pollution of originall sin and if perhaps any did sometimes vse any forme or rite it was rather a matter of priuate voluntary deuotion than of necessitie For whereas parents stand bound by the generall law of God and nature with all thankefull acknowledgment to receiue their children as a great and speciall benefit from God this their faith pietie and thankefullnesse joyned with desire of and prayer for their Good prosperous and happy estate was accepted and found fauour with God on the behalfe of their children Whereupon Gregory pronounceth that the faith of the parents was of the same force with them of the old time that the Baptisme of water is with vs. And whereas Augustine sayth it is not likely that the people of God before the institution of Circumcision had noe Sacrament wherewith to present their children to GOD though the Scripture haue not expressed it it is not to bee vnderstood sayth Andradius of any outward ceremonies necessary for the sanctification of those Infants but of any rite offering them to GOD whether mentall onely or outwardly object to the eye and sense That which Andradius addeth that it could not be knowne but by tradition onely that the faith of the parents was in stead of circumcision before circumcision was instituted and after the institution of it to them that might not lawfully or could not possibly be circumcised is frivolous for men knew it concluded it out of the generall and common rules of reason and equity Touching the state of the people of God since the comming of Christ our adversaries make no doubt but they can easily proue that the writings which the Church that now is hath are defectiue and imperfect This they endeauour to proue First because the Scriptures of the New Testament were written vpon particular occasions offered and not of purpose to containe a perfect rule of faith Secondly because they were written by the Apostles and other Apostolique men out of their owne motions and not by commandement from Christ the Sonne of GOD. But vnto both these Arguments alleadged by our Adversaries we answere that they containe matter of very grosse errour For first who seeth not plainly that the Evangelistes writing the historie of Christs life and death Saint Luke in the booke of the Acts of the Apostles describing the comming of the Holy Ghost the admirable gifts of grace powred vpon the Apostles and the Churches established and ordered by them and the blessed Apostle Saint Iohn writing the Revelations which hee saw concerning the future state of things to the end of the world meant to deliuer a perfect summe of Christian doctrine and direction of Christian faith It is true indeed that the Epistles of the Apostles directed to the Christian Churches that then were were occasionally written yet so as by the providence of God all such things as the Church beleeueth not being found in the other parts of Scripture purposely writtē are most clearely at large deliuered in these Epistles Secondly touching the other part of their Argument which they bring to convince the Scripture of imperfection because they that wrote it had no commaundement to write wee thinke it needeth no refutation for the absurditie of it is evident and cleare of it selfe For who knoweth not that the Scriptures are not of any priuate motion but that the holy men of God were moued impelled and carried by the spirit of truth to the performance of this worke doing nothing without the instinct of the Spirit which was vnto them a Commandement The imperfection defect supposed to be foundin the Scripture our adversaries endeavour to supply by addition of traditions The name of Tradition sometimes signifieth euery Christian doctrine deliuered frō one to another either by liuely voyce only or by writing as Exod. 17. Scribe hoc ob monumentum in libro trade in auribus Iosuae Write this for a remembrance in a Booke and deliuer it in the eares of Iosuah Act. 6. 14. The written Law of Moses is called a Tradition Audivimus eum dicentem quoniam Iesus destruet locum istum mutabit traditiones quas tradidit nobis Moses We heard him say that Iesus shall destroy this place and change the traditions which Moses deliuered vnto vs. Sometimes the name of tradition signifieth that which is deliuered by liuely voyce onely and not written That which I receiued of the Lord saith the Apostle that I deliuered vnto you In this question by tradition we vnderstand such parts of Christian doctrine or discipline as were not written by them by whom they were first deliuered For thus our Adversaries vnderstand Traditions which they diuide into divers kindes First in respect of the Authors so making them of three sorts Divine Apostolicall Ecclesiasticall Secondly in respect of the matter they concerne in which respect they make them to be of tvvo sorts for either they cōcerne matters of faith or matters of manners and these latter againe either temporall or perpetuall vniuersall or particular All these in their seuerall kindes they make equall with the wordes precepts and doctrines of Christ the Apostles Pastors of the Church left vnto vs in writing Neither is there any reason why they should not so doe if they could proue any such vnwritten verities For it is not the writing that giueth things their authoritie but the worth credite of him that deliuereth them though but by word and liuely voyce onely The only doubt is whether there be any such vnwritten traditions or not Much contention there hath beene about Traditions some vrging the necessity of them and other rejecting them For the clearing whereof we must obserue that though we reiect the vncertaine and vaine traditions of the Papists yet wee reiect not all For first wee receiue the number and names of the authors of bookes Diuine Canonicall as deliuered by tradition This tradition we admitte for that though the bookes of Scripture haue not their authority from the Approbation of the Church but winne credite of themselues and yeeld sufficient satisfaction to all men of their Diuine truth whence wee judge the Church that receiueth them to bee led by the spirit of God yet the number Authors and integrity of the parts of these bookes wee receiue as deliuered by tradition The second kinde of tradition which wee admitte is that summarie comprehension of the cheefe heads of Christian doctrine contayned in the Creed of the Apostles which was deliuered to the Church as a rule of her faith For though euery part thereof be contayned in the Scripture yet the orderly connexion distinct explication of these principall articles gathered into an Epitome wherein are implyed and whence are inferred all conclusions theologicall is rightly named a tradition The 3d is that forme of Christian doctrine and explication of the seuerall parts thereof which the first Christians receiuing of the same Apostles that deliuered to them the Scriptures commended
wee are of wee will most willingly listen vnto them But this they doe not and therefore their talking of the Fathers reasoning from succession when they dare not reason as the fathers did is most vaine and idle CHAP. 41. Of Vnity the kindes of it and that Communion with the Romane Bishoppe is not alwayes a note of true and Catholike profession THe next note of the Church assigned by them is Vnity The Vnity of the Church consisteth principally in three things First in obseruing and holding the Rule of faith once deliuered to the Saints Secondly in the subiection of the people to their Pastours and thirdly in the due connexion of many Pastours and the flockes depending on them among themselues All these kinds and sorts of vnity wee thinke necessarily required in some degree in all those societies of Christians that will demonstrate themselues to bee the true Churches of God and deny not but that vnity in this sort expressed and conceiued is a most apt note of the true Church The papists suppose that besides these kinds and sorts of vnity before expressed there is also required another kind of vnity to the being of the Church namely subiection to and vnion with that visible head which as they thinke Christ hath left in his steade to gouerne the whole body of the Church and to rule both Pastors and people This head as they suppose is the Bishoppe of Rome from whose communion sith wee are fallen they inferre that wee are diuided from the vnity of the true Church This last kinde of vnity deuised by the Papists wee deny to bee necessarily required to the beeing of the true Church First therefore let vs see what may bee said for or against the necessity of this kinde of vnitie and in the next place consider what our aduersaries can conclude for themselues or against vs from that kind of vnity which wee acknowledge to be necessarily required to the being of the true Church If the vnion of all Christians with this supposed visible head which is the Bishop of Rome were necessarily required as a perpetuall dutie then was there no true Church in the time of the Anti-Popes when the wisest knew not who were the true Popes and who were vsurpers If they shall reply that it is necessary to hold Communion with the true if hee may bee knowne this hath no more warrant of reason than the former seeing the best learned amongst thēselues thinke that not only the Pope but also the whole cleargy people of Rome may erre and fall into damnable heresies in which case it is the part of euery true Christian to disclaime all communion with them and to oppose himselfe against them and all their hereticall impieties That it is possible for the Pope to erre and become an heretique so many great Divines in the Church of Rome haue at all times most constantly defended that the greatest patrons of the infallibility of the Popes judgement at this day are forced to confesse it is not necessary to beleeue that the Pope cannot erre but that it is onely a matter of probable dispute Thus then it is evident to all that will not wilfully oppose themselues against the truth that consent with the Romane Bishoppe cannot bee made a perpetuall and sure note of the true Church Nay the Grecians most constantly affirme that the Popes taking all to himselfe and challenging to bee head of the vniversall Church hath beene the cause of the Churches division But because Bellarmine is so excellent a Sophister that he is able to proue any thing to bee true though neuer so false and absurde Let vs see how hee proueth that consent with the Bishop of Rome is a note of the true Church in such sorte that whosoeuer holdeth Communion with him is a Catholike and contrarily whosoeuer forsaketh his Communion is an Heretique or Schismatique This hee endeavoureth to make good by the testimonies of sundry of the auncient Fathers wrested against their knowne meanings and vndoubted resolutions in other parts of their workes and writings His first allegation is out of Irenaeus in his third booke and third Chapter against heresies But if wee consider the circumstances of the place and the occasion of the wordes ci◅d by Bellarmine wee shall easily see they proue no such thing as hee laboureth to enforce For Irenaeus in that place sheweth how all heresies may bee refuted by opposing against them the tradition of the Apostles which hee saith wee may easily finde out and discerne how contrary it is to the franticke conceites of heretiques by taking a view of them which were ordained Bishoppes by the Apostles in the Churches of Christ and their successours to this present time which neuer taught nor knew any such thing as these men dreame Now because it would bee tedious to reckon all the successions of Bishoppes succeeding one another in euery Church therefore he produceth the succession of the Bishops in the Romane Church in steede of all because that being the most famous and renowned Church of the world constituted and founded by the two most principall and glorious Apostles Peter and Paul whatsoeuer was successiuely taught and receiued in that Church and consequently deliuered vnto it by those blessed Apostles must needes be the doctrine and tradition of the rest of the Apostles deliuered to all other Churches of the World For what was there hidden from these Apostles that was revealed vnto any of the rest and what would they hide from this principall Church that was any way necessary to bee knowne Therefore saith Irenaeus the producing of the Romane succession is in stead of all For it must needes bee that what this most principall Church receiued from these great Apostles that nothing else the other did receiue from their Apostles first preachers which he expresseth in these words Ad hanc Ecclesiam propter potentiorē principalitatē necesse est omnem convenire Ecclesiā hoc est cos qui sunt vndique fideles Bellarmines sense of these words that all Churches must frame themselues to beleeue what the Church of Rome beleeueth and prescribeth to others to bee beleeued no way standeth with the drift of Irenaeus in this place as may appeare by that which hath beene sayd and therefore this allegation might haue beene spared His next authorities are out of Cyprians Epistles in the first of which Epistles we shall finde that there were certaine Schismatikes that fled from their owne lawfull Bishop and superiours with complaints to other Bishops and Churches and amongst the rest to the Church and Bishop of Rome not knowing sayth Cyprian or at least not considering that the Romanes are such as will not giue entertainement to such perfidious companions nor listen to lying and false reports For that is the meaning of those words Ad quos perfidia non possit habere accessum But Bellarmine wresteth the words to another sense to wit that infidelitie and
earnestly to thirst after these waters when hee sayth Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousnes but the vngodly having tasted of the wine of mundane joy and temporall riches hate dislike and put from them this water and therefore the Lord sayth well of them by the Prophet Esay 8. Because this people haue refused the waters of Siloe that runne softly and without noyse and haue taken rather Rasin and the sonne of Romelia I will bring upon them the mighty waters of of the floud Siloe is interpreted sent and it signifieth the doctrine of the diuine Law sent vnto vs by Christ the Apostles and other faithfull ones which doctrine the Pastors of the Church are bound vnder the paine of damnation to know and teach whereupon Isidore saith de summo bono lib. 3. c. 46. The Priests shall bee damned for the iniquity of the people if either they neglect to teach them being ignorant or to reproue them when they offend the Lord hauing said by the Prophet I haue set thee as a watch-man ouer the house of Israel and if thou shalt not tell the wicked of his wickednes that hee forsake his euill way he shall dye in his iniquitie but I will require his bloud at thy hand Notwithstanding all this many of the moderne Priests cast from them this learning and say we will none of it because it is not de pane lucrando that is it serueth not to bring in gaine and profite and giue themselues to the study of humane lawes which are not so necessary for the sauing of soules as the law of God because as Odo saith here vpon the Gospell sermone 39. If Christ had knowne that we might more easily attaine saluation by the Lawes of Iustinian he would surely haue taught them vs with his own mouth and haue let that alone which he taught vs and deliuered vnto vs et in quâ continetur implicitè vel explicitè omnis scientia ad salutem necessario requisita and in which is contained expressely or implicitely all knowledge necessarily required to saluation according to that of S. Augustine 2. de doctrinâ Christianâ in fine Whatsoeuer a man learneth without and beside the holy Scripture if it be hurtfull it is there condemned if it bee profitable it may there be found But many Church-men leaue this learning and take vnto them Rasin and the sonne of Romelia Rasin signifieth a picture and Romelia high and mighty thunder so that by Rasin and the sonne of Romelia wee may vnderstand painted and glorious wordes and that wordy thunder of humane lawes which kindes of learning many Ecclesiastical persons assume that they may be by such profession exalted in the courts of great Lords and for this cause as the Prophet addeth the Lord shall bring vpon them the mighty and great waters of the floud that is infernall punishments so saith Odo Hitherto hee hath alleadged the words of Grosthead and Odo In another place he saith concerning them that so contemne the word of God that the Lord complaineth of such by the Prophet Ierem. 2. saying My people hath done two euils they haue forsaken me the fountaine of liuing water and haue digged to themselues broken cisterns to which as Gulielmus Parisiensis saith the decree or canon law may fitly be compared which is a broken cisterne that cannot hold water which though it haue water to day shall haue none to morrow because it shall bee abrogated whereas touching the Law of God it is otherwise and therefore the Psalmist saith thy righteousnesse O Lord is an euerlasting righteousnesse and thy law is trueth Yet is the holy Scripture much contemned by the profession of the Canonists so that the knowledge of holy Scripture and profession of Divinity may say to an ill Advocate or Lawyer as Sara said to Abraham in the 16 of Genesis Thou dealest ill with me I gaue thee my handmaid into thy bosome who seeing that she had conceiued despised me for as Gulielmus Parisiensis saith de vitiis part 4. cap. 6. The profession of Canonists contemneth the profession of Divines and science of holy Scripture because they are not so gainefull as it is When Ismael and Isaack played together Ismael mocked Isaack so that Sarâ—… was forced to intreate Abraham to cast out the bondwoman and her sonne So happily it were behoofefull and profitable for the Church that this Science in a great part should be cast out because it not only contemneth the diuine Science and Law of God but blasphemeth it and in so doing contemneth and blaspheameth God himselfe who is the lawgiuer Here wee haue the opinion of three worthy men touching the sufficiencie of the Scripture and the dangers confusions and horrible euils that followed vppon the multiplying of humane inuentions Many more might be alleadged to the same purpose but these may suffice to let us know what the doctrine of the Church was in the dayes of our Fathers for they deliuer not their priuate conceipts but tel vs what all good and iudicious men conceiued of these things in their times But some men will say wee find often mention of traditions in the writers of former ages soe that it seemeth they did not thinke the Scriptures to containe all things necessary to saluation For the clearing of this doubt wee must obserue that by the name of tradition sometimes all the doctrine of Christ and his blessed Apostles is meant that was first deliuered by liuely voice and afterwards written Sometimes the deliuering of the diuine and canonicall bookes from hand to hand as receiued from the Apostles is named a tradition Sometimes the summe of Christian religion contained in the Apostles creed which the Church receiueth as a rule of her faith is named a tradition but euery one of those articles is found in the Scripture as Waldensis rightly noteth though not together nor in the same forme so that this colection may rightly be named a tradition as hauing beene deliuered from hand to hand in this forme for the direction of the Churches children and yet the Scriptures be sufficient Sometimes by the name of traditions the Fathers vnderstand certaine rites and auncient obseruations And that the Apostles delivered some things in this kind by word and liuely voyce that they wrote not wee easily grant but which they were it can hardly now be knowne as Waldensis rightly noteth But this proueth not the insufficiencie of the Scripture for none of those Fathers speake of points of doctrine that are to be belieued without and besides the Scripture or that cannot be proued from thence though sometimes in a generall sort they name all those points of religion traditions that are not found expressely and in precise tearmes in Scripture and yet may necessarily be deduced from things there expressed Lastly by the name of tradition is vnderstood the sense and meaning of the Scripture receiued from the Apostles and deliuered from hand to hand together with the bookes There are
erre yet haue men other meanes to finde out the truth as namely the Scriptures and resolutions of former times which whosoeuer findeth is bound to beleeue though the rest of the Church not finding them may in the mercies of God be saued That which is alleaged out of the Fathers is to no purpose for they speake of the Church as it comprehendeth the faithfull that are and haue been which we confesse cannot erre in matters of faith CHAP. 5. Of the promises made vnto the Church how it is secured from errour and of the different degrees of the obedience we owe vnto it THe right vnderstanding of the promisses made and due consideration of the parties to whom they are made will leade vs to the right vnderstanding of the Churches infallibility and assurance of truth For seeing though they be made to all the faithfull generally and to the particular Churches as well as to the whole yet they are vnderstood to bee performed proportionably according to the measure and degree of each part but to the whole Church wholly and entirely the Church being particular not onely in respect of place but also of time the whole is not necessary to be performed to the Church of one time vnlesse wee speake of the Primitiue wherein the whole was originally but to the Church that comprehendeth the whole number of beleeuers that are and haue beene in which sense that promise is to bee vnderstood that the spirit shall leade the Church into all trueth Hither wee may refer those different degrees of obedience which wee must yeeld to them that commaund and teach vs in the Church of God excellently described and set downe by Waldensis We must sayth he reuerence and respect the authority of all Catholike Doctours whose doctrine and writings the Church alloweth wee must more regard the authority of Catholicke Bishops more then these the authority of the Apostolicke Churches amongst them more specially the Church of Rome of a generall Councell more thē all these yet we must not listen so to the determinations of these nor so certainly assent vnto thē as to the things cōtained in the Scripture or beleeued by the whole vniuersall Church that hath bin euer since the Apostles time but as to the instructiōs of our Elders fatherly admonitiōs We must sayth he obey without scrupulous questioning with all modesty of minde and reuerence of body with all good allowance acceptation and repose in the words of them that teach us vnlesse they teach us any thing which the authority of the higher and superiour controlleth yet so as then the humble and obedient children of the Church must not insolently insult vpon them from whom they are forced to dissent but must dissent with a reuerent childe-like and respectfull shamefastnesse Thus hee prooueth out of Augustine Tom 7. lib. 2. De baptismo contra Donatistas Who knoweth not sayth S. Augustine that the sacred and Canonicall Scriptures of the old and new Testaments are contained within their set certaine boundes and that they are so in such sort set in a higher degree of authority then any of the writings of the succeding Bishops that of them we may not doubt nor make any question whether it be true or right that is there contained but the writings of the Bishops of the Church which either haue beene published since the perfecting of the Canon of Scripture or which shall be hereafter may be censured and reproued by the wiser judgment of any that are skilfull in the same things whereof they write or by the grauer authority of other Bishops and the wisdome of them that are learned themselues and able to teach others and by the determinations of Councels if happily they haue gone aside from the truth And the Councels themselues which are holden in seuerall Countries and Prouinces must giue place to the authority of generall councels gathered assembled out of the whole Christian World of plenary Councels oftentimes the former are to be corrected by the later when by experience more perfect knowledge of things that which was shut is opened and that knowne which was hidden before Euery of these must be content to yeeld one to another without the puffe of sacrilegious pride without swelling arrogancie without euious contending with all holy humility with all Catholike peaceable disposition and Christian charity Thus then we thinke that particular men and Churches may erre damnably because notwithstanding others may worship God aright but that the whole Church at one time cannot so erre for that then the Church should cease vtterly for a time and so not be Catholicke being not at all times and Christ should somtimes be without a Church yet that errours not preiudicing the saluation of them that erre may be found in the Church that is at one time in the world we make no doubt only the whole symbolicall and catholike Church which is and was beeing wholly free from errour Thus touching the possession of the rich treasures of heauenly truth I haue sufficiently cleared our iudgment which is the same that all wise and learned men haue euer beene of to wit that the Church which comprehendeth the whole number of belieuers that are and haue beene since Christ appeared in the flesh so including the Apostles can neither erre in nor be ignorant of any thing that was to be reuealed by Christ the eternall Word and Angell of the great Couenant of God Secondly that the Church that comprehendeth all the faithfull that are and haue beene since the Apostles may be ignorant of some things which in processe of time shall be known but cannot erre in any thing Thirdly that all the Pastours of this Church cannot erre Fourthly that all the Pastors that haue committed the treasure of their wisdome learning to writing cannot erre in any thing wherein they consent in their writings because it is not possible that they should all haue writen of any thing but such as touch the very life of the Christian faith generally receiued in all their times Fiftly that it is not possible that all that doe speake of a thing consenting together should erre if it be a matter of substance and if in euery age some haue written of it though many that haue written be silent and say nothing of it Sixtly that the most famous renowned in all ages consenting in any thing that toucheth the substance of the Christian faith no man dissenting from them without note of nouelty singularity may not without intolerable rashnesse be charged with errour Seuenthly that though the writings of the auncient may be much corrupted so that the cōsent of antiquity cānot alwaies be easily known yet there will be euer some meanes to find it out to discry the errours and frauds of the corruptors so I vnderstād that of Vincentius Lirinensis that the iudgmēt of antiquity is to be sought out at the very first rising of heresies not
