one or more branches be broken off The fountain flows comfortably though a rivulet be cut off The reason is because (m) Jer. 2.13 Christ and no particular Church is the fountain of living waters (n) 8. Jo. 4.14 that spring up into everlasting life and they that seek to him for this water as they ought shall be sure to have it Or as St. Cyprian speaks the Church is (o) Cypr. de unit Eccles luce Domini perfusa she hath her light not from Rome but from (p) S. Jo. 1.9 that true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world And we shall be no longer (q) S. Mat. 5.14 the light of the world then we are furnished with this light 23. So then since you will needs have it so the time was when there was a necessity for the Catholick Church not onely to be distinct but diverse from the Church of Rome and those in her communion otherwise there had been no Church I shall give you a satisfactory instance When Liberius Bishop of Rome turned Arian to recover liberty and an honorable Bishoprick when all Italy and Spain sided with him in that heresie then was the Catholick distinct from Rome and those in her communion For these if we may beleive (r) Haeretici non pertinent ad Ecclesiam Catholicam Aug. Locut de Deut. l. 5. c. 10. St. Austin and (s) Si Haeretici sunt Christiani esse non possunt Tertul. de Praescript c. 37. Tertullian had no share in the Church they were not so much as Christians because Hereticks St. Hilary of Poictieurs lamented the infamous lapse of this Bishop professing publickly thus (t) Hilar. Pict de Synodis p. 287. Ex eo intra nos tantum communio Dominica continetur from that time forward the Lords communion is continued AMONG US ONELY Onely us And who are these that he clears suddenly after in these words (u) Ib. p. 288. Quidam ex vobis firmissima fidei constantia INTRA COMMUNIONEM SE MEAM CONTINENTES SEACAETERIS EXTRA GALLIAS ABSTINUERUNT Some of you with a most firm constancy of faith containing themselves within my communion abstained from others without France Here then was no communion with Rome unlesse you can prove Rome to be in France and yet I hope a Catholick communion Boast not then too much of the Romane Church Wee see in what state it hath been and into the same state without Gods great mercy it may fall again And when such cause is given it shall be lawfull for us in like manner to hold communion within our selves in the three Britains even in England onely And now I think I have shewed you the Catholick Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion such a one as would have nothing to doe with Rome while Hereticall 24. I have done with the Propositions your desire remaines which requires a large library and a younger man for your words are these Wherefore I desire to be shewn the Catholick Church distinct from the Church of Rome and those in her communion for the last 1100 years What will no lesse serve the turn then 1100 years and those together what 's the meaning of this I never undertook any such thing neither as I know hath this Church or any of the Fathers thereof said any such thing (x) Art 19. Our Articles acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Church and call her so But withall we say that (y) Ib. those of her communion have erred not onely in their living and manner of ceremonies but also in matters of faith And this hath been prettily well proved out of your own men So a Church it is though erronious We have never declared her to be no Church neither have our Articles hitherto charged her with Heresie but (z) Art 22. with fond doctrines vainly invented and founded upon no warranty of Scripture Yea something we blame you with (a) Art 29. that is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture Foure opinions of this kind my Lord of Canterbury taxeth you with viz. (b) Archbishop Lawd §. 33. n. 13 1. Transubstantiation 2. The administration of the blessed Sacrament to the Laity in one kind 3. Invocation of Saints and 4. Adoration of Images Ye have not hitherto quitted your selves of this Inditement and while his book stands unconfuted I shall beleeve that ye are justly charged with these unsound and uncatholick doctrines 25. Besides we acknowledge that (c) Art 26. in the visible Church the evill be ever mingled with the good That sometime the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the Word and Sacraments These we deny not to be visible members of the Church but grant that (d) Ib. the effect of Christs Ordinance is not taken away by their wickednesse Though these be bad in and to themselves oft-times their calling does good to others like (e) S. Mat. 23.2 c. the Scribes and Pharisees in Moses chaire We are not then so forward to make a separation as ye are taught to beleeve Indeed hardly any but the Church of Rome hath been so touchy as to excommunicate whole Churches upon slight occasions (f) Euseb hist l. 5. c. 24. What a stir did Bishop Victor keep about the observation of Easter He excommunicated divers Churches because they would not stoop to his lure (g) Ib. Verum ista caeteris omnibus parum placebant but this was little pleasing