was impossible who hath bestowed so great grace vpon vs. S. Siluester as Nycephorus hath recorded speaketh thus of baptisme e Lib. 7. hystor cap. 33. This water hauing receiued by the inuocation of the blessed Trinity heauenly vertue euen as it washeth the body without so doth it within cleanse the soule from filth and corruption and make it brighter then the Sunne-beames So that it is most conformable both vnto the holy Scriptures and the auncient Fathers to affirme and hold that the Sacraments doe really contayne and convay the graces of God into our soules as his true and proper instruments OF SAVING FAITH M. PERKINS Page 305. HEre followeth a Chapter which for the most part doth nothing but repeate points of doctrine which hath beene particularly handled in the questions of Iustification Satisfaction and Merits and aboue twenty times touched by the vvay in his booke therefore a tedious and loathsome thing it is to me here againe to heare of them yet because the man thinketh that in these points the principall glory of the newe Gospell consisteth and that there fore they are alwayes to be inculcated in season and out of seasorr I vvill briefly runne them once more ouer shewing as he doth only vvherein we differ without repeating the arguments which are to be seene in their proper places To come to the matter he putteth downe fiuâ— conclusions The first conclusion The Catholikes teach iâ— to be the property of faith to beleeue the whole word of God and especially the redemption of mankinde by Christ M. PERKINS DIFFERENCE THey beleeue indeede all the written word of God and more then all for they beleeue the bookes Apocryphall and vnwritten Traditions Answere Touching vnwritten Traditions see that Chapter in the first part M. PER. saith here Because they come to vs by the handes of men they cannot come within the compasse of our faith Then I say vpon the same ground the vvritten word cannot come within the compasse of our beleefe because it also commeth vnto vs by the handes of men And as the Apostles and their Schollers are to be credited when they deliuered the vvritten word vnto vs for Gods pure word so are they to be beleeued vvhen they taught the Church these poynts of Gods vvord vnwritten to be embraced as the true word of God although not written but committed to the harts of the faithfull And when we haue the testimony of auncient Councels or of many holy Fathers that these points of doctrine vvere by Tradition deliuered vnto the Church by the Apostles vve as firmely beleeue them as if they were written in the holy Scriptures For which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall vvhich not and what is the true meaning of hard places in Scripture we knowe no other way of infallible certainty then by the declaration of the Catholike Church which we therefore aswell beleeue telling vs these thinges were deliuered from the Apostles by Tradition as those thinges in vvriting And that such credit is to be giuen to the Catholike Church the Apostles Creede witnesseth which biddeth vs beleeue the Catholike Church Nowe touching those bookes of holy Scripture vvhich vvere some hundreth yeares after Christ doubted off by some of the auncient Fathers vvhether they were Canonicall or no thus we say That albeit it were vndetermined by the Church vntill S. Augustines time vvhether they were Canonical or no and so were by diuers auncient Fathers though not condemned as Apocryphall yet not comprehended vvithin the Canon of assured Scriptures notwithstanding that matter being in a Councell holden at Carthage where among many other learned Bishops S. Augustine vvas present throughly debated Concil Cartag 3. cap. 47. those bookes doubted off before were found by the holy Ghost and them to be true Canonicall Scripture and afterward vvere by the sixt generall Councell that confirmed this Councell holden at Carthage declared and deliuered to the whole Church for Canonicall Nowe as we receiued at the first the other bookes of Canonicall Scripture on the â—â—edit of the Catholike Church euen so ought vve to doe these shee hauing declared them to be such yea the Protestants themselues haue admitted many bookes of the newe Testament vvhich vvere doubted off for three hundred yeares after Christ why then doe they not as vvell receiue them of the old The difference betwixt vs is that they only of passion and priuate fancy admit these and reject those vvhereas vve of obedience relying vpon the judgement of the vvhole Church admit those bookes for Canonicall which the Catholike Church hath declared for such And thus much of the first conclusion Nowe to the second touching saluation by Christ alone wherein the Protestants either cannot vnderstand or will not report our doctrine aright We confesse that Christ IESVS hath merited the redemption and saluation of all mankinde yet say we further that not one man is saued through Christ vnlesse he for his owne part first beleeue in Christ if he be of yeares and be content to doe all those thinges that Christ hath commanded vs to doe so that to saluation two thinges are required the first and principall is Christes mediation the second is the applying of Christes mediation and merits vnto vs vvithout this latter the former will stand no man in steede Nowe to be made partaker of Christs merits we must not only beleeue in him as the Protestants teach but also keepe his commandements and by good workes deserue heauen otherwise according to Christs decree we shall neuer come thither as in the question of Merits hath beene plentifully proued out of the holy scriptures so we teach then that besides Christs sufferings and merits we must haue some of our owne or else vve shall neuer be partakers of Christes And M. PERKINS cannot be excused from a vvilfull corruption of Gods word when he affirmeth S. Paul to say We are not saued by such workes as God hath ordayned men regenerated to walke in for those be not the wordes of the text but his peeuish construction S. Paul putting a playne distinction betweene workes that we are not saued by and workes that we must walke in calling these later good workes and the other barely workes To the other text I say that we haue no righteousnesse of our owne strength or by the vertue of Moyses lawe but through the mercy of God and Christs merits we haue true righteousnesse giuen vs by baptisme Christ indeede by himselfe and his owne sufferinges not by sacrifice of Goates or Calues hath meritoriously washed away our sinnes that is deserued of God that they should be washed away but formally he hath washed away our sinnes by infusion of Christian righteousnesse into our soules He that will see more of this let him reade the question of Iustification And where as M. PER. saith that all grace of God powred into our hartes is by the corruption of our hartes defiled he little knoweth the vertue of Gods grace vvhich so cleanseth and purifieth
