age That is to say in every Century or age there were honest men and lawfull witnesses who testified that Henry the IV Ancestors descended from Saint Lewis though one onely age could remember or see Saint Lewis yet the next ensuing did see the first and heard their testimony the third did see the second c. In every age did live men whose testimony might be relyed upon It must be granted therefore by all that the knowledge which is grounded upon a continuall and never interrupted tradition is sufficient for lawfull witnesses 6 That the Roman Catholick Church hath a continuall and never interrupted tradition of its Faith and sense of Scripture being taught by Christ and the Apostles can not be denyed by our adversaries it being evident to the world that they who contradicted any article of this Faith we now professe in former ages were looked upon and condemned as Hereticks which is an infallible argument that we in every age received our Doctrine from the former not as the word of men but as the Word of God or as Divine Revelation for if it were not believed as Divine Revelation why should we condemne men as Hereticks because they denyed it Neither do Protestants deny that we believed our tradition and the testimony of our Church to be grounded upon Divine Revelation they onely say we were mistaken and that both our tradition and testimony of the Roman Church was fallible But then we urge that they acknowledge both were infallible in delivering to them the Scripture and testifying that it was the Word of God therefore in delivering and testifying all the rest seeing the same testimony delivering many things together must be of equall authority in all and equally believed by them who accept of it as a lawfull proofe All our pretended Reformers had no other ground in the yeare 1517. to believe Scripture as Divine Revelation but the testimony of the Roman Church Therefore they ought to believe all the rest or not to believe Scripture 7 I said it concernes also our adversaries to grant that their reformed Churches have no lawfull witnesses in matters of Faith because there can not be that sufficient knowledge which is required in a lawfull witnesse of Faith without tradition whereby it may appeare that the Faith and sense of Scripture of this age doth agree with that of the primitive Church If once our adversaries acknowledge lawfull witnesses of things past long since without a constant and never interrupted tradition every man whose spirit of ambition moves him may pretend to be true heire of any hereditary crowne or estate and without further proofe then his owne word and spirit or some obscure text of Scripture will exclude Kings and others whose rights are grounded upon tradition But if tradition be so necessary to preserve and make credible the testimony of men in matters of estates and rights in the Common-wealth it can not be superfluous to make credible the testimony of men concerning matters of Faith 8 It remaines now we prove that the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church hath beene confirmed with supernaturall signes or miracles But seeing there are in the Roman Church lawfull witnesses who prove that the Faith which they now professe is the same with that of the primitive Church miracles also are proved by the same witnesses it being granted by Protestants themselves that miracles were wrought in the primitive Church to confirme the Faith which Christ and his Apostles taught Yet in the Roman Catholick Church there are now lawfull witnesses and have beene in every age since Christs preaching that there have beene miracles done in confirmation of the Roman Faith This is evident to all who read the Ecclesiasticall Histories of present and past times Neither can our adversaries deny that we have lawfull witnesses for miracles now wrought in our Church even in confirmation of that Doctrine wherein we differ from them and reported by so credible testimonies See the 13. Chap. that it were imprudence in any person whosoever to deny them which is enough to propose sufficiently our Doctrine as Divine Revelation But Protestants do not believe our miracles because they imagine that they are against Scriptures that is against their owne interpretation of it and that some miracles have beene false and forged We do not say that all things which the common people thinke to be miracles are really true miracles but we affirme that true miracles there are in our Church and very frequent confirming that very Doctrine which Protestants reject the forgery or knavery of some particular wicked men in feigning miracles can not prejudice all especially such as are seene and experimented by persons of knowne integrity and learning able to discerne betweene true and false miracles otherwise it will follow that all the new Testament must be called in question or denyed to be Gods Word because Saint Thomas his pretended Ghospell or Nicodemus his writings are condemned as forged or Apocryphall That no reformed Church of Protestants can have lawfull witnesses to propose sufficiently their Doctrine as Divine Revelation is evident because for the space of 1500. yeares they were without any visible Church or tradition therefore their witnesses also are invisible and by consequence not lawfull or credible Fox and others made a certaine Catalogue of men who opposed the Doctrine of the Roman Church in former ages but they were known Hereticks and did neither agree amongst themselves nor with Protestants in their Tenets or Religion as hath beene demonstrated by Father Persons in his Examination of Fox his Kalendar and by many others 9 I conclude therefore that seeing Protestants grant there is and hath alwayes beene a Catholick Church upon earth and that Church must have lawfull witnesses testifying their Doctrine to be Divine Revelation it being evident that no Congregation of men can produce any such lawfull witnesses but the Roman Catholicks amongst whom I include also them of the Greeke Church who agree with us it s also evident that there can be no Church Catholick but the Roman CHAP. XI VVhether Transubstantiation and the lawfulnesse of the worship of Images be sufficiently proposed by the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church as Divine revelation and whether Protestants have any lawfull exceptions against them 1 THere are so many Bookes printed in defence of these Catholick Tenets that I judge it superfluous to treate of them ex professo I will onely answer some exceptions that Protestants have made against them to my selfe in diverse occasions That the Roman Church doth propose these articles sufficiently as Divine Revelation is cleare because it proposeth them by the same testimony and confirmed by the sames signes whereby it proposeth Scripture to be Gods Word this last proposall Protestants themselves grant to be so sufficient that no man may in prudence deny it Therefore the same must be said of all the rest and in particular of Transubstantiation and worship of Images 2 But let us
God revealed it reserving to his owne private â—udgement or to that of his first Patriarchs Luther Calvin Chillingworth c. the decision of this controversie VVhether God revealed it or no But the Catholick believes absolutely and doubts not but God revealed what the Church proposeth as revealed submitting his judgement in matters of Faith to whatsoever the Church doth define or declare 4 The obstinacy of Heresie may be well compared to the obstinacy of Rebellion Heresie being indeed a Rebellion of private and proper judgement against Gods authority and veracity appearing sufficiently in his Church Put the case that a Province of Spaine or France did reject any Lawes or Ordinances made by their King and intimated by his Officers to the people and proclaimed in the same Provinces In case these Lawes and the said Officers who have all the exterior signes or markes whereby the Kings authority is usually discerned were contemned by the people not because they doubt of their Kings legiflative power but because they will not believe he made such Lawes or gave any such Commission to his Officers would not the people notwithstanding all this pretended ignorance be Rebells and obstinate against their Soveraigne would it excuse them from the guilt of Rebellion to alledge in their owne behalfe that they did not thinke or believe the King commanded any such thing as his Officers pretended and proclaimed Their very excuse involves obstinacy and Rebellion The obedience and duty which Subjects owe to their King must be extended also to his Officers they must obey their Soveraigne not onely when himselfe commands but also when the Officers that have the ordinary signes of his authority do command in his name 5 This is the case of Hereticks They protest if they had thought or believed that the Doctrine of the Roman Church was revealed by God they would embrace it with all their heart But they do not consider that this very If or doubt is their crime and heresie What reason or prudent ground have they to doubt that Goâ— doth speake by the Roman Church as Kings do by theâ— Officers No Officers or Ministers have more authenâ—tick and credible signes of