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A65779 Controversy-logicke, or, The methode to come to truth in debates of religion written by Thomas White, Gentleman. White, Thomas, 1593-1676. 1659 (1659) Wing W1816; ESTC R8954 77,289 240

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Sanctifications or Initiations to enter us in the other six vertues Baptisme for faith Confirmation for hope Penance to redresse the wrongs we do to God and to our neigh-bour Matrimony and Extreme-Unction to injure us to temperance and to fortify us against the terrours of death Prudence because it eminently belongeth to commanders received its proper initiation in the installing of Spirituall Gouvernours which are Priests and Bishops Who being more eminent in Science and Charity have power to governe the flocke o● Christ And to the end that emulation might not breake unity among them Christ by his owne practise and mouth gave the Primacy to Saint Peter to whose see and successour inferiour Bishops were to have recourse in all publike necessities or dissentions of the Church And who att this day is commonly called the Pope It is incredible how great encrease of devotion and Charity accrueth to Christian people by the reverent administration and faithfull reception of these sacraments What respect and awe towardes to what adhesion their teachers their doctrine what obedience to their directions in fine how great a life to the Church and eminency above such synagogues as are destitute of these holy institutions The Apostles therefore armed with these and the aforesaid powers dispersed themselves into all the quarters of the earth planting this common doctrine and practise through the universe and dying left the inheritance of the same to their successors Who in debates about doctrines and in other dissentions meeting together and finding what the Apostles had left to the Churches they had planted did cast out such as would not conforme themselves to the received Tradition And so Christians were divided The parties cast out being denominated from their Masters or particular doctrines The part adhering to the Apostles Tradition retaining the name of the Apostolike Church Which because it was as it were the whole of Christians was therefore termed Catholike or Universall These Apostles and Disciples left certaine writinges But neither by command nor with designe to deliver in any or all of them a summary of our faith but occasionally teaching what they thought requisite for some certaine place or company which the Holy Ghost intended for the comfort of the Church In which as we professe there is nothing false or uncertaine so we know the unwritten Preaching ought to be the rule of their interpretation att least negatively Neither can we vindicate those bookes from the corruption of transscribers and much lesse of Interpretours whose labours can not pretend to the authority of scripture otherwise then by a knowne conformity to the Originals Tradition therefore became the rule of faith and Councells and Apostolicall Sees became the infallible depositaries of Tradition The other Sees fayling either by the destruction of Christian Religion in those quarters or by a voluntary discession from the rule of faith the Roman See first instructed by the two chiefe Apostles and afterwardes by perpetuall correspondence with all Christian countries and their recourse to it in matters of faith and discipline remained the onely single Church which was able in vertue of perpetuall succession to testify what was the Apostles doctrine Afterwardes Heretikes confounding equivocally the names of Apostolike and Cathlick by an impudence of saying what they list without shew of reason the Catholike party hath been forced for distinction sake to adde to their Church the sirname of Roman Declaring there by that the Roman particular Church is the Head and Mistresse and cause of Vnity to all those Churches that have share in the Catholike By this linke of truth namely of receiving doctrine by succession and by the linke of Vnity in the Roman head of the Church as the Church hath hitherto stood in Persecutions Heresies and Schismes so we are assured it will never faile untill the second coming of Christ but do hope it will encrease into an universall kingdome of his to dure an unknowne extent of Ages designed in the Apocolypse by the number of a thousand yeares in great prosperity and in freedome both from Pagans without and from Heretikes with in and in great aboundance of Charity and good life This being evidently the effect of Christs coming we see that the generall good life of Mankinde which proceedeth from the knowledge of the End to which we are created and from other motives and meanes delivered by Christs doctrine was the great and onely designe for which he tooke flesh that is to be the cause to us of a happy life both in this world and in the next The which having been the main advantage of the State of Paradise or of our nature before corruption It is cleare that Christ hath repaired the fault of Adam by making whole Mankind capable of attaining everlasting blisse unto which before his coming one only family had means to arrive The settling of Mankind in this repaire restored it to such a condition in respect of God that from thenceforth he resolved to bestow his greatest benefits upon it that is eternall felicity Whereas before as long as it was in the state of sinne his decrees were for its Vniversall Damnation By which it is cleare that Christ appeased his Fathers wrath and made him a friend of a foe he had formerly been unto us So that because eternall blisse followeth out of a good life and out of a constant habit or