it said vvhatsoeuer yee loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Therefore to no purpose were the keyes of heauen giuen to the Church we make frustrate the Gospell of God we make voyde the wordes of Christ finally we promise to our selues that which he denyeth vs c. See howe playnely and formally he so many hundreth yeares before hath confuted the Protestants shot-anker and only refuge of confessing their sinnes to God alone and assureth vs that it is a most vayne excuse and vvill not serue any mans turne vvhen as God himselfe hath set downe and decreed that he will pardon no man of his sinnes vvho doth not seeke absolution thereof from them to whome he hath committed the charge of that matter that is from Priestes And in right reason can there be any better bridle vnto our corrupt nature then the very shame and bashfulnesse of confessing our secret faultes vnto a learned good and graue man such as a Confessour is or should be Againe where true confession of sinnes is there men vse the best meanes that can be to driue them from the custome of sinning for besides the particular sorrow which they haue of their sinnes they must firmely purpose neuer to returne to any kinde of sinne afterward yea they must abstayne from all occasions alluring to sinne so that no man vsing wel this Sacrament of Confession can dwell in malice vsury leachery or any state of sinne Moreouer if they haue taken away the goodes or good name of their neighbour they are enjoyned in confession presently to doe their best to restore it backe againe These and many other great commodities being the inseperable companions of priuate Confession vve Catholikes doe attribute vnto the good vse thereof the greatest Godlines and deuotion that is amongst vs. And no maruaile though our common enemy doe so busily endeauour to withdrawe sinners from it amplifying vnto them the indignity and shame of it but if they would consider maturely that dying in their sinnes for lacke of due confession they shal be to their vtter shame and confusion made to confesse them all and euery one at the latter day before God all his Angels and Saints the Deuill and all damned soules being also present they would vndoubtedly make choise rather to confesse their sinnes to some one vertuous Priest vvho will neuer reueale them but in Christes name absolue and pardon them then to leaue them to that dreadfull day of Gods just judgements when besides the shame and confusion of them no pardon is to be hoped for And thus much touching Confession Lastly saith M. PERKINS The abuse of satisfaction is that they haue burned Canonicall satisfaction which was made to the congregation by open offendors into a satisfaction of the justice of God for the temporall punishment of their sinnes Behold here a most horrible prophanation of the whole Gospell Answere Behold here a most vngodly and sencelesse out-crye what doth the whole sanctity of the Gospell consist only in the point of our satisfaction it is too too absurd so to say And howe knoweth he that Canonicall satisfaction vvas only or principally to satisfie the congregation They that ordayned of old those Canons of satisfaction had a greater care to satisfie and appease the wrath of God justly incensed against such wicked offendors then to satisfie men but this prophane man very fondly dreameth that they rather sought to please men then God But of this matter there is a vvhole question in the former part there he that vvill may see howe all satisfactions are principally instituted to appease Gods wrath and that they doe apply vnto vs the satisfactions of Christ and make vs partakers of them and are besides most conuenient meanes to bridle out corrupt nature from all sorts of sinnes M. PERKINS to shewe that he vvas the same man in the end of his booke as in the beginning concludeth this part with a most palpable lie to wit That Priests are not put to death in England for their religion but for their treasons which they intend and enterprise Let their owne recordes be seene whether very many of them haue not beene condemned only because they are Priestes made after the auncient Roman manner without laying vnto their charge any enterprise eyther against the person of the Prince or peace of the State But what wil not a Minister auouch to disgrace poore Priestes vvho doe neuerthelesse not only pray but vvill be ready also to spend their bloud for the conuersion of men of his sort and for all others their deare country-men by them most pitteously seduced Hitherto M. PERKINS hath handled pointes of religion something like a schoole-man now like a pulpit-minister he goeth on with his text and maketh such an vnsauory glosse vpon it that it loathes me almost to looke on it yet because he raketh and heapeth togither all the most odious matter that he can deuise against vs I will giue it the whippe and hastily runne ouer it thus he beginneth Secondly out of the same text Goe out of her my people I gather Pag. 331. that the true Church of God is and hath beene in the present Roman Church as the corne in the heape of chaffe For though Popery ouer-spread the face of the earth for many hundreth yeares yet in the middest thereof God reserued a people to himselfe that truly worshipped him c. And this will serue the turne to stoppe the mouthes of Papists who demand of vs where our Church was one hundreth yeares agoe before the dayes of Luther We answere out of this text that our Church hath beene euer since the dayes of the Apostles and that in the very middest of the Papacy but it first beganne to shewe it selfe in