of doctrine by many deliuered is sounde and good yet herein it fayleth that neither the Ministers thereof are accordyng to Gods worde proued elected called or ordained nor the function in such sorte so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought and is of necessitie required Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 34. 35. The proposition that these libellers woulde proue is that we in Englande are so farre from hauyng a Churche rightly reformed accordyng to the prescripte of Gods worde that as yet we are not come to the outwarde face of the same For proofe hereof they vse this argnment There be three out warde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen preaching of the worde purely ministryng of the Sacramentes sincerely and ecclesiasticall discipline whiche consisteth in Admonition and correction of faultes seuerely But thys Church of Englande for so in effecte they saye is voyde of all these Ergo it hath not so much as the externall face of a Church To proue that the worde of God is not preached truely they reason on thys sort The Ministers of the worde are not according to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned nor the function in suche sort so narrowly loked vnto as of right it ought is of necessitie required And therfore the word of God not truely preached Here All pointes of doctrine pure in this church thankes be to God they alleage not one article of Faith or poynte of doctrine nor one peece of any substance to be otherwise taughte and allowed of in thys Churche for not euery mannes folly is to be ascribed to the whole Churche than by the prescripte worde of God may be iustified neyther can they Nowe howe this conclusion followeth though the antecedent were true let those iudge that be learned The Ministers are not rightly proued and elected c. An vnapt r son Ergo the worde of God is not truely preached howe wicked so euer the man is howsoeuer he intrude hymselfe into the ministerie yet maye he preache the true worde of God For the truthe of the doctrine dothe not in anye respecte depende vpon the goodnesse or euilnesse of the man I praye you howe were you and some other of your adherentes called elected c But to come to the purpose They woulde proue that the Ministers of the worde in this Church of Englande are not accordyng to gods worde proued elected called or ordeyned What force and pithe is in their argumentes shall appeare in the seuerall answeres to euery one of them This one thing I muste let you vnderstande that these men seeke to deface thys Churche of Englande by the selfe same groundes that the Papistes doe althoughe by another kynde of proofe For what haue the Papistes else to saye but that we haue no Ministers bycause they be not rightly called and so consequently no worde no Sacramentes no discipline no Churche And certainely if it were well examyned I beleeue it woulde fall oute that the Authors of this Booke haue conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe if they coulde the state both of this Churche and Realme howsoeuer subtilly they seeme to detest Papistrie T. C. Page 23. Sect. 1 2 3. (a) Where do I 〈◊〉 that they say so Where in effecte doe they saye that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preachyng ▪ and ministring of the Sacramentes is it all one to saye that the worde in the Churche of Englande is not purely preached and the Sacramentes sincerely and discipline seuerely administred wyth thys that the Churche of Englande is voyde of all these Agayne where doe they reason thus that the worde of GOD is not truely preached bycause the Ministers are not ryghtly proued and elected when as they haue not one worde of true preachyng Is it all one to saye it is not purely preached and to saye it is not truely preached Saynte Paule to the A cauill Philipp is gladde that the Gospell be preached althoughe it be not purely but he woulde neuer haue been gladde that it should haue been preached falsely or not truely Againe he inueygheth not agaynst the false Apostles in the Churche of Corinthe bycause they preached the worde vntruely but bycause they vsyng paynted words and affected eloquence and makyng a great shewe of learnyng and tounges dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely so that you see that it is one thyng not to preache truely and an other thing not to preache purely and so you see their reason is not so euill for the want of a good calling maye gyue occasion to saye that the worde of God is not sincerely taughte bycause there is not a lawfull and ordinarie calling For althoughe for the substaunce of doctrine and the manner of handlyng of it they that Sainte Paule speaketh to of the Philipp dyd not faulte yet Saynt Paule sayth that they dyd not preache purely bycause they dyd it of contention or of enuie whyche was no faulte in the doctrine but in hym that taughte Therefore let men iudge howe iuste your wayghtes are that expounde not purely not truely and whyther thys be to confute other mens argumentes rather than to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes I knowe no Papistes reason thus that bycause we haue no Ministers therefore no worde no Sacrament no discipline no Churche For they denie that we haue the worde or Sacramentes bycause we holde not their worde and sacrifice but if there be that so reason yet these men that you charge haue neither any such antecedent or such a consequent For they neuer sayde that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet do euer conclude that there is no word no sacraments no discipline nor Churche For in saying that the face of the Churche dothe not so muche appeare for so the whole proces of their booke dothe declare that they meane when they say that we haue not scarce the face of the Churche they graunte that we haue the Churche of God but that for wante of those ornamentes whiche it shoulde haue and throughe certayne the deformed ragges of Poperie whiche it shoulde not haue the Churche dothe not appeare in hir natiue colours and so beautifull as it is meete she shoulde be prepared to so glorious a husbande as is the sonne of God Say you certaynely and do you beleeue that the authors of this booke are conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe this Churche and Realme Nowe certaynely I will neuer doe that iniurie vnto them as once to goe about to purge them of so manyfest slaunders nor neuer be broughte by the outrage of your speeches to proue that nooneday is not mydnight and therefore as for you I will set your conscience and you togither The reader I will desire not to thinke it a straunge thing for it is no other than hath happened to the seruaunts of God euen from those which haue professed the same religion whiche they dyd as it appeareth in the. 37. of Ieremie whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites
