wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v 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brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n 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care_n and_o vigilancy_n and_o dispense_n the_o same_o faithful_o to_o her_o child_n as_o need_n require_v whensoever_o any_o haeretique_n or_o other_o enemy_n endeavour_v to_o corrupt_v or_o pervert_v she_o call_v her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n together_o to_o examine_v the_o matter_n be_v infallible_o assist_v by_o that_o spirit_n of_o truth_n which_o our_o saviour_n promise_v to_o be_v always_o with_o his_o disciple_n that_o be_v with_o his_o church_n she_o declare_v what_o be_v true_a and_o what_o false_a as_o agree_v or_o disagree_v with_o or_o from_o that_o doctrine_n which_o she_o have_v receive_v from_o her_o father_n that_o be_v prophet_n and_o apostle_n upon_o who_o as_o upon_o a_o spiritual_a foundation_n she_o be_v strong_o build_v according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n superedificaii_fw-la supra_fw-la fundamentum_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la &_o prophetarum_fw-la 20._o ephes_n 2_o 20._o build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n the_o very_a word_n fundamentum_fw-la foundation_n also_o show_v that_o her_o doctrine_n be_v not_o of_o her_o own_o invention_n or_o frame_n but_o ground_v on_o they_o from_o who_o she_o receive_v it_o and_o that_o she_o have_v not_o any_o which_o she_o receive_v not_o from_o they_o for_o as_o in_o a_o house_n or_o building_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o stone_n or_o piece_n of_o timber_n which_o rest_v not_o upon_o the_o foundation_n so_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o point_n which_o be_v not_o ground_v or_o contain_v in_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 27._o commonit_fw-la adver_v haer_fw-mi cap._n 27._o which_o truth_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n in_o like_a sort_n deduce_v out_o of_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la use_v by_o s._n paul_n to_o timothee_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la depositum_fw-la say_v he_o id_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la tibi_fw-la creditum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la a_o te_fw-la inventum_fw-la quod_fw-la accepisti_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la excogitasti_fw-la rem_fw-la non_fw-la ingenij_fw-la sed_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la non_fw-la usurpationis_fw-la privatae_fw-la sed_fw-la publica_fw-la traditionis_fw-la rem_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perductam_fw-la non_fw-la a_o te_fw-la prolatam_fw-la in_fw-la qua_fw-la non_fw-la auctor_fw-la debes_fw-la esse_fw-la sed_fw-la custos_fw-la non_fw-la institutor_fw-la sed_fw-la sectator_n non_fw-la ducens_fw-la sed_fw-la sequens_fw-la what_o be_v a_o depositum_fw-la it_o be_v that_o which_o thou_o be_v trust_v with_o not_o that_o which_o be_v find_v by_o thou_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v receive_v not_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v seek_v out_o a_o thing_n not_o of_o wit_n that_o be_v not_o of_o thy_o own_o invent_v but_o of_o learning_n that_o be_v which_o be_v learn_v not_o of_o private_a usurpation_n but_o public_a tradition_n a_o thing_n bring_v to_o thou_o not_o bring_v forth_o by_o thou_o wherein_o
acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o advise_v io._n tract_n 2._o in_o ep_n 1._o io._n that_o those_o passage_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o careful_o observe_v and_o remember_v which_o make_v most_o against_o haeretique_n 2._o after_o this_o the_o knight_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o foolish_a stuff_n which_o need_v no_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o bare_a recital_n of_o thing_n as_o for_o example_n our_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n his_o agreement_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o father_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o he_o cry_v out_o against_o our_o alter_v the_o commandment_n which_o be_v before_o answer_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n which_o shall_v be_v afterward_o answer_v only_o in_o this_o place_n i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n this_o wise_a question_n of_o he_o what_o reason_n say_v he_o can_v be_v allege_v why_o a_o ignorant_a man_n shall_v pray_v without_o understanding_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v with_o a_o contrary_a demand_n to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
by_o office_n as_o for_o succession_n in_o doctrine_n to_o speak_v proper_o and_o clear_o the_o succession_n be_v not_o to_o be_v consider_v in_o the_o doctrine_n itself_o for_o that_o must_v be_v always_o the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v in_o the_o men._n so_o that_o they_o succeed_v one_o another_o not_o only_o in_o place_n and_o office_n but_o also_o in_o the_o same_o doctrine_n that_o be_v hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n which_o their_o predecessor_n have_v hold_v as_o they_o hold_v the_o same_o place_n 3._o this_o premise_a which_o can_v be_v deny_v i_o think_v no_o man_n will_v be_v able_a in_o all_o that_o the_o knight_n say_v in_o this_o section_n to_o find_v so_o much_o as_o a_o shadow_n of_o succession_n either_o in_o person_n or_o doctrine_n either_o against_o we_o or_o for_o himself_o wherefore_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v only_o to_o discover_v his_o falsehood_n and_o corruption_n in_o charge_v we_o with_o ancient_a heresy_n for_o latin_a service_n then_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v first_o bring_v in_o by_o vitalian_n it_o be_v a_o most_o strange_a absurdity_n for_o this_o knight_n to_o aver_v such_o a_o know_a falsehood_n upon_o no_o other_o authority_n than_o volphiu'_v a_o profess_a haeretique_n and_o who_o can_v have_v no_o other_o ground_n but_o because_o that_o pope_n live_v about_o the_o year_n 666._o which_o number_n be_v the_o name_n of_o the_o beast_n in_o the_o apocalypse_n though_o if_o he_o that_o be_v wolphius_n will_v make_v a_o mystery_n of_o the_o year_n wherein_o s._n vitalian_n live_v i_o see_v not_o why_o he_o shall_v take_v the_o 666._o which_o be_v the_o eleven_o of_o his_o popedom_n rather_o than_o the_o year_n 655._o or_o 669._o which_o be_v the_o first_o and_o last_o year_n thereof_o which_o be_v so_o ridiculous_o false_a i_o will_v forbear_v to_o bring_v proof_n against_o it_o lest_o i_o may_v give_v occasion_n to_o any_o man_n to_o think_v that_o there_o be_v any_o the_o least_o likelihood_n in_o it_o for_o during_o those_o 600._o and_o odd_a year_n what_o other_o liturgy_n be_v there_o in_o the_o latin_a church_n but_o latin_a of_o which_o the_o very_a name_n of_o latin_a church_n give_v sufficient_a testimony_n if_o not_o latin_a let_v this_o knight_n or_o his_o friend_n wolphius_n say_v what_o language_n be_v in_o use_n before_o 4._o as_o for_o the_o osseni_n who_o our_o knight_n will_v place_v upward_o towards_o the_o apostle_n yet_o after_o their_o time_n for_o he_o go_v ascende_v upward_o as_o he_o say_v he_o be_v notable_o mistake_v in_o the_o tyme._n for_o epiphanius_n make_v they_o one_o of_o the_o seven_o sect_n which_o be_v among_o the_o jew_n before_o christ_n come_v for_o thus_o he_o say_v post_fw-la relatas_fw-la samaritarum_fw-la &_o superius_fw-la graecorum_n indicata_n sectas_fw-la septem_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la haereses_fw-la apud_fw-la judaeos_fw-la ante_fw-la christi_fw-la in_o carne_fw-la adventum_fw-la 14._o in_o principio_fw-la cap._n 14._o have_v relate_v and_o point_v out_o the_o sect_n of_o the_o samaritan_o and_o grecian_n there_o be_v seven_o heresy_n among_o the_o jew_n before_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n in_o flesh_n and_o then_o reckon_v and_o treat_v of_o the_o heresy_n in_o order_n in_o the_o 19_o chap._n he_o come_v to_o this_o of_o the_o osseni_n the_o very_a title_n be_v this_o contra_fw-la ossenos_n sextam_fw-la judaismâ—_n haeresim_fw-la against_o the_o osseni_n the_o sixth_o heresy_n of_o judaisme_n beside_o for_o the_o matter_n i_o only_o say_v that_o read_v that_o 19_o heresy_n of_o epiphanius_n which_o he_o cit_v the_o title_n whereof_o be_v of_o the_o osseni_n twice_o over_o and_o the_o second_o time_n yet_o more_o attentive_o than_o the_o first_o i_o can_v not_o find_v any_o such_o word_n as_o the_o knight_n cit_v out_o of_o he_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n to_o make_v a_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n indeed_o it_o be_v one_o of_o elxais_n heresy_n who_o live_v long_o after_o in_o traian_n time_n and_o who_o s._n epiphanius_n join_v with_o the_o osseni_n that_o man_n must_v not_o pray_v towards_o the_o east_n as_o then_o be_v the_o general_a custom_n of_o the_o church_n which_o error_n be_v not_o to_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o least_o of_o a_o hundred_o which_o our_o heretic_n now_o adays_o maintain_v and_o yet_o they_o forsooth_o make_v no_o matter_n of_o because_o they_o be_v not_o fundamental_a 5._o for_o the_o place_n of_o s._n ambrose_n if_o a_o catholic_a shall_v urge_v he_o or_o his_o minister_n with_o a_o authority_n out_o of_o that_o work_n they_o will_v make_v answer_n it_o be_v not_o s._n ambrose_n his_o and_o they_o will_v fill_v their_o margin_n with_o citation_n take_v out_o of_o our_o author_n which_o exception_n though_o i_o may_v in_o like_a sort_n make_v yet_o i_o do_v not_o because_o the_o author_n be_v ancient_a though_o not_o know_v nor_o his_o doctrine_n in_o all_o thing_n so_o currant_n but_o for_o this_o place_n the_o knight_n have_v so_o mangle_v &_o gloss_v it_o yet_o put_v all_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o author_n word_n that_o when_o i_o come_v to_o read_v the_o author_n and_o see_v he_o so_o change_v i_o begin_v to_o think_v whether_o that_o be_v the_o place_n but_o find_v that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o other_o and_o that_o it_o be_v like_a in_o some_o word_n i_o conclude_v that_o this_o must_v be_v it_o the_o author_n then_o comment_v upon_o the_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o the_o corinthian_n where_o s._n paul_n speak_v of_o some_o that_o do_v use_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n for_o ostentation_n say_v thus_o he_o ex_fw-la hebraeis_n erant_fw-la qui_fw-la aliquando_fw-la syra_n lingua_fw-la plaerumque_fw-la hebraea_n in_fw-la tractatibus_fw-la aut_fw-la oblationibus_fw-la utebantur_fw-la ad_fw-la commendationem_fw-la gloriabantur_fw-la enim_fw-la se_fw-la dici_fw-la hebraeos_fw-la propter_fw-la meritum_fw-la abrahae_fw-la these_o be_v of_o the_o hebrew_n who_o sometime_o use_v the_o syriack_n but_o most_o part_n the_o hebrew_n in_o their_o treatise_n that_o be_v speech_n or_o exhortation_n or_o oblation_n for_o ostentation_n for_o they_o do_v boast_v that_o they_o be_v call_v hebrew_n for_o the_o merit_n of_o abraham_n these_o be_v the_o word_n of_o the_o author_n true_o report_v and_o true_o translate_v whereas_o the_o knight_n put_v this_o praeface_n that_o there_o be_v certain_a jew_n among_o the_o grecian_n as_o namely_o the_o corinthian_n which_o word_n be_v not_o in_o this_o author_n then_o he_o go_v on_o thus_o who_o do_v celebrate_v the_o divine_a service_n and_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o author_n there_o be_v neither_o the_o word_n celebrate_v nor_o the_o word_n divine_a service_n much_o less_o the_o word_n sacrament_n all_o that_o have_v any_o show_n of_o a_o thing_n like_o be_v that_o word_n oblationibus_fw-la which_o signify_v offer_v whereof_o some_o may_v be_v make_v by_o lay_v man_n and_o woman_n as_o the_o puritan_n minister_n find_v full_a 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not_o one_o word_n right_o cite_v but_o only_o these_o sometime_o in_o the_o syriac_a and_o most_o common_o in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n which_o be_v take_v alone_o what_o sense_n can_v they_o have_v and_o yet_o how_o many_o line_n a_o man_n be_v fain_o to_o write_v to_o lay_v open_a his_o naughty_a dealing_v 6._o another_o point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n transubstantiation_n he_o draw_v from_o the_o haeretique_n heliesaitae_n which_o feign_v a_o twofold_a christ_n one_o in_o heaven_n another_o in_o earth_n out_o of_o theodoret._n and_o from_o one_o marcus_n a_o haeretique_n who_o by_o his_o invocation_n over_o the_o sacramental_a cup_n as_o the_o knight_n say_v cause_v the_o wine_n to_o appear_v like_o blood_n out_o of_o s._n irenaeus_n and_o last_o from_o the_o capharnait_v in_o christ_n time_n out_o of_o his_o own_o brain_n and_o so_o conclude_v our_o succession_n in_o