the Romanists for confirmation of the vniversality of the Popes iurisdiction and power IT is euident by that which hath beene said that that vniuersality whereof Gregory speaketh in his Epistles and which he so peremptorily condemneth is claimed by the Popes his successours at this day and consequently that they are in his judgment the fore-runners of Antichrist and in pride like Lucifer Yet because there is nothing so absurd that some will not defend nothing so false which some will not endeauour to proue true let vs see what the Romanists can say for proofe and confirmation of the vniuersall Iurisdiction of their Popes Surely as men carefull to vphold the state of the Papacy vnder the shadow of the boughes of which tree they so sweetly rest and repose themselues they haue turned ouer their bookes to see what may bee said and out of them alleage against vs the testimonies of Councels Popes Fathers Greeke and Latine and the practise of Popes whence such a peerelesse power may bee proued and inferred The first testimony that they bring out of any Councell is out of the Epistle written by the Fathers of the second generall Councell to Damasus Bishop of Rome the other Bishops of the west wherein the Fathers say if we beleeue these men that they came together to Constantinople by the mandate of the Pope whose letters the Emperour sent vnto them and confesse that the Romane Church is the head and they the members Truely this is a very ill beginning and may make vs justly feare that we shall find little good dealing in that which followeth For there is no part of this true which in the front of all their proofes is by them so confidently alleaged For thus the matter standeth betweene the Fathers of that Councell and the Bishop of Rome The Bishops assembled at Constantinople writ to the Bishop of Rome and the rest of the Bishops of the West assembled in a Councell at Rome signifying that they had beene invited by them out of their brotherly loue as their owne members to come to their Councell and that they wished nothing more then that they had the wings of doues that they might flye away and rest with them but that the state of their Churches not permitting them to be so long absent and that intending at the time they vnderstood of their letters to come no farther then Constantinople they could not come but had sent notwithstanding certaine vnto them This is all that is contained in the letter of those Fathers written to the Bishop of Rome in all which there is no word of any mandate of the Pope but of a friendly and louing entreatie of the Westerne Bishops desiring the presence of their brethren of the East no word of head and members but of fellow members nor any thing that may proue a commaunding power in the Pope Nay the contrary is most strongly from hence to be proued For it was the Emperour and not the Pope that called them to Constantinople they refused to come to Rome though they had receiued the letters of the Romane Bishop and his colleagues intreating and desiring them to come to Rome they abode at Constantinople and were esteemed to bee the Generall Councell though the Pope held a Councell in the West at the same time which should haue beene accounted generall rather then this if all assurance of finding out the trueth and making good Lawes did rest in the Pope onely And lastly they ordained Bishoppes of the greatest and most famous Churches of the world such and in such sort as the Pope did not greatly like and yet was forced to giue way to their doings and to ratifie that which they had done The 2d allegation to proue the vniversalitie of the Popes jurisdiction is that the Fathers of the 3d general Councell holden at Ephesus professed that they deposed Nestorius by force of the mandatory letters of Caelestinus B. of Rome that in their epistle to Caelestinus they say they reserued the judgement of the cause of Iohn Patriarch of Antioch to him as being more doubtfull The former of these two things they endeauour to proue out of Euagrius the later out of the Epistle written by the Fathers of that Councell extant in the Councell it selfe For the clearing of this objection wee must obserue that Nestorius Patriarch of Constantinople hauing vttered certaine hereticall and impious speeches touching the personall vnion of the natures of God and Man in Christ whereby many were scandalized the first amongst the Patriarches that tooke notice of it was Cyrill Bishop of Alexandria in Aegypt who after he found that Nestorius would not bee reclaimed by admonitions called a Synode of his Bishops and condemned the absurd and hereticall positions of Nestorius and required him to anathematize them otherwise threatning that hee and his Bishops would reiect him from their communion and hold them as brethren who vnder his iurisdiction resisted against him This his proceeding hee signified to the Bishop of Rome who approved and commended the same with his whole Synode of westerne Bishops encouraged him to goe forward wishing him not to doubt of his concurrence with him but as hauing all the authority and power hee and his Bishops had to prouide for the church of Constantinople and to let Nestorius know that he was cut off from the vnity of the body of their Churches if hee should not within a certaine number of dayes anathematize his wicked doctrine and professe the faith touching the generation of Christ the Sonne of God which the Romane Church the Church of Alexandria and Christian religion euery where preacheth Hereupon Nestorius fearing the course that Cyrill would take against him desired the Emperour to summon a generall Councell To this Councell came Nestorius and the Bishops that were vnder him and Cyrill with his Bishops assisted with the concurrence of the resolution and direction of the Bishop of Rome and other Bishoppes of the West though absent But Iohn the Patriarch of Antioche and his Bishops were not come Whereupon after a while the Bishops that were present being wearie of staying there beganne to proceede without him requiring Nestorius to appeare in the Synode and to answere to such things as should bee obiected to him Which when hee refused to doe the Fathers assembled finding by manifest proofe that hee had taught impiously condemned and deposed him compelled so to doe by the Canons and the letters of the Bishop of Rome and his westerne Bishops who had set a time within which if hee submitted not himselfe they would reiect him from their communion Fiue dayes after the condemnation and deposition of Nestorius came Iohn the Patriarch of Antioche with his Bishops excusing himselfe for his long tarrying in respect of the distance of the place from whence he came as also for that his Bishops could not sooner be gathered together Hee was much offended that they who were come before him had
prayers and may be releeued by them that therefore there is a third place wherein they are to be temporally afflicted For all this may be in the passage hence and entrance into the other world the prayers of the liuing accompanying them and God purging out that which is impure and remitting that which offendeth him in this middle sort of men euen in that first entrance into the state of the other world And surely Augustine himselfe in his owne prayer for Monicha his mother neuer speaketh one word of releasing her out of paine or punishment but prayeth God not to enter into iudgment with her to suffer none to diuide her from him and take her out of his protection to keepe her that neither the lyon nor dragon by force or subtilty interpose himselfe for that shee will not plead that shee hath not trespassed lest shee should be conuinced and the accuser should preuaile against her and gette her to himselfe but that her trespasses are remitted to her by Christ so shewing that hee made his prayer for her respectiuely to the state shee was in in her passage and while she stood to be judged and because this might seeme to bee already past and the things hee asked performed when he prayed hee sayth he thinketh God hath already done that he prayeth for but beseecheth him to accept his voluntary deuotions Two places there are found in Augustines workes where he seemeth peremptorily to affirme that there is a penall state and purging fire after this life the first is in his one and twentieth booke De ciuitate Dei where he sayth When the dead shall rise againe there shall some bee found to whom after they haue suffered punishments mercy shall be shewed that they be not cast into eternall fire But the words as Viues noteth vpon the same place are not found in some auncient manuscripts nor in that printed at Friburge The other place is in his second booke De Genesi against the Manichees The words are these Hee who happily shall not till his field but shall suffer it to be ouer-growne with thornes and briars hath in this life the curse of his life in all his workes and after this life hee shall haue either the fire of Purgation or eternall punishment which wordes beeing spoken of them that till not their fielde that suffer it to bee ouer-growne with thornes and bryers whose whole life is accursed in all they doe and not of such good men to whom some imperfection cleaueth are vttered according to that opinion then preuayling of deliuerance out of hell which Augustine in that place would not stand to discusse but else-where refuteth at large So that the thinges t◅ are found in Augustine clearely resolued on are onely these First that some sinnes are remitted after this life which wee graunt vnderstanding that remission to bee in the first enterance into the other world Secondly that they are onely the lesser sinnes that are thus remitted after this life and not those more grieuous wherein men dye without repentance for these exclude from the Kingdome of Heauen Thirdly that prayers do helpe men dying in those lesser sinnes Which likewise we acknowledge to be true if such prayers be conceaued and vnderstood as made respectiuely to the enterance into the other world Fourthly that there is no deliuerance of men dying in the state of mortall sinne out of hell and that noe prayers can benefit them in this behalfe In all these pointes his resolution is full and cleare but whether the paines of men damned in hell may be eased mitigated or suspended for a time by the prayers of the liuing he professeth hee will not striue so that the wrath of God be acknowledged to remaine eternally vppon them Neither is this contradictory to that which he hath else-where that the prayers of the liuing are no helpes of such as are damned but onely comforts of the liuing For hee meaneth that they are no helpes able to free and deliuer them out of that state of punishment wherein they are but whether they may some way ease them or not hee will not much contend and therefore hee sayth that whom praiers profit either they profit them for full remission as they doe men dying in the lesser sinnes or that their damnation may bee the more tolerable and easie The Papists applying these latter words of more tollerable damnation to the state of soules in their supposed Purgatory is absurd for they cānot in any proper sense be said to be dāned These things being thus distinguished wee see there is nothing found in Augustine for confirmation of the Popish error touching Purgatory that no testimonies of Augustine could seale vp M. Higgons his heart in this idle conceit of Purgatory as vntruly he sayth they did that wee no way oppose our selues against the vniuersall resolution and practice of the whole Church which to do Augustine pronounceth insolent madnesse that we no way contradict this worthy Father reporting to vs the doctrine and tradition of the Church and consequently that Higgons ridiculously and idlely asketh whether Augustine or I know better the sense and iudgment of Anti◅uity thereupon childishly making a comparison betweene him and me for I make no question but he knew the sense of Antiquity right well neither do I dissent from him in any thing that he constantly deliuereth and for the comparison confesse my selfe vnworthy to be named the same day but whereas hee saith hee found sincetity in him vnfaithfulnes in me I defie the faithles Apostata challenge him or any of the proudest of his consorts to tell me truely wherein I haue shewed the least vnfaithfulnesse It seemeth he measureth other men by himselfe and his companions but we are not like them making marchandize of the word of GOD. After these idle discourses he passeth from me to that reverend renowned and worthy Divine Doctor Humfrey in his time the light and ornament of the Vniuersitie that bred him whom such a silly novice as M. Theophilus durst not haue looked in the face while hee liued But it is easier to insult vpon a dead lyon then a liuing dog that maketh him barke against him but such was his great reading variety of learning in all kindes profound science and mature judgement as made him so highly esteemed at home and abroad by all that knew how to judge of things aright that the scornefull speeches of this Renegado concerning his Rhetoricall flourishes will neuer be able to diminish or lessen the good opinion that most deseruedly all wise and good men holde of him Yet let vs see what it is that this graue censurer reprehendeth in D. Humfrey surely hee knoweth not what himselfe D. Humfrey speaking of the ancient commemoration or commendation of the dead saith We retaine it in our Colledges which is most true but hee hath spied as he supposeth three differences for first as he saith the
Augustine saith he would not beleeue the Gospell if the authoritie of the Church did not moue him hee vnderstandeth by the name of the Church the Primitiue congregation of those Faithful ones which saw heard Christ and were his witnesses Thirdly Driedo writeth thus when Augustine saith hee would not beleeue the Gospell if the authoritie of the Church did not moue him hee vnderstandeth that Church which hath beene euer since the beginning of the Christian Faith hauing her Bishops in orderly sort succeeding one another and growing and increasing till our times which Church truly comprehendeth in it the blessed company of the Holy Apostles who hauing seene Christ his miracles and learned from his mouth the Doctrine of Faith deliuered vnto vs the Evangelicall Scriptures And againe the same ◠Driedo saith that the authority of the Scripture is greater then the authoritie of the Church that now is in the world in it selfe considered But if wee speake of the vniversal Church including all Faithfull ones that are and haue beene the authority of the Church is in a sort greater then the Scripture and in a sort equall For explication whereof he addeth that as touching things that cannot bee seené nor knowne by vs we beleeue the sayings writings of men not as if they had in them in themselues considered a sufficient force to moue vs to beleeue but because by some reasons we are perswaded of them who deliuer such things vnto vs thinke them worthie to be beleeued So S. Augustine might rightly say hee would not beleeue the bookes of the Gospel if the authority of the Church did not moue him vnderstanding the vniuersal Church of which he speaketh against Manicheus which including the Apostles hath had in it an orderly course of succession of Bishops till our time For the faithfulnes trueth credit of this Church was more evident then the Trueth of the books of the New Testament which are therefore receiued as sacred true because written by those Apostles to whō Christ so many waies gaue testimony both by word and worke and the Scriptures are to be proued by the authority of that Church which included the Apostles but in the Church that now is or that includeth only such as are now liuing God doth not so manifest himselfe as hee formerly did so that this Church must demōstrat herself to be Orthodox by prouing her faith out of the Scripture With Driedo Ockam cōcurreth his words are these sometimes the name of the Church cōprehendeth not only the whole cōgregation of Catholiques liuing but the Faithful departed also in this sense blessed Augustine vseth the name of the Church in his book against the Manichees cited in the Decrees 2. dist c. palà m where the Catholique Church importeth the Bishops that haue succeeded one another frō the Apostles times the people subiect to thē And in the same sense Augustine vseth the name of the Church when he saith he would not beleeue the Gospell if the authoritie of the Church did not moue him for this Church comprehendeth in it the Writers of the bookes of the Gospell and all the Apostles so that from the authoritie of Augustine rightly vnderstood it cannot be inferred that the Pope the maker of the Canons is rather more to be beleeued then the Gospel yet it may be granted that wee must more rather beleeue the Church which hath beene from the times of the Prophets Apostles till now then the Gospel not for that men may any way doubt of the Gospell but because the whole is greater then the part So that the Church which is of greater authoritie then the Gospel is that whereof the Writer of the Gospel is a part Neither is it strange that the whole should bee of more authority then the parts These are the words of Ockam in the place cited by me Wherfore let the Reader judge whether that I cite out of Ockam be impertinent as the Treatiser saith or not To Durandus Gerson Driedo Ockam we may adde Waldensis who fully agrees with thē shewing at large that it pertayned to the Church onely in her first best and primitiue state age to deliuer a perfect direction touching the Canon of the Scripture so that shee hath no power or authority now to adde any more bookes to the Canon already receiued as out of her owne immediate knowledge But it sufficeth to the magnifying of her authority in her present estate that euen now no other bookes may bee receiued but such only as in her first and best estate shee proposed Farther adding that the saying of Augustine that hee would not beleeue the Gospell if the authority of the Church did not moue him is to bee vnderstood of the Church including the primitiue Fathers and Pastors the Apostles Scholers By this which hath bin sayd it is euident as I thinke that the former of those two constructions which I make of Augustines words hath bin approued by far better men then this Treatiser And that therefore he sheweth himself more bold then wise when he pronounceth it to be frivolous And surely if we consider well the discourse of S. Augustine I thinke it may be proued vnanswerably out of the circumstances of the fame that hee speaketh not precisely of the present Church For it is that authority of the catholicke church hee vrgeth that was begun by miracles nourished by hope increased by charity confirmed strengthned by long continuance And of that Church he speaketh wherin there had bin a succession of Bishops from Peter till that present time So that he must needs meane the Church including not onely such faythfull ones as were then liuing when hee wrote but all that either then were or had bin from the Apostles times Wherefore let vs passe to the other construction of Augustines words which is that the authority of the present church was the ground reason of an acquisit fayth an introduction leading him to a more sure stay but not the reason or ground of that faith whereby principally he did beleeue This constructiō the Treatiser sayth cannot stand because Aug saith if the authority he speaketh of be weakned hee will beleeue no longer Whence it seemeth to be consequent that it was the cause of all thē perswasion of fayth that he had then when he wrote not only of an acquisit fayth preparing fitting him to a stronger more excellent farther degree or kind of faith For the clearing of this poynt we must note that there are 3. sorts of such mē as beleeue for there are some that beleeue out of piety onely not discerning by reason whether the things they beleeue be to be beleeued as true or not the 2d. haue a light of diuine reason shining in them causing an approbation of that they beleeue the 3d. sort hauing a pure heart conscience begin already inwardly to taste that which hereafter
