this parte You aske moreouer whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie I beseeche you examine well the doctrine of the Protestants and compare it with the doctrine of Christ of the Apostles of the primitiue churche and with the religion set foorth by the godlie writers whiche wrote about the time of Constantine or shortly after And if you can proue that we doe not in al pointes agree with the religion of Christ of the apostles as it is set down in the old and new Testament Choose what translation you will or that we consent not in all thinges concerning faith and the substance of the true doctrine which the auncient fathers as appeareth in their bookes a few erroures by them mainteined onelie excepted then wee will willingly yeelde 〈◊〉 you As for example I will note a fewe capitall pointes of religion because I will not wander in generalities First we confesse with them one waye to â—e iustified and saued by which is by â—â—â— free mercies of God graunted vs by thâ— onely death passioÌ„ of Christ our onely Lord and Sauiour and that faith is the onely meanes and instrument to apprehend this our iustification and saluation That Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession that we ought â—â— pray onely vnto God not to anie Saints â—â— parted and that in the name of Christ and not in the name of anie Angell or â—â—int whatsoeuer To praye for those that be aliue and not for those which bee deade That in the Lordes Supper according to his institution we doo spirituâ—â—ly by faith feed vpon the body of Christ and that Sacrament truely and faithfully receiued as the remembraunce of the â—eath and passion of Christ is a spirituall foode and sustenaunce vnto our soules and a pledge of eternall life to satisfie our consciences We say further that Christ his naturall body fleshe blood and bone is noâ— in the Sacrament vnder the fourme of breade it being onely in heauen on the right hand of God according to the articles of our faith where in body he shall remaine vntill the day of iudgement though Christ our Sauiour as he is God in his diuine nature filleth all places and is with his children powring daily the abundance of his graces vpon them Lastly we say that man hath no free will of himselfe to doo anie good thing no not anie good thought but that it is God that worketh in vs both the will and also the deede according to his good pleasure euen of his free grace If you will either giue eare to the doctrine which we do preach or peruse the bookes which wee haue and doe write you shall see that the Protestantes did neuer vary one ynch from these pointes of true religion which I haue recited But because you make mencion of a knowne catholike Church it behoueth for that an Harlot may haue the countenaunce of an honest woman to distinguish betwixt the true church of God the counterfeit Church and to shew howe they both may be discerned and knowne Wee must needes auouch with the holy spirit of God that the true Church of Christ being the congregation and companie of the faithfull dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth is discerned and knowen by the woord of God For the true Sheepe doo heare the voice of their Pastor Christ Neither is there anie other signe or marke to knowe the Church of God sauing onely the Scriptures of God which are the treasurie of all truth For the citie of the Saintes and houshold of God as the Apostle saith is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner stone So then that is the true Catholike Church consecrated a spirituall Temple 〈◊〉 God which is guided and ruled by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Therefore the Church of God is called the Spouse of Christ for that shee ought in al â—inges to harken vnto the voyce of the â—idegroome In like manner the church â— as a piller which the Lord God hath â— in the earth amongst men therein so to little his truth that all stormes and Tempests euen the gates of hell and all the fernall powers fighting against it yet shâ— they not preuaile because shee stayeth â— selfe onely vppon the woord of God aâ— thereby stayeth others and therefore a gâ—ly father saith The piller and strength â— the Church is the Gospel and the spiâ— of lyfe Likewise Saint Agustine saâ—ther be certain books of our Lord vnâ— the authoritie whereof ech part agreeth there let vs seeke for the Church therbâ— let vs examine and try our matters An in the same Chapter I will saieth hee haue you to shew me the church not bâ— the doctrines of men but