doctrine_n and_o person_n to_o be_v draw_v from_o idolater_n haeretique_n and_o capharnait_v of_o the_o first_o of_o these_o three_o theodoret_n say_v that_o those_o haeretique_n make_v two_o christ_n one_o below_o another_z above_o of_o who_o they_o say_v that_o he_o have_v dwell_v in_o many_o before_o and_o at_o last_o come_v down_o hither_o or_o as_o other_o declare_v it_o that_o at_o last_o he_o come_v and_o rest_v in_o jesus_n the_o son_n of_o mary_n a_o haeretical_a fable_n indeed_o which_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v what_o to_o make_v of_o but_o wherein_o be_v it_o like_v to_o our_o transubstantiation_n these_o haeretique_n make_v two_o christ_n we_o acknowledge_v but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o both_o in_o heaven_n and_o in_o the_o consecrate_a host_n marcus_n as_o irenaeus_n say_v by_o the_o help_n of_o the_o devil_n through_o art_n magic_a change_v the_o colour_n of_o the_o wine_n in_o the_o cup_n or_o chalice_n which_o the_o knight_n be_v please_v of_o himself_o to_o call_v 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he_o say_v the_o gentile_n be_v our_o first_o founder_n and_o benefactor_n for_o which_o he_o allege_v the_o say_n of_o our_o saviour_n the_o king_n of_o the_o gentile_n exercise_v lordship_n over_o they_o 22.25_o luc_n 22.25_o and_o they_o that_o exercise_n authority_n upon_o they_o be_v call_v benefactor_n here_o he_o say_v we_o be_v derive_v from_o bloodsucker_n and_o gentile_n usurp_a power_n over_o king_n in_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a whereas_o his_o doctrine_n he_o say_v be_v from_o christ_n whosoever_o will_v be_v great_a among_o you_o let_v he_o be_v your_o minister_n and_o whosoever_o will_v be_v chief_a among_o you_o let_v he_o be_v your_o servant_n this_o be_v his_o discourse_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o knight_n be_v egregious_o mistake_v in_o say_v that_o phocas_n give_v that_o authority_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n though_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v give_v it_o or_o rather_o attempt_v to_o give_v that_o which_o he_o can_v not_o give_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n what_o be_v that_o to_o we_o do_v we_o derive_v our_o succession_n from_o constantinople_n be_v there_o not_o a_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o be_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v for_o head_n of_o the_o church_n some_o hundred_o of_o year_n before_o ever_o there_o be_v a_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n or_o a_o constantinople_n or_o even_o a_o constantine_n himself_o what_o then_o do_v he_o tell_v we_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n or_o phocas_n or_o any_o such_o rather_o the_o clean_a contrary_n for_o all_o true_a history_n tell_v we_o that_o whereas_o john_n that_o ambitious_a bishop_n of_o constantinople_n conc._n ut_fw-la habetur_fw-la in_o ep_n pelag._n to_o 1._o conc._n will_v have_v have_v that_o title_n of_o universal_a bishop_n whereby_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o equal_a the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n though_o in_o word_n he_o protest_v never_o to_o do_v any_o thing_n against_o the_o see_v apostolic_a wherein_o he_o have_v be_v support_v by_o mauritius_n the_o emperor_n and_o upon_o who_o therefore_o and_o all_o his_o 327._o v._o cedr_n lonar_n &_o alias_o ap_fw-mi coqu_n count_v progr_n 22._o pag._n 327._o almighty_a god_n show_v the_o severity_n of_o his_o judgment_n when_o phocas_n come_v to_o be_v emperor_n though_o otherwise_o a_o naughty_a cruel_a man_n he_o make_v a_o constitution_n declare_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o plat._n in_o bonif._n 3._o which_o be_v head_n of_o all_o church_n shall_v be_v so_o call_v and_o hold_v by_o all_o forbid_v the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n the_o use_n of_o that_o title_n which_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o of_o himself_o out_o of_o which_o common_o the_o protestant_n object_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v receive_v his_o authority_n from_o phocas_n which_o be_v a_o most_o absurd_a and_o foolish_a conceit_n for_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n authority_n be_v far_o great_a than_o can_v be_v give_v by_o any_o earthly_a man_n and_o which_o be_v give_v by_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o here_o upon_o earth_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v possess_v and_o exercise_v continual_o for_o the_o space_n of_o more_o than_o 600._o year_n before_o phocas_n his_o tyme._n how_o then_o can_v it_o come_v from_o he_o but_o this_o show_v the_o knight_n ignorance_n and_o absurdity_n which_o be_v our_o business_n in_o this_o place_n first_o in_o say_v that_o phocas_n make_v such_o a_o decree_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n which_o show_v his_o ignorance_n for_o that_o decree_n be_v make_v by_o phocas_n in_o favour_n of_o bonifacius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n against_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n second_o in_o allege_v that_o for_o a_o reason_n or_o ground_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n authority_n which_o be_v common_o allege_v even_o by_o protestant_n against_o it_o who_o by_o exalt_v the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n will_v willing_o depress_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n 8._o as_o for_o the_o knigt'_v other_o argument_n or_o his_o place_n of_o scripture_n of_o the_o king_n of_o the_o gentile_n i_o see_v not_o what_o it_o be_v that_o he_o will_v say_v to_o the_o purpose_n our_o saviour_n indeed_o tell_v his_o disciple_n he_o will_v not_o have_v they_o imitate_v the_o domineer_a manner_n of_o government_n of_o those_o king_n but_o contrariwise_o that_o he_o that_o be_v chief_a among_o they_o shall_v be_v as_o a_o servant_n to_o the_o rest_n which_o council_n be_v &_o have_v ever_o be_v most_o observe_v by_o the_o bishop_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v of_o rome_n who_o therefore_o have_v use_v to_o style_v themselves_o serws_fw-la servorum_n dei._n the_o servant_z of_o the_o servants_z of_o god_n but_o will_v this_o knight_n therefore_o have_v it_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o this_o humility_n there_o must_v not_o be_v any_o superiority_n that_o because_o he_o must_v carry_v himself_o like_o a_o servant_n therefore_o he_o must_v not_o feed_v the_o lamb_n and_o sheep_n of_o christ_n if_o he_o mean_v this_o as_o i_o see_v not_o what_o else_o he_o shall_v mean_v i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o conceit_n worthy_a of_o he_o but_o beside_o what_o a_o fine_a line_n of_o succession_n be_v here_o do_v the_o pope_n succeed_v either_o phocas_n or_o any_o other_o king_n or_o king_n of_o the_o gentile_n to_o what_o purpose_n then_o be_v they_o name_v 9_o but_o to_o go_v yet_o on_o with_o his_o toy_n he_o deduce_v our_o worship_n of_o image_n from_o the_o basilidian_o and_o carpocratian_o who_o say_v he_o do_v worship_n image_n and_o profess_v that_o they_o have_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n make_v by_o pilate_n for_o which_o he_o cit_v s._n irenaeus_n in_o the_o margin_n his_o own_o doctrine_n he_o derive_v from_o the_o second_o of_o the_o ten_o commandment_n according_a to_o his_o own_o translation_n thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o any_o grave_a image_n here_o again_o the_o knight_n give_v yet_o more_o ample_a testimony_n of_o his_o notorious_a naughty_a deal_n for_o why_o when_o he_o say_v that_o these_o haeretique_n have_v the_o picture_n of_o christ_n make_v as_o they_o say_v by_o pilate_n why_o i_o say_v can_v not_o he_o have_v go_v on_o with_o s._n irenaeus_n who_o speak_v of_o that_o and_o other_o picture_n both_o paint_v and_o carve_v which_o they_o have_v say_v have_v coronant_fw-la 24._o iren._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 24._o &_o proponunt_fw-la eas_fw-la cum_fw-la imaginibus_fw-la mundi_fw-la philosophoram_n to_o wit_n cum_fw-la imagine_v pythâgorae_n &_o platonis_fw-la &_o aristotelus_fw-la &_o reliquorum_fw-la &_o reliquam_fw-la obseruationem_fw-la circa_fw-la eas_fw-la similiter_fw-la ut_fw-la gentes_fw-la faciunt_fw-la they_o crown_v they_o and_o propose_v they_o with_o the_o image_n of_o the_o philosopher_n of_o the_o world_n to_o wit_n pythagoras_n plato_n aristotle_n and_o the_o rest_n and_o use_v such_o other_o observation_n towards_o they_o as_o the_o
not_o much_o short_a of_o idolatry_n for_o tertull_n doubt_v not_o to_o aequal_a they_o nec_fw-la dubitare_fw-la quis_fw-la debet_fw-la neque_fw-la ab_fw-la idolatria_fw-la distare_fw-la haereses_fw-la 40._o tertul._n de_fw-fr praeser_fw-ge cap._n 40._o quum_fw-la &_o auctoris_fw-la &_o operis_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la sint_fw-la cvius_fw-la &_o idolatria_fw-la neither_o ought_v any_o man_n to_o doubt_n that_o heresy_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o idolatry_n since_o their_o author_n and_o work_n be_v the_o same_o which_o idolatry_n nay_o in_o some_o respect_v haeresy_n go_v beyond_o idolatry_n as_o s._n thomas_n well_o show_v and_o s._n hierome_n say_v absolute_o and_o without_o limitation_n esai_n 2.2_o q._n lib._n 7._o in_o esai_n nemo_fw-la tam_fw-la impius_fw-la est_fw-la quem_fw-la haereticus_fw-la impietate_fw-la non_fw-la uincat_fw-la there_o be_v no_o man_n so_o impious_a who_o a_o heretic_n do_v not_o surpass_v in_o impiety_n therefore_o your_o comfort_n be_v vanity_n since_o your_o profession_n be_v impiety_n and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o matter_n 16._o now_o if_o any_o man_n will_v but_o lend_v a_o ear_n he_o shall_v hear_v a_o fine_a conceit_n of_o you_o whereby_o to_o prove_v your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a and_o what_o not_o that_o be_v by_o answer_v our_o question_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n in_o this_o manner_n of_o the_o four_o creed_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o apostle_n of_o nice_a of_o athanasius_n and_o pius_n 4._o you_o believe_v 3._o which_o be_v believe_v before_o luther_n of_o the_o 7._o sacrament_n you_o believe_v 2._o which_o we_o confess_v also_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n of_o scripture_n you_o acknowledge_v 22._o book_n for_o canonical_a which_o we_o allow_v &_o which_o be_v so_o believe_v before_o luther_n tyme._n 19_o why_o rather_o 7._o counsel_n then_o 17._o or_o 19_o of_o the_o 7._o general_a counsel_n 4._o be_v confirm_v by_o parliament_n in_o england_n not_o call_v by_o luther_n the_o tradition_n universal_o receive_v and_o which_o we_o confess_v to_o be_v apostolical_a be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n to_o you_o as_o you_o say_v not_o from_o luther_n the_o prayer_n in_o your_o common_a prayer_n book_n be_v the_o same_o say_v you_o in_o substance_n with_o our_o ancient_a liturgy_n not_o broach_v by_o