what may be feared of them namely lest that rather then they should not many they would waâ— waâ—â—on against Christ and breake their first faith which is not their vow but the profession of Christian religion which such light buswiues would easily coâ—â—â—â—â— that they might inioy their pleasures And that this is his meaning the 1â— verse sheweth For certeine are already turned backe after Satan shewing what some had done he admonisheth them to be wary lest others should do the like And as for the Fathers if they did also expound these words as indeed they doe not yet the argument is very weake in diuinity The Fathers haue thus expounded it therefore the exposition is true Luther indeed tooke to wife in holy wedlocke a Virgin that once was intangled by a rash superstitious vow after she had bin more rightly instructed in the truth of religion Exclaime bitterly as you list Call Zuinglius also a swash buckler seeing your self is a player of a Price But tell vs wherein he did euer shew himselfe such a cutter forsooth he boldly ventered his life with his fellow citizens Slerdum lib. 8. Occolam Ephes lib. 4. If Zuinglius at the commaund of the Senate went to warre against the enemies of his couÌ„trie religion where he perished by cruell theeues who lay in waite for him what did he vnbefitting a valiant man a good citizen and a faithfull Pastor to do For whereas you challenge him with conspiracie against his country besides that it is a shamelesse lie I wonder why you should obiect such a crime to him seeing with you it is a thing very commendable for men to conspire against their Prince and country As for Caluin whom you call a seareback runagate the whole Church of Christ knoweth to be an excellent man and a most constant seruant of the Lord who was as farre from lewdnes and dishonastie as you are from shamefastnes and honesty If he was seared S. Paul was so too Gal. 6.17 yea diuers others but indeed he was not And whereas you call him a runagate I pray you tell vs where you haue liued for these diuers yeares and remember what your selfe were Caluin neuer forsooke the Church hee once tooke vpon him to gouerne but there he liued with the speciall loue of all and there he ended his daies but why doe I answere you anything in defence of those excellent and worthy men whom you shal neuer iustly defame though you burst your hart with lying But let vs now heare your communication as you call it And heere you demaund Whether we will subscribe to the Church which flourished these many hundred youres we answere we will subscribe but say you to which Church I answere r DVR He did not demaund whether you would subscribe to that Church which had continued in the precept of the Apostles but vvhether to that Church vvhich hath flourished these many hundred yeares vvhich if you vvould you must needs yeeld as ouercome vvhen none but ours haue flourished thus long WHIT. pag. 285. As if no Church but the Romish Church had flourished these many hundred yeares or for many ages together in the opinion of men it only hâ—â— the name of â—â—e church 〈…〉 will subscribe to all Churches whether they flourished now 〈…〉 they hold the Apostles doctrine but you shall neuer proue 〈◊〉 we must necessarily subscribe to place Sea succession no more then Christ his disciples were bound when there was no true Church flourishing vpon the earth to the Church which is built vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles that is to the Churches of Hierusalem Antioch Ephesus and all those famous and excellent Churches of which wee reade in the Epistles written by the Apostles yea euen to the auncient Church of Rome to which yours is no more like then an apple to an oysteâ— Finally we subscribe to those Churches of whom we reade in histories that they kept the seed of that doctrine which the Apostles taught among them sound vncorrupt These Churches as long as they did continue in the Apostles doctrine were true Churches to those Churches we haue and euer will subscribe And by this I thinke we haue cut off the progresse of your conference for we haue not giuen you such an answere as you fained to your selfe Wherefore that which followeth in you hangeth together like a rope of sand but no answere will please you vnlesse we offer to subscribe to your Romish Church but that we iustly disclaime because it hath fouly corrupted the â—â—â—stles writing You must find you out other subscribers Campian for wee will subscribe to none but the Apostolicall Churches But one thing say you they will still stand vpon in darkenes that where and in what place soeuer the Church is there are conâ—eiued therein only Saints and such as are predestinate to go to heauen We speake not so of the Church as you write for we are taught by the Scriptures thus to distinguish the Church that it is sometimes Å¿ DVR I beleeue only one Catholike Church as the Apostles and Nicene Creed hath taught me which conteineth both the elect and as many as professe true religion Now you teach me to beleeue two Churches WHIT. pag. 286. This distinction taketh not away the vnity of the Church no more then when the Church is said to be mâ—â—â—an and uâ—â—â—phant vniuersall and particular For the visible and â—â—uisible Church make but one called visible for the outward policy or order of it which is seene and discerned inuisâ—ble because Gods election and the electes faith is not to be seene with eies And this distinction we haue Esay 1.9 Matth. 22.14 As for the Creedes you mention we beleeue them in this point aswell as you But tell vs this one Catholike Church what is it If you restraine the name to the visible Church first you exclude both that in heauen of the Saints and that which shall be of these which aâ—e vnborne and yet do belong to the Catholike Church secondly you place faith in the sense which the Apostle saith is of things which are not seene Heb. 11.1 As for that Catholike Church which we beleeue it is the company of all the elect euen as many as haue been from the beginning of the world and shall be to the end therefore it is called the Apostolike and holy Church the communion of Saints And to this communion belong no prophane and wicked men no hypocrites because they haue no fellowship with Christ For the holy Church is the mysticall body of Christ of which body no member can at any time perish visible and sometimes inuisible In a particular visible Church of which they are members who will heare the Word and receiue the Sacraments we confesse there are many fained Christians who had rather haue the visard of faith then true faith indeed An inuisible Church we affirme to containe only the godly who with a
satisfied Nay but you proceed still vnto the ages that succeeded Then when Clemens gouerned the Church then also when the Heathen Emperours massacred the Bishops of Rome Euen then I confesse Rome was an excellent Church of Christ Will this content you Nay further you say Then also when Damasus Siricius Anastasius Innocentius executed the Apostolike function This is not to discend by degrees but to leape for you hasten too fast from the forenamed to these But how will you perswade vs to yeeld you thus much Because Caluin as you say frankly confesseth Iâ—st lib. 4. cap. 2. sâ—ct 3 Epist ad Sadâ—l that as yet they had not digressed from the doctrine of the Gospell Doe not you Campian catch hold of that which no man will giue you nor be too confident of others liberalitie Caluin doth not grant that which you take for granted therefore you must redeliuer it Caluin in that place answereth to your ouerworne argument of succession and she weth that the purpose of the Fathers when they alleaged the succession of Bishops was not to proue those to be true Churches where Bishops succeeded one another but this first they assumed as most certaine that from the beginning of the Church vnto the ages whereof they speake there was no alteration in religion and thus they opposed to the new broched errors that doctrine which from the times of the Apostles was still preserued in the Church Caluin then saith not that they had k DVR Do you acknowledge it to bee the Church of Christ vvhich swarueth and strayeth from the Apostles doctrine vvhat can be spâ—ken more absurdly WHIT. pag. 513. You that obiect absurditie to others are most absurde your selfe for vvâ—â— not the Church of the lewes euen then when it abounded with many errors the Church of God The Corinthians and Galathians when they had many waies declined from the doctrine of the Gospell yet S. Paul saluted them 〈◊〉 Churches 1 Cor. 1.2 Gal. 1.2 which he would not haue done if he had not acknowledged them to be Churches for all their errors altered nothing in any point of faith but that the Fathers vsed this argument of succession onely in those cases wherein it might appeare they had innouated and altered nothing Wherefore as we grant that the Church of Rome in the time of these Bishops was the true Church of Christ but that they in nothing digressed from the doctrine of the Gospell that Caluin neuer confessed and wee constantly denie To say nothing of the rest Thus l DVR This error is common to you and many of your felloâ—es for Syricius vvas