inclination to it as likewise damnation out of the state of a sinnefull inclination formal justification and sanctity do consist in the habit of good life and the state of damnation consisteth in an habituall inclination to sinne Neither the one nor the other in an extrinsecall acceptation or refusall of the Divine Will or its arbitrary Election or dislike which are only the efficient causes from whence proportionably to their natures they depend Further because Man-kinde was not able of it selfe to gett out of the State of sinne and by consequence lay in subjection and slavery to it And seeing that Christ by the explicated meanes and actions did sett it free and gave it power to come out of that subjection and misery he did clearely Redeeme Man-kinde from this servitude of sinne and of sinnes Master the Divell and gave it the liberty wherein it was created att the first And because Christ did this by his death and by the penall actions of his life he is rightly said to have by them payed a ransome for mankind Notwithstanding this generall preparation by which Man-kinde was enabled to well-doing no particular man arriveth to any action of vertue without the speciall providence and benevolence of Almighty God By which by convenient circumstances both externall and internall he prepareth the heart of that man unto whom he is gratious and favourable to receive these common impressions and maketh it good earth fitt for the seede of his eternall cultiuatour who without any respect to former merits planteth faith and charity and all that is good in him meerely of his
Sexes dedicated to God Religious Ceremonies and all sorts of enticements to love heaven and follow good life So that the Antiquity the Protestant pretends to is of wanting wilfully those means of helping soules which the primitive Church wanted by the Violence of Persecution and the Antiquity meaned by Catholicks is of being like the Ancient Church in all things that promote vertue inwardly and outwardly The ninth Shuffle Of the Word Tradition TO Antiquity hangs Tradition that is the receiving of Doctrine and Customes from the Ancient Church The which Catholicks place in this that it is derived fom the Apostles to us by the continuall and immediate delivery of one Age to another the sons continuing their Fathers both beliefe and conversation in Christian life and treading the same paths of Salvation This was a bit of too soure a digestion for Protestants being not able to shew any Masters from whome they had received theire beliefe Yet a Tradition they must have not to be openly convinced of having forged their doctrine Some of them therefore sayed they received their doctrine by the Tradition of the Bible made unto them by the Churches continuing since the Apostles time Wherein you see an open equivocating in the word of Tradition Catholicks taking it for the delivery of doctrine that is of sense and meaning the Protestants for the delivery of a mute book or killing letter Others call Tradition the Testimony of the Fathers of all Ages and so att least divert the Question Turning the proof of Religion which is plaine and easie to every ordinary understanding into a business of learning and long study in which though they be worstted yet the People cannot see it nor descry theire falshood The tenth Shuffle Of the word Really TO descend from the Universality or defence of their whole Religiō to speciall articles of it wee shall finde them there like themselves As for example those who beare an outward respect to the Fathers finding them concurring so thick to testify Christes Body to bee in the Holy Eucharist will see me to say the same and use the word of Christ being Really and verily and truely in the Sacrament and that they onely question the manner how he is there which is lawfull amongst Catholicks to do So that you cannot almost distinguish them from Catholicks Vntil you come to explicatiō There the Catholick sayeth that Christes Body is in the sacrament as the substance of Bread was in the thing which before wee called Bread and now is no more but turned into that body wich was hanged on the Cross by an entitative and reall mutation The Protestant wil tell you that it is stil Bread and naturally and entitatively the same thing wich it was before consecration but that by faith which is a real actiō it is Christes true body to us How to justify these words that by Faith it is Christes true body is impossible unless they wil have us believe by faith what they tell us is false Therefore others say it is an assurāce of Christs Body as a bond is of mony Peradventure of enjoying Christe in Heaven But how different both senses bee from the Catholick which they seek to be thought theirs and from the natural meaning of the words every mā cā see So that the manner of being Christes Body which they question signifies whether it bee truely there or no but onely by a false apprehension they call Faith The eleventh Suffle Of the Word Sacrifice The like is of the word Sacrifice and Altar and such other In which the Catholick position makes these words proper and that the Mass is as or more properly signified by the word sacrifice as the sacrifice of the old law That there is a true and real separatiō of the body of our Saviour from his bloud and more proper to the names then nature can make which can not make a true body when the bloud is separated nor true bloud whē the body is left out wich in this sacramēt is performed and nevertheless Christe entire and untouched But a Protestāt wil tel you that whē the Holy offering is called a sacrifice it is meaned a sacrifice of praise or thanks giving that is in reality no sacrifice but an outward ceremony of