the preaching of the Church as touching the Proposition of things to be beleeued but not as the reason of beleeuing For they who propound the doctrine of Faith withall admonish that that doctrine is revealed from God and that God not themselues is to be beleeved And what Is not the holy Catholike Church it selfe an Article of the Creed If it bee why should the rest of the Articles need to be sustained by an higher Principle more then it For if you may be bold to question any of them vntill it be resolued by the Churches authoritie I hope I may be as bold to question the Churches authoritie vntill it be warranted by some farther Principle I demand therefore why you beleeue the Church Because forsooth her authority is infallible And how know you that it is infallible Here of necessity you must either vouch her owne testimonie or betake you to some other thing To stick vpon her testimonie without farther enquirie is absurd For seeing her voice is not the first veritie that being the Prerogatiue of him only who is from all eternity her veracity must needs bee as doubtfull as her infallible authority And indeed this as a very learned Divine exemplifieth it were as if one whose authority is questioned taking vpon him to bee a law-giuer should first make a law and thereby giue himselfe power and afterward by vertue of that power exercise authority over others But if to establish the Churches authority you seek out of her to some other thing as suppose the Scriptures for so I remember you answered me being demanded the same Question then haue I obtained what I would namely that the Church is not the first ground of Faith because by your owne confession there is a former to wit the Scripture Neither is it true that Catholike men hold the Churches authority to be the first Ground For although some pretended Catholikes those I meane who call themselues Roman catholikes may so conceaue of their Church vnderstanding by the Church the Roman church yet neither are they true Catholikes neither is the Roman church the Catholike church neither doe any true Catholikes ground their Faith so True catholikes they are not because they hold a new Faith not that which Catholikely hath beene held in all ages as appeareth by those twelue new Articles lately added to the Creed vnknown vnto the purer times of the Primitiue church Neither is the Roman church the Catholike Church Not in regard of time for Christ had his Church when Rome was not yet Christian. Nor in respect of place for Catholike is Universall Roman Particular that the Church of the whole world this of one Citie or Diocese only Nor lastly in regard of her authority ouer al other Churches for that which she challengeth is but vsurped the Church of Africk in a Councell of two hundred and seuenteene Bishops of whom S. Augustine was a principall with much indignation reiected it and the Greeke church hitherto could never be drawne to acknowledge it And as for those that are true Catholikes they build not their Faith vpon so weake a Ground but rest both it and the Church her selfe vpon the Scriptures The Apostle S. Paul buildeth the whole Houshold of God vpon no other foundation then that of the Prophets and Apostles Knowe thou saith Origen that Christ alwaies appeareth on the mountaines and hills to teach thee that thou seeke him no where but in the mountaines of the Law and Prophets And the Auhor of the imperfect worke on Mathew The Lord knowing the confusion of things that would happen in the latter daies commandeth that such Christians as will receaue assurance of faith fâ—ie to no other thing but the Scripture And Tertullian Take from Hereticks that which they haue common with the heathen that they be content to stint all questions by the scriptures only and they cannot stand And S. Hierom The church of Christ hath for her cities the Law the Prophets the Gospell Apostles she passeth not beyond her limits that is the holy scriptures S. Augustine in the scriptures we learne Christ in the scriptures we learn the Church And againe I say not if we but if an Angell froÌ„ heauen shall deliuer any thing of Christ or his Church or of faith manners besides that which ye haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and Gospell let him be accursed And againe he affirmeth that the Church is to be proued by the Canonical bookes of Scripure and nothing else and that they only are the Demonstration of our cause