teaching these thinges which haue been accounted and are in truth popish or Lutheran errors viz touching generall grace the death of Christ for every particular person against perticular election reprobation for images in Churches Exceter both for remembrance of history and also for devotion touching the māner of Christs presence in the supper of the Lord That the Pope is not the Antichrist which is the next step to say that he is Christs vicar wherby they hinder what they may the zeale of Christian Princes from executing that against him in generall and against his members in perticular which the word partly foretelleth and partely commaundeth to be done concernnyng also the necessity of Baptisme touching auricular confession for ignorance according to the popish saying that ignorance is the mother of devotion that it is not necessary for the people to haue much knowledge and that therefore not much preaching but that it is sufficiēt if they can say the Lords prayer the ten cōmaundements and the articles of faith which is directly contrary to the scriptures Ioh. 6.69 Ephe 4.13 Philip. 1.9 3.7.8 Colos 3.16 Ephes 5.17 2 Pet. 3.18 Who can lay any such poyntes to us or to any of vs This poynt is not lightly to be regarded yea it is of great moment For the Apostle describeth schismatikes not to be such as make division onely but he addeth contrary to the doctrine which they had learned Rom. 16.17 Yea in the very next verse he describeth them further saying They that are such serue not the Lord Iesus Christ but their owne bellyes and with faire speeches and flattering diceaue the hearts of the simple Doe we so Nay rather we labour onely for the ordinances which the Apostle hath taught vs. In this respect we serue not our owne bellyes but rather for those ordinances sake and to serue the Lord Iesus by them and according unto them we depriue our owne bellyes of that which otherwise they might haue neither doe we vse faire speeches and flattering but by playne dealing for those ordinances of Christ Iesus we procure the displeasure of all men against us As therefore this place maketh for vs and evidently sheweth vs to be no schismatikes so likewise it doth as plainely proue them to be schismatikes that make division for humane inventions either in doctrine or otherwise in practise in the worship of God contrary to those things which they haue learned from the Apostle who also therein serue not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellyes vsing faire wordes and flattering in that behalfe to deceiue not onely the simple but also if it be possible them that are wise Agayne haue we made any departure from the Church We are deprived of our Ministery and so thrust out of our lyvinges perforce against our wills as any man leaveth that which is violently taken away but though we be thus put from our ministery and lyvinges by our Prelats yet we do not forsake the cōmunion of the Church The cause also why we are put out is not for respect of our selues but for feare of sinnyng against God and of aggravating the burden of our owne conscience therby We disturb not the sincere profession of the gospell and worke of the ministery but in all humilitie and with the wordes of sobriety we condemne the corruptions of our profession and of the ministery most duetifully and by all lawfull meanes and no other desiring both to be reformed according to Gods word So in like manner we desire to be eased of those cloggs which hinder both us in the worke of the ministery and also the people so that they neither doe neither can so edifie themselues in their most holy faith as otherwise they and we would doe On the contrary the Prelats stoutly mayntaine and support the sayd corruptions and in loue of them or rather of some other matter depending upon them they hate and molest us Agayne haue we loytred in the worke of the ministery Haue we heaped benefice upon benefice Haue we eatē and drunke and beaten our fellow servants Haue we sought our owne not that which is Iesus Christs Phil. 2.21 Haue we made our bellyes our God Haue we minded earthly things philip 3.19 I speake not these things boastingly as before we haue been charged but onely to purge our selues of those crimes which the former two notes did cast upon us and to proue that we haue not been disturbers but furtheres of the sincere profession of the gospell and worke of the Ministery Therfore let them that do so vntruely accuse us take heed that he whose checke no fleesh shall be able to indure doe not charge them rather to haue taken away the key of knowledge and to haue shut vp the Kingdome of heaven before men not goeyng in themselues neither suffering them that would enter to come in Mat. 23.13 whereas also the word Schisme in the Greeke language signifieth a renting and the word sedition in the latine tongue signifieth seorsim ire to goe aside or a going a side as we haue proved that in these significations we cannot be justly charged with them so let them that doe charge vs in this behalfe see and consider well whether