged two infallible grounds The one of Faith the other of evident Reasons For in Faith who can think so basely of Christs Power or Will in performing his Promises made unto his Church to conserve her in all Truth unto the Worlds end as that he should permit her notwithstanding to admit or teach generally any one false Article of Doctrin and much less so many as these men object against us For whereas he promised his Holy Spirit to be with her unto the Worlds end and that she should be the Pillar and Firmament of Truth to direct others and finally that hell gates should never prevail against her How should all this be performed if she fell into those Errors of which Protestants accuse her or what greater Victory could the gates of Hell have against her than that from an Apostolical Church of whom Christ spake she should become an Apostatical Church as these Men do call her which is the greatest Blasphemy against Christ and his Divinity that possibly can be imagined seeing it doth evacuate his whole Incarnation Life Death Doctrin Resurrection and other Benefits of his coming which were all imployed to this end to make unto himself a Church and Kingdom in this world that should direct Men in all Truth to their Salvation And this being taken away and the other granted that the Church her self may fall into Error and false Doctrin then is there no certainty in any thing And consequently it cannot be that any erroneous Doctrin should be taught or received generally by the Church And this is the first ground of St Augustin's Assertion 13. But besides this there is another founded in Reason and Experience which cannot be denied And for that it is a consideration of great Importance and may serve the Reader to many purposes of moment for discerning of Doubts and Controversies I shall desire him to be attent in perusing the same We do find by Experience and that not only in Ecclesiastical but Temporal Affairs also That when Orders Laws and Customs are once settled in any Common-wealth it is hard to alter or take them away or to bring in things opposite or different to them without some Resistance Dispute Contradiction or at least some Memory thereof how why and by whom it was done As for Example if a Man would go about to bring in any Innovation in the particular Laws of London and much more in the general Laws of all the Land no doubt but he should find some Resistance therein some that would dispute about the matter alledging Reasons to the contrary others would resist and oppose themselves and when all did fail at leastwise some Record Story or Memory would be left of this Change. 14. But much more if this matter did concern Religion which is most esteemed above other Points As for Example if a Man would begin to teach any Points of Doctrin at this Day in England contrary or different from that which is there received and established by public Authority he would presently be noted and contradicted by some no doubt as we see the Puritans Brownists Family of Love and other such newer Teachers have been and the History thereof is notorious and will remain to Posterity 15. And this is the very reason also why all Heretics and Heresies from the beginning did no sooner peep up in the visible Catholic Church but that they were noted impugned confuted and finally cast out from that body to the Devils dung-hill And the Records thereof do remain who were the Authors and Beginners who the Favourers and setters forward at what time upon what occasion under what Popes and Kings and other such-like Circumstances And this will endure to the end of the World. 16. This then being so we now come to the state of our Question and to joyn with the Protestants upon this Issue That seeing the Doctrins before mentioned of the Popes Authority Sacrifice of the Mass Transubstantiation Vse of Images and the like were found to be generally received and believed in the Visible and Universal Catholic Church of Christendom when Martin Luther first began to break from the same yea and many Ages before by their own confession they must shew us when the said Doctrins were brought in afterwards to the Church not being there nor believed therein before to wit by what Man or Men with what Authority Constraint or Persuasion with what repugnance of them that misliked the same and other like Circumstances before mentioned which if they be not able to do most certain it is that whatsoever they prattle against these Doctrins saying they were not in Eleutherius's time it is nothing but Cavils and Heretical Shifts 17. And now that they cannot shew any such particularities for the entrance or admittance of these Doctrins into the Church is most evident For whatsoever time they assign for their beginning we can still shew that before that time they were in use if they mean of the Things themselves and not only of Words or Phrases As for example when they object That in the Council of Lateran under Pope Innocentius III. in the year of Christ 1215. the word Transubstantiation was first used we answer That albeit that word was then added for better explication of the matter as these words Homousion Consubstantial Trinity and the like were by the first General Council of Nice yet the substance of the Article was held before from the beginning under other equivalent words of Change and Immutation of Natures Transformation of Elements and the like As for Example that of St. Ambrose speaking of the words of Christ in the Consecration Non valebit sermo Christi ut species mutet elementorum Shall not the words of Christ be of power to change the Natures of Elements And again Sermo Christi qui potuit de nihilo facere quod non erat non potest ea quae sunt in id mutare quod non erant The Speech of Christ that was able to create of nothing that which was not before shall it not be able to change things that are already into that which they were not before He meaneth the Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Christ as himself doth expound 18. So as here we see the change of the Natures of Elements and of the Substance of one Body into another averred by St. Ambrose long time before the Council of Lateran which is the same that we mean by Transubstantiation And
brag of the obscurity and contemptibility of their Church And so again whereas we hold and highly esteem that our Church hath all truth of Christ's Doctrin and Religion in it Fox writeth of his Church as before we have recorded That by God's mighty Providence there hath always been kept in her some sparks of Christ's true Doctrin and Religion 15. Again whereas we glory that in our Church there is power to absolve from sins security from error and the like Fox denieth these privileges to be in his Church objecting unto us for an error against the first in a certain Treatise of his before his Acts and Monuments That we in our Church have Confession and Absolution at the Priests hands c. And against the second he bringeth in a large Conference of Ridley and Latimer agreeing together that the greater part of the Universal Catholic Church may err but yet fearfully as you shall see more largely in the Third Part of this Treatise when we shall come to treat of these Foxian Saints and their Festival Days Acts and Monuments The same Patriarchs also do censure S. Augustin's Speech before by me alleged for an excessive vehemency for so are their words where he saith That he would not believe the Gospel if the Authority of the Catholic Church did not move him thereunto signifying thereby as before hath been noted that he could not know Scriptures to be Scriptures nor the Gospel to be Gospel neither their sense and meaning to be such as they were taken for but by the Authority of the Universal Catholic Church that had conserved them from time to time and delivered them to him and to the rest of the World for such to be believed 16. Wherefore to conclude this matter seeing that John Fox doth allow so well this Doctrin of his Patriarchs Ridley and Latimer and thereby doth take from the true Church and consequently in his meaning from his own all this excellent Authority which S. Augustin and other Fathers do ascribe to the Catholic Church to wit the Sovereignty of approving or rejecting true or false Scriptures of discerning between Books