hee shall appoint open or secret enemies to the State against their King and to take armes against him and by warres insurrections or treasoâ—s to throw the Land on heapes and bring in a Chaos of miserable confusion Or suppose the Bull goeth so farre as Pius V. his Bull against our right gracious and famous Queene Elizabeth to pronounce the King to bee no King to discharge the subiects from their allegiance to him to command them to take armes against him and by any meanes to depose or bring him to ruine Now the Kings life and the spoyle of the Kingdome and the damnable sinne of the people must depend vpon this Breefe or Bull for it must be executed whether it come from the Pope as a man or as Pope Poore blinded people must be ledde with a Piè credendum and neither haue the meanes or any minde to know whether this Bull came from the Pope canonically entring or maturely deliberating or wisely and orderly proceeding if any such thing can be imagined in such mischieuous practises or whether it come from a Non-Pope or misinformed or vniust Bellar. de Rom. pent l. 4. c. 2 §. Deinde Catholici conueniunt Pontificem siue errare possit siue non esse omnibus fidelibus obedienter audiendum rash or ill aduised howsoeuer it is No man must iudge Christs Vicar but for conscience sake and vnder paine of damnation all must obey Alas that Christs pretended Vicar should doe the workes of Antichrist Alas that men piously minded should be so impiously bewitched to become the instruments of Antichrist thinking to doe seruice to Christ himselfe Alas that learned men should abuse Gods gifts of wit learning and other talents bending all their forces to maintaine such doctrine Antiq. Sir keepe your passion for other company Reason shall preuaile with mee more than passion Antiquis Deare friend it is not passion but compassion to poore deceiued soules brought into such damnable courses by such efficacy of delusion though I know not how in such causes a good man should not be passionate §. 6. §. I. But to returne to Reason from which your Reasonlesse distinctions drew me In our former examples of Popes errings doe you not see that although the Papists of this age excuse Honorius of all heresie and count him a Saint yet the Catholikes of former ages accounted him an heretike for the sixt generall Councell condemned him Bellar. de Rom. Pontif. l. 4. c. 11. and if that Councell were misinformed or corrupted as Bellarmine imagineth and thereby induced also the seuenth Councell and Pope Leo also to curse and condemne him yet it appeareth thereby that they thought it possible for a Pope to be an heretike and surely neither Liberius nor Honorius nor any other Pope had euer beene taxed of heresie if the world had then thought the Popes to bee infallible §. II. This also giues vs another argument against the assertion of the now-Church of Rome that none of the Ancients euer knew or acknowledged any infallible Iudge in the Church Mr Bedels letters to Wadsworth p. 53. 59 â—0 though wee may imagine such an one would haue beene a wonderfull benefit in securing all men fâ—om error with great tranquility of the Church in easing leatned men of much vnnecessary contention and of great labour and study and choaking all heresies both easily and quickly and thereby Diuinity should haue had the honour aboue all other professions to reduce all doubts to certaineties If any such thing had beene it were most strange that the Ancients writing of all other points of Christian doctrine should neuer speake word of it being a thing of such excellent and necessary vse as is imagined therefore their very silence thereof proueth there was no such thing But their contentions with the Pope shew it more fully For no man that beleeueth the Pope to be the infallible Iudge of the Church and so appointed by God §. III will refuse his opinion or gouernment But we find the ancient wise and holy Bishops made no bones ordinarily to reiect them both In the very infancy of this affected Supremacy a See this story in Euseb hist l. 5. c. 24 25 26. when Pope Victor tooke vpon him to excommunicate the East Church for not concurring with him in the Celebration of Easter day not onely Polycrates and the Easterne Bishops reiected his decision but most of the Westerne as Irenaeus with his French Clergy grauely reproued him of too much presumption b See Cyprians Epistles Afterwards when the Pope tooke vpon him to heare Appeales of men pretending to be wronged by their owne country officers which is the smallest portion of Supremacy yet Cyprian an holy Martyr resisted him c Bellar. de pontif Rom l. 4 cap 7. and the whole Nation of Africa refused his iudgement and gouernment yea Saint Cyprian with a Councell of fourescore Bishops decreed directly against the Pope d Concil â—arthag de Haeret. bâ—ptiz inter opera Cypriani And when Cornelius Bishop of Rome with a Nationall Councell of the Bishops of Italy had decreed Non debere Haereticos rebaptizari that heretikes should not be rebaptized yet Cyprian thought and taught the contrary Constat Cyprianâ—m contrariuÌ„ sensisse mordicus defendisse saith Bellarmine e Bellar. l. 2. dâ— concilijs c. 5. See Euseb hist li 7 cap. 2 3 4. See these and many more the like histories in B. â—ilson True â—iffâ—â—eÌ„ce part 1. p. 96. c The Fathers of the Councell of Africa and Saint Augustine among them resisted three Popes in succession Sosimus Bonifacius and Celestine about Appeals to Rome These things are notorious and histories haue many more the like and though some of these were in the wrong yet they alwayes thought the Pope in the wrong and would neuer haue opposed him had they thought him their infallible Iudge By their doings therefore and writings they shewed the generall opinion of men in their times that the Pope was not generall gouernour ouer them and that he was as fallible in iudgement as other Bishops Bedel letters pag 61. Consider also If the Pope were the infallible interpreter of Scripture and could not erre in his interpretations why did Pope Damasus consult with Ierom about the sence of many places of the Scripture and not rather set down the sence thereof himselfe and declare with his owne pen what the whole world should hold without danger or possibility of error Or why haue our fond Fathers macerated their bodies and beaten their braines to write Commentaries vpon the Scripture and not rather registred the Popes Expositions which had beene a worke worth all the Fathers books and indeed equall to the Canonicall Scriptures or better and more vsefull for the Church whereas now many condemne that of the Canon Law for blasphemy where it saith by a shamefull corruption of Saint Augustine that the Decretals of Popes are inrolled amongst the
opinion All which to let passe * See D. Field Appendix 1. part pag. 100. seq and Appendix of 27 Articles to the seuenth chapter of the third booke printed at the end of the fourth multitudes of others you still count Catholickes and of your Church though they taught many things against you And therefore out of your owne iudgement we may conclude that some few differences in some points betwixt Protestants doe not hinder them from being all of one Church and Religion §. 3. Antiquus Yes for your differences are great and many ours small and few Antiquissimus When you looke through false spectacles things may be seene greater or smaller then they are take heed you looke not on our differences through the spectacles of malice which makes euery small thing great and vgly and on your owne differences through the spectacles of selfe-loue which makes them seeme small and tollerable One speciall point of the manner of Christs being and being receiued in the Sacrament Archb. Abbot ag Hill Reason 5 §. 26. makes the maine difference bewixt the Lutherans in Denmarke and some places of Germany and the other reformed Churches Anthony sometime King of Nauarre said to the Ambassadour of Denmarke Comment Relig. Reip. in Gal. lib. exhorting the reformed French to be of Luthers doctrine There bee forty points wherein Luther and Calvin doe differ from the pope and in 39 of them they agree betweene themselues and in that single one they dissent Their followers therefore should doe well to ioyne in the greater number against the pope till they haue ruâ—nated him and when his heart is broken they should fall to compound that last single difference God in his good time grant it Now in that one speciall point Zanchius de dissidio Cana Dom. Iudicium tomo septimo in fine Miscelaneorum D. Field Church lib. 5. Appendix part 1. pag. 114. the difference is nothing so great as you would haue it thought For as the most learned and iudicious Zanchius obserueth and our Doctor Field out of him In all necessary points both the parties agree and dissent in one vnnecessary which by right vnderstanding one another might easily bee compounded First both parties agree in the necessity of the receiuers due preparing themselues with knowledge of their sinnes repentance of them faith in Christ for pardon of them and resolution to liue according to Gods Law Secondly both sides agree in the acknowledgement of the excellent vse of the Sacrament for a perpetuall memoriall of the death and passion of Christ for our saluation and that with him we should dye to sinne and be raised againe to newnesse of life be made one with him and nourished by him in a spirituall life here to eternall life hereafter Thirdly both sides agree that the very body and blood of Christ are to be receiued in that Sacrament that thereby we may be partakers of the life of Grace and also be strengthened confirmed and continued therein Fourthly both sides agree that the elements of bread and wine presenting to our consideration and faith the spirituall nourishing force that is in the body and blood of Christ are not abolished in their substance but onely changed in their vse which is not onely to signifie but also to exhibit and communicate vnto vs the very body and blood of Christ with all the gracious working and fruits thereof Fiftly both sides agree that the meaning of Christs words This is my Body This is my Blood when hee gaue them the Bread and Wine was this This which outwardly and vâ—sibly I giue you is in substance Bread and Wine and in mystery or exhibitiue signification my Body and Blood but this which together with them I giue you inuisibly is my very Boâ—y that is to be crucified and my very Blood which is to be shed for the remission of your sinnes Sixtly both parties agree and professe they firmely beleeue that the very Body and Blood of Christ which the Sacraments doe not onely signifie but exhib t and whereof the faithfull are partakers are truely present in the Sacrament and by the faithfull truely and really receiued Thus farre all parties agree that is in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament for the other matter wherein they differ De modo of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures In the iudgement of Zanchius it might be well omitted themselues confesse when they haue gone as farre as they can to determine it still it is ineffable and not possible to be fully vnderstood It is enough for vs to beleeue the Body and Blood are there though how and in what manner we cannot define §. 