more fully shall be enioyed Resting in the first degree as the authority of the Church moueth vs to beleeue so if it be weakned that kind degree of faith that stayeth on it falleth to the ground hauing no other sufficient stay But if we speake of fayth in respect of her two other degrees shee hath a more sure and firme ground stay to rest vpon And therefore August affirmeth that the truth clearly manifesting it selfe vnto vs is to be preferred before all those things that commend vnto vs the authority of the church that there are certaine spiritually minded men who in this life attaine to the knowledge of heauenly truth sincere wisdome without all doubt discerning it though but in part weakly in that they are men Of which number there is no question but that Aug was one so that the authority of the Church could not be the sole or principall motiue or reason at that time when hee wrote of his present perswasion of the truth of heauenly mysteries contayned in the Gospell of Christ as the Treatiser would make vs beleeue but hauing to do with the Manichees who promised the evident and cleere knowledge of trueth but fayling to performe that they promised vrged him to beleeue that which they could not make him know to bee true he professeth that if he must beleeue without discerning the truth of that he beleeueth he must rest on the authority of the catholicke church For the Manichees had no authority sufficient to moue a man to beleeue in this sort Now the Catholicke Church commanded him not to listen to Manicheus in which behalfe if they would could weaken the authority thereof he professeth hee neither can nor will beleeue any more with such a kind of faith as they vrged him to which is without all discerning of the truth of the things that are to be beleeued Thus we see the discourse of S. Augustine no way proueth that the authority of the Church was the fole or principall ground of the highest degree or kind of faith he had but it is most euident out of the same that it serued onely as an introduction to lead to a more sure perswasion then it selfe could cause §. 5. 6. THe next thing the Treatiser hath that concerneth Mee is that I acknowledge in the Church a rule of faith descending by tradition from the Apostles according to which the Scriptures are to be expounded Whereunto I briefly answere that indeede I admit such a rule so descending vnto vs but that the rule I speake of is nothing else but a summary comprehension of the chiefe heads of Christian doctrine euery part whereof is found in Scripture and from them easily to bee collected and proued deliuered vnto vs by the guides of the Church from hand to hand as from the Apostles So that my words make nothing for proofe of the papists supposed vnwritten traditions wherefore let vs passe to that which followeth which is the Sophisticall circulation which I say Papists runne into in that they beleeue that the Church is infallibly lead into all truth because it is soe contained in the Scripture and that the Scripture is the word of God because the Church infallibly led into all truth telleth them it is In this passage he sayth I wrong Stapleton in that I charge him that in his triplication against Whitaker he affirmeth other matters to be beleeued because they are contained in Scripture and the Scripture because it is the word of God and that it is the word of God because the Church deliuereth it to be so and the Church because it is lead by the spirit and that it is lead by the spirit because it is so contained in the Scripture and the Creed For that as he saith Stapleton in the last place maketh no mention of the Scripture but of the Creed only Wherefore let vs heare Stapleton himselfe speake Whereas D. Whitaker obiecteth that Papists according to Stapletons opiniō beleeue whatsoeuer they beleeue not only by but for the Church that ingenuously he had cōfessed so much he answereth that indeed he had so professed that he euer would so professe and in another place whereas D. Whitaker saith Papistes beleeue the Church because God commaundeth them to do soe and that God doth so commaund them because the Church whose authority is sacred telleth them so he answereth that they doe not beleeue that God commaundeth them to beleeue the Church either properly or onely because the Church telleth them soe but partly because of the most manifest authorities of Scriptures sending men to the Church to bee taught by it partly moued so to doe by the Creede of the Apostles wherein we professe that wee beleeue the Catholique Church that is not only that there is such a Church but that we are members of it and that God doth teach vs by it Is here noe mention of the Scripture but of the Creed onely Doubtlesse the Treatiser hath a very hard fore-head for otherwise he could not but blush and acknowledge that hee wrongeth Mee and not I Stapleton But to make good that which I haue written that Papists either fall into a Sophisticall circulation or resolue the perswasion of their faith finally into humane motiues and inducements first it is to be obserued that noe man perswadeth himselfe of the truth of any thing but because it is euident unto him in it selfe to be as he perswadeth himselfe either in abstractiue knowledge or intuitiue intellectuall or experimentall or of affection or else because it is soe deliuered to bee by some such as hee is well perswaded of both in respect of their vnderstanding discerning aright and will to deliuer nothing but that they apprehend to be true In the former kind the inducement motiue or formall cause of mens assent to such propositions as they assent vnto is the euidence of them in themselues which either they haue originally as the first principles or by necessary deduction from things so euident as conclusions thence inferred In the latter the authority and credit of the reporter The former kind of assent is named assensus euidens the latter ineuidens of which latter sort faith is which is named a firme assent without euidence because many of the things which we are to beleeue are not nor cannot be euident vnto vs originally in themselues as the first principles of humane knowledge nor by deduction from and out of things so evident in such sort as conclusions in sciences are Yet is not this assent without all evidence For though the things beleeued be not euident in themselues yet the medium by vertue whereof we beleeue them must be evident the proofe of them by vertue of that medium Now the medium by vertue whereof we beleeue things no way evident vnto vs in themselues can be nothing else but the report of another neither is euery report of another a sufficient medium
not onely a condition but a cause of that perswasion of fayth which they haue yea the authority of the Church is the formall cause of all that faith seduced Papists haue And therefore the distinction of a cause and condition helpeth them not It is true indeed that the Ministerie of the Church proposing to men thinges to bee beleeued is onely a condition requisite to the producing of a supernaturall act of fayth in respect of them that haue some other thing to perswade them that that is true which the Church proposeth besides the authority of the Church but in respect of such as haue no other proofe of the trueth thereof it is a formall cause Now this is the condition of all Papists For let them tell Mee whether they beleeue the Scripture to be the Word of God without any motiue at all or not and if they doe not as it is most certaine they doe not whether besides such as are humane they haue any other then the authority of the Church if they haue not as doubtlesse they haue not they make the authority of the Church the formall cause of their faith and fall into that sophisticall circulation they are charged with For they beleeue the articles of religion because reuealed and that they were reuealed because it is so contayned in the Scripture and the Scripture because it is the Word of God that it is the Word of God because the Church telleth them it is and the Church because it is guided by the spirit and that it is so guided because it is so contayned in the Scripture this is such a maze as no wise man will willingly enter into and yet the Treatiser commendeth the treading of these intricate pathes and telleth vs that two causes may bee causes one of another That the cause may bee proued by the effect and the effect by the cause and that such a kinde of argumentation is not a circulation but a demonstratiue regresse that two causes may be causes either of other in diuerse respects we make no question For the end of each thing as it is desired setteth the efficient cause a worke and the efficient causeth the same to bee actually enjoyed Likewise we doubt not but that the cause may be proued by the effect and the effect by the cause in a demonstratiue regresse For the effect as better known vnto vs then the cause may make vs know the cause and the cause being found out by vs may make vs more perfitly and in a better sort to knowe the effect then before not onely that and what it is but why it is also So the death of little infants proueth them sinners and their being sinners proueth them mortall The bignesse of the footstep in the dust or sand sheweth the bignesse of his foote that made that impression And the bignesse of his foote will shew how bigge the impression is that he maketh but this maketh nothing for the justifying of the Romish circulations For heere the effect being knowne in a sort in itselfe maketh vs know the cause and the cause being found out and knowne maketh vs more perfectly to knowe the effect then at first wee did but the case is otherwise with the Papists for with them the Scripture which in it selfe hath no credit with them but such onely as it is to receiue from the Church giueth the Church credit and the Church which hath no credit but such as it is to receiue from the Scripture giueth the Scripture credit by her testimony And they endeauour to proue the infallibility of the Churches judgment out of the Scripture and the trueth of the Scripture out of the determination and judgement of the Church Much like as if when question is made touching the quality condition of two men vtterly vnknowne a man to commend them to such as doubt of them should bring no other testimony of their good and honest disposition but the testimony of each of them of the other It is true then which I haue said that to a man admitting the Old Testament and doubting of the New a man may vrge the authority of the Old and to a man doubting of the Old and admitting the New the authority of the New but to him that doubteth of both a man must alledge neither of them but must bring some other authority or proofe so likewise to him that admitteth the Scripture and doubteth of the Church a man may vrge the authority of the Scripture but to him that doubteth of both as all doe when they begin to beleeue a man must alledge some other proofe or else hee shall cause him to runne round in a Circle for euer and neuer to finde any way out Wherefore to conclude this poynt let our Aduersaries know that wee admitte and require humane motiues and inducements and amongst them a good opinion of them that teach vs as preparing fitting vs to fayth Secondly that wee require a supernaturall ayde light and habit for the producing of an act of faith Thirdly that we require some diuine motiue inducement Fourthly that this cannot be the authority of the Church seeing the authority of the Church is one of the things wee are to bee induced to beleeue Fiftly that wee require the ministery of the Church as a propounder of all heauenly trueth though her authority can be no proofe in generall of all such truth Sixtly that the Church though not as it includeth onely the beleeuers that are in the world at one time yet as it comprehendeth all that are or haue beene is an infallible propounder of heauenly truth and so acknowledged to bee by such as are assured of the trueth of the doctrine of Christianity in generall Seauenthly that the authority of this Church is a sufficient proofe of the trueth of particular things proposed by her to such as already are by other diuine motiues assured of her infallibility §. 7. FRom the authority of the Scripture which he would faine make to bee wholy dependant on the Church the Treatiser passeth to the fulnesse and sufficiency of it seeking amongst other his discourses to weaken those proofes which are brought by Mee for confirmation thereof Affirming that though I make shew as if it were a plaine matter that the Euangelists in their Gospels Saint Luke in the Actes of the Apostles and Saint Iohn in the Apocalyps meant to deliuer a perfect summe of Christian doctrine and direction of faith yet I bring no reason of any moment to proue it Whereas yet in the place cited by him I haue these wordes contayning in them as I suppose a strong proofe of the thing questioned Who seeth not that the Evangelists writing the history of CHRISTS life and death St Luke in the booke of the Acts of the Apostles describing the comming of the Holy Ghost the admirable gifts and graces powred vpon the Apostles and the churches founded and ordered by them and Saint Iohn writing the Revelations
that they are not beleiued by the Church or they shal be shewed him in those Epistles Wherfore let vs see what he hath more to say One of the Apostolicall Epistles he saith is lost namely that which Paul wrote to the Laodiceans in which there might be something necessarily to be beleeued that is not fouÌ„d in any other book of the New Testament Therefore it may be thought that there is some want imperfection in the books of the New Testament This truly is a very idle and and silly obiection for though there was a certaine Epistle to the Laodiceans carried about and read by some in auncient times yet as Hierome testifieth it was exploded by all and Chrysostome and Theodoret are of opinion that Paul neuer wrote any Epistle to the Laodiceans but that the Epistle hee speaketh of was written from Laodicea or by the Laodiceans to informe him of the state of things amongst themselues or amongst the Colossians by whom hee would haue it read And Cardinall Baronius himselfe approueth their opinion rather then the other That which he hath of my admitting traditions I will answere when I come to examine his next section §. 8. IN his next section he hath these words Barlow and Field two famous English Protestants admitte certaine Apostolicall traditions And farther hee addeth that I allow of certaine rules for the discerning of Apostolicke traditions from such as are not such Whereunto wee answere that wee admit sundry kindes of tradition and yet deny that any thing concerning fayth or the necessary direction and information of mens manners is to bee beleeued and receiued that is not written For we say nothing was deliuered by tradition but the bookes of Scripture thinges in some sort therein contayned and thence deduced and certaine dispensable obseruations not at all or hardly to be discerned from Ecclesiasticall constitutions Neither is it new or strange that wee should admit some kinds of traditions For Kemnitiuâ—… acknowledgeth all those kinds that I meÌ„tion which will no way help the Papists For the question between theÌ„ vs is not whether there be any traditions or not For it is most certaine that the bookes of Scripture are deliuered by tradition But it beeing â—…upposed that the holy men of God taught immediately by Christ his Sonne â—…ded certaine bookes to posterities and agreed on which those bookes are whâ—…her they containe all thinges necessary to bee knowne and practised by Christian â—…en for the attayning of euerlasting life and saluation Wee say they doe they deny it Yet will the Treatiser proue from hence contrary to my assertions that according to my owne grounds tradition is the very foundation of my faith For if Protestantes receiue the number names of the Authours and integrity of the parts of bookes divine and canonicall as deliuered by tradition as I say they doe and if without tradition wee cannot know such diuine bookes hee thinketh it consequent that tradition is the ground of our faith But indeede there is no such consequence as hee imagineth For it is one thing to require the tradition of the church as a necessary meaâ—…s whereby the bookes of Scripture may be deliuered vnto vs and made known another to make the same tradition the ground of our faith seeing in the judgment of the Treatiser himselfe euery thing is not the ground of our saith builded vpon Scripture without which we cannot know the Canonicall bookes of Scripture from such as are not of that ranke As it is euident in that he distinguisheth the groâ—…d of our faith reason of our beleeuing from the condition required to the producing of such an act of fayth denying the churches proposing of things to bee beleeued to be the ground of our faith and yet requiring it as a necessary condition without which ordinarily men cannot beleeue So that though we know the names of the writers of the books of holy Scripture by tradition and that there were no more bookes nor no more partes of bookes of this kinde left to posterities by the Apostles but such as the church deliuereth to vs yet it is not consequent that wee haue no other ground of our perswasion that the bookes deliuered to vs and the parts thereof are canonicall but tradition for the euidence of diuine power and majesty shewing it selfe in them more then in all humane compoÌ„sitions whatsoeuer proueth them to haue proceeded from the immediate inspiration of the holy Ghost breathing in them nothing but heauenly grace The words of holy Scripture sayth Picus Mirandula are rude and plaine but full of life and soule they haue their sting they pierce and enter in euen to the most secret spirit and strangely transforme him that with due respect readeth them and meditateth on them And besides there are sundry diuine and conuincing reasons that the summe of Christian doctrine contayned in these bookes is nothing else but heauenly truth and being without the compasse of that wee naturally vnderstand reuealed trueth So that the Treatiser doth greatly forget himselfe when hee pronounceth it to bee false that I say that the Scriptures winne credit of themselues and yeelde sufficient satisfaction to all men of their diuine truth This is the summe of all that hee hath of traditions For where hee saith I affirme that without the Creed of the Apostles wee cannot know the Scriptures to bee of God hee sheweth himselfe to care little whether that hee writeth bee true or false For I no where haue any such thing but where hee saith I affirme that Papists make traditions Ecclesiasticall equall with the written word of God and that this is one of my ordinary vntruths hee deserueth a sharper censure For if the Reader be pleased to peruse the place cited by him hee shall finde that I say no such thing nor any thing that the Pope himselfe can possibly dislike For deliuering the opinion of Papists touching traditions their diuerse kindes and the credit that is to bee giuen vnto them I shew that they make diuine traditions equall with the words precepts and doctrines of Christ left vnto vs in writing apostolicall with the written precepts of the Apostles and ecclesiasticall with the written precepts of the Pastours of the Church confessing that there is no reason why they should not so doe if they could proue any such vnwritten traditions Is this to say that Papists make Ecclesiasticall traditions equall with the written Word of God Is this one of my ordinary vntruthes or rather is not this a bewraying of an extraordinary impudency in him that so saith Surely I feare the Reader will haue a very ill conceipt of him vpon the discerning of this his bad dealing Yet hee goeth forward charging Mee that I make the baptisme of Infants to be an vnwritten tradition whereas yet he knoweth right well that howsoeuer I grant it may be named a tradition in that there is no expresse precept or
reason doth he giue of his dislike these words hee saith seeme to pretend a kind of doubting or staggering which must not be allowed especially in such men as are spirituall As if a spirituall man might doubt of nothing nor be ignorant of nothing whereas yet all men know S. Augustine S. Hierome and other holy Fathers who as wee thinke were spirituall doubted of the meaning of sundry passages of holy scriptures and left many questions vnresolued If happily he say men may not doubt of matters of faith and that therefore they must not be said to haue mindes desirous of truth with resolution to embrace it it will be answered that noe man professing himselfe to be a Christian ought to doubt of such things as all Christians are bound expressely to beleeue yet are there many matters of faith that is such as must be beleeued at least implicite that faithfull men may doubt of and enquire after Yea at first when a man beginneth to beleeue hee doubteth of all points of faith and must be setled in the same by the Scriptures interpreted vnto him the diuine illumination of grace making him vnderstand them Thirdly whereas I reckon the knowledge of the rule of faith and the practise of the Saints according to the same amongst the meanes which are necessarie for the vnderstanding of the Scripture and define that rule First to bee the summary comprehension of such principall articles of diuine knowledge as are contained in the Creede of the Apostles and are the principles whence all other things are deriued Secondly all such things as all Christians are bound to beleeue expressely which haue bin euer constantly beleeued by all such as haue not beene noted for singularity and nouelty Hee sayth most men will dislike my doctrine and pronounceth this rule to bee verie vncertaine and yet presently forgetting himselfe addeth that hee hath proued in the first part of this Treatise that in very deede the Scriptures ought to bee interpreted according to the rule of faith that is the summe of Christian Religion preserued as a depositum in the Church But some man happily will say that howsoeuer he forgetteth himselfe yet hee hath good aduantage against vs. For first he argueth that if the Scripture be to bee interpreted according to the rule of faith the rule of faith it selfe is not knowne and beleeued through the authority of the Scripture Secondly hee sayth the practise of the Saints from the beginning to which I require men to haue an eye in interpreting Scripture canne very hardly be gathered out of the monuments of Antiquity according to my grounds For answere to which obiections First I say that the particular and seuerall parts of Scripture must bee interpreted according to the rule of fath that is the summe of Christian Doctrine receiued in the Church and that yet the same summe of Christian doctrine is no otherwise to bee receiued by vs but because it hath beene deliuered by the Church as gathered out of the due comparing of one part of Scripture with another and from thence confirmed and proued Neither must wee firmely rest in the direction of it till the Church make vs see and discerne how it is gathered out of seuerall places of Scripture layd together Secondly that the practise of the saints may bee knowne out of the monuments of antiquity soe farre forth as is necessary for the helping of vs to vnderstand the Scriptures without any such difficultie as the Treatiser imagineth For example when Saint Augustine was to interpret certaine places of Scripture touching the deriuation of sinne from Adam and to cleare the point whether it were by naturall propagation or by imitation onely as the Pelagians thought it was not hard for him to know that the Church did euer most carefully present her new borne infants to Baptisme before they could bee mis-led and drawne away to euill by following the example of Adams disobedience thence to infer that she euer beleeued that infants are conceiued and borne in sinne and consequently that the propagation of sinne from Adam is naturall and not by imitation onely The fourth thing that I require in him that will take vpon him to interprete the Scripture is a due consideration what will follow vpon his interpretation agreeing with or contrary to the things generally receiued beleeued amongst Christians against which he hath nothing to say yet that hee might bee thought to say something first hee challengeth Luther for not obseruing this rule And secondly affirmeth that it is insufficient if at any time almost all Christians may erre as I teach But first concerning Luther the good man should know that hee cannot iustly be charged with the breach of this rule seeing he broached no new doctrine in the Church as the Treatiser vntruly affirmeth but such as had the testimony of Antiquity and the allowance of innumerable Christians in his time as well in the West as in the East And secondly that the possibilitie of the erring of the greatest part of the Church prejudiceth not this rule he might if hee pleased learne out of Vincentius Lirinensis who acknowledgeth that sometimes error may ouer-spread almost all the present church prescribeth that in such a case men should looke vp higher into antiquity The two other ensuing rules to wit consideration of the circumstances of the places interpreted the occasion of the words the things going before following after the knowledge of all such histories arts sciences as may helpe vs in interpreting the Scripture he passeth ouer as necessary though not sufficient of themselues alone The knowledge of the originall tongues he acknowledgeth to bee profitable but will not admit it to be necessary especially according to the conceipt of the Romanists First because they are sure they haue the Scriptures rightly translated Secondly because they make not the Scripture the propounder of their beleefe but expound it according to the rule of Faith deliuered receiued In which passages he bewrayeth grosse ignorance For first the Romanists are not sure that they haue the Scripture truly translated as it appeareth by that which Andradius hath written who proueth at large that though the vulgar translation were allowed of by the Councell of Trent as containing nothing in it whence any heresie or errour in faith may be inferred yet is it not without many great mistakings And secondly if they were sure yet as Melchior Canus sheweth the knowledge of tongues is needfull for the finding out of the meaning of sundry particular places of Scripture by reason of some ambiguity or obscurity in the translation Thirdly for that though the rule of Faith serue for direction in generality so that following the same we may bee sure not to decline from the truth of doctrine yet will not that rule secure vs from all erring and swaruing from the meaning of each place in particular so that in this respect the