their Kings authority the the Roman Catholick Church hath of Gods Commission and trust of proposing his Revelations and interpretinâ— his meaning of Scripture as is demonstrated in the 14â— and other Chapters Now its sufficient to know that thâ— signes of the true Church are Miracles Sanctity of Doctrine and life conversion of Nations continuall succession from thâ— Apostles to the present age both of Pastors and Doctrine c. These signes are obvious to our senses and may bâ— perceived by all people Clounes Souldiers and other illiterate persons that will inquire and examine the history of their owne Countrey or the Religion of their Ancestors Whatsoever amongst all the Christan Churches hath these signes That Church must be heard obeyed and believed as having Gods authority and Commission to decide all doubts and controversies of Faith whosoever believes not her Definitions and obeyes not her Decrees is an obstinate Heretick and Rebell CHAP. V. Of the Catholick Church 1 SEeing the obstinacy of Hereticks is against Gods Revelations as they are proposed by the testimony of the Catholick Church it s required something be said of this Church That there is a Catholick and visible Church in this world is granted tacitely by all Hereticks seeing every Sect oâ— them pretends to be the whole or at least one part of the Catholick Church 2 The Catholick Church is a multitude or Congregation of men whose testimony doth so sufficiently propose their Doctrine to be Gods Word and the true meaning thereof that it is evidently imprudence and infallible damnation in any person whosoever not to acquiesce iâ— the said testimony and not to believe without the least doubt what it proposeth as Divine Revelation There are but two wayes to convince the understanding of man the one is evident and cleare reason the other is authority To some things its necessary even for salvation we give our assent though no evident and cleare reason appeareth authority that is the testimony of lawfull witnesses must be taken for reason and supply the want of it It is unreasonable and damnable not to honour our Princes and Parents though they have no other evidence or reason to shew that they are our lawfull Princes or Parents but the authority and testimony of lawfull witnesses God therefore having decreed that men should believe some mysteries above reason commanded all to believe under paine of damnation whatsoever the Church saith he revealed It is not unreasonable that God should condemn us for not believing the testimony of the Catholick Church in matters of Faith which are above reason seeing we shall be condemned if we believe not the testimony of our Neighbours concerning our Princes and Parents Is it a lawfull excuse for any man to say If I had believed such a man to be my Soveraigne I would obey him or such a woman to be my Mother I would honour her If there be lawfull witnesses for Prince or Parents their testimony is to be believed the very not believing them is a crime though there be no more evidence for it then the said testimony Therefore à fortiori the not believing the testimony of the Church confirmed with so many signes in matters of Faith is a crime and obstinate heresie 3 Some Protestant Divines of the English Church are so civill as to admit of us Roman Catholicks and so eharitable as not to exclude any Christians from being a part of the Catholick Church yet we have reason to thinke that it s no civility or kindnesse but interest that moves them to open the dore to us because if they reject us themselves can not pretend to be a Church having neither succession of Bishops nor without begging our testimony any solid proofe that Scripture is Gods Word What Bookes of Scripture they are pleased to accept of as Divine Revelation they do it upon our score and word but the sense which we delivered to them with the said Books as the most principall part of Gods Word they do refuse never being able hitherto to give any tolerable reason why they take our word more for the letter oâ— Scripture then for the sense and meaning of it If we deserve credit in one why not in both being no lesse against our conscience and as much in our power to corrupt the letter as the sense But of their obstinacy in this particular and others I shall discourse more at large when speake of Protestancy Now I will proceed in the discovery of the true Church CHAP. VI. VVhether all Christians be the Catholick Church or whether it may be composed of any two or more Congregations of them if not agreeing in all matters whatsoever which any one Congregation or Church pretends to be revealed by God 1 THis is as much as to demand Whether Catholicks and Protestants
well versed in Scripture have so much honesty as not to conceale from the world that true sense of Scripture which seemeth to themselves cleare and evident after the combination and examination of all controverted texts But to be briefe and decline all comparisons which are odious let us suppose for the present which Protestants ought to take as a courtesie that learned Protestants and learned Catholicks are equally honest and equally learned both honest and both learned if the contrary be not made appeare by the ensuing demonstration 5 It is impossible for men equally learned and equally honest to have any controversie about the sense of any words of Scripture if the sense be cleare and evident But Protestants and Catholicks who are supposed to be equally learned and equally honest have controversies about the sense of such words of Scripture as concerne Transubstantiation worship of Images and other controverted points Therefore its impossible that the sense of such words of Scripture as relate to Transubstantiation c. should be cleare and manifestly against the Doctrine of Catholicks Therefore the testimony of all Protestant Churches maintaining the clearnesse against them is not onely incredible but manifestly false Because the testimony of Catholicks though in their owne defence is made evidently true by the controversie it selfe a visible and undeniable effect that can proceede from no other cause amongst learned and honest men but from the obscurity of the words and sense wherein their judgements differ If they squable about what is cleare both parties or at least one is ignorant or not honest We Catholicks have no reason to thinke that all our Doctors want knowledge and sincerity its cleare to all Christenâ—ome that in our Church we have in all parts of the world â—oth learned and honest men and if Protestants thinke â—he same of themselves they must grant that our controâ—ersies do manifestly demonstrate the obscurity of Scripture 6 Seeing Scripture is obscure and in no place cleare against Transubstantiation worship of Images Purgatory c. what ground or warrant had the first Protestants for their pretended Reformation would not all the world have reason to laugh at us Catholicks if we should part with that ancient sense of Scripture in favour of Transubstantiation Purgatory c. which we received from the Church that went before us assuring it was revealed by God upon the bare word of Luther Calvin Knox or the â—2 persons that made the Ritual and pretended to reforme in Edward the VI. time the Sacraments both in matter forme and number What signes or miracles did they shew for their extraordinary Mission and Apostleship of reforming the Doctrine of the Catholick Church If any man who received his Land by inheritance from his Ancestors ought not to part with it if not forced by better evidence then his owne how can we part with our Faith and sense of Scripture which is the ground of all our supernaturall inheritance and happinesse untill Protestants shew a better title then the inheritance or continuall succession of our Doctrines from the Apostles They must produce better evidence then their pretended clearnesse of Scripture If they laugh at Quakers notwithstanding all the texts of Scripture which they have at their fingers ends against Protestant Doctrine how do they imagine did Catholicks looke upon the first pretended Reformers One advantage these new Quakers have against all Protestants which Protestants have not against Catholicks and it is that a new Quaker may say with truth to an old or new Protestant he hath as prudent ground and as good evidence for his owne interpretation of Scripture and Religion as the Protestant hath for his their fancies the onely ground of both their Faith being much alike and their Mission being not warranted by any precedent Church This the Protestants can not object against Catholicks because we had alwayes the word and warrant of a precedent visible Church for our interpretation of Scriptures and Religion CHAP. IX VVhether any Puritanicall Congregation be the Catholick Church by reason of their pretended spirit 1 THere not a trades-man or simple woman amongst the purer sort of Protestants who do not imagine themselves to be more infallible in interpreting Scripture then the Pope and all the generall Councells together This infallibility they attribute to the Spirit of God which they all pretend to have But this fond imagination is as easily refuted as the clearnesse of Scripture hath beene