not the first vve haâ—e a direct Canon of the Councell of Carthage vvhich numbreth this among the Apostolike trâ—ditions Carthag 1. Can. 2. so hath Clemenâ— it in his Epistle to S. Iames the Lords brother Amongest the Grecians the custome of the Priests waâ— not to keepe their wiues as wiues which they bad before their Priest-bood Epiphan hâ—â—rel 59. And Hierome against Viâ—ilantius vigeth this auncient custome of the Church WHIT. pag. 514. But your Gratian writeth that Syritius was the first maker of this impious law The which many Priests before him of their owne acccrd embraced single life yet none was compelled by law against his will and as for the Councell of Carthage it was held in the time of this Syricius And so not before him for your Clemeâ—s you knovv hee is of no vvorth but a meere counterfeite That you report of the Grecians is incredible vvhen as in the Councell of Nice Paphuntius hindred this lavv neither vvould the Grecians euer endure this snare Hierome indeed produceth an old custome but no Apostolike nor yet perpetuall custome Syricius swarued from the doctrine of the Gospell when he intangled the Ministers of the word with the snares of inforced continencie and this doubtlesse was no small digression but a plaine departing froÌ„ the m DVR VVhat Catholike euer said that marriage was euill S. Paul teacheth vs to take beedo of the Manichies and Gnostikes and other heretikes of that sort WHIT. pag. 516. To your question my ansvvere is easie your Syricius and Innocent vvhen they feared Ministers from marriage vsed those reasons vvhich either condemned marriages simplie or els they conclude nothing For vvhen they thus reason Priests may not marrie because they must be the temple and the vessell of the Lord and the Chappell of the holy Ghost therefore they ought not to giue themselues to chambering and vncleannes because they ought to be holy because they shall bee polluted vvith carnall concupiscence and to the vncleane all things are vncleane because they vvho are in the flesh cannot please God What I pray you is this else but to affirme that marriages are euill impure and vvicked Make these then no Catholikes or else your question is ansvvered To tye S. Paul to those auncient heretikes only is absurde as if he deliuered not a perpetuall doctrine for all times yea and he hath taxed not those only vvho condemne marriage but vvho forbid them vvhich cannot be denied but your Pope and Church doth Apostolike doctrine 1. Tim. 4.3 Heb. 13.4 Now at length you make a stay and pursue the histories of the Church no further only you demaund when Rome ceased to be as formerly it had bin vnto which question we haue sufficiently answered If you make doubt whether it now bee the same it was you may also if you list doubt whether the sunne shine at noone For this is as cleere and without question as that the present citie of Rome is become vnlike the auncient flourishing Romans common wealth And as hee could not find Samnius in Samnius and the other of whom the Epigram speaketh wittily who found nought of Rome in the middest of Rome So if you would now in the present n DVR VVhat impudencie is this there vvas neuer heresie that assaulted this Church of vvhich it caried not the victorie As ouer the Donatists Iouinian Pelagius the Britaine and others WHIT. pag. 521. I contempe your reproches and stand to that I haue saide The Church of Rome vvhich once flourished is novv so oppressed vvith Antichrist that besides the outvvard face image countenance of a Church a vaine pompe there is nothing else left in it There is no vvord but it is corrupted vvith pestiferous leaued no Sacrament but polluted vvith sacriledge and corruption no discipline but Antichristian I passe not for your Popes chaire your Colledge of Cardinals the glorie of your Bishops your Priests Monkes Temples riches nothing moue me I search for a liuing Church not bare walles for a man not a picture for a body not a shadow as for your criumphes you boast of they are no more proper to the true Church then the triumphes of old Rome ouer Pyrrhus Anniball Perses Antiochus are to be esteemed the triumphes of Rome novv being Finally as for Pelagius he triumphed ouer the whole Popish kingdome For
the fatte would be in the fire Campian if you had not one fit of rayling at Luther for this is to shew your selfe a right Iesuite as indeed you are shamelessely and audaciously to breake out into rayling and specially to teare Luther with most bitter reproches This is your facultie and profession this you haue vndertaken to do whatsoeuer youâ— leaue vndone surely he is an happy man whom the Lord thus honoreth with the enmitie and hatred of such wicked men for he cannot chuse but be an excellent man whom wicked men do so deadly pursue But you obiect against Luther his Apostasie look to your selfe Campian if you may not bee more iustly accused of this crime for doubtlesse you are either an Apostata or you were a cunning hypocrite But if it be Apostasie to forsake Apostataes then was Luther such an Apostata For hee abandoned theeues heretikes Apostataes and separated himselfe from that Curch in which that daily Apostasie from religion 2. Thess 2.3 which the Apostle did foretell was now come to the height they then who would not be Apostataes must flie from the Apostasie of your Church But say you Luther spake not so reuerently of the Epistle of S. Iames as was fitting It is well all you can challenge him with is touching this Epistle only he neuer did by any one word impeach the Gospels of Matthew Marke Luke and Iohn neither the Epistles of Saint Paul or Saint Peter only a little he taxed the Epistle of Saint Iames. Is Luther alone in this crime hath all Antiquitie receiued this Epistle of S. Iames Luther only reiected it vndoubtedly no neither was Luther ignorant what censure the auncient Church gaue of this Epistle * Lib. 2. c. pa 23. Eusebius adueÌ„tured to write expresly of this Epistle thus b DVR But Eusebius onely saith that this Epistle vvas thought of diuers not to be vvritten by S. Iames and denies not the canonicall authoritie of it For after hee saith It was receiued of many Churches WHIT. Pag. 12. You wrest both the words and sence of Eusebius for he alleageth not other mens opinions but his owne direct iudgement But if wee admit that you say it must the rather bee counterfeit for if Saint Iames did not write it and yet hee calleth himselfe James the seruant of God and of our Lord Iesus Christ must it not bee forced â—aue the pen-men of the Scripture vsed to take other mens names vnto them If you deny it to bee written by Saint James you must needes confesse it to be Apocrypha and so after your sense Eusebius hath reiected this Epistle which thing to him that readeth Eusebius will manifestly appeare And that hee saith many Churches receiue it and not all must needs proue that he thought it was not Canonicall Be it knowne to all men that this Epistle which is fathered on Saint Iames is counterfeit what can be written more plainely it may be you will except against Eusebius But tell vs why therefore not to stand with you Hieronym in Catalogo will you heare what Hierome saith who as you well know was an Elder of the Church of Rome The Epistle of Iames is held to haue been published vnder his name by some other The one saith it is counterfeit the other writeth that it was thought to be published not by the Apostle but by some other Why then are you angrie with Luther whom you see not vnaduisedly and rashly to doubt of the authoritie of that Epistle but therein followeth the iudgement and censure of the auncient Church for from hence it is very cleare c DVR Doth hee therefore doubt of the authoritie of this booke what shall vve then say to Caluin vvho hath plainely denied that the Epistle to the Hebrues vvas vvritten by Saint Paul and if you had not been a deceiuer you vvould haue alleadged Hierome vvholy for it follovveth Though by little and little in succeeding ages it obtained authoritie WHIT. Pag. 16 He that saith It is thus held and neither dislikes nor refures such a suspition sheweth he not himself also doubtful of it Caluin had some reason because that Epistle was not published in the name of Saint Paul as this was of Saint Iames. What comparison is there in these two the Epistle of Saint Iames hath his name in the beginning of it as the author of it so hath not the other the name of Saint Paul so that hee that denies that to bee written by Saint Iames must needes make it counterfeit But no such thing here Therefore may this be held to be canonicall though it be denied to be written by Saint Paul If you had read but a few lines more you should finde that I vsed no deceite neither had you causâ— to be so bitter And these words of Hierome prooue directly that the authoritie of this Epistle was sometimes doubted of that the first age of the Church doubted somewhat of the credit and authoritie of this Epistle But you will say it was afterwards receiued and Hierome witnesseth as much I inquire not how iustly that might be receiued in a succeeding age which once was reiected that the credit and authoritie it had not in the beginning it might gaine in time by mens