praise or thāks giving others that it is a resemblāce or represētatiō of a sacrifice to wit of that of the holy Cross so that you see the differēce of the two significatiōs is no less thē whē by the same word as of Christes one means Christs Person another a Crucifix or the picture of Christe The twelfth Shuffle Of the Word Priesthood In consequēce and conformity to this they abuse the Word of Priesthood For finding al Antiquity gloriously full of this name they must also use it and finding St. Paul had too expressely taught us that a Priest was a publick Officer ordained to offer to God giftes and sacrifices and that he ought to be legitimately called to the office and that Catholiks take Priesthood in this meaning And how on the other side themselves had taken out of the Church all solemn offerings and sacrifice the business of a Priest and nevertheless shame on one side and ambition on the other egged them on to call themselves Priests they were forced to corrupt the Word sacrifice first as is declared to come to the name Priesthood So that Priesthood in the Protestant meaning is an officer chosen to sing Psalmes in the sight of the People The which how different it is from the Catholick explication of being the publick Officer of the eternall sacrifice is too plain to be declared Onely I must add that who takes ordination with the intention onely to become the chief or high singer of the Parish receiveth not Priesthood as it is meaned and used in the Catholick Church The thirteenth Shuffle Of the word Faith THe abuse of this name Faith must not bee omitted which Catholicks taking for a perswasion of such truths as are necessary to bring us to good life and salvation which perswasion wee settle upon Christes doctrine delivered unto us by Tradition of the Church The which meaning is cleare in the Apostle who expresseth himself to speak of faith that works by Charity The first Protestants took the word Faith as excluding Charity and cryed downe good works as improfitable the latter ashamed of this as destroying good life and plainly contrary to the whole designe of Scripture and Fathers took it for the same faith that Catholicks do but would have it have force precisely out of its being a persuasion and the working to follow to no effect but as a hanger on without any End whereas Catholicks make the persuasion to bee chiefly or wholly to breed Charity which is the true cause of salvation But the presbiterian party and the plainer dealing Protestants have quite changed and destroyed faith saying faith is a Persuasion that the believer must have that hee in Person is one of the
forced to take mans flesh upon him to teach it us because it was so high and transcendent beyond all that our eyes had ever seene or that our eares had ever heard or that our imaginations had ever conceiued or fancyed that a lesse authority then Gods essentiall verity was not enough to settle our beliefe upon so sublime and so admirable mysteries Now this being so can we imagin that the discussion of ambiguous words in which such incomprehensible mysteries are hidden should be left to the fancyfull changeablenesse of human apprehensions Who seeth not that mans vnderstanding must of necessity alwayes incline the ballance towardes those thinges he useth to be conversant with that he is wont to see to heare and to conceiue Which is in effect directly contrary to the reason of our Saviours coming And accordingly we dayly meete with some that laugh at the doctrine of the real presence of Christes Body in the blessed Sacrament some at the blessed Trinity euery one framing grounds to himselfe according as his fancy driveth him or as the company he cōverseth with draweth him Now if the scanning of ambiguous wordes will not serve to settle the beliefe of Christian doctrine in the hearts of mankinde It is cleare that nothing but Tradition can performe that worke since there remaineth nothing else that can pretend there to And consequently nothing but Tradition can be the meanes to plant and continue Religion in the world Lastly let us looke into the quality of this doctrine And presently it appeareth to us that it ought to comprehend all our actions and consequently ought to precede the very first of them while as yet there is no judgement in us and when we are growne to the ripenesse of judging it ought to Master our very judgement it selfe since the exercising of that is also one of our actions How then can it be supposed that Religion ought to be studied and learned like a science or skill when as it ought to be possessed even then when we begin to study and that our very study ought to be regulated by it The sixth REFLEXION That the Scripture duely read will bring a man to the truth of Religion SEeing it is agreed on by all parties that the Scriptures were written by the same spirit which guided the Apostles in their preaching There can be no doubt but that the doctrines contained in their witings must needes be conformable to what they delivered in their sermons and in other vocall instructions with this difference that there could he no dispute about their meaning in what they preached and catechised by reason of their often inculcating and plaine expressing it Whereas nothing can be more cleare then that in what they have written their sense is oftentimes obscure and very difficult to be discovered and penetrated into And therefore the Scriptures are to be interpreted by the law writtē in the heart of that Church which hath alwayes adhered to the doctrine that from time to time they have received from their predecessours though withall I have no scruple but that if the Scripture be read in such sort as it ought to be it will