be suche doltes and so depriued of common sense that we vnderstand not to what ende the fauour shewed to an Anabaptist an Eluidian or anye other heretike for the crueltie practised on the catholike tendeth Argueth it not to the worlde that you seke rather meanes politikely for the tyme to staye them then vtterly for euer to represse them Well thus muche off youre priuate dissensions and lurking heresies whereof one of late in spite of all polycie sustening Verons heresie touching praedestination to abyde no longre burst oute hathe the blaste off common fame blowen ouer to vs. What other priuey store of opinions and seuerall doctrines maye be founde emonge you they knowe best that best are acquainted with you We as we can not knowe all so we can not reporte all This that hathe bene brought is sufficient to proue yowe M. Nowell a lowde lyer vntill you shewe the like to haue bene emongest vs before your heresies began The whiche because yow dispaired to be euer able to doe for yow confesse hereafter that there was at that time a coloured kinde off quietnesse emongest vs fol. 56. b. Yow bethought yow off a better councell that is to saye that emongest the Apostles of Christe the learned fathers of the councell off Nice and other off no lesse fame in Christes churche there haue bene also schismes and sectes You re wordes are these And though there were not a perfecte consent of all men in all pointes what merueile yeat were it if that shoulde happen emongest Nowell vs which was not alltogether lacking emongest the Apostles themselues c. This impudent and blasphemouse shifte you haue borowed Dorman of your Apologie the Apologie of Iohn Caluin he of that greate Lombard the diuell him selfe But here I beseche Staphilus in Epist ad Episcop Eystetēsen the considre with me good reader what either a miserable and detestable religiō is this either elles what weake but shamelesse patrones hathe it founde when suche faultes as be noted therein can no otherwise be excused but by sclaundring moste wickedly the learned doctours of the churche the generall councelles of the same yea the moste blessed and gloriouse apostles them selues Tell these newe gospellers that whereas the churche of Christe is Matth. 5. a citie builded vpon the toppe of a hill a candell set in the house to giue light to all that be in it a kingdome that reacheth from sea to sea and from the East to the west that Lucae 11. Psalm 71. their churche that they boast of is a secrete scattred congregation vnknowen to all the worlde and to them selues toe yow shall haue a peuishe proctour steppe furthe and answere as M. Nowell dyd before we take this obiection as Supra fol. 39. a. 32. no reproche being common to oure congregation with the primitiue churche of oure sauiour Christe and his holie apostles specially in the time of persecution Charge them as I doe here with schismes and you haue hearde the answere thereto allready The reporter whereof and as manie as before haue vsed this and like defences I can resemble to no worldly thing better then to a filthy and beastly sowe who being fowle and bemired her selfe neuer careth to be cleane but fodeth on still in the durte beraieng all thinges that she meeteth or rubbeth her selfe vpon as these schismaticall proctours doe not caring so muche to purge them selues as to laie their filthe vpon other that be cleane and to make them tomble and walowe in the mire as they doe Now to this blasphemouse shift because it is in the confutation of In the 3. parte fol. 136. and seq the Apologie so learnedly answered I will saie no more but that it is moste directly repugnant to the holie scriptures which beare witnesse that credentiū erat cor vnū anima vna Those which beleued at the first preaching of the Act. 4. Apostles were of one harte and of one minde It tendeth The Apostles varied dot in doctrine openly to the defacing of that marcke which Christe as of all other the moste certeine and suer to discerne those whiche are his gaue to his disciples when commending peace and vnitie he tolde them In hoc cognoscent omnes quia mei Ioan. 13. discipuli estis si diligatis inuicem In this marcke shall all men knowe that you are my disciples if you loue together M. Nowell chargeth the Apostles as the heathen philosophers dyd that finally it commeth from the ethnike and heathen spirite of certeine vaine philosophers as witnesseth the learned father Cirillus the B. of Alexandria who made in his time this verie obiection that M. Nowell nowe dothe Th◠Lib. 1. contra lulianū which place maie it please the learned reader to viewe and there shall he finde that this good bishop was so assured off that perfecte agrement of the Apostles that he was not afearde to make the offer to those vaine philosophers that so reasoned with him as M. Nowell dothe with me to leaue to defende them anie farder in case they coulde proue anie disagrement emongest them in doctrine Nowe that yow haue done with the Apostles yow come to the fathers and doctours of Christes churche of whome yow saye What wondre if that were emongest vs touching some pointes Nowell that was not wanting in the primitiue churche emongest the olde fathers Let the variance emongest the bishoppes assembled at Nicene councell let the contention betwene the bishoppes of the east and west churche about the keping of Easter daye * Beholde an arrogant spirite taking vpon him to iudge and reprehende the most vertuouse and learned bishoppes of the East and west churche Dorman a matter not worthy of suche variance be a witnesse thereof This vaine obiection borowed also of youre Apologie as is allmost alltogether what so euer yow haue here patched vp in fiue leaues concerning this matter of schismes is in the answere therto made abundantly satisfied Thither I referre the good reader where as thow maiest finde that some of these