by that which I haue here already spoken Yet would I not haue any man to thinke that I condemne any churches where this gouernment is lawfully without daunger receyued onely I haue regarde to whole kingdomes especially this Realme where it cannot but be daungerous ¶ That there is no one certaine kinde of Gouernment in the Church which must of necessitie be perpetually obserued Chap. 4. I know it wil be obiected that y e ordinaūce of God must take place whatsoeuer incōueniēces follow that this kinde of gouernmēt is the ordinance of God therfore may not for any respect be omitted But I haue denied sufficiētly declared before y t this kind of Gouernment is no where in scripture cōmaūded that it neither is nor can be perpetuall And although I haue sufficiently proued this in one or two places before the contrary is yet vnproued as I had occasion to speake of it yet I trust it shall not be grieuous to the Reader if in a worde or two I here knit vp the matter First I affirme that there is not one sentence in the whole scripture wherevpō y e 1. No commaundement hereof in scripture perpetuitie or the necessitie of this kinde of gouernment may be grounded For the place in 1. Tim. 5. doth neither cōmaunde any such kinde of gouernment nor prescribe any forme or manner of it besides the place is doubtfull diuersly expounded and therfore no such perpetual rule can be gathered of it Moreouer y e Apostle only in that place sheweth that such as rule wel are worthie of double honour c. so that I maruaile how any man can of those wordes conclude either such a Seigniorie as now is Chap. 1. the. 1. Diuision imagined or any perpetuitie of it But of this place I haue spoken before Secondly it is wel know that the manner forme of gouernment vsed in the Apostles 2. The gouernment in the Apostles time cannot nowe be exercised time expressed in the scriptures neither is now nor cā or ought to be obserued either touching the persons or the functions for we haue neither Apostles Prophets workers of miracles giftes of healing diuersitie of tounges widowes or such like all which perteyned to the gouernment of the Church in the Apostles time and were partes of it as appeareth ▪ 1. Cor. 12. Eph. 4. 1. Tim. 5. And seing that the Church is not boūd to this forme so plainly expressed in these places of scripture I see not how you can binde it to the selfe same forme of gouernment vsed in the Apostles time Thirdly this worde gubernationes mentioned 1. Cor. 12. whervpon you would groūd 3. The worde gubernationes implieth not the Seigniorie but by coniecture your Seigniorie may as some learned men think signifie any kind of gouernment cuē the ciuil Magistrate Certayne it is that only by méere coniectures it is drawne to signifie this new deuised Seigniorie therfore cannot inferre any necessary cōclusiō Furthermore it is by the spirite of God placed among those functions y t be temporall and by the iudgement of all learned men ceased for thus the Apostle sayeth Deinde potestates deinde dona sanationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum now it were 1. Cor. 12. a very straunge matter that all the rest should be temporall and onely gubernationes perpetuall sure I am that the argument which so concludeth may easily be denied and by no probabilitie proued Fourthly we sée manifestly that in sundrie poynts the gouernment of y e Church 4. The Apostolicall gouernment hath of necessitie bene altered vsed in the Apostles time is and hath bene of necessitie altered that it neither may nor can be reuoked whereby it is playne that any one certayne forme or kinde of externall gouernment perpetually to be obserued is no where in the Scripture prescribed to the Churche but the charge thereof is left to the Christian Magistrate so that nothing be done contrarie to the woorde of God This is theopinion of the best writers neyther do I know any learned man of a 5. The generall opinion of the best writers Musculus loc Com. tit de Magist. contrarie iudgement M. Musculus speaking of those Seniors sayth that they were vsed in those Churches only that were destitute of Christian Magistrates which haue the chieftie and power c. not only in prophane but in diuine matters And after answering an obiection of 1. Cor. 6. he sayeth that we must needes distinguish betwene the state of the Church in those dayes and that whichis now I haue before declared M. Gualters iudgement of this matter in his Cōmentaries vpon the. 1. Cor. 5. And vpō the. 11. chapt Gualter hom 56. in 1. Cor. speaking generally of the gouernment of the Churche he sayeth thus VVherefore as concerning the doctrine of fayth and saluation we acknowledge no traditions of the Apostles but those whiche are conteyned in the creede c. But as concerning the externall forme of the Churche wee denie not that they haue taught euery where many thinges of the order of Ecclesiastical assemblies of the administration of Sacraments and of the whole gouernment of the Churche VVhereof bicause there cannot be one forme in euery place obserued they did in suche sorte appoynt them as they sawe to be requisite for the condition of any Citie or Countrie And it is certaine that the Churches in all ages haue vsed their libertie in these thinges therfore they are to iniurious which at this day eyther vnder the name of the traditiōs of the Apostles or for any other pretence go about to binde all Churches to one and the selfe same forme And vpon the. 12. chapter where he againe speaketh of the Seigniorie he Idem sayeth There be diuers which will needes institute Elders or an Ecclesiasticall enate according to the exāple of the old primitiue Churche which also should haue authoritie ouer the Magistrates thēselues if at any time they did not their dutie But it behoueth them first to shew that those their Seniors haue this power wherof Paule doth presētly speake which thing seing it doth by no meanes appeare and yet notwithstanding they deliuer vnto Satan whom they wil they do like as if some would go about to clense the leprous raise the dead worke other miracles bicause these things were vsually done in the primitiue Churche And y ◠which he speaketh touching this matter also vpō the. 14. chapt of y e same Epistle is not vnworthie y e noting whereof I haue before made mention That their ambition Idem is there reproued which go about to bring all churches to the forme of their discipline gouernmēt crie out that there is no discipline there where al things are not agreable to their traditiōs orders But these mē receiue a iust reward of their arrogācie when as they that come frō thē to other coūtries do go