in the former Chap. because every pure Protestant or Puritan pretends to have the Spirit of God but that Spirit contradicting it selfe according the diversity of Tenets which the purely inspired hold it is impossible it should be the Spirit of God who can not inspire contradictions Yet they are so obstinate that its impossible to perswade them to the contrary though you may clearly convince them The Pope must be Antichrist Catholick Kings the horns of the Beast religious Orders rags of Rome wherewith the VVhore of Babylon adornes her selfe The Puritans must onely be the Elect the Saints and pure Zealots of the beauteous discipline of Sion which to carry on though whole Nations be extirpated their holy Spirit doth not onely rid them from any remorse of conscience but assures them no worke can be more meritorious If you inquire of them how they know whether this spirit of theirs be good or bad of God or the Divel Calvin their Patriarch and Master answers that they do discerne it as clearly as they do white from black sweet from sower and light from darknesse his proofe is the experience and testimony of every one of the faithfull Brethren concerning the purenesse of his owne spirit 2 This Calvinisticall and private spirit being so hidden and undiscernable can not be a sufficient and prudent ground at least for any man that hath it not to believe it is the Spirit of Truth and of the Catholick Church Men who are not in the true Church must be led into it by some credit and exteriour signes And though Faith be a gift of God yet it is communicated by preaching and hearing Rom. 10. We do not deny that God must helpe all Catholicks interiourly with his supernaturall grace and spirit but the difference between the Puritan and Catholick spirit is that the Puritan spirit inspireth a beliefe contrary to reason the Catholick spirit inspires a beliefe non contrary but agreable to reason Though Christian Faith be above reason it is not unreasonable But it can not be agreable to reason that any person believe a Puritanicall spirit without any more proofe of the goodnesse of it then a Puritans word against a sense of Scripture which hath beene continued in the Roman Churches since the primitive times as is evident by tradition testimony of Fathers and acknowledged by the Magdeburg Centuries and other Protestant Writers Therefore the private spirit can not be a sufficient proposall of the true Faith or a credible and convincing signe of the true Church
3 Another proofe that no private spirits interpretation of Scripture can be the true one being contrary to the publick testimony of the Church which went before it and Puritans pretend to reforme may be borrowed from Saint Peter who giveth to understand Pet. 1.20 that no private interpretation can be the true sense of Scripture The reason is cleare because there is none if not confirmed in grace who may not be an obstinate Heretick against the true sense of Scripture in controverted texts but no man can be obstinate against his owne private interpretation and the sense of his private spirit Therefore he can not be an Heretick if the private interpretation of Scripture against the publick testimony of the precedent or present Church which he impugneth be the true meaning and sense of Gods Word 4 Perhaps Puritans will grant that its impossible for any of them to be an Heretick seeing their spirit is infallible If this be granted it s also impossible for any other to be an Heretick or obstinate against their spirit or interpretation because he who is obstinate may be convinced and it s not possible to convince any man but by cleare reason or at least by lawfull witnesses Cleare reason Puritans can not pretend for their spirit because it s against reason to believe it Lawfull witnesses for it there can be none or no more then one which is not enough nor allowed as lawfull in a mans owne case Though every Puritan giveth not onely a testimony of his owne but also of his Brethrens spirit yet he is no lawfull witnesse for any other mans spirit because he hath no better evidence or ground for the testimony he gives then the other mans owne word in commendation of his owne spirit he neither seeth the spirit of the other nor any signe whereby it may be made credible onely he may witnesse that the man whose spirit it is sayeth it is of God but one mans word in his owne case is no sufficient evidence for a lawfull testimony Therefore there are no lawfull witnesses for the private spirit and consequently none can be obstinate against us because none can be convinced that it is of God Whence it followeth that the spirit can be no sufficient proposall of Gods Word or sense and therefore no inspired Congregation of Protestants can be the Catholick Church CHAP. X. VVhether that Congregation of persons which live in communion with and subjection to the Roman Church be the Catholick and true Church of God 1 THis question seemeth to have beene resolved by what is said in former Chapters Because iâ— there be a Catholick Church Vide summam Concâ—liorum A.F. longo in Conâ—il â—â—orâ—n 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 and that is noâ— all Congregations of Christians taken together nor any Protestant Church in particular the dispute can onely be now between the Greek Church and the Roman but the Grecians having so many times altered their Faith so many of their ancient Patriarchs being condemned Hereticks and all their Church being legally convicted of Schisme and Heresie in three generall Councells of Florence Lions and the Lateran they can not pretend to be the true Church which never erred I do not speake of that part of the Greeke Church which communicates with us Roman Catholicks because that is part of the Roman But suppose the Roman Church were not the Catholick I see not what advantage Protestants may have by pleading for the Grecians seeing these agree not with them but are altogether against the pretended Reformation and condemne it as Heresie as appeares by the answer of the Patriarch of Constantinople to the Protestants of Germany mentioned by Bellarmine lib. 3. de Euchar cap. 21. in fine 2 To prove therefore that the Roman Church is the true Catholick it must be made appeare that it proposeth sufficiently its Doctrine of Faith as Divine Revelation this sufficient proposall can not be done by cleare and evident reason because the mysteries of Christian Religion are above humane capacity Therefore it must be done according to what hath beene said in the 4. Chap. by authority and the testimony of lawfull witnesses But lawfull witnesses in matters of Faith are onely they whose testimony hath beene confirmed by miracles as hath beene demonstrated in the 2. Chap. Therefore we must prove also miracles if we intend to prove that the Roman Church is the whole Catholick and that it proposeth sufficiently its Doctrine as Divine Revelation Now to the proofe of the assertion 3 That Doctrine is sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation which is delivered to us as such by the testimony of lawfull witnesses confirmed by miracles But the Doctrine of the Church of Rome is delivered to us as Divine Revelation by the testimony of lawfull witnesses and their testimony is confirmed by miracles Therefore it s sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation and by consequence the Church of Rome is the true Catholick 4 If the Minor or second proposition be proved my intent is concluded That the Roman Church hath lawfull witnesses of its Doctrine to be Divine Revelation hath this difficulty A lawfull witnesse requires not onely knowledge of what he testifieth but also honesty both qualities are necessary an honest foole being as little to be credited as a knowing knave But how can the Roman Church now extant in the 17. age of Christianity have lawfull witnesses of the Doctrine and sense of Scripture which Christ and the Apostles taught the world so long since Though honesty can not be denyed to many Roman Catholicks yet the knowledge what the Apostles taught which is required for a lawfull witnesse of the true Church can not be granted to any seeing none is now living on earth that conversed with the Apostles This argument doth equally impugne all Churches yet none can answer it but we Roman Catholicks 5 It concernes all the world even our very adversaries to grant that the Roman Catholicks have lawfull witnesses with sufficient knowledge of what Religion and sense of Scripture was taught by the Apostles in the primitive Church nay which is more that no other Church pretending to Reformation can have sufficient knowledge required for lawfull witnesses of the true Religion sense of Scripture and Doctrine of the primitive Church If the Roman Church hath not sufficient knowledge for lawfull witnesses of Christ and the Apostles Doctrine no hereditary King or Prince can have a title or right to his crowne because the right descended to them by inheritance doth depend upon a lawfull testimony averring that they are the true heires of such a man who reigned perhaps three or four hundred yeares ago Henry the IV. of France proved himselfe by lawfull witnesses to be the heire of Saint Lewis But who couldbe a lawfull witnesse that Henry the Great descended of Saint Lewis All France did give a lawfull testimony of it because it was a constant tradition in the whole Kingdome descended from Saint Lewis his time to this present