by the woorâ— of God. Saint Chrisostome saith it cannot by any means be known what is the true church but only by the scriptures â–ª what the counterfeit Church is it appereth by the promisses truely euen that Church which consisteth onely in outwarde shewe challenging authoritie ouer the woord and spirit of God prescribing a rule of woorshiping of God by her owne deuise without anie warrant of the woord of GOD which deuiseth other meanes to be saued by then onely Christ which feigneth that her faith can neuer faile notwithstanding â—â—e neuer aspired vnto the true faith of Christ but hath persecuted the same keeping the sonne of righteousnesse as vnder â—â—â—ile or cloud not suffering him to shine in simple mens mindes and hartes by his holye Scriptures which are the keyes of knowledge the very power of God to saluation to as many as beleeue If we caÌ„not vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures the fault is in vs and not in them As no man may coÌ„demne the brightnes of the sonne because his eye is not able to sustaine the clearenes therof so the hardnes of the mistery which we can not sometimes coÌ„passe or perfectly vnderstand in the scriptures ought not to take away froÌ„ vs the vse of the scriptures Now â—â—â—ing you depende much vppon the aunciâ—â—â— doctors fathers I purpose for the satisfying of the reader to knit vp this diffeâ—â—â—ce betwixt the church of God and the counterfeite Synagogue of Sathan with these woords of S. Augustine Whether they haue the church or no let theÌ„ shew â— the Canonicall bookes of the holy â—riptures we must knowe the Church of â—hrist euen as we likewise know Christ â—hich is the head of the church in the caâ—nical scriptures And what can be more â—laine then that which is spoken by the Euangelist Iohn disseuering the tâ—â—â— Church from the false the true Christiaâ— from hipocrices and the faithful ministeâ— and preachers of the Gospell from faâ— prophets and counterfeit teachers in thâ— fewe woordes Hereby shall ye knoâ— the spirit of God euery spirit which câ—fesseth that Iesus Christ is come in thâ— flesh is of
his went about continuaâ—lie preaching the Gospel the Pope is carrieâ— about vppon mens shoulders to shewe hâ— pride and he and his labour continuallie tâ— suppresse the Gospell Beholde how the Popâ— and his Prelates are in al things contrarie tâ— Christ so that it is in vaine to setle our faitâ— vpon them or to count them the catholikâ— church As for their vniuersal coÌ„sent wherof they boast so much what is it but as they them selues are blind so must al their priestâ— nedes lead a blind people in a blind way consenting together in this that they knowe nothing of God neither will learne anie thing therefore babble they al their church seruice in that tongue that they do not vnderstand least the people should heare the worde of God in their knowen tongue vnderstande it and beleeue it Thus are they like a sort of blind men who may easilie consent together that they see nothing And I would to God that they would confesse that they see nothing for then their sinne were pardonable but nowe they say they see with the old Pharisees therefore their sinne remaineth The Papistes consent wee graunt but against the trueth not in the trueth They consent â— the Iewes and Turkes consent to walke the blindenesse of their owne heartes â—ey speake not according to the woorde GOD therefore there is no light in â—em saieth the Prophet Esaias And as â—emie the Prophete testifieth and saieth â—at they haue reiected the worde of â—e Lorde and what wisedome canne â—e in them They knowe not God and who â—eth not knowe that all trueth must be â—ied by his holie worde They are blinde â—d knowe not GOD and in this point are â—orse then either Turkes or Iewes that â—are câ—ntrarie to his worde woorshippe â—nd serue God in Images and idolls They â—nowe not GOD that dare accompt him â—ther not perfectlie iust or not perfectlie â—ercifull These blinde Papistes say that GOD wil be satisfied and pleased with huâ—aine iustice and satisfactions whiche the Prophete Esaie doeth call menstruouse cloutes so take they from God his perfect iustice and for his mercie they say that it onelie supplieth that whiche wanteth in mans merites What a patching is this of iustice of mercie and merites Againe they say that GOD hath not set downe in his Scriptures a perfect rule to all good workes but that they must add thereto their deuises of seruing and honoring God which neuer came in his remembrance neither were euer