foorth we mind by Gods grace to make it playner and shoulde do it better if it were as lawfull for vs as for our aduersaries to publish our mindes in print then should appeare what slender stuffe they bring that are so impudent by open writing to defend it And if it might please hir Maiestie by the aduise of you righte Honorable in this high Court of Parliament to heare vs by writing or otherwise to defend ourselues then such is the equitie of our cause that we would trust to find fauoure in hir Maiesties sight then those patched Pamphlets made by sodeine vpstarts and new conuerts should appeare in their colours and truth haue the victorie and God the glory if this cannot be obteyned we will by Gods grace addresse ourselues to defende his truthe by suffering and willingly lay our heads to the blocke And this shall be our peace to haue quiet consciences with our God whome we will abide for with all patience vntill he make our full deliuerance Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 243. And I will not spare my laboure from time to time to vtter my mind and conscience in these matters protesting that if by learning you can perswade me I will say agayne with Augustine Errare possum baereticus esse nolo All the rest of your stoute and suspitious braggs of your vndecent and vnseemely words I let passe and leaue them to be considered as notes of your spirit and modestie The Queenes Maiestie may assure hir selfe that she hath of learned men a number sufficient able by learning to mainteine both hir authoritie and lawes which hir Maiestie hath hitherto vsed and made for the further e of the Gospell and mainteyning of good order and peace in the Church The Lord of his infinite goodnesse long preserue hir and giue vs thankfull hearts to God for hir T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 1. Unto the next section I haue answered in the treatise of the apparell And vnto the next after in the treatise which declareth to whome it doth appert ine to make ceremonies and orders of the Church And vnto the section contayned in the. 243. page I say that M. Doctor being asked of oynions auswereth of garlike For the Authours of the Admonition desiring that it might be as lawfull for them to published by print their minds or to be heard dispute or that their mind put in writing might be openly debated M. Doctor answereth with Augustines sentence which he hath made the fote of his song nothing to the purpose of that which they says the performance of which promise we will notwithstanding wait for Io. Whitgifte Why what haue they sayd there worth the answering that I haue not directly answered vnto they boast of their writing and of their disputing And I tell them that I will not spare my laboure from time to time to vtter my mind and consciēce in these matters also What other answer would you haue me to make vnto them The saying of S. Augustine commeth in due place you call it the foote of my song and I am very well content you should so do for I intend to sing that song so long as I liue neither can any mislike it but such as either be or intende to be herelikes I purpose God willing to performe all the promises that I haue made and when I shrinke from any of them let me heare of it Admonition For the Articles concerning the substance of doctrine vsing a godly interpretation in a poynte Doctrine The right gouernment of the Churche cannot be separated from the doctrine 1. Tim. 3. 2. or two which are eyther too sparely or else too darkely set downe we were and are ready according to duetie to subscribe vnto them We would to God that as they hold the substance togither with vs and we with them so they would not denie the effect and vertue thereof then shoulde not our words and works be deuorced but Christ should be suffered to reigne a true ministerie according to the word instituted discipline exercised Sacraments purely and sincerely ministred thys is that we striue for and about which we haue suffered k 1. Pet. 3. 17 not as euill doers but for resisting poperie and refusing to be stoong with the tayle of Antichristian infection ready l 2. Pet. 3. 15. to render a reason of our fayth to the stopping of all our enimies mouthes We therefore for the Churche of Gods sake whiche ought to be most deare vnto you beseech you for our soueraignes sake vpon whome we pray that all Gods blessing may be poured abundantly we pray you to consider of these abuses to reforme Gods Church according to your duties and callings that as with one mouth we confesse one Christe so with one consent this reigne of Antichriste may be turned out headlong from amongst vs and Christ our Lord may reygne by hys word ouer vs. So your seates shal be established and setled in great assurance you shall not neede to feare your enimies for God wyll turne away his threatned plagues from vs which he in mercy do for his Christes sake Amen Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 245. 246. It is very well that you so like of the articles but yet it pleaseth Of subscribing to the Articles you not to subscribe vnto them you say bycause of a point or two which are eyther too sparely or else too darkly set downe but indeede your meaning is to subscribe to nothing which by authoritie you are required to do and that argueth an arrogant mind and a disposition that loueth alway to be singular You note in the margente that the right gouernmēt of the Church The argumēt of the aduersary retorted agaynst himselfe can neuer be separated from the doctrine but by your owne confessiō we haue the doctrine Ergo of necessitie we also haue the righte gouernment Here in few words you haue cast downe whatsoeuer you seemed before to build so do commonly vnskilfull builders I would to God that for so much as contrary to your former assertion you now confesse that we haue the veritie of doctrine you could be content to say downe great heart and submit your selues to the Queenes Maiestie and hir lawes according to your dutie then no doubt Christ should without resistance reigne in this Church and the frutes of the Gospell would much more appeare You bragge much of your suffering you are little beholding to Persecution pretended wher none is your neighbours when you are thus constreyned to prayse your selues But I pray you whether dothe he persecute that modestly and soberly defendeth the truthe or he that vnlawfully reuengeth hymselfe with rayling and backbi ing you loue very well to haue the worlde knowe howe greatly you be persecuted and therefore if one of you here in Cambridge be punished but twenty pence for his open contempte of statutes to the whiche he is sworne in post hast it is carried into all quarters and especially to London