reason wee can discerne no such thinges as in this heauenly doctrine are manifested to vs. Thirdly the reuelation that is now being mediate and depending on a former it must of necessity be graunted that there was a first and immediate reuelation of the things that are beleeued Fourthly that that immediate reuelation was without mixture of error there being no imperfection found in any of Gods immediate workings Fifthly that whatsoeuer bookes they wrote to whom that immediate reuelation of heauenly truth was graunted are diuine without mixture of error and Canonicall Sixtly that all such books as are recommended to vs by the consenting testimony of all Christians not noted for singularity nouelty or heresie as written by those who first learned the doctrine of heauenly truth from God himselfe must be acknowledged to haue bin written by them Which perswasion is confirmed in that when wee reade and meditate vpon the bookes soe commended to vs wee finde a maiesty vertue and power appearing in them more then in all humane compositions captiuating vs to the the obedience of faith and making vs to receiue them as vndoubtedly diuine These are the grounds which wee build vpon Wherefore let the Reader judge whether the Treatiser had any cause to write as hee doth that hee cannot sufficiently maruel that I or any man of iudgement or learning should runne these courses and impugne their doctrine concerning these points as absurd which indeede is most prudent and diuine and yet fall into most grosse absurdities and inconueniences How prudent and diuine their doctrine is touching the ground of their faith I haue shewed before making it most cleare that if they did shew no more prudence in any thing else their part would soone bee ouerthrowne But touching the absurdities into which hee supposeth wee runne they will bee found to bee none at all For as I haue shewed at large wee ground our faith in generall vppon the euidence of heauenly trueth and the authority of Almighty God whom wee discerne to speake in the holy Scriptures and yet in such sort listen to the Church as a Mistresse of heauenly truth in all particular points that wee do not broach any new and strange doctrine vnheard of in the Church nor impugne any thing that was alwaies constantly deliuered and receiued in the same Soe that it is vntrue that the Treatiser sayth that I reiect all generall authority and leaue euery man to follow his owne priuate conceipt hee returneth therefore to proue that supposing wee know the letter of Scripture yet haue wee no certaine rule to finde out the sence of it and mustereth some obiections to this purpose which I haue sufficiently answered already in the defence of the rules proposed by mee and impugned by him Neyther is it soe strange as hee would make it that we confesse euery one though neuer so much enlightned to bee subiect to errour and yet each of vs assureth himselfe hee doth not erre from the Christian verity one hauing no more assurance of not erring then another For is it not soe that in respect of things that may bee knowne by the light of naturall reason each one confesseth himselfe to be subiect to error and yet euery one assureth himselfe he doth not erre in sundry particular things Wherefore hee leaueth this point and proceedeth to another where he bewrayeth the weaknesse of his braine labouring seriously to proue that he who buildeth his faith vppon the English Parliament cannot firmely and vndoubtedly beleeue nor haue any true fath because I say wee can neuer be so well perswaded of any man or multitude of men but that we may iustly feare they are deceiued or will deceiue Truly it had beene well that hee had applyed himselfe to some other thing rather then booke-making vnlesse hee had any greater facility and felicity in it then he hath for who was euer so senselesse as to build his Faith vpon the English Parliament or why doth the Treatiser thus fight with his owne shadow But haply he will be better towards the end §. 6. IN the last place speaking of the supposed divisions and dissentions amongst Protestants he sayth some amongst vs are so bolde as to deny that there is any great or materiall dissention in our Churches that I amongst others write that it so fell out by the happy providence of God when there was a reformation made that there was no materiall or essentiall difference amongst them that were actors in it but such as vpon equall scanning will bee found rather to consist in the diuers manner of expressing one thing to be but verball vpon mistaking through the hasty and inconsiderate humours of some men then any thing else And that further I adde that I dare confidently pronounce that after due and full examination of each others meaning there shall be no difference found touching the matter of the Sacrament the vbiquitary presence or the like betweene the Churches reformed by Luthers ministery in Germany and other places and those whom some mens malice called Sacramentaries that none of the differences betweene Melancthon and Illyricus except about certaine ceremonies were reall that Hosiander held no priuate opinion touching iustification howsoeuer his strange manner of speaking gaue occasion to many so to thinke and conceiue and that this shall be iustified against the proudest Papist of them all this my assertion he saith all the world knoweth to be vntrue and endeavoureth to proue it to be so First by mine owne sayings else-where and then by some other proofes By mine owne sayings in that I complaine of vnhappie divisions in the Christian world and of infinite distractions of mens mindes not knowing in so great varietie of opinions what to thinke or to whom to ioyne themselues that the controversies of Religion in our time are growne in number so many in nature so intricate that few haue time leasure fewer strength of vnderstanding to examine them But this proofe will be found too weake For there are many very materiall divisions in the Christian world infinitely distracting the mindes of men as those of the Greekes Latines those of the Romish Faction such as embrace the reformed Religion and the controversies that are betweene these are in number many and in nature intricate in respect whereof my complaint might bee most iust though neuer any one Protestant had opened his mouth against an other And besides supposing my complaint of diuisions in the Christian World to reach to the breaches that are haue beene amongst the Professours of the Reformed Religion nothing can bee inferred from thence contrary to any thing that I haue written touching the agreeing of these men in iudgement opinion For there may bee great breaches betweene such men as are of one iudgement opinion vpon mistaking one another therefore Gregory Nazianzene in his Oration made in the praise of Athanasius sheweth that the whole world in a
Faith and Religion His meaning it seemeth is that all Protestantes acknowledging Puritanes to bee of one Church with them are Puritanes and therefore hee would haue all to know that howsoeuer hee make shew of blaming Puritanes onely or principally yet in truth hee equally condemneth all and that therefore hee doth but dissemble or say hee knoweth not what But do all these Protestant writers named by him teach that there is no materiall difference betweene protestants and Puritanes Surely no. For touching my selfe I neuer wrote any such thing neither in the place cited by him nor any where else so that hee beginneth with a manifest and shamelesse vntruth But I doe the more willingly pardon him this fault for that it seemeth hee doth not consider what he writeth For in the title of his booke hee professeth that hee will take the proofes of his Catholique religion and Recusancy onely from the writings of such Protestant Diuines as haue beene published since the raigne of his Maiesty ouer this kingdome for that as hee sayth they often change their opinions at the least at the comming of euery new Prince And yet page 30. hee citeth the Bishop of Winchesters booke written many yeares agoe and Doctor Couell his booke in defence of Master Hooker as often as any other which yet was written in her late Maiesties time But what if I had written that howsoeuer there are some materiall differences betweene Protestants and Puritanes as it pleaseth him to stile them yet not so essentiall or substantiall but that they may bee of one Church faith and religion What absurdity would haue followed Would it be consequent from hence as he inferreth that it is not materiall with vs whether men be of a true or false religion of any or none at all Haue there not beene nay are there not greater differences betwixt Papists who yet will be angry if they be not esteemed to be all of one Church faith and religion Did not Pope Iohn the two and twentith thinke that the soules of the just shall not see God till the generall resurrection and did not the French King that then was with the whole vniuersity of Paris condemne the same opinion as hereticall with sound of trumpet Did not Ambrosius Catharinus teach that a man may be certaine with the certainty of faith that he is in state of grace and Soto the contrary Did not Pighius Contarenus and the Authors of the booke called Antididagma Coloniense defend imputatiue justice and other Papists reiect it Did not some amongst them teach the merit of condignity doe not others moued with a sober moderation thinke there is no such merit Doe not some thinke the Pope is vniuersall Bishop others that he is not but prime Bishop onely Doe not some teach that all Bishops receiue their jurisdiction from the Pope others the contrary Doe not some thinke the Pope may papally erre and others that he cannot Doe not some of them thinke he is temporall Lord of all the world and others the contrary Doe not so 〈◊〉 them thinke he may depose Princes and others that he may not is there not a very materiall point of difference amongst Papists touching predestination Let them shew vs if they can so many and materiall differences betweene Protestants and Puritanes And yet these were all of one Church in their judgement yea Pope Stephen who reuersed all the actes of Formosus his predecessour pronounced the ordinations of all those to bee voide whom he had ordained brought his dead body out of the graue into the Councell stript it out of the Papall vesture put vpon it a lay habit and cutting off two fingers of his right hand cast it into Tyber Pope Iohn his successour who called a Councell of 74. Bishops to confirme the ordinations of Formosus the Arch-bishoppes of France and the King being present at Rauenna burned the acts of the Synod which Stephen had called to condemne Formosus and Sergius who againe condemned Formosus and pronounced all his ordinations to be voide reuersing the acts of Pope Iohn and his Synode were all of one Church of one communion faith and religion Nay which is more strange when there were three Anti-popes sitting in diuerse places accursing one another with all their Adherents and that for many yeares yet still they were of one Church of one communion faith and religion Yet may not wee inferre from hence against them as they doe against vs that it is not materiall with them whether men be of a true or false religion of any or none at all Surely they are more priuiledged then other men for some of them may take the Oath of Allegeance disclaime the Popes power and right to intermeddle with Princes states and other refuse it and yet still be Catholicke brethren in the communion of the same Church Yea a Priest may like of this Oath and perswade others to take it and afterwards goe ouer the Sea and alter his iudgement and returning choose rather to suffer death then to take it againe yet no man must take notice of it But if a Minister subscribe and afterwards vpon ill aduice refuse to doe the same againe then all the courses of our Religion are such that by no outward signes communion profession protestation or subscription a man can tell who is of what religion amongst vs. But let vs passe from the Epistle to the booke it selfe CHAP. I. IN the first chapter which is of the supreame and most preeminent authority of the true church and how necessary it is to finde it follow the directions and rest in the iudgement of it he hath these words Doctor Field a late Protestant writer beginneth his Dedicatory Epistle to the Lord Archbishop of Canterburie before his Bookes of the church in this manner There is no part of heauenly doctrine more necessary in these dayes of so many intricate controversies of Religion then diligently to search out which amongst all the societies of men in the world is that blessed company of holy ones that household of Faith that spouse of Christ and church of the liuing God which is the pillar and ground of truth that so we may embrace her communion follow her directions and rest in her iudgement And after some other things cited out of others he addeth the ioyning with the true church is so needfull a thing that D. Field concludeth There is no saluation remission of sinnes or hope of eternall life out of the church To what purpose this allegation serueth I cannot conceiue for there is nothing in any of these speeches of mine that euer any protestant doubted of or from which any thing may bee concluded against vs or for the papists The church of God saith Master Caluine is named the Mother of the Faithfull neither is there any entrance into eternall life vnlesse shee conceiue vs in her wombe vnlesse shee
bring vs forth vnlesse her pappes doe giue vs sucke and vnlesse shee keepe vs vnder her custodie and gouernement till hauing put off this morâ—… flesh we become like the Angels in Heauen Adde hereunto saith he that ouâ—…â—…r lappe and bosome there is no remission of sinnes nor saluation to be looked for as both Esaias and Ioel testifie to whom Ezekiel subscribeth when hee denounceth they shall not bee reckoned amongst the people of God whom he excludeth from eternall life The onely thing that is any way doubtfull is how far we are bound to rest in the iudgment of the church For the clearing whereof the Author of these proofes hauing taken so much paines to reade ouer my bookes of the church to take some advantage by them against the truth of Religion professed amongst vs might haue beene pleased to remember those different degrees of obedience which wee are to yeeld to them that commaund teach vs in the church of God Which I haue noted in the Fourth Booke and fifth chapter out of Waldensis excellently described and set down by him in this sort We must saith he reuerence and respect the authority of all Catholique Doctors whose doctrine and writings the church alloweth We must more regard the authority of Catholique Bishops more then these the authority of Apostolique churches amongst them more specially the church of Rome of a generall councell more then all these yet must wee not so listen to the determinations of any of these nor so certainely assent vnto them as to the things contained in Scripture or beleeued and taught by the whole vniuersall church that hath beene euer since the Apostles times but as to the instructions of our elders and fatherly admonitions and directions wee must obey without scrupulous questioning with all modesty of minde with all good allowance acceptation and repose in the words of them that teach vs vnlesse they teach any thing which the higher and superiour controlleth And yet if they doe the humble and obedient children of the church must not insolently insult vpon them from whom they are forced to dissent but they must dissent with a reverent child-like and respectfull shamefastnesse And else-where hee saith The church whose Faith neuer faileth according to the promise made to Peter who bare the figure of the church when CHRIST saide vnto him I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not is not any particular church as the church of Africa within the bounds whereof Donatus did include the whole nor the particular Romane church but the vniuersall church not gathered together in a generall councell which hath sometimes erred as that at Ariminum vnder Taurus the gouernour and that at Constantinople vnder Iustinian the yonger but it is the catholique church dispersed through the whole world from the baptisme of CHRIST vnto our times which doeth vndoubtedly holde the true faith and faithfull testimony of Iesus Yea the same authour is of opinion that though it argue great contumacy for a man to dissent from a generall Councell without conuincing reason yet not perfidious impiety vnlesse he know or might know if the fault were not in himselfe that in so dissenting hee dissenteth from the Scripture or the determination of the vniuersall Church that hath beene since the Apostles times which onely is absolutely priuiledged from erring Thus then I hope the indifferent Reader will easily discerne that hitherto the authour of Protestant proofes hath found no proofe for Romish religion in any thing that I haue written let vs come therefore to the second chapter CHAP. 2. IN the second chapter wherein he endeauoureth to proue by the testimonies of Protestants that the Romane Church euer was and still is the true Church of Christ he citeth foure things as written by mee The first is touching the supreme binding commanding authority that is in the Church His words are these Doctour Field writeth that the supreame binding commanding authority is onely in Bishops in a generall Councell The second is touching the definition of the church set downe in the Articles of religion Art 19. that it is the congregation of faithfull ones in the which the pure word of God is preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs institution in all those thinges that of necessity are requisite to the same whereunto he saith I agree The third is that the true Church of God is subiect vnto errours of doctrine which are not fundamentall The fourth that the Romane Church is the true Church of God His words are these I thinke no man will deny the Church of Rome to be the same it was at the comming of Luther and long before and Doctor Field writeth that the Romane and Latine Church continued the true Church of God euen till our time And again We doubt not but the Church in which the Bishop of Rome exalted himselfe with more then Lucifer like pride was notwithstanding the true Church of God that it held a sauing profession of the trueth in Christ and by force thereof conuerted many countries from error to the way of truth and he farther acknowledgeth with Doctor Couel others that Luther and the rest of his religion were baptized receiued their Christianity ordination and power of ministery in that Church as the true visible and apparant Church of Christ. Hee telleth farther that divers of the Romane Church not only of the ignorant but of the best learned were saued and are Saints in heauen These are his allegations Now let vs see what is to be said vnto them Touching the first it is most vndoubtedly true that the supreame and highest externall binding commanding authority is onely in Bishops and others assembled in a generall Councell but what will he inferre from hence All men saith he doe know Doctor Sutcliffe with others acknowledge that the Protestants haue had no such councell and what then therefore they are not the Churches of God O impious and wicked conclusion For hereby all the churches of the world 300. yeares after Christ are proued not to haue beene the true churches of Christ seeing as it is euident there was no generall Councell all that while so that Christianity was rent into factions for want of this remedy as Isidorus testifieth But saith hee the Protestant Relatour of religion teacheth that this preheminence meanes and remedy is onely in the Church of Rome This is most false for howsoeuer he thinketh it not impossible for the Romanists to haue a generall Councel of those of their own faction yet he knoweth it lieth not in them to procure a Councell absolutely generall or Oecumenicall Nay we see that for many hundred yeares there hath not beene any generall Councell of all Christians wherin a perfect consent and agreement might be setled but the greatest parts of the Christian world haue remained diuided from the Romane Church for the space of 6. or 7. hundred yeares If the Author of these proofes shall say they
and so much to be desired yet if they cannot bee had the truth may be found out by other meanes yea haue not the Fathers in factious times complained that they neuer saw good end of any councell and yet were resolued in matters of the faith and able to settle others also CHAP. 7. IN this chapter wherein he indeauoureth to shew that traditions are of equall authoritie with Scripture and yet proue the Romane Religion he hath these wordes The dignity and authority of vnwritten and Apostolicall traditions being lawfully proued was euer esteemed such that M. Wootton affirmeth out of all question we are bound to keep them and telleth that M. Perkins was of the same minde This is an ill beginning for whereas he should proue that the Apostles deliuered some matters of faith by bare tradition without writing hee bringeth forth some that say if it could be proued that any thing was so deliuered it were to bee receiued with no lesse regard then if it had beene written which is as if a man should vndertake to proue out of Paules Epistles that the Angels in Heauen and the Apostles of CHRIST are to bee anathematized and accursed because hee saith If wee or an Angell from heauen preach any other doctrine then that yee haue receiued holde him accursed Wherefore to helpe the matter and to make some shew at the least whereas wee say If any thing could bee proued to haue beene deliuered by the Apostles by tradition it were no lesse to be esteemed then things of the same nature written by them hee citeth our words as if we confessed there were certaine vnwritten Apostolicall traditions which were euer esteemed equall with the Scripture but not before they were proued to bee such D. Field saith he speaketh of such traditions in these words There is no reason but these should be equall with Scripture for it is not the writing that giueth these things their authoritie but the worth and credite of him that deliuereth thē though but by word and liuely voice onely In this allegation he wrongeth me no lesse then in other before for these are not my words as he vntruely affirmeth against his owne knowledge but speaking of the diuerse kindes of vnwritten traditions imagined by the Papists I say All these in their seuerall kindes they make equal with the words precepts doctrines of Christ the Apostles and Pastors of the Church left vnto vs in writing neither is there any reason why they should not doe so if they could proue any such vnwritten verities for it is not the writing that giueth things their authoritie but the worth and credite of him that deliuereth them The onely doubt is whether there be any such traditions or not Is this to acknowledge that there are vnwritten traditions of equall authoritie with the Scriptures If one of his fellowes should tell him if he were Pope he could not erre would he inferre his fellow were so mad to thinke he could not erre that doth nothing else but erre and mistake all that he citeth But he saith I adde that the perpetuall virginity of our Lady was a tradition only receiued by such authority so do other Protestants that both they I acknowledge Heluidius was condemned of heresie iustly for denyall thereof which could not be except to deny the doctrine of true traditions were to deny the word of God in their iudgements This is an other notable and shamelesse falsification For I neither say the perpetuall virginity of our Lady was a tradition nor that Heluidius was condemned and that iustly for the deniall thereof but my wordes are The Canon of Scripture being admitted as deliuered by tradition though the Diuine trueth of it bee in it selfe cleare not depending of the Churches authority there is no matter of Faith deliuered by bare and onely tradition as the Romanists imagine The onely cleare instance they seeme to giue is touching the perpetuall virginity of Mary which they say cannot be proued by Scripture and yet is necessary to bee beleeued But they should knowe that this is no poynt of Christian faith That shee was a virgine before in and after the birth of Christ wee are bound to beleeue as an article of our faith and so much is deliuered in Scripture and in the Apostles Creede but that shee continued so euer after is a seemely trueth fitting the sanctitie of the blessed virgine and is de pietate but not de necessitate fidei Neither was Heluidius condemned of heresie for the deniall hereof but by such as thought it might bee proued out of Scripture or by such as detested and condemned his madnesse and desperate singularity in pertinaciously vrging the deniall of it vpon mis-construction of Scripture as if the deniall of it had beene a matter of faith And surely whatsoeuer this man thinke to the contrary Melchior Canus is of opinion that the perpetuall virginity of Marie the mother of our Lord is not beleeued onely or principally as deliuered by tradition but that the very consideration of the respect that was due to so sanctified a vessell of the incarnation of the Sonne of God as was her body would make vs perswade our selues shee neuer knew man after she was so much honoured as to be the mother of God This consideration no doubt moued the Fathers to be of this opinion rather then any tradition In the next place hee setteth downe my discourse and diuision of traditions approued by Protestants in the twentieth chapter of my fourth booke of the Church leaving out diuerse thinges in setting downe the same for his most aduantage as the Reader will easily perceiue if hee peruse the place But to what purpose hee produceth this discourse diuision of mine I know not For first if he thinke that I now yeeld more vnto thē in the matter of traditions thē our Diuines heretofore haue done as he seemeth to doe in that he saith though vntruly that I preuent and confute the vsuall objections of Protestants about the doctrine of traditions he is greatly deceiued For Chemnitius in his Examen of the Tridentine Councell admitteth all those kinds of traditions which I haue deliuered I will set down his discourse in his own words that the reader may see he saith fully as much as I haue done Primum genus traditionum est quòd Apostoli tradiderunt doctrinam viuâ voce sed illa postea in scriptura literis consignata est Secundum genus traditionum est quòd Libri Scripturae sacrae non interrupt â serie temporum sicut Augustinus loquitur certa connexionis successione ab Ecclesia custoditi fideliter ad posteros transmissi nobisque quasi per manus traditi sunt Tertium genus traditionum constituimus illud de quo loquuntur Irenaeus lib. 3. Tertullianus de Praescript Recitant autem quid sit illud quod ex traditione probant sunt illi ipsi articuli fidei
