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doctrine_n	apostle_n	church_n	teacher_n	2,224	5	8.9443	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41330	The questions between the conformist and nonconformist, truly stated, and briefly discussed Dr. Falkner, The friendly debate &c., examined and answered : together with a discourse about separation, and some animadversions upon Dr. Stillingfleet's book entituled, The unreasonableness of separation : observations upon Dr. Templers sermon preached at a visitation in Cambridge : a brief vindication of Mr. Stephen Marshal.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1681 (1681)	Wing F962; ESTC R16085	105,802	120

worth twenty others if they do not fail in the managing of it Mr. Carre Mr. Falkner and the rest that meddle with Liturgies instance in the Form of blessing the Priests had from God Numb 6.23 the many Prayers and Praises in the Psalms in the Old Testament To which I answer 1. I wish these Gentlemen would cast the argument into Form and see how it will conclude the Question The Question speaks of ordinary persons and here is God himself commanding Aaron and giving him a form of words to which Aaron must conform or sin For others here were extraordinary persons inspired by the Holy Spirit These are part of the Canon into which our Faith is resolved part of Scripture and so given by the inspiration of God 2 Tim. 3.16 This argument reaches not the question The Fr. Deb. par 2. pag. 354. tell us that Jehoshaphat Hezekiah Ezra Daniel used the words of Solomon What then I pray conclude the question Besides as if we denied Ministers to make use of Scripture-expressions into which as I said our Faith is resolved We commend such prayers I have heard a Nonconformist pray and that for a convenient space of time his prayer was composed almost all of Scripture-expressions but so aptly that I could but wonder at the gift and yet I perceived he did not tye himself to a Form But were those under the Old Testament tyed up to words and syllables imposed upon them by ordinary persons and might not or did not use their own gifts prove that else you are beside the question Besides our question speaks of a Gospel-church which that was not But P. 2. p. 354 392. the Fr. Deb tell us Christ used the same words three times Sir I pray cast this argument also into form see how it will conclude the question As if we thought or ever said that every time a Minister pray he must have new expressions or denied that a person under a heavy load upon his spirit as our blessed Lord had then might not unload his grief to God in the same expressions The Jesuit Clare tell us Arraign of Conver Jew p. 105. Fr. Deb. p. 360. that the custom of praying so often upon Beads is warranted from this example of Christ using the same words three times it proves both alike The Fr. Deb. tell us p. 360. A man may be a good Minister and yet want the gift of extemporary conceptions in prayer In the requisites for a Bishop 1 Tim. 3. and Tit. 1. this is not required nor expressed Ephes 4.11 12. and Rom. 12.6 7. Answ I pray Sir how came the word Extemporary to be foisted into the question Have our Nonconformists so stated it every true Bishop is able to pray so as to present his own and the peoples wants and necessities before the Lord whether he doth it by extemporary or premeditated conceptions is none of our question 2. No wonder though the Apostle did not express it a man I hope is first a Christian before a Bishop and if but a Christian he can pray much more if a Bishop Prayer was one part of the Apostles work Act. 6.4 I question much whether the Apostles had a stinted Liturgy then 3. Though we have but a little learning left yet we understand a Synecdoche the principal work Teaching is there expressed but other work is comprehended This puts me in mind of a Scholar I knew of good natural parts but of a profane spirit upon a time he takes along with him another of his Companions to hear him and gets into a Pulpit to try his faculty When he had done he tells his Companion I could make a shift to preach as well as any of them but a Devil on 't I cannot Pray 4ly When the Apostle wrote to Timothy 1 Epist 2.1 I exhort that supplications prayers c. be made for all he intended that prayer was a work incumbent on a Bishop But here I find Mr. Falkner p. 109. with Dr. Ham. making this Text to warrant the composing of Forms of Prayer The words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may be taken in that sense So he But 1. Paul was as able to compose as Timothy why did not he as an Apostle set him a pattern 2ly Suppose Timothy should compose how will he prove that he imposed them on the Ministers who were able to pray without them how this would agree with Paul's Doctrine Ephes 4.8 11. these gifts were for Pastors and Teachers as well as Evangelists 3ly The Syriack Translation will not admit this notion for that reads the words thus That thou offer supplication to God It being Timothy's and Ministers duties not to compose prayers and impose them on other Ministers but to pray c. 4ly I pray what difference between these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this Text and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. in Act. 12.5 Prayer was made without ceasing the Church was instant and earnest in composing Forms of Prayer this it seems is the sense what is there more in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to