to the rest of the Bishops and among them to that famous Bishop of Lyons Ireneus Who with divers other (h) Victorem graviùs acerbiùs coarguebant Ib. sharply checked and reproved him for it These consider'd that no member can cut off another without mischief to the whole body even to it self And the hand ought not to doe it without a commission from the head For (i) Neque quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporū constituit aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitaiem collegas suos adegit Cypr. in Conc. Cart. ag there is no Bishop of Bishops as ye conceive neither may any one Bishop excommunicate another of his own proper authority (k) Apost Can. 34. Cod. Eccles Vnivers Can. 88. This is the work of a Synod of Bishops Whoever does it of his own head offends against the practise of the Church the Canons and Scripture it self 26. Thus also (l) Euseb hist l. 7. c. 4. Bishop Steven though otherwise a good man carried himself very high about re-baptizing Hereticks Whether zeal or that vain conceit of St. Peter's Chair transported him I know not but this I am sure of he excommunicated all those that re-baptized Hereticks But what said that great Bishop of Cappadocia Firmilianus (m) Firmilian apud Cyp. ep 75. Teipsum excidisti noli te fallere mistake not thy self thou Bishop of Rome while thou goest about to cast out others by this
Temptation not from Religion 10. Thus we are Catholicks and our Church will prove so too We beleeve the holy Catholick Church we professe it is but one (q) Cypr. l. 4. ep 2. A Christo una as St. Cyprian speaks but one of Christs making though divided through all Nations into many members per totum mundum in multa membra divisa (r) Item Episcopatus unus Episcoporum multorum concordi numerositare diffusus Ib. So the Episcopacy is but one under that great (s) 1. S. Pet. 2.25 Bishop of our soules but it is diffused by the numerous consent of many Bishops One Church and one Bishoâ—rick and yet many Bishopricks which are called Churches and (t) Concil Nic. Diatyp 2. every Bishop is head as it were of that Communion or Church which is committed to his charge (u) Tertull. de Praescrip c. 20. These many Churches small or great una est illa ab Apostolis prima ex qua omnes are that one first Apostolicall Church of whom come all (x) Sic omnes primae omnes Apostolicae dum omnes unam probant unitatem Ib. Thus they are all prime all Apostolick while they all approve one unity (y) Ib. c. 32. This unity is by Tertullian placed in Faith and Episcopall succession Hitherto then we are right for those Churches that have this faith and this successive government (z) Ib. non minus Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae are equally Apostolick with those very Churches which were planted by the Apostles And in the Councel of Ephesus the appeal is not to the Bishop or Church of Rome for tryall of doctrine but to the (a) Vincent Lirin c. 42. consent of the most famous Catholick Bishops that were before them If Rome be judge the work is short we shall quickly have one Religion setled good or bad But the old rule is this (b) Ib. c. 3. Quod ubique quod semper quod ab omnibus that which hath been beleived in all places at all times by all the Fathers that is truly Catholick and nothing else for ought I know 11. This fully manifests that this Nationall Church is as much Catholick and Apostolick as can be desired And yet I cannot expect that this should work upon you who are obstinately prepossessed against all satisfaction I remember A.C. was not ashamed to publish in print (c) A.C. p. 54. that the Lady whom the two Bishops conferred with did not aske the Question as if she meant to be satisfied with hearing what either of them said And was it not is it not so with you Simon Magus will be the old man say St. Peter what he may And (d) 2. Tim. 3.8 as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so will your corrupt faction resist the truth come what can 12. But you have reason for what you say and this it is (e) n. 3. Because although I said the Church of Rome was a member of the Catholick yet the 19. Article of our Church sayes that the visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly administred according to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same What is here to displease you Is not all true Refute it if you can deny it if you have the face (f) Ib. But in divers other Articles our Church condemnes the Church of Rome for not preaching the pure Word of God And that 's it that offends you Sir we undertake not to judge your Church but her doctrine we condemne her errors and yet acknowledge her to be a Church (g) Apoc. 2.13 God blames the Church of Pergamos for enduring the seat of Satan within her Diocese as also (h) Ib. v. 15. for holding that odious doctrine of the Nicolaitans and yet grants her to be a Church such a one as it was St. Paul calls the Corinthians (i) 1 Cor. 1.2 a Church but (k) Ib. v. 11. c. 3. he blames their schismes (l) Ib. c. 5. their carnality (m) Ib. c. 11. their disorders in the Church (n) Ib v. 20 c. their prophaning of the Lords