caepta 〈◊〉 quidam enim altiùs repetentes à beato Helia Iohanne sumpsere principium quorum Helias plus nobis videtur fuisse quà m Monachus Iohannes antè Prophetare caepisse quà m natus est alij autem in quam opinionem vulgus omne consentit asserunt Antonium huius propositi fuisse caput quod ex parte verum est It hath beene often douted among many by which of Monkes especiallie the wildernes began to be inhabited for some fetching the matter somewhat high haue taken the beginning of blesseá Elias and Ihon of which two Elias seemeth to vs to haue beene more then a Monke and Iohn to haue prophecied before he was borne but other into which opinion all the common sorte consenteth affirme that Antonie was the heade or cheefe of this purpose which is partlie true By these wordes it is euident that Saint Ierome counteth Helias and Ihon Baptist to be of a higher calling then that they could be called Monkes or patterns of Monasticall life ascribing the beginning of them rather to Paul and Antonie then to Helias and Iohn Baptist although they both for some time did lead an austere life in the wildernes the same doth your next author Cassianus Collat 18. Cap. 6. neither doth he once call Iohn Baptist a Monke or patterne of monasticall life but onelie sheweth that the Anachorites desiring to encounter openlie with the deuill feared not to pearse into the vast solitarie places of the wildernes ad imitationem scilicet Iohannis Baptistae to the imitation of Iohn Baptist who ledd his life in the wilderens so doe not your Popifh Monkes but lie in their warme nests in the cloysters What Sozomenus saith I haue shewed a little before Isodorus agreeth with Saint Ierome and Cassianus that the Anachorites which liue alone doe follow Elias and Iohn Baptist where as the Coenobites which liue in companies in that point more like your Monks do follow the Apostles As for Theoph. in c. 1. Lu. which you note next hath nothing sounding towards the name of monkor monastical life except you meane where he saith that Iohn liued in the wildernes as Elias did The last author you quote Nicephorus Hist. li. 8. c. 39. hath nothing more then the verie words of Sozomene that some men said that Elias was the beginner of that solitarie life of Christians some that Iohn Baptist. And among all your authors there is not one that saieth Iohn Baptist was a Monke of the newe Testament or a patern of such monasticall life as you defend that there should be so great consent there of that matter where of you bragge so much But names and quotations of Doctors are sufficient either for you that by all likeliehood neuer turned the bookes your selfe or for your sottish schollers that accept all your wordes without examination and triall After this followeth a vaine strife of words cōcerning the signification of this terme sect which of M. Charke is taken for a schisme as it is manifest by the example he bringeth of the 1. Cor. 1. The Censurer sometime taketh it in good part and sometime in euill sometime he maketh it equall with the terme of heresie sometime more particulare which contention seeing it is vnprofitable for the readers I do willinglie omit referring them that list to vnderstand ofit further to the comparison ofboth their writings where they shall finde that Master Charke in effect preuenteth all his cauillations by saying that the names of heresie and sect areoften times confounded which to prooue the Censurer busieth him-selfe in vaine It is somewhat materiall that he saith the Corinthians erred in a point of faith esteeming the vertue or power of Baptisme not to depend onelie of Christ but of the dignitie of the Baptizer And surelie there muste be some opinion touching faith where there is a schisme in the Church though there be not a dissent in the necessarie articles of faith but a schisme or sect may be where neither the generall doctrine nor the societie of the Church is forsaken as inthe example 1. Cor. 1. which is contrarie to the descriptionof the censure Sectaries are such as cut themselues of in opinion of religion from the general body of the Catholike Church for so did not the Corinth 1. Cor. 1. howsoeeur they had an opinion of some excellencie in the minister of Baptisme nor the 1. Cor. 11. 18. where Saint Paul likewise chargeth them with schismes when they came together to celebrate the communion which text being likewise quoted by M. Chark is cleane omittedby the defender But now you would cleare your sectes of Monkes and Fryers from the example of the Corinthian schismatikes by a fond similitude supposing our ministers should saie in a contrarie sense of libertie I will luie vnmaried after the order of my Lord of Canterburie I will bem aried after the platforme of my Lord of London I will haue two wiues together after the fashion of Master Archdeacon of Salisburie I will haue a wife and a wench after the custome of some other Archdeacon and preahcer Concerning your example if any Archdeacons be of such fashion as you describe them I would they had such punishment as to such fashions belongeth and if you be hable lawfullie to conuince them thereof I doubt not but they shal As for the other 2. of being maried vnmaried be matters in deede of Christian libertie that euerie minister may choose that which he findeth to be most expedient for him but if any minister should glorie of his continent life out of mariage by hauing my Lorde of Canterhurie for his patterne or of his chaste life in mariage by following my Lorde of Londons platforme he might iustlie be noted for a schismatike as Saint Paull doth the Corinthians when they saide I am of Paul I of Apollo I of Cephas and I of Christ. For the platforme order patterne or example of men in these cases must not be their warrant but the worde of God which text is plaine that in profession of Religion we may not be called by the names of men no nor by the name of Christ or Iesus therebie to make a diuision or seperation of our selues in excellencie from other to whome Iesus Christ is common as well as to our selues For euerie one of your sects termed of Benedict Augustine Frauncis Dominike Iesus c. although in the generall doctrine of Poperie they al agree yet haue they their seuerall opinions each one of the excellencie of thier orders and patrons which maketh a schisme and often times hath broken forth into great brawling and open contention It is too manifest that the Monkes commonlie hated the Fryars the Dominicans and Franciscans were at deadlie feede the not obseruants enuied the obseruants and they despised the children of their owne father Frauncis as bastardes in comparison of them selues and now the Iesuites are hated and inuicd of all other sects of Monkes and especiallie of Fryars whome they bring