where greate complaynte is made of this greeuous persecution when as you and your disciples cease not as I sayde moste falsely and slaunderously to reporte of suche as executing good lawes discharge theyr conscience to God and their duetie towardes the Prince We therefore exhorte you if there be any feare of God before your eyes any reuerence towards the Prince any desire of promoting the Gospell any louing affection towardes the Church of Christe to submit your selues according to your dueties to godly orders to leaue off contentiousnesse to ioyne with vs in preaching of the word of God and beating downe the kingdome of Antichriste that thys your diuision procure not Gods wrath to be poured vpon vs. T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 2. Here M. Doctor contrary to the pretestation of the authours of the Admonition whiche declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe saithe that therefore they will not subscribe bycause they are required by lawfull authoritie which how both presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whiche hath bin declared And where M. Doctor would vpon y ◠marginal note pr y t we haue good discipline bycause we haue good doctrine ther vpon doth wonderfully triumph he playeth as he of whome it is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is hauing gotten nothing holdeth it fast For can M. Doctor be so ignorant that this manner of speach doctrine and discipline cannot be s uered is vsed of that that they ought not to be seuered ▪ when as we say following S. Paule that we can do nothing against the truth do we not meane that we ought to do nothing or can do nothing lawfully against it And do not all men know when we say that a man cannot be separated from his wife but for the cause of A ultery that we meane he ought not or he cannot lawfully Therefore this is as all men may see a meere cauill and triumph ouer his owne shadow There is no bragge of suffering made by the authours of the Admonition The modestie wherwith he hath defended this cause cannot be hidden That he would haue other men punished for well doing when he is not content that the open wrongs which he doth should be once spoken of I haue shewed how vnreasonable it is Io. Whitgifte I speake of their denying to subscribe to the Articles concerning the substance of doctrine which they confesse to be sound vsing a godly interpretation in a poynt or two c. what other abuses so euer there be in the booke of common prayer or in the Church yet that is no sufficient cause why they shoulde refuse to subscribe to the truth of doctrine professed in this Church and conteyned in those Articles Wherefore séeing they confesse them to be sound and yet denie to subscribe who can otherwise iudge of them than I haue signifyed in my Answer I acknowledge my selfe to be ignorante that in this and suche like phrases thys Can is not taken for ought if it be spoken simply word Can is taken for ought When Saint Paule saithe that we can do nothing againste the truth he meaneth simply as he speaketh and doth not there vse Can for ought For indeede we can do nothing against the truth though we do the worst we can It is no vsuall phrase but an vnproper kind of speach to say that a man cannot do a thing when he should say that he ought not to do it except he adde some thing as he cannot do it lawfully or well or orderly and such like Wherefore my dulnesse is such that I cannot vnderstande suche darke speaches vntill they be interpreted and yet whether they woulde so interprete themselues or no it maye be doubted If they bragge not of persecution wherevnto tende these wordes of theirs this is that we striue for about which we haue suffered not as euill doers c. and quote in the margent to proue it 1. Pet. 3. as though they were persecuted by infidels How immodest soeuer I am in defending this cause yet if it be compared eyther to Schismatiks deserue to be sharply reproued their passing bitternesse or to your spitefull speaches and vnséemely tauntes and iestes I shall appeare tootoo simple and although I must néedes say thus much that disturbers of the common peace of the Churche and Schismatikes deserue to be with sharpe wordes reproued yet haue not I vsed that sharpenesse and bitternesse whyche diuerse learned menne bothe olde and newe haue vsed in the lyke case If I haue done any man wrong let him come foorth and proue it and I will render vnto him quadruple T. C. Pag. 172. Sect. 3. Finally as you exhort vs to submitte ourselues to good order whiche haue bin alwayes and yet are ready to do to leaue to be contentious which neuer yet began to ioyne with you in preaching the word of God which haue stopped our mouthes and will not suffer vs to preache so we exhort you in Gods behalfe and as you will once answer it before the iust iudge that you will not willingly shut your eyes against the truth that if the Lord vouchsafe to open it vnto you you kicke not against it Wherefore we pray you to take heede that neither the desire of keeping your wealth and honoure which you are in nor the hope which you may haue of any further promotion nor yet the care of keeping your estimation by mainteining that whiche you haue once set downe nor the sleighey suggestion of craftie and wyly Papists do driue you to stumble against this truth of God which toucheth the gouernment of his Church and the purging of those corruptions whiche are amongst vs knowing that you cannot stumble vpon the word of God but foorthwith you runne yourselfe against Christ which is the rocke And you know that he will not giue back but breaketh all to fitters whatsoeuer that rusheth against him Io. Whitgifte You do not submit your selues to the order of the Church which is a good and decent order you haue filled the Churche with maruellous contentions and haue strangely deuided euen such as professe the Gospell your mouthes are not stopped but through your owne procuring I do not withstand that which you vntruly call the truth for any such cause as you surmise God who seeth my hart knoweth but bycause I sée these your deuises to be set downe by you without any sufficient warrant in the word of God agaynste the practise and order of the primitiue Churche tending also to daungerous errours and meere confusion both of the Church and of the common wealth T. C. Page 172. Sect. vlt. And if the matter herein alleadged do not satisfye you then I desire euen before the same GOD that you confute it not by passing ouer thynges whyche you can not answer or by stauing both the words and the meaning of the booke and taking your owne fansie to confuce or by wrougling
