hath then neede of much confession bitter teares a sharpe combat of watching Idem Am. ad virg lap cap. 8. Orat. in sanct lum and vncessant and continued fasting if the offence were light and more tollerahle yet let the penance be equall vnto it S. Gregory Nazianzen saith It is as great an euill to pardon without some punishment as to punish without all pittie For as that doth loose the bridle to all licentiousnes so this doth straine it too much Idem de paup amor By compassion on the poore and faith sinnes are purged therefore let vs be cleansed by this compassion let vs scoure out the spottes and filth of our soules with this egregious herbe that makes it white some as woole others as snowe according to the proportion of euery mans compassion and almes De helia â—â—eiun S. Ambrose saith We haue many helpes whereby we may redeeme our sinnes hast thou mony Redeeme thy sinne not that our Lord is to be bought and solde but thou thyselfe art solde by thy sinnes redeeme thy selfe with thy workes redeeme thee with thy mony Epist 82. And How could we be saued vnlesse we washed away our sinnes by fasting S. Hierome maketh Paula a blessed Matron say My face is to be disfigured which against the commandement of God I painted my body is to be afflicted that hath taken so great pleasure my often laughter is to be recompenced with continuall weeping Ad Eusioch de obitu Paule my silkes and soft cloathing is to be chaunged into rough haire Reade another Epistle of his to the same Eustochium about the preseruing of her virginity and see what penance himselfe did being a most vertuous young man Epist 54. S. Augustine saith He that is trulie penitent lookes to nothing else then that he leaues not vnpunished the sinne which he committed For by that meanes not sparing our selues he whose high and iust iudgement no contemptuous person can escape doth spare vs. Li 50. hom Hom. 50. cap. 11. Cap. 15. And he sheweth how that a penitent sinner doth come to the Priest and receiue of him the measure of his satisfaction And saith directly against our Protestants position That it is not sufficient to amend our manners and to depart from the euill which we haue committed vnlesse we doe also satisfie God for those thinges which we had donne Lib. 6. in 1. Reg. S. Gregory saith That sinnes are not only to be confessed but to be blotted out with the austerity of penance I will close vp these testimonies with this sentence of our learned countriman venerable Bede In Psal 1. Delight saith he or desire to sinne when we doe satisfaction is lightly purged by almesdeedes and such like but consent is not rubbed out without great penance now custome of sinning is not taken away but by a iust and heauie satisfaction And if you please in fewe wordes to heare the Protestants workes of penance and satisfaction In steede of our fasting and other corporall correction they fall to eating and that of the best flesh they can get and take in the Lord all such bodely pleasure as the company of a woman will afforde In lieu of giuing almes vnto the poore they pill them by fines and vnreasonable rents and by vsury and crafty bargaines are not ashamed to cousen their nearest kinne Finally in place of prayer and washing away their owne sinnes by many bitter teares they sing meerely a Geneua Psalme and raile or heare a rayling at our imagined sinnes or pretended errours And so leaue and lay all payne and sorrowe vpon Christs shoulders thinking themselues belike to be borne to pleasure and pastime and to make merry in this worlde FIRST OF TRADITIONS M. PARK pag. 134. Traditions are doctrines deliuered from hand to hand either by worde of mouth or writing besides the written word of God OVR CONSENT WE Hold that the very word of God was deliuered by Tradition from ADAM to MOSES who was the first Pen-man of holy Scripture Item that the Historie of the New Testament as some for eight not eightie or as other thinke for twentie yeares went from hand to hand by Tradition till penned by the Apostles or being penned by others was approoued by them Hitherto we agree but not in this which he interlaceth that in the state of Nature euery man was instructed of God immediatly in both matters of faith and religion For that God then as euer since vsed the ministerie aswel of good fathers as godly masters as ENOCH NOE ABRAHAM and such like to teach their children and seruants the true worship of God true faith in him otherwise how should the word of God passe by Tradition froÌ„ ADAM to MOSES as M. P. affirmeth If no childe learned anie such thing of his Father but was taught immediatly from God but M. P. seemeth to regard little such pettie contradictions His 2. concl We hold that the Prophets our Sauiour Christ his Apostles spake did many things good true which were not written in the Scriptures but came to vs by Tradition but these were not necessary to be beleeued For one example he puts that the B. Virgin MARY liued dyed a Virgin but it is necessarie to saluation to beleeue this for HELVIDIVS is esteemed by S. AVGVSTINE an Heretike for denying it * De haeres ad Quod. li. 84. His 3. Concl. We hold that the Church of God hath power to prescribe Ordinances Traditions touching time place of Gods worship And touching order comelinesse to be vsed in the same mary with these foure caueats First that it prescribe nothing childish or absurd See what a reuerent opinion this man carryeth of the Church of God gouerned by his holy spirit that it neuerthelesse may prescribe things both childish absurde But I must pardon him because he speaketh of his owne Synagogue which is no part of the true Church Secondly that it be not imposed as anie part of Gods worship This is contrarie to the conclusion for order and comelinesse to be vsed in Gods worship which the Church can prescribe is some part of the worship Thirdly that it be seuered from superstition c. This is needelesse for if it be not absurd which was the first prouiso it is alreadie seuered from superstition The fourth touching multitude may passe these be but meere trifles That is of more importance that he tearmeth the decree registred in the xv of the Actes of the Apostles a Tradition whereas before he desined Traditions to be all doctrine deliuered besides the written worde Now the Actes of the Apostles is a parcell of the written word as all the world knowes That then which is of record there cannot be tearmed a Tradition THE DIFFERENCE CAtholikes teach that besides the written Worde there be certaine vnwritten Traditions which must be beleeued practised as both profitable and necessarie to saluation We hold that the Scriptures