but the promise of truth which indeed if it be shewed so manifest that it cannot come in doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which I am holden in the Catholike Church But if it be onelie promised and not exhibited no man shall mooue me from that faith which bindeth my minde with so manie and great knottes vnto Christian religion Let vs see therfore what Maniche doth teach me c. These wordes declare that setting aside the wisdom of the Church grounded vpō the scriptures which the heretikes would not acknowledge there were manie other things that might iustlie holde him in the Catholike Church among which the name of Catholikes was but one and serued onelie at that time when the Catholike religion was moste commonlie imbraced therefore he denied not that the name of Catholike onelie was sufficient to teach a man to knowe the Church and the trueth by it but acknowledgeth that all these motiues of vniuersalitie consent miracles succession name of Catholike must giue place to the trueth when it is plainlie shewed out of the canonicall scriptures as in the chapter following he vrgeth them to shew out of the gospells of Christ wher it is writen that Manicheus was an Apostle of Christ as his sect affirmed and his epistle pretended As for the reason you alledge that vnlearned men are not able to stand with heretikes in disputation which wil challenge the Church to themselues is of no force for the vnlearned man ought to know the Church by the true notes thereof conteined in the scriptures which is sufficient for to satisfie his conscience although he can not cunninglie auoide all the Sophisticall arguments that the aduersarie bringeth whereas theonelie name of Catholikes can breede no true faith or quietnes of minde which is not obteined by the peoples iudgement but by authoritie of the worde of God And seing the people are commonlie deceiued in many matters of difficultie and moste of all in misnaming of things what assurance shall the vnlearned haue that they be not deceiued in this so weightie a matter and wherein their speach may so easilie be abused But howsoeuer it was the common calling of the people brought you to know Catholikes Catholikes to know the Church and the creede taught you to beleeue the Church rules in Popes pardons then in other articles Thus is your faith builded altogether vpon humane presumptions the ladder whereof is this you beleeue Popes pardons because the Church of Rome alloweth them you beleeue the Church of Rome because it is the Catholike Church you beleeue that it is the Catholike Church because the people commonlie call it so But of Christian faith Saint Paull describeth another ladder faith commeth by hearing hearing by the worde of God preached by ministers sent of God so that against the authoritie of god who giueth both his worde and preachers and by them true faith you haue the generall and common calling of men which giue authority to that companie to be the Church which is surnamed Catholike which company so called may cause you to beleeue what they list and this indeed is the ground of al your heresies if you had gone one step lower that the Deuill inspireth ignorant and wicked men to call his fowle blouse the Romish synagogue by the name of the beautifull spouse of Christ his Catholike Church ALLEN The second cause that mooued me to reuerence the power of pardoning in the high Bishup and to like his Indulgences was the verie persons of them which first reprooued the same In whome because I saw the worlde to note and wonder at other manie moste blasphemous and inexcusable heresies I verilie deemed though I was then for my age almoste ignorant of all thinges that this opinion and impugnation of Pardons could neither be of God nor of good motion that first began in them begate such a number of most wicked cōtentio is opinions as streight vpon the controlling of the Churches power herein did ensue not onelie against Christs officers in earth but against his Saints in heauen against himselfe in the blessed Sacrament This extreame intollerable issue mee thought verilie could haue no holie entraunce and therfore with the other named cause stayed me in the Churches faith euen then when I had no feeling nor sense in the meaning of these matters FVLKE You were a wise young man in those daies when being almost ignorant of all things as you confesse you would follow the iudgement of the worlde in condemning the persons of them that reprooued pardons and were not able to iudge whether they were iustlie condemned of other blasphemous inexcusable heresies Nay at this presēt time as great a cleark as you are taken to be among your friends you are not able to conuince thē of such blasphemous inexcusable heresies as you prate of And yet if you had bin thō as able iustly to haue reproued thē by the scriptures of such monsters as the world did wonder at in them yet you staied vpō a weake staffe except this be a good atgumēt with you heretiks hold manifest false opinions therefore they holde no true opinions Much more wiselie and soundlie you should haue sought the true Church as Saint Augustine teacheth out of the