quos symbolum Apostolicum complectitur Illos autem in scriptura multis manifestis testimonijs tradi nullum est dubium Quartum genus traditionum est de expositione vero sensu seu natiuâ sententiâ scripturae Quintum genus traditionum constituimus illud quod Patres aliquando ita vocant illa dogmata quae non totidem literis syllabis in scripturâ ponuntur sed bonâ certâ firmâ manifestâ Ratiocinatione ex perspicuis scripturae testimoniis colliguntur Sextum genus traditionum constituimus illud quod de Catholico Patrum consensu dicitur Septimum genus traditionum est quod vbi Veteres mentionē faciunt traditionū non scriptarum propriè non intelligunt dogmata fidei extra praeter Scripturam recipienda etiamsi nullo Scripturae testimonio probare possunt sed de ritibus consuetudinibus quibusdam vetustis loquuntur quos propter antiquitatem ad Apostolos retulerunt Verisimile est quosdam etiam alios externos ritus qui in scripturâ annotati non sunt ab Apostolis traditos esse nullis quidem certis firmis documentis probari potest qui sunt ritus certò ab Apostolis traditi qui ex Scriptura ostendi non possunt These are the words of Chemnitius wherby it appeareth that he admitteth all those kinds of tradition which I doe and yet reiecteth the imagined traditions of Papists D. Whitakers likewise acknowledgeth that the Apostles of Christ ordained appointed in the Churches certaine rites and obseruations for order comelinesse which they did not commit to writing because they were not of necessity to bee perpetually obserued in one and the same sort but dispenseable according to the circumstance of times and places This hee proueth out of the first to the Corinthians the 11 and 14 chapters Secondly if hee thinke their erronious opinion touching traditions may be inferred from any thing that I acknowledge he seemeth to bee too weake in vnderstanding and not to know what the state of the question is betweene them and vs for the question is not whether there be any traditions or not but whether it being first supposed that the Prophets Apostles and other holy men of God left vnto posterities diuine and sacred bookes and it being agreed vpon which they ate they containe all things necessary to be knowne and practised by Christian men for the attaining of euer lasting life and saluation We say they doe Neither can he proue the contrary out of any thing written by me For I acknowledge nothing to haue beene deliuered by tradition but the bookes of Scripture things therein in some sort contained and certaine dispenseable obseruations not at all or hardly to be discerned from Ecclesiasticall constitutions Let vs see therefore what hee can conclude out of any thing that I haue written for the confirmation of the Romish errour To make saith hee a short reflexion vpon his doctrine by his first rule of traditions he must graunt vnto vs which I haue proued before at large that all those bookes which the Romane church approueth for Scripture together with the speciall doctrines of prayer for the dead to Angels c. are traditions For Doctour Field and his rules doe so assure vs. It seemeth my case is harder then I was ware of my danger greater then I supposed it had beene But what are those rules assigned by mee which assure vs that all the bookes approued by the Romane church are canonicall Haue they beene euer holden to bee so Haue the most famous in all ages or at the least in diverse ages constantly deliuered them vnto vs as receiued by them from those that went before thē no man doubting of them Did the Pastors of any Apostolicall church in the world successiuely deliuer them as canonicall to their after-commers He knoweth they did not For as I haue else-where proued Melito Bishop of Sardis Origen Athanasius Hilary Nazianzene Cyrill Epiphanius the Councell of Laodicea Ruffinus Hierome Gregory Damascene Hugo de sancto Victore Richardus de Sancto Victore Petrus Cluniacensis Lyranus Dionysius Carthusianus Hugo Cardinalis Thomas Aquinas Occham Picus Mirandula Waldensis Armachanus Driedo Caietane and all the most famous Diuines in all ages reiect them saue onely Augustine the third Councell of Carthage some few other who yet as Caietane thinketh receiued them not as absolutely canonicall but in a sort onely in that they containe a convenient good direction of manners The Reader I doubt not will easily see his folly in this point But it may bee the speciall doctrines of prayer for the dead and to Angels whereof hee speaketh will bee found Apostolicall traditions by those rules that I allow of Surely no for howsoeuer it was a most auncient and laudable custome of the church to remember the names of the dead at the holy Altar and Table of the Lord with desire of their and our finall consummation and publique acquitall in the day of CHRIST and some particular men doubtfuly extended the same practise and custome farther to the mitigating suspending or totall remouing and taking away of the punishments of Christian men dying in the state of mortall sinne yet the Popish opinion of Purgatory and prayer to deliuer men from thence were not once heard of in the Primitiue Church nor are yet receiued by the greatest part of the Christian world Touching prayer to Angels it was condemned by the Apostle Saint Paul the councell of Laodicea Augustine Theodoret but that the church did invocate Angels from the beginning that the most famous in all ages did teach men so to doe or the Pastors of any Apostolicall church successiuely one after another which are my rules he speaketh of neither hee nor any Papist liuing can euer proue The second thing he would inferre out of my words is that wee must of necessitie resort to the Romish church to know and learne the forme of Christian doctrine the explication of the seuerall parts thereof and the obscurities of Scripture for that I say the Apostles deliuered the forme of Christian doctrine as a tradition to posterities no posterity of Protestants can be of this posterity because both their priorities posterities deny traditions Thus then the good Author reasoneth The Protestants are none of those posterities to which the forme of Christian doctrine hath been deriued frō the Apostles by the line of succession therefore we must resort to the Roman church to know it The antecedent of this argument he proueth because as hee saith both priorities posterities of Protestants deny all traditions Surely the man cōmitteth so many faults in this one silly argument that I know not well what first to except against For neither is it consequent that if Protestants be not of that posterity to which the forme of Christian doctrine was commended and deliuered from the Apostles that we must of necessitie seeke to the Romane church to learne it Neither doe Protestants deny
all traditions as he vntruly affirmeth but onely the false imagined and vaine traditions of Papists and other heretickes Wee therefore to silence this trifler doe professe that the forme of Christian doctrine is not to bee sought in the Romane church alone or the other Christian churches that now presently are in the world but in the consenting voyce of Pastours and people succeeding one another they that went before euer reporting deliuering to them that came after them the things they had learned of their elders that so what doctrine the Apostles first deliuered might by their after-commers be deliuered to all posterities Of these posterities we professe our selues to be receiuing without any doubt or questioning whatsoeuer we find to haue beene deliuered in all places at all times by all Christian men not noted for heresie or singularitie and reiecting those things that haue no testimony of antiquity as the Popes not erring his vniuersalitie of iurisdiction his power and right to dispose the kingdomes of the world priuate Masses halfe communions Papall indulgences and all such things as any way carry the marke of noveltie and singularitie But saith he D. Field in the fourth and fifth kindes of traditions speaketh of them in the plurall number and yet giueth no example of the fourth but the baptisme of infants nor of the fifth and last but the obseruation of Lent and Sunday or the Lords day therefore hee must seeke for more then hee remembreth and consequently in all equall iudgement as many articles of Catholique religion as wee claime by tradition The answer hereunto is easie for touching the fourth kinde of tradition I define it to be the continued practise of such things as are neither contained in Scripture expressely nor the example of such practise there clearely and expressely deliuered though the grounds reasons and causes of the necessitie of such practise be there contained and the benefite or good that followeth of it The onely example I giue of this kinde of tradition is the baptisme of infants yet may I speake in the plurall number as I doe because not onely the baptisme of infants is of this sort but many very materiall things belonging thereunto as that in time of danger of death they are to bee baptized with all possible speede lest we seeme to contemne or neglect the Sacrament that this may be done in priuate houses either by dipping or sprinkling as well before as after the eighth day If this Author can tell vs of any more examples of things of this kinde the necessitie whereof may bee proued out of Scripture though the practise of them be not there expressed wee will admit them but they will make nothing for the confirmation of Popish vnwritten traditions seeing such things are written in respect of the causes and grounds of the necessity of obseruing them though not by way of expresse precept or report of practise and therefore it will not follow from any thing that I haue saide in the iudgment of any man though not indifferent nor equall that I must admit so many Articles of Religion as Papists shall bee pleased to claime by tradition Of the fifth and last kind of traditions which he diuideth into two though I make but one I giue but only one example which is the obseruation of the Lords day which yet appeareth by Scripture to haue beene in vse euen in the Apostles times For touching the Lent Fast I do not giue it for an example as hee vntruly reporteth but onely hauing described the fifth kind of traditions say that some thinke the Lent Fast the Fast of the fourth and sixth dayes of the weeke to be of this kinde The next thing which he vrgeth in his reflexion vpon my doctrine as he tearmeth it is that if the traditions of the last kinde bee confounded with Ecclesiasticall constitutions as I say they are that we might the more reverence the constitutions of the Church wee must at last recant our contempt and dislike against them For answere hereunto I will first shew that the traditions of the last sort are so confounded with Ecclesiasticall constitutions that it can hardly bee certainely knowne which they are Secondly that wee neuer disliked the auncient constitutions of the primitiue and first Church and therefore need not recant any such dislike That Apostolicall traditions of the last kinde are confounded with Ecclesiasticall constitutions it is most cleare euident in that some reckon one thing and some another and our Aduersaries dare not peremptorily say which amongst those traditions diuersely and differently mentioned by the Fathers are Apostolicall and which not Tertullian accounteth all these following to bee Apostolicall traditions thrice dipping of them that are baptized the interrogatories respondes and words of sacred stipulation vsed in Baptisme the renouncing of the Diuell his Angels and the pompe of the world when we come to the water of Baptisme and before in the presence of the Bishop the fore-tasting of milke and honey and the abstaining from bathing and washing a whole weeke after the taking or receiuing of the holy Sacrament in the time of ordinary repast oblations for the dead and for their birth-dayes euery yeare the same day they dyed standing at prayers on the Lords day and from Easter to Whitsontide and the signing of mens fore-heads with the signe of the crosse Harum saith he aliarum ciusmodi disciplinarum si legem expostules Scripturarum nullam inuenies traditio tibi praetendetur auctrix consuetudo confirmatrix fides obseruatrix that is Of these and the like obseruations if thou seeke for any written law or precept thou shalt finde none Tradition will be alleaged vnto thee as authour of them custome as the confirmer and faith as the obseruer Hereunto some adde praying towards the East baptising at Easter and Whitsontide onely Hierome accounteth the Lent-fast amongst traditions of this sort His words are Nos vnam quadragesimam secundum traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus Wee fast one Lent according to the tradition of the Apostles in the whole yeare at a fitte and seasonable time to whom Iansenius agreeth saying that the obseruation of the Lent-fast seemeth to haue proceeded from the tradition of the Apostles which though perhaps it did not binde all by any expresse precept from the beginning yet being kept in all ages and in all parts of the world had the strength and force of a law I thinke there is no Papist will say certainely that all these were Apostolicall traditions but whether they doe or not it is most certaine they thinke themselues no more bound to keepe them then meere Ecclesiasticall constitutions which are established by the authority of the church and may be the same be abrogated and reuersed againe in that the most part of all these are out of vse in the Romane Church For they thinke not thrice dipping necessary following therein the
authority of Saint Gregorie they fore-taste not milke and honey nor milke and wine when they are baptized they abstaine not from bathing a whole weeke after baptisme they stand not at their prayers from Easter to Whitsontide nor on the Lords dayes they keepe not the Lent fast as the Primitiue Church did and as all other Churches of Greece Armenia and Aethiopia doe to this day by eating nothing till night and by abstaining from wine strong drinke and whatsoeuer is pleasing but they make a meere mocke of God and men in their obseruation of Lent and other fasts in saying a part of their Euen-song in the morning that so after the ending thereof at dinner time men may be thought to goe to supper and to do as the Fathers did that did eate nothing on their fasting dayes till the euening they fast not the Wednesday which in the primitiue Church was fasted as precisely as Friday but in steede hereof they faste on Saturday which aunciently was not fasted in many churches nor yet is in the Churches of the East they baptize at any time in the yeare If they haue disused and left off these obseruations as no doubt they will professe they haue let them not thinke that we contemne or condemne all those auncient customes which we vse not but haue a due respect to circumstances of times and the different states of things Tertullian and the ancient thought it Nefas an vnlawfull thing to kneele at prayers on the Lords day wee thinke it very lawfull fit and seemely yet are wee not contrary to the Fathers They suffered none to bee baptized but onely at Easter and Whitsontide wee admit men to baptize at all times they dipped those whō they baptized thrise wee but once they signed themselues with the signe of the crosse when they went out and when they came in when they put on and when they put off their apparell we by reason of the abuse of this harmelesse ceremony in that it was vsed by the Romanists not as an outward profession of their faith in him that was crucified or a silent invocation of his name but to driue away diuels still tempests cure diseases and remit veniall sinnes ex opere operato vse this ceremony more sparingly yet doe we not wholly neglect it but signe our new baptized infants with this glorious marke and character of the crucified Sauiour of the world they mingled water with that wine which they consecrated in the blessed Sacrament because euen in ordinary vse their wines being hot were wont so to be allayed wee not hauing the like reason of mixture mingle not water with wine in the Sacrament as likewise the Armenians doe not yet are we not contrary to the ancient Christians nor contemners of olde obseruations So that to conclude this point we approue the saying of Hierome answering the question whether it were lawfull to faste on the Saturday or not His wordes are Ego illud te breviter admonendum puto traditiones Ecclesiasticas praesertim quae fidei non officiant it a observandas ut à maioribus traditae sunt nec aliorum consuetudinem aliorum contrario more subverti atque utinam omni tempore ieiunare possem us quod in Actibus Apostolorum diebus Pentecostes die Dominico Apostolum Paulum cum eo credentes fecisse legimus nec tamen Manichaeae haereseos accusandi sunt cùm carnalis cibus praeferrinon debeat spirituali nec hoc dico quod Dominicis diebus ieiunandum putem contextas sexaginta Diebus ferias auferam sed unaquaeque provincia abundet in sensu suo praecepta maiorum leges Apostolicas arbitretur Wherefore let vs proceed to see if he haue any thing else to say in this hisreflection as he calleth it vpon my doctrine His fourth allegation is that the rules I assigne cannot tell of any traditions to advantage Protestants which deny traditions but that both traditions and rules to know them must of necessity belong to the church Apostolique of Rome being in this question a rule of it selfe as I haue declared Surely it seemeth the good man knoweth not what he saith for in the beginning of this chapter hee affirmeth though falsly that I acknowledge the perpetuall virginity of our Lady to be a tradition and onely receiued by such authoritie and other Protestants doe so likewise And in the end of the chapter he bringeth in his Maiesty the Bishop of Winchester and Doctour Couell admitting diuerse traditions and yet heere hee saith Protestants admit no traditions If hee say that they now admit them but formerly did not hee is refuted by Brentius Chemnitius before cited who though they deny as we doe that there is any article of Faith or materiall and substantiall point of Christian doctrine deliuered by bare tradition and not written yet acknowledge all those kindes of traditions that we now doe In that which he hath that the rules assigned by me can tell of no traditions that advantage Protestants and that therefore both traditions and rules to know them must of necessitie belong to the church Apostolique of Rome there are not a few but very many grosse faults cōmitted For first the consequence is naught the rules to know true traditions from false can tell of none to advantage Protestants therefore they belong to the Romish church and is no lesse absurd then if a man should conclude in this sort Parsons the Iesuite is not a Cardinall though hee had once skarlet brought to his lodging in Rome to make his robes as Watson testifieth therefore the Author of these pretended proofes hath right to put on those robes For as there are others fit to be Cardinals though neither Parsons nor this good Author be so there are other societies of Christians in the world besides the Romanists and Protestants to which traditions and rules to know them may pertaine if Protestants haue no claime to them But the Romane Church is an Apostolicall Church planted by the Apostles of Christ and receiuing an Epistle from blessed Paul wherein she is commended therefore in my iudgment she hath not onely claime to traditions is a rule to know them by This consequence is as bad as the former for I doe not make the present profession testimony or iudgement of euery Apostolicall church to bee a rule to know true traditions by seeing there would bee no certaintie in such a rule the present profession of the Apostolicall churches of Rome Ephesus Sardis and Philadelphia being contrary the one to the other but the constant testimony that the Pastors of such a church haue giuen from the beginning But his Maiestie in open Parliament acknowledged the Romane Church to bee our mother Church therefore wee must beleeue in all things as she doth by no meanes forsake her or depart from her For the clearing of the meaning of this speech of his Maiesty and the silencing of these cauillers wee must note that the churches of