calmnesse in iudging neither will I contend about the authority of this Epistle Let it be as great as euer any booke had we verily receiue it and put it in the Canon of the Scriptures for whatsoeuer Luther or any other may conclude touching this Epistle or lessen the credit of it any way yet all our Churches willingly imbrace it and iudge it written by the Apostle or some Apostolike man and in it do vndoubtedly acknowledge the doctrine and spirit of an Apostle * Caluin in argument in Epist. Iacob I saith Caluin willingly and without controuersie receiue this Epistle because I see no iust cause to reiect it Therefore obiect no longer vnto vs other mens sharpe censures and hard speeches whereof we are no wayes guilty for what is it to vs what other men thinke of this Epistle who dispraise no part of it neither detract any thing from the authority thereof But where I pray you writ Luther any such thing which you make mention of let vs see the place that we may perceiue how faithfully you deale You tell vs of a Preface he writ vpon the Epistle of S. Iames such as I thinke few men know for it is no where to be found amongest Luthers workes yet by accident I light vpon that preface and read it from the beginning to the ending in which not any of those things is to be seene which you mention so that we may easily coniecture what we are like to find of you in the sequell when in the beginning you are not ashamed to lye so palpablie For Luther begins his preface thus The Epistle of S. Iames though reiected of Antiquitie I much commeÌ„d hold very fitting profitable And in
then marry that M. Doctor Martin Luther or M. Philip Melangthon or certeinly M. Zuinglius or without doubt M. Caluin and M. Beza haue faithfully intreated vpon those matters Tell vs Frier what should hinder why euery one of these you haue nominated may not as faithfully intreate of thâ—se things as those who haue liued before them in ages past what wanted they which the other had what skill of art what knowledge of the toÌ„gues what other helpes there is not any one of these but hath far surpassed in learning and all deserued commendation the whole society of Iesuits But why doe I compare these burning lights bright starres of piety and religion with the base scumme of your Doctors and this now is another of your reasons why you were so desirous to haue audience in the Vniuersity Schooles If you be Campian sodesirous as you would make the world beleeue I maruell why you are so long a comming for our schooles were euer open for you but you could neuer find the way into them If you hereafter come you shall find many in our schooles that will encounter with you in all kind of learning And heere you end your discourse of the right sense of the Scriptures EDMVND CAMPIAN The third Reason which is the nature of the Church SO soone as the Aduersarie heard the Church named hee waxed wanne yet notwithstanding hee hath deuised one thing which I would wish you to note well that thereby you may perceiue the ruine and hard shifts of falsehood The enemie perceiued that both in the a Apoc. 2. Psal 7. Isay q. 32. Cant. 6. old and new b Mat. 13. Ephes 5. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. 3. Ioan. 15. Matth. 16. Matth. 18. Testament there is euery where * The scripture maketh honorable mention of the Church therefore the Romane Church is that true Church of Christ of which the Scripture speaketh so â—â—ten honorable mention made of the Church and that it is called a holy citie a fruitfull vineyard an high hill a direct path the only doue the kingdome of heauen the spouse and bodie of Christ the pillar of truth the multitude vnto which the holy Ghost being promised powreth all things needfull to saluatioÌ„ The congregation against all which the gates of hell shall neuer so preuaile that they shall vtterlie extinguish the same The congregation which who so repugneth though he confesse Christ with his mouth yet hath he no more to doe with Christ then hath a Publican and heathen man He durst not say any thing against this openly neither would hee seeme to gain-say that Church whereof the Scriptures so often make mention He kept craftily still the name of the Church but the thing it self by describing it he * This is false for your definition maketh a true Church took quite away For he hath portraied the Church with such properties as doe altogether hide it and make it as if it were Plato his Idea c Caluin Jnst. lib. 4. cup. 1. Num. 2.3 Apoc. 1.2 3. vnapt to be seene with the senses but subiect to the priuy insight and speculation of a very few men such onely as by speciall inspiration might in their imagination comprehend this arrie bodie and could likewise with a sharpe eye discerne such as are members of this chosen societie what is become of truth where is plaine dealing what Scriptures what iust iudgmentes what Fathers describe the Church in this sorte * Particular Churches are visible therefore the Catholik Church is visible There are Epistles in the Apocalyppes of S. Iohn written by d Act. 8.10.11 seq Christ himselfe to the seauen Churches which were in Asia There are also diuerse Epistles written by S. Peter S. Paul S. Iohn and by others vnto sundry Churches In the Actes of the Apostles we finde mention made of many Churches begun and enlarged what were those were they knowne to God onelie and to his Saintes or also to all sortes of Christians But truly necessitie is a deadly dart pardon them for they that all these * This is false our doctrine hath been deriued from Christ himselfe vnto vs by the faithfull of all ages 1500 yeeres cannot spie out so much as one time one village one house embrued with their doctrine vntill that vnhappie e Lutherus Moncke by his incestuous marriage had destoured a Nunne dedicated to God by former solemne vowe or vntill that quarrelling Swizer f Zuinglius had conspired against his countrie or vntill that infamous runagate g Caluinus had vndertaken an vsurped authoritie in Geneua If they will haue any Church at all they must needes fetch the same out of blind corners and challenge those for their ancestors whom they neither knew themselues neither any mortall man hath seene except they brage of such forefathers who were manifest heretiques as Aerius Iouinianus Henri Pantal in Chrenogra Heluidius Vigillantius the Image breakers Berengarius Waldensis Lothardus Wyclife Husse of all which they haue begged some peices of their diuelish doctrine Maruaile not though I haue not feared these smoders which if I shall once come to the cleare light I shall easily expell For this is our speech together Tell me dost thou beleeue as the Church doth which flourished these many hundred yeeres past Yea verilie let vs therefore discourse of our countries and times what Church dost thou beleeue The congregation of the faithfull whosenames are vnknowne but it is apparant that many such haue been Is it apparant that manie such haue been To whom it is apparant To God who saith so we that haue receiued our doctrine from God himselfe This is a loude lie how may I beleeue it If thou were feruent in faith thou should know this as assuredlie as thou dost that thou art aliue Can you refraine laughing when you heare such foolish answers All Christian people are commannded to cleaue fast vnto the Church they are warned to take heed lest they be slaine with the spirituall sword they are bid keepe peace in the house of God to commit their soules in trust vnto this pillar of truth there to make all their complaints to take for heathen all such as are cast out of this Church and yet all that haue so many men so manie hundred yeeres been ignorant where that Church is or who belong vnto it will they in darkenesse still stand vpon that point that where or in what place soeuer the Church is there are contained therein onely saints and such as are predestinate to goe to heauen whereby it falleth out that if any man will refuse to obey his prelate he may thinke himselfe to be blamelesse in so doing if hee perswade himselfe that his said prelate hath committed any great offence by that meanes is excommunicated out of the Church When I perceiued that my aduersaries inuented such deuises and that they would not associate themselues to any Church that heretofore hath been