the very foundation and ground plot whereon we are to build N. N. For proofe of this ground Saint Augustine handleth this matter in a speciall booke to his friend Honoratus deceiued by the Manichees as himselfe also sometimes had bin and he entituleth his booke De vtilitate credendi His discourse is this Suppose that wee now first of all did seeke vnto what Religion we should commit our soules to bee purged and rectified Without all doubt wee must begin with the Catholike Church for that shee is the most eminent now in the world there being more Christians in her this day then in any other Church of Iewes Gentiles put together And albeit among these Christians there be Sects and Heresies and all of them would seeme to be Catholikes and doe call others besides themselues Hereticks yet all grant that if wee consider the whole Body of the World there is one Church among them more eminent then all other and more plentifull in number and as they which know her doe affirme more sincere also in the truth But as concerning truth wee shall dispute more afterward now it is sufficient for them that desire to learne that there is a Catholike Church which is one in it selfe wherevnto diverse Heretickes doe faine and devise divers names whereas they and their Sects are called by peculiar names which themselues cannot deny Whereby all men that are indifferent and not letted by passion may vnderstand vnto what Church the name Catholike which all parts desire and pretend is to bee given Thus St Augustine c. I. D. So maine a point as is the last resolution of faith ought to haue beene better warranted then by the single authority of one Father who how eminent soever hee was in his time yet is not his sole word of strength enough to beare vp such a weight Why did you not vouch the testimony of Saint Paul or Saint Peter or some other of the holy penmen of Gods booke which cannot deceiue you then Saint Augustine or any other of the antient Fathers who both haue erred themselues and may mislead you But thus it is with Papists the more the shame the bare name of a Father swayes them more then the clearest passage of holy writ Howbeit this I say not as if we feared the triall of the Fathers for be it known vnto you wee haue more
there and how many battles haue there beene fought betweene the Iesuits and Dominicans about no meaner matters then Gods free Grace and mans free will To be breefe there is scarce any thing wherein you dissent from vs that you agree in amongst your selues as our Divines haue at large proved Hugo de sancto victore Richardus de sancto Victore Petrus Cluniacensis Liranus Dionisius Carthâ—sianus Hugo Cardinalis Thomas Aquinas Waldensis Richardus Armachanus Picus Mirandula Caietan and others reiect all those bookes as Apocryphall which wee doe Scotus Gerson Occam Cameracensis and Waldensis affirme the Scriptures to be sufficient in all matters of Faith Stapleton confesseth that the infallibility of the Popes judgement is yet no matter of Faith but of opinion only because so many famous and renowned Divines haue held the contrary as Gerson Almaine Occam almost all the Parisians with â—undry others The same Divines together with Adrian the sixt Durandus Alfonsus à Castro and many besides hold that a Councell is aboue the Pope That a man 〈◊〉 not iustified by any inherent quality but only by faith in the merits of Christ. Gerson Contarenus Albertus Pighius the Canons of Cullen the authors of the booke offered by Cesar to the Protestant Collocutors at the assembly of Ratisbon Stapulensis Peraldus Ferus and others doe justifie That wee may be assured we are in the state of Grace Alexander of Hales Iohn Bacon Ambrose Catharin Andreas Vega with others doe clearly testify That all sins are in their owne nature Mortall Gerson Almaine and Fisher B. of Rochester even by the testimony of Bellarmine doe confesse That there is any merit of Condignity Scotus Cameracensis Arminiensis and Waldensis vtterly deny That Matrimony is no Sacrament Durandus affirmes Alexander of Hales saith there are no more but foure Sacraments That one body should be locally in more places then one at once implyeth contradiction saith Thomas of Aquin. and with him agreeth Aegidius Godfrey de Font Alanus and Henricus The conversion of bread wine into Christs body bloud all of vs saith Caietan doe teach in words but in deed many deny it thinking nothing lesse Finally Peter Lombard Thomas