time invented when the Councell defined it The Church doth not make new articles of Faith when it defines any controverted Doctrine it onely declares that such Doctrine was delivered to the primitive Church though perhaps it was not proposed generally to all Churches and Catholicks it groundeth the definition upon Scripture or Tradition The same which Protestants object against the word Transubstantiation did the Arrians against Consubstantiality in the Councell of Nice saying it was a novelty and not in Scripture 11 The lawfulnesse of worshipping Images is sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation by the second Councell of Nice in these words VVe do unanimously professe to stick to Ecclesiasticall traditions which are in force eather by custome or writing whereof one is the making of Images Which is agreable to the Ghospell and profitably invented for the beliefe of Gods true Incarnation This supposed following the beaten rode and the steps of our Divine and holy Fathers and observing the tradition of the Catholick Church wherein the holy Ghost doth inhabitate we define that holy Images ought to be worshipt c. of Christ of our Lady Angells Saints c. For so the discipline of our holy Fathers doth conclude as also the tradition of the Catholick Church which from one end to the other hath received the Ghospell 12 Notwithstanding this cleare testimony of the Catholick Church Protestants confound the worship of Images with idolatry not distinguishing between an Image and an Idol Idol signifies the likenesse of a false God Image is the likenesse of any thing that doth or may exist translating in the English Bible Image for Idol and make the poore ignorant people believe that we Catholicks dare not set downe in our Cathechismes the first Commandement at full as it is in Scripture because it forbiddeth worship of Images whereas out of the very text it appeares that God forbids onely the likenesse of any thing to be adored as God or made to that purpose In Canisius the Jesuite his Cathechisme is set downe the first Commandement as it is in Scripture In all other Cathechismes the substance of the first Commandement is set downe for in adoring but one God is implyed we must not worship any other things as Gods It might be as well objected against our Cathechismes that in the last Commandement we put in briefe onely these words Thou shalt not covet another mans goods omitting oxes and asses c. which these wise Objectors put us in minde of Cathechismes being briese instructions for childrens memory require the shortest expression of the substance of every Commandement 13 But when Catholicks urge Protestants with the same Commandement because they have their owne statues and pictures made which are as much prohibited by the Commandement as the statues or Images of Saints they can finde an explanation for the text and distinguish betweene civill and religious worship we honour say they Kings and Princes Images with a civill worship onely and not religiously as ye do the Images of Saints which religious worship is due to God alone I would faine know why can not religious worship have a latitude and be more and lesse supreme and inferror as civill worship hath Its civility not onely to worship Kings but also noble men and others ho are their servants but the supreme civilâ— worship is due onely to the King himselfe an inferior deâ— gree is due to his servants to every one according his calling What inconveniency is it to hold the same with proportion of religious worship The supreme religiouâ— worship which is called Latria is due to God alone why may not there be an inferior degree of religious worshiâ— due to Saints and their Images religious worship being onely an exterior acknowledgement of some religious oâ— supernatur all excellency in the person worshipt Saint Poter is knowne because he was a Saint and not because hâ— was a Fisher Sure Protestants will not deny that thâ— Saints who enjoy God have a supernaturall excellencâ— bestowed upon them by his Divine Majesty Thereforâ— the Saints and by consequence their Images may be hoâ— noured with a religious worship of an inferior degree 14 As for the danger of idolatry amongst the commoâ— people we Catholicks have no reason to apprehend any having so long experience of the contrary We resort more to the Church or Chappell where one Image is the another according the graces which we receive our selâ—s or the miracles which we credibly heare to be done 〈◊〉 others To perswade us not to believe any such miraâ—es is to take away all beliefe and society amongst men â—s evident some miracles done at these Images are true â—ough some may be false For its impossible that all the â—atholicks and many Hereticks should conspire togeâ—er to deceive the world and damne themselves for a â—ing which if false imports most of them nothing If â—ere be miracles the worship of Images can not be unâ—wfull because God induceth not men by miracles to â—nne rather there is an obligation of believing that it is â—ry lawfull And as for the danger of idolatry there is 〈◊〉 more in worshipping Images then there is that the â—mmon people of England should cry up an Image or atue of the King for their King and rebell with it aâ—inst himselfe CHAP. XII VVhether Protestancy be Heresie BY Protestancy I meane all and every point of that Doctrine of Protestants wherein they differ from any Tenet which Roman Catholicks hold as a point of Faith The articles of Christian Religion in which they and we agree â—n not be properly called Protestancy because they are infferent to both and were believed by us Roman Cathoâ—ks long before any Protestants were seene or heard of 〈◊〉 the world Most of the articles of Protestancy are neâ—tive that is not ot believe Transubstantiation Purgatory 〈◊〉 lawfulnesse of praying to Saints or worshipping them in â—ir Images c. so that to be a Protestant is not to beve Protestants on the other side say that to be a Caâ—lick is to overbelieve and to be a Protestant is to beâ—ve onely that which is necessary But then we aske who all be Judge of what is necessary and superfluous Not â—man Catholicks say they because they are a part and â—cerned By the same reason we may exclude all Proteâ—nts from judging and not onely Protestants but all Christians because every Church of Christendome pretends to believe all that is necessary all therefore and evâ—ry one may be excepted against as a part and concerneâ— So that if Roman Catholicks be excluded from determâ— ning what is necessary to be believed we must be judge by the Turks Pagans or Jewes in the controversies 〈◊〉 Christian Religion and of Scripture Me thinks we Caâ— tholicks are beter conditioned more prudent and moâ—â— provident in our beliefe then Protestants because thougâ— we should believe too much we can not be damned foâ— want of necessary beliefe we may lend some to oâ— Neighbours and reserve to
he desrred to have Apostata Friars that had tyed themselves to Sisters assuring himselfe that they would be most plyable to his purpose And so there came into England Martin Bucer a Dominican Friar who had beene an earnest Lutheran Peter Martyr a Cannon Regular that inclined to Zuinglius his opinions but yet came with great indifferency to preach and teach what he should be appointed as afterwards appeared being a Lector in the University of Oxford when the Parliament in London was debating what opinion the Kingdome should followe concerning the Reall presence Peter Martyr kept all his Schollers in suspence untill newes came of the Parliaments resolution to which he accommodated himselfe for having detained his Schollers with tedious glosses upon the words precedent to This is my body not to declare his sense of them before he understood the sense of the Parliament which having received by the Post to be interpreted in a â—gurative not reall way he was presently inspired that this was the cleare sense of the Scaipture and wondered now any could be so blind as not to see a thing so maniâ—est Bernard â—chinus was the third who had beene a Caâ—eclâ—in but being weary of that austere life tooke a woman Annal. Cap. 1543. and writ a Booke in defence of having two wives at 〈◊〉 Some say he died a Jew but the Annalls of the Capuchins testifie that he repented and died a Cathâ— lick 6 These three Apostles of the Reformation were dâ—stributed into three principall fountaines of the Land London Oxford and Cambridge With these joyned Coverdaâ— an Augustin Friar Bale a Carmelite and other Apostates who did so vary in their Doctrine and Religions which they preached to the people that all was in confusion iâ— so much that the Protector writ to Cranmer and Ridley that they should make hast to end the common Servicâ— booke or of Common prayer Doctrine and Rites which they had begunne 7 But from hence arose a great Controversy for thaâ— Bucer would have one thing Peter Martyr another Ochinâ—â— a third Iohn Bale and Miles Coverdale