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A87595 A sober word to a serious people: or, A moderate discourse respecting as well the Seekers, (so called) as the present churches. Wherein the difference between them touching visible administrations, is discovered and discussed: and may serve as a plea for the nations ministery. / By a lover of truth and peace. Jackson, John. 1651 (1651) Wing J78A; ESTC R202618 52,789 71

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7.19 20 21 22 and had accordingly effected in process of time as appears in the Captivity by Zedekiah and in the Lamentations Chap. 2.6 7. He hath violently taken away his tabernacle as a garden he hath destroyed his palaces of the assembly the Lord hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Sion and despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priests the Lord hath cast off his altar he hath abhorred his sanctuary he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces they have made a noise in the house of the Lord as in the day of a solemn feast Notwithstanding which dealing of his towards them he caused them to return at the time appointed to build their walls and to restore their Worship according to the Word which he had spoken by his holy Prophets because as yet the full time was not come wherein the Entail was to be cut off from this people That which I would have observed in this Circumlocution is this Viz. First That although God had promised that his eyes and his heart should be upon that house which Solomon had built perpetually yet that time was a prefixt and limited time Secondly That before the time limited wherein there was to be a cessation of the Temple and Temple-Worship there was a Discontinuance as to the enjoyment and exercise of it which befel that people through their transgressions and sin insomuch that it may be said They sinned themselves into a difuse of their Mercy which befel them for a time during their Captivity till their restoration Thirdly That whereas it was by divine intendment that at the time appointed the daily sacrifice should cease the Temple-work and Worship should be at an end of which expiration God himself would be the author and procurer yet these people beforehand by their sins procured themselves a Separation Banishment and Captivity for the space of seventy yeers though then at the end thereof God graciously returned their Captivity So would I that it were considered touching the promise of our Lord Jesus to the Apostles or to the Christian Ministery Lo I am with you all the days unto the end of the world First That there is a time limited for the continuation of his presence with them as a Ministery at which time there is to be a cessation thereof as to a Ministery when the work for which the Ministery was given is fulfilled according to Eph. 4.11 12.13 14. and this according to divine purpose and fore-appointment of God Till we all come to the unity of the faith c. Secondly That it 's possible for the Successors of the Apostles in the work of their Ministery to make shipwrack of faith and a good conscience to prove false Teachers and privily to bring in damnable doctrines and through covetousness to make merchandice of men proving spots and blemishes sporting themselves with their own deceivings having eyes full of adultery that cannot cease from sin beguiling unstable souls exercised with covetous practices cursed children which have forsaken the right way and gone astray following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor who loved the wages of unrighteousness Nay all this the holy Apostles of our Lord did foretel should be as may particularly be instanced in the Epistles of Paul Peter Jude and this iniquity began to work in a Mystery before the Apostles left the earth and afterwards mightily prevailed as the History of time will evidence and most eminently that learned Discourse of Master Mede called The Apostacie of the last times and Clappam's Brief upon the Bible and became as that Scripture saith Isa 28.8 The priests and the prophets erred through strong drink they are swallowed up of wine they are out of the way through strong drink They erre in vision they stumble in judgement for all tables are full of vomit and filthiness there is no place clean And this will be found to have been the condition of the Ministery soon after the Apostles time and so forward ever since that pretended Vicar of Christ that false Vice-Christ hath as God set himself in the temple of God and hath sent forth his Angels Messengers or Apostles viz. Nuntio's Cardinals Legats and what not whereby he hath darkened the counsel of God by feigned and devised words and Ministeries From which we may expect to be delivered when the most High shall send his great Angel to enlighten the earth with his glory The fields being now grown almost white to the harvest the Lord of the harvest will in mercy to the ignorance of his poor people thrust forth labourers into the harvest Oh turn again our Captivity also as the rivers of the south who are fallen