and the other Schoolemen hold not a reall and proper Sacrifice in the Masse as now you doe as your owne Bellarmine is forced to acknowledge It were easy for me to instance in diverse points besides but this may suffice for the present to stop your mouth and to teach you this lesson that you be not so busy to vpbraid others with their warts or freckles your selues meane-while being so full of vlcers and botches For it is fowle indiscretion to obiect that to another whereof our selues are more deepely guilty as here you haue done to vs taxing vs for our petty quarrels while your selues like Amalekits are nothing but stabbing and killing one the other N. N. Your third reason D. Field saith the Church of Rome hath continued a true Church even till our time held a saving profession of truth by it converted nations and divers of that Church even learned are saved D. Covel they of Dome were and are the Church and they that liue and die in it may be saved Willet Kings and Queenes of the Roman faith are Saints in Heauen Yea saith your author Many Kings and Queenes of Great Brittaine haue forsaken their Crownes and Kingdomes to become Monkes and Nunnes I. D. That which you obiect out of D. Field D. Field him selfe hath long since at large answered I will contract it as briefly as I can The Summe is the Roman Church is not now the same it was before Luther His reasons First the then Church was the whole number of Christians subiect to the Papal tyranny of whom many desired to be free of the yoke and as soone as Luther began to oppose shooke it off but the now Church is the multitude of those that adore the plenitude of Papal power or are content to be vnder the yoke still Secondly the Roman Church then consisted of men not hauing meanes of information and so not erring pertinaciously but the now Church consisteth of those who obstinately resist the truth or at least consent in outward communion with them So that they might be saued in their simplicity and these perish in their contradiction Thirdly the Roman Church then had in it the same abuses superstitions it hath now and those that erred the same errours but it had also those that disliked them and thought right in those points wherein the rest erred These were true liuing members of the Church those a faction in the Church In regard of those it was truly a Church that is a multitude of men professing Christ and baptized in regard of these a true Church that is a multitude of men holding a sauing profession of Christ. Lastly the errours then taught in the Church were not the Doctrines of the Church but now they are the Doctrines of that Church That they were not then the Doctrines of the Church appeareth thus The Doctrines then taught were either those which all consented vnto such as are the Articles of the Creed or those errors which many then taught or the contrary truths opposed to those errors The first were absolutly the Churches Doctrine So were the third though all received them not because they were theirs who were so in the Church that they were the Church But the second were not because they were taught by the faction in the Church and not consented vnto by them that were the Church Thus farre the Doctor who at length concludeth that whatsoever it hath beene the present Romish Church is not that true Church of God whose communion wee must embrace whose directions we must follow and in whose judgement we must rest Yea but D. Covell in the name of all the rest affirmeth that it is still a true Church and Salvation may be had in it In the name of all the rest Why who gaue him that commission and how comes hee to be the mouth of vs all more then any other of his brethren Certainly your Author much wrongs the Church of England and abuses his reader to make the private sayings of this man or that man to be the common voice of all If he haue spoken more largely then can be justified hee must answere for it himselfe no reason the whole Church should bee charged with it You will not endure it amongst your selues and why should you then obtrude it vpon vs To the words themselues I answere with D. Field Some will say is the Roman Church at this day no part of the Church of God Surely as Augustine noteth that the Societies of Hereticks in that they retaine the profession of many parts of heavenly truth and the ministration of the Sacrament of Baptisme are so farre forth still conioyned with the Catholike Church of God and the Catholike Church in and by them bringeth forth children vnto God so
