Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	apostle_n	church_n	roman_a	3,080	5	8.0984	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00791	An answer to a pamphlet, intituled: The Fisher catched in his owne net In vvhich, by the vvay, is shevved, that the Protestant Church was not so visible, in al ages, as the true Church ought to be: and consequently, is not the true Church. Of which, men may learne infallible faith, necessarie to saluation. By A.C.	A. C.; Champney, Anthony, 1569?-1643?, attributed name.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649, attributed name.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641, attributed name.	1623 (1623)	STC 10910.4; ESTC S107710	44,806	106

true_a book_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n which_o be_v true_a translation_n and_o which_o be_v right_a interpretation_n for_o both_o about_o scripture_n &_o father_n such_o question_n may_v arise_v and_o can_v be_v well_o decide_v whout_n the_o judgement_n of_o the_o true_a present_a visible_a church_n in_o regard_n scripture_n and_o father_n do_v not_o always_o sufficient_o express_v what_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v in_o the_o aforesaid_a question_n neither_o will_v one_o private_a man_n in_o such_o case_n follow_v another_o opinion_n when_o each_o man_n will_v be_v easy_o incline_v to_o think_v that_o he_o have_v as_o good_a scripture_n or_o father_n or_o reason_n or_o all_o these_o together_o to_o plead_v for_o the_o truth_n of_o his_o opinion_n as_o another_o have_v for_o he_o this_o reason_n may_v be_v confirm_v out_o of_o tertullian_n who_o in_o his_o golden_a book_n of_o prescription_n give_v diverse_a reason_n why_o heretic_n who_o reject_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v not_o be_v admit_v to_o dispute_v out_o of_o scripture_n first_o for_o that_o by_o their_o disputation_n they_o weary_a those_o that_o be_v fame_n they_o overcome_v those_o which_o be_v 15._o weak_a and_o those_o which_o be_v in_o a_o middle_a disposition_n they_o dismiss_v with_o scruple_n or_o doubt_n another_o reason_n tertullian_n give_v because_o this_o heresy_n do_v not_o receive_v some_o scripture_n or_o if_o a_o receive_v it_o pervert_v they_o to_o their_o own_o purpose_n with_o addition_n and_o detraction_n and_o if_o it_o receive_v some_o yet_o not_o whole_a or_o if_o whole_a in_o some_o sort_n yet_o by_o false_a exposition_n it_o turn_v they_o from_o the_o right_a to_o a_o perverse_a sense_n and_o a_o perverse_a or_o corrupt_a sense_n say_v he_o be_v as_o contrary_a to_o 19_o truth_n as_o be_v a_o pervert_v or_o corrupt_v text._n tertullian_n therefore_o for_o these_o reason_n judge_v best_a not_o to_o make_v the_o combat_n in_o scripture_n but_o that_o this_o gap_n shall_v be_v stop_v and_o that_o heretic_n shall_v not_o be_v admit_v to_o any_o disputation_n of_o scripture_n and_o he_o tell_v how_o this_o may_v be_v do_v say_v it_o must_v be_v examine_v sequent_a to_o who_o the_o possession_n of_o scripture_n do_v belong_v to_o the_o intent_n that_o he_o who_o have_v no_o right_a unto_o they_o may_v not_o be_v admit_v unto_o they_o and_o further_o he_o show_v that_o the_o right_a order_n of_o thing_n require_v that_o first_o it_o only_o be_v dispute_v to_o who_o the_o faith_n belong_v as_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v which_o be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n who_o be_v the_o scripture_n from_o who_o by_o who_o when_o and_o to_o who_o be_v deliver_v that_o discipliae_fw-la by_o which_o they_o be_v make_v christian_n for_o where_o there_o shall_v appear_v the_o truth_n of_o christian_a say_v and_o discipline_n to_o be_v as_o doubtless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n there_o shall_v be_v truth_n of_o scripture_n and_o exposition_n and_o all_o christian_a tradition_n and_o have_v show_v how_o christ_n do_v promulgate_v his_o doctrine_n by_o the_o apostle_n he_o further_o prescribe_v that_o what_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n do_v preach_v must_v be_v learn_v no_o otherwise_o then_o by_o the_o church_n which_o they_o found_v so_o as_o every_o doctrine_n agree_v with_o those_o apostolical_a &_o mother-churche_n that_o be_v to_o be_v deem_v true_a and_o what_o do_v not_o agree_v to_o be_v judge_v false_a and_o therefore_o to_o make_v it_o apparent_a that_o the_o heretic_n opinion_n although_o pretend_v by_o themselves_o to_o be_v ccformable_a to_o scripture_n and_o such_o as_o may_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n be_v not_o apostolical_a nor_o true_a he_o urge_v they_o as_o m._n fisher_n urge_v d._n feat_o to_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n and_o to_o unfold_v the_o order_n of_o their_o 32._o bishop_n so_o from_o the_o beginning_n run_v down_o by_o succession_n as_o that_o their_o first_o bishop_n have_v some_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o some_o apostolical_a man_n who_o persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o his_o author_n and_o predecessor_n and_o have_v give_v