would saine put iâ— their opinions also Above all others did trouble the market two heady Priests Iohn Hooper and Iohn Roger comâ— from beyond Seas the one from VVittenberg the other from Strasburg These two dissenting wholy from thâ— course begunne by Cranmer and Ridley made a great faction against the Common prayer booke especially afteâ— that Hugh Latimer sided with them who was of great regard with the common people 8 The Protector seeing such differences in Religions and confusion called a Parliament an 1547 but the Common prayer booke could not then passe this onely waâ— determined about Religion that none should speake irreâ— verently of the Sacrament of the Altar and that all for mer Statuts made by the Kings of England against what soever Hereticks or Sectaries namely against Lohards VVickliffians Hussits Anabaptists c. should be recalled and annulled So as now every man might thinke say preach or teach what he thought fit 9 But in the next Parliament the Common prayeâ— booke was approved because it seemed in matter of thâ— Sacraments to favour and humour divers Sectaries whâ— before had opposed it Yet the common people in man shires of England tooke armes in defence of the old and Catholick Religion complaining that most Sacrament were taken from them and they had reason to feare thâ— rest if they did not looke to it would follow within short time This was King Eduards Reformation which he could not perfect because he died within six yeares after he had begunne 10 It is very remarkable how in this Kings time it was resolved that whatsoever should be determined by six Bishops such as they were and six men learned in the Law of God or the major part of them concerning the Rites and administrations of Sacraments that onely should be followed so that seaven men in England were thought a sufficient number to change the whole frame of Christian Religion by changing the matter and forme of Sacraments abolishing the Sacrifice of the Masse and the ancient Rites and ceremonies of the Catholick Church which had beene practised for so many ages and reverenced by all the pious and learned men of the world Heresie is alwayes accompanied with presumption yet never did any Sectaries before this time attribute to themselves so much as ours did preferring the judgement of seaven men to that of all the world confirmed by so many generall Councells and holy Fathers The forme of consecrating Priests set downe in the new Ritual is this Receive the holy Ghost whose sinnes thou dost forgive they are forgiven and whose sinnes thou dost retaine they are retained and be thou a faithfull dispenser of the Word of God and of his holy Sacraments in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost See the Ritual printed at London 1607. and for the Act authorising it see Kallend an 3. Ed Vâ— cap. 12. and Mason pag. 94. 11 After King Eduard the VI. reigned his Sister Queene Mary who being a Catholick her selfe restored the Catholick Religion by Act of Parliament Cardinal Poole the Popes Legat absolving the Kingdome from the excommunication and schisme incurred Some Histories of that time relate that 30 thousand Sectaries all strangers Were banished out of England and amongst the rest the two holy Apostles Peter Martyr and Bernard Ochinus All King Eduards pretended Bishops were deposed and imprisoned the Catholick Bishops set at liberty and restored to their Seas This Queene is as much condemned by Protestants for crucltie against their Religion as Queene Elizabeth is censured by Catholicks as if forsooth there were no difference betweene punishing upstart seditious novelâ—ists and the maintainers of that Faith Which had beene in possession from the time Christianity was brought into the Land 12 Queene Mary deceased without issue her Sister Elizabeth was proclaimed Queene notwithstanding that all Catholicks knew Mary Steward the Queene of Scots to be the lawfull heire of the Crowne Queene Elizabeth shewing inclination to the new Religion all the Catholick Bishops refused to crowne her yet at length by great adoe she was crowned and anointed after the Catholicke manner by Oglethorp Bishop of Carlile The Reformation was by Act of Parliament againe established notwithstanding the great opposition made by all the Bishops and others in the upper House The Queene was resolved to puil downe Catholick Religion because Cecill and others of her Councell perswaded her that she could not be secure as long as the Popes authority was acknowledged in England seeing the Sea Apostolick had declared her a bastard and all Catholicks looked upon the Queene of Scots as the true heire to the Crowne 13 Notwithstanding it was the Queenes temporall interest to pull downe Catholick Religion in England yet it was much for her quiet and peace of the Realme to keepe alwayes a resemblance of it in the Clergy as the best remedy against Puritanisme which
some circumstances prove more then any others Qui tacit consentire videtur 9 As soone as Master Mason published his Records Fitz Herbert suspected them his words are these It was my chance to understand that one Master Mason hath lately published a Booke Wherein he endeavoureth to prove the first Protestant Bishops Consecration by a Register Thou shalt therefore understand good Reader that this our exception against the English Clergy is no new quarrell now lately raised but vehemently urged divers times heretofore many yeares ago yea in the very beginning of the late Queenes reigne urging them to shew how and by whom they were made Priests Bishops c. And what trow you was answered thereto was there any Bishop named who had consecrated them was Master Masons Register or any other authenticall proofe thereof produced by â—aster Jewell or Master Horne No truly This then being 〈◊〉 I report me to the judgement of any indifferent man What redit Master Masons new found Register deserveth being proâ—uced now after fifty and odde yeares to testifie this Consecraâ—ion whereof not so much as any one witnesse was named nor â—ny Register pretended by those whom it most imported to prove 〈◊〉 5. or 6. yeares after it was supposed to be done This and much more did Fitz Herbert print in the yeare 1613. in his Appendix to the Discovery of Doctor Andrews absurdities â—alsities lyes c. I say that no mention was ever made of Registers or Records testifying Parkers Consecration at Lambeth untill Master Masâ—n printed his Booke by Master Abbots command For though in a Booke called Antiquiâ—ates Britanniae pag. 39. edit Hanoviae an 1605. there be a Register of the Protestant Bishops in England thrust in with-but any necessity or purpose immediatly after Saint Austin the first Archbishop of Canterbury yet that very Register doth not mention any certaine place or forme of their Consecration so that it might be performed as well at the Nags-head as at Lambeth But that all the world may see how this very Register was forged I will set downe the words of the learned Author of a Booke called The Iudgement of the Apostles and first agein points of Doctrine questioned betweene the Catholicks and Protestants of England printed an 1633. Pag. 209. It hath beene pretended from a new borne Register of Mathew Parker that â—he was made a Bishop by Barlowe Scory and three others by vertue of a Commission from Queene Elizabeth and this new worke was acted on the 17. day of December an 1559. but â—alas they had then no forme or order to do such a businesse Pag. 349. VVhereas this printed Booke of Parkers Antiquitates Britanniae is the first that mentioneth any such pretended Consecration of him and the rest and the other VVriters seeme to borrow this from thence in the old Manuscript of that Booke which I have seen and diligently examined there is not any mention or memory at all of any such Register or Consecraâ—ion of either Mathew Parker Pag. 211. or any one of those pretended Protestant Bishops as the obtruded Register speaketh of And any man reading the printed Booke will wanifestly see it is a meerly foisted and inserted thing having no connexion correspondence or affinitie either with that which goeth before or followeth it And containeth more things done after Matheâ— Parker had written that Booke But now let us see how thâ— Protestant Clergy was charged with the nullitie and illgalitie of Ordination and how they never stopt the Adversaries mouths with Masons Registers or Records 10 Consider saith Doctor Bristow what Church that iâ— whose Ministers are but very lay-men Mot. 21. unsent uncalled uncoâ— secrated holding therefore amongst us when they repent anâ— returne no other place but lay-men in no case admitted no nâ— looking to minister in any office unlesse they take Orders whicâ— before they had not Master Fulke who was ignorant of noâ— thing in this point that Master Mason did know answering Bristow his objection denyeth ordinary calling to bâ— alwayes necessary which desperate shift he would neveâ— have used if he had beene provided of so easy and sufficient an answer as Master Masons Records would have afforded him if they had beene authenticall or extant 11 Master Reynolds Calvino Turcis lib. 4. cap. 15. There is no heardman in all Turkie which doth not undertake the governmen of his heard upon better reason and greater right order and authoritie then thesâ— your magnificent Apostles and Evangelists can shew for thiâ— divine and high office of governing soules reforming Churches c. 12 Doctor Stapleton in his Counterblast against Masteâ— Horne pretended Bishop of Winchester hath these urging speeches Fol 7. 