WHIT. pag 272. It the Arrians or any other heretike can proue the doctrine of their Churches out of the holy Scriptures they may answere the same which we doe for euery Church which holdeth the Apostles doctrine may professe that all cities village◠〈◊〉 which were religous were seasoned with their doctrine for in the Apostles time all Churches all cities all townes euery family embraced the same faith and religion which we now professe After that by little and little the purity of doctrine n DVR Tell me then from whom and in what age any doctrine of our profession was brought into the Church WHIT. pag. 277. The motion of the Sunne is so very swift that we may see it hath moued though we cannot discerne the mouing of it so such is the mystery of your iniquity that I well perceiue by the Scriptures your doctrines are not Apostolicall but the time when and the manner how they were brought in is not much to our purpose And it were too long to tell all yet heare some Your Romish Bishop a long time together was but equall to other Bishops thâ—ugh much was giuen to him for the excellency of that Church After the Christian world was diuided into foure Prouinces when he became the chiefe of the Patriarkes after this he began to challenge authority ouer other Churches and for that purpose counterfeited the Councell of Nice but he was repressed by the African Councell Then Gregory the great greatly inueyed against Iohn of Constantinople because he sought the name of vniuersall Bishop and for that ambition called him the forerunner of Antichrist Lastly Boniface the eight with a great summe obtained that honor of Phocas the Parricide And since that hee grew to that height that hee made not only Churches and Kings but the Christian Emperour himselfe to kisse his feete But see another example Time was when there were no images in Churches As that of Epiphanius proueth who rent a vaile in peeces because there was in it an image of Christ or of some Saint But in time they were receiued into the Church but no honor giuen them yet after that good Bishops brake them and cast them out againe as Gregory writeth that Serenus the Bishop of Massilia did whom he thus checketh for it In that you forbad them to be worshipped wee commend you but that you brake them we reprehend you Gregor regist lib. 7. Epist. 9. Lastly the second Nicene Councell decreed that they were not to be broken yea that they were religiously to be worshipped And thus hath it succeeded in other things as S. Paul did foretellâ—e saying The mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke 2. Thess 2.7 began to be corrupted and diuers superstitions spread far and neare though the holy Fathers did as much as they could resist 2. Thess 2.7 vntill that mystery of iniquitie which tooke rooting in the very Apostles time spread it selfe o DVR VVhat can be spoken or imagined more wicked and impious WHIT. pag. 278. Then prophesied S. Paul impiously when he did so â—â—â—ell of a departing and that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God Is this any other then that the mysterie of iniquitie should spread it selfe ouer the Church by all the parts of the Church and at length possessed it wholy Yet Antichrist that man of sinne could neuer preuaile so farre but a great multitude of the Saints remained and those whose names were written in the booke of life did vtterly abhorre all those filthie and wicked superstitions of Antichrist For in the Church of Rome it selfe euen in the worth times of it yet many were euer found who worshipped the God of their Fathers and kept themselues vnpolluted with that horrible Idolatrie And this can histories of all times witnesse which I could now recite if it were needful and reckon vp to you many houses villages townes cities and countries where Christ had many and populous Churches The p DVR This is very false for in the FloreÌ„tine Councell the Emperour Paleolus together with the Grecians and Armenians freely acknowledged the Pope to be the Vicar of Christ and imbraced the Romane faith yea and at this day they dissent from vs in few things as Icremy the Patriarke of Constantinople hath plainly written WHIT pag. 279. Why are they then of you accounted Schismatickes or vvhy obey they not the Pope why came they not to the Councell of Trent the Pope by al meanes hath sought to haue theÌ„ subiect to him but they stil coÌ„temne him to his no small griefe It is true the Emperour the Patriarke and a multitude of Bishops came to the FloreÌ„tine CouÌ„cel They agreed vvith theÌ„ in many things â—â—â—hers they dissented your TraÌ„substantiation they vtterly renouÌ„ced At that time Iesaphus their Patriarke suddenly died Eugenius the Pope instantly vrged a nevv election They denied to make any till they came to Constantinople See you not hovv vvell they agree I haue a booke of yours not of Ieremies neither vvill a small thing make me beleeue it is his for both the Grecianâ— and particularly he hath giuer great approbation of our Churches as vve find it in his vvorkes published both in Greeke and Latin Greeke Church could neuer yet be brought to ioyne it self to your Church and it is 〈◊〉 opposite to you as euer our Church was And yet you so forge these things as if the Pope of Rome long agoe had had the whole world vnder his subiection Vntill that vnhappy Monke as you say by his incestâ—â—â—â— marriage had defloured a Nunne dedicated to God by 〈◊〉 soleâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 or vntill that quarrelling Swâ—â—â— had câ—â—spired against his country or that infamous â—â—â—â—gate had vndertaken an vsurped authority in Geâ—â—â—â— So Campian go on to raile and reuile euery good man powre out the gall of your bitternes seeing you haue vndertaken to spend all your venemous darts vpon them Luthers name is written in the book of life and his memory shal euer be sacred among all good men and your reproaches shall not be able to pearce or wound him It is a true saying that a false repreach pierceth not the skinne you call him Monke your selfe is but a Frier now Monkes were euer accounted more honest then Friers But he by incestuous marriage deâ—â—oured 〈◊〉 Nomâ—â—â— dedicated to God by solemne vow q DVR But you goe against S. Paul who directly denounced damnation to those who will marry hauing broken their first saith which is vnderstood by all the Fathers of violating the vow of single life by incestuous marriages WHIT. pag. 281. But how proue you that the Apostle vnderstaÌ„deth by that faith the vow of virginity Nay the scope of the place sheweth vs the contrary for he forbiddeth that younger widdowes whom he perswadeth to marry should be taken into that office only such as were threescore yeares old who may well abstaine from marriages follow this calling Now if they be not of this age he sheweth
was Bishop and by what proceedings it increased You Romanisâ— condemne the Greeke Church and yet it is nothing so corrupt as yours c DVR You require an easie thing for the authors of the heresies of the Greeke Church vve can easily number out of their stories Samosatenus Eutyches Sergius Arrius Nestorius Macedonius and such like WHIT. pag. 486. It is a vvonder that you vvill obiect these heresies vnto the Greeke Church vvhen you cannot bee ignorant but that moe and more horrible heresies sprung vp in the Romish Church and almost in the middest of Rome For Valentinus Marcion Cerdon Florentius Blasius Tatianus Nouatus Pelagius Julianus Celestinus and other such did broach most pestiferous heresies in Rome If you ansvvere the Latin Church condemned these I can ansvvere so for the Greeke Church And if you thinke you haue obiected vvell in numbring certeine heresies of the Greeke Church you may thinke I haue ansvvered asvvell in reckoning the heresies of the Latin Church Declare now vnto me those circumstances of time in the declining of this Church which you demaund for your owne Poynt out the time the Bishop and the growth of their Apostasie As the alteration of these Churches was then easie to bee discerned when it first beganne though now it be very hard to finde out those circumstances so we see plainely a great change in the Church of Rome yet can we not certainely pronounce the seuerall times of their seuerall declining Many are manifest which were too long to rehearse and those are distinguished according to their times and seasons The case was with the Church of Rome as we see it is in a great building for as a house which is strongly built at the first continueth so of it selfe a long time after sound and whole but if for a time it be left and neglected it beginneth in some place to decay and to bee full of chinkes which in time waxe big by degrees till they threaten ruine to the posts and roofes themselues and at length by this meanes the whole building is ruinated and falleth downe so the Romane Church in processe of time declined from her auncient estate and by the infection of error and superstition daily preuailing at length shee lost the very spirit and life of the Church Eusebius reporteth that one Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus had written of the Church that she was whilest the Apostles liued a chaste and vndefiled Virgin For then they that would haue altered the holy paterne of sound doctrine did it faintly and fearefully not daring to creepe out of their holes d DVR O horrible fact ó intolerable vvickednes vvith vvhat face can you thus speak if you remember hovv Christ promised his spouse perpetuall preseruation Hose 2.20 Isa 59.21 Psal 131.17 and such like WHIT pag. 4â—8 If your arguments vvere as great as your outeries vvho could deale vvith you That the Church may be corrupted see these places Matth. 13.25 1. Cor. 5.6 2. Cor. 11.3 Isay 1.21 Gal. 1.6 and 2.1 Further vvhat haue I else spoken that Eusebius lib. 3. cap. 32. and Nicephorus lib. 3. cap. 7. 