under a disuse of our mercy our first Ministery which our Lord ascending on high gave as gifts to men for the perfecting the number of the Saints and edifying the body of Christ which though discontinued because of our and our forefathers sins yet may be restored to us again when we are brought to see a want of them and can cry unto God for them Isai 30.18 19 20 The Lord is a God of judgement blessed are all they that wait for him And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more but thine eyes shall see thy teachers But whom shall he teach knowledge and whom shall he cause to understand doctrine Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the brests Isa 28.9 Therefore as in the former times there hath been a discontinuance of the true Ministery for a long season by reason of transgression yet may there be a glorious restoration thereof also in God's due time For as the Apostacie began at the Ministery both in the former and later times as is witnessed by the Apostle 2 Pet. 2 There were false prophets among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you who shall privily bring in damnable heresies even denying the Lord that bought them and bring upon themselves swift damnation And yet from the former the Lord in his good pleasure set his people of old free For these reasons why may it not also be hoped that in due time he will again return in mercy and visit the dark corners of the earth causing the people that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death to hear the joyful sound that they may walk in the light of his countenance The rather considering that the Ministery was given to continue till the number of the Saints were perfected Eph. 4.12 or as the former Translation renders it For the gathering together of the Saints Now if the number of the Saints be not perfected nor their gathering together compleated How is the end for which Christ ascended and for which he gave gifts to men accomplished if the work of the Ministery be not again restored unto
to grow drunk with Wine to erre in Vision to stumble in Judgement to surfeit of their Quails their Humane Arts of their own inventing under which they have laboured many hundred yeers fulfilling that Scripture Isai 28.7 8. and so it may be until the time the full time is come that that great Angel shall yet once again enlighten the earth Rev. 18.1 and the ancient Gospel be preacht again to kindreds nations tongues and people Rev. 14.6 Rev. 10. ult Then may we expect and hope that this Artificial Ministery and its Artificial Teaching the most High will consume with the breath of his mouth and with the brightness of his coming The zeal of the Lord can perform this Isa 37.32 Isa 28.16 Object onely he that believeth maketh not haste Objection 1. Christ gave his Commission to his Disciples in the name of Disciples intimating that they as such might both preach and baptize Matth. 28.18 2. The Dispciles of Christ did baptize before they were called and sent out even while they were Disciples Joh. 3.22 24. even before John was cast into prison and many of the Disciples were not so much as called then Matth. 4.12 18 21. Therefore Disciples as Disciples may baptize Answer What hath been already alleadged in this case Answ might suffice for answer to the first branch of this Objection especially if there be added this Consideration That the nature of their Employment at the time when Christ was to leave the world and them was far different from what it had been all the while he had been with them For with respect to the Lord Jesus whose they were and whom they served so long as he was with them in the flesh they were his Disciples and Scholars but now he was to go away from them and to delegate his power to them which the Father had given unto him after his Resurrection Matth. 28.18 19. All power is given me in heaven and earth Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them c. Joh. 17.18 As thou hast sent me into the world even so have I sent them into the world They were to be left Ministerially in his stead 2 Cor. 5.20 We in Christ's stead beseech you to be reconciled to God Now they were no longer to be reckoned Disciples or Scholars but Teachers Instructers Master-builders 1 Cor. 3.10 And therefore with respect to Christ though they might be called Disciples so long as he was with them yet with respect to the Power and Commission given unto them by Christ they were called Apostles by way of distinction from other Disciples or Believers Acts 1.2 Acts 2.42 their Doctrine was called The Apostles doctrine and their Ministery was not called Discipleship but Apostleship Act. 1.24 25 26. To the second branch of this Objection That the Disciples of Christ did baptize before they were called Apostles or sent out to preach First I answer that it 's not so safe concluding from a consequence as that because Matthew relates a passage touching John's being put into prison before he mentions the calling of the Disciples or Apostles that therefore they were not called till after John was in prison and