controuersies here mentioned by M. Nowell were of matters indifferent and not determined by the churche other some not of doctrine or religion but off priuate quarelles as happened emongest the fathers in the councell of Nice finally some suche as be schismes if they be schismes at all in logike not in diuinitie or matters off faithe so in matters of weight arrested vpon by the determination of the churche such striffes can not be named neither by this schismaticall proctour neither yeat by anye other So greate cause we haue to giue thankes to allmightie God the preseruer of his churche who hathe so mightely defended the same that when schismatikes and heretikes haue done all that they can for the better cloking of their dissension to proue the like in the fathers and learned doctours that haue gone before they being not able with all that malice can deuise or falsehode
sprong vp euen with youre first maister and his scholers as youre selues can not denie and departe from Christes knowen churche or elles Christe had no churche at all as those disciples off Christe that you speake off did With whom youre resemblaunce is so muche the greater because that as these first heretikes departed from the church Christe and his Apostles because they would not beleue in Christes doctrine of the blessed sacrament so haue you parted a greate nombre of yow from vs for the same cause and mainteine the same heresie as S. Augustine In psalm 54. calleth it Nowe as it were no good reason to proue vs schismatikes because yow are parted from vs being onoe as yow can not denye of vs so can no man iustly charge Christe and his Apostles with that crime because his disciples parted from him And as I answere to this so doe I to youre other obiections of the schismatikes in S. Paules time of those other also of the Nicolaites the Simonians Cerinthians c. who all parting from the knowen churche of Christe ought not to preiudicate the same For their departure was alwaies so sensible that the true christian might saye with S. Iohn They haue departed from emongest Ioan. 1. cap. 2. vs but they were none of vs. The Apostles and their companye remained alwaies a visible and knowen churche So that these examples can nothing helpe to couer your schismaticall sores whereas in Christe and the Apostles them selues there was neuer anye breache of vnitie whiche yow shoulde haue proued lykewyse therby to excuse your first Christ and his Apostles Whereas an other plea of youres is that emongest the high priestes and Phariseis there was no dissention but greate vnity and concorde emongest them against Christes Apostles to that I saye that although they agreed in this all to persecute the Apostles yeat emongest them selues they were Ioseph lib. Antiq. Iudaie 13. cap. 8. diuided into sectes and schismes some being called Phariseis other some Sadduces and yeat a thirde secte called Esseni so that they resemble more liuely yow protestantes then vs catholikes agreing as the Phariseis did against the truthe and diuided also with them into sectes emongest youreselues If you departed from vs as Christ and the Apostles you saie did from the high priestes and their churche then should you be at vnitie and concorde emoÌ„gest your selues as the Apostles were then must you shewe out of the scripture the fall of the churche of Christe the corruption of Esaiae 6â— the same and the restitution in the latter daies to come all Esaiae 66. Hierem. 6. Ezech. 44 Habacuc 2. Act. 7. 13. 28. foreprophecied in the lawe as the Apostles proued oute of the scripture the fall of the Sinagoge the corruption of the high priestes the comming of Messias the placing of the newe lawe that shoulde continue When yowe can proue this and defeate Christes promise made of his churche to be visible and vniuersall ouer all the worlde and to his churche to continue for euer then call vs phariseis hardely Matth. 16. and spare not calle youre selues Christe and his apostles we giue yow leaue For furder excuse of your schismes and diuisions yow fo 56. b. 1. tell vs of the troubles that rose in Iurie and shortly after ouer all the world vpoÌ„ the preaching of Christes gospell c. If diuisions and troubles were then it is not to be merueiled at oure sauiour him selfe saing of him selfe non veni pacem Matth. 10. mittere sed gladium I come not to sende peace but a sworde But oure age is not nowe M. Nowell the primitiue churche oure faithe is not nowe to be begonne of newe It hathe bene with consent of all the worlde established these 12. hundred yeares And therefore youre comparison is lewde and vntrue Yow saie furder And as iustly might yow charge the Apostles and their doctrine Nowell with those schismes sectes and troubles as yow do charge vs with those that haue risen in oure dayes Euer yow harpe vpon that string that yow woulde be Dorman like the apostles which when yow can proue that Christ promised to builde an other churche beside that whereof he made Peter the heade and that frier Martine Luther shoulde be the seconde Messias and Zuinglius or Carolstadius the heade therof then we will easely graunte to you But note againe I praie yow M. Nowell the difference of the schismes arising in the Apostles time and of youre schismes arising in our time The Apostles were not at diuision emongest them selues yow are The Apostles were before those schismes yowe haue risen together with the schismes Those schismes departed out from the Apostles your schismes are within youre selues Againe see the agrement of those schismes with youres and confer the case of the state of the churche nowe with that of the primitiue churche then Those schismes and sectes departed out off the primitiue churche euen so haue yow departed nowe oute of the same churche being of longre continuance They being departed multiplied into mo schismes and parted into farder