of it selfe bring the man who so readeth it to the true Religion The conditions that I require for the due reading of Scripture are these First that he have a sincere intention and affection to submitt his owne minde and judgement to the Scriptures and not straine them to his opinion Secondly that he have a sound understanding not apt to be carried away lightly Thirdly that he meddle with no commenter or interpreter that is more cunning then himselfe nor rely upon any thing for the minde and sense of the Scripture but what the Scripture it selfe affordeth him Fourthly that he reade it long and attentively And Lastly that what he understandeth by reading of the Scripture he endeavour to put it in practise and governe his life accordingly For practise doth wonderfully enlighten any Booke which giveth rules in any kind of operation These thinges observed I doubt not but who taketh Scripture for his rule will not faile of becoming a Catholike at the last For both the reason before delivered in the beginning of the reflexion and experience and the instances of doctrines whereof part follow and more might be brought do manifestly declare that this effect must of necessity follow To see what the Scriptures will direct us in order to Catholike doctrine Let us begin with this very question concerning the interpretation of the Scriptures themselves It is planely set downe that it ought not to be by the private spirit Pet. 2. c. 1. That Christ sett in his Church Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors Doctors for the of building his body that the faithfull may not be turned round by every blast of doctrine Ephes. 4. That the Church is the Pillar and strength of our faith These and many more texts he shall find to shew him that the interpretation of Scripture ought to depend on the Church In other places he may reade that the Scripture is usefull for our comfort for preaching and for exhorting c. But not one word of looking in it for our faith unlesse when it selfe is taken into the question That is to say when the question is whether the new Gospell be conformable to the old which is the sole matter of controversy wherein the Scripture that is to say our Saviour in the 5. of St. John and St. Paul in the 17 of the Acts directeth the searching and looking into Scriptures For in both these places this onely was the point they spoke unto If the question be of the Popes supremacy that is to say of St. Peters Primacy among the Apostles For onely so much can belong to Scripture Wee have it expressely in the 10. of St. Mathew Simon the first And so he is counted by the other two Evangelists Whereas the order of the other Apostles is not kept Wee have tribute payed for Christ and for him as a speciall officer Matth. 17. We have him forwardest in the confession of Christ Matt. 16. The Church promised to be built upon him and the keyes in a speciall manner to be delivered to him So that it is not to be wondered att if presently after the tribute was particularly payed for him We have the sheepe of Christ in a speciall wise recommended unto him John the last We have Christs prayer personally for him and a charge given him to confirme the rest Luc. 22. We have him ordering the Church in the election of St. Matthias Acts the first Him first preaching to the Jewes Acts the 2. Him first receiving the Gentiles by Gods speciall order Acts the 10. Acts the 12. the Church praying for him Hee first giveth the Holy Ghost Acts the 8. Acts the 16 he in the Councell is the first that resolveth the question So that if the Scripture be sincerely consulted in this point there is all appareance or rather evidence of St. Peters
is all one a Protestant On the other side If it be the Catholikes share to be the Defendant He is bound to make good many points That is to say all that doctrine which we maintaine to be of faith and to have received by Tradition The Conclusion therefore is that the Catholike hath much to maintaine and little to oppose The Protestant hath great choice of what to oppose and little to maintaine So that his advantage on this hand is very great in regard of disputation Since if he receive a wound in any limb of that great body he is to defend it is a mortall one to his cause And his adversary is invulnerable to him every where but in one pointe The reason of this difference dependeth of the knowne Axiome Bonum ex integrâ causâ Malum ex quolibet defectu The Catholike Party hath a Religion hath an Art and skill of living well and of going to heaven Such a thing must have a body And a body can not consist without many members and parts Every one of which must be defended and made good All other Sects are but deficiencies more or lesse from this rule Those more who cleave fastest to the rule of deficiency that is to say to the rejecting of all that cannot be convinced out of Scripture Those lesse who perceiving the inconveniencies this bringeth upon them do soonest recede in practise from this crooked rule and to contradict their maine ground of all being fallible by forcing their subjects to hold their Tenets that they have no authority for themselves having forsaken the legitimate authority by which the Catholike Church sticketh to Tradition The eleventh REFLEXION Of some particular Caveats for Catholikes THe Catholike defendant having so hard a taske some few notes will be necessary for him As first that he should not ofter to maintaine against arguments drawne out of nature such positions as he is not able to satisfy himselfe in for example against an Arrian or Sabellian lett him not undertake to dispute and argue in reason how the same thing can be one and three unlesse he be first sure that hee