4. Antiquus Whether it be of so little importance or no I dispute not but I am sure the Controuersie still remaines and is hotly pursued and yet this is not the onely difference betwixt your Protestants there are many other Antiquissimus The more greatly to blame is your pope and Romish Hierarchy that when many grieuous corruptions of your Church both in Doctrine and gouernment were manifestly layed open See D. Field Appendix to the fift booke of the Church part 1. pag. 71. Gerson 3. part Apologet. de concilio Constantion Idâ—m de concilio vnius obedientiae would not for al the importunity of Princes Prelats people yeeld to any wholsome reformation but with obstinate resistance hindred all publicke proceeding in Reformation by the course of a general Councell so that seuerall States and Kingdomes were faine to redresse things amisse seuerally within their owne compasse without sufficient Intelligence and consultation one with another which could not bee done without some differences and it is lâ—ttle lesse then miraculous that the differences were not many more and greater Cassander saith when many were moued out of a godly affection sharply to reproue certaine manifest abuses Cassander consultation art 7. they were repelled and disdainfully contemned by them who were puffed vp with the swell ng conceits of their Ecclesiasticall power which caused the great distraction or rent of the Church and no firme peace is to be hoped for vnlesse the beginning thereof be from them that gaue the cause of this diuision that is vnlesse they that haue the gouernment of the Church remit something of their too great rigor and listning to the desires of many godly ones correct manifest abuses according to the rule of sacred Scripture and the ancient Church from which they are departed c. Thus writes your Cassander though a papist yet moderate and truely Iudicious Contarenus in confutatione Articulorum Lutheri Also your Cardinall Contarenus writing of the grieuances and complaints of the Lutherans for the manifold abuses brought into the Church makes a prayer to God that he would moue the hearts of the Prelats of the Church at the last to put away most pernicious selfe-loue and be
glasse darkely Aug. epist 57. Regula Fidei pufillis magnisque communis And therefore beside that larger measure of knowledge whereof all are not capable there must be a rule of Faith common to great and small as Saint Augustine calls it And as there is a common saluation a Iude v. 3. whereof the meanest beleeuer is capable as well as the greatest Apostles b 2 Pet. 1.1 so there must be a common faith c Tit. 1.4 sufficient to conduct vs all vnto it §. 4. This Saint Paul calls The fourme of sound words 2 Tim. 1.13 hold fast the forme of sound words which thou hast heard of me in faith and loue which is in Christ Iesus 1 It must be a forme frame or fashion body method Rule of Faith or of sound and sauing Doctrine fit for all Preachers to frame their Sermons by and all Christians to frame their faith and life by Timothy in preaching and the Ephesians in hearing and practizing 2 It must be not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as rom 6.17 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here a short forme or briefe method There must perspicuity for the vnderstanding and breuity for the memory of simple men 3 To these must be added certainty which thou hast heard of me learned of men inspired by the Holy Ghost 2 Pet. 1.21 2 Tim. 3 15 16 17. Bellar. De verbo Dei lib. 1. cap. 2. § quare cum Sacra Scriptura est regula credendi certissima tutissimaque saith Bellarmine 4 Adde also sufficiency both for Credenda all things to be beleeued in Faith and for Facienda all things to be performed in Loue which is the fulfilling of the Law For true Faith and good life containe all things belonging to a Christian And all things appertaining to these that are necessary for all men to know are contained in the Scriptures saith Bell also * Idem ib. l. 4. c 11.9 His notatu Duo omnia illa scripta esse ab Apostolis qua sunt omnibus necessaria quae ipsi palam omnibus pradicaverant Costerus in Enchiridio c. 1. de sacra scriptura §. Caeterum Caeterum non insiciamur praecipna illa capita qua omnibus Christianis ad salutem necessaria perspicue satis essè Apostolicis scriptu comprehensa As Augustine also de doctr Christiana l. 2. c. 9 â—ellar de Iustif l. 3. c. 8. § prima ratio B. Vsher serm Wansted p. 42. Vincent Lirinen siâ— contra haeres c. 3. Jn ipsa catholica ecclesia magnopere curandum est vt id teneamus quod vbique quod semper quod ab omnibus creditum est hoc est enim verè proprinque catholicum Ioan. Serran in Apparat. ad fidem call â—l edit Paris 1607. pag. 172. Vsher ib. pag. 59. See S. August libr. de fi de operibus cap. 9. Yea and that plainly enough saith the Iesuite Costerus 5 And to these belong also that Antiquity Vniuersality and Vnity which are so much spoken of and are vsually but most falsly applyed to the new additioÌ„s of the Roman Church as well as to these fundameÌ„tall principles to which onely they belong Vincentius Lirinensis saith well That is truely and properly Catholicke and to be held in the Catholicke Church whâ—ch in all places in all times and of all Christians hath beene and is beleeued And this saith Serranus a late learned man who hath written a full discourse of this argument is that doctrine against which the gates of Hell shall neuer preuaile and which the Father of lies by all his deuises and attempts could neuer yet nor euer shall abolish or foote out of the hearts of men This Antiquity Vniuersality or Catholicisme and this Vnity or Generall consent of Christian doctrine will neuer be found any where but in the essentiall substantiall and fundamentall points thereof 6 Saint Paul yet addeth these words Which is in Christ Iesus because he is the deepest Foundation root Author and finisher of our Faith and Loue of our future saluation and of our present gracious conuersation Other Foundation can no man lay saith the same Saint Paul 1. cor 3.11 Not that there need no other principles of Faith then those that concerne his person onely and directly for the Articles concerning God the Father the Holy Ghost the forgiuenesse of sinnes resurrection of the dead the last Iudgement c. haue their place in the Foundation Hebr. 6.1 â— but because Christ is the most especiall obiect of our Faith and the primary Foundation of all the other for they haue all reference vnto him being such as concerne either His Father or His spirit or His incarnation or His office of mediation or His Church or the speciall benefits which he hath purchased for it And also all the Articles as they build vs vpon the Foundation and as they incorporate vs into the mysticall Body or as they are meanes of our Iustification and life they looke vpon the sonne of God and him onely Also we must not onely know the originall cause of our saluation but also our need therof by knowledge of our originall and actuall sinnes which deserue damnation and the meanes to communicate this saluation vnto vs the Church the Ministery preaching sacraments and the dueties which we must do For rom 10.14 how can we know God or pray to him without beleeuing or beleeue without hearing or heare without preaching or haue preaching except Preachers be sent from God by meanes of the Church or know our duties without Gods comandments Mat. 15.9 Faith is necessary Rom. 4.14 gal 2.21 hebr 11.6 so is new birth Joh. 3.5 2. cor 5.17 Ioh. 13.8 Repentance luc 13.3 Deniall of our selues luc 9.23.24 c. §. 5. But how farre these Fundamentall principles which are absolutely necessare to saluation must extend is a Question of some difficulty The Apostles contented themselues in conuerting the Jewes to Christian Religion to teach them that Christ Iesus was the Sauiour of the world and that Saluation was to be had onely by Repentance from Dead works and Faith in him For that he was the very Messias foretold by the Patriarks and Prophets had died for our sinnes and rose againe for our Iustification They mentioned not God the Father Creator and Preseruer of the world nor the doctrine of the Trinity and other things which the hearers knew before without any new teaching being Jewes and well acquainted with the Olde Testament but presupposing they were grounded in these points before they layd the foundation of the New Testament to wit Saluation by Iesus Christ onely B. Vsher in his Sermon at Wansted 1624 And Bellarmin also lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 11. alleadge these examples to this purpose which when the people receiued and beleeued they presently baptized them and receiued them into the Congregation of Christs flocke Thus did Sant Peter Acts 2. and Acts 3. and Acts. 4.10 11 12. The like course was vsed by Phillip to