Luthers time an vniuersall Apostacy hauing hidden it before for many hundreth yeares Answere Here is a proper peece of doctrine and proued as profoundly It is very ridiculous and absurd to say that their Church vvas in the Church of Rome for one that wil be both of their Church of the Roman must beleeue and professe not one or two but more then twenty articles flat contradictory the one to the other which is impossible Can a man at once beleeue the Pope to be head of the vniuersal Church and with-all sweare that he hath no authority in many Prouinces of it but that all Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction there belongeth to the Prince or that Christs naturall body is really present in the Sacrament and not really present and that Saints are to be prayed vnto and not to be prayed vnto nothing is more euident then that this cannot be no more could the Protestants Church be in the Church of Rome And if the Protestants vvould allowe them for theirs vvho beleeue most of the articles of the Roman faith contrary to their owne doctrine so that in some fewe points they doe agree and accord with them yet the Church of Rome wil neuer take them for any of her children who
before I come to the full period of this worke Curteous Reader BEARE WITH THE FAVLTS IN PRINTING WHICH CAN HARDLY BE FEW CONSIDERING THE MANIFOLD DIFFICVLTIES OF THE time And yet besides the ouer-sights in pointing are not very many which be thus corrected IN THE MARGENT THESE Generally a ss is set in the quotation of Caluins Institution for the Section or Number For. Page Reade Beza in Neoph. 9. in Creophag simil ibid. Simler sess 17. 2. 11. number 1. 2. Homil. in praeâ—rat 48. In priorem ad Corint Conc. 56. Canon IN THE TEXT THESE For. Page Line Reade declared 7 15 declare Atheisme 20 9 Atheismes was this 40 35 was it pithagorically 63. 22 pithagoricall I say to solemnely 86 22 to be solemnely Euchirines 135 24 Eucherius established 145 17 establish Cesanis 155 39 Caesarius Pomachius 156 1 Pamachius demised 180 18 deuised proofe 181 16 disproofe The quotation of S. Augustine which is in psalm 33. conc 2. is omitted in the 68. page Hier. cont Lucif cap. 6. wanteth page 209. And in the Aduertisment page the 25. for apud Dionysium 1. Cor. reade apud Ludolphum de vita Christi part 1. cap. 5. pag. 17. AN ANSVVERE VNTO M. PERKINS ADVERTISEMENT M. PERKINS Aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the dayes of the Apostles by al Churches which principles be fowre The Apostles Creede the tenne Commandements the Lordes prayer the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lordes supper 1. COR. 11. vers 23. I HAD once determined to haue wholy omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twise before but more then twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both howe ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes here reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answere And further also by prouing their newe religion to be very opposite vnto those old groundes of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall pointes thereof against the very groundes of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lordes prayer the two Sacraments THE Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul fifteene hundreth yeares before the Councell of Trent and hath beene euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successors constantly reteined and most sincerely obserued and maintayned some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall pointes thereof should be against the groundes of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath beene agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostles daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestantes who slaunder all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kind of corruption or other and who hold no kind of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is it not I say more credible that they should shake those groundes of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that fewe men of any indifferent judgement can thinke the contrarie But let vs descend to the particulers wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishoppe of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saintes are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that prayer is to be made to Saintes departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daylie offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These pointes are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creede which hath beene thought to contayne all necessary pointes of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these pointes nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creede or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundreth yeares This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these be newe articles of faith neuer knowne in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and newe Testament Answere is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all thinges which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this be as they say we must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-seene that did not propound the former pointes to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these later times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many thinges confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctlie to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all pointes of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestantes themselues must needes confesse or else graunt that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that vve are justified by Christes justice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacramentes or that the Church seruice must be said in the