scriptures and thereby iudged of the worldes noting and wondring which because it consisteth moste of wicked men doth commonlie condemne Christ and his Gospell Out of the same scripture you should haue learned who were Christes officers and whoe the limmes of Antichrist what honour is due vnto the saints in heauen and what manner presense there is of Christ vpon earth But as your faith was thē grounded vpō simple sophistrie in supposing that which no wise man will graunt so is it not now much differing from the same although you haue learned with more craft to peruert a few scriptures and to wrest the sayinges of some dctors for a florish hauing no more substance of true faith which is builded vpon the word of God then you had before For if your shameles principle be denyed that you are the Church of Christ then you come back to these beggerlie motyues as in your articles and Bristowes motyues is manifest being not able either to finde the notes of the true Church in the synagogue of Rome nor to iustify the doctrine of the Church of Rome to be builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles when triall is to be made by their writings ALLEN But afterwad reading the historie of the pitifull fal of our time and there considering the sinister intent and occasion of the first improofe of Pardons and all the strange endeuours of Luther whose name is cursed to all good men who first in all mans memorie sauing one Wicleffe who was condemned in Constance Councell for the same was so bolde onelie vpon contention and couetousnes to condemne that which himselfe in Conscience knew to be true and lawfull I could not
texte of corruption testifying that the auncient reading was CAROV which signifieth they haue pearced which Mazorites said Master Sherwine And so much touching the comparison betweene Master Campian and Master Sherwine in whome as there was litle helpe for your cause so we thinke you haue lost noe greate aduantage by their taking away out of this life But let vs see what be the wordes of your publike challenge We request you yea we coniure you either for trueths sake if you seeke it or for your owne credits sake if yee will retaine it that you yeald vs after so much sute and supplication some equall triall either by writing preaching or disputing Although we should not yealde either to your requeste or to your 〈◊〉 we might haue that loue of trueth and care of our credit which becommeth vs. For trueth hath bene so well and long tried to be on our parte that our credit in mainteining thereof cannot be cracked if we should altogeather refuse any new triall For why should you be admitted after 24. yeares to any new triall which refused in the beginning so lawfull and solemne a triall as the like in any memorie was neuer offered in this lande what sute or supplication you haue made I knowe not except you meane the seditious challenge of Campian which was caste about as a lible to erect and stirre the wauering mindes of your inconstant disciples into expectation of some great alteration not lawfully and orderlie deliuered to them to whome it was intituled as an humble sute or supplication Againe there is noe reason that vpon any sute or supplication there should any further triall be graunted vnto you that haue beene alreadie so often conuicted condemned in the cause as though the matter were stil in question or doubt with vs but onely in respect of some weake and doubtfull persons vnto whose infirmitie in hope of their satisfaction and full resolution something may be yealded For what wise man would graunt to the Manichees Arrians Macedonians and such other absurde heretikes so long since condemned at this time any new triall or iudgement by publike disputation preaching or writing although they did neuer soe importunatelie craue it yea as you doc adiure and coniure them to it And seeing you are so indifferent as you pretend to enter into any equal trial either by writing preaching or disputation what maketh you so vehement in calling for triall when one of these waies neither is nor can be denied vnto you namelie triall by writing yea you haue beene prouoked and challenged to the most equal way of triall by writing which is by syllogisme to trie how you can vphold any of your heresies by vs condemned whereunto you are now the rather to be called because you complaine that Campian was not suffered to oppose Set downe your syllogismes in the defense of any article of controuersy that you holde against vs or in oppugning any point of doctrine that we hold against you either in writing or in print so as they may come to our handes you shal receiue a speedie and a readie answere This triall you may haue without daunger sute or charges if it were triall and not treason that you sought to practize vnder pretext of publike trial by preaching or disputing Els what neede you be so importune for anie equall triall when this the moste equal the moste easie the moste profitable triall or way of triall for finding out and iudgeing on which side trueth doth stand neither is nor can be taken from you There is noe reason in the world you say but onelie feare that may mooue vs to denie you this your request But they that be wise can easilie iudge that there is great reason to denie you anie such request where your purpose is knowne to be sedition and not triall neuerthelesse your request of triall by writing is not denied you as I haue saide before vse it then when you thinke good and make no more babling of triall if you seeke nothing but triall and be indifferent to take anie of these three kindes of triall The reason of the state you saie which is alleadged against your request is mosts vaine For what can a peaceable disputation graunted you for religion indaunger our state but onelie it may chaunce to discouer our errors and so make the hearers detest our state of heresie You carie peace in your mouthes and swordes in your hartes I haue touched