force such an Interpretation 5ly It seems then by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a phrase often used by the Apostle John we must understand to compose a form of sin and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to compose a form of Righteousness 1 Pet. 2.22 when Peter said of Christ He did no sin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we must understand he did not make a form of sin implying he might sin but did not make a form So Jam. 3.18 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make peace that is make a form of peace So Paul 2 Corinth 11.7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 have I sinned that is have I made a form of sin we read have I committed an offence The next Scripture-argument I see they all make use of is the example of John the Baptist who they say gave to his Disciples a form of prayer Ans 1. Suppose John gave them a Form make the argument into Form and see how it concludes the question 2. It was necessary for John to teach them how to pray at such a time the Messiah being about to manifest himself so that their prayers might be suitable to the Dispensation they were under But 3ly Were John's Disciples Ministers of Christ called by him to office 4ly Did John tye up his Disciples to words and syllables when his Disciples were grown up in their understanding and had gifts of their own Though I gave my Children Forms of Prayers when they were young I now expect they should pray without those Forms This argument is yet too weak The last argument I find out of Scripture is the Prayer our Lord taught his Disciples All make use of this A. Let us hear the strength If Christ gave his Disciples a Form which is part of the Sacred Canon and tyed them up to these words c. then ordinary persons may impose c. a very stout argument Christs and your

the Rites of the Institution but doth much violate the second Commandment concerning shunning Idolatry To stand about the Lords-Table doth partake of the Rites and detracts nothing from the Institution But to partake sitting is the most convenient because by this neither are the rites of Institution violated nor doth it attract danger of superstition or Idolatry but this gesture is commended by the example of Christ himself in the first Institution and of the Apostles after the Institution Thus he with whom Maccovius agrees Before I go any further let me make use of one thing I meet with in the Fr. Debate part 2d pag. 397 399. this Author finding fault with us because we charge these Ceremonies as being additions to the word of God contrary to the command Deut. 12.32 yea Sir I own the argument he answers us These words saith he from the old separate Mr. Ainsworth you restrain to worship when as the Text speaks of the whole Law v. 1. Judicial as well but the Jews never thought that no particular Law might be made agreeable to the general Law And again p. 421. To save Christian Liberty saith he in matters of worship Gods Law hath only given us general rules whereby things are to be ordered in the Church according to which our Governours are to make particular Laws and we are to obey them I answer as to Mr. Ainsworth whatever were some of his private opinions his learning and piety command respect Whether the Judicial Law be there included I now list not to examine This you have affirmed 1. There are some general rules which the Lord hath prescribed in his word or general Laws 2ly Our Governours may make particular Laws 3ly But those particular Laws must be according to and agreeable with both which words you have used the general Law of God As when men cut little Creeks to bring water to a place they let in the water in the great River into these lesser Creeks * Pag. 61. Dr. Templer's similitude of gold being beaten out aims at this Now let Conformity stand or fall according to this saying of our adversary 1. Then produce you that general Law of God wherein he giveth liberty in general to ordinary Ministers in his Church to compose and impose their Forms of prayer upon all his other Ministers whom he hath given gifts sufficient for that office and tye them up to their Forms and syllables in their Administrations Upon this general Law your Church in England have made your particular Law and imposed your Forms The French Church have made their particular Laws and imposed their Forms The Dutch theirs and so on I pray Sir keep to the state of the question 2ly Produce the general Law where God hath given men that power to invent institute and adjoin Religious mystical Ceremonies to his worship Upon which general Law Rome makes her particular Laws and impose hers the Church of England makes her particular Laws and imposes hers the Lutherans make their particular Laws and impose theirs I hear but of few of other Protestant Churches that have such Ceremonies if any at all and without these God shall have no worship 3. For the third I know not whether this Author be of that mind that God hath left us only a general Law for the Government of the Church but appointed no particular Form of Government as the learned Dr. Stillingfleet hath asserted But for the two former we expect this Author to tell us where we shall find those two general Laws That common Evasion Though these things be not according to the word yet they are not contrary to the word will not serve the turn Yea this Author quite overthrows that distinction For he tell us Our