doe it Nowe what replyed Christ vnto their doubt that he vvould giue them only bread to eate in remembrance of him vvhich vvould surely haue satisfied them throughly because nothing vvas more easie to doe then that But truth is not to be concealed for feare of Pharasaicall scandall and therefore he told them very roundly That vnlesse they did eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloud They should not haue life in them And he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud hath life euerlasting And yet more expresly My flesh is meate in deede and my bloud drinke in deede Howe should he haue made the matter more plaine To this M. PERKINS answereth first That Christ speaketh of a spirituall eating by faith because the very point that he intendeth to proue is that to beleeue in him and to eate his flesh is all one This answere is absurd For euen in their owne doctrine there is a great difference betweene beleeuing in Christ and receiuing the communion for many doe beleeue in Christ when they doe not receiue the communion receiuing being as they teach a seale or confirmation of beleeuing And to say that Christ there maketh no difference betweene beleeuing in him and eating of his flesh is flat against the text For saying that he would hereafter giue them his flesh to eate he doth declare that he speaketh not of beleeuing in him vvhich he vvould haue them to doe presently and many of them did beleeue in him before vvho could not disgest his doctrine of the Sacrament Againe it is altogether vnlikely that our Sauiour would haue vsed such strange offensiue speaches as the eating of his flesh and drinking of his bloud to signifie only that they must beleeue in him and that he seing them so much scandalized at those his hard and vnvsuall phrases that they vvere ready to forsake him would yet not once in plaine tearmes interprete them for the sauing of so many soules wherefore it remaineth most manifest that by eating of his flesh he meant something else then beleeuing in him And M. PER. other shift that in all the sixt Chapter of S. Iohn Christ speaketh not one word of eating his flesh in the Sacrament is so contrary vnto the euidence of the text it selfe and vnto the exposition of all ancient Fathers that it deserueth no answere especially vvhen neither by reason or authority he goeth about to fortifie it But I muse why he did omit their ordinary objection out of the same place The flesh profiteth nothing it is the spirit that quickneth It may be perhaps because he knewe that the vvordes being rightly vnderstood make more against the Protestants then for them For the flesh there must be taken either for Christes flesh or for our flesh if for Christes flesh Tract 27. in Ioannē then saith S. Augustine Howe can it be that it profiteth nothing when he said before vnlesse yo eate my flesh you shall haue no life in you What therefore meaneth this it profiteth nothing Marry saith he it profiteth nothing as they vnderstood it For they tooke they should eate it as it is torne and cut in peeces being dead and sold in the shambles and not as it is quickned with the spirit which he doth illustrate with the comparison of knowledge which being alone doth puffe vp scientia enim inflat but being joyned with charity doth edifie Euen so saith he when the spirit is coupled with the flesh then doth it profit verie much or else the worde would not haue beene made flesh and haue dwelled among vs. With S. Augustine agreeth S. Cyril vpon that place In cap. 6. Ioannis but more literall seemeth to be the interpretation of S. Chrisostome followed by Theophilact and others vpon this place that by the flesh is to be vnderstood our fleshly and naturall reason which in these misteries of faith doth rather hinder then helpe vs. For mans wit of it selfe cannot comprehend howe bread may be turned into Christes body not howe so great a bodie can be in so litle a roome c. but informed with faith and Gods grace it is then well assured that whatsoeuer Christ saith is true and that nothing is impossible to him howe contrarie soeuer it seeme vnto flesh and bloud For his wordes as it followeth in the text be spirit and life that is be of diuine force and giue life and being vnto vvhat hee pleaseth And thus much of our first reason Nowe to the second Christ taking bread into his handes gaue it to his Disciples saying 1. Cor. 11. Math. 26 Marc. 14. Luc. 22. this is my body which is giuen for you and giuing them the Chalice said drinke yee all of this for this is my bloud of the newe Testament which shall be shed for you These our Sauiours wordes are so plaine that it was not possible in so fewe wordes to expresse more perspicuously that it was his true naturall bodie which he deliuered vnto them it being the verie same which was to be nailed on the Crosse the morrowe after But M. PER. answereth that they are not to be taken properlie but by a figure the body there being put for a signe or seale of his bodie Reply This is a very extrauagant exposition of Christes vvordes and such a one as if it vvere admitted for currant vvoulde serue to subuert and ouerthrovve all the articles of the Christian faith For example vvhen it is said that the word was made flesh the Manachees heresies against Christes true flesh might be maintayned by saying that the flesh there is put for a figure of the flesh so might the Arrian heresie if vvhen Christ is called God it vvere allowed them to expound and take it for a signe or seale of GOD and so of all other articles of our beleefe wherefore there must be most apparant proof for the drawing of Christes wordes into so strange a sence before it be admitted of any reasonable man But M. PER. and the Protestants are so farre off from producing any such inuincible euidence for their odde interpretation that they cannot alleadge any probable cause of it heare and then judge Genes 17. vers 10. Exod. 12. vers 11. 1. Cor. 10. M. PERKINS saith first That it is an vsuall manner of the Lord in speaking of the Sacraments to giue the name of the thinges signified to the signe as circumcision is called the couenant of God and the next verse the signe of the couenant and the Pascall lambe is called the Angels passing-ouer whereas in deede it was but a signe of it and the Rocke was Christ * 1. Cor. 5. vers 7. the passe-ouer was Christ Answ It may be that sometimes speaking of Sacraments by the way some figuratiue speach may be vsed but we say that when any Sacramēt is first instituted and ordained that then the wordes are to be taken literally without any such figure For example in the Sacraments specified by M. PER.