Bellarmine this confession that it followeth not necessarily where succession is there is a Church Nor Continuance For the malignant Church hath lasted hitherto and will yet longer and many of the Churches planted by the Apostles are now failed which yet were true Churches Nor Visibility For the Church of Greece which you count Hereticall hath ever since the first founding of it beene and is still Visible And such Persecutions and Scandalls may arise in the Church as may much eclipse the glory thereof reducing the Saints to a small number scattering the Ministers suspending the exercise of Ecclesiasticall discipline and interrupting the publike service so as the true Professors seeking shelter from the storme shall hardly bee discerned So was it vnder the old Testament in the daies of Elias so vnder the new when the whole world groned vnder Arianisme and so shall it bee in the time of Antichrist as out of your writers in the former treatise I haue already declared Nor lastly Vnitie For as the Church of God is one so the Divels Babylon is also one And who knowes not what jars and dissentions sometimes were among the Corinthians and Galatians and betweene the East and West Churches about the celebration of Easter which neverthelesse were true Churches And thus you see how vncertaine and deceivable your notes be If this yet be not enough to perswade you I hope being backed with authority of your great Cardinall Bellarmine it may suffice who maketh them in themselues to bee but probable N. N. If it could be proved that these notes belong to the Protestant Church it would much alter your opinion I. D. It seemes you take for granted that these notes are to be found in the Romā Church But you presume too farre Was never a more broken Succession in any Church then that Who at the first succeeded whom is vncertaine namely in what order Linus Clemens Cletus Anacletus should stand About thirty Schisms haue beene therein some of them continuing scores of yeares together in which haue beene two Popes three Popes at once neither could it easily bee discerned which was lawfull Pope Fifty of them in a row were Monsters rather then Men Apotacticall and Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall How many haue intruded themselues into that See by Simonie How many haue beene intruded at the pleasure of harlots Yea a Whore hath sitten in the Pontificall chaire So saith Sigebert Marianus Scotus Bergomensis Iohannes Stella Nauclerus Iohannes Lucidus Baptista Ignatius Balaeus Sabellicus Ranulphus Petrarch Boccace Mathew Palmer Trithemius and Martinus Polonus all which it will bee hard for your new vpstarts of yesternight to outface or controle As for the rest of your Notes if the present Church of Rome be much degenerated from its Primitiue purity and nothing resemble that which Saint Paul first planted there as I am ready to proue whensoever you shall call vpon me for it then are they not to be found therein For neither hath it continued the same nor is the profession by which it is Visibly the same nor is it One with it selfe For of other differences and dissentions among you you shall heare more anon in the due place But can wee finde them in the Protestant Church Let vs trie That the Succession of Bishops in the Church of England vntil Arch-Bishop Cranmers time was lawfull I know you will not deny That he and all the Bishops in the time of K. Edward and Q. Elizabeth and so downeward were Canonically called and consecrated what stronger proofe can you desire then the publike Registers of every See Out of which so much as concernes this businesse is now published to the view of the whole world designing both the time when the place where together with the names of those Bishops that imposed hands And this is so cleare that your owne Cudsemius comming into England of purpose to obserue the state of our Church thus writeth concerning the state of the Calvinian sect in England it so standeth that it may either endure long or be suddenly changed and in a trice in regard of the Catholike order there in a perpetuall line of their Bishops and the lawfull succession of Pastors receiued from the Church for the honour whereof wee vse to call the English Calvinists by a milder tearme not Hereticks but Schismaticks Touching your other three Notes I presume it will not