containe in them all doctrine needfull to saluation whether it concerne faith or maners and acknowledge no Traditions for such as hee who beleeueth them not cannot be saued Before wee come to the Protestants reasons against Traditions obserue that we deuide Traditions into three sorts The first we tearmed Diuine because they were deliuered by our blessed Sauiour who is God The second Apostolicall as deliuered by the holy Apostles The third Ecclesiasticall instituted and deliuered by the Gouernours of the Church after the Apostles daies And of these three kindes of Traditions we make the same account as of the writings of the same Authors to wit we esteeme no lesse of our Sauiours Traditions than of the soure Gospels or any thing immediatly dictated from the holy Ghost Likewise asmuch honor credit do we giue vnto the Apostles doctrine vnwritten as writtē For incke paper brought no new holines nor gaue any force and vertue vnto either Gods on the Apostles words but they were of the same value and credit vttered by word of mouth as if they had bene written Here the question is principally of diuine Traditions which we hold to be necessarie to saluation to resolue determine many matters of greater difficultie For we deny not but that some such principall poynts of our Faith which the simple are bounde to beleeue vnder paine of damnation may bee gathered out of the holie Scriptures as for example that God is the Creator of the world Christ the Redeemer of the world the Holy Ghost the Sanctifier and other such like Articles of the Creede M. P. goeth about to prooue by these reasons following that the Scriptures containes all matter of beleefe necessary to saluation Testimonie * Deut. 4.2 Thou shalt not adde to the words that I command thee nor take any thing there from Therefore the written worde is sufficient for all doctrine pertaining to saluation If it be saide that this is spoken as well of the vn-written as written worde for there is no mention in the texte of the written worde then M. P. addeth that it must bee vnderstood of the written worde onely because these wordes are as a certaine preface set before a long Comentarie made vpon the written Law ANSWERE Let the words be set where you will they must not bee wrested beyond their proper signifycation The words cited signifie no more then that wee must not either by addition or subtraction change or peruert Gods commandements whether they be written or vnwritten Now to infer that because they areas a preface vnto MOSES Law that therfore nothing must be added vnto the same Law is extreame dotage Why then were the bookes of the Old Testament written afterward if God had forbidden any more to be written or taught besides that one booke of Deuteronomy Shall we thinke that none of the Prophets that liued and wrote many volumes after this had not read these words or that they either vnderstood them not or that vnderstanding them well did wilfullie transgresse against them one of these the Protestants must needes defend or else for very shame surcease the alleadging of this text for the all-sufficiencie of the written word M. P. His testimonie * Esa 8.2 ◠To the Law and testimonie if they speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Here the Prophet teacheth saith M. P. What is to be done in cases of difficultly men must not runne to the Wizardes and Soothsayers but to the Lawe and to the Testimonie commending the written word as sufficient to resolue all doubts whatsoeuer ANSWERE By the Lawe and testimonie in that place the fiue bookes of MOSES are to bee vnderstood if that written Worde bee sufficient to resolue all doubts what-so-euer What neede wee then the Prophets what neede wee the Euangelists and the Epistles of the Apostles What Wizarde would haue reasoned in such sorte The Prophet willeth there that the Israelites who wanted wit to discerne whether it be better to flie vnto God for councell than vnto Wizardes and Sooth-sayers to see what is written in the Lawe of MOSES concerning that poynt of consulting-Wizards which is there plainely forbidden in diuerse places Now out of one particular case whereof there is expresse mention in the written worde to conclude that all doubts and scruples whatsoeuer are thereby to be decided is a most vnskilfull parte arguing as great want of light in him as was in those blinde Israelites 3. Testimonie * Iohn 20.31 These things were written that ye might beleue that IESVS is the CHRIST and in beleeuing might haue life euerlasting Here is set down the full end of the Gospell that is to bring men to faith and consequently to saluation to which the whole scripture alone is sufficient without Traditions ANSWERE Here are more faults than lines First the text is craftily mangled Things being put insteede of Miracles For S. IOHN sayeth Many other Miracles CHRIST did c. but these were written c. Secondly S. IOHN sayth not that for faith we shall be saued but beleeuing we should haue saluation in his name which hee clipped off thirdly remember to what faith S. IOHN ascribes the meanes of our saluation not to that whereby we applie vnto our selues Christs