some reasons alreadie they that gouerne the state can saie much more As for peaceable disputations vppon controuersies in religion are dailie practized in our scholes for excercise sake in which all the arguments you can bring are vrged as vehementlie as you your selues can doe in peaceable manner and are so clearlie auoided either by the answerer or at lest by the moderator as all reasonable hearers may plainlie see that we stande for trueth against 〈◊〉 and heresie and if anie do wauer in opinion vpon so manifest euidence of trueth he iudgement without that we stand of triall that are readie to abide stand with our duetie and is demonstration of trueth As for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you doe once againe require that obteine for you whatsoeuer you is well knowne to be but a 〈◊〉 for an other purpose then triall of trueth whereof if you were so desirous as you would seeme to be by your challenge and so indifferent to accept anie of the three before named kindes of triall as in wordes you did so latelie make shew you would not be so importunate for this kinde of triall by disputing which is not like to be graunted vnto you lest it might be surmised that we would be content to bring our faith into doubte and disceptation refuse the safest the quietest and the best kinde of triall that is offered vnto you which is by writing You fare like a cowardlie russian which knowing a man to be bounde to the peace will make no end of bragging and challenging him to fight but if anie man that is at libertie offer to trie a blow or two with him he is as colde to the combate as he was before hotte to the challenge You offer your selues to the labor charges and perill of life and yet you aske for your safeties such a warrant from her Maiestie as the late councell of Trent did offer to all protestants of the world If you offer your selues to the perill of your liues what need you anie warrant for your safeties except you thinke her maiesties warrant is no better then such as is giuen by popish Councels and princes which notwithstanding anie safeconduits leagues truces or warranties of safetie are at their libertie to make contrarie Canons and to execute most cruell burnings massacres and murthers of Gods saints and innocent lambes which haue committed their liues into such faithlesse tyrants hands But God be praised her highnes honour hath neuer bene blemished with the least spotte of vnfaithfulnes that you should seare
which truelie comprehendeth all thinges vniuersallie These wordes in rehearsing the saying of Vincentius our answerer could not beare and therefore left them out bragging of vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent whereby his aduersaries spirit might quicklie be tried But let him once attempt to trie anie one peece of Poperie by this rule of Vincentius and so shew it to be Catholike as he describeth Catholike and he shall finde it an harder matter to performe then to talke of examining his point by the authenticall writings of the most auncient doctors for 200. yeares after Christ. The seuenth waie of triall is succession of Popes in the seate of Rome wherein the successor alwaies teaching the doctrine of his predecessor it must needes be a strong argument to prooue the descent and continuance of one the same faith from the Apostles time This argument is vsed by Saint Augustine and Optatus against the Manichees and Donatistes But this waie of triall he knoweth his aduersaries will not admit But he is deceiued for seeing he ioyneth succession in doctrine with succession in place let him make triall when he dare and prooue that Peter and all the Bishops of Rome that liued for foure fiue or six hundred yeares after Christ did holde all points of Poperie and had none other faith then the Papists haue now Some of the later mightholde some few and of the best errors But let them shew all in euerie one and take all but that shall thev neuer be able to doe brag they of succession as long as they list The eight waie of triall is to examine what part doth holde any olde condemned heresie for the true Church can neuer admit or defend any heresie for otherwise she could not be the piller of truth The true Church may erre in matters which are not of necessitie to saluation yet be the piller of trueh so long as she holdeth al truth necessarie to saluation yea some true Church may be seduced for a time with hereticall opinions as the Churches of Corinth and Galatia but not obstinately defend them nor continue in them For of a particuler Church as the Church of Ephesus the Apostle speaketh wherein Timothie had his conuersation But we beleeue saith the answerer with holie Athanasius in his creede that he which holdeth not the faith whollie in all points shall perish eternallie howsoeuer our aduersaries doe salue the matter in their Prophets Berengarius Husse Wicklife and Luther whome they saie to haue bene holie men and yet to haue erred in diuerse pointes offaith and to haue held their errors obstinatlie to the daie of their death And we beleeue with holie Athanasius that whoesoeuer shall not holde that Catholike faith which he or whoesoeuer vnder his name setteth downe in that Symbole or creed wholl and vndefiled without doubt he shall perish eternallie But not euerie one that erreth in any small point of doctrine or faith which is not of the foundation of our religion For so doth not Athanasius saie and our aduersarie falsisieth both his wordes and meaning to drawe him to that sense of his Now if Berengarius Wicklife Husse Luther cannot be conuinced of any heresie contrarie to Athanasius Creede though they erred in other points they are not subiect to his sentence of eternall damnation more then Cyprian Augustine Hierome whoe erred also in some points of doctrine yet are rightlie accounted saints and elect of God as they which held the foundation and all articles of faith necessarie to saluation But where he