Supper and (o) Ib. c. 15.12 charges them with the heresie of the Sadduces Your errors were crept in among us and shall not we dare to call them errors and to teach our Country-men to avoyd them Foure of these that B. Martyr hath charged you with and proves them to be blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits as I acquainted you § 24. You read and turn over and take no notice of what you read This 't is to be led by other mens eyes and to see no further then your new Masters will give you leave 13. Justly we taxe you Art 30. for maiming the blessed Eucharist and for denying the Cup or Blood of the Lord to Lay men As if our Saviour had not shed it for them as much as for us and had not given it to them as well as to us What is the meaning then of these words (p) St. Mat. 26.27 Drink ye all of this or did not the Church of Christ understand what they did when they gave it to Priest and People And how can I communicate with them that will not suffer me to communicate with Christ according to his own Ordinance who deny me that which Christ hath commanded me to take In denying me the Cup ye admit me by halves in truth ye forbid me the Lords Table I withdraw not my selfe I have proved § 11. that in the judgement of the Catholick Church this Sacrament is to be administred to the Laity in both kinds I shall adde therefore with you that (q) n. 4. the Church of Rome doth neither preach the pure Word of God nor duly administer the Sacraments in those things that are of necessity requisite for the same This appears by our departure or as you name it our separation not from you but from your errors As you are a Church we communicate with you wherein ye are erronious we depart from you And in this we relie not upon our owne judgement but (r) In ipsa vetustate omnium vel certè penè omnium Sacerdotum pariâ—er Magistrorum definitiones sententiasque sectamur Vincent Lirin c. 3. submit to the generall resolution of the ancient Fathers The Jews at Gods command (s) Lev. 13.46 separated the leprous from the sound the clean from the unclean and so doe we Though (t) Num. 12.14 Miriam were Moses owne Sister yet did he withdraw himselfe and the whole Congregation from her while leprous But when she was healed of her foule disease both he and the rest communicated with her Cast off your leprous errors and we are for your communion 14. And whereas you adde that (u) n. 4. Archbishop Lawd says it is not lawfull to make
according to your charge I did say that the Romane Church had grievously erred and in one fundamentall at least yet as then so now I am have been and ever shall be loath to deny her to be a true Church since without the Church no salvation If you will make her no Church or a false Church and put your selves out of all hope I can pity you but not help it Indeed the pride of that See is such she will be all or nothing either the Catholick or no Church It is not therefore to her content to yeild her to be a Church since that implyes no more then that she is a member of the whole Alas the Universall she cannot be (z) Sicut universa terra ex multis terris unviversa Ecclesia ex multis constat Ecclesiis Aug. de Civ Dei l. 13. c. 13. that consists of many Churches as the whole earth consists of many lands and countreys and yet but one Earth and one Church Neither of them is couped up or confined within the largest Continent For my part I professe with St. Austin that (a) Aug. contr Crescon Gram. l 3. c. 35. I am in that Church cujus membra sunt omnes illae Ecclesiae quas ex laboribus Apostolorum natas atque firmatas simul in literis canonicis novimus the members whereof are all those Churches which in Scripture we know to have been planted and confirmed by the Apostles industry And (b) Earum communionem quantum me adjuvat Dominus sive in Aphricâ sive ubicunque non deseram Ib. their communion with Gods assistance I shall never forsake whether in England or elsewhere unlesse these forsake the truth I shall never leave the Vniversall to side with any particular Church And I would advise your Masters to take heed lest while with the Dogge in the Fable they catch at too much they lose all 15. (c) Cyprian de unit Eccles The Church according to St. Cyprian is like a Tree whose boughs are many but the body one firmly rooted Ab arbore frange ramum fructus germinare non poterit break the best arme from this body it will bear no fruit for heaven the branch it self will wither and rot and come to nothing Hath that Church you speak of been heretofore a glorious and happy Church Glory not too much in that (d) Ro. 11.18 boast not over the rest of the branches that have been lesse successefull thou bearest not the root but the root thee thou art but graffed in as the rest were and (e) Ib. v. 17. with them thou partakest of the root and fatnesse of the olive tree Remember also though there be many branches yet there is but one originall one root that yeelds sap and life and fruit to every bough great or small Suppose thou be the top-bough yet rend not suffer not thy selfe to be rent from this body Take heed of this lest thou become fewell for that dreadfull fire 16. That the Church of Rome hath grievously and dangerously erred I need no witnesses but your own family Stapleton justifies that (f) Stapleton Relect. cont 1. q. 5. A. 3. there is scarce any sin that can be thought by man Heresie onely excepted with which that See hath not been foully stained especially from the 800 years after Christ. But (g) Stella in luc 22.31 Stella and (h) Almain l. 3. D. 24. q. 1. Almain grant freely that some of the Bishops of Rome did fall into heresie and so ceased to be heads of the Church And though some of that Churches errors at this day be dangerous to salvation yet (i) Archbishop Lawd §. 