be denyed that a Church professing to beleeue in the Lord Iesus and by him in the holy and blessed Trinity and confessing all the Doctrines contained in the Scriptures together with the three Creeds of the Apostles the Nicene and of Athanasius hath hitherto continued Visible and in Vnity from the Apostles times And such is the Church of the Protestants for all this we both professe and confesse and whatsoever wee affirmatiuely hold the same in a manner doe you affirme with vs. For as for the Negatiues they are but novelties nor can you proue them out of any Antiquity Succession therefore Continuance visibility vnity belong vnto our Church I must entreat you to remember your promise and according therevnto to alter your mind And so much for your preamble N. N. Your treatise was not intended to me Howbeit you thank mee for my reply acknowledging your inability to answer and hoping I expect it not from you I. D. Whether your Treatise were intended to me or no is not much materiall Sure I am it was delivered mee as from you and therevpon did I returne you that reply which had it taken due effect I should haue had more cause to thanke God then now you haue to thanke mee Answer from your selfe I confesse I expected none◠for I knew your insufficiency But I hoped you would haue taken counsell of some more sufficient then your selfe and vpon conference with them haue sent me your common Answer Which because you haue not done being conscious to your owne inability it is a manifest argument of wilfull obstinacy and that you will not bee perswaded though be perswaded N. N. Notwithstanding you haue no reason to beleeue mee seeing other Divines not Papists only but Protestants also seeme to vnderstand the Fathers as you doe I. D. It is a foule vntruth that Protestants vnderstand the Fathers as you doe as shall by and by to your shame appeare In the meane season know that what I haue said I haue not barely affirmed but soundly proved and neglecting demonstratiue reasons meerely to bee swayed with humane authority is no other then to put off common sense and to forget that wee are reasonable creatures N. N. I except only against two or three passages the rest therefore are truly related and the letter of them is for the reall Presence Which how it can bee and yet no Transubstantion you vnderstand not The word Transubstantiation was indeed devised in the counsell of Lateran but the thing was alwaies beleeved of the ancient Fathers as appeareth by their words Conversion
warrant it By Scripture You haue barred your selfe from all hope of succour thence For it is obscure equivocall ambiguous every way vncertaine By Naturall Reason The Articles of Faith are aboue Reason and the Naturall Man is not capable of them By the Spirit then That is the thing you so much jest at in others And if by your doctrine you cannot assure your selfe that you are in the present state of Grace neither can you know whether you haue the spirit of God or no. What then may be your last refuge The testimony of the Church touching her selfe Ridiculous for no mans testimony may be admitted in his owne cause And what a reasoning is this You beleeue the Articles of Faith Why Because the Church biddeth you doe so How followeth this Because shee cannot erre And how proue you that Because she saith shee cannot erre If this bee not to expose the Christian Faith vnto the laughter of Atheists and prophane men I know not what it is Will you nill you when you haue said all you can say either you must haue no certaine ground at all for your Faith or you must rest vpon the Scriptures as the finall resolution thereof Returne therefore I beseech in the feare of God returne vnto the sure anchor-hold of your salvation Abandon those frothie generalities of your seducing authors which at the best are but coniecturall and labour to stablish your Conscience vpon the testimony of him that will not that cannot deceiue you Pray vnto him fervently and proceed in a syncere loue of the truth and you shall surely finde that if you be not defectiue to your selfe God will never faile you For my part I haue done what belongs to mee I haue planted I haue watered it is God that must giue the increase And to his mercy in Christ Iesus I commend you An advertisement to the Reader Vnto the Section of Pag. 27. I there freely confessed I could not certainly answere for want of Doctor Mortons booke Since that time I haue met