themselues may not more truely be sayde to haue rent themselues and to haue gone a side first from the word the rule of all Churches in the poyntes of doctrine before mentioned and in some other as also in the observing maynteyning of humaine Ceremonyes in the worship of God 2 From other Churches of Christ Iesus both the auncient Apostolicall Churches and also the present Churches reformed in other Coūtryes nether of which either held or doe hold such poynts of doctrine as before I haue named or haue or doe obserue maintayne such humaine Ceremonyes in the worship of God as are here in question We beyng charged with heresye schisme by the Papists for renouncyng the doctrine and communion of the present Romish Synagogue doe truely returne the same charge upon the papists touching herisie and schisme because they haue fallen away from the doctrine and auncient simplicitie in the worship of God that at the beginnynge was in the Auncient Romane Church and in other true Churches planted by the Apostles In like mannner therefore let our accusers in the feare of God consider whither the blame of schisme doe not for the causes before expressed more aptly belonge unto them then to vs etc. Let me yet also though somewhat perhaps out of place ad one reason more to proue the Ministers pleaded for not to be Schismatikes All Schismatikes are abomination to the Lord The Ministers pleaded for are not abomination to the Lord but in grace and favour with him Ergo The Ministers pleaded for are no Schismatikes The proposition or first parte of the Argument is Salomons who among the sixe thinges which the Lord hateth and the seven which the soule of the Lord abhorreth he reckoneth him that rayseth up contention
like touching their perticular sinnes The second note with b is nothing because the schisme is not yet proved against us Though we deny not but that for our sinnes the Lord hath visited this land as well as for the sinnes of other yet not for any schisme of ours The like I say for the like cause of the note with c And though it behoveth the Parliament especially to consider of the workes of God as representing the body of the land yet I wish all other likewise to consider of the same G. Powel a I will not descant of the Suppliants meanyng in alleaging this example The wise may consider it So the wise may consider how foolish malice is Reply for want of matter from words to wrangle with a mans meaning The example is good and holy The Bee will gather hony out of a stinkyng weede but the Spyder sucketh deadly poyson out of the fayrest and sweetest flower The flatterer careth not what he say against one so that he may please another G. Powel e To wit by setling the state thereof against hereticall Papists and schismaticall refractarves I grant this Reply it beyng understood of such schismaticall refractaryes as in part rent themselues both from the Apostolicall doctrine and also from the auncient Apostolicall Churches as likwise frō all other Churches throughly in doctrine reformed and so stand in medio betwixt such Churches and the Romish Synagogues Who also beyng admonished thereof in duetifull manner by their brethren yea by some speciall works of Gods loving severity doe persist in their sayd schisme in a most refractary manner G. Powel f As if no good could come unto the Church but the restitution of schismaticall Ministers which is indeed no good Reply Let the reader be pleased to see whereupon this note is gathered and he shall see that there is no ground therof The author onely asketh a question upon former promises whether such and such thinges considered the Parliament would dissolue their meeting without doeyng any further matter in that behalfe that is for the Ministers pleaded for then they had donne He doth not say without doyng any good but any further matter insinuating thereby that they had done something allready agayne he speaketh not of all causes but only sayth in that behalfe But this is the answerers sophistry Sophistry often detected Howsoever he say no good hath been done by Ministers whō he calleth refractary yet thowsands that feare God can testifie that the Church hath received more good by such Ministers then ever it hath or will by any Papall Prelats careles Non-residents trencher chaplins and idle bellyes that seeke their owne and not the thinges that are Iesus Christs and who are noted in all publike meetings for reformation of abuses more to hinder then to further all good motions against the Papists against swearing for the religious observation of the Saboths etc then common Christians at the least then those that they doe contemptuously call laye persons G. Powel g What godlines is there in wilfull and malicious confronting the Magistrat in repinyng at their brethren and superstitous for sakinge their callings flockes and all to the vndoyng of themselues their wiues children and frends Reply None at all But who doe more comfront the Magistrat in all kingdomes then Papall Prelats that hold their owne jurisdiction to be iure divino by Gods law and