20. n. 23. that judicious Bishop I then spake of would not venture to set down what errors in doctrine may give just cause of separation in this body or the parts of it one from another Neither shall I by Gods grace be over-bold in this point 17. The points fundamentall are contained in the Creed which is as the Councell of Trent speaks (k) Concil Trid. Sess 3. Et fundamentum firmum unicum not the firm alone but the onely foundation And Bellarmine resolves that (l) Bellar. de Verb. Dei non Scrip. l. 4. c. 11. All things simply necessary for all mens salvation are expressed in the Creed and Deealogue If yee have erred in any of these and grown obstinate in this error yee are become an Hereticall Church in battering the foundation And yet we must take notice that (m) Archbish Lawd § 11. n 1. every thing fundamentall is not of a like neernesse to the foundation nor of equall primenesse in the faith For there are (n) The. 2 a. 2 ◠q. 1. Art 7. c. quaedam prima credibilia certain prime principles of faith in the bosome whereof all other Articles lie wrapped and folded up What ever Church denies or disbeleives any of these ceaseth to be not onely Orthodox but Catholick and so no member of the true Church since (o) 1. S. Jo. 4.3 every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God but is that spirit of Antichrist Now if yee have at any time denied (p) Ib. c. 5.20 this Jesus Christ to be the true God and eternall life ye were at that time no Church but an Antichristian Synagogue But this did Marcellinus and Liberius and John 22. all Bishops of Rome In those times therefore yee were no Church but an Antichristian Synagogue (q) Cypr. Pomp. Haeresis enim Christi Sponsa non est since Heresie is not the Spouse of Christ 18. If you doubt of the Minor Stella makes that good for he testifies that (r) Stella in luc 22.31 Marcellinus sacrificed to Idols that Liberius assented to the Arians that is he denyed our Saviour to be of one and the same substance with the Father and that John 22. affirmed that God the Son is greater then the Father and the Holy Ghost These batter and undermine the foundation which what ever Congregation does it apostatizeth and is no Church While then Rome did and beleeved thus neither she nor any of those that communicated with her in these or any of these heresies (s) Nulla societas fidei perfidiae potest esse Qui cum Christo non est adversarius Christi est Cypr. l. 1. ep 3. were so much as a Church much lesse the Catholick Church Especially since all these are contrary to the Creed and Catholick faith (t) Athan. Cre. which faith except every one doe keep whole and undefiled without doubt he shall perish everlastingly This Creed our Church appeals to whether Catholick or not Catholick this is the faith she desires to be saved by He that faithfully beleives this Creed is a Catholick but he that beleives it not is no Catholick neither can he be saved I am one of Athanasius his Catholicks and with Gods blessing I shall live and
own men § 3. Thus that Church hath grievously erred and in more then one fundamentall And yet the Catholick hath been alwayes visible though oft-times invisible at Rome unlesse errors and heresies prove Catholick because professed at Rome 5. All this your Tutors reply not to nor hardly take notice of but have directed you to fall from your former desires upon new questions tempting me as the Pharisees did our Saviour but resolving to receive no answer Thus you put me to more trouble not with a mind to be satisfied but meerly to cavill and to slide over those arguments and testimonies which they are not able to answer or disprove Is not this to speak nothing lest you should seem to be silent Are these things which I have delivered true or false If true (k) A quâ—cunque verum dicitur illo inspirante dicitur qui ipse veritas est Aug. ep 28. let truth prevaile If false disprove them if impertinent manifest it Otherwise if you thus seek evasions you will enforce me to acquaint the world with your shifts and shufflings by publishing these papers that every eye may discern what is the weaknesse of your cause and what your obstinacy 6. Your intent being to decline what you cannot answer you divert me from the former businesse thus (l) n. 2. My originall doubt was say you that sith the Catholick Church must be alway visible and that I could not by my best inquiry finde that a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of England had been alway