righteousnes but by which we beleeue IESVS to be CHRIST the MESSIAS of the Iewes and the Sonne of God which M. P. also concealed Now to the present matter S. IOHN saith that these miracles recorded in his Gospell were written that wee might beleeue IESVS to bee the Sonne of God and beleeuing haue saluation in his name c. Therefore the written word containes all doctrine necessarie to saluation ANSWERE S. IOHN speakes not a word of doctrine but of myracles and therefore to conclude sufficiencie of doctrine out of him is not to care what one sayeth But M. P. sore-seeing this sayeth it cannot be vnderstood of miracles onely for miracles without the doctrine of CHRIST can bring no man to life euerlasting True and therefore that texte speaking onely of myracles prooueth nothing for the sufficiencie of the written Worde CHRISTS miracles were sufficient to prooue him to bee the Sonne of GOD and their MESSIAS But that prooueth not Saincte IOHNS Gospel to containe al Doctrine needful to saluation For many other poynts of faith must be beleeued also And if it alone be sufficient what neede we the other three Gospelles the Actes of the Apostles or any of their Epistles or the same S. IOHNS Reuelations Finallie admit that S. IOHNS Gospell were all-sufficient yet should not Traditions be excluded for Christ sayeth in it in plaine tearmes * Ioh. 16. that he had much more to saye vnto his Apostles but they as then being not able to be are it he reserued that to be deliuered vnto them afterward of which high mysteries S. IOHN recordeth not much in his Gospell after Christs resurrection and so many of them must needes be deliuered by
this wee must beleeue that there is nothing else which wee may beleeue ANSWERE By the Gospell there is vnderstood all our Christian doctrine written and vnwritten and not onelie the written worde of the foure Euangelists else wee should not beleeue the Actes of the Apostles or their Epistles no more than Traditions which Christian doctrine written and vnwritten we onely beleeue by diuine faith to all other Authors we giue such credit as their writings do deserue If anie man desire to see TERTVLLIANS judgement of Traditions let him read his booke of prescriptions against Heretikes where he auerreth that Traditions serue better than the Scriptures themselues to confute all Heresies Heretikes alwaies either not allowing all the bookes of Scripture or else peruerting the sense and meaning of the Scriptures And in his booke De Corona militis he formallie proposeth this question Whether Traditions vnwritten are to be admitted or no and answereth by manie instances that they must be receiued concluding thus For these and the like poynts if thou require law out of the Scriptures thou shalt finde none but Tradition is alleadged to be the Author of them Custome the confirmer and Faith the obseruer So that nothing is more certaine than that TERTVLLIAN thought vnwritten Traditions necessarie to be beleeued Come we now vnto his second testimonie out of S. IEROM * In cap. 23 Mat. who writing as he saith of an opinion that S. IOHN Baptist was killed because he foretold the comming of Christ the good-man would saye ZACHARIE S. IOHNS Father for the Scripture sheweth plainely why S. IOHN lost his head * Mat. 14 But S. IEROM there sayeth this Because it hath not authoritie from Scriptures may as easelie be contemned as approoued But of which particular M. P. shewing himselfe a doughtie Logician would inforce an vniuersall that sorsooth all may be contemned that is not proued by Scripture As if you would prooue no Protestant to bee skilfull in the art of true reasoning because M. P. behaues himselfe in it so vnskilfully But S. IEROM in the same place declareth why that might be as easely reprooued as allowed not hauing anie ground in the Scripture because saith he It is taken out of the dreames of some Apocryphall writings opposing Scripture to other improoued writings and not to approoued Traditions to which hee saith in his Dialogues against the Luciferians before the middle That the Church of God doth attribute the like authoritie as it doth vnto the written Law M. P. His third Author is S. AVGVSTINE * Lib. 2. de doct Chri. cap. 9. In those things which are plainely set downe in Scriptures are found all those poynts which containe faith and maners of liuing well ANSWERE All things necessarie to be beleeued of euerie simple Christian vnder paine of damnation that is the Articles of our Beleefe are contayned in the Scriptures but not the resolution of harder matters much lesse of all difficulties which the more learned must expressely beleeue if they will be saued which distinction S. AVGVSTINE else-where doth signifie * De peccatorū meritis cap. vlt. And is gathered out of manie other places of his workes as in that matter of rebaptizing them who became Catholikes after they had bene baptized by Heretikes He saith * Lib. 5. de bapt contra Donat. cap. 23. The Apostles truely haue commanded nothing hereof in their writings but that custome which was layed against S. CYPRIAN is to bee beleeued to haue flowed from an Apostolicall tradition as there be many things which the vniuersall Church holdeth and therefore are to be beleeued The same saith he of the custome of the Church in Baptizing infants * De genes ad litra lib. 10. cap. 23. And in his Epist 174. of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is not in the holy Scripture and yet neuerthelesse is defended to be vsed in the assertion of faith As also saieth he we neuer read in those bookes that the Father is vnbegotten and yet wee hold that he is so to be called * Lib. 3. cap 3. cont max Arianum And S. AVGVSTINE holdes that the holie Ghost is to be adored though it be not written in the word The like of the perpetuall Virginitie of our B. Ladie * Haeresi 4. out of which and many more such like we gather most manifestlie