mencioned in his holie word wherin they must either make God not perfect in wisedome but ignorant of such things or not perfect in loue that would not declare such necessarie pointes vnto vs and so by their doctrine his infinit wisdome and infinit loue is denied whereby in effect they doe denie him to be god Againe these poore blind papistes know not Christ nor the scriptures wheÌ„ they make him a body infinit that may be in many places in heauen in earth and in ten thousand places at once where the scriptures do plainlie teach vs That he would not take the nature of Angels but our humaine nature and became like vs in all thinges sinne only excepted and that the heauens must conteine him vntill the time that all things be restored They know not Christ to be the onlie Mediatour of intercession and redemption the onelie Priest that prayeth and sacrificeth for sinnes our onelie King and Prophet for they teach the cleane contrarie They knowledge none of these offices of Christ to beloÌ„g to him alone but giue the power thereof to other creatures Therefore are they but onelie by name Christians â—ow may we saffelie ioyne to such a church â—hirdlie they knowe not the holy Ghost to be the only satisficer and certifier of the conscience they haue so manie other satisfactions and certificates of their owne deuises and so â—â—nie that a man can be certaine of his saluation by the spirit of god They knowe not that the whole Scripture is giuen by the Spirit of God is profitable to teach to improue to correct to instruct in righteousnesse that the maÌ„ of God may be made perfect to all good works But being led with a contrarie spirit eueÌ„ the spirit of errour as Paule saith they doe teach the doctrine of diuels forbidding meates and forbidding to marrie Thus the papistes in their doctrine erring in the principal articles of our Christian faith as also in their other commaundements cannot be the true Catholike church As for their outward forme of gouernement wherevpon they do so much boast let all men consider what it is They neither haue the names nor the offices nor the discipline appointed by Christe and his Apostles or practised in the primatiue Church Christe our sauiour commaunded his twelue Apostles to publish the Gospell the which these men labour to suppresse As for their discipline and gouernement in their courtes it is not to suppresse sinne but by feeding vppon the sinnes of the people to make them selues fat and riche They call their Courtes spirituall but they be carnall earthlie and diuelish Their suspensions excommunications and absolutions for monie Their dispensations for marriage quarter sermons are all for monie All sinnes in that court may be bought and solde for monie What haue they nowe to boast of when they neither haue the right order of gouernement neither reteine the right offices functions nor so much as the names allowed in the scriptures As for vs whom they accompt so coÌ„temptible we confirme the antiquitie and succession of the church from Christ his Apostles because we teach the selfe same doctrine and none other but that which we receiued of them which is written in the old and newe Testaments This is the succession which God him selfe promised to remaine for euer My words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy lippes nor out of the mouth of thy seede for euer saith the Lord so that wee may iustly approue our succession in the word and the sacraments which are the chief markes of the church Neither vse we as they do anie moe sacraments then Christ him selfe ordeined As for the names of our officers we cal them the ministers of Christ or like names according to the scriptures and they do the offices appointed by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles And we vse when we may do require alwayes that discipline that our maister Christ taught his Apostles practised to wit first brotherlie admonition in priuate then before some others afterwards if there be no repentance to tell the church last of all if the offender doe remaine obstinate to excommunicate from the sacrameÌ„ts Loe in fewe wordes the names the offices and our church gouernement we vse all grounded vpon Gods holy word not vpon the phantasies of men as yours is O ye Papistes repent therfore imagine no more such motiues subtile questions least your shame
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