Christ in the world are of two sorts for some were planted by the Apostles themselues or their coadiutors the Euangelists by their directions which are named Apostolicall churches and some other there are that receiued not the faith immediately from the Apostles or their coadiutors but from the Churches which the Apostles had planted The former of these were euer esteemed to be mother churches in respect of the latter So the churches of Alexandria Antioche Ephesus and the like were mother churches to many famous churches in those parts of the world and so the Romane church is a mother church to many churches of the West that receiued their Christianity and faith from her neither may the daughter churches as his Maiesty excellently obserued depart farther from those mother churches from which they receiued the faith then they are departed from themselues in their best estate first establishment but as the Romanists thinke it lawfull for the daughter churches of the East to depart from those their mother churches from which they receiued their faith because as they suppose they are gone from their first faith so wee thinke with his Maiesty that we may iustly depart from our mother church of Rome because shee hath forsaken her first faith commended by the Apostle and is so farre changed that a man may seeke Rome in Rome and not finde it That which he addeth that no rules can leade vs to the finding out of any traditions that aduantage vs is most vntrue For the certaine and indubitate tradition whereby the Scriptures are deliuered vnto vs from the Apostles of Christ doth aduantage vs so much that thereby the Papacy is almost shaken to peeces and besides the forme of Christian doctrine and catholicke interpretation of Scripture brought downe vnto vs from the Apostles discouereth vnto vs the nouelties and singularities of the Romanists to our great aduantage and confirmation in the truth of our profession Hauing thus in his fancie engrossed all traditions appropriated them to the present Romane church hee goeth forward and inferreth out of my admitting some kinde of traditions and assigning rules to know them that diuers particular thinges which hee specifieth are traditions The two first instances that hee giueth are the signe of the crosse and the mingling of water with wine in the holy Sacrament whereof I haue spoken before The third is the reuerence of Images which hee saith is by my rules proued to be an Apostolicall tradition It is well he dareth not say the worshipping of Images is proued to bee Apostolicall for that by Saint Gregory and the Fathers it will be proued to be rather a Diabolicall then an Apostolicall tradition Wherefore let vs see what those rules are that proue the reuerence of Images to be Apostolicall seeing it is euident the church had them not at all for a long time and Eusebius assureth vs the making and hauing of them was by imitation of Heathenish custome The rules saith hee that proue this are the Pastors of the Apostolicall Churches in the second Nicene Councell and old custome but these are no rules assigned by me For I neuer admit the iudgement of the present Pastors of Apostolicall churches or custome to bee rules to know true traditions by and therefore much lesse make the Bishops in the second Councell of Nice to bee rules of this sort but the consenting profession of the Pastours of an Apostolicall Church successiuely from the beginning and the generall and perpetuall obseruation of a thing from the time that Christianity was first known in the world by neither of which he shal euer proue either the worshipping or reuerencing of Images to be Apostolicall The fourth thing that he saith by my rules is found to bee an Apostolicall tradition is sacrifice and prayer for the dead but herein he is deceiued or goeth about to deceiue others as in the rest For it is true indeede that the offering of the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiuing the naming of the dead and prayer for their and our ioynt consummation and publicke acquitall in the day of CHRIST is such an Apostolicall tradition as hath ground in Scripture but he can neuer proue that the offering of a propitiatory sacrifice for the dead or prayer to deliuer them out of Purgatory paines was deliuered as a tradition from the Apostles by any of my rules to wit consent of Fathers from the beginning or continued practise from the Apostles times The like I say of his fifth instance for hee cannot proue the vow of single life in Priests to haue beene from the beginning but I haue largely proued the contrary in my fifth booke of the Church So that the vow of single life is not proued out of any of the rules set downe by mee to bee an Apostolicall tradition Wherefore let vs proceede to the rest of his instances He telleth vs in the next place that we may resolue with the ancient Fathers that Reliques are to bee reverenced is a tradition because M. Willet telleth vs Vigilantius was condemned of heresie for denying it Surely it is greatly to bee doubted that he is not a sound and perfect Romish Catholique for that hee dareth not to say the worshipping of Images and Reliques is a tradition but minseth the matter and saith onely the reverencing of them is a tradition For touching the reverence of Reliques if hee meane nothing else thereby but the reverent and honourable laying vp of such parts of the bodies of Gods Saints as come to our hands it is a Christian duty that we stand bound vnto so that not onely M. Willet but we all think Vigilantius was iustly condemned if he either despised or contemptuously vsed the dead bodies of the Saints Neither neede we flye to vnwritten tradition to seeke proofes for the necessitie of this duty for they are plentiously found in Scripture but if he meane by the reverencing of Reliques the shewing of them to be touched and adored we think it impiety and know it was forbidden by S Gregory who condemneth the bringing forth of any parts of the bodies of Gods Saints departed into the sight of men to bee seene or handled of them That particular and personall absolution from sinne after confession is an Apostolicall and godly ordinance which is his next instance we make no doubt but deny that it is an vnwritten ordinance neither can this good man proue it so to bee For doth Christ in Scripture giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen to the Apostles and their successors with power to binde and power to loose with power to remit and power to retaine sinnes and is it not a written veritie that particular absolution is necessary His Maiestie on whom he fathereth this tradition did most learnedly and excellently distinguish in the conference he mentioneth three kindes of absolution from sinne making the first to bee the freeing of men from such punishments of Almighty God as sinne subiecteth them vnto
in that they offend him and this is proper to God in that he onely hath power not to punish that hath power to punish and the Ministers of the Church concurre hereunto no otherwise but onely by bringing men by force of the Word and Sacraments into such an estate wherein God finding them will not punish them The second kinde of absolution is the freeing of men from the censures of suspension excommunication penitentiall corrections and such punishments as the Church may inflict and in this kinde the Church may properly bee saide to absolue The third kinde of absolution is the comfortable assuring of men vpon the vnderstanding of their estate that they shall escape Gods fearefull punishments In these two later sorts the Ministers of the Church haue power to absolue and personall absolution in either of these senses is rightly said to be an Apostolicall and godly ordinance but it is a written ordinance and not an vnwritten tradition which is the thing that this man should proue There is another kinde of absolution imagined by the Papists which is a Sacramentall act giuing grace ex opere operato to the remission of sinnes which is not an Apostolicall ordinance but an invention of their owne whereof I haue spoken elsewhere Touching the ministration of baptisme by priuate persons in the time of necessity it is not said to bee an vnwritten tradition by the Bishoppe of Winchester and therefore it is not to this purpose no more then that Bishoppes are saide to bee Diuinae ordinationis seeing the distinct degrees of Bishops and Presbyters are proued out of the Scripture That confirmation is an Apostolicall tradition wee confesse but it is a written tradition both in respect of the first practise of it by the Apostles who laid their hands on such as were baptized by others from which authority the custome of imposing hands doth come as Hierome testifieth as also in respect of the necessity of the continuance of it in that the Apostle to the Hebrewes reckoneth the imposition of hands together with the doctrine of baptismes amongst the foundations of Christian religion We doubt not therefore but it is a fitting thing that the Bishop should confirme by imposition of hands those that are baptized by others but it is rather for the honour of Priest-hood then the necessity of any law as Hierome testifieth for that otherwise they were in a wofull case who in places farre remote die before the Bishop can come to them if none could receiue the spirit of God but by the imposition of his hands It is therefore a sacramentall complement not to be neglected but not a Sacrament But this good man will proue it to be a Sacrament First because as hee saith it is so ioyned by vs with baptisme And secondly because it hath both a visible signe and grace by the communion-booke reviued It seemeth hee was neuer any good disputer he bringeth so many weake silly arguments and yet vrgeth them as if they were vnanswerable Surely these reasons will be found too weake to proue confirmation a Sacrament if they fall into the hands of any one that will take the paines to examine them For first if hee meane that it is joyned by vs with baptisme as a Sacrament hee is greatly deceiued seeing wee joyne it only as a Sacramentall complement And secondly though it haue an outward signe and inuisible grace yet the signe is not so much a signe of that grace which the Bishop imposing hands by his prayer obtayneth for the confirmation of the parties he layeth his hands vpon as a signe of limitation or restraint specifying and setting out the partie on whom hee desireth God to powre his confirming grace and therefore it hath not the nature of a Sacrament wherein there must be a visible signe of that grace that is conferred Secondly because though the Bishop ouershadowing the party by the imposition of his hands doe in a sort expresse resemble the hand of God stretched forth for the protecting assisting and safe keeping of the party which is an inuisible grace yet it followeth not that it is a Sacrament for the fiery and clouen tongues were a visible signe of that gracious gift of the spirit which the Apostles receiued in the day of Pentecost enabling them with all fiery zeale to publish the mysteries of Gods kingdome in all the seuerall languages of the world yet were they no Sacraments as Bellarmine noteth because the grace whereof these fiery tongues were a signe was not giuen by force of this signe as a set meane appointed by almighty God So in like sort the imposition of hands is a signe of protecting assisting and safe keeping grace not giuen or obtayned by the due vse of this signe as in Sacraments but to be obtained by the prayers of the Bishop and Church of God That which he hath out of Basil is to little purpose for I hope he thinketh not the doctrine of the Trinity to be holden by bare and onely tradition without the warrant of the written word or God And if Saint Basil reckon the forme of wordes wherein we professe our faith in the blessed Trinity to bee a tradition it proueth nothing against vs seeing the thing so professed is contayned in Scripture That the ordaining of Bishops in Diocesses to rule their churches and Metropolitanes in prouinces to call and moderate Synodes was an Apostolicall tradition we make no question but we deny it to be an vnwritten tradition For whereas in the Acts Paul sendeth for the Presbyters of Ephesus to Miletum in the Reuelation it appeareth by the Epistles of the Spirit of God directed to the seauen churches of Asia that amongst many Presbyters feeding the flocke of Christ in Ephesus there was one chiefe who had a kinde of eminent power who is named the Angell of the Church and who is commended or reproued for all thinges done well or ill within the limits and bounds of the same That the Bishop of Winchester saith the Article of Christs descending into hell and the Creede wherein it is contayned is an Apostolicall tradition deliuered to the Church by the direction and agreement of the Apostles is nothing but that we all say Neither is the Popish conceit touching vnwritten Articles of religion thereby confirmed for howsoeuer the Creede of the Apostles may be said to be a tradition in respect of the orderly collection of the principall heades of Christian faith into a briefe summe and Epitome which are scattered here and there in Scripture yet no Article of this Creed is beleeued or receiued by bare and onely tradition but they are all proued out of Scripture as that worthy and learned Bishop doth most excellently confirme and proue the Article of Christs descending into hell out of the same After these particular instances this authour groweth to a generall conclusion and asketh why we may not say with the Councell of Florence cited by
which the Romanists now teach nor power of nature to doe the workes of the Lawe according to the substance of the things commanded though not according to the intention of the Law-giuer to loue God aboue all and to do actions morally good or not sinfull without concurrence of speciall grace nor election and reprobation depending on the foresight of some thing in vs positiue or priuatiue nor merit of congruence and condignity nor workes of supererogation nor counsels of perfection as they now teach nor iustification by perfection of inherent qualities nor vncertainty of grace nor seaven Sacraments properly so named nor locall presence nor Transubstantiation nor orall manducation of the body of Christ nor reall sacrificing of it for the quick the dead nor remission of sinnes after this life nor tormenting of the soules of men dying in the state of saluation in a part of hell hundred of yeares by divels in corporall fire out of which prayer should deliver them nor that the Saints heare our prayers know or are acquainted with our particular wants nor the grosse Idolatry in those times committed and intollerable abuses found in the number fashion and worship of their images nor their absolution as now they define it nor treasure of the Church growing out of the superfluitie of Saints merits not rewardable in themselues to be disposed by the Pope for supplie of other mens wants to release them out of Purgatorie by way of indulgence nor the infallibility of the Popes iudgment and plenitude of his power such and so great that he may depose Princes and dispose of their crownes and dignities and that whatsoeuer he doth he may not be brought into order or deposed by authority of the whole Christian world in a generall Councell These are the errours which wee condemne and our adversaries maintaine and defend these wee are well assured were not the doctrines of that Church wherein our Fathers liued and dyed though wee do not deny but they were taught by some in that Church All these we offer to proue to be errour in matter of our Christian faith and that seeing wee could no longer haue peace with our adversaries but by approuing these impieties wee had iust cause to divide our selues from them or to speake more properly to suffer our selues to be accursed anathematized and rejected by them rather than to subscribe to so many errours and heresies contrary to the Christian and Catholike verity CHAP. 8. Of the true Church which and where it was before Luthers time THus then it appeareth which wee thinke to haue beene the true Church of God before Luther or others of that sort were heard of in the world namely that wherein all our Fathers liued and died wherein none of the errours reproued by Luther ever found generall vniforme and full approbation in which all the abuses remoued by him were long before by all good men complained off and a reformation desired And therefore though wee accknowledge Wickliffe Husse Hierome of Prague and the like who with great magnanimity opposed them selues against the Tyranny of the See of Rome and the impiety of those who withheld the trueth of God in vnrighteousnesse who being named Christians serued Antichrist as Bernard complained of some in his time to haue beene the worthy servants of God and holy martyrs and confessours suffering in the cause of Christ against Antichrist yet doe wee not thinke that the Church of God was found onely in them or that there was no other appearance of succession of Church and ministerie as Stapleton and other of that faction falsely impute vnto vs. For wee most firmely beleeue all the Churches in the world wherein our Fathers liued and died to haue beene the true Churches of God in which vndoubtedly salvation was to be found and that they which taught embraced and beleeued those damnable errors which the Romanists now defend against vs were a faction only in the Churches as were they that denied the resurrection vrged circumcision and despised the Apostles of Christ in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia If any of our men deny these Churches to haue beene the true Churches of of God their meaning is limitted in respect of the prevailing faction that was in the Church and including them and all the wicked impieties by any of them defended in which sense their negatiue is to bee vnderstood For howsoever the Church which is not to be charged with the errours and faults of all that in the midst of her did amisse held a sauing profession of the trueth of God yet there were many and they carrying the greatest shew of the Church that erred damnably and held not a sauing profession of diuine trueth wherevpon Gerson sayth that before the councell of Constance the false opinions touching the power of the Pope did fret like a Canker preuailed so far that he would hardly haue escaped the note of heresie that had said but halfe so much as was defined in the Councell of Constance by the vniuersall consent of the whole Christian world Gregorius Ariminensis sheweth that touching the power of nature to doe things morrally good and to fulfill the law without concurrence of speciall grace touching the workes of infidels predestination reprobation and punishments of originall sinne the heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church and that not by a few or contemptible men but so manie and of soe great place that he almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers and oppose himselfe against them therein The same doth Gerson report concerning sundry lewd assertions preiudiciall to the states of Kings and Princes which the Councell of Constance could not bee induced to condemne by reason of a mighty faction that preuailed in it though many great ones much urged it and though they made no stay to condemne the positions of Wicklife and Hus seeming to derogate from the state of the Clergie though many of them might carry a good and Catholike sense if they might haue found a fauourable construction Whereupon he breaketh into a bitter complaint of the partialities and vnequall courses holden in the Church and protesteth that he hath no hope of a reformation by a councell things standing as they then did The like complaint did Contarenus make in our time that if any man did debase the nature of man deiect the pride of sinnefull flesh magnifie the riches of the grace of God and vrge the necessity of it hee was iudged a Lutheran and pronounced an Hereticke though they that gloried in the name of Catholikes were themselues Pelagian heretickes if not worse then Pelagians Alas saith Occam the time is come the blessed Apostle Saint Paule 2. Timoth. 4 prophecied of When men will not suffer wholesome doctrine but hauing their eares itching after their owne lustes get them a heape of Teachers turning their eares from the trueth and being giuen vnto fables This Prophecie is altogether fullfilled in our
saith Cassander 3 sorts of traditions for some concerne the doctrine of faith others rites and ceremonies and a third sort things done They that concerne rites and ceremonies are variable according to the different circumstances of times they that are historicall are for the most part vncertaine and are not necessarie to saluation they that are dogmaticall are certaine and perpetuall but by dogmaticall traditions wee vnderstand not any diuine verity not written or any point of doctrine not contained in the Scripture but such points of doctrine as though they are not found in precise termes in holy scripture yet are deduced from the same rightly vnderstood and interpreted as the Apostles did vnderstand and expound them to their hearers and they to such as came after them So that this tradition is nothing else but the explication and interpretation of the Scripture and therefore it may be sayd not vnfitly Scripturam esse implicatam quandam obsignatam traditionem traditionem vero esse Scripturam explicatam resignatam that the Scripture is a kind of tradition inuolued and sealed vp and that tradition is Scripture vnfolded explained and opened This is that which Vincentius Lyrinensis long since deliuered to wit that the Scripture is sufficient and containeth all things necessary to be known of a Christian man for the attaining of saluation but that for the auoiding of the manifold turnings of heretickes peruerting the same to their owne perdition wee must carefully looke to the tradition of the Church deliuering vnto vs the true sense and meaning of it By this which hath beene sayd it appeareth that the Church wherein our Fathers liued and died was in this poynt touching the sufficiencie of the Scripture an orthodoxe and true Protestant Church as it was in the former touching the canon of the Scripture CHAP. 3. Of the originall text of Scripture of the certainety and trueth of the originalls and of the authoritie of the vulgar translation I haue discoursed at large in my fourth booke and the 27. 28. chapters of the same and made it appeare that the principall and best learned divines at since Luthers time taught no otherwise touching these poynts then wee now doe so that I need not insist vpon the proofe hereof CHAP. 4. Of the translating of the Scripture into vulgar languages and of the necessity of hauing the publique liturgie and prayers of the Church in a tongue vnderstood TOuching the translating of the Scriptures it is evident that both aunciently and of late time they haue beene translated into the severall languages of almost all the countries and kingdomes of the whole world where euer Christianity prevailed There is extant a translation of the old new testament in the Armenian tongue which the Armenians now vse put forth as they suppose by Chrysostome of this George the patriarch of Alexandria maketh mention in the life of Chrysostome reporting that when by the Emperours decree hee was sent in banishment into Armenia and stayed at Cucusum hee brought the inhabitants of that region to the faith of Christ and caused the Psalmes of David together with the holy gospells and other histories of the old Testament to bee translated into the Armenian tongue that so the people of that countrey might the sooner and more easily attaine the knowledge of holy Scripture And Theodoret testifieth that the holy Scriptures were translated into the Armenian tongue before his time though hee name not the authour The Slavonians affirme that they haue the Scriptures in their vulgar tongue turned by Saint Hierome and Hierome himselfe in his epistle to Sophronius seemeth to some learned men to intimate so much But yet there is another translation also of the Scriptures into the Slavonian tongue later then that of Hieromes as Scaliger hath obserued written in the Servian character vsed in Rascia Bosina Bulgaria Moldavia Russia Moscovia and other nations of the Slavonian language that celebrate their liturgies after the Greeke ceremonie of which later Methodius the companion of Cyrill is reported to haue beene the authour The former imputed to Hierome is written in the Dalmatian character and is vsed amongst the Liburnians and Dalmatians Istrians Moravians Silesians Bohemians Polonians c. Vulphilas the Goth of whom Socrates maketh mention in his ecclesiasticall historie who liued in the yeare 370 first found out the Gothicke alphabet and first of all deliuered to the Gothes all the diuine Scriptures translated by him out of Greeke into the Gothicke tongue and catholiquely expounded them striving much against the Arrians yet in the end as Theodoret reporteth he declined to the part of Valens the Arrian Emperour moued so to doe by the threates and promises of Eudoxus the Arrian Neither were the Scriptures translated onely into these languages but into the languages of many other nations as Chrysostome and Hierome affirme and in particular into the Aegyptian Persian Indian Scythian and Sarmatian tongues and into the languages of all other nations that receiued the Christian faith as Theodoret telleth vs. As likewise in the times following we read of the like translations of the Scripture into sundry languages of such Nations as were afterwards converted to the Faith or whose languages after altered So Iohn Archbishop of Sivill about the yeare 717 translated it into the Arabique which then was the vulgar speech of that part of Spaine And Beda about the same time some part of it into the Saxon or English Methodius about the yeare 860 into the Slavonique Iacobus de Voragine Archbishop of Genua about the yeare 1290 translated the whole diuine Scripture into the Italian tongue and so did Bruciolus in our age About 200 yeares since the whole Bible was translated into French in the time of Charles the 5th and as the Rhemists tell vs in their preface before the New Testament by them translated into English since Luthers time diuerse learned Catholiques haue published the Bible in the seuerall Languages of almost all the principall provinces of the Latine Church so that the Papists themselues doe not simply condemne the translating of the Scripture into the vulgar tongues But there are some amongst them as Stapleton telleth vs who out of zeale rather then knowledge doe thinke the Lay people should bee wholly restrained from reading the Scriptures in vulgar tongues others more moderate and discreete then these as they would bee thought are of opinion that all are not to bee restrained nor all permitted to reade them but some certaine onely And therefore the Rhemists tell vs that order was taken by the Deputies of the Councell of Trent in this behalfe and confirmed by supreame authority that the holy Scriptures though truely and Catholiquely translated into vulgar tongues yet may not be indifferently readde of all men nor of any other then such as haue expresse licence thereunto by their lawfull ordinaries with good