that S. AVGVSTINE thought many matters of faith not to be contayned in the written worde but to be taken out of the Churches treasurie of Traditions M. P. His last testimonie is taken out of Vincentius Lirinensis who sayth as he reporteth that the Canon of the Scripture is perfecte and fullie sufficient for all things ANSWERE I thinke that there is no such sentence to be found in him he saies by way of objection What neede we make recourse vnto the authoritie of the Ecclesiasticall vnderstanding if the Canon of the Scripture be perfect Hee affirmeth not that they be fullie sufficient to determine all controuersies in religion but throughout all his booke he prooues the cleane contrarie that no heresie can be certainelie confuted and suppressed by only Scriptures without we take with it the sense and interpretation of the Catholike Church Thus M. P. hauing ended with the Law Testimonie addeth in a postscript two other slender reasons vnto his former The first that Christ and his Apostles vsed alwaies to confirme their doctrine with the testimonies of Scriptures and not with Tradition ANSWERE Fist for our Sauiour CHRIST IESVS he out of his diuine wisdome deliuered his doctrine most commonly in his owne name But I saye vnto you And verie seldome confirmeth it with any testimonie out of the Law The Euangelists do often note how CHRIST fulfilled the old prophecies but neuer or very seldome seeke to confirme his doctrine by testimonies their owne they doe sometimes but to saye they neuer wrote any thinge out of Tradition proceedes of most grosse ignorance Where had Saint MATHEVV the adoring of the Sages S. IOHN Baptists preaching briefelie that was done before his owne conuersion but by Tradition S. MARK wrote the most part of his Gospell out of Tradition receiued from S. PETER as witnesseth EVSEBIVS * Lib. 2. hist cap. 14. S. LVLE testifyeth of himselfe that he wrote his whole Gospell * Cap. 1. as he had receiued it by Tradition from them who were eye-witnesses What desperate carelesnesse was it then to affirme that the Apostles neuer vsed Tradition to confirme any doctrine when some of them built not onely parcels but their whole Gospels vpon Traditions His other reason is that if we beleeue vnwritten Traditions were necessarie to saluation then we must aswell beleeue the writings of the auncient Fathers as the writings of the Apostles because Apostolicall Traditions are not else-where to be sound but in their bookes but that were absurde for they might erre ANSWERE That doth not follow for three causes First Apostolicall Traditions are aswel kept in
giuen any credit vnto the Apostles doctrine vnlesse by S. PETER and the other Apostles it had bene first examined and approoued * Tertal li. 4. in M rc Hierom. ep 89. que est 11. inter ep Augustinâ— August lib 28. cont faâ—st c. 4 Againe when there arose a most dangerous question of Abrogating MOSES Lawe Was it left to euerie Christian to decide by the written Worde Or would many of the faithful beleeue S. PAVL that worthie Apostle in the matter Not so but vp they went to Ierusalem to heare what the Pillers of the Church would saye Where by the decree of the Apostles in counsell the controuersie was ended Which S. PAVL afterward deliuered in his Preaching commanding all to obserue and keepe the decree and ordinance of the Apostles * Act. 16. And if it would not be tedious I could in like maner shew how in like sort euery hundreth yeere after errors and heresies rising by misconstruction of the written Word they were confuted and rejected not by the written Worde onely but by the sentence and declaration of the Apostles Schollers and successors See Cardinall BELLARMINE * Tom. 1 lib 3. cap 6 I will onely recorde two noble examples of this recourse vnto Antiquitie for the true sense of Gods word The first out of the Ecclesiasticall Historie * Lib. 11. cap. 9 whereof Saint GREGORY NAZIANZEN and Saint BASIL two principall lights of the Greeke Church this is recorded They were both noble men brought vp together at Athens And afterwarde for thirteene yeeres space laying aside all profaine bookes imployed their studie wholie in the holy Scriptures The sense and true meaning whereof they sought not out of their owne Iudgement and presumption as the Protestants both doe and teach others to doe but out of their Predecessors writings and authoritie namelie of such as were knowen to haue receiued the rule of vnderstanding from the Tradition of the Apostles These be the verie wordes The other example shall be the principall pillar of the Latine Church S. AVGVSTINE who not only exhorteth aduiseth vs to follow the decree of the auncient Church if we will not be deceiued with the obscuritie of doubtful questions * Lib. cont Crescon cap. 33. but plainely affirmeth That he would not beleeue the Gospel if the authoritie of the Church did not mooue him vnto it * Cont. ep fund c. 5. Which words are not to be vnderstood as Caluin would haue them that S. AVGVSTINE had not bene at first a Christian if by the authoritie of the Church hee had not bene thereunto perswaded but that when he was a learned and Iudicious Doctor and did write against Heretikes euen then he would not beleeue these bookes of the Gospell to haue bene penned by diuine inspiration and no others and this to be the true sense of them vnlesse the Catholike Church famous then for antiquitie generallity and consent did tell him which and what they were So farre was he off from trusting to his owne skill and judgement in this matter which notwithstanding was most excellent This matter is so large that it requireth a whole question but being penned vp within the compasse of one objection I will not dwell any longer in it but here fold-vp this whole question of Traditions in the authorities of the auncient Fathers out of whom because I haue in answering M. P. and else-where as occasion serued