and Books and judging of their true interpretations and seeing further he taketh away from his Church both Confession and Absolution of sins and all efficacy of Sacraments leaving them only to bare Signs that do signifie and not work seeing he taketh away from her all infallibility of Doctrin confessing that she may err and contenteth himself that she retain ever some sparkles only of true Doctrin and Religion as before hath been shewed out of his own words and considering moreover that he maketh her so poor a thing as now you have seen and furnisheth her with such rags to wit with such variety of Sectaries as is ridiculous to name they disagreeing among themselves and the one most opposite to the other in Doctrin and Belief she being such a Church I say so poor and miserable so obscure and ragged so doubtful and uncertain no marvail tho' they make little account of her or give small credit unto her which in very deed is no greater than is given to the worst man or most dishonest woman living which is to believe her so far as she can prove by others what she saith to be true to wit by Scriptures without which witness none of her own children or houshold will credit or believe her which is a remarkable Point for that with the same condition they will believe the Devil himself and must do if he allege Scriptures in the true sense and meaning 17. And this is the estimation which Protestants do hold of their new Church Now let us pass to speak a word only about the second Point which concerneth the assigning out or description of this Church Clear it is and cannot be denied that Catholics do assign such a Church as may be seen and known by all men begun visibly by Christ himself in Jury when he gathered his Apostles and Disciples together and continued afterward with infinite increase of Nations and People Countries and Kingdoms that in tract of time adjoyned themselves thereunto and that this most manifest notorious and known Church hath endured ever since under the name of the Christian Catholic Church for the space of sixteen hundred years as we have shewed before both largely and particularly in the former Treatise which is plain dealing clear and manifest whereas on the other side the Protestants of our days following herein the steps of old Heretics their Ancestors do seek to assign such a Church as no man can tell where to find it for that it is rather imaginary mathematical or metaphysical than sensible to man's eyes consisting as they teach of just and predestinate men only whom where or how to find you see how uncertain and difficult a thing it is in this mortal life 18. Wherefore as the ancient Fathers condemned wholly the Heretics of their times for this fond and pernicious device and wrote eagerly against the same as S. Cyprian against the Novatians S. Epiphanius and S. Augustin against the Donatists and Pelagians for that under this cover and colour they would make themselves to be the only true Church to wit every Sect their own Sectaries and Congregation saying that they only are predestinate just holy and God's chosen people and consequently also his only true Church so do we at this day stand in the very same controversie with Protestants that seek the same evasion and refuge 19. And he that hath but so much leisure as to read over the Conference of the Third day had between S. Augustin and other Catholic Bishops on the one side and the Bishops of the Donatists on the other side at Carthage by the Emperor's persmission and appointment even upon this very Question of assigning the Church he shall see the matter most clearly handled and that the Catholics of this time do urge nothing in this Point but that S. Augustin and his fellow Catholic Bishops did urge in that Conference against the Donatists and that the Protestants of our time do take no other course of shifting and defending themselves therein than the Donatists did in those days for that after infinite delays and tergiversations used before they could be brought to this Conference which S. Augustin setteth down in the collation of the first and second day when at length in the third days meeting they came to joyn upon the Controversie in hand they began first about the word Catholic it self which the Catholics urg'd against the Donatists as we do now against the Sectaries of this Age and the Donatists sought to avoid the same by the very same sleights which ours do as appeareth by S. Augustin's words 20. Donatistae saith S. August responderunt Catholicum nomen non ex universitate gentium sed ex plenitudine Sacramentorum institutum petiverunt ut pro barent Catholici c. The Donatists did
missus est Augustinus à beato Gregorio c. In the mean space was sent into Britanny Augustin by Blessed Gregory to preach to English-men the Word of God who were yet blind in Pagan Superstition c. Though among the Britans that Christianity was yet in force which being received from the time of Eleutherius the Pope had never failed until that day c. Among whom there was an Abbot of Bangor named Dinoot that had above 2000 Monks under his charge who answered to Augustin when he requir'd Subjection of the British Bishops and that they would joyn with him to convert the English Nation That the Britans owed no Subjection unto him nor would bestow the labour of Preaching upon their Enemies seeing the Britans had an Archbishop of their own and that the Saxons took from them their Country for which cause they hated them extremely nor did not esteem their Religion nor would communicate with them more than with Dogs 14. Lo here all that is to be found in Geffry of Monmouth to this purpose which is nothing else as you see but a passionate and choleric Answer of the Britans as of men afflicted and exasperated Here is no one word of their not acknowledging the Popes Supremacy as the Magdeburgians write but only that they acknowledged not the Superiority of Augustin over the Britans seeing he was only sent to the English and that the Authority of their own Archbishop was not taken away by his coming for any thing they yet knew but remained as before Which question of Jurisdiction between two Archbishops falleth out daily even where the Pope's Authority is acknowledged and so we see that it is a manifest Lie which the Magdeburgians affirm so resolutely That the Britans would not acknowledge any Primacy of the Bishop of Rome over them For they speak as you see of Augustin's Authority and not of the Bishop of Rome from whom we read not that he had yet shewed to them any Authority to place him over their Archbishop and consequently it is a vain and malicious Inference which the Magdeburgians here do make out of this Answer of the Britans if it had been true that forasmuch as they admitted not St. Augustin's Authority they acknowledged not the Primacy of Rome and that this again was a clear sign that Religion was not planted in Britanny by the Romans 15. For how clear is this I pray you or how hangeth this together might not this Error of not acknowledging the Power of the Roman See if it had been among them have crept in after the first planting of Christian Faith Will these Germans or Sir Francis or Fox their Scholars deny that Ravennae in Italy for Example was converted by St. Apollinaris sent thither from St. Peter for that afterwards the Bishops of that place for many years waxing proud and presumptuous upon the presence and Court of the Exarchs and Vice-Roys of the Emperours residing amongst them did refuse to yield to the Bishops of Rome Or for that England at this day by Error of Protestant Religion refuseth to acknowledge any Subjection in Spiritual Affairs to Rome will our men deny that the English Nation was ever converted to Christian Faith from Rome Who seeth not the impertinency of this kind of Argument And yet with such-like kind of Arguments and Inferences these absurd People do deceive the World. 