luther_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v from_o the_o apostle_n not_o from_o luther_n if_o therefore_o say_v you_o the_o 3._o creed_n the_o two_o principal_a sacrament_n the_o 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n the_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o ancient_a liturgy_n the_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n be_v ancient_o &_o universal_o receive_v in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n even_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n be_v it_o not_o a_o silly_a and_o senseless_a question_n to_o demand_v where_o our_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n all_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n knight_n and_o most_o part_n your_o very_a word_n wherein_o you_o seem_v to_o think_v you_o have_v so_o satisfy_v our_o question_n that_o in_o your_o judgement_n it_o be_v silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o demand_v it_o any_o more_o but_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v on_o the_o contrary_a side_n what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a thing_n it_o be_v for_o you_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o discourse_n to_o yourself_o and_o much_o more_o so_o to_o publish_v it_o to_o other_o man_n as_o if_o any_o body_n else_o have_v so_o little_a wit_n as_o to_o be_v please_v therewith_o for_o be_v it_o so_o that_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v ancient_o teach_v as_o they_o be_v now_o teach_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o follow_v that_o you_o have_v a_o church_n before_o luther_n nothing_o less_o for_o a_o church_n consist_v not_o of_o point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o faith_n only_o but_o much_o more_o of_o man_n profess_v such_o and_o such_o sacrament_n &_o rite_n such_o a_o faith_n &_o religion_n if_o therefore_o you_o will_v show_v we_o a_o church_n you_o must_v show_v we_o such_o a_o company_n of_o man_n which_o till_o you_o can_v show_v the_o question_n remain_v unanswear_v if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v the_o same_o man_n of_o which_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v then_o consist_v which_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v in_o that_o you_o tell_v we_o your_o church_n be_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n i_o answer_v that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o as_o now_o since_o luther_n time_n you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n make_v a_o church_n such_o as_o it_o be_v by_o yourselves_o so_o you_o must_v show_v a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o like_a manner_n distinct_a in_o former_a time_n from_o we_o and_o your_o antiquity_n be_v only_o to_o begin_v from_o such_o a_o time_n as_o you_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n from_o we_o you_o must_v not_o think_v to_o stand_v and_o contend_v with_o we_o for_o antiquity_n and_o then_o pretend_v our_o antiquity_n to_o be_v you_o but_o you_o must_v show_v a_o distinct_a succession_n of_o bishop_n a_o distinct_a common_a wealth_n or_o people_n profess_v that_o faith_n only_o which_o you_o believe_v &_o practise_v those_o rite_n ceremony_n and_o sacrament_n only_a which_o you_o have_v when_o you_o have_v do_v this_o you_o may_v better_o demand_v what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a question_n it_o be_v to_o ask_v where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n 17._o but_o because_o you_o mention_v your_o be_v in_o former_a age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o only_o here_o but_o else_o where_o often_o in_o this_o your_o treatise_n as_o if_o thereby_o you_o will_v make_v your_o church_n seem_v one_o and_o the_o same_o with_o we_o or_o at_o least_o to_o descend_v from_o we_o 36._o tertull._n de_fw-fr praesâ—r_fw-fr cap._n 36._o and_o so_o to_o participate_v of_o our_o visibility_n and_o universality_n i_o will_v allege_v you_o a_o say_n of_o tertullians_n which_o do_v so_o full_o answer_v the_o matter_n that_o you_o will_v take_v but_o little_a comfort_n in_o the_o manner_n of_o your_o descent_n thus_o it_o be_v tertullian_n have_v allege_v for_o his_o eight_o prescription_n against_o haeretique_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolic_a church_n which_o then_o keep_v the_o very_a authentical_a letter_n write_v to_o they_o by_o the_o apostle_n and_o especial_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o he_o call_v happy_a for_o that_o to_o it_o the_o apostle_n pour_v forth_o all_o their_o whole_a doctrine_n together_o with_o their_o blood_n and_o there_o put_v down_o a_o brief_a sum_n of_o some_o special_a point_n thereof_o conclude_v in_o these_o word_n haec_fw-la est_fw-la institutio_fw-la non_fw-la dico_fw-la iam_fw-la quae_fw-la futuras_fw-la haereses_fw-la praenunciabat_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la qua_fw-la haereses_fw-la prodierunt_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la ex_fw-la illa_fw-la ex_fw-la quo_fw-la factae_fw-la sunt_fw-la adversus_fw-la illum_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la oliva_fw-la nucleo_fw-la mitis_fw-la &_o opimae_fw-la &_o necessariae_fw-la asper_fw-la oleaster_n exoritur_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la papavere_fw-la fici_fw-la gratissimae_fw-la &_o suavissimae_fw-la ventosa_fw-la &_o vana_fw-la caprificus_fw-la exurgit_fw-la ita_fw-la &_o haereses_fw-la de_fw-la nostro_fw-la fructificaverunt_fw-la non_fw-la nostrae_fw-la degeneres_fw-la veritatis_fw-la grano_fw-la &_o mendacio_fw-la siluestre_n this_o be_v the_o institution_n i_o do_v not_o say_v now_o which_o do_v foretell_v heresy_n to_o come_v but_o out_o of_o which_o heresy_n have_v come_v but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o it_o from_o the_o time_n that_o they_o become_v against_o it_o even_o out_o of_o the_o kernel_n of_o the_o mild_a fat_a and_o necessary_a or_o profitable_a olive_n the_o sour_a bastard_n olive_n grow_v from_o the_o seed_n alsoe_o of_o the_o most_o pleasant_a and_o sweet_a figtree_n arise_v the_o windy_a and_o vain_a or_o empty_a wild_a figtree_n and_o so_o have_v heresy_n fructify_v out_o of_o we_o but_o they_o not_o we_o degenerate_v from_o the_o grain_n of_o truth_n and_o become_v wild_a by_o untruth_n or_o lie_v thus_o far_o tertullian_n acknowledge_v indeed_o that_o heresy_n have_v their_o beginning_n from_o we_o that_o be_v that_o the_o man_n that_o broach_v they_o come_v out_o of_o our_o church_n but_o that_o they_o be_v no_o more_o we_o when_o they_o begin_v once_o to_o be_v against_o us._n and_o that_o the_o dishonour_n thereof_o redound_v not_o to_o we_o but_o to_o themselves_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o two_o similitude_n of_o the_o olive_n and_o figgetree_n compare_v we_o to_o the_o true_a and_o fruitful_a tree_n and_o they_o to_o the_o bastard_n vain_a and_o wild_a tree_n issue_v out_o of_o the_o former_a all_o which_o if_o you_o consider_v well_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o will_v find_v it_o but_o a_o small_a honour_n for_o you_o to_o have_v come_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n though_o you_o have_v lie_v never_o so_o long_o in_o the_o very_a bosom_n thereof_o as_o you_o
first_o make_v she_o visible_a which_o be_v that_o we_o desire_v and_o so_o sir_n you_o have_v spin_a a_o fair_a thread_n you_o will_v fain_o make_v your_o church_n visible_a before_o luther_n and_o you_o make_v it_o invisible_a you_o look_v well_o about_o you_o mean_v while_n now_o that_o which_o you_o say_v next_o of_o take_v away_o the_o 3._o creed_n which_o you_o profess_v two_o sacrament_n 4._o counsel_n and_o 22._o book_n of_o scripture_n without_o which_o our_o church_n will_v be_v a_o poor_a senseless_a carcase_n be_v most_o foolish_a for_o who_o do_v speak_v of_o take_v they_o away_o who_o do_v say_v they_o be_v you_o you_o will_v not_o say_v yourself_o but_o you_o have_v they_o from_o we_o what_o then_o do_v you_o talk_v of_o take_v they_o away_o and_o whereas_o you_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o we_o now_o style_v they_o chaff_n and_o new_a heresy_n it_o be_v to_o shameless_a a_o untruth_n for_o any_o man_n to_o tell_v but_o yourself_o and_o therefore_o deserve_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v sir_n humphrey_n lind'_v you_o understand_v my_o meaning_n sir_n 21._o one_o little_a thing_n more_o there_o be_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v that_o whereas_o some_o of_o we_o have_v term_v your_o religion_n negative_a in_o regard_n it_o consist_v most_o in_o denial_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o we_o teach_v as_o they_o may_v well_o call_v it_o you_o will_v retort_v that_o term_n upon_o we_o because_o we_o deny_v many_o thing_n which_o you_o affirm_v but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n of_o any_o moment_n for_o they_o who_o call_v your_o religion_n negative_a do_v not_o mean_v that_o you_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o positive_a erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o most_o of_o your_o doctrine_n i_o mean_v that_o which_o be_v proper_o you_o not_o take_v from_o we_o be_v negative_a and_o even_o those_o affirmative_a proposition_n which_o you_o teach_v if_o you_o teach_v any_o be_v but_o contradiction_n of_o other_o thing_n which_o we_o teach_v be_v not_o or_o may_v not_o be_v do_v in_o which_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v also_o call_v negative_a but_o for_o we_o it_o be_v nothing_o so_o for_o it_o consist_v of_o positive_a point_n deliver_v not_o by_o way_n of_o opposition_n or_o denial_n for_o it_o be_v before_o all_o haeresy_n though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o have_v many_o negative_a proposition_n and_o precept_n beside_o out_o of_o every_o positive_a point_n a_o man_n may_v infer_v the_o contrary_a negative_a which_o yet_o make_v not_o that_o a_o negative_a as_o you_o do_v in_o some_o of_o those_o proposition_n which_o you_o allege_v for_o example_n you_o make_v this_o a_o negative_a point_n that_o we_o deny_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n to_o remain_v after_o consecration_n whereas_o that_o be_v only_o a_o negative_a infer_v out_o of_o this_o positive_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n which_o be_v our_o doctrine_n &_o ever_o be_v before_o any_o haeresy_n arise_v but_o a_o haeresy_n arise_v to_o the_o contrary_a as_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n remain_v after_o consecration_n the_o church_n out_o of_o that_o positive_a point_n deduce_v this_o negative_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n do_v not_o remain_v for_o destruction_n of_o that_o haeresy_n but_o of_o this_o there_o be_v enough_o and_o of_o this_o whole_a section_n wherein_o the_o gentle_a reader_n may_v see_v whether_o you_o sir_n knight_n do_v not_o deserve_v the_o name_n and_o punishment_n of_o a_o haeretique_n by_o your_o own_o doom_n not_o have_v prove_v either_o the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n or_o certainty_n or_o safety_n of_o your_o protestant_a faith_n out_o of_o any_o author_n of_o we_o or_o even_o of_o your_o own_o or_o any_o show_n of_o reason_n or_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o purpose_n though_o you_o have_v take_v more_o liberty_n to_o abuse_v those_o three_o author_n which_o you_o allege_v &_o utter_v such_o gross_a falsitye_n than_o i_o do_v not_o say_v honesty_n but_o even_a shame_n will_v give_v a_o man_n leave_v but_o which_o be_v most_o to_o be_v wonder_v you_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o similitude_n as_o prove_v the_o contrary_a which_o be_v not_o any_o praise_n of_o goodness_n for_o you_o intend_v it_o not_o but_o a_o argument_n of_o the_o necessity_n whereto_o you_o be_v drive_v by_o the_o badness_n of_o your_o cause_n and_o a_o dispraise_n of_o your_o judgement_n in_o