cause of the Popes primacy and power is the greatest of all other as himselfe saith it is De summa rei Christianae the summe totall of Christianity depends vpon it In it the question is whether the Church shall stand any longer or bee dissolued and fall to nothing for what is it else to demand whether wee may not take the foundation from the building the Sheephard from the Flocke the Generall from the Army the Sunne from the Starres the head from the body but to aske whether we may not let the building fall the Flocke be scattered the Army dispersed the Stars obscured the body lye dead Bellarm. ibid. Therefore secondly to make this piece of the stately height wealth and magnificence of the Papacy which is forsooth the foundation of Religion most strong the choycest men for wit learning and all other habilities haue beene set on worke to doe their vttermost to maintaine it of which Bellarmine reckoneth the chiefest of sundry Countries In Polonia one in France two in Germany fiue in Low Germany six in England six in Spaine six in Italy eight in Graecia two And thirdly if there be any strength in any of their writings Bellarmine hath it and sets it out to the vttermost therefore if thou finde him weake know for certainty there is no strength in the cause He musters indeed Scriptures and Fathers and rangeth them into goodly rankes but all ad Pompam rather than ad pugnam For neuer a one of them strikes a sufficient blow for him nor against vs. Against his vrging of the place of Math. 16. when he hath with all his wit stretched it as farre as he can he is faine to admit three exceptions of the Protestantâ— which ouerthrow all that he would proue First that as Christ asked not of Peter onely but of all Whâ—m say yee that I am Peter answered for all Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God for all could not speake at once neither was it decent one must be the speaker So also Christ replyed vpon him as vpon all and therefore what was spoken vnto him belonged to them all And thus the ancient Fathers interpret it Chrysostome vpon the place and Ierome and Austine as Bellarmine himselfe h Be lar de pont lib. 1. cap. 12 §. Secunda obâ— citeth them and reciteth their words neither saith he any thing to auoid their testimonies but addeth this onely Peter answered for all as the Prince and Head of all which in the true sence wee deny not neither makes it any thing for them Secondly the Protestants say It was not vpon Peters person but vpon Peters faith which was the saith of all the Apostles whereupon Christ would build his Church to wit That Christ was the Sonne of the liuing God that is the great Messias promised from the beginning the Sauiour of the world Thus the Fathers also teach as Bellarmine i ib cap 10. §. quarta senten confesseth Hilarius k lib 6. de Trin. Ambrose l lib 6 cap. 9. in Luk Chrysostome m Hom. 55 in Mat 83. iâ— Mat. Cyrill n ib. 1. de Trin. Hee might haue added also Augustine o De â—erbâ—s â— om serm â—â— who saith The Rocke is Christ not Peter vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed vpon this Rocke which thou hast knowne saying Thou art Christ the son of the liuing God will I build my Church I will build thee vpon mee not mee vpon thee c. but this your Doctor Stapleton o De â—erbâ—s â— om serm â—â— p Princip doctr lâ—b â— cap â— See 〈…〉 Hâ—â—t pag â—0 â—â— calleth humanus lapsus in Saint Austin To all this Bellarmine saith they meant not Peters faith without some relation to his person What is this to the purpose This wee admit both in him and in all the Apostles their persons may bee said to bee foundations in some sort as in Ephes 2.20 Reuel 21.14 yet that is in regard of the Faith and Doctrine which they taught the subiect and substance whereof was Iesus Christ Thirdly the Protestants alleadge that whatsoeuer was promised to Saint Peter in the 16. of Matthew was certainly performed to all in Ioh. 20.23 where Christ said to all the Apostles Whose-soeuer sinnes yee remit they are remitted and whose-soeuer sinnes ye retaine they are retained And this the Fathers also plentifully teach q Cypr. de simplicitate praelatorum siue de vnitate Eccl. Cyprian r Hilari lib. 6. de Trinit Hilary Å¿ Hieron lib. 1. ad Iouinianum At inquit dicis super Petrum fundatur ecclesià licet id ipsum in alio loco superomnes Apo â—olos siat cuâ—cti accipâ—ant c. Ierome and Saint Augustine in many places hath the like All which t Ib. lib. 1 c. 12. § Obiâ—â—tio vltima Bellarmine confesseth adding still lest he say nothing that yet Peter was a chiefe man among the rest which is not the question and none of vs denies it Thus he granteth first that what was there spoken to Peter belonged to all the rest secondly that the Church was built vpon Peters Faith which was the common faith of all the Apostles and not vpon Peters person either wholly or principally and thirdly that which there was promised to Peter was afterward performed to them all and so this place of Mat. 16. makes nothing to the end for which your men so often and so gloriously alleadge it Antiq. Were it not that I see it with mine eyes and read the whole tract aduisedly I should neuer haue beleeued that Bellarmine had yeelded thus much but yet he doth it with modifications Antiquis Hee must needs make some flourishes to satisfie his owne side but you see the substance of the matter is flat against him But note what he grants further u Bellar de Pont Rom li. â— cap. 11. §. Alterum arg Peter was made the foundation of the Church by those words of Christ Mat. 16.18 vpon this Rock will I build my Church so all the Apostles were foundations and all the three wayes that Peter was First as efficient causes by founding and planting Churches some in one Country and some in another for x Rom. 15.20 Paul would not build vpon another mans foundation and y 1 Cor 3.10 he layd the foundation in Corinth and another built thereon And thus were all the Apostles equally the foundations of the Catholike Church Reuel 21.14 Secondly as materiall causes by their Doctrine first reueiled vnto them by the Lord and then taught by them in all Churches which was pure without mixture of error infallible being inspired by the holy Ghost and sufficient both for true faith and holy life whereupon the Church for euer was to rest without need of any addition And thus is the Church built equally vpon all the Apostles z Ephes 2.20 And in this Saint Peter was no greater then the rest nor
but one yeere and three months After him succeeded Romanus 1. Who abrogated the decrees and acts of Steuen and reygned but three months then came Theodorus 2. who restored also Formosus his acts and followers liuing Pope but twenty dayes Then succeeded Iohn 9. Platina cals him Iohn the tenth who fully restored the acts of Formosus and abrogated Steuens confirming all by a Councell Notwithstanding all this Sergius 3. restored Steuen and condemned Formosus agayne admitted them to priesthood againe whom Formosus had deposed and whom Formosus had ordered hee againe degraded and caused them to take new Orders and againe tooke vp Formosus his body out of the sepulcher beheaded it and cast the body into Tyber as vnworthy the honour of buriall Whereupon saith Baronius l Baron anno 908. one Auxilius then wrote a dialogue betwixt Infensor and Defensor against this inbred discord of the Romish Church and of the Popes ordinations exordinations and supeâ—-ordinations c. m Nauclerus generat 31. initio Thus were Saint Peters successors whirled about not with the spirit of godlinesse but with the spirit of giddinesse Vertigo rotabat Petri successores saith Krantzius n Krantzius Metrepolis l. 2 c. 22. Martin Polon Nanclerus ib. saith there were 8. Popes in one King Lodowicks time who reygned not aboue 12 yeeres and the head of the Church was long without a brayne Where was then the infallibility of these Popes iudgement in the gouernment of the greatest affayres of the Church where was their charity and holinesse nay where was ordinary honesty ciuility or humanity Here was indeed a most bestiall rage reaching not onely to the death-bed but to the graue with digging vp bones dismembring dead carkasses derogating from their persons abrogating their acts disanulling their ordinations disgracing their Fauorites degrading the Prelats by their predecessors preferred Pope against Pope one head of the Church against another and Councells against Councells setting the world in amaze dissoluing religion and gouernment that men knew not what to thinke nor what to doe Where was the vnity of minde and peace among inferiours when the heads were so brainsicke or so hare-braind or rather wolfe-braind Antiq. Enough enough you haue wearied and stuncke mee out indeed with these filthy storyes which I would neuer haue beleeued had you not turned mee to their owne authours to reade them with mine owne eyes But it is most admirable that God did yet preserue his Church by such wicked instruments for you know the doctrine and sacraments deliuered by Iudas were good and profitable though hee was wicked Antiquiss o Genebrard quo supra â— tanto numero pontificuÌ„ quinque modò satis tenuiter landatur Our Sauiour in chusing Iudas had a purpose to saue vs by working good out of his treason but had hee chosen ten Iudasses for one or two good Apostles the world would haue muttered at him as improuident Your Genebrard reports of 50 Popes Apostaticall together and scarce fiue of them any whit Apostolicall and doubtlesse hee speakes the best for his owne side and the after times grew worse rather than better Also though the ministeriall acts being ordinary and receiued of the Apostles you will say might bee effectuall though wicked men performe them which to deny is contrafidem and so condemnes them that abrogated Formâ—sus his ordinations p Bellar. de Rom. pont l. 4 cap. 2. § vigesimus sept §. sed obiicies yet their infallibility being an extraordinay priuiledge in things not ordered by the Apostles hath no probability at all but rather the crossing one of another in their Decrees and in their Counsells called and confirmed by themselues vtterly confutes it §. 4. Antiq. These things you draw in à latere sidelings shew mee some Popes that haue directly and facto indeed erred in the Faith and then I shall thinke them fallible See D. Field Church booke 5. cap. 43. Bellar. de Rom pont lib 4. Antiquis Bellarmine himselfe yeelds you enow though he labour with all his art and wit to excuse all for some haue erred too grossely to be excused too manifestly to be denied 1 Pope Gregory 3. Ex ignorantia lapsus est saith Bellarmine i Bellar. ib c 12. §. sed contra hoc est c. when he permitted a man to take a second wife his first yet liuing but vnable to pay her debt vnto him and taught that in some case a man might with the license of his wife marry another and so haue two at once which indeed is false doctrine and so defined by the Councell of Trent sels 24. can 2. 2 ib cap. 8. §. Decimus est Marcellinus 2 Pope Marcellinus beyoÌ„d decreeing proceeded to fact sacrificed to Idols teaching Idolatry and Hetheamsme by fact and example But it was for feare of death saith Bellarmine And 3 ib. cap. 9. 3 Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrian heresie set his hand against Athanasius wrote wicked Epistles but saith Bellarmine it was for feare of death or torments A man may by the same reason excuse Peters deniall of Christ and say it was no sinne if this was no error Pope Vigillus wrote to the Empresse 4 ib. cap. 10. and to the heretikes confirming their heresie and cursing the Catholike teachers that confessed two natures in Christ wicked letters vnworthy a Christian man But saith Bellarmine hee did it for desire of the Papacy and in great strayts into which his ambition had cast him As though wicked affections could excuse mens errours Pope Honorius was condemned for an heretike 5 ib. cap. 11. by the sixt generall Councell and againe by the seuenth and in an Epistle of Pope Leo but all these were corrupted saith Bellarmine or misinformed See this man liuing but yesterday knowes better than whole Councels Popes and authors liuing in that age and is bold to accuse whole generall Councels of corruption to keepe one Pope from corruption Pope Celestine 3. 6 ib. cap. 14. § cricesimus tertius cannot bee excused from heresie saith their Alphonsus de Castro for teaching that by heresie Matrimony is so farre dissolued that the innocent party may marry againe the contrary whereof is defined by the Councell of Trent Sess 24. Cannon 5. and by Innocent 3. Bellarmine saith This was indeed Celestines opinion but not any decree a poore excuse 7 ib. cap. 14. See many Popes crossing one another in iudgement ex diam etro noted by Erasmus annot in 1 Cor. 7. pag. 373 374. Basilea 1522 cited by B. MortoÌ„ Appeal l. 3. c 15 § 1. p 403. Pope Iohn 22. held opinion that the soules departed came not to see God till after the resurrection Bellarmine answers hee might so hold without danger because yet there had beene no definition of the Church in this point also he purposed to define the question but was by death preuented A slender answer leauing him still infallibly faulty §. 5. Antiq. Sir you