we will demand at his handes We call vpon Christ for saluation and therefore must we first beleeue him to be a Sauiour we call vpon Saints to pray for vs therefore must vve before hand beleeue that they both can and will pray for vs and that they are able through the fauour and loue that God beareth them to entreate much at Gods handes see howe vve must beleeue in them vpon whom we call for helpe And the very phrase of beleeuing in Saints is vsed by the same a Ad Philemon v. 5. Apostle not vnlike that of the old Testament b Exod. 14 vers 31. The people beleeued God and his seruant Moyses M. PERKINS goeth on patching vp his former argument with that which hath small coherence with it to wit That we haue no promise to be heard but for Christs sake Admit it vvere so it maketh nothing against prayer to Saints for they pray for vs in Christs name and are heard for Christs sake Finally M. PERKINS fableth that we giue for our only warrant of inuocation of Saints miracles and reuelations and thereunto answereth that to judge of any point of doctrine by miracles three thinges must concurre First the doctrine of faith and piety to be confirmed Secondly prayer to God that some thing may be done for the ratifying of the said doctrine Thirdly the manifest edification of the Church by the two former What of all this good Sir Marry thinke what you vvill for he inferreth nothing I will therefore apply all this to the purpose and say first That vvhen a miracle is graunted by God to confirme any point of doctrine in controuersie then euery man is as vvell bound to beleeue that point of doctrine as if it were plainely recorded in the holy Scripture for it hath God to witnesse who cannot deceiue Secondly that S. Bernard a most Godly man and one whose testimony M. PER. doth very often alleage did fulfill all those three worthy obseruations of M. PER. in working of miracles to confirme inuocation of Saints and therefore it is to be beleeued of all men euen by M. PERKINS owne sentence For first he propounded inuocation of Saints Lib. 3. vitae cap. 5. as a doctrine of faith and great piety in the Prouince of Tolouse in France where it was by our Protestants Grandsiers the Albigenses denyed Secondly he blessed some certaine loafes of bread that were presented to him and prayed to God that if inuocation to Saints were pure doctrine of faith that then whosoeuer should taste of that bread might be cured of what disease soeuer he was sicke A Bishop that stoode by added yea Sir if they receiue them with good faith they shall be healed S. Bernard replyed I said not so but whosoeuer shall truly taste of them shall be cured that they may knowe vs to haue the truth and to be the true messengers of God And as it there followeth An huge multitude of sicke and diseased persons tasting of that bread recouered perfect health If we had no other argument then this it alone were sufficient to perswade any Christian that to pray vnto Saints is the true doctrine of Christ which God so expresly would confirme by miracles and testifie so euidently What would he beleeue that will not beleeue this But saith M. PER. miracles be to be done for Infidels and not for them who beleeue True it is and therefore was this miracle done to conuert or to confound such Infidels as our Protestants are vvho will not beleeue the inuocation of Saints Lastly saith he our faith is not to be confirmed by reuelations Luc. 16. vers 29. and apparitions of dead men but by the writings of the Apostles and Prophets What is this either to miracles or inuocation of Saints neither is that which he saith to be drawne out of those wordes of that parable as I will proue when it shall be neede Note by the way that twice in this question he himselfe citeth that parable of Diues and Lazarus for proofe of doctrine vvhich he afterward denyeth to be lawfull for vs to doe What our other groundes be for inuocation of Saints shall be declared in our arguments following M. PERKINS fift reason To pray to Saints departed to bowe the knee to them while they are in heauen is to asscribe vnto them that which is proper to God namely to knowe the hart and inward desires thereof and to knowe the speeches and behauiours of all men in all places on the earth at all times Answere This man doth too too broadly enlarge his lies for neither doe all men at once much lesse at all times pray vnto euery or any one of the Saints but suppose they did yet to heare all their prayers togither is nothing so much as to see that which euery Saint doth see in heauen to wit the one only substance of God in three persons for what are all the cogitations of men compared vnto the immense and incomprehensible nature of God not so much as the point of a pinne to the whole globe of the earth and yet euery Saint in heauen doth clearely behold God therefore much more able are they to heare and see all thinges that belong vnto men And as the learned Diuines knowe the man-hood of our Sauiour Christ doth see knowe and comprehend all the deedes wordes and thoughts of all men that haue liued since the beginning of the world vnto the end because it belongeth vnto him who is judge of all to knowe all aswell to reward the good as to punish the euill and yet doth no Diuine say that the man-hood of Christ is God or equall vnto God in knowledge Nowe the Saints in heauen doe not see the secretes of our harts in our harts but being present to the face of God doe behold in it as it were in a most cleare glasse all that is pleaseth the goodnesse of God to reueale vnto them and it is incident and belonging necessarily vnto their most happy estate to haue graunted to them all that in reason they can demande otherwise they were not so happy as they might be Now what good nature would not be glad to pleasure his owne fellowe members and deare friendes specially such as craue so much at his handes vvherefore it cannot be denyed of any considerate man but that God who satisfieth al their just requests doth ordinarily reueale vnto his dearely beloued Saints all the prayers that be made vnto them Surely S. Augustine in most expresse tearmes declareth De cura pro mort cap. 15. 16. That God can giue such power vnto his Saints and Martirs that they may be present in spirit at euery place throughout the world where there is any memory of them or prayer made vnto them He will not take vpon him to define whether they be actually there present or no or whether by the ministery of Angels they be relieued that seeke helpe by the intercession of Martirs but maketh no