that therefore deny all Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be absolutly invested into the crowne of those kingdomes where they liue that take upon them to deale withovt law besides law and directly contrary to law and that many wayes oppresse the Magistrats subjects at their pleasure As for us I haue sayd before I say agayne and it is published to all the world in the booke intituled A protestation of the Kings Supremacy that we are so farr from confronting the Magistrat that we attribute much more unto him then all rhe Prelats doe Touching repinyng at brethren I know none guiltie heerof except wishing that Christ Iesus may haue his owne the Church her owne the Magistrate his owne the Ministers of Christ and the subjects of the Magistrat their owne yea every Byrd to haue her owne feathers I know none I say to repine except wishing of these things and that every mortall man would content himselfe with his owne be to repine The rest of this note hath been answered G. Powel h A calumnious censure What Reply To say that vnworthy persons are thrust out into some of their places that are deprived A man need not to ascend into an high mountaine or to ryde many myles out of London for proofe therof The next note with b after h and before a as though the Notary had forgotten his alphabet is often answered The next note also with a after b is not worthy of answer G. Powel l VVe must wisely distinguish between such things as are proper to the Papicy and what they haue by vsurpation but are proper to the true Church of God Are Coapes Surplices and Crosse etc Reply proper to the true Church of God If they be not why is this noted upon the authors petition in this Argument for removing of Popish ornaments If they be then either it is no Church or an imperfect Church that wanteth them G. Powel m Proper thereunto Are no appurtinances of Romish religion to be hated Reply but such as proper thereunto This is wonderfull For what appurtinances are there of Romish religion which agree not either with Iudaisme or Paganisme We are therfore to abhorre whatsoever appurtinance of Romish religion whereof there is no necessary use in the service of God and which were better abolished then reteyned Thus much to the marginall notes of this 17 Argument In the rest of the answer he dealeth deceitfully racking divers particular examples applyed by the author only for amplyficaton and illustration of this generall Argument or of some perticular branch thereof racking I say such perticular examples and applying them to the maine conclusion and petition as intended by the author for a severall Argument to confirme the same Wheras in like manner he might haue done the like with divers other perticulars in this generall Argument comprehended But let us see what he sayth Further answer to the 17. Argument G. Powel In this Argument the Suppliants doe certeynly very worthily christianly discourse as of sundry other things so especially concerning the Lords great mercyes etc. In these words let the contrariety of the answerer to almost in his whole answer written Reply be observed For he being a scholler his words must be schollerly interpreted Because therfore we are not to doubt but that the answerer remēbreth as well what he hath learned in the Ethicks as in the Elenchs of Aristotle may it please the reader to vnderstand or rather to remember that Aristotle in his sayd Ethnicks maketh
he would eat no cheese were this moderat severity What then may be sayd of them that cast out other from the inheritāce of the Lord whose labours God hath blessed to the joye of many an elect soule that only for not doyng that against which they can yeeld a farre better reason from God his will revealed in his word then any man can doe for his not eating of cheese or for any other the like action from the secret instinct of nature G. Powel The author of these arguments is not afrayd to perswade provoke your Honorable Court these are his owne words to intercede with his Majestie that he would compell the Reverend Prelats to surcease their rigorous and cruell dealing The Apostle biddeth vs to provoke one another to loue to good works Heb. 10.24 Therefore why might not the author of these arguments use this word unto the Parliament for so good a worke as in all the said arguments is intended But for the latter words of M. Powel to compell the Reverend Prelats to surcease their rigorous and cruell dealing etc. Where doth the author use them The drifte of all the arguments insinuateth so much If it be but insinuation then all the words before set downe are not the expresse owne words of the author as M. Powell hath said 2 It may be taken for granted that the sayd Prelats are so resolute for mainteyning of their Hierarchie Discipline Ceremonyes and other conformity that they will not yeeld one inche yea not to his Majestie exceept they be compelled Gab. Powel The Prelats haue soberly and temperatly caryed themselues in their proceedings Answ We will all with one accord most thankfully acknowledg this when we