diuision yow being departed multiply daily from schisme to schisme and newe sectes haue risen sence youre departure from Martin Luther They troubled and disquieted the primitiue church of the Apostles yow trouble and disquiet the catholike churche that nowe is If you demaunde the prouffe of this which I saie answer the booke which I am suer yow will neuer be hable to answere lately set furthe in oure tongue moste truly called The forteresse of the faithe c. And shewe vs as you will stande to it hereafter when the faith and light of goddes holy word which yow saie hathe nowe of late sprong againe was extinguished where and by whome Where it is well knowen to the worlde that oure learned men Nowell haue by their writinges more oppugned and repressed the saide sectes then all the papistes haue done This is that whiche I saide before that yow in dede Dorman wright diligently one against an other which is a moste euident assurance of youre dissention in doctrine And if these youre writinges were in the vulgare tongues to be reade of all men there woulde be no better argument in the worlde to disgrace youre doctrine for euer Whereas yow compare your diligence in writing with that of the catholikes if the late writinges of learned catholikes of all countries especially of Germanie it selfe were in dede compared to youres it shoulde appeare howe false and vntrue this is In dede we must nedes confesse a truthe that whilest we all remained Nowell vnder this quiet obedience of youre Romishe heade in one doctrine of his traditions there was a coloured kinde of quiâ—tnesse c. Foelix necessitas quae cogit ad meliora Happye is the Dorman necessitie whiche forceth to the better Here M. Nowell correcting him selfe for that before he charged vs so heynously withe schismes and sectes wyll somewhat
of youres to Dorman this place borowed of Ruffians and ribauldes not of any that haue either learning or witte is most farre from the auctours meaning whiche as anie that vieweth the place will easely perceiue so is it in Eusebius from whome Nicephorus toke it moste euident euen at the eye For Eusebius hath that Nouatus made them sweare per ea quae vnusquisque tenebat in manibus by those thinges which euery one Lib. 6. cap. 34. of them helde in his handes but they sware by the bodye and bloud of Christe saieth Nicephorus ergo they had the bodie and bloud of Christe in their handes Well although you doubted whether youre stamping staring and swearing alehouse solution shoulde finde with all men suche credite that they woulde by and by beleue yow yeat of this you doubted nothing to make some men at the least beleue that the doctrine of transsubstantiation Fol. 8 a. 4. were by this place quite ouerthrowen and withall to set furth youre selues to the worlde as the verie folowers of the primitiue churche in deliuering the sacrament into the receiuers handes But this ioy if you conceiued anie hereof you are like to enioy but a while M. Nowell For both Eusebius and Nicephorus calling here the sacrament by the name of bread are to be vnderstand to haue folowed therin the phrase of scripture which either so calleth it as did S. Paule because a littell before it so was as Moises rod being 1. Cor. 11. turned in to a serpent was in scripture called notwithstanding Exod. 7. a rod and saide by the name of a rodde to haue deuoured the roddes of the enchauntors which were also serpentes or as oure sauioure him selfe did not meaning by this worde bread the substance of materiall bread but the true bread of life Ioan. 6. Whereas you saye oute off Nicephorus that they Fol. 8. b 5. tasted that which they receiued and expound it thus that is to saye bread that is youre owne blinde glose and is not in the text If you woulde nedes playe the expositour yow should haue referred that tasting of theirs to the bodye and bloude of Christ which he made them sweare by and which went next in the sentence before So shoulde yow haue done the part of a true interpretour and haue made Nicephorus agree with the auncient fathers of Christes churche and namelie to omitt Tertullian Chrisostome and diuerse other with Cirillus the B. of Alexandria who saith of this matter quomodo Lib. 4. in Ioan ca. 14 non viuemus qui carnem illam gustamus manducamus How can it be that we shoulde not liue who doe both taste and eate that fleshe But what speake I of making him to agree with other when by this meanes you shoulde haue made him to agree with him selfe who in other places for that which he calleth here simply bread ioining thereunto an epithetoÌ„ calleth it vitalis panis liuely bread And whereas Lib. 1. cap. 30. yow would haue him to saye that in this place the communicantes held breade in their haÌ„des and tasted breade in rehearsing the oration which S. Ambrose made to Theodosius the emperour minding to entre in to the churche of Milain bringeth in S. Ambrose emongest other thinges speaking after this sorte Quomodo manus extolles quae caede Lib. 12. cap. 41. iniqua diffluunt Quomodo in eis diuinuÌ„ etiam corpus excipies Quomodo sanguineÌ„ praetiosum ad os afferes per quod ira transuersim actus tantuÌ„ effudisti sanguinis that is How wilt thow lift vp thy handes which flow with wicked murdre yea how wilt thow receiue in them the diuine body How wilt thow bring to thy mouthe the pretiouse blood by the which being caried away with angre thow hast spilt so muche bloud B. 15. S. Austen calleth the sacrament of Chrâ—stes bodie and bloude the sacrament of the altar I made no lye neither yeat dissembled the truthe or cloked the matter as yow charge me vntruly by calling this heauenly and liuely bread the blessed sacrameÌ„t of the altar with the which worde if yow be offended yow maye chalenge S. Austen for his worde it is and not mine It is yow M. Nowell that haue muche daungered youre honestie by falsifieng this place of