the chiefest Bishops and Doctors aswell for their Godlynesse of life as for their knowledge in holy Scriptures who were also chosen by the holy Ghost to gouerne instruct and teach the principal Churches in both Europe Africke and Asia and that in or about the most flourishing state thereof for all of them sauing S. Gregory the great and venerable Bede liued within 400. and some within 200. yeares of Christ Whither I say these most sound testimonies of so many sacred and worthy personages be not sufficient to perswade any reasonableman that praying to the Saints in heauen is both agreable to Gods vvord which no man in these dayes vnderstandeth halfe so well as the worst of any of them did and also very profitable for vs. Yet for the further assurance of this important matter I wil adde one miracle which I touched before wrought in confirmation of it so that he that will not beleeue this shall be conuinced not to beleeue God himselfe witnessing of it In the coasts of Thelousae in France Ex lib. 3. vitae S. Bernardi cap. 5. about 400. yeares past one Henry an Apostata and wicked fellowe beganne to cry out against praying for the dead and praying to Saints and pilgrimages and some other points of the Catholike doctrine the fame of S. Bernards holynesse and learning being then very great he was sent for by the Popes Legate to come thither to stay the people from following that lewde companion who on a day after he had preached at a towne called Sarlate blessed some loaues of bread and said This shall be a certayne proofe that our doctrine is true and theirs false if those that be sicke by tasting of this holy bread be cured of their diseases There stood by among others the Bishop of Charters who fearing what might followe added if they taste of it with faith Nay said the holy Father Barnard nothing doubting of Gods power I say not so but he that shall taste of it shall be truly cured that they may knowe vs to be true men and the true messengers of God then a great multitude tasting of it were according to his word perfectly healed of what disease soeuer they had What can be more euident or better assured then that praying to Saints is the truth of God seing that it pleased God to confirme it in such sort by the miraculous curing of so many people M. PERKINS for an vpshot saith that he finally dissenteth from the Catholikes because they are not content to pray to Saints but say further that God through their merits in heauen doth bestowe many benefits vpon vs on earth I would he agreed with vs in the two former points we should quickly be at accord in this for the good-man is fouly mistaken if he thinke that vve affirme the Saints after they be come to heauen to merit a newe there for we hold that none after their death can merit any more but doe then receiue according vnto their former merits either saluation or damnation but we neuerthelesse say that God in respect of their former merits gotten in this life doth for their sakes bestowe many benefits vpon vs and this doth M. PER. himselfe confirme in plaine wordes In this question when he graunteth pressed thereto by the euidence of Gods word that men vpon earth haue helpe and benefit by the faith and piety which the Saints departed shewed when they were in this life for saith he further God shewed mercy on them that keepe his commandements to a thousand generations True it is that this their faith and piety he would not haue to be called merits but vve with that most honourable Father S. Ambrose doe say Apud Deum Lib. 5. super LucaÌ„ seruus interueniendi meritum jus habet impetrandi with God a seruant of his hath both the merit to be an intercessour and the right to obtayne his suite see more of merits in that question Here M. PER. addeth against himselfe That the Saints in heauen haue receiued the full reward of all their merits and therefore there is nothing further that they can merit Here we haue first that the Saints had merits which he was wont to deny flatly againe how doth God hauing fully rewarded their former faith and piety at their entrance into heauen afterward for their sakes shew mercy to thousands which he confesseth himselfe wherefore he is aswell bound to answere this as we are it bearing as strongly against his owne doctrine as it doth against ours To saue him a labour I answere in a word that it is one part of the reward of a faithful seruant to be alwayes after not deseruing the contrary in his Masters fauour and so gratious with him that he may intreate any reasonable matâ—â—r at his handes so are the Saints vvith God vvho can neuer be wearyed with their suites so long as they all doe but tend vnto his owne honour and the saluation of his poore creatures and as we both agreed vpon before Their faith piety and charity whiles they liued did and doth still moue and cause God to shewe mercy vnto thousands vpon earth for their sakes though their merits were before most abundantly rewarded let this suffice for this question OF IMPLICITE OR INFOLDED FAITH M. PERKINS Page 266. THis question is handled for two causes as he saith pag. 274. first to rectifie the conscience of the weaker sort of his disciples secondly to rectifie their Catechismes which doe as he censureth require too full an assurance of saluation in all men It being then for the instruction of his ovvne deceiued flocke and not much appertayning to vs I will post it ouer lightly He teacheth a twofold implicity of faith first that faithfull men may be ignorant at the beginning of many articles of faith and learne them afterwardes It was so in deede in Christes time because he taught them not all a once but since the establishment of the Gospell it is necessary that euery one beleeue all the articles of the Apostles Creede the true doctrine of the Sacraments and such other necessary heades of the Christian religion other points of faith may be learned in time according vnto the capacity of the persons The second fold of his faith is that many of his deceiued disciples haue not at their conuersion and in time of temptation a full assurance of their saluation which notwithstanding will serue the turne then if they desire to haue a full assurance and labour afterward to attayne vnto it which he speaketh to the comfort of their consciences that cannot perswade themselues so assuredly that their sinnes are pardoned them This presumptious doctrine of full assurance of saluation I haue in a seueral question before confuted therefore I say only here that no Christian is bound to haue any such absolute assurance of his owne saluation but that he must according to the Apostles rule worke his saluation with trembling and feare Ad Philip. 2.