example_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n who_o can_v thus_o unfold_v the_o order_n of_o their_o pastor_n and_o namely_o rome_n for_o one_o he_o say_v afterwards_o confingant_fw-la tale_n quid_fw-la haeretici_fw-la let_v heretic_n even_o feign_v some_o such_o like_a thing_n thus_o we_o see_v what_o tertullian_n do_v say_v to_o heretic_n of_o his_o time_n by_o which_o we_o may_v learn_v what_o we_o may_v say_v to_o the_o novellist_n of_o our_o time_n who_o offer_v to_o dispute_v with_o we_o about_o scripture_n we_o may_v altogether_o debar_v from_o scripture_n and_o may_v examine_v they_o as_o tertullian_n do_v those_o of_o his_o time_n say_v who_o be_v you_o when_o and_o whence_o come_v you_o what_o have_v you_o to_o do_v in_o my_o ground_n you_o that_o be_v not_o i_o by_o what_o right_o do_v thou_o o_o martion_n we_o may_v say_v o_o martin_n luther_n cut_v down_o my_o wood_n by_o what_o licence_n do_v thou_o o_o valentine_n o_o calvin_n divert_v or_o turn_v aside_o my_o fountain_n by_o what_o power_n do_v thou_o o_o apelles_n o_o anabaptist_n remove_v my_o limit_n why_o do_v you_o o_o the_o rest_n of_o heretic_n sow_n and_o feed_v according_a to_o your_o own_o will_n upon_o my_o land_n and_o pasture_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n i_o be_o the_o ancient_a possessor_n i_o have_v the_o firm_a original_n from_o the_o author_n themselves_o to_o who_o the_o propriety_n do_v first_o belong_v i_o be_o the_o heir_n of_o the_o apostle_n as_o they_o do_v ordain_v in_o their_o testament_n and_o last_o will_n as_o they_o do_v commit_v it_o to_o my_o faithful_a trust_n as_o they_o do_v adjure_v i_o so_o i_o hold_v it_o but_o you_o they_o have_v disinherit_v and_o cast_v out_o as_o stranger_n and_o enemy_n etc._n etc._n so_o as_o by_o this_o prescription_n of_o tertullian_n until_o d._n feat_o or_o some_o other_o can_v by_o other_o mark_n then_o by_o allege_v word_n of_o scripture_n as_o by_o perpetual_a visibility_n and_o interrupt_a succession_n of_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n prove_v protestant_n not_o to_o be_v heretic_n but_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o right_a heir_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o who_o consequent_o belong_v the_o most_o ancient_a &_o first_o possession_n of_o scripture_n m._n fisher_n have_v good_a reason_n and_o right_a to_o defer_v dispute_v with_o he_o out_o of_o scripture_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n until_o he_o have_v make_v his_o full_a induction_n of_o name_n of_o protestant_a churchman_n and_o unfold_v the_o order_n of_o their_o prostant_fw-la bishop_n so_o run_v down_o from_o the_o begin_n by_o succession_n as_o that_o their_o first_o protestant_a bishop_n have_v some_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o some_o apostolical_a man_n who_o persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o his_o author_n &_o predecessor_n the_o which_o i_o account_n to_o be_v so_o impossible_a for_o he_o to_o do_v as_o i_o dare_v and_o do_v challenge_v he_o say_v with_o tertullian_n confingant_fw-la tale_n quid_fw-la haeretici_fw-la let_v d._n feat_o or_o any_o of_o his_o fellow_n protestant_n at_o least_o feign_v because_o i_o be_o sure_a they_o can_v find_v name_n of_o protestant_a bishop_n and_o pastor_n who_o they_o do_v imagine_v for_o prove_v they_o can_v out_o of_o good_a author_n to_o have_v be_v in_o all_o age_n which_o while_o they_o do_v not_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n have_v just_a cause_n to_o think_v that_o neither_o d._n feat_o nor_o d._n white_a can_v perform_v that_o task_n which_o they_o do_v tooto_fw-mi bold_o undertake_v of_o name_v prove_v and_o defend_v visible_a protestant_o in_o all_o age_n &_o thereupon_o all_o man_n may_v as_o i_o do_v conclude_v that_o the_o protestant_a church_n have_v not_o be_v so_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n as_o the_o cathelike_n church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o consequent_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v not_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n which_o we_o profess_v to_o believe_v in_o our_o creed_n neither_o consequent_o be_v their_o i'astour_n and_o doctor_n and_o preacher_n lawful_o send_v or_o sufficient_o authorize_v to_o teach_v and_o expound_v god_n word_n nor_o consequent_o be_v people_n secure_o warrant_v to_o learn_v of_o they_o what_o be_v and_o what_o be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v by_o infallible_a divine_a fa●th_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n nor_o indeed_o ought_v they_o to_o believe_v or_o hear_v they_o at_o all_o but_o aught_o to_o unite_v themselves_o to_o that_o one_o holy_a catholic_a apostolic_a perpetual_o visible_a roman_a church_n hear_v believe_v &_o obey_v the_o pastor_n thereof_o whereby_o they_o may_v have_v infallible_a iustruction_n in_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n secure_a direction_n for_o all_o matter_n concern_v good_a life_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o they_o may_v attain_v