that_o you_o see_v not_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o 9_o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o protestant_n and_o the_o roman_a faith_n in_o the_o particular_a chapter_n ix_o 1._o our_o knight_n have_v promise_v to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o novelty_n of_o we_o in_o general_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o own_o author_n &_o church_n and_o perform_v it_o brave_o forsooth_o as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o former_a chapter_n he_o profess_v now_o in_o this_o nine_o section_n 9_o chap._n 9_o to_o prove_v the_o same_o in_o like_a sort_n out_o of_o our_o author_n in_o diverse_a particular_a point_n as_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n and_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n private_a mass_n etc._n etc._n treat_v every_o one_o here_o ex_fw-la professo_fw-la and_o several_o in_o distinct_a paragraphe_n who_o method_n i_o shall_v also_o follow_v in_o answer_v of_o he_o §._o 1._o of_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o examine_v 1._o this_o point_n of_o his_o protestant_a justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o knight_n prove_v as_o he_o say_v out_o of_o a_o book_n publish_v in_o anselmes_n time_n which_o be_v call_v ordo_fw-la baptizandi_fw-la &_o visitandi_fw-la &c._n &c._n of_o which_o he_o cit_v two_o or_o three_o several_a edition_n to_o fill_v up_o the_o margin_n with_o 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say_v out_o of_o this_o book_n and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o first_o the_o knight_n do_v not_o show_v we_o any_o authority_n for_o this_o book_n or_o that_o s._n anselme_n have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o it_o nor_o tell_v we_o of_o any_o ancient_a edition_n before_o the_o year_n 1556._o but_o only_a a_o mention_n thereof_o by_o cassâ—â—der_n a_o classical_a author_n indeed_o and_o of_o the_o first_o class_n in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la in_o a_o appendix_n alsoe_o to_o a_o forbid_a book_n false_o call_v io._n roffensis_n de_fw-fr fiducia_fw-la &_o misericordia_fw-la dei_fw-la than_o which_o he_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o disgrace_v it_o 2._o beside_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la of_o the_o spanish_a inquisition_n will_v those_o word_n of_o comfort_n as_o he_o call_v they_o speak_v by_o the_o priest_n to_o be_v blot_v out_o which_o be_v answer_n enough_o see_v the_o knight_n be_v to_o 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this_o very_a place_n which_o you_o so_o often_o repeat_v out_o of_o s._n paul_n to_o himself_o he_o answer_v it_o by_o expound_v the_o word_n praeter_fw-la in_o the_o same_o sense_n with_o contra_fw-la which_o stand_v very_o well_o also_o with_o the_o propriety_n of_o the_o latin_a word_n and_o for_o the_o greek_a it_o the_o same_o both_o here_o gal._n v._n 8._o and_o rom._n 16.17_o where_o there_o be_v a_o like_a sentence_n of_o s._n paul_n wish_v the_o roman_n to_o mark_n &_o avoid_v such_o as_o put_v scandal_n and_o stumble_a block_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o word_n i_o say_v be_v the_o same_o 1_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o a_o accusative_a case_n which_o do_v signify_v as_o well_o if_o not_o better_a contra_fw-la then_o praeter_fw-la and_o in_o your_o own_o bible_n you_o translate_v it_o in_o that_o place_n to_o the_o roman_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n i_o see_v not_o therefore_o why_o you_o shall_v not_o understand_v 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tyme._n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o almost_o half_a this_o section_n in_o all_o which_o i_o must_v appeal_v gentle_a reader_n to_o thy_o indifferent_a judgement_n whether_o there_o be_v a_o true_a word_n or_o no_o for_o suppose_v that_o thou_o have_v read_v what_o be_v go_v before_o thou_o will_v easy_o see_v that_o though_o it_o be_v not_o my_o task_n here_o to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n or_o universality_n or_o any_o thing_n else_o but_o only_o to_o answer_n the_o fond_a objection_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n yet_o i_o have_v accidental_o and_o by_o the_o way_n prove_v the_o same_o in_o most_o point_n and_o by_o the_o same_o author_n and_o place_n which_o he_o bring_v against_o we_o and_o his_o fail_v in_o his_o proof_n of_o our_o novelty_n be_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o his_o own_o novelty_n 2._o what_o a_o shameful_a boast_n than_o be_v it_o for_o he_o to_o say_v that_o most_o of_o our_o point_n now_o teach_v be_v unknown_a 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the_o four_o vow_n of_o the_o jesuit_n whereby_o they_o special_o bound_v themselves_o in_o obedience_n to_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a to_o go_v in_o mission_n to_o any_o part_n of_o the_o world_n whether_o infidel_n or_o haeretique_n which_o be_v a_o little_a different_a at_o least_o from_o that_o which_o he_o talk_v of_o a_o oath_n to_o defend_v the_o papacy_n 3._o the_o three_o thing_n in_o his_o praeface_n be_v want_v of_o unity_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v us._n whereof_o i_o only_o say_v that_o as_o we_o confess_v there_o may_v be_v difference_n of_o judgment_n before_o a_o definition_n of_o faith_n so_o let_v he_o show_v the_o division_n after_o such_o definition_n let_v he_o name_v that_o man_n and_o we_o
will_v give_v he_o leave_v to_o take_v he_o for_o his_o own_o to_o increase_v his_o church_n and_o make_v up_o his_o number_n of_o learned_a man_n for_o no_o man_n but_o a_o haeretique_n can_v dispute_v against_o what_o be_v once_o define_v catholic_a doctor_n may_v indeed_o differ_v in_o opinion_n so_o long_o as_o a_o thing_n be_v undefined_a for_o so_o long_o it_o be_v not_o faith_n but_o when_o it_o be_v once_o define_v they_o must_v be_v silent_a and_o concur_v all_o in_o one_o because_o than_o it_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n which_o agreement_n and_o concurrence_n of_o opinion_n in_o such_o a_o case_n show_v there_o be_v still_o before_o a_o kind_n of_o radical_a union_n that_o be_v a_o praeparation_n of_o mind_n or_o promptness_n to_o submit_v to_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n when_o it_o shall_v show_v itself_o wherefore_o whatsoever_o he_o or_o any_o man_n else_o shall_v say_v of_o our_o difference_n be_v but_o argument_n for_o the_o unity_n and_o certainty_n of_o our_o belief_n 4._o now_o for_o his_o review_v of_o all_o he_o 8._o point_n it_o be_v but_o a_o review_v indeed_o wherein_o he_o take_v all_o that_o he_o say_v before_o for_o true_a as_o if_o he_o have_v carry_v all_o smooth_a before_o he_o which_o prove_v quite_o contrary_a all_o this_o review_v and_o discourse_v build_v thereon_o fall_v to_o the_o ground_n neither_o will_v i_o stand_v examine_v they_o all_o here_o again_o but_o remit_v the_o reader_n to_o what_o be_v say_v particular_o of_o each_o one_o in_o his_o own_o place_n only_o here_o i_o will_v reflect_v upon_o his_o conclusion_n which_o be_v a_o witness_v of_o man_n and_o angel_n that_o we_o have_v no_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n for_o proof_n of_o our_o article_n for_o his_o protestation_n and_o witnessing_n there_o be_v many_o example_n go_v before_o which_o show_n how_o foolish_a false_a and_o hypocritical_a they_o be_v of_o this_o therefore_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o it_o may_v go_v with_o the_o rest_n but_o 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which_o they_o teach_v contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o divine_n though_o in_o matter_n not_o define_v we_o say_v they_o be_v reprove_v not_o by_o one_o or_o two_o but_o by_o all_o the_o whole_a current_n of_o catholic_a divine_n what_o be_v this_o then_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n or_o do_v it_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n to_o be_v ancient_a or_o universal_a nay_o do_v it_o prove_v it_o any_o doctrine_n at_o all_o for_o what_o can_v any_o man_n tell_v by_o this_o what_o he_o believe_v much_o less_o whither_o it_o be_v true_a or_o no_o which_o he_o believe_v may_v not_o another_o man_n that_o deni_v the_o protestant-lord's-supper_n prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n or_o rather_o his_o denial_n of_o doctrine_n as_o the_o knight_n do_v he_o and_o by_o the_o same_o argument_n because_o a_o man_n deni_v one_o point_n of_o we_o do_v he_o present_o allow_v all_o he_o may_v not_o he_o find_v a_o three_o way_n of_o his_o own_o different_a from_o both_o and_o if_o the_o reader_n please_v to_o mark_v it_o all_o the_o knight_n proof_n of_o antiquity_n be_v the_o denial_n or_o doubt_n make_v by_o some_o one_o of_o our_o writer_n though_o that_o one_o of_o we_o be_v much_o more_o against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n as_o a_o man_n may_v see_v both_o in_o caietane_n scotus_n and_o the_o rest_n as_o i_o say_v before_o his_o discourse_n then_o in_o this_o be_v as_o devoid_a of_o reason_n as_o his_o doctrine_n be_v of_o antiquity_n 5._o in_o his_o â—_o point_n he_o bring_v a_o great_a many_o authoritye_n to_o prove_v that_o ancient_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n with_o the_o priest_n which_o we_o grant_v and_o ask_v again_o what_o this_o derogate_v from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n or_o how_o it_o prove_v that_o a_o priest_n be_v bind_v to_o forbear_v say_v mass_n if_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o communicate_v or_o that_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o unlawful_a for_o he_o to_o say_v mass_n in_o that_o case_n or_o how_o it_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n that_o deni_v all_o mass_n nay_o do_v not_o we_o moreover_o ex_fw-la abundanti_fw-la prove_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o people_n daily_a communion_n do_v cease_v even_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o yet_o that_o some_o priest_n do_v say_v mass_n daily_a do_v not_o we_o then_o prove_v our_o antiquity_n not_o only_o by_o disproof_n of_o his_o erroneous_a novelty_n but_o even_o by_o positive_a proof_n draw_v from_o antiquity_n concern_v the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n he_o say_v some_o teach_v there_o be_v 3._o some_o 4._o some_o 5._o some_o 6_o that_o some_o say_v of_o this_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n other_o of_o that_o some_o say_v this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o scripture_n another_o not_o out_o of_o the_o other_o now_o suppose_v all_o this_o be_v true_a as_o i_o have_v disprove_v he_o almost_o in_o 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in_o both_o and_o we_o grant_v it_o but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v also_o use_v in_o one_o many_o time_n and_o may_v have_v be_v more_o and_o may_v also_o be_v now_o in_o one_o or_o both_o as_o it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o the_o church_n according_a to_o diverse_a circumstance_n in_o who_o power_n be_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n how_o do_v the_o affirm_v of_o the_o former_a part_n or_o deny_v of_o the_o late_a prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o administer_v in_o one_o kind_n for_o public_a prayer_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o author_n it_o be_v use_v in_o a_o know_a tongue_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n we_o grant_v it_o and_o say_v