cited alreadie many sentences I will here be briefe S. IGNATIVS the Apostles Scholler doth exhort all Christians * Euseb lib 30.36 To sticke fast vnto the Traditions of the Apostles some of which he committed to writing POLICARPVS by the authoritie of the Apostles words which he had receiued from their owne mouthes confirmed the faith full in trueth and ouerthrew the Heretikes * Ibid. lib 5 cap. 20. S. IRENEVS who imprinted in his heart Apostolicall Traditions receiued from POLICARP sayeth * If there should be a controuersie about any meane question ought wee not to runne vnto the most auncient Churches in the which the Apostles had conuersed and from them take that which is cleere and perspicuous to define the present question For what if the Apostles had not written any thing at all must we not haue followed the order of Traditions which they deliuered to them to whom they deliuered the Churches ORIGEN teacheth that the Church receiued from the Apostles by Tradition to baptize Infants * Rom. 6 ATHANASIVS sayeth e Lib. de decret Nâ—caeni conâ— We haue prooued this sentence to haue bene deliuered from hand to hand by Fathers to Fathers but ye O new Iewes and sonnes of Caiphas what Auncestors can ye shew of your opinion S. BASIL hath these words * De Spâ— Sanct. c. 2 We haue the doctrine that is kept and preached in the Church partly written and part we haue receiued by Tradition of the Apostles in mysterie both which be of the same force to godlinesse and no man opposeth against these who hath at the least but meane experience of the Lawes of the Church See GREGORY NAZIANZ Orat. 1. in Iulian. Because I haue cited alreadie some of the Latine Auncient Doctors Insteede of the rest I will recorde out of them in a worde or two how olde rotten Heretikes vsed alwaies to reject vnwritten Traditions and flie wholy vnto the written worde See the whole booke of TERTVLLIANS prescriptions against Heretikes which principally handleth this verie poynt The same doth IRENEVS witnesse of the Valentinians and Marcionis * Lib. 3. c. 2 The Arrians common song vnto the Catholikes was I will not admit to be read any words that are not written in the Scriptures as witnesseth S. HILARY in his booke against CONSTANTIVS the Emperour against whom he alleadgeth the preaching of the Apostles and the authoritie of the auncient Bishops expressed in his liuely colours S. AVGVSTINE some thousand two hundreth yeeres agoe recordeth the very forme of arguing which the Protestants vse now-a-daies in the person of Maximinus an Arrian in his first booke against him in the beginning If thou shalt saith this Heretike bring any thing out of the Scriptures which is common to all wee must needes heere thee but these wordes which are without the Scriptures are in no sorte to bee receiued of vs when as the Lorde himselfe hath admonished vs and said in vaine doe they worship me teaching commandements and precepts of men How S. AVGVSTINE opposed against them vnwritten Traditions hath ben afore declared The like doth S. BERNARD affirme of certaine Heretikes of his time called * Hom. 62 Cantica Apostolici So that most truely it may be concluded that euen as we Catholikes haue learned of the Apostles and auncient Fathers our noble progenitors to stand fast and hold the Traditions which we haue receiued by worde of mouth aswell as that which is written Euen so the Protestants haue receiued as it were from hand to hand of their
inherent in the soule of Man any such grace of God as doth cleanse it from sinne and make the man just in his sight is with them to raze the foundation of Religion and to make Christ a Pseudochrist wherein I knowe not whether they be more enuious against the good of Man then they are injurious eyther to the inestimable value of Christes bloud as though it coulde not deserue any better estate for his fauourites or vnto the vertue and efficacie of the holy Ghost as not being able by likeliehood to purge mens soules from sinne and endue them with such Heauenlie qualities I omitte the disgrace thereby donne to the Blessed God-head it selfe making the Holie of Holies rather willing to couer and cloake our iniquitie then to cure it And contrarie to his infinite goodnes to loue them whom he seeth defiled with all maner of abhominations Vnto these paradoxes impious against God and slaunderous to Man If it will please your Majestie to adde the prophane carnallity of some other points of the Protestant Doctrine you will doubtles in short time loath it As for example That it is as good godlie by eating to feede the body as to chastize it by fasting That it is as holy to fulfill the fleshly desires of it by Mariage as by Continencie to mortifie them yea that it is flatte against the word of GOD to vowe Virginitie And also contrarie to his blessed will to bestowe our goodes on the poore and to giue our selues wholy to prayer and fasting All which this Aduocate of the English Congregation teacheth expreslie Pag. 132. 162. 166. Is this the purity of the Gospell Or is it not rather the high way to Epicurisme and to all worldly vanity and iniquitie I need not joyne hereunto that they teach it to be impossible to keepe Gods Commaundements and therefore in vaine to goe about it And farther that the best worke of the righteous man is defiled with sinne Wherefore as good for him to leaue all vndone as to doe any Nay if this position of others were true it would followe necessarily that all men were bound vnder payne of damnation neuer to doe any good deede so long as they liue for that their good deede being stayned with sinne cannot but deserue the hyre of sinne which according to the Apostle is Death euerlasting If your Majesties important affaires Rom. 6. would once permitte you to consider maturely of these impieties and many other like absurdities wherewith the Protestant Doctrine is stuffed I dare be bold to say that you would speedely either commaund them to reforme themselues and amend their errors or fairly giue them their Congie I will close vp this my second reason with this Epiphoneme That it is impossible for a Protestant firmely cleauing to the groundes of his owne Religion to hope for anie saluation For they doe and needes must graunt that no man can be saued without a liuely faith and also that a liuely faith cannot be without charity for otherwise it were dead Now then to the purpose No Protestant can haue charity for as witnesseth S. Iohn 1. Epis cap. 5. 