consequently did baptize before they were Apostles Forasmuch as it 's very apparent the Evangelists do not observe the same method or order in the placing and relating the Histories of the Gospel some putting that before which another puts after which hath cast no small trouble to those who have attempted to Harmonize the Gospel Secondly Admit it be as it is objected and that they did Baptize while they were Disciples the Baptisme is not reckoned theirs but Christs It 's said he made and baptized more disciples then John Joh. 4.1 Joh. 3.22 He baptized Authoritatively they Instrumentally He made and baptized He that Ministerially doth baptize another by vertue of Authority to him given hath likewise Power and Authority to judge of the fitness of the person whom he baptizeth so did John by those whom he baptized Matth. 3.7 8 9. So did Philip by the Eunuch Act. 8.37 So did Peter by Cornelius and his Friends Act. 10.46 47 48 by whose Commission at least if not by his hand they were baptized So here the Disciples were said to baptize Joh. 4 but Jesus was with them Joh. 3.22 After these things came Jesus and his Disciples into the Land of Judea and there he tarried with them and baptized The persons then which were baptized by his Authority and Commission he being with them while they were baptized must needs have their fitness for admittance to be judged of by him and so the Baptism must be said to be his He may be said to baptize because 't was done in his presence and by his Authority they onely have this share in the Work that they are used Instrumentally to do that which their Lord and Master did Authoritively Thirdly If it may be granted as I suppose it may not that the Disciples did Baptize in the fourth of John by Warrant and Commission from Christ given to them apart from himself yet I suppose their example therein is not to be drawn into practice by believers now forasmuch as Christ himself was a member of the Jewish Church both living and dying as it may be easily proved if desired and a Minister of that Church Rom. 15.8 Now I say that Iesus Christ was a Minister of the Circumcision for the truth of God to confirme the promises made unto the Fathers So were his Disciples likewise members of the same Church and subservient to their Lord and Master in that Ministration as hath been proved at large in the former part of this Discourse Now what Christ did perform among them by himself or by his Disciples Ministerially would not be Warrant to these Gentiles for their Practice of the same had he not after his Resurrection and receiving Power from on high given Power and Command to the Apostles to teach the Nations whatsoever he had Commanded them Matth. 8.19 20. Now unless it can be shewed where and when the Lord Jesus or the Apostles did ever teach Believers or Disciples as Disciples to Baptize one another since his Resurrection and his taking possession of all Power to himself and commanding the Apostles to deliver that to the Gentiles to be by them observed which he had formerly taught the Disciples to observe themselves I say unless it can be found in Precept or Practice since that time I conceive the former Practice of the Disciples in the fourth of Iohn if it were every way as the Objection speaks baptizing the members of their own Church in the presence and by the Authority of their Lord he being the Minister of the Circumcision for the Truth of God will not prove a sufficient ground for the Practice of such Disciples as is pleaded for by this Objection Obj. 2. Disciples that are able to Preach the Gospel may Baptize Obj. 2. as appears by the Practice of
the Word which requires outward obedience so far as the demonstration and power of the Spirit comes so far are we taught and enabled outwardly to obey Now the demonstration of the Spirit is as I conceive the Spirits evidencing and making manifest the true intent and minde of the Apostles in the Ministery as it did evidence and make manifest its own minde in their Administrations when they did administer Now the Apostles they spake by the Spirit and had the minde of Christ He therefore that will interpret their minde in their Ministery which was none other but the minde of Christ must do it by the power demonstration and evidence of the same Spirit by which they spake which was unerring and infallible 1 Cor. 2.11 12 16 Who knows the minde of a man but the spirit of a man c. Again though it might be supposed that there were a clear demonstration of the Spirit yet without the power of the same Spirit believers were not sufficiently furnished to obedience Luke 24.45 49. Act. 1.2 4. Acts 10.38 This Power I take to be a power of Authority as well as Ability Matth. 28.18 and this Authority and Ability are both required at least in some of the branches of a believers obedience In particular the business of the Ministery and the Administrations which are particular to a Church I conceive are such as unto which there is required in whomsoever they may concern a clear understanding by the Spirit so as to be able to say I have the minde of Christ and Thus speaks the Lord and not I. A true Power of Authority as well as Ability to do that work which they say by the Spirit is their duty to do Luke 24.45 49. Acts 4.7 Matth. 