remission_n of_o their_o sin_n and_o salvation_n of_o their_o soul_n the_o grace_n of_o god_n in_o this_o life_n and_o endless_a heavenly_a happiness_n in_o the_o next_o unto_o which_o i_o beseech_v sweet_a jesus_n to_o bring_v we_o all_o amen_n finis_fw-la eudaimon_n johannes_n in_o defence_n p._n h._n garn._n d._n bishop_n against_o rob._n abbot_n a_o very_a weak_a and_o insufficient_a satisfaction_n as_o be_v show_v hereafter_o eph._n 4._o heb._n 11._o rom._n 10._o v._n 14_o 15._o eph._n 4._o 11._o ose._n 2._o v_o 19_o 20._o isa._n 59_o 20._o matth._n 18._o 20._o eph._n 4._o v._n 11._o 〈…〉_z m._n fisher._n d._n field_n in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatone_n aug._n lib._n de_fw-fr unitate_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la this_o great_a lady_n do_v express_o say_v that_o the_o conference_n do_v make_v against_o protestant_n even_o as_o it_o be_v relate_v by_o you_o protestant_a relator_n and_o another_o lady_n who_o be_v present_a at_o the_o conference_n do_v protest_v to_o one_o that_o ask_v she_o how_o it_o move_v she_o that_o she_o be_v by_o it_o confirm_v in_o catholic_a religion_n lib._n 1._o inst._n c._n 1._o sect._n 4._o eph._n 4._o v._n 11._o etc._n etc._n rom._n 10._o v._n 14._o etc._n etc._n etc._n luth._o ep_n ad_fw-la argentin_n anno_o 1525._o 1525._o conradus_n schushelb_n in_o theol._n calu._n lib._n 2._o fol._n 130._o b._n versus_fw-la finé_fw-fr finé_fw-fr geo._n mylli_n in_o augustanae_n confessionis_fw-la explie_fw-fr art_n 7._o de_fw-fr eccl._n pag._n 137._o 137._o benedict_n morgé_v trac_fw-la de_fw-fr eccl_n pag._n 145._o 145._o calu._n in_o i._n epist_n ep_n 141._o 141._o bucer_n ep_n ad_fw-la epis._n hereford_n hereford_n beza_n in_o theol._n ep_n epi._n 5._o 5._o jewel_n in_o his_o apolog._n of_o the_o church_n 4_o c._n divis_fw-la 2._o &_o in_o his_o defence_n 42._o 42._o perkins_n in_o exposit_n of_o the_o creed_n creed_n see_v the_o book_n entitle_v the_o author_n and_o substance_n of_o protestant_a religion_n isa._n 59_o v._n 21._o isa._n 61_o 9_o isa._n 60_o 11_o matth._n 5_o 14_o matth._n 18_o 17_o matth._n 28_o 19_o 20_o coccius_n in_o thesauro_fw-la controversiarum_fw-la tomo_fw-la 1._o lib._n 8._o art_n 1._o aug._n in_o psal_n 47._o lib._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles._n cap._n 16._o &_o 25._o isa._n 59_o v._n 21._o 60._o v_o 11._o 61._o v_o 9_o 1._o tim._n 3._o v._n 15._o ephes._n 4._o v_o 4._o 11._o 12._o 13._o 14._o tertul._n lib._n the_o prescript_n luc._n 10._o v._n 16._o matth._n 18._o v._n 17_o tertull._n de_fw-fr praescrip_n c._n 15._o cap._n 19_o cap._n 20._o 21._o 22_o &_o sequent_a cap._n 32._o

a_o answer_n to_o a_o pamphlet_n entitle_v the_o fisher_n catch_v in_o his_o own_o net_n in_o which_o by_o the_o way_n be_v show_v that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v not_o so_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n as_o the_o true_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v and_o consequent_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n of_o which_o man_n may_v learn_v infallible_a faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n by_o a._n c._n matth_n 28._o vers_fw-la 19_o 20._o go_v teach_v all_o nation_n baptise_v they_o etc._n etc._n behold_v i_o be_o with_o you_o all_o day_n even_o to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n ephes._n 4._o vers_fw-la 11_o 14._o christ_n give_v some_o apostle_n and_o some_o prophet_n othersome_a evangelist_n and_o othersome_a pastor_n and_o doctor_n etc._n etc._n that_o we_o be_v not_o child_n waver_a and_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n m._n d._n c._n xxiii_o the_o preface_n gentle_a reader_n although_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o all_o that_o be_v wise_a and_o judicious_a especial_o if_o they_o due_o consider_v the_o occasion_n and_o state_n of_o the_o question_n late_o treat_v in_o a_o conference_n betwixt_o d._n white_n and_o d._n feat_o minister_n and_o m._n fisher_n and_o m._n sweet_a jesuit_n will_v easy_o discern_v even_o by_o that_o false_a relation_n which_o be_v set_v out_o in_o print_n by_o a_o protestant_n that_o the_o protestant_n cause_n have_v not_o gain_v any_o thing_n nevertheless_o because_o those_o who_o be_v partial_o affect_v or_o of_o mean_a capacitte_n may_v as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v doubt_v diver_n do_v conceive_v and_o speak_v amiss_o of_o this_o matter_n to_o the_o disgrace_n of_o the_o catholic_a cause_n and_o the_o prejudice_n of_o their_o own_o and_o other_o man_n soul_n i_o have_v think_v it_o needful_a to_o set_v out_o a_o true_a relation_n of_o the_o occasion_n progress_n and_o issue_n of_o that_o conference_n and_o this_o in_o such_o sort_n as_o diverse_a falsehood_n of_o the_o protestant_a relator_n may_v be_v easy_o perceive_v and_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o protestant_n cause_n may_v be_v evident_o discover_v which_o be_v also_o so_o bad_a as_o it_o seem_v it_o can_v be_v support_v but_o by_o set_v out_o such_o lie_a relation_n the_o sight_n and_o consideration_n