is especiall occasion to moue men to prayer to vnitie and to the embracing of the substance of Religion which by all meanes is sought to be ouerthrowne Where preache you them euen where they doe least good and most harme in places where the Gospell hath bene alreadie planted yea and often times in secrete conuenticles and corners which the truth neuer séeketh but vpon extreme necessitie and before whom preache you not before such as haue authoritie to redresse but before the common people who although some of them be godly and sober yet for the most parte be greatly delighted with nouelties loue such scholemaisters as teach libertie and continually inueigh against superiors All this beyng true as you can not denie it to be true there is no cause why you shoulde be offended with the setting downe of the first article To preach the Gospell is a thing necessary vnto saluation to preach that circumcision and suche like ceremonies be not matters of saluation is a necessarie doctrine of the substance of Religiō Zuinglius and Oecolampadius and other differed frō Luther in some matters of substance and yet did they orderly and lawfully with the consent of their Magistrates procéed in these matters wherfore these examples helpe you nothing for the matters you contend for be not of y e same nature neither do you procéede in like maner The same answere may be made to all other like examples that you can vse in these matters But bicause I will not leane onely to mine owne iudgement in this case let it not gréeue you if I set downe M. Zuinglius opinion touching the same who in his booke called Ecclesiastes speaking against the Anabaptistes saith on this sort If they were sent of God endued with the spirit of God they woulde haue Zuingl in ecclesi construed in the best parte these externall things which be not as yet rightly reformed they woulde haue become all things to all men that they might haue wonne all to Christ. c. M. Caluine also in his booke against y e Anabaptists saith that whē vnder the colour of a Caluin aduersus Anabap. zeale of perfectiō we cā beare no imperfectiō either in the body or in the members of the Church it is the deuill which puffeth vs vp with pride and seduceth vs with hypocrisie to make vs forsake Christs flocke Whatsoeuer you alleage for the saluing of your contentious doctrine out of y e. 10. of T. C. vseth the same defense for his contentiō that the Anabaptists do Mathew verse 34. y e same do y e Anabaptists vse for their excuse also as Zuinglius testifieth in his Ecclesiastes his words be these Their doctrine bringeth forth nothing but contention tumults in the defense wherof they alleage that Christ said I came not to sende peace but the sword to whō we answere that this sword hath no place among the faithful Zuing. in ec for it diuideth the faithfull frō infidels but they make contentiō and brawling among the The sworde which Christ sendeth is not betwene the faithfull faithfull that for externall things Hetherto Zuinglius which is a sufficiēt answere to you also vsing y e same excuse mouing cōtentiōs in like maner matters The same sense haue the words of Christ. Luc. 12. ver 49. for the Gospel is a sword that deuideth the faithfull from infidels but not the faithfull among themselues It is the greatest offence to the simple and most worthy of Christian teares and weeping that men shoulde cloake and colour their arrogancie contention and errors with a false pretence of godly zeale for the purytie of fayth the sinceritie of the Gospell and the reformation Bucer in 4. Eph. of the Churche as Maister Bucer in 4. ad Ephe. saith that somedyd euen in his time What you thinke and teach of the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate will appeare hereafter more plainely in some other partes of your booke your additions to your protestation of allowing Magistrates and of your obedience to them may colour your abridging of their authoritie For if they commaunde you any thing wherein you intende not to obey you may say they commaunded not that in the Lorde and that it is against your conscience These exceptiōs or excuses be very general may with you who in all things pretende the worde of God and conscience strayghten the authoritie of the Magistrate to your owne purpose But hereof we shall something more playnely although not fully vnderstande your opinion hereafter The same Protestation that you make it may appeare that the Anabaptistes made also in the beginning as Zuinglius declareth in his Ecclesiastes I. VV. The seconde Article pag. 2. Sect. 2. Secondly they bitterly inueyed agaynst ministers and preachers of the Gospell saying that they were not ordinarily and lawfully Bul. fol. 1. 〈◊〉 18. 87. 102. 244. called to the ministerie bicause they were called by the Magistrate and not by the people that they preached not the Gospel truly that they were Scribes and Pharisies that they had not those thinges which Paule required in a minister 1. Tim. 3. That they did not themselues those things which they taughte vnto other that they had stipends and laboured not and therefore were ministers of the belly that they could not teache truly bicause they had great liuings and liued wealthily and pleasantly that they vsed not their authoritie in excommunication that they attributed to muche vnto the Magistrate T. C. pag. 3. 4. There was neuer Heretike so abhominable but that he had some truthe to cloke his falshode should his vntruthes and blasphemies driue vs from the possession of that whiche he holdeth truely no not the Diuell him selfe saying that God had giuen his Angels charge ouer his can thereby wring this sentence from vs why we should not bothe beleeue it and speake it beeing a necessarie truthe to beleeue and speake You may as well say we are Anabaptistes bycause we say there is but one God as they dyd one Christ as they dyd c. And heere I will giue the Reader a taste of your Logike that you make so muche of in your booke * This is your owne Logike these be arguments of your owne framing The Anabaptistes say that the Churches should choose their ministers and not the Magistrate and you say so therfore you are Anabaptistes or in the way to Anabaptisme The Anabaptistes complayned that the Christians vsed not their authoritie in excommunication and so do you complayne therefore you are Anabaptistes or in the way to them I will not lay to your charge that you haue not learned Aristotles Priorums which sayth it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as often as the meane in any syllogisme is consequent to bothe the extremes But haue you not learned that which Seton or any other halfepeny Logyke telleth you that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the seconde figure And of thys sorte are