Nicephorus For where he hath Cum Lib. 10. de Ciuit dei cap. 6. oblationes offerret qui mos sacerdotibus est when he offered the oblations as the maner of priestes is yow adde to the text this worde his and saye when he made his oblations Which The place of Nicephorus falsified worde of youres so conueighed in is such a spiteful worde as destroieth the whole minde of the auctor For whereas we defende the consecration of Christes bodye and bloude of which name yow are ashamed as appeareth by youre ConsecratioÌ„ as they terme it although S. Austen so affirmed the same against Manicheus the heretike that he saieth plainely iff Lib. 20. cap. 13. the bread and chalice be not consecrate it is foode for refection but not a sacrament of religion whereas we I saye defende such consecration to be an oblation and sacrifice when yow sawe the wordes of Nicephorus to meane the publike oblations of the whole churche which are the bodye and bloude of Christe yow thought that sense to be litle for youre aduantage and therfore it semed good counsell to shift in the worde his to the intent it might be thought that Nouatus had offred somewhat of his owne priuate deuotion Let the worlde nowe iudge M. Nowell whether this be true dealing or no. As for youre bragging how yow folow the vsage of the primitiue churche by giuing the sacrament into their handes who receiue it I aske yow this question grounding the Ad Ianuar epist 118. same vpon S. Austen why yow wrangle more aboute the giuing the sacrament in to the receiuers handes because they so toke it in the primitiue churche then yowe doe about the receiuing it fasting which Christ and his apostles did not If that be altered which Christ and his apostles did for the more honour of this greate sacrament why might not for the same reason or for some other as greate or greater the other manner of receiuing it into the handes be abolished also and taken awaye and yow counted schismatikes for breaking the peace of the church Why cause yow not yong babes to communicate againe as once they did in the primitiue churche and then make youre bragges thereof to that yow kepe the vsage of the primitiue churche Now that yow haue discoursed learnedly as yow thinke Fo. 9. a. 3. vpon the place of Nicephorus with charging me off mingling impertinent thinges by the waye c. Whereas he that hath but halfe an eye maye see that without I woulde haue out of halfe the sentence I coulde doe no otherwise then I did Which if I had yow woulde not belike neither haue
8. cause in the conclusion of my firste boke Reade the discourse annexed vnto the Apologie of Staphilus latelie set forthe in English Reade the fortresse You shall The first parte the last chap. finde there a numbre of your assertions holden generallie of al protestantes to be olde condemned heresies in the first six hundred yeares you shall finde that the doctrine of Iohn Caluin youre Maister bothe in the doctrine of the blessed sacrament of the altar and of baptisme is stuffed with a nombre of olde heresies condemned also in the primitiue churche Discharge youre selues first of these heresies and then saye that we saie onelie that you be heretikes We saie not onely that we be the churche but we proue it also and haue made it moste euident that you can by no meanes be the churche As of late hathe bene proued answere it when you can In some countries if the partie accused pleade not guilty and saye a. 19. Nowell naie to the crime obiected if he by diuerse tormentes enforced to confesse doe still mainteine his naye he is discharged and let goe But it can not helpe vs accused as heretikes to denie the false accusation c. I blame you not M. Nowell though for heretikes yow Dorman clayme the fauour that is wont to be shewed to murderers theues and other malefactours allthough this reason of youres that heretikes the greatest offenders that are for no crime is so greate as the faulte of heresie shoulde haue this fauour because other malefactours lesse offending haue it woulde scarselie be founde sounde if it shoulde be by the rigorouse rules of logicke examined But it nedeth not it hath other faultes enough For allthough in some couÌ„tries the parties accused denieng the faulte in suche wise as you saye be vpon their denial discharged and let go yeat is there no countrie where if the partie accused for thefte would confesse the dede but saye it were no faulte he shoulde be be so discharged the lawes coÌ„demning theft by deathe and let go And yeat this is youre case M. Nowell For you confesse the dede You denie for example sacrifice and praier for the deade you stande in defence of it as did Aâ—rius a Epiph. lib. 3. haeresi 75. condemned heretike aboue 13. hundred yeares ago Onelie your denial is that it is no heresie which thinge if it might be laufull for euerye heretike to doe and to escape euerye one giuing to heresie the title of true doctrine howé manye thinke you woulde be condemned Did not Michael Seruetus put to deathe by the procurement of Iohn Caluin at Geneua denye that he was an heretike as you doe Did Caluin anye wrong to him in condemning him who saide he coulde bring as good testimonie of his innocencye oute of Gods worde as you saye you can for youre heresies Did Cranmer any wrong to Ioane of kent because she saide she was no heretike Doe not the Anabaptistes dailye saye the same It is toe greate an absurditye M. Nowell and sauoreth of your cholere ouer much that while you labour to bring the catholikes in hatred as though they showed you lesse fauour then they doe to theeues murderers and other offendours you forget that in so doing you shewe youre selfe M. Nowell playeth the proctour for all heretikes a proctour for heretikes of all sortes and that yeat you misse of your purpose the fauour of the lawes extended to heretikes being greater then is practised vppon anie