that his lot was to burne incense when hee went into the house and Temple of the Lord. Over euery of these companies of Priests in their courses attending there were certaine priests set that were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Principes Sacerdotum that is chiefe Priests or rulers of the Priests Of these the Evangelist S. Marke speaketh when he sayth They brought Iesus to the High Priest and the Chiefe Priests sought false witnesse against him that is the Heads of the Companies of Priests who came to consult with the high priest about the putting of Iesus to death For while the policie appointed by almighty God continued there was but one that properly was named the high Priest CHAP. 6. Of the Levites HAving spoken of Aaron and his sonnes whom God chose out of all the families of the tribe of Leui it remaineth that we speake of the employment of the rest of that tribe called by the common name of Leuites These were sorted by Dauid into foure rankes for some he appointed to bee ministers of the Priests and Temple who were most specially named Leuites some Singers some Porters and others Scribes and Iudges Touching the Leuites more specially so named that attended the seruice of the Sanctuarie their office was to carie the Tabernacle and the Arke of the Couenant in the Remoues of the people till God fixed the same in one place and then they were to take care of it and the sacred vessels that were in it appoynted to be vsed about the service of God In later times also they flayed the Beasts appointed for the Sacrifices according to that in the second of Chronicles The service was prepared and the Priests stood in their places also the Leuites in their orders according to the Kings commaundement and they slue the Passeouer and the Priests sprinkled the bloud with their hands and the Leuites flayed them Of the singers we reade in the first of Chronicles how they were appoynted by Dauid to sing prophesies with Harpes with Viols and with Cymbals The Porters were appointed to see that no vncircumcised polluted or vncleane person should enter into the house of the Lord and to guard the same that all thinges therein might bee in safety as the sacred vessels the treasure of the house and the treasure of the dedicated things To these were added as assistants the Nethinims or Gibeonites who serued as hewers of wood and drawers of water The Scribes were such as read and interpreted the Law of God in the Temple at Hierusalem and in the Synagogues that were in other parts of the land and are also called Doctors of the Law that is Interpreters of the Law of God CHAP. 7. Of the Sects and factions in Religion found amongst the Iewes in later times ANd here because we haue made mention of such Leuites as were Scribes that is Doctors and Interpreters of the Law of God it is not out of place to speake of the doctrine of the Iewes in later times and the seuerall sects into which their teachers and guides were diuided Epiphanius sheweth that there were seauen principall sects amongst them the first whereof was that of the Scribes who were Interpreters of the Law but such as deliuered many traditions as from their Elders that were not contayned in the Law and sought to bring in a more exact kinde of worship of God then Moses and the Prophets taught consisting in many voluntary observations and customes deuised by men The second Sadduces which were of the race of the Samaritanes these had their name from one Sadoc a Priest they denyed the resurrection and beleeued not that there is any Angell or Spirit and consequently ouerthrew all Religion The third sort were Pharisees these were the strictest of all other and most esteemed they beleeued the resurrection of the dead that there are Angels and Spirits as the Scribes also did and that all shall come into judgement to receiue according to the things they doe in this body whether they be good or euill they much honoured virginity and single life they payed tithes of the smallest things they possessed they washed cups platters and all kinde of vessels they vsed they fasted twice euery weeke they brought in the doctrine of fatall necessity and differed in their habit from other men The fourth sort were the Hemerobaptists who did thinke that no man could bee saued if he were not washed euery day that so he might be cleansed from the impuritie of sinne but as Epiphanius rightly noteth in refutation of the errour of these men it is not the whole floud Iordan wherein Christ was baptized nor the sea nor any fountaine abounding with water that can wash away the impurity of sinne by any naturall force thereof or voluntarie vse but repentance and the vse of such sacred ceremonies and sacramentall elements as God appoynteth to signifie expresse and communicate vnto vs the vertue of Christ Iesus and the sanctifying grace of the Spirit of God Next vnto the Hemerobaptists were the Essenes These withdrew themselues from the society of other men They despised mariage and liued without the company of women hauing no children of their owne they adopted such as voluntarily came vnto them Quos vita fessos sayth Plinie ad mores eorum fortunae fluctus agitat Ita per saeculorum millia incredibile dictu gens aeterna est in quâ nemo nascitur tam faecunda illis aliorum vitae poenitentia est That is Such as wearied with the turmoils of this life were by the experience of fortunes vncertainties forced to like their retired manner of liuing so that for many ages which is a thing not credible there hath bin a neuer-failing nation in which no man is borne So many doth other mens dislike of their owne manner of liuing send vnto them These were something like the Monkes and Religious men that are and haue beene amongst Christians The sixt sorte were the Nazaraei who in all other things were Iewes but held it vnlawfull to kill any liuing thing or to eate the flesh of any thing wherein the Spirit of life had beene they condemned the bloody sacrifices prescribed in Moses law and therefore could not bee induced to thinke that Moses was author of those bookes that goe vnder his name yet did they honour Abraham Isaac and Iacob and other holy men mentioned in them The seauenth and last sort were the Herodians who were of the Iewes Religion in all other things but thought Herod to bee the Christ because the scepter departed from Iudah and the Law-giuer from betweene his feete when Herod who was a stranger obtayned the title and power of a king and ruled ouer the people of God These were the sects and Heresies that prevayled in the Church of the Iewes before the comming of Christ amongst whom the Pharisees and Sadduces were chiefe so that the whole state seemed to be
that place which the Lord hath chosen shew thee thou shalt obserue to doe according to all that they informe thee according to the Law which they shall teach thee and according to the iudgement which they shall tell thee shalt thou doe thou shalt not decline from the thing which they shall shew thee neither to the right hand nor to the left And that man that will doe presumptuously not hearkning to the Priest that standeth before the Lord thy God to minister there or vnto the Iudge that man shall die and thou shalt take away euill from Israel This was the highest Court amongst the Iewes from this there was no appeale and this Court some thinke to haue enjoyed so great and ample priviledges as that it could not erre and thereupon inferre that Popes in their Consistories cannot erre to whom Christ hath made as large promises of assistance and direction as euer he did to the high Priests and Rulers in the time of Moses Law That the Priests and Rulers in the time of the Law could not erre they indeavour to proue because he was to answer it with hisbloud whosoeuer disobeyed the sentence decree of those Iudges God required euery man without declining to the right hand or the left to doe that they commanded If it be objected that the words of Almighty God requiring all men so strictly to obey the sentence and decree of those Rulers are not to bee vnderstood concerning matters of faith but Causes Ciuill and Criminall and that therefore this place maketh not any proofe of the infallibilitie of their judgment in matters of faith it will bee answered that there is no reason to doubt of their judgment in matters of faith of whose right judgment in matters Ciuill and Criminall wee are assured Surely it is true that if those Iudges in the time of the Law could not erre in matters Ciuill and Criminall they were vndoubtedly much more freed from danger of erring in matters of faith but it is one of the strangest paradoxes as I thinke that euer yet was heard of that the Priests and Iudges in the time of the Law were priviledged from danger of erring in matters of fact and that they were so assisted in their proceedings as that they could not bee mis-led by any passions or sinister affections to pervert judgement and doe wrong For besides that it is refuted by sundry instances of sinister and wicked judgments passed by those Iudges against the Seruants and Prophets of Almighty God it maketh the Ministery and government vnder the Law incomparably more glorious and excellent then the Ministerie of the Gospell For it is by all confessed that the Popes and Councels may erre in things of this nature But that the Priests in the time of the Law did sometimes erre in judgment condemning them whō God would not haue had condemned appeareth evidently by that we read in the booke of the Prophesies of Ieremy where when Ieremy had made an end of speaking all that the Lord commanded him to speake then the Priests and the Prophets and al◅ the people took him and said Thou shalt dye the death And when the Princes of Iudah heard of these things they came vp from the Kings house into the house of the Lord sate down in the entry of the new gate of the Lords House Then spake the Priests the Prophets vnto the Princes to all the people saying This man is worthy to dye but the Princes said This man is not worthy to dye for he hath spoken vnto vs in the Name of the Lord our God Here we see the Priests erred and were resisted by the Princes of the Land but elsewhere we reade that the Princes also were angry with Ieremy smote him and layde him in prison in the house of Iehonathan the Scribe and saide unto the King Wee beseech thee let this man be put to death for he weakneth the hands of the men of war that are in the Citie and the hands of all the people So that both Priests and Princes might did sometimes erre in judgment But some man perhaps will say that howsoeuer they might erre in matters of fact yet they could not erre in any matter of substance pertaining to the worship seruice of God This also is clearely demonstrated to be false their errours in things pertaining to the worship and seruice of God proued by sundry examples In the second booke of Kings wee reade that Ahaz k◅ng of Iudah walked in the waies of the kings of Israel made his sonnes goe through the fire after the abominations of the heathen and offered burnt incense in the high places and on the hils and vnder euerie greene tree This wicked Ahaz sent from Damascus to Vrias the Priest the patterne of the Altar he saw at Damascus and the fashion of it and all the workemanship thereof and Vrias the Priest made an Altar in all points like to that which King Ahaz sent from Damascus So did Vrias the Priest before King Ahaz came from Damascus and the King commanded Vrias to offer sacrifice on the Altar and Vrias did whatsoeuer the King commanded him Yea we reade of many Priests especially about the time of the Maccabees that forsooke the law of God and followed the abominations of the heathen Idolaters and many Iudges and Kings likewise so that Dauid Hezekiah Iosias only excepted there was none of the Kings that did not decline more or lesse to Idolatry The meaning therefore of Almighty God according to the iudgment of the best Diuines was not that Priests and Iudges in the the time of the law should be obayed in all things without exception but when they commanded and iudged according to the diuine law and verity and in the same sort must wee vnderstand the words of Christ when he sayth The Scribes and Pharisees sit on the Chaire of Moses and commandeth the people to obserue and doe whatsoeuer they prescribe to be obserued and done For otherwise Christ should be contrary to himselfe who elsewhere willeth men to beware of the leauen of the Pharisees which S. Mathew interpreteth to bee their doctrine teacheth men by his own example to cōtemn their traditiōs Yea it is most certaine that the Pharisees erred dangerously and damnably in many things notwithstanding their sitting on Moses chaire and therefore Christ doth oftentimes sharpely reproue them for mis-interpreting the law of God Some man perhaps will say they taught lesse then is implied in the Law in that they condemned murther adultery and the like crimes but not lust hatred and such other sinister affections of the heart and that therefore Christ did not reproue them as teaching any thing contrary to the Law but as teaching lesse then is contained in it and comming short of it This euasion will not serue for it appeareth euidently that they did not only come
be present in Generall Councels and who they are of whom generall Councels do consist HAuing spoken of the necessity profit and vse of Generall Councels it remaineth that wee proceede to see who they are that may bee present in such Councels and of whom they do consist The persons that may be present are of diuerse sorts For some are there with authority to teach define prescribe and to direct others are there to heare set forward and consent vnto that which is there to be done In the former sort none but only Ministers of the word and sacraments are present in Councels and they onely haue deciding and defining voyces but in the latter sort * Lay-men also may be present whereupon we shall find that Bishops and Presbyters subscribe in this sort Ego N. definiens subscrips◅ that is I as hauing power to define and decree haue subscribed But the Emperour or any other Lay-person Ego N. consentiens subscripsi that is I as one giuing consent to that which is agreed on by the spirituall Pastors haue subscribed That the Emperor and other Lay-men of place and sort may be present in Generall Councels no man maketh doubt For though Pope Nicholas seeme to deny that the Emperours may be presēt in other Councels where matters of faith are not handled yet he cōfesseth they may be presēt in general Conncels where the faith which is cōmon to all pertaineth not to Clergy-men alone but to Lay-men and all Christians generally is treated of it being a rule in nature reason Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus tractari debere that is that that which concerneth all may be handled and medled with by all so farre forth as conueniently it may and as there is no manifest reason in respect of the disturbance and hinderance of the deliberation to repell them from such intermedling for in such cases there may bee a repelling of men hauing interest in such businesses and affaires and therefore Pulcheria the Empresse Commanded the Captaine of Bythinia with violence to driue out of the Councell of Chalcedon such Monkes Clerkes and Lay-men as being of no vse did but pester the Councell and to leaue none there but such as the Bishops brought with them But our aduersaries say the Protestants affirme that Lay-men ought not only to be present in generall Councels but also to haue decisiue yoyces as well as they of the Cleargy and thereupon charge vs with great absurdity Wherefore for the answering of this obiection wee must obserue that there is a threefold decision of things doubtfull and questionable The one such as euery one vpon the knowledge of it must yeeld vnto vpon perill of damnation vpon the bare word of him that decideth The second to which euery one must yeeld vpon like perill not vpon the bare word of him that decideth but vpon the euidence of proofe he bringeth The third such as euery one must yeeld vnto not vpon perill of damnation but of excommunication and the like censure Ecclesiasticall In the first sort the Protestants say that onely Christ the sonne of God hath a decisiue voyce In the second sort that any Lay-men as well as Clergy-men for whosoeuer it is that bringeth conuincing proofes decideth a doubt in such sort as that no man ought to resist against it Whereupon Panormitan sayth that the iudgment of one priuate man is to be preferred before the sentence of the Pope if hee haue better authorities of the Old and New Testament to confirme his iudgment And Gerson saith that any learned man may and ought to resist against a whole Councell if hee discerne it to erre of malice or ignorance and whatsoeuer Bishops determine their determinations binde not the conscience further then they approue that they propose some other way then by their authoritie onely Soe that in this sence the Protestants truely say that Bishoppes must not proceede Praetor-like but that all that they doe must bee but in the nature of an inquiry and their Decrees no farther of force then reason doth warrant them For howsoeuer the Son of God hath promised to be with his Church to the end of the world which shall bee fulfilled in respect of his elect and chosen who cannot erre damnably and finally yet hath he not tyed himselfe to any one sort or company of men neither is it certainely knowne but that all they that meete in a Councell may erre notwithstanding Christes promise To which purpose it is that Brentius and other say We cannot be certaine of the determination of Councells because euery company of men professing CHRIST is not the true Church seeing all that so professe are not Elect neither doe they deny all authority and iurisdiction to such as are not knowne to be Elect nor giue it all to such as no man canne knowe who they be as Bellarmine vntruly saith they doe for in the third sort they willingly acknowledge that Bishops haue deciding voyces power so to iudge of things as to subiect all those that shall thinke and teach otherwise then they doe to excommunication and censures of like nature And that therefore they are properly Iudges that their course of proceeding is not a bare Inquiry and search but a binding determination and that they haue a Pretorlike power to binde men to stand to that they propose decree and in this sort we all teach that Lay-men haue no voyce decisiue but Bishops Pastors onely which may be confirmed by many reasons First because when the question is in what pastures it is fitte the sheepe of CHRIST should feede in what pastures they may feede without danger the duty of consulting is principally and the power of prescribing wholy in the Pastours though the sheepe of CHRIST being reasonable haue and must haue a kinde of discerning whether they bee directed into wholesome pleasant pastures or not Secondly none but they whom Paul saith CHRIST going vp into heauen gaue for the gathering together of the Saintes for the worke of the Ministery haue authority to teach and to prescribe vnto others what they shall professe beleeue of whom the LORD said by Ieremy the Prophet I will giue you Pastors that shall feede you with knowledge and doctrine Thirdly because in all Councels Bishops Pastors onely are found to haue subscribed to the decrees made in them as defining decreeing howsoeuer other men testified their consent by subscription and Princes and Emperours by their royall authority confirmed the same and subiected the contemners and violaters thereof to imprisonment banishment confiscation of goods and the like ciuill punishments as the Bishops did to excommunication and censures Spirituall So that it is agreed on that Bishoppes and Ministers onely haue decisiue voyces in Councels in sort before expressed but the question is onely whether all Ministers of the Word and Sacraments haue such decisiue voyces or none but Bishops The Papists