Governours particular Laws must be according to and agreeable to the general Law of God A Law is a positive thing so are Governours particular Laws then so must the general Law be To say not contrary to the word what Law is this Non ens is no Law How can these particular Laws be said to be according to the Law and agreeable with the Law when no such Law can be found If the Law can be found then that distinction is but vain Though this Author hath said enough yet because this distinction is so common in their mouths I will but add a few Scriptures in which we shall find an injunction laid upon us that in matters concerning God our duty towards him we look that all things be according to his word The first Text is col 2.8 Beware lest any man spoil you through Philosophy and vain deceit according though we read after that makes no difference 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with an Accusative Case secundum to the Traditions of men according to the rudiments of the world and not according to Christ Expositors differ about those words vain deceit I shall not trouble my self nor the Reader about them but by Traditions of men I see generally they understand those superstitious customs which have only mans authority for their institution such as the Pharisaical Traditions So Anselm c. but Baldwin Davenant Beza Gomarus Diodati apply them to the Popish worship What the rudiments of the world are Gal. 4.9 explains This is certain the troubles the Apostles met with in the Churches arose from these three heads Philosophy Superstitious Traditions and Moses Law Now all these are opposed to Christ if they were according to them and not according to Christ then they were contrary to Christ The second Text 1 Tim. 1.3 That they teach no other Doctrine upon which words Dr. Featly glosseth thus Timothy was to forbid any to preach not only Doctrine that was contrary but that which was beside that which the faithful had received from the Apostles And are not the things in question beside that the faithful received from the Apostles The third Text Mat. 28.20 Teaching them to observe what I have commanded you If he hath commanded these things you impose they shall be observed but not else Thus ran the Apostles Commission but we have found an art to interline the Commission and what is not expresly contrary to my command teach them to observe that also This interlining was under a hedg should an Ambassador thus interline his Commission it may cost him dear The Author of the Fr. Deb. here demands of us What command we have to take a Text and gloss upon it to pray before and after Sermon to sing Davids Psalms in English Meeter I see this Author will play at small games rather than stand out he will join with the Quakers for an argument 1st But Sir remember first your own words a general Law will help to serve our turn as to Prayer We have a command for it the time when left to our prudence We think when we are to preach the Word 't is a fit time now to confess sins to beg pardon for sins that they may not stand in the way

Apoc. 18.4 how were they made and kept his people else must we therefore hold Communion with Babylon 3ly Christ holds Communion with his people in the Lutheran Churches I doubt not but if they impose upon you the Doctrine of the Ubiquity of Christs Humane Nature as a condition of Communion will you hold Communion with them 9ly Persecution joined to Imposition upon the members of Christs body what Christ never imposed renders the sin of the Imposing-Church much greater and refusing Communion with such a Persecuting Imposing Church is no Schism If Christ doth give us leave to flee from one Persecuting City to another where there is no Persecution then if a City be a Persecuting City by reason of a Persecuting Church surely he doth not bind us to hold Communion with that Persecuting Church 10ly Though one particular Church cannot communicate with another particular Church because of their corrupt Impositions yet if that Church which cannot communicate with the other will admit of those members of that Church who walk as become Christians in all other points excepting those Imposed corruptions which at present they cannot see being blinded with those deluding notions of indifferency and circumstances that Church cannot be charged with Schism though they refuse communion with the Imposing Church for we give communion to their members only exclude their imposed corruptions I do not mean such members as voluntarily took that solemn Oath c. of reforming those corruptions and now return to them again I look on this as a greater sin but for others I know several of our Churches would give them communion I do not say all will but then how are we Schismaticks 11ly Particular Churches may be so corrupt both in Doctrine Worship and Conversation that the sounder members not only may but ought to separate from them to save their own souls from infection and this is not Schism but Duty 12ly The case of those who are actual members of those Churches where these corruptions are is different from those who are no members of such Churches they have something else to do before they may separate 13ly If it be our sin to communicate with such as we know to be notoriously wicked unless we follow the rule of Christ Mat. 18.15 16 c. to seek the removal of them or do not our duty to reform the Pastor Cure of Church-Division pag. 100. or remove him as Mr. Baxtar tells us