other trangressours For make the coÌ„parison aright and you shal make it betwene a theefe sorie for his theft or murderer for his offence and an heretike denieng and repenting his heresies Nowe who knoweth not in this case who hathe the greatest fauour the heretike vppon repentaunce being receiued to mercy whiche fauoure other offendours haue not To make suche false and vntrue comparisons as you doe if it procede not of ignoraunce M. Nowell surelye it commeth of malice and that is worse Where you saye A lye 64. b. 6. that I deuise God to be absent that I saye that he is dombe I saide not so Why doe you falsely burden me with that whiche I neuer thought I sayde that he is In my boke fo 9. b not present with vs in suche sorte as that we maye see him and speake with him face to face to be resolued at his mouthe of suche doubtes and questions as shoulde rise emongeste vs. Saie not you the same Doe you call him then dombe or saye that he is absent If you doe not why I more then you Nowell fol. 71. a. vnto fol. 74. a. 26. in which compasse the testimonies brought to proue that only Scripture is sufficieÌ„t to determine all coÌ„trouersies are examined Dorman S. * Depecca merit libr. 1. cap. 22. Ad Cresc lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. Augustine contending againste those who doe attribute Goddes grace and giftes to the the worthynesse of mennes merites concludeth thus Cedamus consentiamus auctoritati Scripturae sanctae quae nescit falli nec fallere Let vs giue place to the auctoritye of holy Scripture which can not be deceiued nor deceiue We saye with S. Austen Let vs giue place and agree to the auctoritie of the holy Scripture which can not be deceiued nor deceiue Will not two heires striuing aboute their fathers good des saie as muche as this commeth to of his testament desire that it maie be brought furthe and both of them offer to be tried by it and to stande to it and yeat the wordes being doubtefull require a iudge notwithstanding S. Augustine preferreth the Sriptures before the priuate opinion off Saint Cyprian So doe we toe and before anye other doctour disagreing from the scripture expounded to vs in generall councelles and by common consent of all nations Howe farre this sense whiche you woulde wrest out of Saint Augustins wordes that the church maie not be iudge of the true meaning of the scripture Contra epist fundament Manicheor cap. 5. is from the mynde of S. Augustine his wordes in an other place doe well witnes where he protesteth that he woulde not beleue the Ghospell if the auctoritye of the churche did not moue him thereto How often beside doth Lib. 2. contra Iulian. alibi he in writing against Iulian the Pelagian obiect to him the doctours of the church expounding the scriptures againste his opinion As for that whiche you bring oute of Saint Augustine against councelles it is falselye and vntrulye applyed For b. 10. Lib. contra MaximinuÌ„ 3. cap. 14. Saint Augustins yealding to the aduersaries whome he sawe frowardly bent to stande to the hereticall councell off Ariminum dothe no more proue him to be of the mynde to eneruate and weaken thereby the auctoritye of generall councelles then if I woulde saie to you disputing with you vpon the reall presence of Christe in the sacrament and knowing that you were as wholly bent to mainteine the Confession of Augspurg
this is a frowarde heretike might denie S. Paules epistles to the Corinthiās especiallie the Latter in the which the case so requiring he glorieth so farre that him selfe confesseth that he hath played the foole 2. Corinth cap. 11. 1◠compelled thereto by them Ywisse S. Paule was as much subiect to persecution and deathe as anie of the popes that you haue named He had as litle lust or leisour to occupie his heade or pen about the setting furthe of him selfe to boaste of his apostleship to tel of his reuelations as anie of them But necessitie compelling bothe him and them to stande vpon their auctoritie it was expedient that they shoulde earnestlie set furthe the same The epistles that you speake of here to haue bene forged were gathered together aboue nine hundred yeares past by one Isidorus archebisshop of Hispalis in Spaine so that when you come to proue this matter those popes of these latter nine hundred yeares you see how they be discharged Now M. Nowell if you thinke that you haue walcked long inough out of the waye we will returne thither from whence we departed to the. 53. Leafe of youre booke The which because as the reader maye see it conteineth nothing but very matter of bragges not worthy to be answered I steppe ouer Ofschismes and sectes wherewith M. Nowell burdeneth the Catholikes The 17. Chapitre HERE M. Nowell by occasion of a fewe lines but such Nowell fol. 54. a. belike as touched him to the quicke and made him to wynse discourseth in manie leaues in defence of schismes and sectes This note of mine whereby I admonished the reader for better credite to be giuen hereafter to the auncient fathers Cypriā and Hierom who telling vs that the not obeing of one chiefe heade in one seuerall diocesse is the cause of schismes and heresies saye withall allthough not in expresse wordes asmuche by force of greater reason vnlesse there be one suche heade acknowledged and obeied in the vniforme gouernement of the whole churche to haue an eye to the present schismes whiche haue burst in vpon vs in oure countrie in stede of one commō receiued truthe in the daies of oure fathers this note I saie so graueled M. Nowell rubbing him on the verie heade of that festred boile of his poisoned heresie that he coulde finde no grounde to stande vpon but nedes must he fling out and laie about him as a man halfe wood and beside himselfe sparing none not the blessed Apostles them selues He beginneth this pastime after his accustomed maner with this Lewde lye It is well