whereof_o make_v i_o more_o easy_o believe_v that_o to_o be_v true_a which_o i_o have_v read_v viz._n that_o a_o decree_n be_v make_v by_o divine_n garn._n in_o geneva_n defyne_a it_o lawful_a to_o lie_v for_o the_o honour_n or_o credit_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o that_o conformable_o to_o this_o decree_n a_o english_a minister_n be_v tell_v that_o one_o of_o his_o powfellowe_n have_v make_v lie_n in_o stead_n of_o proof_n of_o his_o protestant_a religion_n do_v answer_v say_v he_o can_v lie_v too_o much_o in_o abbot_n this_o cause_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o bad_a cause_n that_o need_v to_o be_v support_v by_o such_o weak_a and_o bad_a shift_n i_o for_o my_o part_n will_v not_o promise_v to_o have_v perfect_o remember_v and_o set_v down_o every_o word_n that_o pass_v in_o this_o conference_n especial_o speak_v by_o bystander_n nor_o to_o have_v strict_o observe_v the_o precise_a order_n of_o every_o passage_n but_o for_o the_o substance_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o matter_n that_o i_o do_v relate_v i_o assure_v that_o there_o shall_v not_o be_v find_v any_o falsehood_n unless_o it_o be_v in_o some_o of_o those_o parcel_n which_o i_o do_v not_o relate_v of_o myself_o but_o out_o of_o the_o protestant_a relator_n who_o relation_n ordinary_o as_o i_o do_v not_o contradict_v unless_o it_o be_v upon_o necessary_a occasion_n so_o i_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o approve_v but_o simple_o relate_v what_o it_o say_v i_o will_v leave_v it_o to_o other_o to_o judge_v what_o they_o think_v fit_a of_o it_o only_o this_o i_o will_v say_v that_o every_o one_o may_v believe_v it_o so_o far_o as_o it_o relate_v any_o thing_n which_o may_v advantage_v the_o catholic_a defendant_n and_o their_o cause_n or_o disadvantage_n the_o protestant_a disputant_n and_o their_o cause_n for_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o no_o man_n will_v lie_v for_o the_o advantage_n of_o his_o adversary_n or_o his_o cause_n nor_o for_o his_o own_o disadvantage_n but_o in_o such_o thing_n as_o it_o have_v set_v down_o advantageous_o for_o the_o protestant_a disputant_n or_o his_o cause_n there_o be_v just_a reason_n to_o suspect_v it_o in_o regard_n i_o be_o tell_v that_o d._n feat_o himself_o who_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o author_n have_v confess_v that_o more_o be_v say_v in_o the_o relation_n than_o be_v say_v in_o the_o conference_n itself_o and_o i_o be_o sure_a something_o be_v leave_v out_o which_o be_v say_v and_o something_o mis-reported_n this_o be_v premise_v by_o way_n of_o preface_n i_o will_v begin_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o chap._n i._o about_o the_o first_o occasion_n of_o the_o conference_n in_o which_o be_v show_v that_o master_n fisher_n do_v not_o seek_v it_o or_o provoke_v his_o adversary_n by_o any_o challenge_n unto_o it_o nor_o do_v intend_v to_o have_v it_o so_o public_a as_o by_o his_o adversary_n fault_n it_o prove_v the_o protestant_a relator_n of_o this_o conference_n set_v down_o the_o occasion_n in_o these_o word_n edward_z buggs_n esquire_n about_o the_o age_n of_o 70._o year_n be_v late_o sick_a be_v solicit_v by_o some_o papist_n then_o about_o he_o to_o forsake_v the_o protestant_a faith_n tell_v he_o there_o be_v no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n without_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o catholic_a church_n but_o they_o and_o to_o believe_v the_o catholic_a church_n be_v the_o article_n of_o his_o creed_n and_o by_o it_o can_v no_o other_o church_n be_v mean_v but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o all_o the_o protestant_n in_o the_o kingdom_n that_o they_o have_v any_o church_n before_o luther_n this_o gentleman_n be_v much_o trouble_v in_o his_o mind_n with_o these_o and_o the_o like_a suggestion_n who_o all_o his_o life_n time_n have_v be_v and_o process_v himself_o a_o religious_a protestant_n become_v now_o more_o sick_a in_o mind_n then_o body_n after_o his_o recovery_n be_v much_o trouble_v in_o mind_n with_o these_o former_a suggestion_n of_o the_o popish_a priest_n he_o repair_v to_o sir_n humphrey_n lynd_n knight_n who_o by_o reason_n of_o his_o alliance_n and_o long_a acquaintance_n with_o he_o give_v the_o best_a satisfaction_n that_o he_o can_v to_o his_o say_a cousin_n master_n bug_n who_o seem_v to_o take_v content_a in_o such_o his_o conference_n and_o to_o be_v well_o satisfy_v by_o he_o in_o all_o point_n but_o the_o popish_a priest_n and_o jesuit_n not_o desist_v to_o creep_v in_o further_a where_o they_o have_v once_o make_v a_o breach_n persevere_v still_o in_o question_v he_o where_o his_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n whereupon_o he_o repair_v again_o to_o sir_n humphrey_n lynd_n and_o require_v some_o further_a satisfaction_n of_o he_o concern_v that_o demand_n and_o thereupon_o sir_n humphrey_n lynd_n tell_v he_o it_o be_v first_o in_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n hereafter_o consequent_o also_o