aduocate with the Father â—esus Christ the righteous and he is the propiciation for our sinnes and not for â—urs onely but for the sinnes of the whole world By the which words we â— taught that Christ our sauiour is not onâ— the mediatour of our redemption but also â— our intercession doth plead our cause wâ— god Why would you haue vs to take Chrâ— his office froÌ„ him as you do by inuocatiâ— praying to saints in making theÌ„ meanâ— for vs seeing that the Saintes departâ— know not our estate vnderstande not oâ— infirmities as Esaie the prophet doth wâ—nesse saying Though Abraham be ignorant of vs Israel know vs not yet thoâ— O Lord art our Father our redemeâ— thy name is for euer Wherevppoâ— S. Augustine giueth this note Thoâ— seest here saith he that neither Abrahâ— nor Israel knewe after their death whâ— the estate was of their posteritie And iâ— the same chapter he saith I am certainely perswaded that the dead knowâ— no more what we do here in earth theâ— we being in earth knowe what they doâ— in heauen Touching seruice in an vnknowne speech howe can it stande with the Apostles doctrine If the Trumpet saith Saint Paule geue an vncertaine sounde who shall prepare himselfe to battaile Also in the same Chapter Let â— thinges bee done in the congregatiâ— to edifying howe are the people â—lified whiche vnderstande not what is â—oken But to make the matter more â—aine the Apostle saith further I had raâ—er in the Church to speake fiue words â—th my vnderstanding that I mighte â—so instruct others then ten thousande â—ordes in a straunge tongue You aske â—so who preached against the Churche â— Rome for the space of a M. yeares â—uly euen from time to time God had his â—hurche which reproued your grosse idoâ—tries And for a taste I will name you a â—we The Monkes â–ª of Chester which â—ere not idle bellied Monkes but payneâ—ll Preachers and lyued not vppon the â—eate of other mens browes but by their â—ne handy labour whom your Monkish â—ugustine sent into Englande by Pope â—regorie did finde meanes to murder â—ost cruelly by incensing the king to make â—arre against them Sabellicus saith in the â—are of our Lord 1111. the Bishop of Fluâ—ce beganne to teache preach Antiâ—rist then to be born to be manifest â—rnulphus a godly Precher inueying aâ—ainst the abominatioÌ„s of your Church was priuily hanged in Rome by youâ— cleargie men This is no tale but recoâ—ded by your owne histories A councâ— was holden in king Steuens time vndâ— Theobaldus Archebyshoppe of Caunteâ— burie charging the Byshoppes that thâ— people shoulde learne the Lordes prayeâ— and the Creede in Englishe Gherarduâ— and Dulcinus both being preachers affiâ—med the Pope to be Antichrist and Româ— to be Babylon In the same yeare king Henrie the seconde made Lawes at Claredowne in Normandie abolishing thâ— Popes authoritie taking away appellations and Peter pence In the citie of Tolouse in the yeare of our Lorde 1178. a great number both men and women professoures of the true religion were by the Popes commissioners coÌ„demned to death There were certaine christen people called Valdenses or Leonistes true professoures of the Gospell as appeareth by the articles of their religion which liued in the yeare of our Lorde 1170. And of these godlie Christians speaketh one of your owne writers who saith thus The secte of these Leonistes hath a great shewe of pietie or godlinesse because they liued iustly and vprightly before men â—nd doe beleeue all thinges very well â—hich concerne God and all the artiâ—es which be contained in the Creede â—nelie they doe speake ill of and doe â—ate the Churche of Rome I will not â—eake of king Iohn who detesting your Romishe doctrine was poysoned by a â—ayterous Moonke at Swinested Abbey â—n Lincolneshier I let passe Iohn Wickâ—iffe person of Literworth who reade the â—iuinitie lecture in Oxenforde a zealous â—rofessour of all the pointes of doctrine which we now mainteine Whose bones your cleargie tooke vp manie yeares after his death and burned them I coulde name Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage Bohemians whome the Emperour and your Pope sent for vnto the councell holden at Constance vnder their safe Conductes to come and goe in safetie yea though they prooued verie notablie their faith which word by worde agreeth with the true religion now set foorth Neuerthelesse contrary to promise their owne hands seales most violently they coÌ„demned theÌ„ for heretikes burned them And to salue this sore bleare the worldes eies they afterwarde decreed that Fides cum haereticis non esset seruanda that is That faith ought not to be kept with heretikes Gods name be thanked it