knowen that there is as muche consent in true doctrine Nowell A facing lye 44. in the churche of Englande at this time as euer was in anie realme at anie time What a face thinke you hath this man or hath he anie Dorman face or forheade at all I will not trouble him with forein realmes shewing him what consent in true doctrine there is presently in manie Catholike countries nor I will not appeale to all the former ages that haue passed I will only put him in remembraunce of the consent in true doctrine in oure owne countrie fifty yeares ago Can you saye M. Nowel for with you I loue gladliest to talcke that there was then anie dissention in doctrine at all Can yow recken vs vp anie diuersitie of opinions touching beliefe in all the realme of England at that time Will you saie they had no true doctrine at all and therfore no consent in true doctrine If you saie so then name vs a time when there was euer true doctrine in Englande that suche a time being knowen it maie be proued vnto you that there were no suche sectes and schismes then as rage emongest you nowe Note vnto vs the yeare and religion vsed at any tyme since oure realme was firste christened when yow write nexte that we maye aske you whether at that tyme Caūtorbury Rochester Glocestre were of one opiniō cōcerning the presence of Christes most blessed body bloude in the sacramēt and Londō Winchester and Dirham of a cleane contrary as they are nowe that occupye these roomes Who hathe not hearde of a sermon latelye preached before the Queenes maiestye in the defence of the reall presence and the preacher called of his brethern for his labour an asse in a Rochet the Sermon it selfe by a mightye Samson shortly after as it semed confuted Is this a consent in true doctrine M. Nowell Haue you not hearde off these Sermones Or if you hearde them did you nodde there while and beare so litle awaye that you haue cleane forgotten the whole matter telling vs nowe scarse oute of youre sleepe that you haue as muche consent in true doctrine as euer was in anye realme at anye tyme How many of youre brethern be of Verons minde touching predestination Let M. Moulins the vsurper of the Archedeaconry of London youre neighbour tell you M. Nowell why he did excommunicate M. Thomas Walbot a ministre in London Let the saide Walbot instructe you who they are that in his learned supplication to M. Doctour Parker he calleth Florinitians Tell vs M. Nowell whereof it procedeth that three of the moste graue modeste and learned emongest yow men to saye the truthe in all respectes heresye set a parte worthy to beare the office off M. D. Parker M. Cheyny M. Gest true bishoppes in Christes churche are of their subiectes so contemptuouslye set at naught whereof I saye it procedeth that one is called Matthewe meale mouthe a Lince wolsy bishoppe c. that the other hathe Moyer the ministre of Wootton vnder headge borne out against him the thirde termed an Asse but of this that there be schismes and sectes emongest you Are you ignoraunt M. Nowell what cōmunion M. Whittingham celebrated at Duresme not onely against the mynde of his bishoppe but the ordre appointed also by the communion booke Neuer hearde you what a singuler and straunge maner off baptisme he deuised and ministred at Duresme Is al this in your eye consent in true doctrine when you agree not emongest youre selues neither in the substance of the chiefest Sacramentes neither in the maner of their ministration Are we ignoraunt thinke you of the Anabaptistes Arrians Eluidians and whole swarmes of these and other heretikes that lye smoothering in corners looking for the ioyfull tyme of their deliueraunce in to the world and broade light as you and youre felowes did 30. yeares ago Are we ignoraunt thereoff because when some of them sturring before their tyme are brought before youre bishoppes they are with good wordes of greate policie dismissed with exhortation to them to lyue lyke quiet subiectes c. Lest suche hastie and vntimely teeming might be not onely the vtter ruine and ouerthrowe of all those heresyes that hauing nowe continued almost twentie yeares begin to growe to mannes state but of so muche faire issue allso as that cursed moother is lyke to bring furthe hereafter Iudge you vs to
mitigate that cruell sentence off his and therefore he muste he saieth nedes confesse that there was when we lyued vnder the obedience off the pope a coloured kynde off quietnesse emongest vs. Surelye I am sorye M. Nowell that we can not saye as muche off yow that we can fynde no tyme when emongest yowe there was so muche as anye shadowe off coloured quietnesse But doe yow remembre withe what schismes and sectes yow charged vs before The Thomistes and Scotistes the Nominalles and Realles met they not daily at the scooles The Benedictines Cistertians Carmelites c. kept they their names so priuey that they were knowen to no man Their habite in some whit in other blacke c. were men so blinde they coulde not see Their diuerse diet their shauing going becking bowing c. were they thinges so priuilie vsed that no man knewe of them If these thinges were knowen to all men as they were how saie you that there was a coloured kinde of quietnesse emongest vs when the greatest and all the schismes and sectes that you coulde falsely charge vs withall were so farre from all colour that M. No. well writeth contraries they were manifest and open to the eyes of all men And thus are you manifestly contrary to your selfe saing here that we had emongest vs a coloured kinde of quietnes and before that lest the religiouse men whome you call sectes Fol. 114. a of Hypocrites shoulde not be knowen they studied for diuision and fled all shewe of vnitie But when that Christe the auctor of that light as he him selfe Nowell so 57. a. 7. and by his Apostles bewraied the errours of the Iuishe traditions by the