vnfashioned matter of building of the Churche were vttered in them and those things were lefte out that should pertaine to the forme and fashion of it or as if there were in the Scriptures (*) T. C. accoun th externall gouemm t more precious thaÌ„ the doctrine of faith only to couer hir nakednesse not also chaines and bracelets and rings and other iewels to adorne hir and set hir out or that to conclude there were sufficient to quench hir thirste and kill hir hunger but not to minister vnto hir a more liberall and as it were a móre delicious and daintie dyet These things you seen e to say when you saye that atters necessarie to saluation and of faith are contayned in the Scripture specially when you oppose these things to ceremonies order discipline and gouernment And if you meane by matters of faith and necessarie to saluation those without whiche a man can not be saued then the (*) Note this ssertion doctrine that teacheth there is no free will or prayer for the dead is not within your compasse For I dou t not but diuers of the fathers of the Greeke Church which were great patrons of free will are saued (a) He that dyeth in the opinion of free will holdeth not this foundation holding the foundation of the faith which is Christ. The like might be sayde of a number of other as necessarie doctrines as that wherein men being misseled haue notwithstaÌ„ding bene saued Therfore seing that the point of the question l eth chiefly in this distinction it had bene good that you had spoken (b) Why then aue not you done it speaking so daungerously more certainely and properly of these things Io. Whitgifte When you say That it i no small in urie that I doe vnto the worde of God to pinne it vp in so narrowe roome c. You doe but enlarge the volume of your booke with bare words that myght well be spared I gy e that perfection to the worde of God which the worde it selfe requireth and all godly learned men consent vnto and muche more doe I attribute vnto it than you do in saying that many things are both commaunded and forbyddeÌ„ of the which there is no expresse mentioÌ„ in the word which are as necessary to be followed Pag. 13. Sect. 2. or auoyded as those whereof expresse mention is made which I take to derogate much from the perfection of the Scriptures to be méere Papisticall and quite contrarie to that that you doe pretende I also confesse that in all other things we muste so be directed by the Scriptures that we doe nothing contrarie to the true sense and meaning of them no not in externall and in the leaste matters neyther doe I otherwise write teache or speake of the perfec ion and authoritie of the Scriptures than all other leane men and the reformed Churches teache write and beléeue wherefore I passe ouer your words and come to your reasons If I meane say you by matters of fayth and necessarie to saluation those without the which a man can not be saued c. I can not but muse what you meane willingly to pretende ignorance Is this thinke you a sounde argument Diuers of the fathers of the Greeke Churche which were greate patrons of free will are saued holding the foundation of the fayth which is Christ Ergo The doctrine of free will is not a doctrine of saluation or damnation you myght as well say that many in the popishe Church which beléeued that the Pope was supreme head of the Church that the Masse was a sacrifice for the quicke the dead and such like poynts of pâ—pisticall Religion be saued Ergo these are no matters of saluatioÌ„ or damnatioÌ„ Surely by the same reason al other kinde of sinnes almost The mercie of God infinite might be without this compasse But it may please you to vnderstand that the mercie of God in his sonne Iesus Christ is infinite and that he pardoneth at his good will and pleasure not onely misbeliefe procéeding of ignorance but wilfull erreurs and sinnes also thoughe they be of themselues damnable he also altereth the minde of man euen in a moment and therefore as hys mercyes be infinite so be his iudgementes vnsearchable Wherefore this your reason is vttered without due consideration The doctrine of free wyll bycause it is an enimye to the grace of God must néedes be of it selfe a damnable doctrine yet doth it not preiudice the mercie of God nor finally shut oute repentance the gifte of God And full well doe you knowe that he can not hold y e foundation of faith that is Christ perfectly which is a mayntayner of free will But leauiug the weight of such kind of argumentes to the consideration of the Reader I come to the purpose When I saye that an argument holdeth negatiuely from the authoritie of the Scripture in matters of fayth and necessarie to saluation my meaning is manifest which is this that the Scriptures doe containe all things necessarie to be beléeued and to saluation and therfore whatsoeuer is taught vnto vs as an article of fayth and necessarie to saluation not contained in the scriptures that same to be false and vntrue and therefore to be reiected As for example the doctrine of fre wyll of Purgatorie of praying for the dead of praying to Saint of the sacrifice of the Masse c. are not contayned in the Scriptures and therefore they be not doctrines to be beléeued nor necessarie to saluation but damnable d ctrynes of themselues and repugnant to saluation Surely I thinke in this poynte that you neither vnderstande me nor your selfe my meaning is plaine that nothing is necessarie to saluation which is not plainely contained in the Scriptures Chap. 1. the fourth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 21. Sect. 4. But that no ceremonie order discipline or kinde of gouernmente What things the Scripture hath not expressed but left to the ordering of the Church may be in the Churche except the same be expressed in the worde of God is a great absurditie and breedeth many inconueniences T. C. Pag. 14. Sect. 3. But to the ende it may appeare that this speach of yours doth some thing take vp and shrinke the armes of the Scripture which otherwise are so long large I say that the word of God containeth the direction of all things pertaining to the Church yea of whatsoeuer things can fall into any part of mans lyfe For so Salomon saith in the seconde chapter of the Prouerbes My sonne if thou receiue my words and hide my preceptes in the. c. then thou shalt vnderstande iustice and The Scripture wrested by T. C. iudgement and equitie and euery good way S. Paule sayth that whither we eate or drinke or 1. Cor. 10. what soeuer we do we must doe it to the glory of God But no man can glorifie God in any thing but by obedience and there is no