How we shall communicate without sin though we had nothing else to trouble us I know not that many such come to the Sacraments and who more boldly than they we know which way shall we reform them the Curate hath no Juridical power To the Spiritual Court must we go To the Diocesan must we go we are like to mend it carry Witnesses how many miles when yet the power we cannot own to be of Christ When all is done have a Writ upon our backs to bring us to the common Law and what then Whence to conclude they have dealt unworthily by us who bring the old Nonconformists against us to condemn us as if the state of this Church were the same with the true Church of England POSTSCRIPT AFTER I had finished I met with a Pamphlet Entituled The reason of Episcopal Inspection asserted in a Sermon at a Vesitation in Cambridg by John Templer D. D. The scope of the Sermon is to prove the Divine Right of Prelacy over Elders and Congregations And that the Author might shew himself to be a true Son of the Church he hath given sufficient proof in every particular For the Liturgy that is so perfect that he saith the most accuminated Intellect is not able with justice to charge it with any error p. 18. All then the old Nonconformists Parker Ames Bradshaw Cartwright Richardson Didoclavius c. together with the latter Nonconformists who were appointed with others by the Kings command to review the Liturgy and have given an account what things in it were to be corrected Calvin also for saying he found in it some Tolerabiles Ineptiae are all by this accuminated Doctor dub'd for so many Dunces They must be men of higher Acumens than these that can find any just cause against it these have said nothing considerable But whatever be the opinion of this Author yet Mr. Jeans a man of an acute Intellect one of their own and as great a Zealot once as he can be confesseth when he intended to write in defence of the Discipline and Ceremonies when he read these mens Books he found such arguments in them as were never answered and thereupon layed by his Pen his judgment being quickly altered but if you be a person of a more accuminated Intellect why did you not answer those dull fellows and therein do us a kindness that we might have conformed as well as you He tells the Reader p. 17. If this order of Prelacy had a period the Dissenters would never pitch upon any one way A. 1. The same saith the old Gentleman at Rome these Dissenting Protestants cannot pitch upon one way Hence no period must be put to the Papal Government 2ly You were very cunning Sir to pitch upon the warm side of the hedg thereby to save your selves from persecution and keep your fat Livings then cry up obedience to Governours pity the Martyrs had no better Intellects to have taken this course too and so have saved their stakes 3. If men would lay by their self-interests we might sooner pitch upon one way but so long as he sits at Rome and the Jews are uncalled I look but for little of this unity in the Gentile-Churches But to the main scope of his Sermon Had it been to prove the Divine Right of an Episcopus Praeses or Primus Presbyter as Ambrose calls a Bishop with the Presbytery or Ecclesiastical Senate I should not have been his opposer but it is an Episcopus Princeps and that not with but over the Presbytery superiour in power which he contends for how strongly proved we shall see His Text was Act. 15.36 Paul said to Barnabas Let us go again and visit our Brethren c. That the Doctor intended out of this Text to prove such a Visitation as was then when he Preached and so in England when Bishops visit I presume else he deceived him to whom he dedicates it and the four Doctors that Licensed it See how the Text will force it The Proposition or Antecedent is this Paul and Barnabas two Apostles Act. 14.14 Persons of extraordinary mission commission and qualifications for the office having by their Preaching converted many people from Heathenism to the Faith of Christ gathered them into Churches and set Elders over them These Elders and Churches being but all young Converts and through the relicts of corruption in them and the malice of Satan and his Emissaries without them being in danger to miscarry in Doctrine or manners these two Apostles go to visit the Churches which they had planted

ordained before Pauls journey to Jerusalem Acts 20. for he tells Timothy 1 Tim. 3.14 he hoped to come unto him shortly but Act. 20.25 when he sent for the Elders of Ephesus he tells them they shall see his face no more If Timothy then were Bishop of Ephesus before this time then he was there now and was now sent for which I shall never believe that Paul would not mention him in particular whose Name he uses to joyn with his in several Epistles But if Timothy did come with the other Elders here is no difference made of this Prelate from the other Elders but 28. ver he gives the same alike to them all Therefore I deny your Consequence If Timothy were Bishop of phesus what need Paul tell him in his second Epistle to him Chap. 4.12 Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus he might have spared that line for Timothy must needs know it if he came to him there But you add for a further Confirmation p. 28. the words of Christ Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent me so I send you But the Commission of Christ as an Apostle did undoubtedly extend to a superintendency over the Clergy and the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 