9.6 8. A clear evidence and manifestation thereof not onely in themselves but to manifest to others for their profit 1 Cor. 12.7 Now if there be such Believers who not onely touching their own personal estate and condition but also touching Visible Administrations of Publike Worship can say in truth by the Spirit We have the minde of Christ and This speaks the Lord and not we and have also a true and lawful authority to act those things they say they know I shall leave such persons to the trial of their spirits and not doubt but to be able to see that spirit demonstrating it self to the world either in them or others to the praise and glory of the God and Father of spirits In the mean time I shall conceive that whatsoever in the Word is required of believers to do personally as believers that ought to be endeavoured after by every one that is truely so But whatsoever is relatively appropriated to persons as such and such due regard is to be had to God's Order and Dispensation there according to the limits and bounds he hath set Better it is to be fed of Ravens or fast fourty days then distrusting God's provision turn stones into bread Read 1 Sam. 13.11 12 13 a fair pretence but he that believeth maketh not haste Quest Whether those Signes and Wonders whereby God manifested his presence with the Apostles Quest were not rather to confirm their Word and Doctrine then to bear witness to their persons being sent Heb. 2.4 Answ It is in my understanding a truth Answ that those Signes and Wonders were to confirm their Word and Doctrine Mark 16.20 but the case is evident that the works which God wrought by them were not onely to confirm their Word but also to testifie of their Persons that they were sent of God Joh. 5.36 The works which the Father hath given me to finish the same works that I do bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me compared with Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent forth me so I send forth you Joh. 17.18 If the Father sent forth Christ and the works which Christ did testified of him that he was sent of God Joh. 11.42 then Christ sending forth his Disciples as the Father sent forth him Acts 4.13 14 16 the works which they do testifie of them that they are sent of Christ as the works which he did testified of him that he was sent of God 2 Cor. 12.12 The signes of an Apostle were wrought among you c. Quest Seeing gifts are given to profit withal Quest and talents to be improved How according to Rule and Order may the Saints edifie one another and improve their talents for the honour of Jesus Christ out of a Church-estate 1 Cor. 12.7 Answ Such as the gifts and talents be which are given Answ such must the improvement of them be for the honour of Christ I pray you consider the Scripture you have quoted 1 Cor. 12. Where those gifts of the Spirit which are there spoken of are to be found there need not be any care taken how to improve them out of a Church for surely then and there will be a glorious Church where and when those gifts of the Spirit are given to profit with Where there is given by the Spirit a word of Wisdom a word of Knowledge a gift of Faith a gift of Healing a gift of Miracles a gift of Prophecie a gift of discerning of Spirits a gift of Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues when the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every one to profit withal as the Scripture expresseth then there will be an Orderly Administration and an Effectual Operation to the honour of Jesus Christ In the mean time I could desire the Lord's people to consider of that thing they call Gift or Gifts and try by what Name or Title they may be distinguished or called Whether any of these before mentioned or some other If not these but some other I would consider what it is Whether it be given to them to believe Phil. 1.29 to hope joy suffer pray to distribute to the Lord 's poor to bear the burden of the afflicted to mourn over the desolations of the Israel of God to wait for the Day of Restoration to long to groan in expectation for the Day of the Lord. Now if the gifts you speak of be of the first kinde mentioned in 1 Cor. 12. they bring manifestation enough with them to direct to the improvement of them and where-ever they are found surely a Church of Christ is not far off If they be of the later sort I conceive the Spirit of the Lord whose gifts they are is not wanting to manifest to such to whom they are given how they in their measure may be improved to the glory of him that is the author of them But yet a few words more particularly to what I conceive may be the scope of the Question The Apostle in 1 Cor. 10.6 11. speaking of the Jews and that which befel them saith Those things happened to them in types and Whatsoever was written before-time was written for our learning Now it is to be noted that in their travelling condition while they were