chargeth vsto saie that Berengarius Husse c. did erre in diuerse points of faith meaning thereby diuerse articles of Athanasius Creede he doth vs and them great iniury for that we neither saie nor thinke neither saie we that they did obstinatelie holde those errors wherein they were deceiued although they did stiflie holde them not as heretikes which are condemned in their owne conscience but as men deceiued with zeale of truth euen in those points wherin they were deceiued But we beleeue saith he the contrarie by which beliefe he will condemne the best and most auncient Catholike fathers who as men helde euerie one of them for the moste parte one error as hath bene shewed But whoesoeuer coulde shew saith he but one confessed heresie to be defended by our Church there needed no more disputation about the matter It will be a hard matter to make the Papists confesse that their Church holdeth any heresie but it hath beene often shewed that the Popish Church holdeth many things of olde time condemned for heresie as worspiping of the Image of Christ in the Carpocratites and Gnostikes Inuocation of Angels in the Caianes licensing of women to Baptize in the Marcionites worspiping of Angels of men and women that are dead in the Collyridians and such like But for the right vse of this triall he requireth two conditions to be obserued The first is that the partie do in deede holde that which is obiected and not a certaine likelyhood of it in which point he chargeth vs to slaunder them with the heresie of Pelagius concerning free will who held that men without the helpe of Gods grace by the power and force of nature could worke well but they require that a man should be preuented and holpen with the grace of God In trueth we do not obiect vnto them all articles of Pelagius heresie but yet they are not free for Pelagius held that by the power of nature men might keepe Gods law but more easelie by the help of Gods grace the former the Papists holde not but they holde the latter that a man holpen with Gods grace hath free-will and power to keepe Gods law Their doctrine also of merite ex congruo of workes preparatorie before grace and such like are nothing els but branches of the Pelagian heresie The like iniurie he saith we do them in objecting the heresie of those that did sacrifice to our Ladie which they do not A great iniurie I promise you the Collyridians offered cakes onelie to her the Papists offer candels ouches and brouches monie and Iewels The Collyridians did garnish a charret where her Image was the Papists adorne tabernacles as they call them yea chappels altars and Churches to worship her Epiphanius condemneth the studie of making her Image and the Images of dead saints as a deuellish attempt He inueigheth most seuerelie against the worshipping of the virgine Marie of Angels and of saintes departed yetall this is Catholike among the Papists and we offer them iniurie to charge them with this olde heresie because they do not offer cakes as the Collyridians did The second condition is that the heresie obiected be accounted condemned for an heresy in the Primitiue Church not onelie held by an heretike for heretikes held manie trueths together with their heresies And here he complaineth that Doctor Fulke doth them wrong in saying that praiers for the dead is an heresie because the Montanistes which were
such like being Papistes might write eleuen score lies against Luther Zuinglius Oecolampadius Caluine Beza and the rest Concerning the reporte of Prateolus that Luther should be begotten of a deuill you saie Master Charke greatlie bewraieth his fasehoode and after you haue set downe the reporte of Prateolus vnperfectlie you praise his modestie and blame the bolde impudencie of William Charke in saying he auoucheth that which he auoucheth not But where doth William Charke faie that Prateolus doth auouch it his wordes are of a slaunder laid downe against Martin Luther how he was begotten of a deuill which you confesse that Prateolus reporteth as he doth in deede out of Coclaeus and Cocleus out of other mens writings whether Prateolus him-selfe doth credit it altogether or no it skilleth not this slaunder among other he laieth downe against Luther and fauoureth the reporte of other so farre that he woulde haue it seeme credible but as for saying that he auoucheth it Master Chark speaketh not one whit Let the Reader therefore iudge who bewraieth his falsehood in this point and vppon whome the reproch of bolde impudencie maie iustlie be laid But Master Charke sheweth as great fullie as impudencie if we beleeue you in making mention of such a foule matter whereupon at the least remaineth a shamefull suspicion In deede it is the triumph of slaunderers if they cannot kill with their stroke yet to leaue a scarre where the wound is healed Although the slaunder of a matter so impossible leaueth no suspition in anie mans head that hath anie witte or vnderstanding in it but discouereth the malice and follie of the inuenters of such monstrous slaunders yet you affirme that the probabilitie of the thing seemeth to haue beene so great in those daies as Erasmus beleeued it But here you go asfarre beyond the modestie of your author Prateolus as ere while you charged Master Charke to be runne For his wordes are these Adhans historiam alludere alicubi Erasmum non est à vero alienum to this story it is not altogether vnlikelie or straunge from the trueth that Erasmus doth in some place allude he saith not that Erasmus did beleeue it No he is not able to prooue that Erasmus did obiect it For the speech of Erasmus is onelie of certaine vncleane speeches where with he complaineth that he was vniustlie charged by Luther in that vnmodest epistle which you translate drunken Now saie you if Master Charke will stand vpon the deniall not so much of the fact as of the nature of the thing it selfe as impossible that spirites can so abuse lewd women that will consent to their