9. To say truly you are no Lord VVinchester nor elsewhere but onely Master Robert Horne Is it not notorious that ye and your Collegues were not ordained according to thâ— prescript I will not say of the Church but even of the very Statues How then can you challenge to your selfe the name of the name of the Cord Bishop of VVinchester Fol. 301. You are without any Consecration at all of your Metropolitan himselfe poore man being no Bishop neither 13 Doctor Harding in his Detection of sundry foule errours against Master Iewell Fol. 129. You tell not half my tale which truly is noted by many that Master Iewell passes over the difficulties without answering or mentioning I laid for my foundation out of raint Hierome the se words Ecclesiaâ—onest quae non habet Sacerdotem that is no Church which hath not a Priest or Bishop c. for Sacerdos as you know doth signifie both a Priest and Bishop I aske then as well of your Bishoply vocation and of your sending as of your Priesthood c. These being my questions Master Jewell you answer â—â—ither by what example hands were laid on you nor who sent â—u but onely say he made you Priest that made me in King â—dwards time Verily I never had any name or title of Priestâ—od given to me during the raigne of King Edward I onely â—ke the order of Deaconship as it was then ministred furâ—er I went not c. Truly after I had well considered with â—y selfe these questions which in my confutation I moved unto â—u I tooke my selfe neither for Priest nor yet for lawfull Deaâ—n in all respects by those orders which were taken in King â—dwards dayes being well assured that those who tooke upon â—em to give orders were altogether out of order themselves â—nd ministred them not according to the Kite and manner of â—e Catholick Church as who had forsaken the whole succession 〈◊〉 Bishops in all Christendome and had erected a new Conregation of their owne planting the forme whereof was imaâ—ned in their owne braines and had not beene seen nor praâ—ised in the world before 14 Master Iewell answers all this with profound silence â—s though it had never beene written albeit he would haâ—e the world believe that he
our selves as much as is neceâ— sary But Protestants stand upon such nice termes witâ— God and the Church that if they come not short of whâ— is necessary as twenty to one they will their Neighbouâ— shall be nothing the better for their beliefe 2 I might urge this argument in a serious way and vâ— home if this were its proper place But to returne to thâ— question whether Protestancy be Heresie I answer thâ— all opinions or Tenets whether negative or affirmativâ— that Protestants hold contrary to that which the Româ— Catholick Church believes as an article of Faith are Hâ— resies which I demonstrate in this manner Whatsoevâ— opinion is contrary to any Doctrine sufficiently propose as Divine Revelation is Heresie but all Protestants prper Tenets or opinions are contrary to some Doctriâ— sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation Therefore 〈◊〉 Protestants proper Tenets or opinions are Heresies Thâ— first proposition is granted by our very adversaries anâ— hath beene proved in the 3. and 4. Chap. The second 〈◊〉 cleare by what may be borrowed from the same Chapter and from the so and I apply to our question by this syâ— logisme All the proper Teners of Protestancy are coâ— trary to some Doctrine which the Roman Catholiâ— Church doth testifie to be Divine Revelation that is 〈◊〉 have beene revealed by God to the primitive Church bâ— the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church is a sufâ— cient proposall of any Doctrine to be Divine Revelatioâ— Therefore all Tenets or opinions proper to Protestancâ— are contrary to some Doctrine sufficiently proposed Divine Revelation 3 If the second proposition of this last syllogisme argument be demonstrated Protestancy is demonstrated â—o be Heresie Therefore I prove it in my judgement â—ery clearly That testimony is a sufficient proposall of Sods revealing any Doctrine to the primitive Church which testimony is confirmed by miracles and hath conâ—inued without interruption being exhibited in every â—ge from the time of the Apostles to this present by hoâ—est and knowing men But the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church hath all this Therefore it s a sufficient â—toposall of any Doctrine to be Divine Revelation or to â—ave beene revealed by God to the primitive Church That the testimony of the Roman Church is confirmed by â—â—iracles even in those very points of Doctrine wherein â—rotestants differ from us is so evident that no prudent â—an if not obstinate can deny and is particularly proved 〈◊〉 the 13. Chap. For how is it possible that all the world â—as I said before should conspire to abuse Protestants and â—amne themselves by feigning miracles and that not â—nely in this age but in every age since the primitive Church The forging of some is no prudent proose that â—ll are forged If there are no miracles in the Roman Caâ—olick Church in confirmation of Transubstantiation Purâ—atory Worship of Images c. there is no Faith to be given my men whosoever 4 Now it remaines onely to be proved that there hath â—een a continuall succession of honest and learned men â—f the Roman Church in every age since the primitive Church to this present who did beare witnesse that the Doctrine which every respective former age delivered to â—he next ensuing and we believe as Faith was revealed by â—od to the first Christians But this being evident by the â—ondemning as Hereticks all those who in any age held â—rotestant Tenets and being also proved in the 10. Chap. â—s superfluous and troublesome to repeate it here againe Whosoever desires to be informed more at large and of â—very point in particular let him read the Protestant Apoâ—gy for the Roman Church There he will finde what I â—ay to be so cleare that our very learned Adversaries are â—orced to acknowledge it and recurre to that old and â—esperate shift of Hereticks who say that the word of â—en is not to be believed as if the word of the same men who assure us that Scripture is the Word of God were credible in that but in nothing else Of this we have saiâ— enough before in the 5. Chap. 5 Yet I will not omit to argue against Protestants aâ— Saint Augustin did against Jewes and Pagans with that inâ— genious Dilemma whereof I made mention in the 3. Chap Either the first learned and honest men who adored thâ— Blessed Sacrament believing there was no bread in it worshipt Images c. did see miracles to confirme thesâ— pretended novelties which crept in as Protestant say tâ— the Church or they did see no miracles to confirme them If they did see miracles I have my intent If they did seâ— none I have also my intent because the greatest of all mâ— racles is that wise and learned men should without anâ— miracles seene adore for God that which seemes to be piece of bread and worship a statue or picture which 〈◊〉 not onely contrary as Protestants say to cleare Scripturâ— but also to common sense and reason By the same Di emâ— ma I prove that every point of the Doctrine of Catholick against Protestants was sufficiently proposed as Divinâ— Revelation Either it was sufficiently proposed to the firâ— Christians who believed it or not If it was Protestancâ— is Heresie If it was not how is it possible that not onely the first who believed or taught these superfluities buâ— all the wise and honest men of the world for many age before the pretended Reformation should impose upon themselves unnecessary articles as necessary and therebâ— betray posterity and damne themselves for believinâ— things which had no ground in Scripture nor were testiâ— fied to them by any credible testimonies of the Christianâ— who went before them to be Divine Revelation All thaâ— Protestants can say in their owne defence hath beene conâ— futed in the 3.4.7.8 and 9. Chap for all must be reduceâ— to three heads 1. That Scripture and Fathers are cleaâ— against Roman Catholicks 2. That the private spirit iâ— for Protestants 3. That Protestants are neither obstinate nor Hereticks because they do not believe that God reâ— vealed Transubstantiation Purgatory c. All these threâ— evasions and more have beene confuted in the foremeâ— tioned Chapters to which I remit the Reader 6 I do not see what exception Protestants can adde tâ— their former against the testimony of the Roman Cathâ— lick Church unlesse they say I that it is not make anâ— thing prudently credible as Divine Revelation because we Catholicks can not make appeare by reason how what we say is true as how accidents can be without their proper subject c. but upon this score they may as well reject the mystery of the Trinity Incarnation as Transubstantiation The Catholick Church is not the Author of the Doctrine it proposeth it s onely a witnesse as Christ himselfe declared when he sent the Apostles to preach Ye shall be my witnesses in Hierusalem c. Act. 1. Onely God who is the Author of Catholick Doctrine can give a cleare reason of some mysteries and