order Wherby it should seeme that they haue learned to allowe of a prescript order of prayers but not of that prescript order which is in the booke of publike prayers This is no dallying neyther yet inconstancie For the. 3. of Mat. ver 12. is placed 3. of Mat. ver 1. to proue that in the olde time the word was preached before the sacramēts were ministred the place now alleaged is this In those dayes Iohn the Baptist came and preached in the vvildernesse of Iudea This proueth that Iohnpreached but it proueth not that whensoeuer Iohn did baptise then he did preache Oueragaynst these words the Nicene creede was not read in their cōmunion A protestation by the way is written in the margent Note that we condemne not the doctrine conteyned therein If you condemne not the doctrine therin what do you then cōdemne or why mislike you the cōmunion bicause that creede conteyning true doctrine is read at the celebration therof It is well that you make this protestation if you meane good fayth Here is also added the. 42. ver Act. 2. to proue that then the sacrament was ministred with cōmon vsual bread which place I haue answered before in answering to the. 46. verse of that chapter Where as before it was thus interrogatories ministred to the Infant Godfathers They allowe godfathers godmothers at the last and Godmothers brought in by Higinus nowe Godfathers and Godmothers brought it by Higinus is left out It is happy that you are sosoone persuaded to allow of godfathers and godmothers I perceyue you tooke vpon you to set downe a platforme of a Church before you had well considered of it Fol. 4. For some one of the congregation is nowe some of the congregation wherby they seeme to allowe mo godfathers than one whiche they dyd not before For the. 14. of the Acts verse 4. is noted the. 15. of the Acts vers 4. to proue that the office of Seniors was to gouerne the Church with the rest of the ministers but without reason For it is onely there written that at Ierusalem there was Apostles and Elders that Paule and Barnabas declared vnto them what things God had done by them I denie not the thing it selfe whereof I haue sufficiently spoken before but the argument These Seniors then bicause their charge was not ouer muche did execute their office in their owne persons Nowe these words bicause their charge was not ouer much be lefte out Wherfore they haue left them out I knowe not Fol. 5. They haue lefte out Doctors three tymes in this leafe whiche before they recited with Chauncelors Archdeacons Officials Commissaries Why Doctors of 〈◊〉 be left out Proctors Belyke they haue remembred that this worde Doctor is founde in the newe Testament and especially Doctor of lawe To proue equalitie of ministers they haue added Phil. 1. verse 1. 1. Thes. 1. 1. The first place is this Paule and Timotheus the seruaunts of Iesus Christ to all Saincts in Christ Iesus that are at Philippi vvith the Bishops and Deacons The seconde is this Paule and Syluanus and Timotheus vnto the Church of the Thessalonians c. Truely I knowe not howe to conclude of those places an equalitie of all ministers I would to God you would set downe your places and frame your arguments yourselues Fol. 6. They haue forgotten to quote Heb. 6. 1. and haue left out the body and Tayle of Antichrist braunche of Antichrist and for the same haue put in the tayle But these are but trifles and very slender corrections Io. Whitgifte To all these there is nothing sayde belike the Authors of the Admonition muste answere for them selues or else prouide another Proctor Ansvvere to the additions c. of the seconde parte of the admonition Fol. 2. For the first of Tim. 3. verse 3. nowe they haue quoted 1. Tim. 3. verse 6. agaynst reading ministers Where S. Paul would not haue a minister to be a yong scholer but he speaketh nothing agaynst reading T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. 2. Unto the seconde leafe of the addition of the second parte of the Admonition M. Doctor sayth that bicause the. 3. to Titus maketh not agaynst reading therfore it maketh not agaynst reading ministers that is ministers that can doe nothing but reade Io. Whitgifte It is in the. 1. Tim. 3. and it maketh agaynst vnlearned Ministers not agaynst the reading of Ministers for he may be a reading Minister and yet learned Ansvvere to the Detractions c. It was before reading is not feeding nowe it is thus amended for Correction of a sodeyne bare reading of the worde and single seruice saying is bare feeding whereby they now confesse that reading is feeding although it be as they say but bare feeding We were in good case if the platforme of our Church depended vpon these men which alter their iudgements so sodenly It is a true saying Conueniet nulli qui secum dissidet ipse Hovve can he agree vvith other that doth not agree vvith himselfe T. C. Pag. 173. Sect. vlt. And where as he would picke out a contradiction in the wordes of the Admonition bicause they say bare reading is but bare feeding the discord is in his cares not in their wordes For when they sayde it was no feeding they ment such feeding as could saue them and so in calling it bare feeding they note that there is not (*) This is anec m and contrarie to that which ou haue pa. 158. 〈◊〉 15. c. inaugh in that to keepe them from famishment And indeede vnlesse the Lord worke miraculously and extraordinarily which is not to be looked for of vs the bare reading of the scriptures without the preaching cannot deliuer so much as one poore shepe frō destruction and from the wolfe And if some haue bene conuerted wonderfully yet M. D. should remember that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is the water doth not alway beare yron Io. Whitgifte Reading is not feeding and reading is beare feeding be both vntruthes and derogate from the Maiestie and dignitie of the worde of God but yet in these speaches there is contrarietie for bare féeding is féeding What they ment by not feeding their words following doe declare for say they it is as euill as playing vpon a stage and worse to c. The Replier falleth into contrarietie whiles he seeketh to cleare the Admonition of it whereof I haue spoken before But whilst-you go about to excuse them of contrarietie you fall into it your selfe for page 158. of your booke comparing the reading of the Scriptures with reading of Homilies yeu say that the worde of God is also plaine and easie to be vnderstanded such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiots and to the simple c. And now you say that there is not enough in the reading of the scrptures to keepe the people from famishment c. the which how farre it differeth from your former words no man is so blind Pag.