10. haue not before time vvritten And vvhen I vvrit these things I remembred vvell those promises and many other of that kind But I knovv that they belong to the Church of the elect and hinder not but that particular Churches may bee corrupted by error and false doctrine DVR Eusebius doth not anouch these from Polycrates but from Hegesippus vvho called the Church a Virgin because heretikes as yet had not openly opposed her and corrupted the seates of the Apostles and did not say that shee vvas corrupted after them WHIT. pag. 490. The matter is not great vvhich of them spake the vvords for vvhosoeuer shall vvergh the vvords shall see that the sense of them is as I haue said And if the Church vvas euer to remaine a chast and pure Virgin hovv foolish should that Hegesippus be in affirming that hitherto she remained a Virgin or vvhat may his meaning bee else then that the Apostles being dead she began to be corrupted vvhich the vvords follovving proue vvhen that age vvas ouerpassed then she began to be corrupted vvith impious error Yea and vvhen you say that as yet heretikes had not assaulted her nor inuaded the tents of the Apostles either you say nothing or you graunt that after the Apostles time they did assault her and preuaile against her But after that the Apostles departed vnto the heauenly mansions and none of that age left that had been hearers of Christ himselfe neither any of the Apostles liuing then began abhominable error to gather strength and openly in the Churches to aduaunce it selfe What more pregnant testimonie of antiquitie and historie can you desire Whilest the Apostles liued the Church was a Virgin assoone as they were dead she became corrupted and the mischiefe no doubt in time increased and spread it selfe abroade But I woonder that this e DVR Nay rather if hee were liuing hee would wonder at your foâ—lie who are either so ignorant or so forgetfull that you obserue not hovv Polycrates sent letters to Pope Victor touching the new coÌ„trouersie about the cele bration of the Passeouer WHIT. pag. 492. It seemeth in policie you passe ouer this place in silence without answere and tel vs a tale of another different thing which affordeth vs a strong argument against the tyranny of the Pope for if the most learned and holy Bishops of the Greeke Churches dissented greatly from the Pope in the celebration of Easter and would not follow the custome of the Pope and Romish Church though the Pope sought it by all meanes who can doubt but that this supreame power of the Pope ouer all Churches vnder Christ as his Vicar was vnknowne and vnheard of among them Polycrates was either so ignorant or forgetfull that hee considered not this that the Pope of Rome was left vnto the Church in the Apostles roomes to defend this Virgin and preserue her chastitie Why calleth hee the Church a Virgin Because the Apostles were liuing by whom her audacious aduersaries were alwaies discouraged and discomforted But either in this respect the Church now wanteth a Pope or else shee needes him not at all But Polycrates although there were none left to preserue the puritie of this Virgin bewaileth her want as you see which surely had been vnaduifedly done if his opinion had been that this charge belonged to the Bishop of Rome The Church then from the Apostles time began to decline and inclined to the apostasie which the Apostle did foretell should be and we see now fulfilled Then those Wolues of whom the Apostle did forewarne Act. â—0 19 came into the Church and ceased not to destroy the flocke Then those Antichrists whereof Iohn affirmeth some were in his time 1. Ioh. â— 18 began to vndertake the worke which after was perfected and accomplished I might heere shew you many euident tokens of your
Therefore you see there is no reason why for this cause Luther should either find fault with or feare the Epistle of S. Iames. And thus Augustine hath reconciled these two Apostles Iames and Paul that you may see that we are not broachers of any Noueltie Wherefore saith m DVR Augustine maketh nothing for you but against you WHIT. pag. 50. Augustinâ— affirmâ—th directly that S. Iames speaketh of a vaine and fayned faith which is as much as we here produce him for Augustine Aug. quaesâ— 85 quaeâ—t 76. the iudgements of the two Apostles S. Paul S. Iames are not contrarie each to other when the one saith a man is iustified by faith without workes and the other saith that it is a vaine faith which is without workes because S. Paul speakâ—th of workes which goe before faith Saint Iames of workes which follow faith at S. Paul himselfe sheweth in many places Therefore the Apostle S. Iames would not neither ought to detract any thing from the doctrine of iustification which Luther learned from S. Paul Yea all Papists and Iesuits shall sooner be torne asunder then this iudgement of Luther touching faith alone shall either quaile or be ouerthrowne From Luther you turne the edge of your speech to the whelpes of Luther for so you as an vncleane dogge terme men famous and flourishing with all good qualities But why you should so call them I well conceiue not vnlesse it be for that they neuer cease barking against your Bishops and Monkes and other Church robbers like your selfe But let vs heare what heynous thing those whelpes haue committed They haue on a suddaine put out of the true Canon of the Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees and many other bookes Say you of a suddaine Campian Is it true indeed that you are such a stranger in the writings of the auncient Fathers that you know not that long agoe these bookes were raced out of the Canon Looke I pray you into Hierome and out of him call to mind what antiquitie hath done That we may know saith n DVR Hierome saith that the former Churches did not receiue these bookes for Canonicall but denies them not to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 52. Hicrome affirmeth not only that these bookes were not receiued of the fore-going Churches for Canonical but himself oâ—ten times denies them to be such and plainely cals them Apochâ—ypha bookes which he wâ—uld neuer haue done if the Church then had taken them for Canonicall yea and as Duraeus confesseth they were not so taken vntill â—lmoâ—t 70â— yeâ—res afâ—er Christ Hierome Hieron iâ— Prologo Galiato Whatsoeuer bookes are more then these they are to be accouÌ„ted among the Apochrypha Therefore Wisdome which commonly is called the Wisdome of Salomon and the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach and Iudith and Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon Will you that are but a Frier put these bookes in the Canon which Hierome following the iudgement of the auncient Church and the truth it selfe denieth to be in the Canon marke well his owne words They are not in the Canon You say that we haue dashed them out and why should we not so doe For saith Hierome they are not in the Canon Desire you any further testimonies Epiphanius saith as much as Hierome who after he had recited diuers bookes which you say we haue put out of the Canon he thus writeth as Cornarius renders his words out of the Greeke These bookes verily are profitable and helpefull Epiphan in lib. de mensur Ponder but they are not reckoned in the number of those which are receiued Therefore they are not to be found in Aaron neither in the arke of the Couenant But see out of Hierome more manifest and pregnant things Hieron praefat in lib. Solomon As therfore the Church readeth the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Macchabees but accounteth them not Canonicall Scripture so also these two bookes he meaneth Wisdome and Ecclesiasticus it reades for edification of the common sort not for confirmation of any doctrine of the Church If Campian you be ignorant of these auncient testimonies you are but a young souldier in that kind of fight where you would be thought a well experienced Captaine but if you know them you are too vniust and iniurious vnto vs to obiect to vs I know not what desporation because wee admit not those bookes in the Canon of the Scripture which Antiquitie tels vs directly were neuer admitted neither are to be admitted Caietan in cap 24. Mattb. And verily Cardinall Caietan feares not to auouch that he that writ the booke of the Macchabees in a certeine prophesie of Daniels was a lyer but the holy Ghost was neuer wont to be deceiued in the interpreting of the Scripture Now wheras you imagine that we are conuinced by those Oracles as often as we dispute against the defence of Angels as often as we dispute against freewill as often as we dispute against praying to Saints You must fiâ—st before you can conuince vs proue that an argument will conclude necessarily out of those bookes to confirme the doctrine of the Church which Hierome demeth and you shall neuer be able to proue though you call all the Iesuits to a consultation And seeing you obiect desperation to vs see hoâ— you bewray your owne miserable â—esperation who cannot establish the Articles of your faith by the Canonicall Scriptures but you she to the Apocâ—ypha whose authority hath bin and for euer shall be doubted of in the Church The Lord hath commited his Will and Woâ—d to writing and commended it to his Church Those writings with all diligence and piety we receiue and reuerence we are content with them and we maintaine theiâ— sufficiency let goe then these questionable obscure and Apochrypha bookes and out of these contend with vs about religion But your religion long agoe hath passed beyond the bounds of the sacred Scripture and hath broken forth into many superstitions And hence it is that you doe the thing than which nothing can be more malapert and intolerable that is make of like authoritie with holy Scripture not only the Apochrypha bookes but euery o DVR Pag. 5â— â—â—e do not affâ—me Traditions to be of the same authority with the holy Scriptures WHIT. pag. 59 Though Duraeus heere denieth it yet the Councell of â—rent doth with the like holy affection and reuerence receiue and honor them as it doth the bookes oâ— the old and new Testamâ—nt See Decâ—et 1. Sess 4. vnwritten Tradition whersoeuer you come by them at the second or third hand But what do I telling you of these things who shamefully haue aduentured long since to violate and infâ—inge all the lawes both of God and man Take this from me if you can demonstrate that we haue condemned or reiected any one booke or any p DVR Pag. 64. You haue raced out these words out of S. Iohn Euery spirit