with it and thereby I perceaue that though I answered only by conâ—ecture yet I coniectured not amisse Yet now farther be pleased to vnderstand first that the Doctor citeth not Bibliander as my adversary vntruly chargeth him but only answereth a passage quoted by his adversary Breerly out of him And he answereth in effect as I doe saue that he bringeth in Bellarmine confessing that which to my good man seemeth so strange namely that all Protestants acknowledge in the Eucharist a Sacrifice Eucharisticall or of thanksgiuing Secondly touching those Rabbins R. Cahana R. Iudas and R. Simeon hee belyeth the Doctor it is Breerly that cites them not hee Neither doth he Positiuely say that their testimonies make directly for Transubstantiation But conditionally if they were such Now that they are not such hee proueth For consulting with D. Smith D. Layfield and M. Bedwell very learned Hebricians about this matter they after their painfull and industrious search into the cited places returned vnder their hands this answere R. Cahana in that booke on the 49 of Gen. is not cited nor hath hee there any thing to that purpose R. Iudas in that booke on the 25 of Exod. hath no such thing nor in the whole Parasha Terumah R. Simeon wrote no booke carrying the title of Revelatio Secretorum And thus you see while simple Papists will beleeue nothing but what their guides tell them what pretty tales of Robin Hood they devise for them O that God would be pleased to soften the seared consciences of the one and to open the blindfolded eyes of the other Farewell IOHN DOWNE FINIS A Testimony taken from M. Perkins on Heb. 11. v. 7. to be added to those annexed to the first Sermon But how doth God worke this faith By his word For as God is the author and worker of Faith so God hath appointed a meanes whereby he workes it and that is his word which word of God is the only ordinary outward meanes to worke faith And that word of God is two wayes to be considered either as revealed by God himselfe as to Noah here or else being written by God is either preached by his Ministers or read by a mans selfe in want of preaching and these are all one and are all meanes ordained of God to worke faith and that not only to beginne it where it is wanting but to augment it where it is begunne END So much doth the originall word beare and therefore our last translators haue set it in the Margent M. Smith Preacher at Barstaple Ezech. 14.14 and 28 3. Ver. 1. V. 2. Ioh. 5.28.29 1 Chron. 28.9 ver 13. V. 14. V. 15. V. 16. V. 17. V. 18. 1. Tim. 4 16. Phil. 2.15 psal 34.5 Prov. 4.18 Math. 13.43 43.20 148 36. 2. Cor. 4.17 1. Pet. 5.4 1. Cor. 9.25 Act. 15.5 vers â— vers 4.6 vers 7. c. vers 13.14.15 vers 19.20 Num. 25.1 c Lev. 17.10 In Preachers plea. In Baron â—1 16. n. 23. Duplic cont Stapl. l. 1. c. 6. Act. 13.27 Deut 33.10.11 2 King 23.2 Nâ—h 8.3 Elias Levita Ben. Maimon Apol. against T.C. Eccles. Polit. l. 5. Hom. 1. p. 1. Marâ— 16.15 2. Cor. 2.16 2. Tim. 4.1.2 Defens eccles author l. 3. c. 7. Trois verites l. 3. c. 4. par 3. Confront ibid Canon 4. Can 11. In ans to the Abstract Esa. 29.12 Id. 61.1.2 Paraen ad Gentes l. 17. Strom. l. 1. p. 1. Doct. Christ. Prol. Cont. Bellar. contro 1. Confront l. 3. c. 4. In Rhem. Test Ro. 1. 15. Cont. Bellar. con 1. q. 6. c. 9. De Idol Eccl. Ro. ep ded Advers Cost de Script De S. script Against peril of idol p. 1. Preface to the Reader Rom. 15.4 Preface to the Reader Deut. 13.11 17.1 6.6 Ioh. 5.39 Col. 4.16 1 Thes. 5.27 Act. â— 27.15.21 Mat. 24.15 Eph. 3.4 Confes. l. 8. c. 12. Cont. Lindâ—n In vita sua Acts Mon. Preach plea. Def. of AdmoÌ„ Preach plea. Act. 2.41 Iob. 33.23.24 Contra Char. l. 3. c. 4. Prov. 29.18 Esaiah 1.1 1. Cor. 1.21 Duplic cont Stapl l. 2. c. 10 De S. Script Rom. 10 13.14 Ps. 19.1.2.3 Rom. 1.20 Deut. 17.11 2. Thes. 2.8 Act. 13.27 Rom. 10.8 Ioh. 19.37 Rom. 3.19 Heb. 12.5 Rom. 9.27 Ioh. 5.39 Heb. 4.12 Luc. 16.29 Gal. 4.21.22 Confront l. 3. c. 4. Ibid. De verb. scrip In Rhem. Test. Rom. 1.15 Dupl contr Stapl. l. 2. c 10. De script q. 5. c. 8. arg 2. Cont. A.D. c. 9 1. King 17.6 Ioh. 19.6 Act. 2.4 Act 9.3 c. Gal. 1.12 Dupl cont Stap. l. 2. c. 6. In the way to the true Ch. In Ps. 26. Ep. 3. Dial. cum Try phon L. 7. in Iulian Hom. 1. in Ioh De Script q. 2. c. 14. arg 5. De verb. scrip â—ut 28. Cor. 2.4 Dupl contr Stapl. l. 1. c. 9. 2. Pet. 1.15 Deut. 31.11.12 Ier. 36.2 c. V. 19. V. 5. Ioh. 20.31 Cap. 18. Comment in Psal. initio Ser. 35. Iohn 6.63