saide light first springing and withall troubled their vnitie and concorde in the doctrine of suche traditions and their quietnesse in their Sinagoge so settled before so nowe the same oure sauiour in the time by his wisdome appointed c. In this place M. Nowell openeth to the worlde the secrete Dorman iudgementes of God about the restoring the truthe quite extinguished in these latter daies For proufe wherof the indifferent reader maye note that he who triumpheth so much of holie scripture and of the necessitie of prouing all thinges by the expresse lettre therof bringeth nowe no one texte or piece of texte out of the whole bible Yeat shal you see how weightie the matters are that he affirmeth First he saieth that oure Sauiour in the time by his wisedome appointed hath disclosed that the pope and his haue obscured hidden broken and forbidden the lawe of God Againe that this he hathe done by the light of his holie worde againe springing and shining to them sitting in palpable darckenes c. Nowe these pointes M. Nowell vttered by you without all warrant of scripture as they are the fundation of all youre religion so conteine they against oure Sauiour and his holie worde moste horrible blasphemies as the which importe an vtter ouerthrowe of the church and suche a terrible Eclipse and defect of light in that cleere sonne wherein the sonne of God hath pitched his beautiful tabernacle that the darckenes Psalâ— 18. you saye was palpable and coulde by no meanes be chased awaye till a lewde Apostata and ronneagate frier the worst man by the iudgement of his owne scholers that liued in his time and worst able to bridle his affections vpon malice enuie and couetousnes restored the same againe All that foloweth you builde vpon this fundation the which being naught the matter laied vpon it must nedes come downe withall And therfor it foloweth By this occasion is there risen a like schisme betwene you and Nowell vs as was betwene S. Paule and the Phariseis c. Here you heape nombre of lies together laing to oure Dorman charge that the cause why we crye and barcke you saie against you is because by this occasion of the light oure gaine is decaied oure quietnes troubled oure rest interrupted oure good cheare marred oure pompe abated We are not offendid with you for this M. Nowell The cause of oure misliking with your religion and why we call you schismatikes you dare not so muche as name which is because you separate youre selues from Christes churche because you teache contrarie to the scriptures that the churche of Christe prophecied by the prophetes promised by Christ to continue for euer hathe bene quite ouerthrowen To this because you can not answere you feine other causes at youre pleasure to bring vs into hatred Of the which faultes obiected by you to the catholikes I saye generally as S. Austen did to the Donatistes obiecting the like In his omnibus nullum crimen orbis Li. de vnit eccl cap. 2. Christiani esse ostendimus we shewe you that in al these thinges which you laye to vs there is no faulte of the whole christendome And againe ad quosdam quippe illa perimere possunt non ad vniuersum orbem christianum for those faultes maye perteine to some they can not be the faultes of al Christendome Leaue therfore M. Nowel these extrauagant excursions of railing against the euill life of some or abuses of certeine wherewith a greate parte of this idle Reproufe of youres is stuffed and come to the doctrine it selfe Proue vs your negatiue diuinitie by the rule and trial of holy Scripture by the councels and decree of the church or by the learned fathers if yow be hable It is an easie matter sayeth Saint Augustine to the Donatistes either for yow Lib. de vuit eccl cap. 5. to call vs Phariseis or for vs to cal yow so It is as easy for vs to saye that yow persecute vs the true beleuers as the Phariseis persecuted the Apostles as it is for you to saye as yow doe here that we folowe the Phariseis in persecuting yow It is as easy for vs to saye that you are lyke painted graues full of olde rotten bones within pretending outewardly Gods worde contempte of the worlde brotherlye charitye c. being within couetouse whoorders vp greate exactours of mony proude cruell with suche lyke and so call yow Phariseis as it is for yow to saye and write the same of vs. But M. Nowell though Christ as the searcher Rom. 8. and iudge of mennes hartes might boldely so pronounce of the Phariseis whome he knewe better within then other did without yeat we must not iudge other lest we be iudged oure selues as the ghospell teacheth vs. Briefly the strife Matth. 7. wil be endelesse vaine and childishe if in controuerfie of doctrine and religion suche impertinent discourses be entremingled Wisedome it had bene for yow M. Nowell to haue pricked directly at the matter of schismes discharging thereof plainely youre selues by shewing that yowe ioyne in communion with all the worlde and not to haue roued as you haue done now here nowe there at no certeine marke And so finally for this parte of purgation of oure selues against Nowell fol.