conspicuous_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o 600._o year_n after_o christ_n after_o which_o time_n some_o error_n creep_v into_o the_o church_n as_o disease_n into_o a_o man_n body_n so_o that_o the_o church_n which_o luther_n &_o we_o acknowledge_v be_v in_o general_a the_o same_o christian_a church_n as_o his_o body_n be_v the_o same_o substantial_a body_n be_v now_o well_o and_o late_o sick_a though_o different_a in_o the_o quality_n etc._n etc._n how_o far_o this_o parcel_n of_o the_o relation_n be_v true_a or_o false_a i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o discuss_v as_o not_o yet_o know_v how_o or_o by_o who_o the_o aforesaid_a gentleman_n come_v first_o to_o doubt_v of_o his_o church_n and_o consequent_o of_o his_o religion_n yet_o i_o have_v some_o cause_n to_o doubt_n that_o it_o be_v not_o altogether_o true_a especial_o in_o that_o he_o say_v the_o popish_a priest_n and_o jesuit_n not_o desist_v to_o creep_v in_o further_o where_o they_o have_v ●●ce_o make_v a_o breach_n persevere_v still_o in_o question_v he_o where_o his_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n for_o i_o do_v not_o think_v that_o many_o if_o any_o at_o all_o priest_n or_o jesuit_n do_v first_o put_v this_o doubt_n into_o the_o old_a gentleman_n his_o head_n nor_o persevere_v in_o question_v he_o about_o it_o and_o for_o master_n fisher_n in_o particular_a i_o know_v certain_o that_o he_o never_o see_v this_o old_a gentleman_n much_o less_o do_v he_o speak_v to_o he_o in_o any_o matter_n of_o religion_n till_o that_o time_n when_o sir_n humphrey_n lynd_n first_o meet_v master_n fisher._n the_o which_o meeting_n be_v mention_v in_o the_o protestant_a relation_n say_v thus_o and_o after_o his_o

a_o paper_n show_v brief_o and_o plain_o how_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n must_v be_v so_o visible_a in_o all_o age_n as_o that_o the_o name_n of_o some_o principal_a member_n thereof_o in_o every_o age_n may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n a_o true_a copy_n of_o which_o paper_n i_o think_v fit_a here_o to_o set_v down_o in_o regard_v it_o may_v serve_v other_o as_o well_o as_o this_o old_a gentleman_n to_o understand_v why_o catholic_n do_v ordinary_o so_o much_o press_v protestant_n to_o name_n if_o they_o can_v protestant_n professor_n in_o all_o age_n as_o catholic_n do_v in_o print_a book_n ordinary_o set_v down_o a_o catalogue_n of_o the_o name_n of_o the_o chief_a pastor_n and_o other_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_a roman_a church_n in_o all_o age_n a_o copy_n of_o the_o first_o paper_n which_o m._n fisher_n write_v and_o deliver_v to_o the_o old_a gentleman_n before_o the_o meeting_n 1._o it_o be_v certain_a there_o be_v one_o and_o but_o one_o true_a infallible_a 11._o faith_n without_o which_o none_o can_v please_v god_n nor_o consequent_o attain_v eternal_a salnation_n 2._o this_o one_o infallible_a faith_n can_v be_v have_v according_a to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n of_o god_n providence_n but_o 11._o by_o hear_v preacher_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n who_o only_o be_v lawful_o send_v and_o authorize_v to_o teach_v the_o true_a word_n of_o god_n 3._o as_o therefore_o this_o one_o infallible_a faith_n have_v be_v and_o must_v be_v in_o all_o age_n so_o there_o must_v needs_o be_v in_o all_o age_n preacher_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o true_a visible_a 11._o church_n of_o who_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n have_v in_o time_n past_a as_o appear_v by_o history_n learned_a and_o must_v in_o all_o future_a time_n learn_v the_o say_v infallible_a truth_n 4._o hence_o follow_v that_o if_o protestant_n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n all_o sort_n of_o man_n who_o in_o every_o 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question_n propose_v to_o he_o to_o dispute_v upon_o the_o content_n whereof_o be_v as_o follow_v the_o question_n propose_v by_o m._n fisher_n in_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o maintain_v the_o negative_a be_v set_v down_o by_o he_o in_o haec_fw-la verba_fw-la whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o age_n go_v before_o luther_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n to_o this_o universal_a demand_n require_v rather_o a_o historical_a large_a volume_n then_o syllogical_a brief_a dispute_n we_o answer_v that_o although_o 1._o divine_a infallible_a faith_n be_v not_o build_v upon_o deduction_n out_o of_o humane_a history_n but_o divine_a revelation_n as_o be_v confess_v by_o the_o schoolman_n and_o express_o by_o bellarmine_n historiae_fw-la humanae_fw-la non_fw-la faciunt_fw-la fidem_fw-la nisi_fw-la humanam_fw-la 2._o and_o this_o question_n be_v ground_v upon_o uncertain_a and_o false_a supposal_n yet_o we_o requite_v this_o proponent_n put_v he_o to_o his_o own_o task_n in_o his_o own_o defence_n by_o propound_v to_o he_o the_o like_a question_n viz._n whether_o the_o romish_a church_n that_o be_v a_o church_n hold_v the_o particular_a entire_a doctrine_n of_o the_o