there must be good correspondence betweene both Rationall creatures are saved by a rationall way There is a generation of men that thinke none can enter into the true Church by Faith if he leaves not his wits behind him at the doore so great an antipathy they conceive is betweene Faith and Reason that to embrace the one is to renounce holy and exclude tâ—e other This errour proceeds from confounding the mystery believed with the beliefe It s very certaine that the truth of Divine mysteries ought not to be censured by human understanding because they are above its reach that which seemeth to man very improbable may be an infallible verity But that we fall not into extreames on the other side its fit we know that no person is bound to believe any mystery he understands not before he seeth reason to believe it though that reason cleares not the mystery yet it makes manifest our obligation to believe it None is bound to part with his ovâ—ne Religion or opinion before he knoweth upon what score There is nothing so much and so properly our owne as our thoughts our lands and all other properties may be forced from us our thoughts can not they remaine free though our selves should be slaves Seeing therefore its a right of nature not to part with our owne goods being in possession unlesse better evidence be produced by others then we can shew for them the same right must be extended to our thoughts even in matters of Faith because the Law of grace doth rather perfect then destroy the Law of nature and equity 3 To prove that Protestancy is manifestly against reason it s enough to prove that it is manifestly against reason to believe as Protestants do There is not one article of any Protestant Church opposite to the Roman Catholick Faith that is not manifestly against reason in this sense This assertion may be proved first because Protestancy is Heresie as hath beene proved in the 12. Chap. and Heresie is manifestly against reason for Heresie involves obstinacy and an obstinate man is manifestly unreasonable because he is guided by his will not by his understanding None can properly be obstinate if not convinced convinced none can be but by cleare reason or by lawfull witnesses to whose testimony evident reason commands all men give credit and submit their judgements if there be not cleare evidence against it All Common-wealths do acquiesce in and take the word of honest men in both publick and private affaires as in punishing Malefactors disposing of inheritances c. That the Catholich Church hath a great multitude of lawfull witnesses and testimonies against Protestancy hath beene demonstrated Therefore Procestancy is manifestly against naturall reason which dictates to all rationall creatures to conform themselves to the testimony of lawfull wicnesses when they have no evidence against the said testimony Protestants can not pretend evidence of reason against Catholick Tenets because they are above reason Evidence of the private spirit is ridiculous and incredible to others therefore unfit for the true Catholick Church as hath beene proved in the 9. Chap. There remaines onely their pretended evidence or clearnesse of Scripture which hath beene alsoo confuted in the 8. Chap. Other lawfull witnesses against ours they have none unlesse we grant that an invisible Church never heard of before Luther hath lawfull testimonies And as for the sentences of some Fathers which they wrest in their owne behalfe we produce others against them of the same Fathers in which they explaine themselves Therefore it s manifestly against reason to believe as Protestants do because they have no prudent ground for Protestancy their Faith is not above reason but below it that is unfit to be embraced by any rationall creature 4 Another manner of proving Protestancy to be manifestly against reason is by this cleare principle When witnesses and testimonies are contrary they onely are to be believed who confirme what they say with visible and evident signes Reg. 3 Salomon judged that the child about whom there was so great a dispute betwixt the two women did belong to her who shewed a visible and sensible horror against the dividing of the infant into two parts Though the other was confident enough in testifying the child was her owne yet because her testimony was not confirmed by any exteriour and visible signe the contrary testimony was preferred and believed by Salomon If we will judge of Religions as wise and rationall men we must examine which of all Christian Churches testimony is confirmed with evident and visible signes No Protestant Church all of them being invisible for so many ages can pretend so evident and visible signe The Roman Catholick Church doth not onely pretend to visible signes but they are so evidently appearing in the said Church that no Protestant can deny them without forfeiting his judgement or his ingenuity The visible signes of the true Church must have so evident a relation to God the Author of both Church and Faith that whosoever will reflect upon the said signes can not prudently deny that they are a sufficient proofe of God being the Author of the Doctrine or Faith confirmed by them There can not be a more rationall and sufficient proofe of any Doctrine being taught by Christ and his Apostles then a continuall succession from them to us both of Pastors and Doctrine delivered from age to age by the Doctors of the Church See this in Esay 59.21 Psal 45.16 Ephes 4.11.12 5 As for our succession of Pastors it is confessed by Protestant Our succession of Doctrine from the Apostles to this present must also be granted because they could never tell us though continually pressed in that particular point when did the Roman Church fall from the true and sincere Faith which confessedly it once professed And And truly before Protestants prove that the Roman Faith was changed in any age they must first prove that all the Pastors and Doctors of that age did conspire together to damne both themselves and posterity or if they did not conspire to so incredible a thing it must be necessarily said that in that age wherein the first change of any article of Faith happened all the Catholicks of the world weremad or slept for the space of a hundred yeares because if they were awake and sober its impossible but in some parts of the world nay in every part and Countrey some learned and honest men would contradict so damnable and abominable practises and advertise future ages of the innovation of Christian Religion contrary to cleare Scripture and the knowne beliefe of all Catholicks in former ages It s as evident therefore that we Roman Catholicks have not changed that Faith which we received from the Apostles as it is evident that there was not any age wherein all the world conspired to damne themselves and their posterity or as it is evident that there was not any age wherein all the world was so benummed stupified or
against our Doctrine Cath. So have ye against ours and by your consequence ye must not judge of it Ye are best be judged by the great Turke if ye will not admit of the Pope to be Judge of Controversies in Religion Yet it s not credible that God would have us be judged by Turkes or Jewes What thinke you Master Doctor Min. But why should the Pope or Roman Church judge us Protestants and we not judge them Cath. Your Protestant Churches are not yet come to yeares of discretion Our Church was in possession of judicature before yours was born ye must produce better evidence then we can shew before you can rationally pretend to deprive us of what we possessed these 16. hundred yeares 19 Min. I never met with a more obstinate Clowne then thou art Cath. Why do you say I am obstinate Is it because I take not the word of your English Church that is of 12. or 7. men in matters of Faith and Sacraments against the testimony of all Catholick Councells and the tradition of the whole Church Min. I wonder that thou didst not make mention of tradition before now Woe to them that prefer the traditions of men before the Word of God! Cath. I do not take Scripture as you interpret it to be the Word of God Our Preachers teach us that the Word of God must necessarily involve Gods meaning and sense But ye Protestants intrude your own fancies and dreames and make them a part of Gods Word rejecting the true sense and meaning of Scripture which the Catholick Church had learned of the Apostles and preserved from the first age of Christianity to this present Minist What a calumny is this Name but one fancy or new interpretation of ours intruded into Scripture Cath. Do not ye say that the respect we give to Images is idolatry or at least forbidden in Scripture as a thing inclining men to idolatry The Catholick Church condemned long since this fancy of yours as heresie and ye make the common people believe that we are idolaters for holding that sense of Scripture which hath been taught and practised in the Church since the beginning as learned men assure us and