beleeued by as many as shall be saued y In â—ulla juramenti de prosess fidei These 12 new Articles you may see also in the Epistle Dedicatory to B. Iewels workes in euery Church In Onuphrius added to Platina in vita Pij 4. 7 We beleeue that the true God is to be worshipped in Spirit and Truth and according as himselfe hath prescribed and you yeeld that therein we doe well but you adde that he may be analogically relatiuely worshipped by Images and by other Doctrines deuised by Men which are not commanded but sharply reproued by the Scriptures Exod. 20.4 5. Deut. 4.15 16. Mat. 15.9 Mar. 7 3 4.7 Col. 2.18 22 23. God grant we may serue him as himselfe hath prescribed and then we shall be sure to be happy enough See D. Hall Roma irreconciliabilis sect 21. 8 We beleeue we ought to pray with feruency and sincerity of heart with a purpose to forsake all sinne and to serue God truely and with faith and hope to be heard you beleeue so also but you adde wee may pray in an vnknowne tongue without vnderstanding sense or feeling what we say with many repetitions and by number vpon Beads without weight and that such prayers are satâ—sfactory for sin and meritorious of grace You doe not say I hope we ough to pray in a tongue vnknowne but we may doe it So you condemne not our custome lest you condemne Saint Paul also 1 Cor 14.15 c. but onely excuse your owne 9 We beleeue we ought to pray vnto God the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost you yeeld it to be good but you adde not that we are commanded but that we may also pray vnto Angels and Saints deceased But surely the worship and inuocation of Angels is forbidden by the Councell of Laodicaea much more of Saints For they that vrged the worship of Angels alledged that for our better accesse vnto God we we must vse the intercession of Angels as Gods Courtiers and Attendants and this is your reason for your prayers vnto Saints The Councell therefore that forbiddeth the one implieth the prohibition of the other See more of this in Bishop Mortons Protestants Appeal lib. 2. cap. 12. section 1 2 3 4 5 6 c and compendiously sâ—ct 13. 10 We beleeue that our Lord â—esus Christ is our Mediator both of Redemption and intâ—rcession You grant this to be true but you adde vnto him Angels and Saints vpon whose intercession and merits you also in part relye See B. Morton ib. lib. 2. cap. 12. specially sect 10 11 12 13. Perk. â—esor Cath. points 15. 11 We beleeue that the glorified Saints beare most louing â—ffection to the Saints liuing on earth and pray in generall for the Church Militant You beleeue so to but you adde that they heare mens prayers made vnto them pray for particular men and know their wants which hearing and knowledge we say is proper to God alone But your greatest Clerkes cannot determine how the Saints know our hearts and prayers whether by hearing or seeing or presence euery where or by Gods relating or reueâ—ling mens prayers and needs vnto them All which wayes some of your Doctors hold as probable or possible and others deny and and confute them as vntrue Of this see Bishop Morton Appeal lib. 2. cap. 12. sect 5. and lib. 5. cap. 2 sect 2. Perkins reformed Catholicke point 14. 12 We honour Gods Saints deceased as the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and other holy sâ—ruants of God both by reuerend memorials of them praises to God for them and for his benâ—fits to the Church by them and by imitation of their vertues Their true Reliques vertues bookes good workâ—s and eâ—amples we respect with reuerence And their bodily Reliques we despise not but reuerently keepe them if we may without offence This you like well but whereas you further worship the Saints theâ—r Images or Reliques with kneeling Inuocation dedication of Churches and Festiuall dayes and Pilgrimages to their Shrines or Reliques you step too farre into superstition and Idolatry See B. Mortons Appeal lib. 5 cap. 2. sect 3 4 5. and cap. 3. sect Doctor Hall Roma irreconciliabilis section 20. and 21. 13 We beleeue tâ—at man is iustified by the merits and passion of our Sauiour Iesus Christ Antic 11. 1562. you beleeue so too but you aâ—de that he must be further iustified by his owne merits or satisfactions Of Iustification and of Merits see a large discourse afterwards 14 We beleeue also that as Christs most perfect righteousnesse is most necâ—ssary to be imputed vnto vs for our Iustâ—fication so our owne inherent righteousnesse wrought in vs by Gods Spirit for sanctification of life is necessary to saluation and that he is no good Christian that shewes not his true conuersion by the fruits of a good life You cannot mislike this And yet you charge vs that we open a gate to all licentiousnesse of life because we teach that we are not iustified by our owne good works which are farre short of perfection but by Christs righteousnesse imputed vnto vs which alone is most perfect and able to satisfie Gods Iustice and his Law We vrge good workes as much as you as absolute necessary effects of Iustifying grace but not causes thereof saying with S. Bernard They are Via regni non causa regnandi The way whereby we must walke to felicity or else we shall neuer come to it but not the meritorious cause of felicity 15 Yea we vrge good workes more then you doe We teach that in true conuersion a man must be wounded in his conscience by the sense of hâ—s sinnes his contrition must be compungent and vâ—hement brusing breaking renting the heart and feeling the throwes as a woman labouring of Child bâ—fore the new creature be brought forth or Christ truely formed in him It is not done without bitternesse of the soule without study care indignatioâ— râ—uâ—nge 2 Cor. 7 11. But as some Infants are bâ—â—ne with lâ—sse paine to the Mother and some with more so may the new man be regenerated in some with more in some with lesse anxiety of trauell But surely grace is not infused into the heart of any sinner except there be at least so great affliction of spirit for sinne foregoing that he cannot but feele it otherwise he might make a confâ—ssion without contrition Thus we vrge sinners to a true feeling and sorrow for their sinne And for scandalous faults we vrge open sinners to open acknowledgement satisfaction of the Church and to â—ndure the censures thereof and all men to practise the actions of holy deuotion the better to humble and dispose themselues to be more capable of reconciliation with God and to promise and vow amendment of life and set down with themselues the best fitting courses for it See D. Francis White Orthodoxe Faith p. 16. We teach though they must be iustified by Christs merits onely applied and made theirs by faith yet that
vniuersall both in time and place §. 4. See Aug. in Psal 92. continued throughout all Ages and dispersed in all places in which sense onely the Church is Catholicke and one then it is a point of faâ—th and not of sight For it is visible totally at any one time or place to any mortall eyes Some part thereof being in Europe some in Asia some in Africa for place some part in heauen triumphant some on earth militant some not yet in the world for time We beleeue therefore that there is one Catholicke Church we see but a small part of it that is one vniuersall company of Christians spread ouer the whole earth and continuing from the Apostles times till the day of Iudgement part whereof is now in heauen part on earth and part yet to come called to be professors of Gods worship and partakers of his glory through Iesus Christ his sonne And though this whole company be neuer visible to men at once yet some parts thereof liuing vpon earth are alwayes visible to men by their persons and profession some at one time some at another some in one Countrey some in another as the Church of Jerusalem and of Antioch of Rome Corinth Galatia c. In the Apostles times the seuen Churches of Asia in S. Iohns time the Churches of England France and other Nations in our time §. 5. Secondly if you take the Church for the company of Christians liuing in any one particular Age and thereunto apply the propheticall promises you must admit a threefold distinction one of the parts of the Church another of the promises appliable to the seuerall parts and a third of the times wherein they are to be fulfilled For a D. VVhite Reply to Fisher pag. 52. most of the promises though in generall termes made to the Church in common to shew what the whole is in respect of Gods outward vocation or what the office and duty of the whole Church is yet doe appertaine formally and indeed onely to the better part of the common subiect As your owne Doctors teach b Cornel. de â—apide com Esa cap. 2. v. 4 Cum Deus aliquid Synagoga vel Ecclesiae permittit quamvis amplâ— vniuersal bus vâ—rbis â—â— tamen de bonis proba tantum qui saeâ—â—s amicitiam cum deo promittente paâ—iscente seruant intelligendum The Scriptures giue vs a distinction of the Called and Chosen saying Many be called but few chosen Mat. 20.16 The Called are the Professors and the Profâ—ssors saith your c Bellar. de Ecclesâ— militant lib. 3. cap. 2. §. nostra autem sententia Bellarmine are the members of the true Church though they be reprobi scelesti impij reprobates wicked and impious For saith he to be a member of the Church there is not necessarily required any inward vertues but onely outward profession But I hope you will not say that to this company in grosse these promises doe belong of purity vnspottednesse eternall life but onely to the better part thereof that is the Chosen that truely beleeue and holily liue according to Christs doctrine which company because who they are is onely knowne to God the discerner of the hearts and not to men who see onely their persons and profession but not their hearts may well be called in respect of men The invisible Church as visible to God onely The Holy Ghost describing the true members of the Church calls them such as should be saued