now_o romanist_n as_o it_o be_v comprise_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o first_o 600._o year_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a or_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n we_o will_v answer_v negative_o that_o no_o such_o church_n or_o professor_n can_v be_v show_v this_o paper_n be_v deliver_v to_o m._n fisher_n he_o write_v a_o second_o paper_n to_o explicate_v the_o meaning_n of_o his_o question_n to_o show_v a_o equal_a method_n of_o proceed_v in_o the_o disputation_n a_o copy_n of_o a_o second_o paper_n write_v 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answer_v or_o dispute_v m._n f._n do_v choose_v to_o answer_v and_o defend_v the_o negative_a part_n so_o as_o it_o lie_v upon_o sir_n h._n and_o those_o who_o he_o shall_v choose_v to_o make_v his_o party_n good_a to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n the_o affirmative_a to_o wit_n the_o protestant_n church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o age_n before_o luther_n and_o likewise_o they_o must_v set_v down_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a protestant_n in_o all_o age_n as_o be_v demand_v when_o sir_n h._n or_o his_o friend_n shall_v have_v perform_v this_o their_o task_n m._n fisher_n will_v perform_v what_o be_v require_v in_o the_o paper_n send_v unto_o he_o by_o sir_n h._n in_o the_o same_o sort_n and_o sense_n as_o he_o require_v sir_n h._n and_o his_o friend_n to_o perform_v their_o task_n for_o avoid_v therefore_o of_o all_o mistake_n and_o consequent_o needless_a and_o fruitless_a dispute_n m._n f._n in_o his_o question_n require_v 1._o that_o name_n of_o man_n in_o all_o age_n be_v set_v down_o who_o sir_n h._n and_o his_o friend_n conceive_v to_o have_v be_v protestant_n 2._o that_o those_o man_n who_o name_n they_o set_v down_o be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n to_o agree_v in_o hold_v some_o point_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o protestant_n differ_v from_o the_o roman_a catholic_n 3._o that_o sir_n h._n or_o his_o friend_n will_v defend_v against_o m._n f._n that_o the_o same_o man_n hold_v no_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n one_o different_o from_o another_o and_o from_o the_o present_a protestant_a doctrine_n contain_v in_o the_o 39_o article_n unto_o which_o all_o english_a minister_n be_v swear_v for_o otherwise_o they_o can_v make_v one_o and_o the_o same_o protestant_a church_n in_o this_o sort_n and_o sense_n when_o sir_n h._n or_o his_o friend_n shall_v have_v show_v a_o visible_a protestant_a

out_o of_o good_a author_n and_o therefore_o as_o he_o have_v hear_v the_o roman_a catholik_o make_v no_o difficulty_n to_o produce_v out_o of_o good_a author_n the_o name_n of_o their_o pastor_n &_o people_n in_o all_o age_n so_o he_o much_o desire_v to_o hear_v whether_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_a pastor_n and_o preacher_n in_o all_o age_n can_v not_o also_o be_v produce_v out_o of_o good_a author_n for_o if_o they_o can_v he_o mean_v to_o remain_v a_o protestant_n as_o he_o have_v be_v all_o his_o life_n time_n but_o if_o they_o can_v not_o he_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o leave_v the_o protestant_n and_o to_o adhere_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o learn_v of_o it_o faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n by_o this_o appear_v that_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o question_n can_v be_v no_o other_o than_o that_o which_o m_n fisher_n explicate_v in_o the_o conference_n viz._n whether_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o all_o age_n so_o visible_a especial_o in_o the_o age_n before_o luther_n as_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_a pastor_n and_o preacher_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n and_o further_o that_o in_o case_n the_o protestant_a disputant_n shall_v undertake_v as_o he_o do_v tooto_fw-mi bold_o undertake_v the_o affirmative_a part_n say_v and_o offer_v to_o prove_v in_o general_a that_o the_o name_n of_o such_o pastor_n and_o preacher_n of_o protestant_a religion_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o good_a author_n it_o shall_v further_o be_v require_v as_o m._n fisher_n require_v of_o he_o that_o he_o shall_v actual_o name_v in_o particular_a in_o every_o several_a age_n such_o pastor_n and_o preacher_n as_o he_o think_v he_o can_v prove_v and_o defend_v to_o be_v protestant_n for_o if_o the_o question_n have_v not_o be_v thus_o understand_v it_o shall_v not_o have_v be_v answerable_a to_o the_o occasion_n and_o end_v above_o say_v neither_o can_v the_o protestant_a disputant_n sufficient_o 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cyte_v these_o few_o testimony_n for_o their_o sake_n who_o have_v not_o commodity_n to_o see_v that_o book_n first_o therefore_o 1525._o luther_n himself_o say_v we_o dare_v boast_v that_o christ_n be_v first_o publish_v by_o us._n wherefore_o the_o latheran_n finé_fw-fr conradus_n schushelburg_n say_v it_o be_v impudence_n to_o