may sufficiently be proued that in all ages there were some which defended the truth against your tyrannie But to come to the Pope this word Papa is a generall name vnto all learned men and therefore doth not pertaine onely to the sea of Rome Saint Augustine Saint Hierome writing one to another calleth each other Papa though one of them was conuersant in Iewrie the other at Hippo in Aphrick But to the matter You woulde knowe what wee mislike in the Popes gouernment and what Pope declined first from his Forefathers faith and steppes The Popes or Bishopes of Rome for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ did for the most parte suffer martyrdome vnder the wicked Emperours for the testitimonie of Christ and the doctrine in these daies published At which time they did not rule but were ruled After that they liued other three hundred yeares and more in a calme time and in greate quietnesse by Gods prouidence vnder Constantine the greate and the godâ— Emperours his successors Which time â—eeing expired and accomplished they â—eeing pricked forwardes through pride â—nd ambition did beginne to claime supeâ—ioritie ouer their fellowe Bishoppes â—nd also to decline by little and little from â—he perfecte rule of God his holy woorde â—nd veritie And in steede thereof magnified and extolled them selues and â—heir own inuentions traditions not stryâ—ing and contending who should excell or â—oe before one an other in pure and â—incere doctrine and holinesse of life But â—ather who coulde woorke moste mischiefe and iniurie one towardes an other of them seeking one to depriue an other of theire Bishopprikes and often times of lyfe in taking one an other out of their graues and also cutting of one an others â—ingers and poisoning one another and â—n making Lawes decrees and ordinanâ—es one against an other there beeing sometymes two or three Popes at one time in doctrine vnsound in life wicked and in this hurley burly the Churche of Rome continued a verie long time both before and after Hildebrande Neuerthelesse this Hildebrande beyng yet Cardinall as one of your owne Cardinals reporteth did beate Pope Alexander with his fist and kept him in
prison for that he woulde not take vpon him to be supreame heade of the Churche which Hildebrande poysoned sixe Popes was a coniurer and raised vp Diuelles and threwe the Sacrament into the fire Another saith that they were many that both priuatly and openly cursed Pope Hildebrande and said that with his hatred and ambition he troubled the worlde and that vnder the colour of Christ he wrought the feates of Antichrist This was he in whose time Sathan was let loose and when your Churche of Rome might truely be called the seate and harbour of Antichrist the man of sinne which setteth himselfe against God which sitteth in mens consciences is euen that whore which Saint Iohn speaketh of Which shoulde make the nations of the earth drunken with the cuppe of her fornication and hath imbrued her handes in the bloude of Gods Saintes Surely I muste needes say if that these Potenâ—ates had bene but a litle whitled and â—ot beastly drunke they woulde neuer haue bene so deceiued by Antichriste and receiued the marke of the beast What Lorde King or Emperour woulde haue kissed the Popes foote holden his stirâ—ope serued him at the table To coÌ„clude besides their wickednes in life as many of them being coniurers adulterets namelie Siluester the seconde whoe gaue him selfe bodie and soule to the Diuell that he might be Pope and Pope Ioane the woman Pope who traueled with Childe as shee was carried on foure mens shoulders about in procession their doctrine is most damnable and repugneth in all poyntes the Gospell of Christe As one saying of Agryppa speaking of the Pope and and Churche of Rome plainely sheweth They commaunde saith he the Angelles they haue power ouer the dead they vse violence against the Scriptures to haue the fulnesse of authoritie The Pope him selfe is become intollerable There was neuer Tyrant like vnto him in pompe and pride The Legates of the Byshoppe of Rome doe so riotte in their the Pope to be Antichrist as Irenaeus a godly father sheweth Antichrist saith he being a runnegate and a theefe yet hee will be woorshipped as a God And being but a bondseruant yet he will be proclaimed and published as a King. Another saith Antichrist shall faigne him selfe to bee holy that hee may deceiue men vnder the colour of holines yea he shall call him selfe God and shal cause him self to be worshipped and shall