Acts 2.47 The Lord added to the Church such as should be saued And this is the ordinary doctrine of d Aug. de Bapt. contra Donatisâ—as lib. 6. cap. 3. Auari raptores faencratores inuidi malevoli ad sanctam ecclesiam dei non pertinent quamvis esse videantur illa autem columba vnica pudica casta sponsa sine macula ruga hortus conclusus sons signatus paradisus cum fructu pomorum c. non intelligitur nisi de bonis sanctis iustis intimâ—m supereminentem spiritus sancti gratiam habentibus S. Augustine that true godly men such as shall be saued are the only heires of the promises the couetous rauenous vsurers enuious malevolous do not belong to the holy Church of God though they seeme to be in it That onely Doue that chaste and pure Spouse without spot or wrinkle that garden inclosed fountaine sealed paradise of Pomegranats c. is not vnderstood but of the good holy and iust such as haue the inward and supereminent grace of the holy spirit Thus Saint Augustine Againe e Aug. ib. lib. 7. cap. 51. he saith All things considered I thinke I shall not rashly say that some are so in the house of God that they are also the very house of God which is said to be built vpon a Rocke which is called his onely Doue his faire Spouse without spot or wrinckle c. for this is in the good faithfull The like De vnitate eccle cap. vlt. Epist 48. De Bapt. cort Donat. lib. 5. c. 27. in praesatione in Psal 47. De doctr Christiana lib. 3. cap. 22. In the rules of Tychonius De corpore Domini bipartito and holy seruants of God euery where dispersed and yet conioyned in spirituall vnity and in the same communion of the Sacraments whether they know one another by face or not And it is certaine that others are said so to be in the house that they belong not ad compagem domus to the frame of the house nor to the society of fruitfull peacefull righteousnesse but as the chaffe among the Corne c of whom it is said They departed from vs but they were not of vs. In many other places Saint Austen hath the like Insomuch as Bellarmine being ouerpressed with the Scriptures and Fathers and especially Saint Augustine §. 6. cannot but yeeld and saith in plaine tearmes f Bellar. de eccle milit lib 3 cap. 2. §. notaâ—dum autem that wicked men without any internall vertue are no otherwise members of the Church then our excrements and diseases are parts or members of our bodies as our hayres our nayles and euill humours in our bodies and elsewhere g Ib. cap. 9. §. Ad vltimum aâ—o malos non esse membra viva corporis Christi hoc significari illis scripturis obiectis He saith that euill men are no other then dead members of Christs body and hee citeth many learned Papists that say Malos non esse membra vera nec simpliciter corporis ecclesiae sed tantum secundum quid aequivocè That euill men are not true members nor simply of the body of the Church but onely after a sort and equiuocally His Authors alleadged there are Iohannes de Turrecremata Alexander de Ales Hugo B. Thomas Petrus à Soto Melchior Canus alij I will conclude this point with Saint Augustine who saith h Aug lib. 2. contra Creâ—conium
Protestant Church hath euermore beene so visible as the Church of Christ ought to be Subsection 1. § 1. for it hath euermore taught the same doctrine which the Scriptures and the Fathers taught § 2. As appeares by Irenaeus Tertullian and the Creedes But § 3. The Romists Cannot alleadge the Fathers for their new Doctrines Now proue your Protestant Church to haue beene so visible in all Ages as the Church of Christ ought to be or else you haue said nothing Antiquissimus It might be sufficient according to your owne Valentinianus to shew that our Church was sometime in some few and them hidden as the woman in the Wildernesse Reuel 12.6 and vnknowne to the greatest part of the world which weighed not times and things wisely and was slandered by the persecutors thereof as a false Church But I will not take all aduantages but giue you a full visibility thereof at all times Subsection 1. First I say §. 1. our Church for the doctrine thereof is the same which the Primitiue Church of Christ was for many ages For neither it nor ours taught any other points of faith necessary to saluation then such as are contained in plain places of the Scripture or necessarily deducted from them by good consequence When the Fathers are vrged against Bâ—llarmine in this point he yeeldeth 1 De verbo De lib. 4 cap. 11. §. his notatis that whatsoeuer the Apostles publikely taught to the people which was necessary all that they wrote 2 De iustific lib. 3. cap. 8. §. prima ratio This I haue proued more fully cap. That nothing can be certaine to be beleeued with the certainty of faith but what is immediately contained in the Word of God or thence deducted by euident consequence Now it is our Generall course to examine all doctrines by the Scriptures holding the Scriptures the vndoubted Oracles of God for the ground of all our beleefe King Iames praemonition to all Christian Monarks pag. 35 36. as the Fathers did and holding the true sense of the Scriptures as it is deliuered for all fundamentall points in the three Creeds and in the foure first generall Councells and the vniforme consent of the ancient Fathers In which is contained the full instruction for saluation and the vnity of the Catholicke Church §. 2. Jrenaeus Bishop of Lions in France liuing within 200 yeeres of our Sauiour a disciple of those that heard Saint Iohn the Apostle writing against the Heretickes Valentinians Gnosticks and others layeth downe in his first booke and 2 chapter no other Articles of faith and grounds of Religion then our ordinary Catechisme teacheth and in his third chapter sheweth that in the vnity of that faith all the Churches of Germany France Spaine the East Egypt Libya and all the world were founded therein they sweetly accorded as if they all dwelt in one house had all but one soule one heart and one mouth and this ground he laies for the confutation of all Heresies 〈…〉 â—b â—e praescript aduersâ—s heretiâ—o folâ—o qâ—arto The like doth Tertullian liuâ—ng 200 yeeres after Christ He giues the funâ—amâ—ntall points of Religion gathered out of the Scriptures and deliuered by the Churches the same which our Church deliuereth and no other for the rule of faith See King Iames Pâ—aemonition pâ—g 35. The three famous Creeds named the Apostles Athanasius and the Nicene Creeds ordayned for rules of Christians beleefe and badges differencing them from Infidels and Hereticks we hold intirely and firmely and proclaime them ordinarily in our Churches And whatsoeuer the Fathers held vniformely and agreed vpon as necessary to be beleeued vnto saluation we doe with reuerence receiue But the particular or priuate opinions which any of them held different from other Fathers doe not binde vs now more then those other Fathers then or the Romans at this present The foure first generall Councels with reuerence we receiue as Orthodoxe See B. Andrew Ad Bellarmine Apologiam Responsio cap. 7. pag. 161. and so they are acknowledged by our Church and by our Acts of Parliament The following Councels are subiect to some exceptions We therfore holding the same points of faith which the Primitiue Fathers held vniformely to be necessary to saluation and holding no other points that doe any way crosse or weaken them may iustly challenge them for our predecessors and their Church and ours in point of doctrine to be all one Antiquus §. 3. We challenge the same Fathers to bee ours also and we deduce both our Bishops and doctrine by good succession from them which you cannot doe But I require not of you a discourse of those times which either of vs lay alike claime vnto but of the times nearer vnto Luther Shew mee any visible Church in the world that held Luthers doctrine for 500. yeeres next before Luthers time Antiquissimus You may challenge the Primitiue Fathers for the points wherein you and we agree as the Canonicall Scriptures the doctrine of the Trinity in Vnity Baptisme and such like But you cannot challenge them to be yours in those additions and corruptions which they neuer knew and which you haue brought into the Church in later times and which make the great difference betwixt you and vs as the worshipping of Images the Popes pardons priuate Masses or Communion without communicating halfe Communions without the Cup the Popes transcendent supremacy and such like §. 4. But in calling vs to these later times you are good disciples of the Poet Horace who in his Arte Poetica saith A witty Poet must vse this Art The point which he hath no hope to burnish faire and bright he must leaue vntouched Et quae desperat tractata nitescere posse relinquit This is good Poetry indeed in them but pitifull Diuinity in you to leaue the best times and purest patternes and draw vs to the worst But Sectionis 2. Subsectio 2. § 1. Propounding 1 the Easternt and Greeke Churches 2 the Waldenses c. And 3 the Roman Church it selfe misliking and groaning vnder the tyranny of the Papacy and desiring reformation § 2. The Greeke Church condemned by the Romish as Hereticall § 3. Js cleered by Scotus Lombard Aquinas and others Now presupposing you yeeld vs those best times wherein our Church was very gloriously visible wee follow you to the worst Wherein you propose vnto you first the spacious and famous Churches of Grecia D. Field of the Church booke 3. cap. 5. Armenia Aethiopia and Russia which holding the same rule of faith which we hold and beleeuing all points absolutely necessary to saluation as we beleeue and refusing the same corruptions of the Church of Rome which we refuse were the same with our Church true Churches of God notwithstanding some defects errours and diuisions among them which stayned their beauty and hindered their perfection but did not cut them off from possibility of saluation And so for ought I know they continue till this