it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o disprove_v our_o worship_n which_o we_o allow_v or_o how_o the_o reprehension_n of_o abuse_n in_o some_o of_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o catholic_n suppose_v there_o be_v some_o such_o abuse_n prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o image_n break_v or_o the_o truth_n and_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n though_o his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v but_o only_o the_o denial_n of_o we_o now_o we_o prove_v over_o and_o above_o out_o of_o ancient_a father_n and_o counsel_n the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o worship_v of_o saint_n and_o their_o picture_n last_o of_o indulgence_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n for_o the_o antiquity_n of_o they_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o as_o this_o notwithstanding_o these_o very_a man_n do_v not_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n for_o want_n of_o such_o proof_n so_o other_o also_o prove_v the_o ancient_a use_n of_o they_o even_o out_o of_o other_o most_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n howsoever_o the_o controversy_n among_o those_o divine_n be_v not_o of_o the_o indulgence_n themselves_o or_o doctrine_n but_o only_o of_o the_o use_n of_o they_o or_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o one_o or_o two_o divine_n do_v think_v amiss_o of_o they_o do_v that_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n may_v not_o those_o very_a divine_n be_v against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n what_o ancient_a author_n of_o authority_n have_v he_o bring_v to_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n not_o durand_n nor_o any_o man_n else_o whosoever_o be_v by_o he_o pretend_v to_o think_v hard_a of_o they_o &_o though_o he_o have_v durand_n whole_o for_o he_o how_o can_v his_o bare_a authority_n or_o say_n make_v the_o deny_v doctrine_n ancient_a be_v but_o 400._o year_n ago_o or_o universal_a be_v but_o one_o man_n and_o contradict_v by_o other_o 6._o and_o thus_o have_v make_v a_o review_v opposite_a to_o he_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o apostolic_a because_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n 32._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 32._o edant_fw-la ergo_fw-la say_v he_o origines_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la suarum_fw-la evoluant_fw-la ordinem_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la suorum_fw-la ita_fw-la per_fw-la successiones_fw-la ab_fw-la initio_fw-la decurrentem_fw-la ut_fw-la primus_fw-la ille_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aliquem_fw-la ex_fw-la apostolis_n etc._n etc._n let_v they_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n let_v they_o unroull_a or_o lay_v open_a the_o order_n or_o catalogue_n of_o their_o bishop_n so_o run_v by_o succession_n from_o the_o beginning_n that_o that_o first_o bishop_n have_v for_o author_n or_o praedessor_n some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n who_o yet_o have_v persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o in_o this_o manner_n the_o apostolic_a church_n draw_v down_o their_o pedigree_n as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n recount_v polycarpe_n place_v by_o john_n the_o roman_a church_n clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v on_o your_o behalf_n that_o your_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o a_o more_o stable_n and_o sure_a foundation_n than_o the_o now_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v more_o fruiteful_a and_o profitable_a and_o every_o way_n more_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a for_o the_o belief_n of_o every_o christian_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o believer_n which_o you_o prove_v lay_v way_n for_o a_o ground_n what_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o do_v receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o which_o one_o tenet_n you_o say_v we_o overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o you_o exemplify_v in_o baptism_n wherein_o if_o there_o want_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o baptizer_n the_o baptise_a be_v still_o a_o heathen_a and_o in_o state_n of_o damnation_n so_o of_o order_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordain_a fail_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n and_o consequenty_n if_o this_o intention_n be_v want_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o pope_n all_o succeed_a ordination_n will_v be_v void_a so_o also_o of_o matrimony_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n want_n it_o be_v but_o fornication_n etc._n etc._n thus_o you_o roll_v on_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o your_o discourse_n but_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o have_v a_o word_n or_o two_o with_o you_o before_o you_o go_v far_o you_o give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o you_o observe_v any_o order_n or_o number_n of_o your_o jurour_n as_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o jury_n whereupon_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v that_o you_o use_v this_o phrase_n of_o summons_n and_o grand_a inquest_n for_o the_o ever_o honour_a memory_n of_o your_o dear_a decease_a father_n who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o famous_a grand_a jury_n man_n of_o middlesex_n in_o his_o time_n from_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v learn_v only_o the_o name_n of_o a_o grand_a inquest_n but_o not_o the_o right_a order_n of_o impanel_a your_o jury_n nor_o even_o the_o right_a number_n of_o your_o jurour_n the_o foreman_n of_o your_o jury_n though_o you_o call_v he_o not_o so_o be_v bellarmine_n who_o you_o make_v to_o give_v up_o his_o verdict_n against_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o say_v no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n which_o you_o say_v overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o faith_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n say_v true_o be_v you_o in_o earnest_n or_o in_o jest_n i_o think_v by_o the_o matter_n you_o shall_v mean_v only_o in_o jest_n it_o be_v so_o idle_a but_o though_o this_o be_v your_o best_a excuse_n yet_o because_o you_o may_v take_v that_o ill_a
what_o merit_n but_o it_o be_v true_a walden_n as_o suarez_n well_o note_v though_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o this_o controversy_n but_o against_o the_o pelagian_n be_v somewhat_o too_o strict_a 16._o v._o bell._n lib._n 5_o the_o iustif_a cap._n 16._o and_o though_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o so_o well_o like_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o merit_n as_o alsoe_o some_o other_o divine_n do_v not_o so_o approve_v the_o word_n meritum_fw-la de_fw-la condigno_fw-la though_o in_o the_o thing_n itself_o they_o all_o agree_v to_o wit_n that_o aeternal_a life_n be_v give_v to_o man_n as_o the_o reward_n of_o their_o good_a work_n which_o be_v all_o that_o other_o mean_v by_o condign_a merit_n your_o last_o authority_n be_v a_o place_n of_o bell._n which_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o i_o wonder_v why_o you_o shall_v allege_v for_o your_o doctrine_n against_o we_o for_o it_o be_v we_o as_o well_o or_o more_o than_o you_o neither_o do_v we_o condemn_v you_o for_o not_o trust_v in_o your_o work_n 12._o chap._n 12._o or_o trust_v whole_o in_o christ_n if_o so_o be_v you_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o necessity_n and_o efficacy_n of_o good_a work_n for_o purchase_v grace_n and_o glory_n and_o that_o be_v your_o doctrine_n which_o you_o shall_v show_v to_o be_v safe_a but_o that_o you_o can_v nor_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o go_v about_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n all_o your_o proof_n sail_v in_o every_o point_n your_o vaunt_a conclusion_n of_o the_o safety_n profitt_a and_o comfort_n of_o your_o belief_n vanish_v into_o smoke_n as_o the_o rest_n do_v of_o the_o 12._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o our_o adversary_n convict_v by_o the_o evident_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n either_o ridiculous_o elude_v they_o or_o plain_o reject_v they_o chapter_n xii_o 1._o it_o can_v be_v unknown_a to_o any_o man_n of_o learning_n or_o that_o have_v but_o any_o the_o lest_o acquaintance_n with_o the_o controversy_n of_o this_o age_n what_o great_a advantage_n we_o catholic_n have_v by_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n how_o high_o we_o esteem_v they_o what_o confidence_n we_o place_n in_o they_o and_o how_o we_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o decision_n of_o our_o controversy_n and_o how_o small_a respect_n on_o the_o other_o side_n haeretique_n show_v either_o to_o their_o person_n or_o writing_n as_o be_v in_o their_o opinion_n but_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o error_n or_o rather_o how_o contemptible_o they_o speak_v of_o they_o for_o proof_n whereof_o a_o man_n need_v not_o go_v far_o than_o that_o little_a treatise_n of_o campian_n 10._o reason_n the_o 5._o of_o which_o be_v of_o the_o father_n where_o a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o the_o haeretique_n say_v of_o they_o they_o call_v one_o a_o old_a dote_a man_n another_o they_o call_v a_o childish_a writer_n a_o three_o they_o call_v a_o dolt_n and_o forsake_v of_o god_n a_o four_o they_o call_v a_o fable_a that_o know_v not_o what_o he_o say_v a_o five_o they_o say_v be_v bewitch_v by_o the_o devil_n a_o sixth_o they_o say_v be_v as_o damn_v as_o the_o devil_n injurious_a to_o the_o apostle_n blasphemous_a wicked_a impious_a and_o what_o father_n be_v these_o think_v you_o that_o they_o name_v thus_o who_o but_o denis_n the_o areopagite_n hippolytus_n cyprian_n gregory_n nazianzene_n ambrose_n and_o hierome_n and_o for_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n they_o say_v this_o man_n be_v like_o dream_n and_o most_o pernicious_a another_o have_v foul_a wen_n another_o write_v like_o a_o mad_a or_o frantic_a man_n another_o bring_v forth_o darnel_n and_o dregs_n other_o have_v leave_v blasphemy_n to_o posterity_n and_o the_o like_a one_o haeretique_n prefer_v one_o caluin_n before_o a_o 100_o augustine_n another_o care_v not_o for_o a_o thousand_o augustine_n cyprian_n church_n who_o very_a word_n and_o place_n be_v quote_v by_o f._n campian_n and_o yet_o here_o be_v a_o knight_n of_o the_o same_o brood_n that_o undertake_v forsooth_o in_o a_o particular_a section_n to_o prove_v that_o we_o establish_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n &_o decline_v the_o certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o our_o own_o by_o say_v that_o we_o avoid_v the_o proof_n of_o father_n wherein_o he_o show_v himself_o more_o &_o more_o impertinent_a the_o far_o he_o go_v for_o whereas_o there_o have_v be_v sometime_o one_o father_n that_o have_v err_v or_o hold_v some_o singular_a opinion_n different_a from_o the_o common_a of_o other_o father_n &_o one_o or_o two_o ancient_a writer_n that_o have_v even_o become_v haeretique_n because_o our_o author_n note_v those_o thing_n so_o as_o no_o haeretique_n can_v but_o acknowledge_v that_o to_o be_v true_a which_o we_o say_v nay_o and_o he_o himself_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o say_v against_o we_o he_o account_v this_o forsooth_o to_o be_v elude_v of_o the_o father_n or_o reject_v their_o evident_a testimony_n neither_o do_v he_o in_o all_o this_o section_n bring_v one_o argument_n or_o one_o word_n of_o authority_n to_o disprove_v any_o thing_n that_o any_o author_n of_o we_o have_v say_v nor_o do_v he_o allege_v even_o the_o reason_n which_o our_o author_n give_v of_o their_o say_n whereas_o they_o give_v very_o many_o &_o solid_a reason_n so_o that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v tell_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v in_o this_o manner_n of_o deal_v nor_o what_o to_o say_v to_o he_o for_o even_o the_o word_n of_o our_o author_n which_o he_o bring_v be_v very_o sufficient_a answer_n so_o as_o i_o see_v not_o well_o what_o more_o he_o need_v to_o have_v but_o because_o in_o the_o fashion_n