lustes you will oppose against him S. Augustine which saith it were impudencie to denie it and Ludouicus viues vpon the same place Sir Cauiller the thing in question is not whether foule spirites maie abuse the bodies of lewd women for beside the authoritie of Saint Augustine who standeth moste vpon testimonies we haue the testimonie of Wierus a man verie expert in such matters who maketh reporte of diuers Nunnes so abused by vncleane spirites yea of diuers Nunneries in which manie were so dealt with all and namelie a notable nunnerie in the borders of the prouince of Collene where the deuill in the likenes of a dogge in the daie time was seene to fall vppon them in moste beastlie manner about 26. yeares agoe Also the Nunnerie of Nazareth in Collen Anno 1564. where the Nunnes in most filthie manner suffered the same illusion oftentimes in the presence and sight of manie But the matter in controuersie is whether Luther were begotten of a Deuill in deniall where of Master Chatke doth stand becuase it is impossible that although the Deuill should abuse the bodie of a woman yet that a man should be borne or gotten by such illusion which neither Augustine affirmeth nor Ludouicus Viues And if you dare auouch that the deuill can begette a childe as it seemeth you would draw your argument to prooue the probabilitie of Luthers conception by such deuillish abusement we will be bolde to saie that you are worthie to be whipt out of the Schooles of Philosophers Phisitians and Diuines if you dare not abide by it to what end do you oppose Saint Augustine and Ludouicus Viues against him Touching the matter of the thunderbolte you saie Master Charke denieth it stoutlie confidentlie and I knowe not how But in trueth Master Charke saith that it is of it selfe vncredible that you saie Luther was stroken with a thunderbolte which would haue taken awaie life or lefte a marke behinde it Neuertheles you williustifie your saying by testimonie of Malancthon who saith he suffeted great terrors that yeare in which he lost his com panion slaine I know not by what chaunce and by Luthers owne confession that he was called by terrours from heauen and for feare of death vowed to be a frier yet neither of these doe prooue either that he was ouerthrowne or striken with a thunderbolte The reportes of Lindane Prateolus and such like you cannot enforce vs to beleeue who sought by all meanes to deface both the person and doctrine of Luther But whether he were ouerthrowne by lightning as Prateolus saith or by feare seeing his fellow flaine by the same and so vowed a superstitious vow it is not greatlie materiall That the deuill cried out of his mouth we hold it still for a verie fable vntill you bring better proofe then the report of Luthers aduersaries Lindane and his fellowes Your ribaudrie termes of Luther coping with a nunne and your blasphemous scoffing ofhis lying with a nunne in the Lord I cōmit to the vengeance of him that is the instituter of holie matrimonie That many of the auncient fathers iudged it vnlawfull for vowed persons to marrie it is not denied of our parte but then it is to be vnderstood of them which maried not for necessitie but for wantones and for such as made vowes aduisedly not rashlie voluntarilie and not by compulsion For of them that could not conteine after they had vowed virginitie I haue shewed before the plaine testimonies of Saint Hierome and Epiphanius Now are we come to those nine articles of Doctrine with which you haue charged Luther how iustlie we shall see by by The first is that you affirmed Luther to teach that there is no sinne but incredulitie neither can a man damne him-selfe doe what mischeefe he can except he will refuse to beleeue To this Master Hanmer answereth that all sinnes proceade of the roote of incredulitie as al good workes from the roote of faith but this you will not vnderstand and bring in a contradiction of Master Charkes which doth pronounce that in wordes and matter you reporte an open vntruth And so you doe for any thing that you bring in your defense For Luther saieth not absolutely but in comparison that there is no sinne but vnbeleefe as our sauiour Christ sayth to the Pharisies if you were blinde you should
〈◊〉 15. articles of heresies which Andreas Zebedeus Preacher of Nion Ioannes Angelus preacher of Burtin both Zuinglians did take vpon them to prooue against Caluine at Berna Caluine being present vpon paine of burning whereupon proceeded the decree of those magistrates in the yeare 1555. April 3. that none of their dominions should communicate with Caluine at Geneua Pontac in anno 1555. The trueth is thatby instigation of that hereticall varlet Bolsec diuerse Preachers neere vnto Geneua quarreled against Caluins doctrine of gods eternall predestination charging him to affirme that god is the author of euil with such like impudent slaun ders whereupon Caluine by license of the Senate of Geneua so purged him-selfe before the Bernates that one Sabastian and Bolsec were banished their dominion And Andrew Zebedey not manie yeares after albeit he were then the most earnest accuser of Caluin in his death bed at Nouidune foure miles from Geneua before the chiefe men of that towne reuoked his errors detested all those his actes against Caluine and commaunded all his papers to be burned in his fight So that whatsoeuer was offered to be prooued nothing was prooued in deede to shew such dissent betweene Caluine and Zuinglius as Master Fulke might not iustlie denie anie dissent betweeneCaluine and Zuinglius in the substance ofChristian religion which was truelie taught by them both notwithstanding any cauills that quarrel-pickers or fault-finders haue deuised against Caluine The sixt section intituled Of the Iesuites doctrine MAster Charke being charged to haue falsified the Iesuites wordes defendeth his reporte by testimony of Donatus Gotuisus out of whose treatise con cerning that matter he professed at the first to