16. But the last point of these Germans Assertion about Pope Innocentius I. is a most egregious Impudency to say of so holy a Father so highly commended by St. Augustin and other Fathers that lived with him and after him That he spake of Vain-glory and desire of Temporal Power when he wrote above 1200 years agone That all the West-Churches and the British amongst the rest were founded by St. Peter or his Disciples and Successors And let any indifferent or prudent Reader in the World consider of what weight these words of the Germans may be when having said That albeit Innocentius I. wrote so yet we judge that to have been spoken of Vain-glory c. A proud Censure of so great a man by three or four poor Companions that wrote Books for their Bread and begg'd the same commonly of every Prince to whom they dedicated their several Centuries That so contemptible People I say should presume to touch the Honor and Truth of so great and worthy a Saint and Father as was holy Innocentius so called commonly by St. Augustin St Hierom St. Basil Orosius and others and whom all the rest of the World together with these men admired and respected in his Life for such Sancti Innocentii saith St. Hierom to the Virgin Demetriades qui Apostolicae Cathedrae beat ae memoriae Anastasii successor filius est tene as fidem nec pergrinam quamvis prudens callidáque videaris doctrinam recipias Hold the Faith of holy Innocentius which is the Successor and Son in the Seat of St. Peter's Chair of Anastasius of blessed Memory that went before him and do not admit any new or foreign Doctrin though thou maist seem perhaps wise and subtle to thy self 17. Thus wrote St. Hierom which is another manner of Judgment of Innocentius both for his Holiness of Life and Authority of Place to direct men in Religion than the Magdeburgians give who would make him Vain-glorious But thus they use all ancient Fathers that are against them And so much for this Chapter CHAP. III. The former Controversie is more particularly handled how the Grecian Custom of celebrating Easter-day after the Fashion of the Jews came first into the British and Scottish Church and how untruly and wickedly John Fox and John Bale do behave themselves about this matter BUT now let us return if you please to speak a word or two more of the entrance of the foresaid Custom of celebrating Easter with the Jews into Britanny to wit how and about what time or upon what occasion it is probable that it entred Wherein first it seemeth most certain that it could not be brought in by the first Preachers of Christian Religion to John Fox and Sir Francis and the Magdeburgians would have men believe And this is proved as well by the Reasons and Authorities alleged before to shew that the first Preachers in Britanny either came from Rome or preached Roman Doctrin as also by the Reasons following First for that if Damianus and other Preachers sent into Britanny by Pope Reason I Eleutherius to instruct King Lucius and the rest in Christian Faith about the year 180 had found any such Custom there contrary to the Roman Use from whence they were sent they would have removed the same or at least wise have made some mention thereof forsomuch as at that time the contrary Custom of celebrating Easter upon the Sunday was public in the Use of the Roman Church and Pope Pius I. had made a Decree for confirming the same against the Asian Use about 40 years
in the second Age after Christ there was not the Faith in Rome that now is For that there was no mention or knowledge then either of any universal Authority of the Church or Bishop of Rome or of the name or use of Masses or Sacrifice propitiatory or of Transubstantiation or of Images used in Churches and the like 5. To which vain Arguments of both these poor Men I might answer sufficiently by telling them if they will learn that albeit it were true in some sence that these Doctrins which here they alledge and some other in Controversie between us were not found in the Second Age when Pope Eleutherius lived so expresly set forth as in other Ages afterward when better Occasion was offered and the Times did more permit the same yet is this no good Argument to prove that they were not believed then also in the Catholic Church For if this Consequence should be admitted then as well might it be admitted also against many other principal Points and Articles of our Faith which are acknowledged and believed by Protestants also at this day tho not expresly handled discussed or determined in those first two hundred Years after Christ as for Example the Name and Doctrin of the Blessed Trinity the two distinct Natures and one Person in Christ his two distinct wills the Virginity of our Blessed Lady both before and after her Child-birth the Proceeding of the Holy Ghost as well from the Son as from the Father c. 6. All which Points and some others are not found to be handled so clearly and distinctly by Authors of the first two hundred Years as afterward partly for that they were occupied in other matters against Gentiles and Hereticks that touched not these Points and partly for that General Councils could not yet be gathered together to discuss and declare them distinctly tho no good Christians will or may doubt but that they were believed in the Church before from Christ downward and that the General Councils that determined them afterward for Articles of true Belief against Heretics that had called them in question did not so determine them as if they had made them Articles which were not before for this the Church could not do as is held by all Catholics but only that they being Articles of True and Catholic Belief before the Church did now declare them to be such Wherefore this being so I might answer and I see not how they could reply that John Fox and his Scholar may as well deny and call in question all or any of these foresaid Articles as the other which they recite For that they were as little or perhaps less specified in the first two hundred Years than these which they object 7. But I will deal more liberally with our Minister and Knight and will seek to satisfie them with Reason who do brabble and argue against us without Reason I shall endeavour to do the same by two ways hoping to make their Folly appear to every indifferent Man by them both The first shall be via negativa the negative way by putting them to some proof And the second shall be affirmative shewing them what Proofs may be brought for our side Nothing doubting but that each shall be sufficient to satisfie the equal Reader Let the first kind of Argument then by the way of negative be this 8. We deny that the Faith now held in Rome and namely the Articles here mentioned of the Pope Mass Transubstantiation and use of Images were not believed in Pope Eleutherius's days as now for the substance of the Doctrin And let them prove it if they can and if they say that it is hard to prove a negative we are content that they prove only an affirmative whereby the said negative may be inferred to wit that any one of these Doctrins did begin to enter into the Church after Eleutherius And to this Proof they are bound in all equity and reason as we shall shew by our sequent Discourse For if it be true that the Articles and Points of Doctrin here mentioned by Fox and Sir Francis wherein they differ from us be indeed not things heard of or believed at Rome in the time of Pope Eleutherius which yet they denie not but that in other Ages after they were generally received then followeth it that Fox and his Fellows must shew the Time Place Men and Occasion of their beginning to wit when where and by what Men and upon what Causes and with what Authority or Induction or Violence or by what Deceit or with what Contradiction of others these Doctrins entred first and were continued in the Church All which Points we can shew of every other Error or Heresie that hath risen and was held for such from Christ's Time to ours 9. And if either Fox or his Cub or any of that Kennel can or will shew this and joyn issue with us upon this one Point we do accept thereof and the matter may be quickly dispatch'd But if this cannot be done then must we follow the Rule of St. Augustin held by him for infallible in such Affairs to wit That when any Doctrin is found generally received in the known visible Churh at any Time or in any Age whereof there is no certain Author Time or Beginning found then is it sure that all such Doctrin hath come down from Christ and his Apostles 10. This doth that holy Doctor and great Pillar of Gods Church Saint Augustin affirm and reiterate in every place of his Works against Heretics of his Time which argued as