hasted into the Gourt hauing no promise from the Prince to rest vpon But Campian flie you rather to the Indians that you may take a suruey of your Popes new Prouince for our most wise Prince desires no such guests but banisheth you as farre as she can from her But now at length you returne thither whence you haue digressed and gloriouslie conclude this poynt concerning Councels saying The generall Councels make all for me the first last and middle You haue gotten an easie and speedie victorie I am almost perswaded that you are become another Caesar Vâ—ni vidi vici I came I sawe I ouercame but this is not to dart your Iaueling which you say is looped for the purpose I see words as it were tied together with strings or rather franticke speeches but as yet I discerne no speare either a Iauelin or a thongue or strength or which I rather beleeue all these are wanting vnto you Surely we of the Vniuersities Campian doe greatly desire to trie how skilfully you haue learned to tosse your speare and we hope it will come to passe that you being pierced with our darts will at length know and acknowledge your audacious temeritie and slothfull ignorance of this fight EDMVND CAMPIAN The fifth Reason which is the Fathers AS that famous Sirname of Christians increased first in a Act. 1â— Antioch so b 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4.1 Cor. 14. Doctors that is very deepe Diuines and Prophets that is most famous Preachers first flourished there Our Lord himselfe prouided for his flocke in time to come such a sort of c Matth. 13.23 Scribes and wise men as were experienced in the kingdome of God bringing forth both old new things that is hauing God still both in Christ and Moses in the new and old Testament How mischieuous an act is it to expel with rebuke these men which were giuen vs by God for a speciall benefit The Aduersarie hath * This is false for we neuer hissed out any learned scribe expelled them For what cause for that if they had stood vpright he of necessity had fallen downe So soone as I throughlie perceiued that without any more adoo I desired to make not that flourishing fight which the common sort of people vse when they contend one with another in the open streetes but that seuere and sharpe combate by which we buckle one with another in your Philosophy schooles foot by foot man by man close ioyned together If we may once come to the Fathers the field is fought the wager wonne on our side For they are all ours assure as Gregory the 13. is a most louing Father to all the Churches children For to d S. Dion Areo pag. de quo vide Adon Treu. in Martyrel Adon. Turon Syng Suid. Metap omit diuers places which here and there dispersed being gathered together out of the auncient writings of the Fathers do very fitly and plainelie fortifie our faith we haue their whole bookes which of set purpose do expresly and copiously paint out liuely that selfe same Euangelicall religion which wee maintaine What orders of heauenly powers what sacrifices what solomne rites doth that two-fold Hierarchy of the Martyr S. Denys make knowne vnto vs That matter touched c Coment in 1.13 17. Deut. Item in cap. â—ab Luther so nigh the quicke that he affirmed this blessed mans writings to be most like to dreames and most pernicious f Dial. 5. 11. Caussaeus an obscure vpstart in Fraunce following the steppes of his Father Luther blushed not to tearme this Apostle S. * This Denys is counterfeice and forged Denys borne in a noble countrie an old dotard g Cent. 2. cap. 10. Inst lib. 1. cap. 13 num 29. The Magdeburgeans which lately set forth the Ecclesiasticall historie in Centuries were greatly grieued at S. * This Ignatius is counterfeite Ignatius so was Caluin also Insomuch that these bench whistlers pried out certaine foule blemeshes and vnsauorie speeches in his Epistles In these mens conceits also S. Ireneus writ one foolish toy and S. Clement who was author of the booke called Stromatum yeelded out of his works cockle and dregges And the residue h Cent. 2. cap. 5. vide Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. Seqq. of the Fathers of this age which were in very deed * They were Apostolike men yet they did not commit to writing all the things the Apostles did Apostolike men left vnto their posteritie blasphemous and monstrous doctrine In i Lib. de Prascript contra Haâ— Tertullian they greedily catch at that fault which being told therof by vs they with vs also detest But let them call to mind the booke which he writ de Praescriptionibus wherwith the heretikes of our time had so sound a blow was neuer hither to reprehended by the Church How sufficientlie and euidently hath * This Hyppolitus is counterfeite Hyppolitus k Orat. de consum Secul Bishop of Portua foreshewed the raigne of Luthers heresies which was a strong pillar in Antichrists building And for that cause they call him amost childish scrible a masker That l Iuel c. causs Dial. 8. 11. criticall French man Caussaeus and the m Cent. 3. cap. 4. Magdeburgeans do call S. Cyprian who was the flower and honor of Africke a blocke head a man cast out of Gods sight a deprauer of the true doctrine of Penance why what hath he done he hath writ for sooth one booke of Virginity and another of those that are Relapsed and certaine treatises of the vnity of the Church yea such Epistles also vnto Cornelius Bishop of Rome that except this blessed Martyr be disgraced Peter Martyr the Vermillian and all his confeder aâ—s must bee taken for worse then adulternous Church-robbers And lest I should stand too long vpon particularties aft the Fathers of that age are n Cent. 3. cap. 4. generally * This is false for none doe condemne or reiect the Fathers of this age condemned as men that haue corrupted wonderfully the sincere doctrine of Penance Hoâ— I pray you the Austerity for sooth of the o Canones Poenitentiâ— veâ—eres Canons which at that time was vsed doth highly displease this plausible sect which are fitter for Chambers then for Churches and is accustomed to tickle sensuall eares and to so â—cushions to euery elbow wherein I say wherein hath the next age offended forsooth S. Chrysostome and other Fathers of that time haue fouly darkened iustification by faith only S. Gregory Nazianzen whom auncient writers for honor sake haue Sirnamed Theologus 1. the Diuine by Caussaeus iudgement was but a q Dia. 6.7.8 brabler and knew not what to say S. Ambrose was bewitched of an euill spirit S. r Beza in Act. Apost ca. 23. Stancha li. de Trin. Hierome is as * This which concerneth S. Hierome is all false deeply damned in hell as the diuell himselfe
to be vâ—righteousnes if it be rightly iudged of Now he that calleth our rigeteousnes vnrighteousnes what saith he else then that which Luther said That there is some sinne in euery good vvorke This Paradoxe therefore Luther learned our of the Scriptures and auncient Fathers But to come to your slender reasons If thou take a vvife thou sinnest not I answere heere is a fallacie For we say not to marrie a wise is sinne but that they vvho marrie wiues intermixe some sinne in that good action And to the place of S. Peter I say that there you vse also a fallacy for to fall in that place signifieth to fall away wholy and altogether from grace and saluation For the place of S. Iohn vve meane not that good workes are sinnes but that they haue some sinne mixed with them For it followeth not that siluer is drosse because it hath some drosse mingled with it And Christ came not to the end there should be no sinne left in his Saints whilest they liue here but that he might take away the guilt of sinne And what if S. Paul hath compared our good workes to siluer gold or precious stones Know you not that euen in the best mettals and in such stones there may some drosse be found But the Apostle compareth sound doctrine to these things than which there is nothing more precious if it be kept pure and incorrupted The Prophets and Apostles do well to exhort vs to doe good workes but if they bid vs do our duty doth it therefore follow that vvee may not commit some sinne in doing thereof Last of all