M. Willet for generall and the Patriarches of the Apostolicke Sees there present with the Councell of Constance not of vnequall authoritie and the Councell of Trent that Protestancy in all points is false and Catholicke religion true It seemeth the good man is neere driuen and hath spent all his strength in this tedious discourse of Traditions and therefore in the conclusion hee taketh a strange course for insteed of prouing by the testimonies of protestants as hee vndertooke that Romish religion is true and Protestancy false hee asketh why hee may not say with the Councells of Florence Constance Trent that Protestants religion is false and the Romish profession true Touching the Councell of Trent it is of so great authority with vs that if hee had beene pleased to let vs know his name vrge his own authority we would as soone haue listned vnto him as to that Councell in any thing it hath defined touching the controuersies that are betweene vs and the Papists for wee knowe that howsoeuer there wanted not many learned and worthy men in that meeting that opposed themselues mainely against many thinges there questioned and in conclusion agreed vpon they were forced to giue way to the preuailing faction I will giue one example in steede of many touching the certaine knowledge each man hath of his owne estate whether he be in grace or not There was great opposition in that meeting many protesting that the authours of vncertainty would bring in a worse errour then any was imputed to Luther yet the conclusion passed against them though in some ambiguity of words and termes to giue them some contentment the like might be said touching the authority of the vulgar translation and sundry other things as it appeareth by the confession of their owne Diuines there present Wherefore to passe by that Councell and to come to the Councels of Florence and Constance I maruaile that this man dareth say they are of equall authority whereas Cardinall Bellarmine reckoneth the Florentine Councell amongst those that are absolutely approued and that of Constance amongst those that are partly approued and partly reiected in which number he doth likewise account the Councell of Basil. But it may bee hee is of the faction of the French who deny the Councell of Florence to be generall who neither would come to it when it was holden nor receiue the decrees of it when it was concluded It is true indeede that many Bishoppes of the Orientall and Greeke Churches were there and many of them consented with the Latines in hope of helpe from them against their barbarous and cruell enemies so that it may carry some shew of a generall Councell but the Patriarch of Constantinople was dead before the conclusion Some protested against the vnion there agreed on the churches of the East would not admit it as being concluded by their Bishops that were there without commission from thē therefore do not account it a lawfull free generall councell But saith he the Patriarches of the Apostolicke Sees of Alexandria and Antioche were present with the Bishop of Rome and subscribed to the decrees and conclusions of that Councell therefore it must be accounted generall The antecedent of this argument is most false vntrue for the Patriarches of the Apostolicke Sees were not there in person but others supplyed their places neither can hee say it was all one as if they had beene personally present seeing what their Vicegerents did in their names in all likelihood they would haue done if they had bin present when themselues confesse that the acts of the Popes Legate are not of binding force vnlesse he ratifie them for that sometimes as in the deposition of Ignatius setting vp of Photius they may go against his instructions This I doe the rather insist vpon for that the vnion agreed on in this Councell and consented vnto by these Vicegerents was disliked by the Bishops that remained at home and so could be of no force they that were sent hauing no commission to discusse or determine any other points of difference but that touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost and yet adventuring of themselues to define and determine some other very important controversies But to let this passe these two Councels of Florence and Constance are ill matched by this Author For they agree no better together then fire and water the one of them defining that the Pope is head of the whole vniuersall Church and the other making him onely head ouer particular churches but subiect to the whole vniuersall church and a generall councell representing the same Whereupon Caietane denyeth it to be a generall Councell and others say it was a generall Councell but partly approued and partly reiected And doubtlesse howsoeuer this Author make shew to the contrary yet he knoweth right well that this Councell did more advantage our cause and shake the Papacy in making the Popes as men subiect to errour and vile disorders inferiour to generall Councels then it helpeth them or hurteth vs by disliking and condemning some positions of Wickliffe partially and corruptly gathered out of his writings by his adversaries and taken in the worst sense which were so vttered by him as being rightly vnderstood might haue a good and Catholique meaning as Gerson testifieth And therefore if it were granted that it was a lawfull generall Councell yet it followeth not that I must acknowledge Romish religion to be true in all points seeing it is pronounced false by this Councell in the chiefest and most principall of all other which is touching the supreame commaunding power of the Pope ouer the whole vniuersall church his infallible iudgment from which no man may appeale But such is my infelicitie that I must be forced to acknowledge that Romish Religion is true in all points though this councell define the contrary His words are This of necessity Doctor Field with his protestants must acknowledge or freely by their recited doctrine confesse that there neither is nor can be hereafter by his rules any true and certaine Scripture tradition or religion in the world A hard case and ill choyce if wee must needesrunne into one of these extremities either to acknowledge that our whole religion is false or that there is no certaine Scripture tradition or religion in the world But though the Sea be before vs and Pharaoh and the Aegyptians behind vs yet I hope wee shall neither fall into the hands of the one nor bee swallowed vp of the gulfes of the other Let vs see therefore whether our danger be so great as hee would make vs beleeue If saith he we neither haue Scripture exposition of the difficulties of it nor tradition but by tradition as Doctor Field hath granted and those onely three rules to know them if those rules may propose vnto vs false Scripture false expositions of their obscurities and false traditions in matters of faith faith cannot be certaine the religion
to posterities This may rightly be named a tradition not as if we were to beleeue any thing without the warrant and authority of the Scripture but for that wee neede a plaine and distinct explication of many things which are somewhat obscurely contayned in the Scripture which being explicated the Scriptures which otherwise we should not so easily haue vnderstood yeeld vs satisfaction that they are so indeede as the Church deliuereth them vnto vs. The fourth kind of tradition is the continued practise of such things as neither are contayned in the Scripture expressely nor the examples of such practise expressely there deliuered though the grounds reasons and causes of the necessity of such practise be there contayned and the benefit or good that followeth of it Of this sort is the Baptisme of Infantes which is therefore named a tradition because it is not expressely deliuered in Scripture That the Apostles did baptize infants nor any expresse precept there found that they should so doe Yet is not this so receiued by bare and naked tradition but that wee find the Scripture to deliuer vnto vs the grounds of it The fift kind of traditions comprehendeth such observations as in particular are not commanded in Scripture nor the necessity of them from thence concluded though in generall without limitation of times and other circumstances such things be there commanded Of this sort many thinke the observation of the lent fast to be the fast of the fourth and the sixt dayes of the weeke and some other That the Apostles deliuered by liuely voyce many obseruations dispensable and alterable according to the circumstances of times and persons we make no question Onely this we say that they are confounded with Ecclesiasticall traditions so that which they are doth hardly appeare and that they doe not necessarily binde posterities The custome of standing at prayer on the Lords day and betweene Easter and Whitsontinde was generally receiued as deliuered by Apostolique tradition and when some beganne to breake it is was confirmed by the Councell of Nice yet is it not thought necessary to be obserued in our time Out of this which hath beene sayd wee may easily resolue what is to bee thought touching traditions For first the Canon of scripture being admitted as deliuered by Tradition though the diuine truth of it be in it selfe cleare and euident vnto vs not depending of the Churches authority there is noe matter of faith deliuered by bare and onely tradition as the Romanists seeme to Imagine Yea this is so cleare that therein they contrary themselues indeauouring to proue by scripture the same things they pretend to hold by tradition as wee shall finde if wee run through the things questioned betweene them and vs. The onely cleare instance they seeme to giue is touching the perpetuall virginity of Mary which they say cannot be proued by scripture and yet is necessary to be beleeued But they should know that this is no point of Christian faith That shee was a Virgin before in and after the birth of Christ wee are bound to beleeue as an article of our faith and so much is deliuered in scripture and in the Apostles Creede but that shee continued so euer after is a seemely truth deliuered vnto vs by the Church of God fitting the sanctity of the blessed Virgin and the honour due to soe sanctified a vessell of Christs incarnation as her body was and soe is de pietate but not de necessitate fidei as the Schoole-men vse to speake Neither was Heluidius condemned of Heresie for the deniall hereof but because pertinaciously hee vrged the deniall of it vpon misconstruction of scripture as if the deniall of it had beene a matter of faith Touching this Allegation of our Aduersaries concerning Maries perpetuall Virginity wee must know that howsoeuer they pretend to hold it onely by tradition yet the Fathers that defend it against Heluidius endeauour to proue it by the Scripture Their instance of Childrens Baptisme is most apparantly against themselues for they confesse it may be proued by scripture Bellarmine proueth it by three reasons taken from the scripture The first is from the proportion betweene Baptisme and Circumcision the Circumcision of Children then and the Baptisme of them now This argument he saith as they propose it cannot be auoyded The second from these two places Iohn 3. Except a man be borne a new of water and of the spirit hee cannot enter into the kingdome of Heauen And that other Suffer little children to come vnto mee for vnto such belongeth the Kingdome of Heauen This Argument he sayth is strong effectuall and pregnant to proue the necessity of the Baptisme of Infants The third is taken from the Baptizing of whole families by the Apostles in which by all likelihood there were infants Surely in this point of traditions our aduersaries bewray their great folly inconstancie making it euident to the whole world they know not what they say Bellarmine sayth that many things touching the matter and forme of sacraments are holden by tradition as not being contained in scripture and yet in the particulars there is nothing defined in the Church of Rome touching these things which he indeauoureth not to proue by scripture Some alleage for proofe of tradition the consubstantiality of the sonne of God with the Father and the proceeding of the holy Ghost from them both Others constantly affirme that these things are proued by scripture Some of them say Pugatory is holden by tradition others thinke it may bee proued by scripture g Melchior Canus endeauouring to proue the necessity of traditions produceth sundry things as not written as inuocation of Saints worshipping of images the Priests consecrating and partaking in both parts of the sacrament That ordination and confirmation are to bee conferred and giuen but onely once which when hee hath alleaged hee dareth not say the scripture doth not deliuer them for feare of gainesaying the truth in some of them and his owne fellowes in other And therefore hee sayth These things perhaps the scripture hath not deliuered For Bellarmine thinketh the Scripture doeth strongly proue the Invocation and worship of Saints and Angels and who is so impudent to deny that the Ministers of the Church are bound by the commaundement of Christ contayned in the Scripture to consecrate and participate in both parts of the Sacrament That confirmation and ordination once conferred are not to be reiterated may be concluded out of the nature of them described vnto vs in the Scripture So that for matters of faith wee may conclude according to the judgement of the best and most learned of our adversaries themselues that there is nothing to be beleeued which is not either expressely contayned in Scripture or at least by necessary consequence from thence and other things evident in the light of nature or in the matter of fact to bee concluded That there were many speeches and diuine sayings of our
seeing there are alwaies some right-beleeuers but a right iudgment of men by their power of iurisdiction maintaining truth suppressing error may be wanting Nay that somtimes there was no such iudgmēt in the Church it is most euident For Vincentius Lyrinensis sayth the Arian heresie infected not some part onely but almost the whole Christian world soe that almost all the Bishoppes of the Latine Church were misled by force or fraud Yea Athanasius and Hierome report that Liberius Bishoppe of ROME was carryed away in that tempestuous whirlewinde and subscribed to heresie soe that there was noe sette Tribunall on earth in those dayes to the determinations whereof it was safe to stand §. 2. IN the next place the Treatiler chargeth Mee that whereas Luther defendeth that infants in Baptisme actually beleeue I endeauour to wrest his words to habituall faith which sence he sayth Luthers discourses will not admit and for proofe hereof referreth the reader to certaine places in Luther and to the positions of his followers but as Festus sayd vnto Paul thou hast appealed to Caesar to Caesar shalt thou goe so seeing this Treatiser referreth the Reader to Luthers discourses and the doctrine of his Disciples to these I will send him which will turne greatly to the Treatisers disaduantage For the reader cannot but finde by Luthers discourses and the doctrine of his Schollers that I haue rightly deliuered his opinion to bee that infants are filled with habituall fayth when they are regenerate and not that they haue any such acts of faith or knowledge of God as men of yeares haue Let vs therefore heare what Luther himselfe will say some men saith hee will obiect against that which I haue said touching the necessity of faith in such as are to receiue the Sacramērs with profit that infants haue no faith nor apprehension of Gods mercies that therefore either faith is not so necessarily required to the due receiuing of the sacramēt or that infants are Baptised in vaine Here I say that which all say that other mens faith euen the faith of such as present thē to Baptisme steedeth litle children For as the word of God is mightie when the sound therof is heard euen to the changing of the heart of a wicked man which is no lesse vnapt to heare the voyce of God to listen vnto it thē any litle babe so by the prayer of the Church which out of faith to which all thinges are possible presenteth it to baptisme the child is changed cleansed and renued by the infusion of faith or by faith which is infused and powred into it Thus doth Luther expresse his owne meaning touching this poynt Now let vs heare what his followers will say It was agreed vpon saith Chemnitius amongst the followers of Luther that when we say infants beleeue or haue faith wee must not imagine that they do vnderstand or feele the motions of faith But their errour is rejected who suppose that infants baptized please God and are saued without any operation or working of the holy spirit in them whereas Christ pronounceth that vnlesse a man bee borne a new of water and of the spirit hee cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen So that this is all that Luther and the rest meant that children cannot be made partakers of those benefits that God offereth to men in Baptisme nor inherit eternall life by vertue of the faith of the Church without some change wrought in them by the spirit fitting them to be joyned to God which change or alteration in them they call faith not meaning to attribute vnto them an actuall apprehension of Gods mercies for they constantly deny that they feele any such motions of faith but a kinde of habituall faith onely there being nothing in faith but such an act of beleeuing as they deny or the seede roote and habit whence actual motions in due time do flow With whom Calvine agreeth for whereas the Anabaptists obiect against him defending that infants are capable of regeneration that the Scripture mentioneth no regeneration but by the incorruptible seed of the word of God which infants cannot heare he answereth that God by his diuine power may renue and change them by some other meanes Secondly hee addeth that it is not absurde to thinke that God doth shine into the hearts of those infants which in infancie hee calleth out of this world to himselfe and that hee doth make himselfe knowne vnto them in some sorte seeing they are presently after to be receiued and admitted to the cleare and open view and sight of his glorious face and countenance and yet saith he will not rashly affirme that they are indued with the same faith which wee finde in our selues or that they haue knowledge like vnto that of faith And in the next section speaking more generally and not restraining himselfe to such as die in infancy hee saith that they are Baptized into future repentance and faith which vertues though they bee not presently formed in them yet a seede of either of them lieth hid in them The Papists are distracted into contrary opinions touching this point For some thinke that grace the roote of faith and other vertues is infused into children in Baptisme but not faith other that not onely grace but the habit of faith hope and charity is powred into them likewise which opinion as more probable was admitted in the Councell of Vienna and is embraced by vs as true Wherefore let the Reader judge whether I haue wrested the words of Luther or the Treatiser wronged Mee SECT 3. IN the third place hee laboureth to demonstrate and proue that there is a contradiction betweene the reuerend Bishop of Lincolne and Doctour Morton my selfe touching the power of ordination which that learned Bishoppe appropriateth vnto Bishops and we communicate in some cases to Presbyters But this silly obiection is easily answered for his meaning is that none but Bishoppes regularly may ordaine which we confesse to be true as likewise none but they onely may confirme the baptized by imposition of hands and yet thinke that in case of necessity Presbyters may performe both these things though of ordinary right belonging to Bishops only Part. 1. Sect. 1. LEt vs passe therefore from the preface to the booke it selfe the first thing that he objecteth in the booke it selfe is that I giue Apostolicke power to the present Church whence he thinketh it may be inferred that the Church cannot erre in matters of faith or ceremonies That I giue Apostolique power to the present church he endeavoureth to proue because I say She hath authority to dispense with some constitutions of the Apostles touching order and comelinesse which he thinketh She might not doe if she had not the same Authority by force whereof they were made but he could not but know that this proofe is too weake if he were not very weake in vnderstanding For the Apostles made these constitutions
not precisely in that they were Apostles as they reported the precepts of CHRIST deliuered the Doctrine of faith but by vertue of their pastorall power in generall common to them with other Pastors of the Church though in that they were no ordinarie Pastors but Apostles they had absolute infallibilitie could make no lawes or constitutions but good profitable in which respect no other are equall to them So that the Pastors of the Church now haue that power by which the Apostles made their Ecclesiasticall constitutions touching order comelinesse but not with like assurance of not erring in making or reversing such lawes therefore the Treatiser cannot from hence inferre that the present Church the guides of it haue infallible iudgement touching matters of faith or ceremonies §. 2 IN the next place first he produceth my distinction of the Church considered as it comprehendeth all the faithfull that are haue beene since Christ appeared in the flesh or onelie such as are haue beene since the Apostles times or such alone as are at one time in the world Secondly an assertion that the present Church may be said at all times to be the pillar of truth not to erre because it euer retaineth a sauing profession of heauenlie truth that is true doctrine concerning all such principall points as are of the substance of Faith and needfull to bee knowne and beleeued expresly by euery man Thirdly he addeth that we deny so much as the virtuall beleefe of other things to be necessary which he pronounceth to be an absurd opinion For the confutation of my distinction of the Church considered in those three different sorts hee asketh if there be now presently any Church in the world including in it all the faithfull that are and haue beene since CHRIST appeared in the flesh or at least since the Apostles times which is a most childish senselesse demaund For it will easily bee answered that the Church that includeth in it all these faithfull ones is now extant in the world as he is pleased to speake in that some of her parts betweene which and the rest there is a connexion are now in the world though all be not as time whereof the parts are present past to come is now though all parts of it be not now But his inference vpon supposall of our answer is more strange then the question For if it bee granted that the Church including in it all these holy ones hath not all her parts in the world at one time he inferreth from thence that the promises of Christ cannot be verified of it As if Christs promises were verified of the church only in respect of those parts that it hath in the world at one time whereas Bellarmine himself teacheth that the promise of the churches being in all parts of the world is not verified of it at one time but successiuely in that though it be not in all parts Provinces of the world at one time yet at one time or other it spreadeth it selfe into euery part of it And Stapleton defineth the church according to the state of the New Testament to be a collectiue multitude of men professing the name of Christ beginning at Hierusalem frō thence dispersed throughout the world increasing spreading it self through all nations alwaies visible manifest mixt of good bad elect reprobate in respect of faith Sacraments holy in respect of origin successiō Apostolique in extent catholique in cōnexion order of parts one in duratiō continuance perpetuall expressing vnto vs that church that includeth all faithful ones since Christ till now nay till the end of the world Which is no doubt a reall body hath many excellent promises made vnto it though all the parts of it be not in the world at one time But let vs goe forward and wee shall see how this silly Treatiser forgetteth himselfe For first hee confesseth that the diuerse considerations of the church proposed by mee may bee in our vnderstanding and yet presently addeth that wee cannot distinguish them really one from another which hee goeth about to proue because the Church in the first consideration includeth in it the same Church as it is taken in the second and third but the proofe is to weake for euery child will tell him that these considerations may be really distinguished one from another because though the former includeth the latter yet the latter includeth not the former For as euery man is a liuing thing but euery liuing thing is not a man soe the Church consisting of all faithfull ones that are and haue beene since Christ appeared in the flesh includeth in it all those that now presently are in the world but the Church consisting of those onely that are at one time includeth not the other but is included in it as a part in the whole and consequently cannot challenge all the priuiledges belonging to it more then the part of a thing may challenge all that pertaineth to the whole soe that the Church in the former consideration may bee free from error though not in the latter But the Treatiser will proue it cannot seeing if the Church including in it all faithfull ones that are or haue beene since Christ be free from error euery part of it must be free and consequently the present Church as a man cannot be sayd to bee free from sicknesse vnlesse euery part of him be free For answere where-vnto wee say that the Church being a collectiue body may be sayd to be free from error in another sort then a man is said to be free from sicknesse for a man cannot be sayd to be free from sicknesse vnlesse euery part be free but the Church may rightly be sayd to be free from error if all her parts erre not though some doe for otherwise I would aske of this Treatiser whether the Church were free frō error in the daies of Athanasius when as Vincentius Lyrinensis sayth almost all the Bishops of the Latine Church were misled by force or fraud and when Liberius Bishop of Rome subscribed to heresie as Athanasius and Hierome testifie If the Church were not free from errour at that time where is the priuiledge of neuer erring If it were it was but in respect of some few partes whence it will follow that the Church may be sayd to bee free from errour though many partes bee not if any continue sound for here the greater and more principall partes did erre But that the Church may be sayd to be free from errour though all parts be not it is euident in that they who most stifly maintaine the not erring of the present Church yet confesse that some parts of it do erre For Stapleton and Bellarmine who both thinke the present Roman Church to be free from error yet deny that she is free in all her parts and tell vs there are some who are