our Men do by denying only and putting Catholics to Proof As for Example against the Donatists denying the custom of baptizing Infants for that it was not in Scripture nor recorded by Fathers of the first Ages Saint Augustin answereth thus Illa consuetudo quam tunc homines sursum versum aspicientes non videbant à posterioribus institutam rectè ab Apostolis tradita creditur That Custom of Baptizing Infants which Men before us in the Church looking upward to Antiquity did not find to have been ordained by them that came after the first Ages is rightly believed to have been delivered by the Apostles 11. And again in another place speaking of Ecclesiastical Customs he saith Quod universa tenet Ecclesia nec Conciliis institutum sed semper retentum est non nisi anthoritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur That which the universal Church doth hold and was not instituted by any Council but hath been still retained in the Church this we may most justly believe to have come from no other Authority than from the Apostles And the like Speeches unto this hath St. Augustin in divers other places both of this Book against the Donatists as l. 2. c. 7. and l. 5. c. 23. as also lib. de Vnitat Ecclesiae c. 19. Epistola 118 c. And as for that he speaketh of Institution by Councils he
every where there is mention of all these Doctrins as afterward in our second Argument we shall shew out of the Protestants themselves and namely the Magdeburgians that profess to note all 24. Now then I ask our Adversaries touching this creeping Instance how could these Doctrins so creep into the Catholic Visible Church in this fourth Age for example and be received so generally over all Nations Countreys and Kingdoms by these principal Lights Captains Watchmen and Guiders of the same as no Note Detection Resistance or Memory should be left of any Doubt Dispute or Opposition made against them Is this likely Is this possible Read all the Fathers Works over and find if you can but one place wherein one Father did ever hitherto note another for holding Purgatory Praying to Saints believing the Real Presence or the like as they did Cyprian tho' otherwise a most Learned and Holy Man for teaching Re-baptization of Heretics and some other Fathers for other particular Opinions different from the Catholic Doctrin of that Age. Whereof we may infer That they would have done the like also in these other points if they had been held for new or erroneous in those days And hereof also may be inferred another Sequel or Observation of very great moment against our Heretics That when soever any Doctrin is found in any of the ancient Fathers which is not contradicted nor noted by any of the rest as singular that Doctrin is to be presumed to be no particular Opinion of his but rather the general of all the Church in his days for that otherwise it would most certainly have been noted and impugned by others Whereby it followeth that one Doctor 's Opinion or Saying in matters of Controversie not contradicted or noted by others may sometimes give a sufficient Testimony of the whole Churches Sentence and Doctrin in those days which is a point very greatly to be considered 25. But yet further to all this may be added another Consideration of no small weight which is the difficulty of bringing in certain Doctrins if any man would have attempted it as for Example the Doctrin of Seven Sacraments If there had been but Two only before in the Apostles time it had been an extreme great Novelty to have added Five more which never would have been admitted without much strife and resistance seeing all Catholics do hold that Christ only could institute Sacraments for that He only could assure the Promise of Grace made thereunto as excellently doth declare the Council of Trent and long before that again the Master of Sentences and St. Thomas in the name of all Catholics did leave that Doctrin registred and there can be no doubt thereof 26. Wherefore this Truth being admitted That the whole Church hath no Authority to institute any Sacrament or to alter any thing about the substantial parts thereof to wit the Matter Form or Number as the same Council of Trent in another place declareth how was it possible that five whole Sacraments should be added or brought into Catholic Doctrin and received and believed throughout Christendom without any resistance or opposition at all if there had been but two only instituted by Christ and exercised by the Apostles in the first Age How I say could five more be brought in afterward By whom at what time in what Countrey c. For if any one had begun to do it others would have resisted it being a matter of so high moment And if one Countrey Province or Church had admitted them another would have refused or at leastwise there would have been some Doubt or Disputation and some general Meeting and Synod or Council gathered about that matter and some parts would have admitted one Number and some another as we see that the Sectaries of our time have done since the matter hath been called in question by them some allowing five some four some three some two But no memory of any of these differences being to be found among Catholics most certain it is that this Number came down from Christ and his Apostles themselves 27. The like or greater difficulty would also have been about the use of Sacramental Confession if it had not been appointed by Christ and put in ure presently and so continued from time to time For that it being a thing in it self most repugnant to man's sensual Nature to be bound to open his particular sins to another with that Humility and Subjection which Catholic Doctrin doth prescribe in the use of that Sacrament clear it is that if it had not been in ure even from the Apostles time and that as a matter of absolute necessity it could never have been received afterward nor yet brought in by any Human Power Art or Device For who I pray you should or could bring in such a thing of so great repugnance and difficulty upon the whole Christian Church Will they say any Pope Let them name either Him or Them together with the Time and other Particularities which they never will be able to do 28. Besides this I ask them further What Pope would ever have attempted this if it had not been by Obligation before him seeing that Popes themselves the more Great and Eminent they be above others the more natural repugnance must they needs find in themselves to go and kneel down at the feet of an inferior Priest and confess unto him their most secret sins And the like may be said of Temporal Princes and Emperours who if any Pope or Power Ecclesiastical would have laid such a burthen upon them not used nor of obligation before how would they have yielded unto it which of them would not have answered that seeing their Fathers and Ancestors were saved without this subjection and irksom obligation of revealing their particular sins they would hope to be so also And finally some great Difficulty Doubt or Contention would have been about this matter before it could have been so brought in and established all over the Christian World as we see by experience it was and at leastwise some memory would have remained thereof in Histories which we find not and consequently we may conclude that there was never any such thing And this is sufficient for our first Argument Now let us pass to the second CHAP. VI. It is proved by the second kind of Affirmative or Positive Arguments That the Points of Catholic Doctrin before denied by Fox and Sir Francis were in use in Pope Eleutherius his Time and in other Ages immediately following and this by Testimony of Protestant Writers themselves ALbeit the Reasons and Considerations before alledged whereby our Adversaries are willed to shew the beginning of such Articles and Points of our Catholic Doctrin as they deny to have come down from the Apostles Time were sufficient to put them to silence being not able to perform any part thereof and consequently also may open the eyes of any studious Reader to see