doings and therfore they haue corrected these assertiōs in their second edition of the first Admonition on this sorte Then election was made by the elders with the cōmon cōsent of the whole church Surely these men be past shame else woulde they not denie their owne written assertions T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6. And whereas he sayth that it is al one to say that the election of the mynister must be made by (*) A manifest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you leaue out this worde whole the church to say It must be made by the people it is a great ouersight to make the parte whole all one seing y e people be but one part of the church the mynister and the other gouernours are albeit not the greatest yet the principallest part I graunt that sometimes a parte is taken for the whole and so we do call sometimes the gouernours of the churche the churche and sometimes the people But where the question is of the proprietie of these speaches the Church and the people there all men that haue any iudgement can easily put a difference Io. Whitgifte What I haue sayde how truly you haue reported my wordes how aptly you haue replied to my Answere euen the very simple Reader may easily vnderstand therfore for answers to this I shall only desire him to compare our wordes togither and then it shall easily appeare how you haue falsified my wordes for wheras I gather out of these wordes of y e Admonition Election was made by the common cōsent of the whole Church therfore their collection is true which say that they would haue the mynisters to be called allowed placed by the people you either of purpose or by ouersight which is very vsuall with you haue left out y e worde whole make as though I should say that it is all one to say that the election must be made by the church to say it must be made by the people should confound the people the church the part with the whole which is a manifest vntruth But by y e way it is to be noted y t you séeme to separate the people frō the election of mynisters for you will not haue the worde Church in the Admonition to cōprehend the people else why haue you these words when the question is of the proprietie of these speaches the church and the people and surely it may séeme that this is their meaning bicause in their second edition they say the election was made by the Elders with the common consent of the people so that the election should be made by the Elders and the people only should cōsent to the election which is contrary to the rest of your assertion Ansvvere to certayne Articles c. 4. Lin. 9. They hold that a Bishop at no hande hath authoritie to ordeyne ministers This Article you confesse to be truely gathered but now you make this glosse not alone and yet in their Admonition it is in flat termes that the ordering of mynisters doth at no hand apperteyne to Bishops 6. Lin. 28. They will haue the mynisters at theyr owne pleasure to preach without lycence This is true by your owne cōfessiō for you will haue no other licēce but your calling to the ministerie which must be as you say by the congregation Here you shut out both the Princes licence and the Bishops 7. Lin. 13. fol. 17. Lin. 6. pag. 1. Whatsoeuer is set down in this Article is manifestly affirmed in the Admonitiō your answere to it is friuolous and nothing to the purpose For in the firste parte of the Admonition ▪ Fol. 2. pag. 1. These be the wordes In those dayes knowne by voice learning doctrine now they must be discerned frō other by Popish Antichristian apparell as cap gowne tippet c. And in the second part speaking of the apparell prescribed to ministers they say on this sort There is no order in it but confusion no comelinesse but deformitie no obediēce but disobediēce both against God and the Prince Are you not then ashamed to say that this Article They will haue the mynister discerned from others by no kinde of apparell and the apparell appoynted they terme Antichristian and the apparell appoynted by the Prince disobedience agaynst the Prince is falsified Fol. 4. Lin. 1. Pag. 2. They will haue all Archbishops Bishops Archdeacons c. together with their offices iurisdictions courtes and liuings cleane taken away and with speede remoued You say that this is falsified in parte bicause there is left out Lords grace Iustice of peace and Quorum c. Surely the Article is truly collected in euery poynt and playnely affirmed in the. 2. leafe of the first parte of that Admonition As for your gibing wordes that follow they be but winde I warrāt you the cōfutatiō will abide the light the Author will shew his face which you are ashamed to do 9. Lin. 9. The Article is truly collected looke in the first parte of that Admonition Fol. 2. Pag. 2. Fol. 3. And in the second part of that Admonition Fol. 1. pag. 2. Fol. 5. pag. 1. 17. Lin. 12. The collection is true for their wordes be these They simply as they receyued it from the Lorde we sinfuily mixed with mans inuentions and deuises And therfore you vntruly say that it is falsified 19. Lin. 16. They will haue no Godfathers nor Godmothers you say that this Article is also vtterly falsified what meane you so to forget your sslfe Is it not thus writtē in the first part of y e first Admonitiō o. 3 pa. 2. Godfathers and Godmothers once disallowed after recāted And as for Baptisme it was enough with them if they had water and the partie to be baptised fayth and the mynister to preache the worde and mynister the Sacramentes Nowe we must haue surplesse deuised by Pope Adrian Interrogatories mynistred to the infant Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus c Howe say you are not Godfathers and Godmothers here disallowed wherefore be they else in this place recyted or why are they here ascribed to Pope Higinus will you now allow any thing in the Church inuented by the Pope In deede in the second edition of this firste Admonition these wordes Godfathers and Godmothers brought in by Higinus be cleane left out as I haue before noted Wherfore eyther you haue not redde the diuersitie of their editions or else you are very impudent 22. Fol 8. in fine I maruell why you say that this collection is falsified Looke Fol. vlt. pag 2. of the first part of the Admonition T. C. Pag. 175. Sect. 6. The rest of those articles are answered in the discourse of the booke Besides that the fanlts which are found with the vntrue gathering of them are not taken away by M. Doctor but only in confident bould asseuerations And if I should say any thing I should but repeat their wordes Io. Whitgifte The iudgement hereof