understandeth it well and that himselfe resteth satisfyed with reason in that point For it is impossible to give the Auditory satisfaction if he hath it not himselfe Especially if the disputant be subtle and able to manage his Argument The like is of the blessed Sacrament to shew how one body can at the same time be im more places then one In this case therefore the Defendant is to keepe himselfe upon the generall defence that wee believe Mysteries of faith whether we can answere Arguments against them or no That the word of God is able to give us certitude above all demonstration and above all that wee can understand Neither are wee without the example of our Adversaries themselves when we do thus For in this very Mystery of the Eucharist they will tell us that Christ is really and truly present in it But that the Manner how he is there is not understandable In the Trinity and in the Incarnation Protestants do the like acknowledging these Mysteries to be true but withall professing them to be above their understanding Yet this rule is not so peremptory but that by discretion it may admitt exception For our Adversaries are so weake that they ground most of their Axiomes and proofes rather upon confidence wee will not deny them then that themselves are able to make them good So in the Mystery of the Eucharist when they insist upon the Maxime that the same body can not be att the same time in two places If you putt them to proove it you shall finde that their word will be to say that even our owne Doctors confesse it or that experience assureth us of it Whereas experience is no Argument against Gods Omnipotency And as to what private Doctors affirme it is att every Mans pleasure to grant or deny it So that if you understand your Adversaries strength you may non-sute him by putting him to prove what you know he can not But this is a hazard And you are shamed if you faile An other Caveat for our defendant is Not to engage himselfe in a Controversy upon the opinion of one party of Devines Nor undertake to defend against his Adversary a position which some of our owne Devines do oppose and so is rather a question of Scholasticall Divinity then a Controversy of faith To this purpose it is to be noted that some opinions are of a greater latitude then others establishing faith upon that whereof others confine it but to some one part As in the Matter of Infallibility some place it in the Pope some in a generall Councell some in both some in the whole Church which conteineth all these and more Here the cautious Controvertist that hath care of his Safety will be sure to choose that which is most ample and so quitteth himselfe from the trouble and danger of answering Arguments made against the single parts and keepeth himselfe to the strong hold of Christianity wherein all parties agree True it is that if the defendant be putt to declare his position and an Argument do presse him Hee may sometimes be obliged to choose one opinion of Divines before an other or rather is forced to follow that which he is best acquainted with But the rule I give must serve where and when there is place for it And besides the already mentioned advantages that this course giveth It causeth a great narrownesse or brevity in controversies which bringeth the dissenting parties farre neerer to agreement and setleth more stablenesse in Religion by making men dicerne what belongeth to faith and what doth not but is the opinions of particular Doctors The twelfth REFLEXION Of the qualities of some sort of Arguments drawne out of Scripture THe next thing we are to look into Is the quality of the Arguments which are to be used in those Disputations By the precedent discourse it is evident ●hat they are of three kindes Out of Scripture out of Fathers and out of reason To begin with Scripture It is again● cleare that arguments may be thence deduced two wayes The one out of the pure force of the wordes The other out of the connexion of the sense and discourse acknowledged ●n the wordes With the conclusion that i● to be proved In the former way Arguents either presse the wordes of one single sentence which they bring thinking to make it evident that their assertion is the very meaning of those wordes Or else they bring a conglobation of sundry places of which the one fortifyeth the other so as to make it evident that the plaine sense of wordes so often reiterated cannot choose but be the true meaning of the Scripture To begin with the first branch of the Manner of drawing arguments out of single Texts of Scripture we may divide into two kindes the Texts that are produced for this purpose For they are either such as
do acknowledg the thing the Catholicks call the Fathers accepting thereof commonly that is the two latter opinants no considerable part of them and the larger opinion nothing neer the half So that the consent of the Fathers in the sense of the Protestants signifieth nothing but the opniō of some few who have written either nothing or litle and obscurely of the points in cōtroversy The fourth Shuffle Of this Word Catholick Church TO the Catholick Church all plead the Apostles Creed forcing them to the name And Catholiks by this word understand a Church which hath endured from Father to Son from Christs time to ours still teaching the same Doctrine and living under an outward Visible goverment the head of which is in the Church of Rome and is the Pope And so acknowledg and obey a Visible and determinate authority to which recourse for Doctrine may in every moment bee made by looking into theire Catechismes and lives which are publick as those which were made by the order of the Council of Trent and in great ocasions to Generall meetings