promise the kingdome of heauen An other saith Whereas he is a damned man and no spirit he pretendeth him selfe to bee a God and whatsoeuer he dooth no man may aske him Domine cur ita facis Sir why doo you so Enter now into your owne conscience examine these sayinges vprightly looke vppon them with a single eye and theÌ„ iudge you indifferently And I trust that you will recant according to your promise Papist 8 ITEM I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what way of ministring the Sacraments your Church had before papistrie as you cal it preuailed in the worlde shewe me one booke or coppie of communion or what else you list that was in english or lacked praying for the departed or inuocation of Saintes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receiue else the Prieste could not consecrate or say Masse receiuing alone or shewe anye note in a communion booke that people should take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should giue no honour vnto it shewe this booke or anie Church or congregation that euer had aniâ—â—utenticall seruice but ours And I recant Answeare 8 I Shal not neede to stand long in reciting what kind of seruice was vsed before papistrie began verely euen the same which our Sauiour Christ set foorth which is recorded in the foure Euangelists and in the Epistles and writings of the Apostles from which the Apostles the congregations vnto whome they had preached the Gospell departed not one iotte And so the Apostle speaking of the institution of the Lordes Supper saith That thing which I haue receiued of the Lord the same haue I deliuered vnto you As though he should say euen he which ought onely to beare authoritie in the Church hath prescribed a way and orders of celebrating his laste Supper of whiche these are the chiefe partes That the Minister shoulde shewe the Lordes death by preaching his woorde and Gospell by calling vppon the name of the Lorde in prayer in deliuering the bread wine to bee receiued with thankesgeuing that the congregation shoulde for their partes proue and try them selues touching the knowledge of GOD fayth in the mercies of God offered in Christ and true sorrowe and lamentation for their sinnes past endeuouring them selues to leade a new life to shew forth the Lords death in consenting to his woorde and institution It is manifeste that the people to the number of three thousande soules beeing of diuerse countries and nations conuerted vnto the Gospell by Peters preaching continued for so the holie Ghoste speaketh in the Apostles doctrine and felowshippe and breaking of breade and prayers This order of seruice was vsed in all congregations from time to time amongest true Christians and remayned perfect for the space of sixe hundred yeares and odde yea vntill the same was altered by your Popish Cleargie who not being contented with that whiche Chrisâ—e his Apostles and the auncient Doctoures and Fathers of the Churche had sette foorth deuised a newe way of worshipping GOD a new â—order of ministration a straunge and newe â— deuised forme of prayer and so turned all vpside downe But in defence of the truth we may boldely and truely answeare you that we holde and mainteine the same order of seruice the same ministration of Sacramentes the same prayer that the true Apostles and faithfull Christians vsed in all ages And whereas you aske for Bookes in Englishe which were written before Papistrie beganne in which there is no mencion made of praying for the deade of inuocation to saintes of priuate Masse It is plaine that there were sundrie godly bookes of Scripture whiche Dioclesian that wicked Emperour did burne in open markettes whose steppes your Churche of Rome hath followed euermore in suppressing the truth by suche meanes Notwithstanding God be thanked there bee manie volumes exstant writteÌ„ both by the auncient and godly fathers of the Church as also in the Saxon tongue in verie oldâ— English of which I haue seene one veriâ— lately found in a verie olde ruinons wall which forbiddeth prayers for the deade whiche teacheth vs onely to inuocate thâ— name of God which maketh mention oâ— no masse but of the communion in botâ— kindes and to conclude doeth aduouche iâ— all pointes the same Sacramentes thâ— same principles of religion and the same manner of worshipping God that we doe and proueth the same by the scriptures Iâ— appeareth in histories that the Bohemians made peticion vnto the councell holden aâ— Basill that
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the