Iosephists Esperonists Arnoldists Wiclifists Hussits c. to omit other nick-names giuen them vpon other causes § 3 And now secondly that they were our fore-runners in the points of Religion wherein we differ from you your Writers shew plentifully a Hist Waldens Book 1. cap. 8. Aeneas Sylvius and Iohn du Bravius in their histories of Bohemia make the doctrine taught by Calvin all one with that of the Waldenses And the same Sylvius saith b Aeneas Sylv. hist Bohem. cap. 35. The Hussites did imbrace the opinions of the Waldenses And Hosius heres lib. 1. saith the leprosie of the Waldenses infected all Bohemia Lindanus in his Analyticke Tables makes Caluin inheritor of the Doctrine of the Waldenses Thomas Walden c VValden lib. 6. de reb Sacram. tit 12. cap. 10. saith The doctrine of the Waldenses crept out of the quarters of France into England meaning by Wiclife against whom he wrote d D. Vsher Gravis quaest cap. 8. §. 1. Poplinerius saith The Waldenses and Albigenses about the yeere 1100 and the succeeding times spread their doctrine parum differentem little differing from that which the Protestants now imbrace Lancelotus du voisin Poplinerius histor Franc. lib. 1. fol. 7. b. edit anno 1581. e Ib. cap. 9. §. 22. Gretserus the Iesuite calls the Albigenses Waldenses and Berengarians Caluinianorum atavos the Caluinists great grandfathers Gretser prolegâ—m in scripta edita contra Wald. cap. 5. f D. Abbot against Hill Reason 1. §. 18. Francis Guicciardin an Italian and Florentine Historian writing of the yeere 1520. lib. 13. saith that Luther set abroad the doctrine of the Bohemians naming Hus and Hierom. And Petrus Messias a Spaniard in the life of Wenceslaus mentioning the opinions of Hus and the Bohemians saith They were the seed of those errours as he cals them which were afterwards in Germany to wit taught by Luther g Ib. §. 29. And Iohannes Cocleus a man that had laboured in the story of the Hussites and set out bookes thereof and also wrote sharpely against Luther saith that Hus did commit spirituall fornication with many aliens with the Wiclivists the Dulcinists the Leonists the Waldenses the Albigenses and others of that sort enemies of the Church of Rome And he saith that Luther followed Hus his Doctrine lib. 2. de Actis scriptis Lutheri And cals the Lutherans new Hussites And againe lib. 3. and lib. 8. he saith that vnto his time till Luthers time and after there remained the sect of the Thaborites in many places of Bohemia and Moravia vnder the name of Picards and Waldenses h Histor Albigens lib. 1. cap. 8. Eckius in his common places cap. 28. saith Luther had done nothing else but renew the heresies of the Waldenses Albigenses Wiclife and Iohn Hus. § 4 Antiquus Sir our men deny not but these Waldenses and others were Luthers fore-runners in many things but they held some things which you are ashamed to hold and therefore were not of your Church or Religion Antiquissimus I know well that many errours were imputed to them which they neuer held As i B. Vsher Grauiss quaest cap. 10. §. 15. Bernardus Girardus the French Historian lib. 10. saith Although they had some ill opinions yet these did not so much stirre vp the hatred of the Pope and great Princes against them as their freedome in speech which they vsed in blaming and reprouing the vices dissolute manners life and actions of Princes Ecclesiasticall persons and the Pope himselfe That was the chiefe thing which drew the hatred of all vpon them effecit vt plures nefarie affingerentur eis opiniones à quibus omnino fuerant alieni this caused many wicked opinions to be deuised and fathered of them from which they were very free and guiltlesse k Ib. cap. 8. §. 28. Thuanus histor lib. 5. anno 1550. reckons vp their opinions thus They held that the Church of Rome because it had forsaken the true faith of Christ was that Whore of Babylon and that barren tree which Christ cursed and therefore we ought not to obey the Pope and Bishops which fostered his errours that the Monasticall life was the sinke and kennell of the Church the vowes thereof vaine and seruing onely for vnclean lusts that the Priests orders were notes of that beast mentioned in the Reuelation that purgatory fire sacrifice of the Masse Sanctuaries or hallowed places about Churches worshipping of Saints offerings for the dead were the Inuentions of Sathan Then he addeth To these certaine and chiefe heads of their doctrine alia afficta others are fained and deuised concerning Mariage resurrection the state of soules after death and of Meates l B. Iewel Apol. cap. 1. diuis 1. Bishop Jewell saith our ancient Christians were slandered that they made priuy meetings in the darke killed yong babes fed themselues with mens flesh and like Sauage and brute beasts did drinke their blood In conclusion how that after they had put out the Candles they committed adultery or incest one with another brethren with sisters sonnes with theiâ— mothers without shame or difference men without all Religion enemies of mankind vnworthy to be suffered in the world Thus they said of the ancient Christians and thus they said of the Waldenses most vniustly and vntruely of both you doubt not of the former let many of your owne Writers satisfie you of the later m Vsher grav qu. cap. 6. §. 11. Rainerius whose booke Gretserus the Iesuite lately set out among other Writers of the Waldenses saith The Waldenses were the most dangerous sect to the Church of all other for three causes the third whereof is that whereas other sects through the outragiousnesse of blasphemy against God worke a horrour in men this sect of the Leonists hath a great shew of piety because before men they liue iustly and of God they beleeue all things piously and hold all the articles contained in the Creed onely they blaspheme and hate the Roman Curch for which the multitude is easie to beleeue n Hist â—ald booke 1. cap. 5. Iacobus de Riberia in his collections of the Citie of Tholous saith the Waldenses wonne all credit from the Priests and made them little esteemed by the holinesse of their liues and excellency of their doctrine The like saith Rainerius cited ib. De forma haeret fol. 98. And Clauâ—ius de Scissel Archbishop of Turin saith they liued vnreproueably without reproach or scandall among men cited ib. In his Treatise against the Waldenses The B. of Canaillon sent a certaine Monke a Diuine Vesembec Oration of the Waldenses citat ib. to conferre and conuince the Waldenses of Merindal in Prouince who vpon his returne said He had not so much profited in all his life in the Scriptures as hee had done in those few dayes conference with the Waldenses Wherevpon the Bishop sent diuers Doctors to confound them but vpon their returne one of them said with a
know the Catholikes haue many distinctions The Pope may erre in manners but not in doctrine in matters of fact but not in Faith in person but not in office before hee be fully setled as Vigilius but not confirmed in his seate in the premisses but not in the conclusion by way of conference but not in determining in a priuate letter but not in a Decretall Epistle in his chamber but not in his Consistory in his pallace but not in the Pulpit In a word he may erre as a man but not as Pope Antiquis Your men like the Foxe being hunted out of one hold flie to another their distinctions are but meere euasions and illusions to gull the world withall Their first hold was that the Pope could not erre at all neither ought to bee iudged by any man but being driuen from that hold they flye to another He may erre in manners or in matter of fact but not in matters of doctrine or faith Well wee driue them from that also for Gregory 3. Liberius Vigilius Honorius Celestine and Iohn erred in points of Faith Then they flie to another hold they erred in Faith indeed but yet as men onely not as Popes I thinke our learned King Iames hunts them from this hold also King Iames Remonstrance to Card. Peron pag. 99. in demanding wherefore then doth not the Pope instruct and informe the man or wherefore doth not that man require the Popes instruction shall we say that Esay and Daniel might sinke into heresie as men but not as Prophets would not the man Esay consult with the Prophet Esay to be free from error if he cannot assure himselfe how shall hee assure vs of his freedome from error I adde that the world by such distinction is gulled and abused Bellar. de Pont. Rom. l. 4 c. 2. §. Deinde catholici pontificem solum siue errare posset siue non esse ab omnibus fideliâ—s obedienter audienâ—um for the Romists labouring to proue their Pope infallible onely in some few things would haue the world obey him in all things Some of them draw his infallibility into a narrow scantling first he must enter canonically else hee is not a true Pope and so wants the priuiledge secondly hee is free from error onely when he sets himselfe as Pope to decree matters of Faith and thirdly to the end to teach or guide the whole Church and fourthly See Greg. Val. Analysis fidei lib. 8. totum Specially ca 4. 10. Bellar. de Pont. Rom. l. 4. c. 2. â— quarta opinio c. proceedeth aduisedly and maturely vsing all due meanes to finde out the truth Into these narrow limits straits some are compelled all are compellable to bound the Popes infallibility by the manifest histories of their errors both in fact Doctrin both as men as Popes in euery degree But obserue I pray you whether it bee likely that the Pope vsing all these meanes be infallible for would he not then vse them and quickly cut off all contentions would hee suffer troublesome controuersies among his owne people to be endlesse The Dominicans following Thomas teach that the Virgin Mary was conceiued in originall sinne Archb. Abbot against Hil. pag. 110. Bedels letters pag. 52. Concil Basi sess 36. the Franciscans following Scotus teach the contrary and these two families like the Guelfes and Gibelines are at mortall feood for the point the Councell of Basil was troubled with it and decreed on the Franciscans side the Dominicans excepted against it as a Councell not lawfully called and the dissention continued still so great that to quiet all Pope Sixtus was fayne to make a decree and command that the question should not be disputed of afterwards and yet they are still hot in it vpon any occasion and Bellarmine Bellarmine himselfe hath lately disputed it and leaues it with a piè creditur on the Franciscans side Why did not the Pope decide this and giue perfect vnity to his Church whereof there are so great brags and that other also of Grace and Free will betwixt Dominicans and Iesuits and all other controuersies whereof their books are ful so that their exactest writers Suarez and others spend more leaues in confuting their own men then vs May it not be suspected they know well enough that this infallibility of the Pope is but a meere fiction shadow so that the Pope dare not trust himselfe to determine such matters wherin witty learned men are engaged lest they fall to quarrell and deny not onely his infallibility but authority and therefore it is obserued he seldome proceeds to determine such questions Obserue againe that if the Pope be onely infallible when he vseth such meanes it argueth there is no diuine inspiration extraordinary from the holy Ghost proper to the Pope but onely Gods ordinary assistance vpon the vse of the meanes promised to all Gods seruants And so is hee no more infallible than another man Obserue thirdly that the world hath no sufficient meanes to be assured that such was the Popes entrance and such meanes vsed by him that all men may without hesitation obey him Pighius lib. 4. hierarch eccl c. 8 Valentia Anaâ—ysis fidei part 8. cap. 10. Bellar. de Pont. Rom l. 4 c. 10. To auoyd all inconueniences Bellarmine and Gregoririus de Valentia teach that whether the Pope in defining vse diligence or no hee shall define infallibly Well but yet how shall we know whether he be a true Pope or no Entring canonically without simony violence or other euill meanes for Vigilius erred most heretically saith Bellarmine because hee was not yet true Pope truely setled though he carried himselfe as Pope and many Popes were rather Apostaticall than Apostolicall saith your Genebrard because the Emperours put them in vncanonically it seemes and there haue beene often two and sometimes three Popes together when the world could not know which was the true Pope Anno à Christonato 13â— Ã Christo passo 1000. Greg. Heymburgensis in Confutat Primat Papae part 2. citatus a Iacabo Vsserio De ChristianaruÌ„ Ecclesiarum successione statu c. 4. §. 