they say the second Councell of Nice do testifie 20 Min. Worship of Images is dangerous and therefore forbidden in Scripture Cath If that be so how did all the Church approve of it for so many ages and stick to it still notwithstanding your contradictions We have men of conscience and learning how is it possible they should damne themselves and others for worship of Images Min. I see there is no ground to be expected by discoursing with thee because when thou art pressed with Gods cleare Word thou dost recurre to the tradition and practise of the Church and to I know not what miracles Therefore I fear God hath delivered thee over to Sathan as an obstinate and reprobate Heretick Cath. Make it appear to me that your sense of Scripture is Gods meaning and then I will not contradict your Doctrine But I see no prudent ground to believe that your new interpretations contrary to the practise and tradition of the ancient Catholick Church should be dictated by God On the contrary side ye can not deny that we Catholicks have all the reason in the world to stick to our old sense of Scripture confirmed by so many miracles and testimonies of antiquity 21 Let this suffice to shew how illiterate Catholicks may convince the most learned Protestants Our cause is so good and cleare that common sense is enough to defend it and confound our greatest and most able adversaries No Catholick Clowne can be convinced by any learned Protestant if he be not more then ordinarily simple Truly there is nothing more incredible then that all the visible Churches of the world should have beene forsaken by God and in damnable errours for so many ages as Protestants pretend and that to reform the world God should pick out amongst all men the most â—icked who continued or rather encreased their abominable and scandalous conversation after they begun to preach their new Ghospell See the lives of all new Reformers in the three Conversions of England and in the prudentiall Ballance if you doubt of this assertion Is it not a meere foppery to thinke that 12. or 7. men who modeld the new Church of England in Edward the VI. time should judge better of Christian Faith matter and forme of Sacraments and of religious ceremonies then the Councells of Lateran and Trent and all the world in former ages Is it not impossible and contrary to Christs owne promises that the exercise of true Religion and Faith should be as invisible as the English Church is at this present in times wherein Christianity through the mercy of God doth flourish in all parts of the world The Catholick Church was never brought to be invisible by the Arrians though by them much persecuted Let any Catholick Clowne but reflect upon these and other things visible to all the world and he may confidently dispute and convince the most learned Protestant CHAP. XV. Of the difference between Christian Faith and the historicall beliefe of Protestants THat supernaturall Faith is a speciall gift of God is granted even by Protestants themselves The superuaturality of it consists not in believing an extravagant and improbable object because that may be done naturally For there is nothing however so false and improbable to the understanding that will not at length be believed by men if constantly reported to them by others of whom they have a good opinion and not contradicted by any whose testimony they value The Turks believe that Mahomet was a great Prophet and Saint The Jews believe that the Messias is not yet come The Puritans believe that every one of themselves is inspired with a Divine spirit c. And though every one of these stories be false improbable and also contradicted by Catholicks yet because these Sectaries have a good opinion of their owne Congregation and a very bad one of us Catholicks they believe the first reject and contemne the second Turks Jews and Puritans do not believe these fond articles of their own Religion with any supernaturall Faith their beliefe is meerly historical just as children believe the history of the Knight in the Sunne Don Quixote de la Manche c. All Christians have not supernaturall and Christian Faith Many who received it in their Baptisme loose it by heresie Hereticks are called Christians because they are baptized and not because they are endued with Christian beliefe They believe some mysteries of Christian Religion but with a meere historicall Faith They assent to the mysteries of the Trinity and Incarnation not because God revealed them but because they are pleased to judge it very probable or certain that God revealed some such thing That their owne fancy or opinion and not Gods Revelation doth move Protestants to believe what they do believe of Christian Religion is evident
propension to make our selves Scripture as our selves shall interpret it or which is the same the Rule or Judge of Controversies Therefore it s no supernaturall action nor no meritorious act to believe after this manner as Protestants do for men have no difficulty in believing themselves and they believe themselves not God when their own interpretation of Scripture is followed against that of the Church It remaines now a reason be given Why do Protestants believe the most obscure and difficult mysteries of Christian Religion if their Faith be meerly historicall How can they without a supernaturall power and favour believe that the Scripture is Gods Word the Trinity the mystery of Incarnation c. To this doubt I answer that as I said in the beginning of this Chapter there is no difficulty in believing the most improbable and extravagant things when they are told us by persons we credit and are not contradicted by any whose testimony we value In matters of Religion Protestants value no men but Christians and such mysteries as they believe are not contradicted by any Christians at least in our parts of the world They believe therefore all they believe because they have been told so by their Parents and others who had the charge of instructing them and not because God revealed it which is the onely motive of Christian and supernaturall Faith It s a received principle that he who denyes one article of Christian Religion believes none at all It can not be said that he believes none with historicall beliefe as Protestants believe the mystery of the Trinity Incarnation and Scripture to be Gods Word The meaning of all Divines is that he who denyes one article of Faith believes none at all with Christian or supernaturall beliefe This is most true for to believe like a Christian is to believe the mysteries of Christian Religion because they are sufficiently proposed as Divine Revelation by the testimony of the Church not of every Church but of the true Catholick one which onely giveth lawfull authority and sends Preachers and Doctors to instruct the people God hath not promised his helpe and supernaturall inspiâ—ations which are necessary to believe with Christian Faith to them who are unsent uncalled unconsecrated but onely to such lawfull Ministers as are appointed and ordained by them who derive their Doctrine and succession from the Apostles through a never interrupted line That no Church but the Roman Catholick doth propose sufficiently as Divine Revelation the Doctrine which they preach hath been proved in the 8. Chapt. whence it followeth that out of the Roman Catholick Church there can be no true Faith nor salvation and that to deny one article of Faith in the least matter is to deny all because the motive of our beliefe is denyed as much in a little matter as in the greatest See the 7. Chap. The motive being denyed or rejected nothing can be believed with Christian Faith because of the motive depends all An infallible argument of denying the motive of Christian Faith is to contemne the testimony of that Congregation of men which hath the signes of being the true Catholick Church as a legall and orderly succession of Doctors and Doctrine conversion of Nations Miracles and markes of so eminent and extraordinary sanctity of life that the like was never found in Heathen Philosophers but farre exceeds all that hath beene discovered in any that wanted supurnaturall grace as is the entire renunciation of all the worldly pleasure profit and honour an inflamed affection towards God and his glory with an unfatigable zeale of the salvation of soules and desire of suffering for Christs sake whereof we Catholicks alone have an infinite number of undeniable examples No other but the Roman Church can as much as pretend to have the signes of the true Church as miracles remarkable either in number or quality c. Therefore whosoever denyes one article of the Roman Religion denyth also the motive of Catholick Faith which as we have proved is proposed onely by the testimony of the Roman Catholick Church and consequently he who doth not stick to it believes nothing at all with Christian and supernaturall Faith The very Devils and damned soules have the Protestant or historicall beliefe God who is Author of all graces and favours both naturall and supernaturall grant to all Protestants that pretious gift of Faith without which it is impossible to please His Divine Majesty or to obtaine the end whereunto we were all created FINIS