or_o sleight_n manner_n of_o speak_v he_o may_v delude_v some_o of_o his_o reader_n and_o make_v they_o think_v the_o answer_n insufficient_a i_o must_v a_o little_a more_o discover_v his_o impertinency_n in_o leave_v out_o some_o of_o the_o answer_n and_o extenuate_a other_o and_o even_o in_o bring_v some_o nothing_o at_o all_o to_o this_o purpose_n 2._o and_o so_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o say_v in_o the_o first_o place_n that_o touch_v the_o all_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n s._n chrysostome_n say_v the_o church_n be_v know_v tantummodo_fw-la only_a by_o the_o scripture_n &_o hereupon_o he_o ask_v this_o question_n what_o say_v the_o romanist_n to_o this_o authority_n bell._n say_v he_o answer_v it_o be_v probable_a the_o author_n be_v a_o catholic_a but_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v none_o of_o chrysost_n thus_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o find_v not_o this_o place_n object_v in_o bellar._n whereto_o to_o give_v any_o answer_n at_o all_o but_o there_o be_v another_o place_n not_o much_o unlike_a and_o to_o that_o he_o answer_v that_o the_o work_n out_o of_o which_o it_o be_v take_v be_v not_o chrys_n but_o another_o common_o cite_v by_o the_o name_n of_o author_n imperfecti_fw-la who_o bell._n say_v be_v either_o a_o arrian_n himself_o or_o his_o work_n be_v corrupt_v by_o arrian_n and_o this_o he_o do_v not_o bare_o say_v neither_o in_o his_o controversy_n nor_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr scripto_fw-la eccle_n 11._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 11._o which_o be_v the_o book_n here_o cite_v by_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o bellarmine_n say_v the_o thing_n but_o not_o by_o way_n of_o answer_n as_o he_o make_v he_o i_o say_v he_o do_v not_o only_o say_v it_o but_o also_o prove_v it_o by_o a_o plain_a example_n or_o two_o of_o arianisme_n chrysost_n verb._n io._n chrysost_n but_o because_o he_o find_v catholic_a doctrine_n in_o other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o work_n and_o in_o the_o same_o point_n he_o rather_o think_v the_o author_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a and_o his_o work_n only_o to_o have_v be_v corrupt_v and_o this_o be_v most_o true_a and_o evident_a which_o have_v the_o knight_n but_o set_v down_o thus_o plain_o what_o have_v there_o be_v more_o to_o be_v object_v or_o answer_v but_o he_o curtail_v it_o as_o if_o bell._n have_v say_v only_o it_o be_v none_o of_o chrys_n which_o be_v also_o so_o true_a &_o plain_a as_o he_o himself_o can_v gainsay_v it_o and_o yet_o he_o be_v not_o ashamed_a for_o the_o credit_n of_o his_o objection_n to_o call_v it_o chrysostom_n but_o the_o place_n itself_o be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v the_o all_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n as_o it_o prove_v nothing_o at_o all_o but_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o sir_n humphreys_n wit_n for_o how_o many_o way_n may_v it_o be_v answer_v even_o suppose_v that_o the_o word_n be_v s._n chrysostom_n or_o some_o other_o good_a author_n be_v but_o these_o that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n for_o i_o ask_v he_o
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o 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come_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o we_o ground_n many_o point_n upon_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v not_o we_o ground_n other_o upon_o plain_a and_o express_v authority_n of_o scripture_n from_o which_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o fly_v run_v into_o this_o or_o that_o corner_n of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o figurative_a or_o tropical_a interpretation_n or_o even_o deny_v the_o very_a book_n of_o scripture_n nay_o what_o point_n be_v there_o that_o we_o do_v not_o bring_v better_a proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n for_o it_o which_o yet_o we_o need_v not_o than_o you_o can_v bring_v against_o it_o which_o yet_o be_v absolute_o needful_a on_o your_o part_n you_o stand_v so_o upon_o scripture_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n at_o his_o assize_n for_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n this_o be_v a_o speech_n utter_v i_o suppose_v by_o you_o only_o in_o the_o fervour_n of_o a_o haereticall_a spirit_n wherein_o therefore_o a_o man_n be_v not_o to_o look_v for_o much_o truth_n but_o yet_o i_o may_v ask_v wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o do_v the_o pope_n question_n or_o condemn_v christ_n of_o obscurity_n &_o insufficiency_n what_o have_v christ_n leave_v write_v to_o be_v question_v or_o condemn_v his_o apostle_n &_o evangelist_n indeed_o have_v leave_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n of_o which_o some_o be_v hard_a even_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o scripture_n itself_o 3.16_o 2._o pet._n 3.16_o for_o so_o say_v s._n peter_n of_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n which_o say_v he_o the_o unlearned_a and_o inconstant_a do_v abuse_v as_o they_o do_v other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o perdition_n 14._o aug._n conf._n lib._n 12._o c._n 14._o and_o s._n augustine_n find_v so_o much_o difficulty_n in_o the_o first_o verse_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n which_o to_o a_o man_n seem_v be_v as_o easy_a as_o any_o other_o verse_n what_o soever_o that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o wonderful_a profoundness_n thereof_o it_o be_v s._n peter_n and_o s._n aug._n therefore_o that_o call_v to_o their_o assize_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v s._n paul_n &_o moses_n of_o obscurity_n not_o the_o pope_n &_o so_o for_o insufficiency_n if_o any_o body_n condemn_v it_o it_o be_v s._n john_n in_o say_v that_o 2.14_o 2._o thess_n 2.14_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v &_o s._n paul_n in_o willing_a the_o thessalonians_n to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v whither_o by_o speech_n or_o letter_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n or_o writing_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n that_o acknowledge_v that_o hardness_n of_o scripture_n or_o what_o soever_o it_o be_v which_o your_o worship_n be_v please_v to_o call_v insufficiency_n what_o impertinent_a flaunt_n be_v this_o then_o in_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o tell_v we_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o talk_v thus_o of_o assize_n and_o arraign_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v we_o know_v you_o be_v the_o son_n of_o a_o grand-iuror_n who_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o do_v not_o succeed_v in_o the_o place_n since_o you_o have_v the_o term_n so_o ready_a in_o your_o mouth_n 3._o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n i_o likewise_o answer_v you_o for_o our_o rank_v the_o bible_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o prohibit_v book_n as_o you_o say_v we_o do_v that_o it_o be_v false_a and_o false_a again_o for_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o such_o book_n only_o in_o the_o rule_n which_o concern_v the_o index_n there_o be_v mention_v how_o the_o free_a use_n of_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v permit_v 4._o reg._n 4._o but_o for_o the_o latin_a vulgar_a translation_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n
doctrine_n 3._o for_o tradition_n adoration_n of_o image_n saint_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v answer_v before_o so_o likewise_o his_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n but_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o he_o acknowledge_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n not_o to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o for_o what_o be_v this_o but_o even_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o confess_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o isa_n 2._o isay_n the_o prophet_n describe_v the_o church_n under_o the_o type_n of_o a_o mountain_n say_v that_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v unto_o it_o 71._o psal_n 71._o 2._o psal_n 2._o the_o prophet_n david_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o shall_v bear_v sway_n from_o sea_n to_o sea_n â—_o dan._n 2.3_o â—_o that_o god_n will_v give_v he_o nation_n for_o his_o inhaeritance_n and_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n 9â—_n apoc._n 7_o 9â—_n daniel_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n like_o a_o mountain_n grow_v from_o a_o little_a stone_n and_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n s._n john_n see_v a_o multitude_n which_o no_o man_n can_v reckon_v of_o all_o nation_n and_o tribe_n and_o people_n and_o tongue_n this_o be_v also_o the_o thing_n wherein_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v special_o distinguish_v from_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o that_o pertain_v but_o to_o one_o nation_n this_o to_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o all_o the_o father_n proclaim_v nothing_o more_o particular_o s._n augustine_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o a_o knight_n to_o come_v and_o tell_v we_o he_o do_v not_o account_v this_o as_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o his_o church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o have_v mean_v all_o this_o while_n by_o universality_n which_o he_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n the_o principal_n thing_n understand_v by_o universality_n when_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o universality_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n 16.15_o mar._n 16.15_o diverse_a kingdom_n and_o country_n as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n himself_o euntes_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la universum_fw-la praedicate_fw-la evangelium_fw-la omni_fw-la creaturae_fw-la and_o now_o in_o deny_v this_o mark_n to_o belong_v to_o his_o church_n do_v he_o not_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v that_o doctrine_n be_v universal_a that_o be_v teach_v by_o a_o few_o and_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o acknowledge_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v universal_a do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v it_o not_o to_o be_v catholic_a for_o be_v not_o catholic_n and_o universal_a all_o one_o as_o all_o man_n know_v in_o this_o word_n then_o he_o have_v grant_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v all_o that_o ever_o he_o have_v say_v or_o can_v say_v of_o his_o church_n 4._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n which_o he_o purpose_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o argument_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o protestant_n because_o even_a protestant_n agree_v with_o catholic_n in_o this_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n and_o catholic_n deny_v that_o protestant_n can_v be_v save_v this_o argument_n the_o knight_n deni_v be_v sorry_a for_o his_o part_n that_o a_o charitable_a opinion_n on_o the_o protestant_n part_n shall_v give_v any_o romanist_n occasion_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n therefore_o he_o interprete_v that_o say_n to_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o such_o as_o by_o invincible_a ignorance_n resign_v their_o eyesight_n to_o their_o priest_n &_o pastor_n which_o man_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o article_n of_o christian_a belief_n without_o opposition_n to_o any_o ground_n of_o religion_n and_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n such_o man_n he_o say_v live_v papist_n and_o die_a protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o faith_n may_v find_v mercy_n because_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o