rehearse their wordes And that it is lawfull for him to charge them vpon an other mans reporte he bringeth example of the Censurer who reporteth intollerable slaunders of Luther vpon the credit of Lindan Cocleus Hosius This replie the defender thinketh not sufficient because he bringeth three witnesses and Master Charke but one As though three false witnesses were of more credit then one that speaketh the trueth after it is tried and knowne For what Luther affirmeth his owne writinges do declare so that if a thousand Papistes would sweare against him that he hath written otherwise then he did his writinges being open to al mens vew the world might condemne them al of falsehood And if Gotuisus haue reported vntruelie the blame is his and not Master Charkes who citeth his reporte But in the end it shall appeare that Gotuisus hath done the Iesuites no wrong but either in their owne words or in their meaning truelie deliuered the substance of their doctrine howsoeuer they maie cauill to cloake the matter as the defender here compareth Master Charke to a bird taken by the legge for lying and seeking euerie hole to escape The first is that he chargeth the Censurer with foure lies in one sentence this the defender calleth most ridiculous accusations and asketh if men do not pitie the poore minister that stoopeth to so miserable helpes for his reliefe so he laugheth at his lies when he can not iustifie them and turneth the woll matter to a scoffe when he hath not one word to answer for him-selfe he think eth not the matter worthty he defense because the lies are madein no waighty causes And yet a man may iustlie note how looselie he writeth that hath no more regard of trueth the nto rappe out four lies in so short a compas of time and place What wil he do in maters of greater importance I neede not aske for you may see how often he hath beene taken in most impudent and shameles assertions such as maketh me often to thinke that he is no professor of diuinitie which hath anie grounded knowledge him-selfe but some cosening Copesmate chosen out for his impudencie and verbositie to broch such stuffe for vnlearned readers as the note gatherers were ashamed to put forth vnder their owne names But to returne to our starting holes the second saith sit defender is that Master Charke and his fellowes draw all matters against the state as Pasie the madde man dealt with his Master to defend him-selfe when he was neere a shrewd turne for some prankes plaid with his companions and here by name doctor Fulk is charged with this practize and with parasiticall and palpable flatterie who answereth for him-selfe in the treatise often named pag. 44. c. But in trueth Mastet Charke needed not any coards to draw matters against the state out of your writinges for you offer frankelie more then it would be your ease to answer if you durst shew your face And truelie he said that you charge the Magistrates and Bishoppes as if they were careles what doctrine is deliuered to the people when you ask what he and his fellowes dare auouch in their sermons speeches and discourses which they are sure shall neuer come to examination The third hole is by laying all his lies vpon one Gotuisus where his falsehood appeereth in that he did not in all his whole discourse so much as once name or quote his auther Gotuisus either in text or margent MasterCharke answered before that the authors name is quoted in the most bookes so it is to be seene in the margent ouer against those wordes of the text out of a treatise concerning this matter I haue enterlaced their owne wordes as they are to be found in the same booke Where the quotation is Donati Gotuisi lib. de fide Iesu Iesuitarum This being to be read ofeuetie childe in manie hundred copies of what metrall is his face made of that doth so confidentlie denie it because as he saieth beleeue him ifyou list he could neuer happen vpon anie copies that had him quoted And if somehad it he asketh why al had not as though he were ignorant that a fault or an omission escaped in a fewe copies maie be reformed or added in the rest when it is espied The other surmises that follow whie Master Charke should not quote his author Gotuisus are vaine seeing he hath quoted him as also the other charges of treacherie and malitious meaning for so much as there is no proofe of them but his bare word are as easilie denied by vs as they are by him affirmed If in the particulars that follow he be hable to bring anie substantiall matter to confirme anie one of them it maie be considered as the cause shall require and occasion be offered The 7. section entituled Of the nature and difinition of sinne THe first article of the Iesuites doctrine you say is this It is not sinne whatsoeuer is against the worde of God Here you charge Master Charke with guilefull dealing and that you take vpon you to shew by an example of a lawyer that should saie it is not treason whatsoeuer is against the Prince and common wealth which soundeth odiouslie as though nothing committed against the Prince and common wealth were treason