touching your demaund concerning faith you bewray your ignorance for we are not iustified by faith as it is a worke or action of ours for it is imperfect but because it is as the hand wherby we lay hold on Christ and Christ calleth faith a worke either by imitation or because it is the worke of the holy Ghost that kindleth it in our hearts Luther said this and hee saide it truely For in euery action of a man l DVR Therefore no action can euer be either excellent or good VVell said Dionysius That that vvhich is good must nâ—edes come of a cause perfectly good WHIT. pag. 701. Is there any so dull as to say that there is no health not soundnes in the body at all because there is onlie some thing in the body not so sound as it should be As for Dionysius he speaketh of that entire and perfect good which we neuer attaine to in this life For as long as the flesh lusteth against the spirit there can be no such entire good in vs proceeding from entire and perfect causes though neuer so excelleÌ„t there is some fault which may wholy marre the action and make it odious to God if that which is done bee weighed in the ballance of diuine iustice But after that the Lord hath receiued vs wholy to fauour in Christ those things which are but begun in vs besprinkled with some blots m DVR VVhat a monstrous speech is this Is it possible that euen sinnes should please God WHIT. pag. 702. Can you put no difference betvveene the corruption of the action and the action it selfe A good father loueth the obedience and dutie of his sonne vvhich he knovveth neuerthelesse is not such as it ought to be and how much more doth God accept the slender and vveake endeuours of his children yet they please him as if they were entire and pure because he looketh vpon our persons and he doth not make search into the worth and merit of the worke These things spake Luther and confirmed them by the sentences of sacred Scriptures and holy Fathers which you could much more easilie passe by than confute Goe forward No man of himselfe thinketh euill This is maliciously obiected as are all the rest God doth throw into no man an euill thought he compelleth the will of none to sinne yet nothing is done by chaunce or fortune and in the very sinnes of men the prouidence of God ruleth Those thoughts of men which are euill spring out of a certaine inbred naughtines proper to euery one and yet the Lord can applie them to his owne will For so Ioseph answereth his brethren Ye thought euill against me but the Lord turned it to good Gen. 50.20 Now you adde n DVR Then vvhy ansvvered Christ the yong man in the Gospell vvith this keepe the CoÌ„mandements And hovv doe theeues and adulterers sinne or hovv is it a sinne novv to omit the duties of the morall Lavv more then to omit offering vp of sacrifices WHIT. pag. 703. That vvhich Christ ansvvered to the yong man Matth. 19.17 may vvell bee said vnto you For you seeke righteousnes by the Lavv vvherefore keepe the Lavv if you vvill enter into life But here you shall find no vvay to enter Luther nor any of vs euer denied that the Lavv pertaineth vnto Christians For the righteousnes of the Lavv is eternall and euery man ought vvith all endeuour to frame his life according to the same But it is one thing to bee bound by the Lavv and another thing to conforme and frâ—me our liues by the rule of the Lavv. Wherfore theeues do sinne and are iustly punished and much more they that establish the ceremonies of Moses Lavv vvhich are vvholy abrogated The decalogue belongeth not to Christians God doth not care for our workes Touching the decalogue and workes this answere I make you briefely In the law the olde couenant is contained Doe this and liue Gal. 3.10 Deut. 27.26 o DVR Moses denounceth not the cursse against the breaches of euery small precept but to those only vvhich he there reckoneth vp vvhich vvere certainly very haynous sinnes WHIT. pag. 708. If that curse be only proper to those vvho are guilty of the sinnes there numbred and set dovvne vvhat shall vve then thinke of blasphemers adulterers and of other horrible malefactors are they free from this cursse if this be impious and absurde then must it be vnderstood of all euen as many as do transgresse the Lavv. And so S. Paul interpreteth the place vvho vndoubtedly vnderstood the meaning of Moses better then all Iesuites For he instructing the Galathians as concerning the iustice of the Lavv proueth by this testimonie Gal. 3.10 that none can be iustified by the vvorks of the Lavv but he that continueth in all things Either then deny that any lavv vvas vvritten touching small offences or else confesse that that cursse belongeth to the least offences If the Apostle had vnderstood it as you doe the Galathians might haue ansvvered him that they vvere free from those great sinnes and so from the cursse and therefore might vvell hope to be iustified by the Lavv. Finally if Gal. 3.13 Christ hath freed vs from the cursse of the Law shall vve thinke that this is only from the cursse due to a fevv grieuous sinners I hope by this time you see
meates and prescribed obseruation of daies Apoc. 5. because the Prophet highly commendeth a spirituall fast Esay 48. I wil speake a few words both of the one and other that I may cleerly quit vs of this crime of Homonymie Saint Iohn alone hath not named all p DVR By this argument you may as well proue the Iewes had no Priests properly so called WHIT. pag. 809. Not so for the Lord ordained such a Priesthood amongst them which he hath not amongst Christians Christians Priests 1. Pet. 2.5.9 but S. Peter also hath tearmed them a holy and a royall Priesthood and this name is in no place of the new Testament q DVR So the name Sacrament is neuer giuen to Baptisme nor to the Eucharist in the New testament WHIT. pag. 810. But the substance of it agreeth to them both and is there whereas the name Sacerdos a Priest is not in the nevv Testament nor doth the thing it selfe properly belong to any but Christ since his death DVR Yea Christ instituted a sacrifice in his Supper and where a sacrifice is there is a Priest also WHIT. pag. 810. Christ ordeined theÌ„ no sacrifice but only a Sacrament of a sacrifice DVR Esay calleth the Mâ—nisters of the Gospell Priests cap. 6â— 6 66.21 WHIT. Esay in the first place speaketh of all Christians and in the second of Ministers in the phrase of that time vvhence also you may as well say Deacons are Leuites vvhich you vvill not say they are propeâ—ly DVR Ministers are needlesse except they be Priects and as mediators betwixt God and men vnto saluation and your Ministers are but Lay-men WHIT. pag. 810. â—15 They must preach the Word and administer the Sacraments but not offer sacrifice of mediation betwixt God and men as you say you do in the Masse to do these we haue a calling ordeined of Christ for your sacrifice you haue none DVR The Apostles name them not Priests because they are not of the order of Aaron but the Fathers call them Priests who knevv the Apostles mâ—aâ—ing and you call them Priests in English WHIT pag. 812. Christ only is a Priest after the order of Melchisedecke Heb. 7.3 so then there be no Priests at all you confesse the Fathers call them so by custome but not properly the Apostles of purpose abstaining froÌ„ the name of Priests might teach vs hereafter better vvisdome to do so also properly applied to the Ministers of the Gospell For Christ being made an high Priest for euer after the order of Melchisedech hath no copartners of this r DVR True for it is Christ that presenteth himselfe in the sacrifiâ—e vve onely are as ministers WHIT. p. 814. If you be Ministers only then are you not properly Priests why then will you be so called DVR Yet vve as truely sacrifice as baptise WHIT. Thus you will be Ministers only and no Priests nor be copaâ—tners in Christs sacrifice yet you will bâ— tearmed Priests and truly sacrifice these be contraries and cannot stand together yea meere madnes and dotages Priesthood therefore Christ hath left vnto his Churches a Ministerie and not a new Priesthood Neither doth there remaine to vs Å¿ DVR Thus you strippe the Gospell of all sacrifice and â—eligion WHIT. pag. 816. 817. All your religion by this your doctrine is in your Masse which we willingly haue not but notwithstanding we haue the sacrifice of Christ which is perpetuall and inchangeable Heb. 7 2â— 28 and 10.14 your inuisible sacrifice the Scripture knoweth not any such sacrifice for the administration whereof some speciall Priests must needs be authorised For that sacrifice of praise and doing good Hebr. 13.15.16 which the Apostle mentioneth and which now remaineth onely that I say appertaineth indifferently to all Christians Notwithstanding we permit none to execute the administration of this ministery which Christ would haue to be perpetuall in his Church but them whom it concerneth and who are by due order t DVR VVho called Luther Caluin Beza c. your Ministers WHIT. pag. 820. Luther Zuinglius Bucer c. were Priests of your owne and so had a calling except your order of Priesthood be no calling and might call others by your law Againe God is not tied so to order but that he may for the good of the Church call Ministers extraordinarily And the Churches haue lavvfull povver to chuse Ministers so that we need not to call any from you that seruice as saith Cyprian Epist. 