but_o such_o papist_n he_o say_v as_o live_v in_o state_n and_o kingdom_n where_o they_o may_v come_v to_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o these_o man_n die_v in_o their_o sin_n though_o yet_o again_o he_o a_o little_a temper_n the_o rigour_n of_o this_o doom_n in_o say_v he_o will_v not_o judge_v their_o person_n though_o he_o pronounce_v their_o doctrine_n so_o damnable_a as_o that_o if_o he_o have_v 10000_o soul_n he_o will_v not_o venture_v one_o of_o they_o in_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o church_n for_o which_o he_o take_v god_n and_o his_o holy_a angel_n to_o witness_v and_o then_o conclude_v very_o pathetical_o thus_o farr_n be_v it_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o they_o and_o we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n as_o that_o a_o man_n may_v resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o without_o peril_n of_o his_o salvation_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o the_o fresh_a bleed_a wound_n and_o suffering_n of_o holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n in_o his_o church_n do_v sufficient_o witness_v the_o great_a danger_n in_o our_o religion_n and_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o now_o roman_a faith_n he_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o whitaker_n who_o will_v have_v we_o take_v it_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o in_o heaven_n there_o be_v not_o one_o jesuit_n nor_o one_o papist_n to_o be_v find_v this_o be_v the_o knight_n whole_a discourse_n in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o his_o section_n 5._o whereby_o upon_o examination_n it_o will_v appear_v he_o be_v as_o well_o red_a in_o his_o own_o author_n as_o in_o our_o schoolman_n and_o father_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o be_v sorry_a the_o protestant_n charitable_a opinion_n shall_v give_v any_o man_n encouradgment_n to_o die_v a_o papist_n but_o by_o his_o leave_n this_o opinion_n do_v not_o proceed_v from_o charity_n but_o from_o evidence_n of_o truth_n as_o all_o testimony_n from_o a_o enemy_n do_v but_o whether_o it_o be_v charity_n or_o not_o this_o knight_n will_v none_o of_o this_o charity_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o some_o ignorant_a people_n who_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v they_o but_o yet_o even_o these_o man_n though_o they_o live_v papist_n they_o must_v die_v protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o that_o faith_n this_o be_v good_a stuff_n papist_n may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n but_o yet_o they_o must_v die_v protestant_n very_o right_a sir_n humphrey_n where_o have_v you_o learn_v this_o theology_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o one_o religion_n yet_o so_o as_o he_o must_v die_v in_o another_o this_o be_v a_o new_a conceit_n never_o hear_v of_o before_o that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o a_o religion_n but_o so_o as_o not_o to_o die_v of_o it_o and_o here_o a_o man_n may_v ask_v at_o great_a many_o pretty_a question_n as_o what_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v that_o they_o must_v die_v in_o what_o article_n of_o apostolic_a and_o christian_a belief_n what_o ground_n these_o be_v that_o may_v not_o be_v oppose_v all_o these_o have_v be_v necessary_a thing_n to_o be_v express_v in_o such_o a_o singular_a treatise_n as_o this_o of_o you_o which_o must_v forsooth_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o a_o safe_a way_n lead_v man_n to_o true_a faith_n and_o why_o also_o a_o man_n that_o hold_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o other_o thing_n common_a to_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n not_o forsake_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o indeed_o not_o know_v any_o thing_n else_o for_o here_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o catholic_a in_o a_o catholic_a country_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v suppose_v the_o name_n of_o a_o protestant_n or_o other_o heretic_n be_v unknown_a why_o i_o say_v such_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v say_v to_o die_v a_o protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o his_o faith_n i_o see_v not_o for_o why_o do_v the_o apostle_n creed_n belong_v more_o to_o you_o then_o to_o we_o have_v we_o it_o from_o you_o or_o you_o from_o we_o nay_o if_o i_o will_v stand_v upon_o it_o i_o can_v show_v you_o not_o to_o believe_v a_o right_n in_o any_o one_o article_n thereof_o whereof_o he_o that_o list_v to_o know_v more_o
they_o and_o their_o doctrine_n 11._o but_o because_o it_o be_v ordinary_a with_o these_o man_n to_o charge_v we_o with_o this_o same_o secret_a apostasy_n and_o defection_n though_o they_o can_v tell_v when_o nor_o how_o it_o have_v come_v i_o shall_v here_o put_v this_o knight_n in_o mind_n of_o two_o convince_a argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a bring_v by_o the_o catholic_a divine_a that_o answer_v that_o part_n of_o my_o lo_o etc._n answ_n to_o cook_n report_n ep_v dedicat_fw-la n._n 22._o etc._n etc._n cooke_n report_n before_o cite_v by_o this_o knight_n to_o convince_v the_o folly_n and_o vanity_n of_o a_o certain_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n that_o be_v dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o other_o metal_n brass_n tin_n &c_n &c_n bring_v by_o sir_n edward_n to_o prove_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o error_n and_o innovation_n just_a as_o this_o knight_n talk_v one_o of_o the_o argument_n be_v theological_a the_o other_o moral_a the_o first_o that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o true_a mother_n church_n which_o both_o my_o lord_n cook_n our_o knight_n and_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o confess_v than_o be_v all_o the_o prediction_n &_o promise_n of_o the_o prophet_n for_o the_o greatness_n eminency_n honour_n certainty_n and_o flourish_a perpetuity_n of_o the_o say_a church_n fulfil_v in_o she_o and_o christ_n peculiar_a promise_n in_o like_a manner_n that_o he_o will_v be_v to_o the_o world_n end_n with_o she_o that_o hell_n gate_n shall_v never_o prevail_v against_o she_o etc._n etc._n be_v also_o perform_v in_o she_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o year_n as_o they_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v continue_v in_o her_o purity_n whereof_o ensue_v that_o either_o god_n be_v not_o able_a to_o perform_v his_o promise_n or_o else_o it_o can_v be_v conceive_v without_o impiety_n that_o this_o flourish_a kingdom_n and_o queen_n of_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v so_o dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o brass_n tin_n copper_n shall_v be_v so_o corrupt_v with_o error_n and_o innovation_n as_o to_o fall_v away_o by_o apostasy_n this_o be_v the_o theological_a argument_n which_o may_v be_v read_v there_o more_o at_o large_a 12._o the_o moral_n be_v that_o christ_n have_v purchase_v his_o church_n at_o so_o dear_a a_o rate_n as_o be_v the_o shed_n of_o his_o blood_n and_o have_v set_v over_o it_o so_o many_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n to_o keep_v continual_a watch_n how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o it_o shall_v fall_v away_o and_o decay_v without_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o watchman_fw-fr once_o open_v his_o mouth_n to_o resist_v or_o testify_v this_o change_n to_o any_o wise_a man_n this_o may_v true_o seem_v as_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n whole_o impossible_a of_o this_o also_o he_o may_v see_v a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n in_o the_o same_o place_n 13._o but_o not_o to_o detain_v myself_o long_a in_o it_o i_o will_v here_o only_o represent_v a_o consideration_n of_o tertullian_n suppose_v that_o this_o so_o impossible_a a_o thing_n shall_v happen_v go_v too_o say_v he_o be_v it_o so_o let_v all_o have_v err_v 28._o praescr_n cap._n 28._o let_v the_o apostle_n be_v deceive_v in_o his_o testimony_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o faith_n of_o some_o church_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v not_o regard_v any_o church_n so_o as_o to_o lead_v it_o into_o truth_n though_o send_v by_o christ_n for_o this_o end_n and_o desire_v of_o the_o father_n to_o be_v the_o teacher_n of_o truth_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o steward_n of_o god_n the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n have_v neglect_v his_o charge_n suffer_v the_o church_n to_o understand_v otherwise_o to_o believe_v otherwise_o then_o he_o that_o be_v christ_n preach_v by_o his_o apostle_n what_o be_v it_o likely_a that_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a shall_v err_v all_o in_o one_o belief_n among_o many_o several_a event_n there_o be_v not_o one_o issue_n mark_v here_o one_o steward_n of_o god_n household_n one_o vicar_n of_o christ_n to_o who_o office_n it_o belong_v to_o see_v that_o particular_a church_n do_v not_o teach_v nor_o believe_v otherwise_o then_o they_o be_v teach_v by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o apostle_n the_o error_n of_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n must_v have_v be_v several_a but_o that_o which_o be_v find_v one_o and_o the_o same_o among_o or_o with_o many_o be_v not_o error_n but_o a_o thing_n deliver_v therefore_o may_v any_o man_n dare_v to_o say_v that_o they_o who_o deliver_v it_o do_v err_v hitherto_o be_v tertullian_n very_a word_n in_o which_o beside_o that_o every_o sentence_n be_v a_o weighty_a argument_n of_o moral_a impossibility_n of_o the_o church_n err_v which_o yet_o for_o disputation_n sake_n he_o let_v pass_v for_o possible_a he_o have_v that_o strong_a conclude_a impossibility_n that_o so_o many_o several_a church_n in_o every_o country_n so_o many_o several_a man_n shall_v all_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o error_n out_o of_o which_o unity_n he_o gather_v it_o to_o be_v a_o truth_n no_o error_n therefore_o let_v this_o knight_n and_o all_o his_o babble_a minister_n if_o they_o do_v not_o mean_v to_o be_v count_v whole_o out_o of_o their_o wit_n for_o evermore_o hold_v their_o peace_n without_o accuse_v the_o catholic_a church_n which_o contain_v in_o itself_o so_o many_o church_n so_o many_o kingdom_n 7._o chap._n 7._o so_o many_o million_o of_o people_n all_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o faith_n of_o error_n and_o apostasy_n of_o the_o 7._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v thus_o the_o pedigree_n of_o the_o romish_a faith_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o ancient_a haeretique_n and_o the_o protestant_a faith_n derive_v from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n chapter_n vii_o 1._o in_o this_o section_n sir_n humphrey_n you_o undertake_v a_o great_a task_n which_o if_o you_o perform_v according_a as_o you_o promise_v eris_fw-la mihi_fw-la magnus_fw-la apollo_n if_o you_o do_v not_o than_o a_o man_n may_v say_v to_o you_o with_o out_o offence_n magnus_fw-la es_fw-la ardelis_fw-la you_o undertake_v to_o derive_v we_o by_o succession_n in_o person_n and_o doctrine_n from_o ancient_a heretic_n and_o yourself_o from_o the_o apostle_n which_o how_o true_o you_o have_v perform_v i_o be_o in_o this_o chapter_n to_o examine_v you_o begin_v with_o latin_a service_n and_o prayer_n in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o one_o wolphius_n a_o lutheran_n heretic_n come_v into_o the_o church_n by_o pope_n vitalian_n about_o the_o year_n 666._o whereof_o you_o make_v a_o mystery_n note_v thus_o in_o the_o margin_n numerus_fw-la bestiae_fw-la apoc._n 13._o the_o number_n of_o the_o beast_n from_o he_o you_o skip_v to_o the_o heretic_n osseni_fw-la who_o teach_v as_o you_o say_v out_o of_o epiphanius_n that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n