3. This is the charitie of God that we keepe his commaundements But it is impossible according to the Protestants to keepe the commaundements therefore also impossible to haue charity Which is the fulnes of the lawe Rom. 13. consequently impossible to haue a liuely faith which cannot be without charity And so finally through want of that liuely feeling faith whereby they should lay hold on Christs righteousnes to hale and apply that vnto themselues they can haue no hope at all of any fauour and grace at Gods handes Without which they must needes assure themselues of eternal damnation in steede of their pretended certayntie of saluation To these two argumēts gathered out of the treatise following I adde a third collected from these your owne memorable wordes related in the aboue named conference viz. Are we nowe come to that passe Pag. 69. that we must appeache Constantine of Poperie and superstition Which argueth that your Majestie judgeth them to haue litle regard of either piety or ciuility that would admit such a thought into their mind as that the first Christian Emperour our most renowmed countriman should be nousled brought vp in superstitiō wherein your Majestie hath great reason for he was most carefully instructed taught the Christian Religion by such holy Confessors whose sincerity in faith had bin tried in the hotte furnace of many strange persecutions And he farther had the good happe to see and heare together in the first generall Councell of Nice many of the holiest and best learned Bishops of Christendome Therefore is it most vnlikely that so Royall a Person deuoted to Religion and hauing so good meanes to attayne to the perfect knowledge thereof as no man could haue better should neuerthelesse in the purest time of it be mis-ledde into errour and superstition If then it may be proued that this most Christian Emperor the glittering ornament of our noble Iland did beleeue such articles of the present Roman Church as the Protestants teach not to be beleeued Will not your Majestie rather joyne in faith with so peerles a Prince who by the consent of all antiquity was for certayne right well enformed then with these whome doubtles most men deeme to be pittifully deceiued Nowe that Constantine was of the same opinion in matter of Religion with the present Church of Rome may euidently be gathered out of this that followeth First he was so affectionate vnto the signe of the Crosse that he would haue it gloriously appeare both abroade in his banners and at home in his Pallace Euseb de vita Constan lib. 3. cap. 2. Lib 2. c. r 4. Lib. 4. c. 26. and in the middest of the Citie of Rome with this Poesie In this signe of saluation I haue deliuered the Cittie With it also he blessed his visage With fasting and other corporall affliction he chastized his body that he might please God He with incredible admiration honoured professed Virgins and made lawes in their fauour Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 47. alibi Chry. hom 66. ad pop Antioch He builded many Churches in honour of the Apostles and Martirs And as S. Chrysostome recordeth He that was reuested in purple went to embrace the Sepulchres of S. Peter and S. Paul and all Princely state laide aside stood humbly praying vnto the Saints that they would be intercessors for him vnto God He farther tooke order for the burying of his owne body in the middest of the Tombes of the twelue Apostles that after his death he might be partaker of the prayers Euseb in vita Const lib. 4. ca. 60. Ibid cap. 71. which should be there offered in the honour of the Apostles Neither was he frustrated of his holy desire for as it followeth in the 71. Chapter of the same booke at his funerals the people joyning with the
the 7. heades of the beast to be aswell 7. Kings as 7. hilles But this notwithstanding to helpe you foreward I will graunt it you because some good writers haue so taken it And therefore omit as impertinēt that which you say in proofe of it What can you inferre hereupon Mary that the Roman Church is that whoore of Babilon fayre soft good Sir how proue you that thus The whoore of Babilon is a state of the Roman regiment ergo the Roman Church is the whoore of Babilon What forme of arguing call you me this By the like sophistication you may proue that Romulus Remus were the purple Harlot which to affirme were ridiculous or which is impious that the most Christian Emperours Constantine and Theodosius were the whoore of Babilon because these held also the state of the Roman Empire and regiment to make short the feeble force of this reason lyeth in this that they who hold the state and gouerne in the same Kingdome must needes be of like affection in Religion which if it were necessarie then did Queene Mary of blessed memorie and her sister Elizabeth carrie the same mindes towards the true Catholike faith because they sate in the same chaire of estate ruled in the same Kingdome See I pray you what a shamefull cauill this is to raise such outcryes vpon A simple Logician would blush to argue in the paruies so loosely yet they that take vpon them to controule the learnedst in the world often fall into such open fallacies Well then admitting the purple Harlot to signifie the Roman state we doe say that the state of Rome must be taken as it was then when these wordes were