19. Three Popes sate all at once in seuerall places in Rome Benedict 9. Syluester and Gregory 6. of whom an Heremite wrote thus to the Empâ—rour Imperator Henrice Omnipotentis vice Vna Sunamitis Nupsit tribus maritis Dissolâ—e connubium Et triforme dubium But to let this passe miserable is the state of that people that is ouer-ruled by your distinctions to obey the Pope without distinction For example Suppose there comes a Breefe Bull or Decree from the Pope enioyning his Catholicks to refuse the oath of allegiance to their naturall Prince as from Paul the fift to the English by which refusall they shall bee suspected to bee Traytors in heart and all the Kingdome shall bee iealous of them that vpon any occasion they will bee ready to cleaue vnto the Pope or to any that
Religion in this point Antiq. I must needs doe so and I doe not thinke them true Catholikes that hold and practise this point of Supremacy Papists they may bee as you terme them for so holding with the Pope but Catholikes they cannot be for this Doctrine is not Catholike §. 14. Antiquis Doe you not see also how greatly you shake the Popes authority by this meanes and ouerturne the foundation of his Supremacy for your Popes haue both claymed and practised this full authority as well in ciuill and temporall things as in Ecclesiasticall and vpon the same grounds And your learned Doctors thinke their grounds as firme for the one as for the other Your Great Bellarmine vpon whom you so much rely saith o Bellarm. de Pont. Rom l. 5. cap. 6. initio Although the Pope as Pope hath not any more temporall power which other Doctors say he hath yet so farre as it may make for the spirituall good he hath supreme power to dispose of the temporall things of all Christians And p Ib. cap. 7. hee labours to proue that the Pope may depose Princes and dispose of their kingdomes if he finde it good for the Church as a sheephard may deale with Wolues and vnruly Rammes and other sheepe And many of your Doctors haue the like as Eudaemon Ioannes Sidonius Suarez Becanus Mariana Grotzerus Costerus Baronius Sanders Allen and thousands more Antiq. I am very sorrowfull that so great learned men should hold such an opinion I hold them erroneous and euill Antiquis Then you must confesse that the Church of Rome may erre and that in a maine point both of doctrine and practise to the great hurt of the Catholike Church and many mens destruction both of body and soule in being traytors and rebels against their Soueraignes and murderers of people of which crimes your Popes and Doctors are guilty Antiq. I must needs grant that some haue erred in the Church but not the whole Church neither I hope hath any Pope taught this Ex Cathedra Antiquis This some is a large some the greatest part of your Church and I thinke the Pope teacheth it Ex Cathedra when hee decrees it out of his Pontificall iudgement and authority and sends out his iudiciall excommunications vnder seale against Princes to depose them as Pius 5. did against our Queene Elizabeth and Breefes to forbid his Catholikes to take the oath of ciuill Alleagiance as Paulus 5. did to our English Now consider well what you grant in effect that the greatest part of the Church yea the most conspicuous and eminent men in the Church and the Pope also may erre in some great and dangerous point and yet because some few inferiour and obscure persons hold the truth the true Church is still sufficiently visible and illustrious This you had not wont to yeeld to the Protestants See card Perons oration in the third inconuenience In K Iamâ—s his Remonstrance p. 183. 187. c. Cardinall Perone dare not grant it but saith this would proue the Church of Rome to be Antichristian and hereticall and to haue ceased to be the Spouse of Christ for a long time and to haue taught many points without authority as Transubstantiation auricular confession c. for these he ranketh with the Popes power to depose Kings and if the Scriptures yeeld no ground for the one no more doe they for the other These and diuerse other points which they hold different from vs haue no other ground but the authority of that Churâ—h which is found to erre in great and dangerous matters See this in B. Whites answer alleadged p. 87 Your owne learned Iesuite Mr Fisher vpon whose iudgement your English Roman Catholikes doe much relye saith Thâ—t if the Church could deliuer by consent of Ancestors together with truth some errors her Traditions euen about the truth were questionable and could not be beleeued vpon the warrant of her Tradition and this he proueth substantially Neither doe we receiue doctines vpon the Churches warrant only as Doctor White there largely learnedly sheweth but vpon their agreeing with the holy Scriptures Now we may assume The Church of Rome doth deliuer by consent of many Ancestors from Gregory 7. time to our times some errours as this concerning her power to depose Kings and dissolue oathes of Alleagiance c. Ergo her traditions or teaching are questionable and cannot be beleeued vpon the account of her Tradition Consequently all other her doctrines not grounded vpon Scripture are questionable and our subiection to her iudgement vnnecessary Antiq. Truly if I grant the former doctrine of her power to depose Kings c. to be erroneous as I must needs grant I know not how to auoyd this reason 1 Booke 1. cap 1. And therefore not to trouble you longer at this time Since you haue shewed me 1. that your Chuch differeth nothing from the Romish Church in the old true doctrine which it continueth but onely in some corruptions which it hath added and that 2. corruptions may in time come into any particular Church the Roman not excepted 2 cap. 2. but warned thereof by the Scriptures 3. 3 cap. 3. shewing also the time when they grew obseruable and notorious in the Roman Church 4 cap. 4. and 4 that they were opposed from time so time and reformation called for 5 cap. 5. shewing also 5. the principall points wherein the difference consists and that you hold all necessary doctrines 6 cap. 6. 6. misliking many policies by them vsed to maintaine their new corruptions And further haue shewed mee Booke 2. that this your Church for the substance of the doctrine thereof hath alwayes beene visible 7. as all one with the Primitiue Church 7 cap. 1. and the Greeke and Easterne Churches and the Waldenses that separated from the corruptions of the Papacy yea and with the Roman Church it selfe excepting the Papacy and the maintainers thereof although in some 8 8 cap. 2. ceremonies and priuate opinions both you and the Romish haue departed from fome Fathers wherin 9. 9 cap. 3 also there was difference among themselues as there is also still among the Roman Doctors And further you haue shewed mee 10. 10. cap 4. a Rule to iudge all Churches and Christians by By which Rule iudged right by the Roman Doctors you approue your selues to hold all things necessary to saluation and thereby to be the true Church of God and agreeing therein with all true Churches that are or euer were in the world yea and that 11. 11 cap 5. your Bishops and Ministers haue as good succession from the Apostles as any other in the world although 12. 12 cap. 6. 13. cap. 7. you admit not the B. of Romes Supremacy ouer al Churches and Christians in the world neither 13. his Infallibility both which you proue to be vnknowne and vnreceiued of the Ancients and 14. 14 cap. 8. both vnprofitable and
and dutifulnesse he much pâ—ttied them r Hist Wald. book 2. cap. 8. And one Guerin an aduocate was hanged for falsely informing the King against them But the Ecclesiastickes persecuted and massacred them cruelly Ibid. cap. 4. In this Kings time the VValdenses sent two of their Pastors one George Morell of Frassiniers in Dauphine the other Peter Masson of Burgundy to the Protestant Ministers to wit to Oecolampadius Minister at Basse to Capito and Martin Bucer at Strasburg and to Berthaud Haller at Berne to conferre with them about some points of Religion where they found so great agreement in their faith with equall mislikes of the Romish corruptions that they much reioyced and praised God that had continued them and their fathers in the truth of that doctrine aboue foure hundred yeeres in in the middest of many troubles as they write The letters passing betweene them are to be seene in the History Å¿ Ibid. cap. 8. lib. 1. cap. 6. The like letters passed betwixt Preachers of the VValdenses and Calvin t To be seene among Calvins Epistles Epist 250. I hope I haue satisfied you concerning these VValdenses first that they were fully of our Religion u Sâ—bsection 3. subsect 1. Secondly that they were in great numbers and made great visible Churches x Subsect 2. Thirdly that they were spread in diuers Countries y Subsect 3. Fourthly that they continued from the time of your great Revolt from the purity of Religion vnto the late and more publike Reformation by M. Luther z Subsect 4. Antiquus Indeed you haue said very much both for the Greeke or East Church that it held your faith and so continueth and also for these Separatists the VValdenses in the West But you * Section 2. subsect 2. mentioned a third part that many continuing in outward communion with the Church of Rome were yet truely of your Faith and Religion let me heare what you say of that part and you shall haue my reply against them all Section 4. § 1. The Church of Rome excepting the Papacy and the maintainers thereof continued to be the Church of God vntill Luthers time proued by many Protestant Diuines § 2. Their Reasons § 3. But now then the state of that Church is much altered since the new light in Luthers time and since fully discouering the corruptions thereof § 4. And since the great alteration made by the Councell of Trent Antiquissimus I say first that I haue already alledged a great number liuing in community with Papists in outward Ceremonies which yet in substance of Religion were ours and not yours as the followers of Wiclifes doctrine and other teachers in all Countries which were innumerable as may appeare by my former Relation many of them being persecuted for it and many other knowne among themselues but concealing themselues from theâ—r persecutors §. 