visible that that Church was not the nor any part of the Catholick Church What have I to doe with your originall doubt Your Letter and the expression of your desire I looked upon I endeavoured to satisfie your request and I presume a satisfactory answer was given to your demands that so I might win a soul not so much to our Church as to the Communion of Saints and to lead you out of error into the way of truth That the Catholick Church is hath been and must be alway visible is agreed on both hands But by your best enquiry you could not finde that a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of England had been alway visible No more could the Pharisees see the Prophesies that concerned our Saviour though never so visible Alas poore Gentleman little Learning are you troubled with you are not able to search the Scriptures Councels and Fathers as you ought and your enquiry hath been of such as are either ignorant or wilfully blinde and bent to misguide you 7. The doctrine of the Church of England is cleare in our Book of Common-prayer that is the rule for the Laity and such as the true Catholick Church hath alwayes imbraced and continued All therein is positive The Book of Articles is a rule for the Clergy to preserve them from error and much therein is negative He that means sincerely to instruct you so in the right way that you may be a guide to others must give you directions to avoyd the by-paths The positive doctrine of this Church was ever professed and is visible in all Catholick writers But you insist upon no particulars and guile lurks under generalls But I beseech you before you turned over to the Church of Rome why did not you make the like enquiry to finde out a succession of men professing the doctrine of the Church of Rome in those particulars wherein we dissent from them of that Communion If thus you had done you might easily have discerned that that Church is not the nor any part of the Catholick Church if wee goe by your line For the most skilfull of your party are not able to shew such a succession of men in the first 700 years of Christianity 8. But you are pleased to adde that (m) n. 2. to this doubt at our conference I endeavoured your satisfaction by attempting to prove that though the Church of England had not been alway visible at least not seen yet seeing she is but a member of the Catholick Church of which the Church of Rome is another it was sufficient that the Catholick Church had been alway visible in the Church of Rome and other particular Churches though not in the Church of England Good God what foreheads have men Is this could this possibly be my answer Who alwayes justifie that this Church hath been visible since the first or second Conversion though not alwayes under Reformation And for Rome I have demonstrated that the Catholick Church was not alway visible in that City or Diocese § 22 23 29. As also what kind of Church yee had for 450 yeers together § 33. when hardly the form either of Religion or a Church was there to be seen Yet visible it was here when invisible at Rome For you can never shew that this Church was overrun with Montanism Arianism or Eutychianism Yea this was a learned and pious Church when yours was miserably possest with ignorance and impiety Look upon your owne Mr. Pits his Catalogue of our Writers and this will manifestly appeare 9. However then (n) n. 3. that discourse which I sent unto you gave you no satisfaction yet it abundantly clears the questions proposed in your Letter Neither can I possibly expect to withdraw you from that faction who are resolved to receive no satisfaction unlesse we grant that the Church of Rome and those in communion with her are the onely Catholick Church And yet I never reade in Fathers or Councels that to communicate with Rome is either a sure or any token of a good Catholick St. Austine assures us that (o) Aug. quaest Evangel secund Mat. c. 12. they are good Catholicks qui fidem integram sequuntur bonos more 's who hold the undefiled Faith full and whole and observe good manners and those that endevour not to doe this are much to blame While then thus we doe we are good Catholicks But that Faith which we have received from the Apostles and Councels and Fathers we keep whole and undefiled without alteration addition or diminution While they are right we are so If they be out of the way we are content to erre with them Catholicks we are true right Catholicks by Lirinensis rule (p) Vincent Lirin c. 25. Gods truth the Church the body of Christ we love We prefer no mans no Churches authority no affection no wit no eloquence no philosophie nothing whatsoever before Divine Religion and the Catholick Faith These things we set light by and being fixed firme in faith we have determined by Gods grace to hold and beleeve that and that onely which we know to have been held by the Catholick Church universally of old from the beginning of Christianity And whatever new or unheard of doctrine we shall perceive to have been induced by any particular man or Church besides or against all the holy men of God this we understand to proceed from