to_o make_v a_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n from_o they_o you_o go_v yet_o high_o to_o the_o apostle_n time_n wherein_o you_o say_v out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n that_o there_o be_v certain_a jew_n among_o the_o grecian_n as_o namely_o the_o corinthian_n who_o do_v celebrate_v the_o divine_a service_n and_o the_o sacrament_n sometime_o in_o the_o syriake_n and_o most_o common_o in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n which_o the_o common_a people_n understand_v not_o and_o you_o say_v that_o against_o that_o the_o apostle_n s_o paul_n write_v that_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o the_o corinthian_n from_o who_o therefore_o you_o say_v your_o protestant_a doctrine_n be_v derive_v as_o we_o be_v from_o haeretique_n 2._o for_o answer_n of_o this_o and_o what_o else_o you_o be_v to_o say_v of_o your_o succession_n it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o prove_v a_o thing_n to_o have_v be_v ancient_o teach_v another_o to_o have_v be_v successive_o teach_v for_o this_o late_a beside_o antiquity_n which_o it_o include_v it_o import_v continuance_n and_o perpetuity_n without_o interruption_n so_o that_o though_o it_o shall_v be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o wolphius_n epiphanius_n and_o s._n ambrose_n yet_o be_v not_o that_o enough_o for_o there_o be_v some_o hundred_o of_o year_n between_o pope_n vitalian_n and_o the_o osseni_n and_o more_o from_o s._n paul_n time_n to_o this_o of_o we_o from_o which_o notwitstanding_n you_o draw_v your_o doctrine_n without_o any_o body_n between_o now_o for_o the_o space_n of_o 1500._o year_n beside_o when_o we_o speak_v of_o succession_n in_o person_n in_o these_o matter_n it_o be_v understand_v principal_o of_o person_n in_o authority_n one_o succeed_v the_o other_o in_o place_n and_o office_n for_o we_o see_v in_o kingdom_n and_o commonwealthe_n the_o succession_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v most_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o governor_n and_o ruler_n and_o in_o the_o church_n the_o reason_n be_v more_o special_a because_o the_o ruler_n thereof_o be_v doctor_n
all_o the_o world_n believe_v beside_o himself_o out_o of_o which_o you_o will_v have_v your_o reader_n gather_v that_o in_o that_o father_n judgement_n miracle_n have_v cease_v and_o that_o whatsoever_o catholic_n speak_v now_o of_o miracle_n it_o but_o feign_a be_v not_o this_o your_o meaning_n sir_n humphrey_n sure_o it_o be_v for_o what_o else_o it_o shall_v be_v i_o can_v imagine_v now_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o saint_n augustine_n meaning_n as_o shall_v appear_v for_o he_o in_o this_o place_n reason_v with_o the_o pagan_a who_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o miracle_n wrought_v by_o the_o first_o preacher_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o see_v not_o the_o like_a in_o his_o time_n to_o which_o saint_n augustine_n answer_v that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o needful_a then_o as_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o yet_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o wrought_v then_o for_o how_o else_o say_v he_o come_v the_o world_n to_o believe_v and_o now_o the_o world_n believe_v there_o need_v no_o miracle_n to_o make_v a_o man_n believe_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o world_n be_v argument_n enough_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o will_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n for_o his_o belief_n and_o this_o be_v for_o us._n for_o so_o say_v we_o a_o man_n that_o shall_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n to_o become_v a_o catholic_a the_o whole_a world_n of_o this_o age_n and_o for_o so_o many_o forego_v age_n believe_v and_o profess_v that_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o himself_o and_o we_o say_v again_o that_o he_o be_v as_o much_o to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o shall_v believe_v a_o new_a haereticall_a religion_n not_o know_v before_o to_o the_o world_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a belief_n thereof_o such_o as_o luther_n or_o caluin_n be_v without_o miracle_n for_o all_o true_a religion_n must_v have_v some_o testimony_n of_o miracle_n from_o god_n in_o the_o beginning_n till_o man_n believe_v but_o man_n believe_v they_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a so_o as_o thus_o much_o as_o you_o have_v set_v down_o of_o saint_n augustine_n his_o discourse_n be_v not_o against_o we_o but_o rather_o against_o yourself_o but_o now_o see_v you_o will_v needs_o speak_v against_o miracle_n and_o that_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n let_v we_o see_v what_o else_o there_o be_v in_o this_o place_n against_o or_o for_o miracle_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a title_n of_o that_o chapter_n out_o of_o the_o very_a beginning_n whereof_o you_o take_v your_o place_n it_o be_v this_o 8._o aug._n the_o civet_n lib._n 22._o cap._n 8._o de_fw-fr miraculis_fw-la quae_fw-la ut_fw-la mundus_fw-la in_o christum_fw-la crederet_fw-la facta_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o fieri_fw-la mundo_fw-la credente_fw-la non_fw-la desinunt_fw-la of_o the_o miracle_n which_o be_v wrought_v that_o the_o world_n may_v believe_v in_o christ_n and_o do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v wrought_v now_o that_o the_o world_n do_v believe_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o here_o comfort_n for_o you_o to_o begin_v withal_o miracle_n wrought_v not_o only_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o afterward_o in_o s._n aug._n his_o time_n well_o in_o the_o chapter_n itself_o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o he_o that_o will_v not_o believe_v without_o miracle_n will_v be_v a_o wonder_n himself_o he_o expound_v his_o meaning_n not_o to_o be_v so_o as_o if_o miracle_n be_v cease_v as_o our_o haeretique_n and_o you_o for_o one_o sir_n humphrey_n say_v no_o say_v he_o etiam_fw-la nunc_fw-la fiunt_fw-la miracula_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la nomine_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o even_o now_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v in_o his_o name_n either_o by_o the_o sacrament_n or_o by_o prayer_n or_o memory_n of_o martyr_n and_o then_o he_o spend_v that_o whole_a and_o long_a chapter_n in_o recount_v of_o such_o miracle_n as_o happen_v then_o in_o his_o time_n and_o even_o in_o his_o own_o sight_n or_o hard_a by_o and_o so_o also_o in_o another_o place_n whereas_o he_o have_v make_v himself_o a_o objection_n why_o such_o miracle_n as_o our_o saviour_n wrought_v be_v not_o then_o wrought_v and_o answer_v because_o they_o will_v not_o move_v unless_o they_o be_v strange_a 14._o retract_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 14._o nor_o will_v be_v strange_a if_o they_o be_v ordinary_a he_o expound_v himself_o thus_o haec_fw-la dixi_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la tanta_fw-la nec_fw-la omne_fw-la modo_fw-la non_fw-la quia_fw-la nulla_fw-la fiunt_fw-la etiam_fw-la modo_fw-la this_o i_o say_v because_o not_o so_o great_a nor_o all_o now_o not_o because_o none_o be_v wrought_v even_o now_o by_o which_o it_o be_v most_o clear_a that_o you_o have_v not_o s._n aug._n with_o you_o against_o miracle_n but_o as_o plain_a as_o may_v be_v against_o you_o so_o as_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o you_o can_v say_v for_o yourself_o but_o by_o lay_v the_o blame_n upon_o the_o spirit_n i_o speak_v of_o before_o who_o ought_v you_o a_o shame_n and_o therefore_o put_v you_o upon_o write_v such_o matter_n as_o can_v be_v otherwise_o maintain_v then_o by_o such_o mean_n as_o you_o be_v here_o fain_o to_o use_v of_o the_o 16._o sect._n entitle_v our_o adversary_n objection_n draw_v from_o the_o testimony_n of_o pretend_a martyr_n of_o their_o religion_n answer_v chapter_n xvi_o 1._o the_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n in_o his_o ten_o reason_n bring_v all_o sort_n of_o witness_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n begin_v with_o martyr_n those_o particular_o who_o be_v pastor_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n suffer_v martyrdom_n successive_o one_o after_o the_o other_o to_o the_o number_n of_o 33._o these_o say_v campian_n be_v we_o and_o name_v some_o of_o they_o as_o telesphorus_n victor_n sixtus_n cornelius_n with_o the_o particular_a point_n which_o they_o hold_v conformable_o with_o we_o against_o protestant_n 16._o chap._n 16._o as_o the_o fast_o of_o lent_n the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o like_o this_o our_o knight_n take_v hold_v of_o confess_v martyrdom_n to_o carry_v some_o show_n of_o honour_n in_o our_o church_n but_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v we_o because_o they_o neither_o suffer_v for_o our_o faith_n nor_o profess_v it_o while_o they_o live_v which_o he_o prove_v by_o ask_v whether_o ever_o any_o martyr_n die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n and_o whether_o any_o romanist_n dare_v die_v in_o justification_n of_o his_o own_o righteousness_n and_o whether_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o die_v and_o be_v canonize_v for_o adoration_n give_v to_o image_n and_o many_o more_o such_o wise_a demand_n to_o who_o i_o answer_v that_o those_o martyr_n suffer_v death_n not_o for_o the_o point_n now_o in_o controversy_n with_o haeretique_n but_o for_o the_o profession_n of_o christianity_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o enemy_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o not_o only_o such_o as_o die_v for_o christ_n himself_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o pagan_n be_v martyr_n but_o such_o as_o die_v for_o his_o church_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o haeretique_n or_o for_o any_o one_o particular_a point_n even_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o that_o be_v define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o which_o every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o deny_v any_o of_o they_o now_o that_o these_o martyr_n be_v we_o notwithstanding_o they_o die_v not_o for_o any_o of_o these_o point_n it_o be_v plain_a because_o they_o profess_v the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n which_o we_o do_v which_o we_o also_o prove_v by_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o successor_n vrbanus_n 8._o who_o as_o he_o hold_v their_o seat_n so_o also_o their_o faith_n council_n 〈◊〉_d 1._o council_n for_o peter_n chair_n and_o faith_n go_v together_o as_o the_o very_a haeretique_n pelagius_n confess_v to_o lozimus_n pope_n say_v to_o he_o qui_fw-fr petri_n fidem_fw-la &_o sedem_fw-la tenes_fw-fr not_o to_o stand_v here_o upon_o the_o most_o effectual_a and_o infallible_a prayer_n of_o our_o saviour_n himself_n oravi_fw-la pro_fw-la te_fw-la petre_n ut_fw-la non_fw-la deficiat_fw-la fides_fw-la tua_fw-la which_o proof_n must_v stand_v firm_a till_o sir_n humphrey_n can_v tell_v we_o what_o pope_n begin_v to_o vary_v from_o his_o praedecessor_n 2._o now_o for_o the_o particular_a point_n it_o be_v plain_a even_o by_o those_o which_o f._n campian_n cit_v that_o they_o be_v we_o but_o much_o more_o by_o their_o own_o decretal_a epistle_n which_o be_v all_o so_o full_a of_o those_o thing_n that_o the_o haeretique_n have_v no_o other_o shift_n but_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o same_o epistle_n therefore_o they_o be_v idle_a demand_n which_o the_o knight_n make_v whether_o any_o have_v die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n or_o whether_o any_o catholic_a dare_v die_v for_o justification_n of_o his_o righteousness_n for_o these_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o of_o presumption_n but_o for_o
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o