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A64702 The church-papist (so-called), his religion and tenets fully discovered in a serious dispute ... whereby the common ... arguments of pretended visibility, succession, universality, &c., of the Roman Church ... are briefly confuted : whereunto is added, a short discourse proving episcopacy to be of divine institution, kingly government of Gods setting up, and the religion of the Church of England, to be the best in the world / by one of the children of the late captivity, 1680. Underwood, John, fl. 1680. 1680 (1680) Wing U46; ESTC R7367 28,086 42

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which is true many great men have turned Hereticks Judas chang'd from an Apostle to a Devil so 't is the easie for others to change from Shepherds into Wolves Nor can the Roman Prelates pretend they have only this veràm et sanam Doctrinam or claim a lawful succession of Pastors continually holding entire the Unity and the Eaith for they have not kept the Unity of the Church but have had more Schisms among them than any other Church above thirty acknowledged by their own Chronologer Onuphrius Even Popes themselves have many of them by confession of several Romish Authors who have written of their Lives been very vile erroneous Heretical c. So 't is clear Rome hath no lawful Succession by confession they have only a Succession of gross Superstitions and Errors for a bout a thousand years for which they can shew no Practice on Warrant from the Apostles You further say That our English Bishops had no Succession from Roman Catholick for immediately after Conscoration Stapleton Harding c. your own men told them to their faces they were no Bishops Ergo only the Roman Church have lawful Succession I see you are put to hard straits for proof that seeing the Fathers will not speak for you you are forced to be your own Testimony which with me is less than nothing for who will or can take an Adversary's bare objections for a sufficient confutation of a matter in question for by this your Argument and Rule of proof should I tell you that any of our Party say Stapleton Harding c. were no Scholars though indeed they were great Clarks and should I say they were damnable Hereticks and forsakers of the Truth as in truth they are you ought to admit it as a convincing Testimony else why do you obtrude your sayings for proof but let that pass You confess English Bishops had Consecration from the Roman and so enabled and qualified for the service of the Church If then the Roman had any lawful power to consecrate which I deny not I do not question but their Consecration is valid enough and hold good notwithstanding Stapleton and Hardings words to the contrary for such sayings do not unordain and so we have your Succession and Consecration to boot But whether ordinary Mission or Ordination be so absolutely necessary to the being of Truth as though Truth could nor be without it is with me a question seeing Christ encouraged the Faithful that did wonders in Christ's name and was not sent St. Mark 9.39 40. forbid him not he is on our part c. nor did I ever conceive a necessity lay on the English Church to receive Orders from Rome more than on the Roman to receive Orders from it seeing we were a Church Apostolick assoon yea were a Church before any settlement of a Church in Rome The Religion of Christ was received in Brittain tempore ut scimus summo Tiberii Caesaris in the latter time of Tiberius Caesar as saith St. Gildas de excid Brit. the same is acknowledged by your own man Baronius whereas St. Peter kept in Jury long after Tiberius his death And as Theodoret and Sophronimus Patriarchs of Jerusalem affirm the Apostle St. Paul first taught in Britain Also Aristobulus mentioned Romans 16. came to this Isle and discharged the Office of a Bishop as Dorotheus witnesseth and in his Synopsis also averreth Simon Zelotes Christum praedicavit in Britannia ubi crucifixus occisus et sepultus est The same also affirmeth Nicephorus lib. 2. cap. 40. Simon Zelotes Evangelii Doctrinam ad occidentalem Oceanum Insulasque Britannicas perfert And Joseph of Arimathea An. Dom. 53. taught the Gospel in Britain as Baleus Flemingus and others affirm likewise Tertullian who lived An. Christi 200 saith Britanorum loca Romanis inapoessa Christo subdita sunt advers Judaeos cap. 7.8 After him Origin An. Christi 260. witnesseth Britanniam in Christianam consentire Religionem So it is evident and most clear that Apostles and Apostolick men delivered over the Faith to us and were the first Planters we had many Waterers after of this Plantation and a succession of Doctrine by confession on all sides St. Jerom also Anno 405. records Gallia Britanniá Africa c. unum Christum adorant unam observant Regulam veritatis In which time Bellarmine confesseth the Church was a true Apostolick Church Antiqua Ecclesia primis quingentis Annis vera Ecclesia fuit c. Bel. l. 4. de notab Eccl. cap. 9. and then viz. the first four hundred years we and Rome were of one joint Belief and Faith from one Fountain Christ Jesus and his Apostles and the same faith we had then the same we have now we hold to the old Foundation the Scripture Creed and ractice of the general Church in those times so are we a true Church and a right Member of the Catholick having lawful succession of Doctrine convey'd to us as before is proved from Apostles and Apostolick men whereby it 's evident we are no Novelists nor any of our Profession the Antiquity whereof our very Enemies do acknowledge Reinerus a Roman Inquisitor above three hundred years since speaking of the Professors at Lyons calling them Valdensae Leonistae c. in contempt saith they are more pernitious to the Church of Rome than all other Sects for three causes First being of longer continuance than any other the Sect enduring ever since the Apostles Secondly It is general creeping into all Lands Thirdly It hath a great shew of Godliness they live justly believe all things well concerning God and all the Articles contained in the Creed only they Blaspheme in hating the Church of Rome c. He calls us indeed a Sect as of old the Priests of the Jews called the Church of Christians a Sect of Nazarites Acts 24.5 but you see by Confession we had our Doctrine in former Ages and were a Church from the Beginning and are not estranged from the Church of Rome where she holds the Truth but she from us and the true Catholick Church of Christ nor do we depart from her as they charge us or are any further remote from her than she her self is from her primitive Purity antient Principles from Scripture Reason Charity Antiouity and from what she was in her best of times our present Church of England though often have been under clouds and heavy persecutions still retaining the primitive verity to this day So your second Argument is invalid in that you have not proved nor can prove that the Church of Rome hath this lawful Succession of uncorrupted Doctrine and Principles or that succession of Pastors is necessarily tied to one particular place for ever to make the being of the Catholick Church as though the universal Church of Christ could cease to be if Rome and her Prelates were extinct and turn'd to Ashes Your third Argument from pretended Privileges belonging to the Roman Church viz. 3. That Church only that have confuted and anathematized