each Sect pretended Scriptures for themselves yet the vertue and substance of Scriptures consisting in their true meaning and interpretation thereof it was intolerable pride and insolency in them to arrogate to themselves the said true Interpretation and Exposition before the whole Church of God that went before them And hereof ensued the justness of their punishment which in Catholics can have no place as before hath been shewed Yet one Example of each sort of these men shall we here alledge thereby better to declare the Case 21. King Henry during his Reign caused sundry sorts of men to be put to death about matter of Religion as is notorious and first certain Anabaptists and new Arians namely in the 27th and 30th years of his Reign In the former of these two Condemnations were nineteen Men and six Women as Stow and others do relate and in the second were three Men and one Woman condemned These Anabaptists denied amongst other points that Children ought to be baptized before they come to years of discretion and can actually believe for defence of which Doctrin they stood resolutely upon many clear places of Scripture as to them then seemed to wit Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit salvus erit Marc. 16. He that shall believe and be baptized shall be saved Lo say they it is necessary to believe as well as to be baptized which Infants being not able to do ought not to receive Baptism in their Infancy or if they do they must be rebaptized again when they come to years of discretion Thus reasoned they And besides this Text they and their chief Masters do alledge almost thirty places of Scripture more which seem most plain and evident to them as by their Books that are extant appeareth 22. The like places they do alledge also for that other absurd Position of theirs That no Magistrate may punish by death as for example those words of God Exod. 20. Non occides Thou shalt not kill and again the saying of our Savior Omnes qui acceperint gladium gladio peribunt Matth. 26. All that use the sword shall perish by the sword Thus said the Anabaptists from which by no means could they be drawn but went willingly to the fire for testimony of their Opinions The Arians also denying the Equality of God the Son with the Father alledged no less plain places as they would have them to seem namely that of Christ himself in St. John's Gospel ch 14. Pater meus major me est My Father is greater than I and many other which were too long here to recite And this of them who burned together obstinately in one fire in England 23. But what shall we say of the Lutherans Do not they alledge plain places also both against Us and Calvinists as themselves think For against Calvinists in defence of the Real Presence in the Sacrament they urge the plain words of Christ as we do Hoc est corpus meum This is my Body And against us for their gross Opinion that the substance of Bread and Wine remaineth together with the Body of Christ they alledge many places of Scripture where it is called Bread which places the Zuinglians accepting do turn the same against the Lutherans affirming that for so much as it is so oftentimes called Bread in the Scripture it is not the true Body of Christ at all And this passed between Fryer Barns and the two Apostata Priests Gerard and Jerom burned with him The first a fervent Lutheran the other two earnest Zuinglians all three consumed by Fire at one Stake in Smithfield by King Henries appointment in the Thirty-second year of his Reign 24. But now was there a third or fourth sort of Sectaries in K. Henries days who were neither Anabaptists Arians nor yet perfect Lutherans or Zwinglians but would have the Controversie of the Blessed Sacrament and Real Presence to be an indifferent thing to be believed or not believed as every Man should think best So held William Tyndall as also his Scholar John Frith whom John Fox doth compare to St. Paul and Timothy Frith being Burned in Smithfield by the Kings express Commandment in the Twenty-sixth year of his Reign and Tyndall not long after in Flanders by the said Kings procurement as more largely we shall declare in the Third Part of this Treatise when we come to examine John Fox his Calendar of Martyrs Now it shall be sufficient for proof of that we say to alledge Fox himself who setting down the Articles of Frith for which he was Burned assigneth this for the first First saith he the matter of the Sacrament is no necessary Article of Faith under pain of Damnation c. But may be believed or not believed as every Man shall think best And for proof thereof alledgeth divers Arguments out of Scripture that the Fathers forsooth of the Old Testament were saved by the same Faith that we are and yet were not bound to believe the Real Presence c. And Fox seemeth to like well both of this Argument and of the Heresie 25. Now then here be four or five sorts of Sectaries Condemned by King Henry and all defended themselves by shew of Scriptures but for that each of them doth reserve the interpretation of Scripture to themselves and thereby teacheth new Doctrin contrary to that which was received generally in the known Church before them to whose judgment and interpretation they will not yield themselves Hereof it followed that the indictment of Heresie lyeth truly and justly against them and that they were worthily Condemned and Burned for this Pride self-will and obstinacy But on the contrary side against the Catholics that died for the Ecclesiastical Supremacy of the Pope none of these Accusations can justly be laid for that they do neither stand upon their own judgment nor have invented any thing of new nor do adhere to their own Interpretations or Exposition of Scriptures but being accused do make their Plea and Defence far otherwise to wit that they found this Doctrin of the Popes Supremacy in use and practice before they were born as a thing received from Age to Age by the known Catholic Church time out of mind that they see all Christian Kingdoms and Princes to have embraced the same and General Councils to have allowed thereof That the Texts and Examples of Scripture alledged for the proof of this Article and all others whereon they stand are not inventions of their own but so expounded by Ancient Fathers and uniform consent of the Catholic Church that all our Christian English Kings from our first Conversion unto King Henry the Eighth acknowledged this Spiritual Authority of the Bishop of Rome and King Henry himself defended the same most earnestly with his own Pen not many years before against Luther and Lutherans That it is not a thing devised but delivered as Tertullian said of the Catholic Faith and therefore if any point thereof were to
Realm of ancient times and therein consider the course of times where he may find and read Anno 5 Reg. Rich. 2. in the year of our Lord 1380 of a great number that there be called evil persons going about from Town to Town in Frize Gowns preaching unto the People c. Which Preachers tho' the words of the Statute do term them to be dissembling persons preaching divers Sermons containing Heresies and notorious Errors to the emblemishment of Christian Faith c. yet notwithstanding may every true Christian Reader conceive of those Preachers to have taught no other Doctrin than now they hear their own Preachers in Pulpits preach c. 22. Mark here three Points good Reader First That if all this were true that the Wickliffians had preached no other Doctrin than the Protestants do now yet nothing followeth of this but that Protestants Doctrin was condemned for Heresie not only by the Church-Laws but also by divers Acts of English Parliaments above 200 years past Which thing what help or credit it can bring to Fox his Religion which standeth chiefly in England by Authority of far latter Acts of Parliament I do not see for that hereof only may be inferred two Conclusions if his premises be true The first That Protestants were condemned for Heretics by Acts of Parliament 200 years agone The second If those ancient Acts of Parliament were of little force in matters of Religion then latter Acts that have established a different Religion may also be called in question and that with much more reason and probability 23. Secondly I say That this Assertion of Fox is most apparently false to wit that the Wickliffian Preachers taught no other Doctrin than the Protestant Preachers now teach if the Articles before alleged out of himself be truly written by him For neither do the Protestant Preachers