comfortable sacrifice and by the almes that are giuen for their soules that God may deale more mercifully with them then their sinnes deserued For saith he the vniuersall Church obserueth and keepeth this as by tradition receiued from the Fathers that for them who are departed in the communion of the body and bloud of Christ when at the sacrifice there is made a commemoration or mention of them they are prayed for and the sacrifice is remembred to be offered for them The third witnesse is Tertullian a most auncient and learned authour De corona militis who reckoneth it among the traditions of the Apostles to pray for the soules of the faithfull departed It appearing then so manifest by the testimony of such approued witnesses that to pray for the dead is an Apostolicall tradition generally receiued and practised in the most flourishing state of the Church S. Augustines verdict must needes proue true who saith that it is a point of most insolent madnesse to dispute against that which the whole Church doth practise Wherefore our Protestants vvere 1300. yeares agoe condemned for Heretikes in this point in one Aerius vvho vvas censured by that holy and learned Bishop Epiphanius haeres 75. and by S. Augustine ad Quodvult deum haeres 53. an Heretike because that to the Arrian heresie he added this of his owne that we must not offer sacrifice nor pray for the soules of the departed so that to denie prayer for the dead is by the judgement of the auncient Church deemed flat heresie To these former authorities let vs adde one reason deducted also out of the vvord of God When a sinner is truly conuerted though the fault and eternall paine due to it be through Christes merits freely pardoned him yet there remayneth some temporall punishment to be suffered by the party himselfe for the same offence before remitted This proposition is denyed by the Protestants but it is so manifestly set downe in Gods vvord that they cannot but be put to great shame for it if they be vrged with the examples of the children of Israell of Aaron and Moyses and Dauid Num. 14. Ibi. c. 20. ver 24. Deut. 32. vers 51. 2. Reg. 12. who were all first pardoned of their sinnes and afterward put to penance for the very same offences as I haue in the matter of satisfaction more amply proued Nowe to the present purpose But many who haue beene great offendors are not conuerted till towardes their death or else being conuerted long before doe not fulfill such penance as in justice is due vnto their grieuous and manifold former offences therefore the due order of Gods justice requireth that after their death they accomplish that which was wanting in their life time To this nothing else can be answered but that which some of them doe answere that the very death vvhich euery one endureth doth serue to supply all former defectes of his life and purgeth him cleane from all payne due to his former sinnes but this is said both without authority or any reason For a naturall death is due vnto all the Sonnes of Adam for original sinne in so much as the very innocents baptised are not freed from it and therefore that cannot be also a satisfaction for all other actuall sinnes Againe some vvho haue deserued great punishment die suddainely and vvith small payne so that there is no proportin betweene the payne of their death and their former trespasses We denie not but that such may be both the length and sharpenesse of the sickenesse whereof some die that it being patiently taken may either greatly diminish or perhaps wholy extinguish al former offences but to say that euery ones ordinary death doth cancell all former obligation of sinnes howe many or howe great soeuer they were hath neither â—ime or reason in it I could for a conclusion assemble the sentences of the fathers and shew howe they prayed for the soules departed in their funerall Orations for them as Gregory Nazianzene for the soule of Cesanis S. Ambrose for the soules of Theodosius Valentinian and Satyrus promising also to offer sacrifice for them In epist. ad eundeÌ„ Lib. 5. hystor c. 26. Lib. 3. Institut c. 5. §. 10. S Hierome commending Pomachius for praying and giuing almes for the soule of his wife and Theodorete praysing the Emperour Theodosius the younger for prostrating himselfe at the Relikes of S. Iohn Chrysostome and praying there for the soules of his parents Arcadius and Eudoxia I could I say bring a clowde of witnesses to this purpose but Caluin easeth me of that labour who acknowledgeth That for 1300. yeares before his dayes that is almost from the first time that the auncient Fathers beganne to write the custome of praying for the dead hath beene vsed in the Church Marry he would haue vs beleeue that it was brought in by the vulgar sort after the imitation of the Gentils But we haue shewed that the best learned and most sincere and Godly Preachers and Doctors haue both out of the word of God and Tradition of the Apostles taught their flockes that point of Christian doctrine and further by name condemned them of heresie that taught the contrary so that very fondly doth Caluin taxe S. Augustine for praying for his mothers soule saying forsooth that he did it only to satisfie the old womans request and saith yet more impudently that in his booke of the care to be taken for the dead he doth very coldly handle the matter vvhereas you haue heard I hope sufficiently out of him howe resolute and peremptory he is for Purgatory See the beginning of it and cap. 4. And in that said booke his principall intent is to approue the burying of the dead neare vnto the body or relikes of some Martir to the intent that he vvho remembreth the body of his best beloued to be there buryed may vvith greater deuotion recommend vnto the same Martir his deare friendes soule And therefore he doth much commend a deuout Matron for burying her sonne neare vnto the relikes of S. Foelix and counsaileth others so to doe adding that if they cannot procure any such burying place for their friendes yet that in no case they ought to cease from necessary prayers and supplications for them For saith he wheresoeuer the body of the departed doe lie the rest and peace of his soule is to be procured and sought for And whether out of fond affection towardes his mother or out of a most setled judgement he prayed for her and vvhether it were coldly or no let his owne wordes declare thus he beginneth to proue Caluin an audacious lyer Lib. 9. Confess cap. 13. But nowe I hauing my hart cured of that wound in which humane affection might be faulty doe powre forth vnto thee our God for that thy seruant his mother Monica another manner of teares which floweth from a minde stroken with feare by consideration of those perils which followe euery soule that dyeth