spoken of it that is Pagan Idolatrous and a hot persecutor of Christians Such it had beene a litle before vnder that bloudy Tyrant Nero and then was vnder Domitian which we confirme by the authority of them who expounde this passage of the Roman state The commentary on the Apocalips vnder Saint Ambrose name sayeth the great whoore sometime doth signifie Rome specially which at that time when the Apostle wrote this did persecute the Church of GOD but otherwise In c. 178. doth signifie the whole Citie of the Diuell And Saint Ierome who applieth the place to Rome affirmeth Libr. 2 cont Iouin that she had before his dayes blotted out that blasphemie written in her forehead because then the state was Christian which before had beene Heathen so that vnto the partie Pagan and not vnto the Church of God he ascribeth these works of the wicked Harlot which also the very text it selfe doth conuince Vers 6. for it hath That she was drunke with the bloud of the Martyrs of Iesus Now the Church of Rome hath not then by the confession of all men drawne any bloud of Christs Saints but in testimony of his truth had powred out abundance of her best bloud Wherefore it is most manifest that the harlot could not signifie the Church of Rome so pure and free from slaughter but the Roman Empire which was then ful gorged with that most innocent and holy bloud Againe that whoore is expounded Vers 18. To be a Citie which had kingdome ouer the Kings of the earth But the Church of Rome had then no kingdome ouer the earth or any temporall dominion at all but the Roman Emperours had such soueraigne commaundement ouer many Kings wherefore it must be vnderstood of them and not of the Church Now to take Kingdome not properly for temporall soueraignty but for spirituall Iurisdiction as some shifters doe is to flie without any warrant from the natiue signification of the word vnto the phantasticall and voluntary imagination And whereas M. PERKINS saith pag. 5. that Ecclesiasticall Rome in respect of state princely dominion and cruelty against the Saints is all one with the heathenish Empire he both seeketh to deceiue and is greatly deceiued he would deceiue in that he doth apply wordes spoken of Rome aboue 1500. yeares agoe vnto Rome as it is at this day and yet if that were graunted him he erreth foulie in euery one of his particles For first touching princely dominion the Roman Empire held then all Italy all France all Spayne all England a great part of Germany of Asia and also of Afrike hauing their Proconsulles and other principall Officers in all those Countries drawing an hundred thousand millions in mony and many other commodities out of them Wherefore in princely dominion and magnificall state it surmounted Ecclesiasticall Rome which hath not temporall dominion ouer the one halfe of that one kingdome of Italy more then an hundred degrees And as for persecution the Empire slewe and caused to be slayne more Saints of God in one yeare then the Church of Rome hath donne of reprobates and obstinate heretikes in 1600. yeares Hauing thus proued that the whoore of Babilon signifieth the heathen state of Rome and not the Ecclesiasticall let vs now heare vvhat you ay against it Marry that the distinction of the Empire of Rome and Church of Rome is foolish and coyned of late to serue our turne which to be farre otherwise I proue out of those very Authors who doe interpret that harlot to signifie Rome who are neither foolish nor of late dayes you haue heard it before out of S. Ambrose cōmentaries And farther we gather it out of S. Hierome in the Epistle which you cite for he hauing resembled Rome vnto Babilon for the multitude of the wicked which yet remayned in it pointeth out a more pure part saying There is in deede the holy Church there are the triumphant monuments of the Apostles and Martirs there is the true confession of Christ there is the faith praysed by the Apostle c. Be not there expressed two distinct parts of Rome Againe Tertullian who liued in the second hundreth yeare vnder those persecuting Emperours saith in one place that Babilon is a figure of Rome Lib. cont Iud. De prescript c. 16 in respect of her proude Empire and persecution of the Saints And in an other that Rome was most happie for her holy Church vnto which the Apostles with their bloud had poured forth their whole doctrine see a playne distinction betweene the Heathen Empire and the holy Church of Rome Which finally may be gathered out of the expresse word of God Where the Church in Babilon coelect 1. Pet. 5. is distinguished from the rest of that city which was Pagan You say but without any authour that Babilon there doth not signifie Rome but either a city in Egipt or Assyria But Eusebius lib. 2. his c. 14. S. Ierom de Eccles script vers Marcus with other Authors more worthy of credit doe expounde it of Rome And you your selues take Babilon for Rome where you thinke that any hold may be taken against it as in the 17. of the reuel but in S. Peters Epistle they wil none of it because it would proue too playnlie that S.