and in the meane while to the particular Church of Rome But the Protestant by this name pretends to a Church made of all whome they account good Christians which hath no other Rule then of the scripture that is of the fancy of every particular Congregation for their opinions no common goverment no bounds or limits to bee knowne by but such as the particular fancy of the Protestāt shal upō occasiō set to include or exclude whome he pleases So that plainly what they mean by the name of the Catholick Church is no determinate Congregation of men nor can have any influence to govern either faith or behaviour The fifth Shuffle Of consent with the Greeck Church SOme Protestants highly brag of theire communion with the Greek Church or rather of their consent of Doctrine with it for I have not heard of any communion unless with the Patriarch Cyril who for that cause was put out as an Heretik a business though of no consequence now yet for the name of what it hath been anciently of a colourable credit to them Let us therefore see what the Protestant means by this communion or consent Two points there are and onely two of moment of dissension betwixt the Greek and Latine Church The one about the Procession of the Holy Ghost in which the 39. Articles men agree with the Latine Church against the Graecians and yet these are the men who most pretend to the Greek Vnion The other of obedience to the Pope in the which the Greeks freely acknowledg the Popes Primacy which is the stumbling block to the Protestants and confess he were to bee obeyed if he made just commands and onely except against his oppression as they call it and clayming of more then his right And in this which is no matter of faith but of Schisme and if unjust confest if doubtfull suspected rebellion So that this glorious consent they boast of is not in Doctrine or sacraments the life of Christians but in a case of schisme and disobedience which is common to all Hereticks The sixth Shuffle Of Roman Church Nay some of thē being ashamed of their owne orphanage and that they can not name their Father or Mother wil in spite of the Roman Church and her defying them intrude themselves into heroff spring saying shee is substantially a true Church though shee coucheth insufferable errours in her faith which force them not to communicate with her let us therefore see what these meane by this Word the Roman Church Catholicks Meane by the name of Church a Congregation of men joyned with Rome in an obligation of Government for the maintaining faith sacraments and good life taking this obligation to bee that which maketh the mene bound together by it to bee a Church The Protestant takes this obligation to bee an unsufferable Tyranny wil have no rule of faith but such an one as hee can turne which way hee thinkes best for his interest or fancy sacraments and government no other then what hee cannot avoide out of his proposed rule of faith or at most without the shame of the world So that hee meanes nothing that belongs to the making a multitude of men a Church but onely the multitude of men of which a Church may bee made as if a man should call a house or Palace the ruines of one lying in a heape where it was fallen The seventh Shuffle Of the Word Mission THese are some but Generally the Prelatick party engages in deriving themselves by Mission from the Roman Church Lett us see then what they intend by this word Mission The Catholick interpretation is that Mission signifies a command givē to the party sent to deliver a Message to them to whome hee is sent which makes the Apostles question good How can they preach if they are not sent That is if no body deliver them an Errand to carry and God is sayed to put his owne Words in the Mouths of those he sends and Christe when hee sent his Apostles bad them preach or deliver to the world what he had taught them Now because this command or commission is delegated in the Catholick Church by a certaine ceremony which is called ordination or the sacrament of Order The Protestant grew ambitious of this outside and so pretends his first Prelates had an Ordination from the Catholick Bishops whome they had deposed or at least violently cast out from theire sees And this they call to have a Mission from the Roman Church So that they do not as much as pretend to the substance of the thing called truely Mission but to an outside and shadow good enough to serve their turnes who love the Glory of men and seek not after Gods honour The eighth Shuffle Of being like to the Primitive Church Another thing in which they insult over Catholicks is Antiquity the which because it hath a venerable awfulness in it self they specially the Presbyterian party much presume upon professing their Church to be more like the Ancient Christian Church thē the Catholicks is asking whether S. Peter were the Prince of Rome Bishops in such great Pompe had such Courts Altars Churches pictures in such abundance and so richly attired Ceremonies and Sacraments performed with so great magnificence and Order By which we see wherein these men place the Antiquity they pretend to to wit that the Church had not those meanes to draw weak hearts which need the helps of bodily appareances to raise themselves to the conceit of invisible goods Whereas the Catholick pretends to Antiquity and to bee like the primitive times in the substātial means of Christian life as in Church government and power of Bishops their accommodating of the quarrels of the faithfull by the order of the Apostles Performing the mass Baptisme Ordination and other Sacraments with exactness and diligence the Reliques and Holy Burialls having Feasts Fasts Penitential Canons flocks of People of both