say_v that_o many_o learned_a man_n in_o germany_n and_o the_o like_a be_v of_o other_o country_n before_o luther_n do_v hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o lutheran_n gospel_n and_o another_o 137._o of_o they_o not_o only_o say_v in_o effect_n thus_o much_o but_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o argument_n if_o there_o have_v be_v right_a believer_n that_o go_v before_o luther_n in_o his_o office_n there_o have_v be_v no_o need_n of_o a_o lutheran_n reformation_n another_o say_v it_o 145._o be_v ridiculous_a to_o think_v that_o in_o the_o time_n before_o luther_n any_o have_v the_o purity_n of_o doctrine_n and_o that_o luther_n shall_v receive_v it_o from_o they_o &_o 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vocation_n of_o the_o churchman_n be_v no_o where_o extant_a and_o consequent_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v at_o that_o time_n no_o visible_a church_n and_o so_o if_o any_o church_n at_o all_o it_o be_v only_o invisible_a as_o be_v affirm_v even_o by_o our_o own_o english_a protestant_n divine_v namely_o m._n 42._o jewel_n who_o say_v the_o truth_n be_v unknown_a and_o unheard_a of_o when_o martin_n luther_n and_o vldericke_n zuinglius_fw-la first_fw-mi come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n and_o m._n perkins_n creed_n who_o say_v we_o say_v that_o before_o the_o day_n of_o luther_n for_o the_o space_n of_o many_o hundred_o year_n a_o universal_a apostasy_n overspread_v the_o whole_a face_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o that_o our_o protestant_n church_n be_v not_o visible_a to_o the_o world_n i_o may_v add_v many_o more_o religion_n testimony_n of_o other_o who_o either_o in_o express_a term_n or_o in_o effect_n affirm_v the_o protestant_a church_n to_o have_v be_v in_o many_o age_n before_o luther_n latent_fw-la and_o altogether_o invisible_a which_o indeed_o be_v the_o common_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n at_o their_o first_o upryse_v who_o on_o the_o one_o side_n think_v they_o can_v with_o shift_n good_o answer_v place_n of_o scripture_n which_o make_v often_o and_o honourable_a mention_n of_o the_o church_n than_o they_o can_v answer_v the_o evidence_n of_o history_n and_o of_o their_o own_o experience_n show_v that_o no_o visible_a protestant_n be_v extant_a before_o themselves_o but_o now_o of_o late_a diverse_a plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n have_v be_v produce_v and_o such_o evident_a reason_n deduce_v out_o of_o they_o prove_v inevitable_o that_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n of_o which_o all_o sort_n must_v learn_v infallible_a say_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n must_v needs_o be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n as_o to_o omit_v other_o

be_v these_o my_o spirit_n which_o be_v in_o thou_o and_o my_o word_n which_o i_o have_v put_v in_o thy_o mouth_n shall_v not_o depart_v out_o of_o thy_o mouth_n nor_o out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o 21._o thy_o seed_n nor_o out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o thy_o seed_n seed_n from_o henceforth_o for_o ever_o again_o their_o seed_n shall_v be_v know_v in_o nation_n 9_o and_o their_o branch_n among_o people_n all_o that_o see_v they_o shall_v know_v they_o that_o these_o be_v the_o seed_n which_o our_o lord_n have_v bless_v again_o thy_o gate_n shall_v be_v open_v continual_o day_n and_o night_n 11_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v shut_v that_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o nation_n and_o their_o king_n may_v enter_v into_o thou_o for_o the_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n which_o 14_o shall_v not_o serve_v thou_o shall_v perish_v you_o be_v the_o light_n of_o the_o world_n a_o city_n build_v upon_o a_o hill_n can_v be_v hide_v tell_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n he_o that_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o 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and_o such_o as_o if_o it_o be_v good_a may_v serve_v any_o other_o sect_n of_o ancient_a or_o present_a heretic_n as_o well_o as_o our_o modern_a protestant_n if_o they_o will_v pretend_v to_o have_v have_v a_o continual_a visible_a church_n of_o their_o profession_n but_o alas_o who_o see_v not_o that_o these_o be_v mere_a imaginary_a chimera_n or_o dream_n for_o if_o any_o such_o people_n have_v be_v practise_v especial_o rite_n of_o their_o religion_n though_o never_o so_o secret_o they_o can_v not_o even_o with_o a_o gyges_n ring_n have_v pass_v unseen_a but_o either_o with_o their_o positive_a profession_n of_o their_o own_o doctrine_n which_o in_o some_o case_n oblige_v all_o true_a believer_n or_o at_o least_o with_o negative_a profession_n of_o faith_n by_o which_o all_o faithful_a man_n and_o at_o all_o time_n be_v oblige_v never_o to_o make_v show_n and_o profession_n of_o a_o contrary_a religion_n they_o or_o some_o of_o they_o can_v not_o choose_v but_o to_o have_v be_v 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ear_n