in England at this day teach the Real Presence in the blessed Sacrament of the Altar or the Doctrin of Purgatory as you have heard Sir John Oldcastle a chief Wickliffian profess a little before nor yet do Protestants hold those Articles of John Wickliff himself which in this Chapter we have mentioned as held neither by Them nor Us. And much less do they hold any other Catholic Opinions which the Wickliffians did together with their Heresies So as this is a notorious untruth and cannot be denied or dissembled 24. Thirdly We may consider of the particular Point which before I noted That John Fox is not ashamed to cite a whole Parliament against himself and then in a word to reject the same as of no credit in the World in respect of Him and his Denial or Rejection The Parliament saith he calleth these Frize gown-Preachers the Wickliffians dissembling persons but you must think notwithstanding they were very honest men The Parliament saith That they preached Heresies and notorious Errors but John Fox saith it was true Christian Doctrin Whom shall we here believe either the whole Parliament who lived with them and examined both their Doctrin and doings or John Fox that cometh more than 200 years after them and will needs make himself their Brother whether they will or no and judge also of the Parliament But let us hear him yet further 25. Furthermore saith he you shall find likewise in Statuto anno 2 Hen. 4. cap. 15. in the year of our Lord 1402 another like Company of godly Preachers and faithful Defenders of true Doctrin whom albeit the words of the Statute there through corruption of time do falsly term to be false and perverse Preachers under dissembled Holiness teaching in those days openly and privily new Doctrin and heretical Opinions c. Yet notwithstanding whoever readeth Histories and the orderly descent of times shall understand these to be no false Teachers but faithful Witnesses of the Truth c. 26. Lo here the testimony of another Parliament of our Country held 22 years after the former which John Fox rejecteth with the same facility that he did the other For whereas the Parliament that had examined the matter protesteth That they had found them false perverse and dissembling People teaching new Doctrin and heretical Opinions Fox averreth the contrary That they were good Preachers and faithful Defenders of true Doctrin and holy Witnesses of God's Truth And for proof hereof he saith That whosoever readeth Histories and conferreth the Order and Descent of times shall understand thus much to be true But how and by what means a man shall gather this understanding he telleth us not And by the Historical Discourses and Conference of times which we have hitherto made in this Book we understand the contrary finding indeed by Descent and Order of times that these Opinions of Wickliff Husse and Lollards and the like were new heretical Opinions indeed and taken and judged so by Christendom at their up rising and appearance in the World. Wherefore this is plain impudence in Fox to say that by reading Histories and noting descent of Times these men are by him justified from being Sectaries 27. It followeth in Fox Of the like number also saith he of like true faithful favourers and followers of God's holy Word we find in the year of our Lord 1422 specified in a Letter sent from Henry Chichesley Archbishop of Canterbury to Pope Martin V. of many infected here in England as he said by the Heresies of Wickliff and Husse c. who tho' they be termed for Heretics and Schismatics yet served they the living Lord within the Ark of his true spiritual and visible Church And where is then the frivolous brag of the Papists which make so much of their painted Sheaths c 28. Do you see in what jollity of mind John Fox is put by finding out this Succession of his new visible Church for above 200 years downward Do you hear how he vaunteth of Antiquity and long Continuance albeit indeed he nameth not continuance nor can he for that I think he will not grant that the Wickliffian Church doth endure unto this day or that if a number of those Wickliffian holy Teachers and faithful Witnesses of the Truth so much praised here by him should come into England at this day or Scotland or into Germany or Geneva or among any other Sect or sort of Protestants whatsoever and should preach that Doctrin which they preached then to wit against the Church of Rome in many Points but yet defending that number of Sacraments which they did the Real Presence Sacrifice of the Mass together with those extravagant Articles also before mentioned to wit That it is against the Scriptures that Bishops or true Ministers should have any Temporal Lands and Livings and that Tythes are not due and that both Princes and Prelates do lose their Offices Authorities and Dignities whensoever they fall into mortal sin c. If these men I say that were so true Preachers and principal Guiders of the Ark of John Fox his true visible and spiritual Church
certain Alterations did not take counsel nor direction from the new Gospellers to do it but rather set forth a Book of his own entituled thus Articles devised by the King's Highness So do testifie both Hall Hollinshead and Stow. And then Hall who lived in those days addeth further In this Book are especially mentioned but three Sacraments with the which the Lincolnshire men were offended And then again afterwards he writeth This Book especially treated of no more than three Sacraments where always before the people had been taught seven Sacraments c. Which Articles being delivered to the people the Inhabitants of the North parts being very ignorant and rude and not knowing what true Religion meant c. said Now you see Friends that four Sacraments of seven are taken from us and shortly you shall lose the other three also except you look about you c. Thus writeth Hall of the beginning of the Insurrection of Lincoln York and other Shires by occasion of these new-devised Articles in Religion Whereby notwithstanding we see that King Henry thinking best to make some alteration tho' he meant not indeed to take away any Sacrament as afterwards appeared yet disdained he to take his Platform from the Protestants or Gospellers of those days but devised of himself the Innovation which for the present he meant to make Whereof I have heard of a certain Story not unpleasant nor from the purpose which therefore here I will set down 17. A certain Courtier at that day some say it was Sir Francis Bryan talking with a Lady that was somewhat forward in the new Gospel about this Book of the King 's then lately come forth she seemed to mislike greatly the Title thereof to wit Articles devised by the King's Highness c. saying That it seemed not a fit Title to authorise matters in Religion to ascribe them to a mortal King's device Whereunto the Courtier answered Truly Madam I will tell you my conceit plainly If we must needs have devices in Religion I had rather have them from a King than from a Knave as your Devices are I mean that Knave Frier Martin who not yet 20 years agone was Deviser of your new Religion and behav'd himself so lewdly in answering his Majesty with scorn and contempt as I must needs call him a Knave tho' otherwise I do not hate altogether the Profession of Friers as your Ladyship knoweth Moreover said he it is not unknown neither to your Ladyship nor Us that he devised these new Tricks of Religion which you now so much esteem and reverence not for God or Devotion or to do Penance but for Ambition and to revenge himself upon the Dominican Friers that had gotten from him the preaching of the Pope's Bulls as also to get himself the use of a Wench and that a Nun also which now he holdeth And soon after him again three other married Priests his Scholars to wit Oecolampadius Carolstadius and Zuinglius devised another Religion of the Sacramentaries against their said Master And since these again we hear every day of other fresh Upstarts that devise us new Doctrins and there is no end of Devising or Devisers And I would rather for my part stick to the devising of a King that hath Majesty in him and a Council to assist him especially such a King as ours is than to a thousand of these Companions put together 18. It is true said the Lady when they are Devices indeed