bookes of holy Scripture put together do contayne all necessary instruction Now then the argument followeth but some of those bookes of holy Scripture haue bene lost therefore some poynts of necessarie doctrine contayned in them are not extant in the written worde and consequently to be learned by Tradition M. P. answereth First supposing some of the bookes to be lost that all needfull doctrine which was in them is in some of the others preserued But why did he not solue the Argument proposed were then those bookes supersluous Doth the Holie Ghost set men to pen needelesse discourses which this answere supposeth Therefore he giues a second more shamefull that none be perished which is most contrary vnto the plaine Scriptures * 1. Paral. vlt. 2. Paral 9. as S. IOHN CHRYSOSTOM prooueth * Hom. 9. in Mat. E◠Hom. 7. in priorem ad Corinth where he hath these expresse words That many of the Propheticall bookes are lost may be prooued out of the historie of Paralipomeneon which they translate Cronicles Now as for M. P. gesses that some of them are yet extant but otherwise called some were but little rolles of Paper some profane and of Philosophie I holde them not worth the discussing beeing not much pertinent and avowed one in word onely without either any reason or authoritie M. P. His fourth objection of the Jewish Cabala is a meere dreame of his owne our Argument is this MOSES who was the Pen-man of the Olde Law committed not all to writing but deliuered certaine poynts needefull to saluation by Tradition nor any Law-maker that euer was in any Countrey comprehended al in letters but established many things by customes therefore not likelie that our Christian law should be all written That MOSES did not pen all thus we prooue It was as necessarie for women to be deliuered from Originall sinne as men Circumcision the remedie for men could not possible be applyed to women as euery one who knoweth what circumcision is can tell neither is there any other remedie prouided in the written law to deliuer women from that sinne Therefore some other remedie for them was deliuered by Tradition Item if the Childe were likely to die before the eight daie there was remedie for them as the most learned doe hold yet no where written in the Law Also many Gentils during that state of the Old Testament were saued as IOB and many such like according to the opinion of all the auncient Fathers yet in the Law or any other part of the Old Testament it is not written what they had to beleeue or how they should liue wherefore many things needefull to saluation were then deliuered by Tradition To that reason of his that God in his prouidence should not permit such a losse of any parte of the Scripture I answere that God permitteth much euill Againe no great losse in that according to our opinion who hold that Tradition might preserue what was then lost Now insteede of M. P. his fift reason for vs of milke and stronge meate wishing him a Messe of Pappe for his childish proposing of it I will set downe some authorities out of the written word in proofe of Traditions Our Sauiour said being at the point of his passiō * Ioh. 16.12 that he had many things to say vnto his Apostles but they could not as then beare them * Act. 10. Our Sauiour after his resurrection appeared often vnto his Disciples speaking with them of the kingdome of God of which little is written in any of the Euangelists * 1. Cor. 11 I commende you brethren that you remember me in all things and keepe the Traditions euen as I haue deliuered them to you * 1 Tim. 6. O TIMOTHY keepe the dispositum that is true which I deliuered thee to keepe * 2. Tim. 1 Hold fast by the holy ghost the good things committed vnto thee to keepe which was as S. CHRISOSTOM and THEOPHILACT expounde the true doctrine of CHRIST the true sence of holy Scriptures the right administration of the Sacramentes and gouernment of the Church To which alludeth that auncient holy Martir S. IRENEVS * Lib. 3. c. 4 saying that the Apostles layd vp in the Catholike Church as in a rich treasurie all things that belong to the trueth S. IOHN who was the last of the Apostles left aliue said * Epi. 3.13 that hee had many other things to write not idle or superfluous but would not commit them to inke and pen but referred them to be deliuered by word of mouth And to specifie for example sake some two or three poynts of greatest importance where is it written that our Sauiour the Sonne of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is of the same substance with his father Where is it written that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Sonne aswell as from the Father Where is it written that there is a Trinitie that is three persons reallie distincte in one and the very same substance And that there is in our Sauiour CHRIST IESVS no person of man but the substance of God man subsisting in the second person of the Trinitie Be not all and euerie of these principall articles of the Christian faith and most necessarie to be beleeued of the learned and yet not one of them in expresse tearmes written in any parte of the holie Bible Wherefore wee must either admit Traditions or leaue the highest mysteries of our Christian faith vnto the discretion and courtesie of euerie wrangler as shal be more declared in the argument following The sixt and last reason for Traditions Sundrie places of holy Scriptures be hard to be vnderstood others doubtfull whether they must be taken liberally or figuratiuely If then it be put to euery Christian to take his owne exposition euery seueral sect will coyne interpretations in fauour of their own opinions so shal the word of God ordayned only to teach vs the trueth be abused and made an Instrument to confirme all errors To auoide which inconuenience considerate men haue recourse vnto the Traditions and auncient Records of the Primitiue Church receiued from the Apostles and deliuered to the posteritie as the true copies of Gods word see the true Exposition and sense of it and thereby confute and reject all priuate and new glosses which agree not with those auncient and holy Comentaries So that for the vnderstanding of both difficult and doubtfull texts of Scripture Traditions are most necessarie M. P. His answere is that there is no such neede of them but in doubtfull places the Scripture it selfe is the best glosse If there be obserued first the analogie of faith which is the summe of religion gathered out of the cleerest places Secondly the circumstance of the place and the nature and signifycation of the wordes Thirdly the conference of place with place and concludeth that the Scripture is falsely tearmed the matter of strife it being not so of it selfe but by the