but much be confirmed in my faith thereby And yet all this while though the matter of pardons seemed to me to be more and more sound in it selfe and as true as the Spirit of God is true who was the author thereof in the Church yet I did not then consider of it as a thing of anie great importance but I conceiued it to be a small matter subiect to a certaine iugling in reason such as wicked men lightlie make their close and craftie entrance by to more mischiefe and further attemptes against the common faith of the Church I could not then conceiue which I after ward so plainlie and now more and more by the better surueie of the cause do perceiue that in this one falsehood there was couertlie conteined the verie pith of falsehood and improofe of the greatest matters which life and faith doth stand vpon FVLKE Your first motiues to this faith of yours were not more feeble then your confutations in the same were fond and foolish You did reade the storie of the alteration in religion that hath fallen in our time But of whose writing I praie you euen of such as were proctors for the Popes pedlarie ware or pillers of his pretensed power which was none other but according to the prouerb before mentioned aske my fellow if I be a thiefe If you had read the storie written indifferentlie without partialitie to either partie you might haue iudged better of the wholle matter Some perhapes are liuing that can testifie of the things that were done publike monuments are extant totestifie the same so much more intollerable is your arrogancie to iudge vpon the onelie sinister report of the aduersaries of Luther of holie and blessed memorie with all true Christians that onelie contention and couetousnes mooued him to condemne that which himselfe in conscience knew to be true and lawfull Like boldnes you shew in affirming that Luther was the first in all mans memorie sauing one 〈◊〉 that despised pardons forgetting the Waldenses that were long before Wiclefe and the Bohemians that were after him before Luther who condemned popish pardons as much as Wiclife or Luther For they condemned the Pope to be Antichrist as much as these did But now let vs examine the storie as it is knowne to be moste true in Saxonie where Luther first found fault with pardons When Pope Leo. 10. had sent abroad his pardons which were preached by Terelius a Dominike frier in such impudent manner that they seemed to serue for no end but the Popes couetousnes and the licentiousnes of the people Luther at that time hauing a zeale of God but not according to knowledge did mildelie and modestlie admonish the people of the deceites and abuses of pardons and pardoners which long before his time were reprooued in the Councells of Latrean and Vienna he complained to the Archbishoppe of Ments to the Bishop of Branderburg to the prouinciall of the Augustine friers and to the Pope him selfe in all thinges submitting him selfe to the Pope and Church of Rome so it were not against the holie scriptures When he could finde no equity nor redresse of these abuses which euen Surius the papist confesseth to haue bene iustlie complained of by him and vniustlie manteined or dissembled by the prelates he proceeded farther as God gaue him knowledge and at length compelled by intollerable iniurie and neglect of manifest trueth and reformation of lise did cast of the Anrichristian yoke of the Popes obedience Now whereas you charge him with contention and couetousnes the world your iudge before maie gather whether Luther if against his conscience he would haue set forth the Popes pardons especiallie at such time as the Pope had great neede of monie for warre against the Turkes might not haue made a more easie waie for him selfe to honour and ri hes then by setting himselfe against them But howsoeuer it was your fault faith was thus confirmed and that to such blasphemous boldnes that without authoritie of the holie scriptures the matter of pardons seemed to you as true as the spirit of God is true and hauing none other arguments to perswade you but that Papistes called them selues the Catholike Church and condemned Luther of manie heresies and write in their stories that Luther was mooued by contention and couetousnes to oppose him selfe against them you nothing doubted but that the spirit of God was author of popes pardons in the Church Beeing now resolued of the substance you were not yet perswaded of the quantitie but thinkeing the matter at the first was but small at length you came to a perfect knowledge how great and weightie it is and how it draweth with it all other waight in so much that the verie pith of the greatest matters of popish life and faith doe stand vpon it If then the pith of the greatest matters of poperie doe stand in Popes pardons and this pith hath no ground either in the scriptures or the fathers of the Church for a thousand yeares after Christ we maie the more easily see that the plant of poperie whereof pardons is the pith is not of Gods owne planting and therefore shal be plucked vp by the rootes ALLEN Thou wouldest not thinke I dare saie into what a summe and abridgment heresie hath by the Deuilles deuise and Luthers seruice drawne her selfe into For by this one false conclusion and for maintenance thereof this man and his posteritie haue taken awaie all penance and satisfaction for sinne haue spoiled the Church of her iust and and moste necessarie discipline controlled Gods owne holie vsage incorrection of his children haue entered into his secrets of the next world and there abandoned the place of his iustice and iudgement for sinnes that be remitted but not enough to his wisdome and will corrected haue robbed the holie Saints of all their merites that is to saie Christ of his giftes and grace whereby onelie they besosoneraigne and satisfactorie haue imbarred the bodie mysticall of Christ of the benefit which the wholl and euerie member thereof should receiue by the satisfaction and holie workes of the common head which is Christ haue broken the communion of Saints and the sweet felowship of all the holie members of Gods Church and the benefit which riseth frometh to other by mutuall participation of their good works and desertes and to be short haue by this one falsehood preached against pardons done iniurie to Christ to his Church to his Saints and to his sacraments and haue mightelie shaken the whole frame of Christian religion and doctrine I doe not here riot in wordes to ouerrunne my aduersaries in talke or to make more of the matter then it is but assuredlie without destruction of all these so necessarie articles of our faith there can no man defend Luthers doctrine against Indulgences I knowe he fumbled at the beginning otherwise then his fellowes and followers to disgrace the same sometimes by holding the pardons to be lawfull but not