for him selfe When this question off the blessed sacrament shall be the principall matter betwene yow and me yow shall haue a cause why these wordes I am the true vine proue not so well a transsubstantiation as the other This is my body doe In the meane season where as yowe aske what a rule yowe shoulde haue had if Christe B. 1. had saide likewise This is my true and verie bodie as he saide I am a true or verie vine trulie M. Nowell no highlier should the matter haue bene taken then it is For to vs Christian men it is inough that Christe hathe once saide it is his bodie We woulde beleue an honest man vpon his worde if he shoulde tell his name and saie that he were suche a one and neuer put him to saie that he were trulie suche a one I see no cause but yowe might if it pleased yowe haue as good an opinion of Christ Who notwithstanding to stop the mouthes of suche Capernaites as yow are hathe added also the worde truly saing For my fleshe is truly or verilie meate and my bloude is verily drinke The whiche wordes Ioan. 6. Hilarius expounding saieth that there is no place left to doubte Lib. 8. de Trinit of the truthe of the fleshe and bloude of Christe seing that bothe by oure Lordes owne wordes and oure faith it is trulie fleshe and trulie bloude I saide that if because the Apostle or Christe him selfe vseth a figure in one place we must thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise by that abhominable doctrine there were no let if a man woulde be so wicked to holde that Christe were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoption onelye and bring for the maintenaunce of that wicked heresie that texte dedit eis potestatem filios dei Ioan. 1. fieri He gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God An obiection left vnanswered by M. Nowell To this yow answere nothing at all I trust it be not yow knowe the rule since yowe were prolocutor in the conuocation because qui tacet consentire videtur he that holdeth his peace semeth to consent Charitie woulde rather interprete your silence to procede of lacke of iust matter to answere and so doe I allthough yowe deale not allwaies so frindely with me What so euer I haue saide here of the controuersie of the B. 9. sacrament out of place leauing my purposed matter vnproued is yow saie verye fonde What so euer I haue saide here of the sacrament hath bene vttred vpon the occasion of Luther and Caluins disagrement who because they can not be reconciled by the scriptures that blocke laied by you in the waie that the scripture onely is the sufficient iudge to ende all controuersies rising vpon the doubtefull meaning of the lettre is remoued and so my purposed matter proued that there must be an other iudge then the scripture What haue you nowe wonne to shewe you that I am not ashamed of mine owne phrase As before I proued that the Arrians Lutherās and Caluinistes coulde by no meanes by onelie scripture be ouerthrowen so nowe I proued the same by the Anabaptistes alleaging in like maner suche places of scripture as they bring for their defence And as you answered before nothing to the obiections of the Arrians Lutherans and Caluinistes so doe you here passe ouer in silence the answere to the Anabaptistes and purge your selfe and youre companions that yow be no Arrians no Anabaptistes withe fo 103. a. 8 M. Nowell leaueth vnāswered that to whiche he should answere and answereth that that nedeth no answere Nowell the which Heresies you were neuer charged by me You take holde also of those wordes of mine where I saie that the catholikes doe represse and ouerthrowe the brutishe opinions of the Anabaptistes To the which being but wordes incidently cast in I marueile how anie man reading youre boke can forbeare laughing to heare you slipping from the principall point make this solemne answere to that which neded none at all VVe answere that it is moste certeine and well knowen to the worlde that oure men haue saide and written more against them then euer did the papists VVherefore we be therein as in all other thinges in deede the Catholikes and not they What so euer you haue written M. Nowel against them Dorman you are notable by the scripture alone to ouerthrow them whiche is the thing that being denied you ought to haue proued But by the waye note I praie the that art the learned reader a clerckly conclusion of M. Nowelles whereby he A clerckly cōclusiō made by M. Nowell proueth his companions to be the Catholikes and not vs because they haue saide and written more against the Anabaptistes then we haue done Is not this trowe you a notable argument to proue that no man is a catholike but he that hath spoken and written against heretikes nor he neither if an other haue saide and written more then he You saie that the mention that I made of the Swenckfeldians b. 8. Arrians and Anabaptistes was alltogether impertinent to my purpose I haue proued the contrarie before nowe let the learned reader iudge thereof You charge me with declaiming against the scriptures and worde of God That is a lye You call it a seely similitude and cruell likelihode A lye 79. Nowell b. 12. that I make betwene the Iuishe high prieste and the pope I maruell not that you so call it for it cutteth the throate of all youre heresies You vse often and gladly I perceiue this worde Iuishe high prieste as though you woulde therby insinuat to the simple and vnlearned that my example were naught as taken from the Iewes the very name of whome to those that haue more zeale then knowledge yow knowe to be odiouse and therfore against that meaning I warne the vnlearned that the Iewes that were then whereof this Iuishe prieste was heade were goddes church and chosen people You cal the pope and papistes heretikes and their doctrine heresies You acknowledge him not to be the supreme heade or gouernour ouer all the churche As long as you be not able to proue it it maketh no matter youre tongue is not autentike Nowe where M. Dorman woulde proue the conference of Nowell fol. 104. a. 1. scriptures a vaine or euill thing because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it and vs to be heretikes as they be because we vse the same groundes to witte conferring of scriptures together he might as well reiect all alleaging of scripture because the Diuell vsed it and conclude that we be of the diuell because we vse the same groūdes that he doth that is to say the alleaging of the scriptures Yea and he maye by the same reason ▪ finde faulte withe Christe oure Sauiour and his holy apostles who doe so muche vse the same alleaging of scriptures I go not about to proue the conference of scriptures a