68. Thus were Caluiâ— and Beza chosen called thereunto Albeit then Christ haue made vs all both Kings that we might be able to subdue our sinnes and Priests that we might offer him spirituall sacrifices notwithstanding as it is not lawfull for euery man to dreame of a kingdome so it is a thing detestable for any man to enter vpon the holy Ministery who hath not that function committed vnto him by diuine authoritie Wherefore I see not at all why you should charge vs with any such Homonymy or falshood from ambiguous signification in this word As for your maner of fasting that indeed is wholly in shew and hath nothing in it of a Christian fast but the very name For to make choyce of meates as a thing more religious and to prescribe certaine and perpetuall set dayes wherein we must necessarily fast the u DVR This sauoureth of Luthers spirit but Pope Leo saith that the holy Ghost taught the Apostles the disciplâ—ne of fasting for one of the chiefe Sacraments of heauenly doctrine WHIT. pag. 8â—1 c. Wee allow Christian fasting but vvhat spirit taught Leo to say so of your solemne superstitious fasts the Scriptures speake no such thing which wee preferie before all mens iudgements one is witlesse the other superstitious For what man which is not depriued of iudgement and all sense will thinke that he fasteth who so that he abstaine x DVR No Catholike euer said that the force of fasting consisteth in only abstinence from flesh WHIT. pag. 822. All men know that you call your abstinence from flesh in Lent in the Ember daies the Saint Eues c. fasting and that he who then eateth â—â—sh and other meate in abundance in not said amongst you to violate his fast but if one doe but tast flesh you esteeme him a grieeuous malefactor DVR But Elisha Daniel Iohn Baptist made religious choise of meates vvhich you thus call madnes yea Daniel absteined from flesh and vvine to apprease Gods anger vvhose example teacheth vs also to absteine from daintier meates in time of fasting as the Church hath long accustomed WHIT. pag. 823. These holy men did not fast as you doe and teach for Elisha fed the Prophets with wild and bitter herbes not for religion sake but in time of fâ—â—mine for want of other victuall 2. King 4.39 and Daniel absteined not from some only but from all desireable meates Dan. 10.3 not to appease Gods anger as you say
but that he might vvith more liuely sense of his brethrens miserie humble himselfe to God as for John Baptists coÌ„tinuall diet it vvas locusts and vvild hony nothing like your fasting It is meere dorage and superstation to call abstinence only from some delicate meates fasting though other as delicate be eaten as you doe no Prophets nor auncient Christians in the Church euer fasted thus froÌ„ flesh may at his pleasure glut himselfe with all maner of dainties Or who can suppose that the Fridayes fast is holier then the Wednesdayes fast but he must too much sauour of Iudaisme If S. Paul reproued the Galathians Gal. 4.10 because they did obserue dayes and y DVR This is an auncient cauill of heretiks long since ansevered by Ierome and Augustine that vve obserue not the same dayes that Ievves and Gentiles did WHIT. pag. 824. The Church in thâ—ir time did not bind mens consciences to the obseruation of daies as you doe and as did the Galathians iudging it necessarie for Christians to fast at your set times which if it had done yet the authoritie of men must not preuaile more than Scripâ—ures moneths and times is it likely he would endure our Papists which erre more grossely and shamefully If he forewarned the Colossians that they would not be intangled with their superstition Colos 2.21 which thought that some certaine meates were not to be z DVR Saint Paul reprooueth there the practise of Ievvish ceremonies WHIT. pag. 8â—6 True and all other like them which are mans ordinances and doctrines as he saith plamely verse 22. of which sort yours are else shew vs Scripture for them touched not to be tasted not to be handled would he allow the papisticall choice of meates If he determined long since 1. Tim. 4.2.3 that it was diuelish and a DVR You sight against vs vvith the Manichees vveapoâ—s vvhom Augustine aâ—svvered against Faust lib. 30. cap. 5. That true Christians abstaine from certaine meates and fruites more or lesse as they please and are able to tame the bodie and humble the soule against sinne not as though thâ—se creatures vvere vncâ—â—â—e WHIT. pag. 817. Thus you make Saint Paul a Manichee but indeed he there condemneth them and all that forbid to cate meates vnder paine of damnation which you doe and that place of Augustine plainely sheweth how your fasts differ from the Christian fasts in his time first they were to tame and humble men yours doe not so secondly they thought no meates vncleane you say men are polluted by eating some forbidden thirdly they abstained from sith and fruites as from flesh in their fasts you doe not so fourthly they fasted as they thought good and could but you make generall lawes of fastings to binde men thereto hypocriticall to absteine from certaine meates if he were now liuing would he change his doctrine and command this abstinence to a Christian We truely for our parts do alwayes and very highly commend a true fast whether it be priuate or publike neither do we commend them only but also we vse them as this yeare last past may most plentifullie witnesse for vs during which publike fasts were most religiously obserued in very many places As for those fasts of Moses and Dauid Helias and Iohn Baptist and the Apostles wherein were they any whit like vnto yours for if fasting do consist in choyce of meates and in appointing set dayes as you resolutely iudge it doth informe me if you can that they either at any time b DVR The auncient obseruation of Lent of VVednesday and Fridates fast and of the Ember daies might haue informed you hereof WHIT. p. 828. 829. You play the Sophister here in graine for Moses Elias Dauid â—ohn Baptist and the Apostles nouerkept those fasts neither did they nor any of the auncient Fathers preferre fish before flesh in theirâ— fastings as you doe DVR Aeriuâ— vvas counted an heretike vvho taught the same doctrine of fasting vvhich you do Epiphan haerel 75. WHIT. pag. 829. 830. The auncient Church disliked Euslathius his eagernes against Aerius in this point as witnesseth Socrates l. 2. c. 43. Sozomen l. 3. c. 13. Aerius might be an Arrian and so an heretike but of fasting he taught the same with Augustine Epist. 86. that there were no certaine times of fasting appointed by the Apostles Tertullian contra Psychicoâ— witnesseth that in the auncient ChristiaÌ„ church meÌ„ vsed to fast voluÌ„tarily freely not by CanoÌ„ or precept Epiphanius defeÌ„ded Eustathius against the churches iudgmeÌ„t in this point touching Aerius preferred fish before flesh or vsed inioyned and yearely set fasts For Iohn Baptist vsed continually to fast in his manner and the others fasted as the times and present occasions required in which their fasts they absteined as well from fish as from flesh Therefore in one word to wipe away your imputation of Homonymie I denie that we vse any For in that that we require the spirituall fast we dislike not the externall 〈◊〉 Tim. 4.8 howsoeuer this outward fast be nothing profitable without the spirituall But this deceitfull argumentation if there were any such here is rather by inferring a weake consequeÌ„t then by Homonymie or equiuocation how beit what the truth is we haue sufficiently ciscussed You haste forward and ioyne vnto these a fourth manner of deceiptfull disputation Circulatio named Circulation which is when one after a few words to no purpose returneth againe to the same and beggeth the question I acknowledge it to be a grosse and vnsauorie kind of sophistry so to do but shew me an example of our so doing You propound one example namely about the true notes of the Church for heere you say we alwayes make circuits and rounds and vse that very same thing for an argument wherein the question lieth But how prooue you that forsooth because we say the notes of the Church be the word of God and the Sacraments And so we say truly for they who haue these haue a Church of Christ but they who altogether want these are vtterly without both the Church and Christ Let vs contend about these notes that it may be discerned whether you or we haue them Tell me in what Court shall we try this title before what Commissioner before what Iudge shall we commence our plea I suppose the word of God must be consulted with But you say you haue alreadie consulted with it and you now fauour our cause lesse then you did before But I say Campian we rest vpon the word of God and not on your iudgement Yea but say you prooue vnto me that this is the word of God nay it were more meete that you should proue it is not And I also require of you that you will do the same thing which you commaund me to do namely that you will proue your word and Sacraments to be the very same which Christ hath commended vnto his Church Wherefore this