shall find it In the meane tyme we do acknowledge it comparatiuly true in respect of their wils and desires For by this answer written by their authority and by divers other tokens it is apparant that they would gladly provoke us to giue them further advantage against vs and also that for these causes they would doe more thē they doe yet I speake not of all I doe unfainedly confess that their is great difference of affections amongst them it respect of us they would I say doe more then they doe If they feared not the people No but if his Majestie his most Honorable counsell would giue them leaue and if they feared not as much indignation from his Highnes as now they seeme to be in grace with him and as much opposition by the honorable Counsell as now perhaps they seeme to haue furtherance by some of them that do not so well understand the cause G. Powel Their obstinat superstion hath worthely made them subject to the proceedings of the Bishops What Superstition And obstinate superstition Answ We were never before to my remembrance charged with superstition much lesse with obstinat superstition but haue alwayes been accounted great adversaryes to superstitiō Yea we hate it with a perfect hatred yea our soules abhorre and detest the least superstition much more obstinat superstition as much as the best of them doe hate it yea much more then some of them it is one of our reasons against some poynts of conformitie that we judge them superstitious How then may we be charged with superstition Yea with obstinat superstition But what if we were superstitious May we therfore be punished cōtrary to law or aboue that that the law requyreth Were not this to ad transgression to transgression and to punish sinne with sinne We may not doe evill that good may come thereof G. Powel The author cryeth out as if the gospell by such proceedings were banished Gods worship prophanely adulterated to the eternall perill of many thousand soules Where is this outcry It is very low and soft Answer in some secret corner or written in very small letters that no man can see or heare of it The author might well cry out that the gospell is in part banished by the suppression of so many able godly faithfull paynefull ministers that Gods worship is in part corrupted both in the doctrine especially sithens this late vehement strivyng by our Prelats for conformitie as shal be afterwards touched and also in the other publike exercises of religion by mixture of humane inventions Ceremonyes and Traditions Yea and that heerby we are in danger to haue the candlesticke removed and the kingdome of Heaven taken from us and given to a Nation more worthy then we except by repentance doing our first works Revel 2.5 Yea making our last works more then our first vers 19. We doe in time prevent this judgment G. Powel The Parliament is able to convince him heerin of malepart Sycophancy and manifest untruth Answer I would such accusers notwithstanding their such threats of the Parliaments kindnes would stand with vs that we might be admitted to stand with them at the barre of the Parliament for triall of this accusation and whether the author of those Arguments or this answerer haue abused that most worthy Senat. G. Powel This author feareth no rebuke of shame for his vnconscionable dealyng Answer Let this unsconscionable dealing be shewed in the author or else let this answerer be ashamed G. Powel This man speaketh frō Cimmerian darknes by concealing his nāe Answer Then also by the same reason many books of the scripture the writers whereof haue concealed their names were written from Cimmerian darknes The like may be sayd of many other most worthy Theologicall bookes without name of any writer Much more may the same be sayd of the booke intitled SCOTTISH GENEVATING ENGLISH SCOTIZING and many other such disgracefull and scornefull books published without name of any author against the desired reformation and all the favorers thereof It is also the severitie of the Prelats that maketh vs the rather to conceale our names If we had as much liberty to publish our books for our selues as every rayler hath to put forth any thing against us Yea as there is for Printing of many profane filthy scurrilous lascivious ungodly bookes authorised by some of them you should quickly see our names The author is bold to offer his writing even to your Honors Gab. Powel to provoke you to supplicat to his excellent Majestie in behalfe of their cause or else to determine it of your selues Answ The author never desired this determynation you speake of by the Parliament as though that would or might be authenticall without his Majesties Royall assēt but onely that his Majesty thereby seeing the equity of the cause and the affection of his people therunto might also be the more easily perswaded to vouchsafe his princly favour towards them therein G. Powel I was cōmaunded by some in authority to peruse and breifely to refute these Arguments which at the first I was unwillyng to take vpon me If you be so ready to be commaunded to write against