of Men but when they bring Scriptures with them to prove their sayings then are they not Mens Devices but God's Eternal Truth and Word And will you say so Madam quoth he And do you not remember what ado we had the last year about this time with certain Hollanders here in England whom our Bishops and Doctors could not overcome by Scriptures notwithstanding they held most horrible Heresies which make my Hairs to stand upright to think of them against the Manhood and Flesh of Christ our Savior and against the Virginity of his Blessed Mother and against the Baptism of Infants and the like wicked Blasphemies I was my self present at the Condemnation of fourteen of them in Paul's Church in one day and heard them dispute and allege Scriptures so fast for their Heresies as I was amazed thereat and after I saw some of these Knaves burned in Smithfield and they went so merrily to their Death singing and chanting Scriptures as I began to think with my self whether their Device was not of some value or no until afterward thinking better of the matter I blessed my self from them and so let them go 19 Oh said the Lady but these were Knaves indeed that devised new Doctrins of their own heads and were very Heretics not worthy to be believed But how shall I know quoth the Courtier that Your Devisers have not done the like seeing These alleged Scriptures no less than They and did one thing more which is that they went to the fire and burned for their Doctrin when they might have lived which your Frier and his Scholars before named have not hitherto done And finally Madam I say as at the beginning I said If we must needs follow devising we Courtiers had much rather follow a King than a Frier in such a matter For how many years Madam have Friers shorn their Heads and no Courtier hath ever follow'd them hitherto to therein But now his Majesty having begun this last May as you know to poll his Head and commanded others to do the like you cannot find any unshorn Head in the Court among us Men tho' you Women be exempted And so I conclude that the device of a King is of more credit than the device of a Friar And with this the Lady laugh'd and so the Conference was ended 20 And thus much for the first devising or setting up of new Religion in England Now for the going forward thereof let us hear a large testimony of John Fox himself and thereby judge how Apostolic the manner was of promoting the same To many which be yet alive saith Fox and can testifie these things it is not unknown how variable the state of Religion stood in those days how hardly and with what difficulty it came forth what chances and changes it suffered even as the King was ruled and gave ear sometime to one and sometime to another so one while it went forward and another season it went as much backward again and sometime clean altered and changed for a season according as they could prevail which were about the King c. 21. Here now you see both the beginning and progress of Fox's Gospel whereof in the Margin he maketh this Note The course of the Gospel interrupted by malicious Enemies Here you do hear him say that the Birth of his Gospel came forth hardly and with great difficulty and straining and then that it grew or went backward as the King was ruled by others and gave credit
years next before the entrance of St. Augustin was for Him and His Church and not for Ours yea different from the Roman Religion brought in by Augustin as often you have heard him protest and here had been the proper place to have proved it if it had been provable And whereas in the same Protestation of his prefixed before his whole Volume he avouched as you have heard that the chief British Preachers and Teachers of these times before St. Augustin's coming as Fastidius Ninianus Patricius Dubritius Congellus David Asaphus Gildas and others before mentioned were true Teachers and taught the Gospel rightly according to the Protestant Faith and consequently were of his Religion he ought here to have proved the same by their Writings Lives Acts and Monuments as I have shewed the contrary by all these kind of Arguments and Proofs before But the Fox knowing the difficulty and peril of this Combat would not enter into the same nor take upon him to defend or justifie any thing at all tho' never so much promised or protested in his Prefaces and Preambles at the beginning Whereof the Reasons are these that ensue 11. First For that touching the British Church during these three Ages he had in truth nothing at all to write or relate but what would be manifestly against himself if he had written or related it and descended to particulars For according to that you have heard before in divers places of this Treatise that as the first Faith of the Britans came from Rome and thereby they were made Members of the Roman Church from the beginning so remained they united with the same in all points of Faith and Religion except some few abuses crept in among part of them towards the latter-end of these three Ages until the Conversion of the English by St. Augustin to the same Roman Faith. Which point is proved so evidently by so many Signs Arguments and Demonstrations as little comfort might John Fox have to enter into this Discourse or Examination and consequently tho' he had promised in the beginning to treat this Subject of the British Church yet coming to the place and time when he should have performed his promise he thought better to withdraw himself slightly by utter silence than to put himself in Briars by making any mention at all thereof And thus much for his silence concerning the Christian Church of Britanny in these three Ages 12. But for the general Catholic Church of Christendom tho' these times yield abundant matter as hath been said yet the whole stream and current thereof running quite against him he thought best in like manner to decline craftily the medling or wrestling therewith And so much the more for that he had seen the pitiful plight wherein his Masters the Magdeburgians had cast themselves in their fourth fifth and sixth Centuries by over-large relating the Acts and Gests of these three Ages against themselves and their own Religion being forc'd to spend a great part of their Labors not so much in relating what the Fathers of those Ages writ or held as to answer and refute the same and shew that it was not true nor the said Doctors and Fathers to be believed therein Which trouble John Fox like a wily Fox indeed thought best to avoid by Art of Silence I will in this place for examples sake only and to give you a taste of the said Magdeburgians dealing throughout their whole Work from which John Fox taketh the principal parts of his let you see some points taken out of their fourth Century dedicated to her Majesty of England with a sharp Invective as before hath been shewed used by them against the Calvinists therein which Century containeth the fourth Hundred year after Christ and the first of the three which now we have in hand from Constantine downward wherein they spend above 400 Leaves in Folio and more than twice as much in the other two Centuries that ensue John Fox not having bestow'd four Leaves upon all three Ages as you have heard 13. And that you may perceive how this one Century of the Magdeburgians cometh to make so great a Volume you must note that it is divided into certain large Chapters or Heads of different matters As for example first of the propagation of Christian Religion in that Age and the State thereof throughout all Countreys Kingdoms and Nations which is a large matter as you see comprehending the Stories of all Ecclesiastical Writers Secondly of Persecutions Troubles and Jars that have passed as also of Peace and Tranquility Then of Doctrin good or bad then of Heresies then of Rites and Ceremonies then of Ecclesiastical Government then of Schisms then of Synods and Councils then of Bishops Doctors and Teachers their Lives Works and Actions at large then of Heretics their beginnings and endings then of Martyrs then of Miracles then of Pagan Commonwealths also and other such points capable as you see of long Discourses Which I thought fit once to note to the end that those which have not read the Centuries may know in general what matters they handle and what method they