that it toucheth the body and cleanseth the hart can any thing be more cleare and forcible to ouerturne M. PERKINS position then to say that the water of baptisme washeth and purifieth mans hart this sentence scalded his lips wherefore he would gladly shake and shift it off by another place of the same Father Tract 6. in epist. Iohannis where S. Augustine teacheth That water sometimes signifieth the gifts of the holy Ghost Be it so what then doth it therefore signifie the holy Ghost in all places or in that where he saith That it toucheth the body and washeth the soule it cannot be for he speaketh of that water with which first the body is washed and that is not the holy Ghost but natural water But at least in the other place he doth not say out altogither as much as he did in the first True and who is he that treating often of one matter that is very copious and large but that sometime he handleth one point of it sometimes another here he discusseth one and the same thing more exactly there more sleightly as occasion serued wherefore it is no reason to say that in one place he said not so much of this matter therefore when he spake more particularly of iâ— in another you must expound him by that place where he spake lesse of it And thus much in answere vnto M. PERKINS reasons Nowe to some fewe arguments for the Catholike party He proposeth one for vs thus Remission of sinnes and saluation are ascribed to the Sacrament of baptisme * Act. 22. vers 17. Be baptised and wash away thy sinnes a Ephes 5. vers 26. Cleansing the Church by the lauer of water in the word of life b Tit. 3. vers 5. He hath saued vs by the lauer of regeneration c 2. Tim. 1. vers 6. The grace of God was giuen to Timothy by the imposition of handes Which phrase of cleansing and sauing by the lauer or bath of water importeth no lesse then that by water as a true physicall instrument that grace of God was convayed into the soules of the baptised which may be confirmed by many the like places as where it is said d Ioh. 3. vers 5. Vnlesse a man be borne a new of water and the holy Ghost where our regeneration and newe birth is ascribed vnto the working of water which were all very vnproper speeches if they diâ—import no more then that when water is applyed vnto vs then doth God immediately from himselfe and not by any meanes of the water sanctifie vs so that first we haue the Scripture for vs in his proper natiue signification M. PERKINS answereth That saluation is ascribed vnto the Sacraments as to the word of God that is as they are instruments to signifie seale and exhibite to the beleeuing minde the fore-said benefits but indeede the proper instrument whereby saluation is apprehended is faith And Sacraments are but props of faith furthering saluation two wayes First because by their signification they helpe to nourish and preserue faith Secondly because they seale grace and saluation to vs yea God giueth grace and saluation vnto vs when we vse them well so that we beleeue the word of promise made to the Sacrament whereof they are seales This his answere I haue put downe at large that the juditious reader may see howe many wordes he vseth to answere not one word to purpose for here is indeede an explication of their owne doctrine but not any reason why we should not take the wordes of holy Scripture before alleadged according vnto the proper manner of the phrase whereby they assigne water to be the reall meanes and true instrument of our saluation and thus much of our first argument The second shall directly confute his answere thus If Sacraments doe worke like vnto the word of God preached and only exhibite and feale vnto the beleeuing minde the benefits by them promised then he that cannot vnderstand such signes and promises and hath not vvit to conceiue and beleeue them can in no case receiue any such Sacrament well and worthily as if the word were preached neuer so perfectly vnto one of no capacity or vnderstanding it would worke nothing with him by reason of his want of vnderstanding but the Sacrament of baptisme and some others giuen vnto them who haue not sufficient wit and reason to vnderstand the meaning of it as for example vnto infants yet doe neuerthelesse worke their regeneration and saluation therefore it is most manifest and euident that the Sacraments of their owne proper force as the instruments of God doe worke our saluation vvithout the helpe of the receiuers faith This is confirmed by the testimony of those auncient Fathers who hold that one speciall cause why our Sauiour would be baptised was that by touching the water he might giue it vertue to purge and cleanse vs from sinne so witnesseth S. Ambrose Lib. 2. in Lucam 12. S. Gregory Nazianzene Oratione in sancta lumina Chrysostome Hom. 25. in Iohaâ—nem Venerable Bede in 3. Lucae Againe it is the common opinion of the auncient Doctors that the Sacraments are conduites to convay the merits of Christs passion into our soules yea are said to haue flowed out of Christes side opened on the Crâ—sse they therefore doubted not but that they had a spirituall vertue in them to cleanse and sanctifie our mindes But let vs heare some fewe of them in formall tearmes deliuering the same doctrine vvhich vve teach you haue heard already S. Basil and S. Augustine cited by M. PERKINS Gregory Nyssene speaking of Aarons rodde and such like thinges by which miracles were wrought saith * Orat. de Baptismo And all these thinges being without sence and life yet hauing receiued vertue from God were meanes of great miracles euen so water being nothing but water hauing receiued the heauenly blessing doth reâ—ewe a man vnto a spirituall regeneration And further That as seede is the cause of carnall generation so water that is blessed is the instrumentall cause of mans pâ—â—gation and illumination S. Chrysostome a Hom. 25 in Iohan. That which the wombe is to the infant that is water vâ—to the faithfull for in water we are formed and made S. Cyril of Alexandria b Lib. 2. in Iohan. cap. 42. Euen as water being heated with fire doth burne like fire it selfe euen so water wherewith the body is sprinckled in baptisme by the working of the holy Ghost is reformed and raysed vp to a diuine power and vertue Tertullian c Lib. de Baptismo Of old water gaue life that is water brought forth liuing creatures that it be not strange that water in baptisme knowe howe to giue life S. Ambrose d Lib. 2. de Poenitentia cap. 2. It seemed impossible that water should wash away sinne and Naaman the Syrian did not beleeue that his leprosie could be washed away with water but God hath made possible that which