1. B. Vsher B. White Mr. Ric. Hocker But now I say further with D. Field Luther Calvin Beza Morney Melanchthon Bucer Mr. Deering Bishop Carlton and many other learned Protestants that setting aside the pope and Cardinals and their Hierarchy with the maintainers thereof which I account no part of the Church but a domineering faction tyrannizing ouer the Church the Church of Rome consisting of the rest which were innumerable continued to be the Church of God and in substance all one with vs vntill Luthers time Thus teacheth Doctor Field Of the Church Booke 3. chapter 6. And in the 8 chapter he addeth although we doe acknowledge Wiclife Hus Jerom of Prage and the like to haue been the worthy seruants of God and holy Martyrs and Confessors suffering for the cause of Christ against Antichrist yea we doe not thinke that the Church was found onely in them or that there were no other appearance or succession of the Church and Ministery as Stapleton and other of that faction falsely impute vnto vs. For we most firmely beleeue all the Churches in the world wherein our Fathers liued and dyed to haue beene the true Churches of God in which vndoubtedly saluation was to be found and that they which taught embraced and beleeued those damnable errours which the Romanists now defend against vs were a faction onely in the Churches as were they that denyed the Resurrection vrged Circumcision and despised the Apostles of Christ in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia This matter D. Field prosecuteth there and also in the Appendix to the fift booke part 3 pag. 7. Luther is also alleadged by Bellarmine De not is Ecclesiae cap. 16. out of his booke against the Anabaptists we confesse saith Luther that vnder the Papacy there was much good yea all Christian good and it came thence vnto vs the true Scriptures two true Sacraments true keyes for remission of sinnes true office of preaching true Catechisme as are the Lords Prayer the tenne Commandements the Articles of Faith Yea I say moreouer that vnder the papacy was true Christianity yea the very kernell of Christianity Calvin in his fourth booke of Jnstitutions chap. 2. § 11. saith That God suffered not his Church to perish in France Italy Germany Spaine and England hauing made his Couenant with them but it continued there through effectuall Baptisme and other remainders though for mens ingratitude he suffered the building to be much wasted rent and torne Beza in his questions saith The Church was vnder the papacy but the papacy was not the Church Master Perkins hath the like in his Exposition of the Creed pag. 405. edit Cambridge 1596. Morney in his Treatise of the Church chapt 9. In the later end deliuereth the same That vnder the papacy was the Church and Flocke of Christ but gouerned partly by hirelings partly by wolues and that Antichrist held it by the throat the people were of the Christian Common-wealth but the pope with his faction a Catiline to set it on fire whom Cicero fitly calleth a plague and not a part of the Common-wealth borne Ex luxu reipublicae as an impostume or disease is no part of the body but a corruption bringing dammage and death Bucer and Melancthon teach the same Mr. Edward Deering in his Lectures preached in Pauls Church in London vpon the Epistle to the Hebrewes Lecture 23. pag. 374. hath these words In this was the great goodnesse of God that in time to come his children might assuredly know hee reserued to himselfe a Church euen in the middest of all desolation and that hee called them by his word and confirmed by his Sacraments euen as at this day For seeing there could be no sinne so great but faith in Jesus Christ scattereth it all away it was impossible that the man of sinne doth not so much adulterate either the Word of God but that it should be to the faithfull a Gospell of saluation or else the Sacramenta of God but that they should be pledges of eternall life to those that did beleeue And a little after God of his infinite
goodnesse who calleth things that are not as though they were euen in that Ministery gaue grace vnto his Saints Bishop Carlton wrote a booke of purpose entituled Consensus Ecclesiae catholica contra Tridentines to shew that although the doctrine of Christian Religion was much altered in the chiefest Articles of Faith by Fryers yet a great number of godly learned men held the ancient truth and preserued the Church vntill the times of Reformation and that the Reformed Churches still continue the same and are separated onely from the Roman Court so farre as the Roman Court had separated it selfe from the Roman Church and that our Fathers and Ancestors liuing dying in the Roman Church had sufficient meanes to bring them to saluation And this he sheweth in the seuerall discourses of the principall fundamentall points of faith See of this matter also Bishop Vsher De successione Ecclesiarum cap. 6 § 8 9. and his Sermon And Archbishop Abbot against Hill Reason 5. § 28. And Mr. Richard Hookers discourse of Iustification §. 2. Their Reasons are I. The corruptions in the Roman Church sprung not vp all at once nor came to their full height vntill these late yeres and were not so dangerous in their Spring as in their full growth and strength D. Field book 3. chap. 6. Of the Church Append to the 5. booke part 3. pag. 8. c. II. They were not generally receiued by all men nor as the vndoubted determinations of the Church but controuerted and variously disputed among the learned and holden with great liberty of iudgement by the greatest Doctors as appeares by thier owne bookes of Controuersies written by Bellarmine Suares Azorius c. which confute their owne writers as much as they doe Protestants and by those 27 points which D. Field mentions in his Appendixe to the seuenth Chapter of the third booke of the Church printed at the end of the fourth booke for had they beene the vndoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would haue holden them vniformely entirely and constantly as they held the doctrine of the Trinity and other articles of the Faith As long therefore as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall and in other things were suffered to abound in their owne sence there was no such danger in holding the right faith III. Our forefathers held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Saluation by Iesus Christ his merits onely and so were taught ordinarily in their bookes of visitation and consolation of the sicke * As we shall shew in the article of Iustification and they erred onely in points inferiour of lesse moment and danger which defaced indeed and blemished but did not nullifie or take away the beeing of the Church Diseases in the heart braine liuer and vitall parts are dangerous and deadly but wounds or blemishes in the fleshly sensuall or organicall parts onely as the hands feet eares eyes c. doe onely impaire the beauty and actions but endanger not the life nor cut of hope of recouery Greg. Nissen de opific. hom cap. vlt. It is Saint Gregory Nissens Simile So saith he it is with the Church of God and Religion A man is a man while he hath life though he be sore diseased as Naaman was in his leprosie IIII. They misliked and derided as Chawcers plowman many of their ceremonies and idle things as holy water pardons relickes c. and deplored the greater corruptions and abuses and cryed for reformation most readily receiuing it when it came V. In what they erred they erred ignorantly Aug de vtilitate credendi ad Honorat Idem epist 162. ad Donat. with mindes ready to be reformed vpon better information Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretickes and them that beleeue Heretickes And he saith They that defend an opinion false and peruerse without pertinacious animosity especially which not the boldnesse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erroneous Parents they haue receiued and themselues doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to be reckoned among Heretickes This was the case of our fathers vnder the Papacy VI. If any did erre in points fundamentall as long as they denyed not the foundation directly See of this more chap. 4. sect 3. for that is plaine infidelity or apostacy and quite cuts them off from the Church if they did it onely vpon meere ignorance with a mind ready to reforme their errour vpon better instruction those were still the accounted members of the true Church For this was the case of the Corinthians denying the resurrection of the dead 1 Cor. 15.10 and of the Galatians erring dangerously about Iustification Gal. 3.3 4 5. 5.4 whom yet Saint Paul calles Churches of God 1 Cor. 1.2 Gal. 1.2 and doubtlesse he would not haue taken such paines to write vnto them except he had so thought them and had hope to find them tractable and recouerable §. 3. Antiquus Sir I heartily thanke you I need heare no more nor trouble you any longer since you allow the Church of Rome to be the true Church of God wherein saluation may be had and you alledge great Doctors of your owne side and good reasons for it I am satisfied I haue no reason to cleaue to your Church which all our Catholickes condemne for hereticall and schismaticall and to leaue the Roman which you acknowledge to be the true Church wherein saluation is to be had The Roman Church is iustified on all hands by friends and enemies to be safe yours is condemned of all but your selues I will take my leaue See this more at large in D. Field in the places before alledged and B. Carlton Iurisdiction consensus c. Antiquissimus Stay good sir and draw no more out of my words then they yeeld you I spake of the Church of Rome as it was till Luthers time and you conclude of the Church of Rome as it is now Deceiue not your selfe there is great difference betwixt them betwixt the times then and now and betwixt that Church then and now In those times the errours of our forefathers were of meere ignorance what they perceiued to be euill they misliked they desired knowledge they wished many things reformed and gladly embraced reformation when they found it comming But now it is all otherwise now men are admonished of their errours offer is made them to be better instructed and yet either they dote on their owne old opinions vnwilling to be instructed in the reuealed truth or after sufficient knowledge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinately persist in their old errours and which is farre worse they hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith if any of our predecessors Cypr. ep 63. §. 13. either of ignorance or simplicity