use therein 14. Secondly it is to be noted about the same affair That in all these Heads and Chapters there be divers things which are not in controversie among us I mean between Catholics and Protestants but are common to us both at least in some degrees Other Points there are that they affirm and we deny or we affirm and they deny There is a third kind also of Points wherein tho' We and Protestants do not agree fully either in the Doctrin or in the Practice yet one Sect of them differeth more or less from us than the other And in all these three Points you shall see some brief Examples of the Magdeburgians manner of proceeding in this fourth Age Noting to you first by the way their own Testimony of the excellent Learning of the Doctors and Teachers thereof in these words Habuit haec aet as si quae unquam alia plurimos praestantes illustres Doctores ut Arnobium Lactantium c. This Age if ever any other had very many most excellent and famous Doctors as Arnobius Lactantius Eusebius Athanasius Hilarius Victorinus Basilius Nazianzenus Ambrosius Prudentius Epiphanius Theophilus Hieronymus Faustinus Didymus Ephrem Optatus and others out of which we shall shew and declare what was the form of Christian Doctrin used in this Age. 15. Lo there the Testimony of the Magdeburgians of the famous Doctors Teachers and Leaders of Christ's Church in this Age And being such as they say so excellently Learned and endued with Christ's Spirit for Guiding of his Church is it probable think you that these four German Magdeburgians Illyricus Wigandus Judex and Faber shall come to presume afterward to condemn them all of Ignorance and lack of Spirit when they speak against them Truly they cannot do it with any shame fac'dness or modesty at all or be believed
by any discreet man if they do it Well then let us examin this point a little 16. In their Chapter of Doctrin when they talk of these Points of God and the B. Trinity of Three distinct Persons of the Natures and Wills of Christ and other such matter wherein They and We do not differ they alledge these Fathers abundantly And no marvel for as long as they teach Catholic Doctrin they have all the Fathers Works and Volumes for them but when they touch any Point wherein there is controversie between us there they fall out presently with the said Fathers for holding against them As for example in one Paragraph of this Chapter and Doctrin which Paragraph is de lib. Arbitrio they begin it thus De lib. Arbitrio quae commodè tollerabiliter à Doctoribus hujus aetatis tradita videntur sic habent Those things which seem unto us to have been commodiously and tolerably delivered by the Doctors of this Age about Free-will are these that follow Wherein they censure first as you see all Doctors of this Age so greatly extolled by them before as tho' they had delivered many things incommodious and intolerable about Free-will as indeed afterwards in another Chapter entituled The declining of true Doctrin containing the incommodious Opinions and Errors of these Doctors they speak more plainly thus Patres omnes ferè hujus aetatis de lib. Arbitrio confusè loquuntur contra manifesta Scripturae fanctae testimonia Almost all the Fathers of this Age do speak confusedly of Free-will and against the manifest testimonies of holy Scripture And for proof of this they name in particular Lactantius Athanasius Basil Nazianzen Epiphanius Hieronymus and Gregorius Nyssenus condemning them all for not denying altogether Free-will in man after his Fall. 17. Again in the same Chapter of Doctrin and Paragraph de Poenitentia they begin thus Doctrinam de Poenitentia ut gravis per sese magni est momenti ita satis tenuiter frigidè quantum quidem ex scriptis ejus videre est quemadmodum in superioribus saeculis tractatam videas ab hac aetate Nos igitur ea quae de hac parte mediocriter rectè utiliter dicta esse videntur recitabimus The Doctrin of Penance as it is a grave matter in it self and of great importance so we do see it handled by this Age as also by the former Ages very slightly and coldly as we may see by their Writings extant Wherefore we shall recite here those things only of this matter which seem unto us to have been spoken by the said Fathers with some mediocrity rectitude and utility c. See now their Judgment and Censure of all the Fathers not only of this Age but of all the former Ages also since Christ as having written both slightly and coldly And yet further in another Chapter of declining Doctrin they say Poenitentiam haec aetas ut ferè superiores neque rectè definiit neque partes ejus satis explicavit imò nec de Fide necessaria Poenitentiae parte propemodùm aliquid habet This fourth Age as neither the other three before have either given the true definition of Penance nor sufficiently declared the parts thereof nay they speak nothing almost of Faith which yet is a necessary part of Penance 18. Thus they pronounce boldly of all the Ages since Christ not excepting that of the Apostles themselves And who can suffer so wicked a slander as tho' they had made no mention of Faith at all or as tho' when they prescribe Fasting Prayer Sorrow and Tears to Penance they excluded Faith whereas it is evident even unto Children that no man can perform these things except he have first Faith and do believe in him whom he seeketh to please and pacifie I say nothing here of the intolerable Injuries and false Calumniations which they do infer upon the holy Fathers without all cause if their words were examined As for example in this very place they condemn St. Ephrem for depraving Penance and excluding Faith from the same for that he saith Per lachrymas hujus brevissimi temporis peccata Deus dimittit c. Et cum sanaverit mercedem conferet lachrymarum God saith this Saint doth pardon our sins by our tears shed in this short time of our life and when he hath healed us he will give us a reward also for our tears Who seeth not but that this holy Father supposeth Faith in him that doth weep and consequently is not subject to the wicked slander of the Magdeburgians affirming him to exclude Faith Yet thus they use both Him and all Fathers lightly when they cite them to refute their Sentences alledging them commonly with some false Calumniation But let us go forward 19. When they come to speak of the Doctrin of the Blessed Sacrament and Real Presence for that in this they hold with us against the Sacramentaries and Calvinists they do Cite the Fathers abundantly As that of St. Ambrose Didicisti quia quod accipis corpus Christi est Thou hast learned that the thing which thou receivest is the Body of Christ And again Bibi sanguinem è Christo ìdque in veritate non in umbra aut similitudine I have drunk the Blood of Christ and that in truth not in a shadow or similitude And then out of St. Hillary Si verè verbum caro factum est nos verè verbum carnem cibo dominico sumimus If the word of God be truly made Flesh then do we truly receive that Flesh in the Lords Supper And further they allege St. Hierom Arnobius Juvencus and others of this Age that have the like Testimonies and clear Speeches for proof of this verity Which do seem to them so strong and manifest demonstrations against the Zwinglian and Calvinian Doctrin avowing to the contrary That they hold them for obstinatly blind that deny or resist the same And this for that the Doctrin pleaseth them But if we step a foot further to the Doctrin of this Blessed Sacrament made also a Sacrifice and so testified by the same Fathers that affirmed the Real Presence Then our good Magdeburgians that commended them so highly before do flatly leave both them and us and do place their sayings in their other Chapter of incommodious Speeches Accompting them for Straw and Stubble and Erroneous Doctrin Incommode dictum est say they quòd citatur ex Athanasii libello c. It was spoken incommodiously by Athanasius in his Book of the Image of Christ where he denyeth expresly that there is any thing remaining in this World of the Flesh and Blood of Christ but only that which is dayly made Spiritually by the hands of Priests upon the Altar It is a new phrase also of Nazianzen when he saith Mox incruenti Sacrificii oblatione manus commaculat presently he did stain his hands with the oblation of the unbloody Sacrifice Again they