of_o their_o predecessor_n or_o read_v in_o book_n to_o have_v be_v do_v to_o such_o person_n as_o profess_v such_o a_o religion_n or_o to_o have_v be_v do_v to_o such_o book_n in_o which_o mention_n be_v make_v of_o such_o persecution_n make_v against_o professor_n of_o that_o religion_n to_o say_v therefore_o that_o such_o person_n be_v and_o yet_o no_o record_n in_o any_o book_n or_o other_o memory_n of_o they_o or_o that_o once_o such_o record_n be_v but_o after_o be_v by_o the_o pope_n raze_v or_o burn_v and_o yet_o no_o mention_n make_v in_o any_o book_n or_o other_o monument_n that_o such_o raze_n or_o burn_v of_o book_n be_v by_o such_o a_o pope_n at_o such_o a_o time_n &c._n &c._n as_o we_o can_v yet_o out_o of_o good_a record_n tell_v the_o book_n burn_v by_o dioclesian_n the_o grandee_n persecutor_n of_o christian_n to_o say_v i_o say_v this_o be_v senseless_a and_o plain_o show_v that_o these_o man_n who_o seek_v to_o avoid_v the_o scylla_n of_o a_o invisible_a 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apostle_n of_o the_o reform_a doctrine_n and_o this_o so_o certain_o that_o they_o do_v account_v it_o impudence_n and_o ridiculous_a to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v other_o visible_a protestant_n in_o germany_n before_o luther_n that_o they_o prove_v by_o argument_n this_o to_o be_v impossible_a that_o they_o acknowledge_v themselves_o in_o this_o lutheran_n reformation_n to_o have_v depart_v from_o all_o the_o world_n that_o at_o luther_n and_o caluin_n come_v no_o ordinary_a vocation_n of_o churchman_n without_o which_o the_o visible_a church_n can_v be_v be_v extant_a in_o any_o place_n that_o the_o church_n both_o then_o and_o for_o many_o hundred_o year_n before_o be_v whole_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a be_v it_o possible_a i_o say_v that_o all_o this_o shall_v be_v confess_v by_o the_o primitive_a parent_n and_o prime_a doctor_n of_o protestancy_n and_o that_o now_o their_o profess_a child_n &_o scholar_n and_o in_o respect_n of_o they_o puny_n in_o protestant_a divinity_n dare_v be_v so_o bold_a as_o d._n feat_o be_v in_o the_o late_a conference_n to_o control_v and_o contradict_v those_o his_o grand_a master_n in_o not_o only_o affirm_v but_o offer_v to_o prove_v by_o a_o syllogism_n and_o by_o a_o demonstration_n à_fw-la priori_fw-la that_o the_o protestant_a church_n have_v be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a and_o o_o wonder_n so_o visible_a as_o the_o name_n of_o the_o particular_a man_n may_v be_v show_v in_o all_o age_n out_o of_o good_a author_n and_o further_o offer_v to_o second_v this_o syllogism_n by_o a_o full_a induction_n in_o which_o he_o undertake_v actual_o to_o set_v down_o their_o particular_a name_n in_o every_o several_a age_n sure_o the_o aforesaid_a protestant_n if_o they_o have_v be_v present_a will_v have_v wonder_v to_o see_v such_o boldness_n and_o will_v have_v censure_v this_o attempt_n to_o

the_o name_n of_o their_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o better_a method_n can_v be_v prescribe_v for_o a_o easy_a speedy_a &_o certain_a resolution_n of_o the_o question_n &_o sound_a satisfaction_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n that_o shall_v desire_v to_o be_v resolve_v in_o this_o most_o necessary_a and_o important_a question_n then_o that_o which_o m._n fisher_n prescribe_v in_o his_o second_o paper_n write_v before_o the_o conference_n in_o which_o he_o require_v his_o adversary_n 1._o to_o set_v down_o name_n in_o all_o age_n of_o man_n which_o they_o think_v to_o be_v protestant_n 2._o to_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n by_o some_o doctrine_n of_o they_o different_a from_o the_o roman_a that_o they_o be_v protestant_n 3._o to_o defend_v they_o to_o be_v protestant_n show_v that_o they_o do_v not_o differ_v in_o faith_n one_o from_o another_o nor_o condemn_v any_o of_o the_o 39_o article_n unto_o with_o all_o english_a protestant_n minister_n be_v swear_v in_o regard_n otherwise_o they_o can_v be_v all_o of_o one_o protestant_a church_n i_o do_v not_o i_o say_v see_v what_o fit_a method_n can_v be_v prescribe_v for_o clear_n the_o afore_o say_a question_n of_o such_o visibility_n as_o be_v require_v and_o presuposed_a to_o be_v in_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n then_o by_o actual_a name_n prove_v and_o defend_v as_o be_v above_o say_v for_o only_o to_o say_v there_o be_v or_o to_o oft_o by_o argument_n exceed_v the_o capacity_n of_o the_o common_a sort_n of_o auditor_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v man_n in_o all_o age_n profess_v protestancy_n so_o visible_a as_o that_o their_o name_n may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n be_v no_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n when_o especial_o one_o be_v urge_v actual_o to_o show_v these_o name_n he_o will_v not_o show_v actual_o any_o name_n but_o of_o one_o or_o two_o age_n and_o such_o name_n as_o the_o roman_a catholik_o his_o adversary_n 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