justifie the same as to the Apostles c. A. Undoubtedly Christs Commission did extend as you say without limiting it to any precincts which you tell us several times the Apostles were and especially in p. 6. you would labour to prove it from 2 Cor. 10.16 Though that Text I conceive will not do it But if the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will force their superintendency over the Clergy it will as well force it without limitation to such precincts for his Father did not so send him and how their Commission runs we read But I shall not give my thoughts about this now you tell us pag. 34. that among the Bishops Peter leads the Van in the Church of Antioch Pope Innocent this does not make for you I pray tell us in your next in which Church did Paul lead the Van among the Bishops But if Peter were Bishop at Antioch indeed Paul went beyond his Precinct when he dealt so roundly with a Bishop in his own See as he did with this Bishop of Antioch Gal. 2.11.14 2ly I conceive you stretch this Text beyond the intent of our Lord. For the work which our Lord undertook he had a Call from his Father who sent him Heb. 5.4 Joh. 6.27 and 10.36 His Father had Authority to send him and was with him Joh. 16.32 So he the Head and King of his Church having all power given to him in Heaven and in Earth Math. 28.18 had Authority to send forth his Apostles to their work they might show their Commissions or Credentials He promised also to be with them and their Successors to the end and I think all Gospel-Ministers are their Successors but that the Lord intended in these words the setling of a Superiority of one person above his brethren in the Ministry to the end of the world this is but Petitio pincipii your gloss and I deny it for the Reasons and Scriptures before mentioned 3ly Those Apostles had Superiority over Bishops if there were such then as you say there were yea Arch-Bishops who is now over them His third Text is Eph 4.12 13. Apostles were given and their Suffregans as you call them Prophets and Evangelists for the perfecting of the Saints hence pag. 30. you conclude for the duration of Prophets and Evangelists to this day Thus then we have to this day Apostles Prophets and Evangelists in the sense of this Text unless he will abuse the Text a rare sight I would go many miles to see such persons and to their Superiority willingly submit Calvin Gerhard Beza Zanchi the Leyden Professors c. tell us these were Ministri extraordinarii Temporarii but they were men of no Acuminated Intellects their judgements signifie little Well Sir what Apostles were you tell us not neither need you we know them well but where you can find such I know not but such you must find if your proof hold For the Prophets you tell us they were such as had an excellent skill to preach the Gospel out of the Books of the Old Testament 1 Cor. 13.2 Evangelical Doctrines locked up in the Figures of the Law and Predictions of the Prophets If this were all we shall find many such Prophets amongst the Nonconformists But Sir you have spoken very short of the Prophets Dr. Hammond Zanchy and Gerhard add two things more 1. A foretelling things to come 2ly They spake all from the Spirit from a Divine Afflatus These three are somewhat like I pray shew us these Prophets now The Evangelists you tell us are such as had a profound insight into the Gospel as contained in the Writings of the New-Testament and could with singular dexterity open and explain its true importance Such there are also amongst the Nonconformists But Sir what if there were Evangelists before there was any part of the New-Testament writtens how then does your description agree I question not if the Ancients say true of the time when John wrote his Gospel but Timothy was an Evangelist long before and in that Gospel are the deep Mysteries contained more than in the other three If the first Epistle to the Thessalonians were the first Epistle that Paul wrote as Divines generally think Timothy is joyned with Paul in the 1. ver so that very little was written when he first was made an Evangelist I see by some of your own and those Learned men Philip was an Evangelist when he preached the Gospel at Samaria and wrought Miracles Acts 8.5 6 7. but at that time no part of the New Testament was written For Matthew wrote first and that was eight years after the Ascension as our Divines for the generality of them agree But for the Evangelists Eusebius l. 3. Chap. 37. a fitter man to tell us what an Evangelist was than you gives us another description and that which agrees with Philip in Acts 8.5 6 7. and other Scriptures I shall note only these 1. That they watered the Churches every where planted by the Apostles 2. They preached Christ to them which as yet heard not of the Doctrine of Christ 3. Having planted the Faith in new and strange places they ordained there other Pastors committing to them the Tillage of the new ground pressing themselves to other People and Countries 4. By the power of the Holy Ghost they wrought miraculously Show us these Evangelists now His last Text is 1 Tim. 6.14 Keep the Commandments until the appearing of the Lord Jesus c. A. 1. By the appearing of the Lord c. exitus vitae is meant thinks Austin and some others But if not yet this appearing is an Argument used not only to Timothy but to all Christians to look to their duty Col. 3.4 Tit. 2.13 1. Pet. 17. 2. What Commandment this was if we well