it is Prophesied in the xij Chapiter of sainct Ihons Reuelation And yet for fiftie or sixtie yere agone it had been no harde matter to haue shewed you diuers members of our Churche bothe in Englande in Bohemia as th' historie of the church declareth at large Also in Fraunce at Merindoll and about Lyōs but these you will saie agreed not with vs in all poinctes but I will aunswere you thei agréed in the cheifest poinctes necessary to eternall saluation For whatsoeuer we are able to shewe for our Churche I am sure you are neuer able to shewe your self for your churche that whiche you require vs to shewe namely a churche that hath continued from this tyme vpwarde vnto the Apostles that taught vniformely and in all poinctes the doctrine that the Popishe Churche nowe teacheth Whiche thyng when you haue performed I will doe the like for oure Churche In the meane time that whiche is a sufficiente rule to finde out the true Churche by the iudgement of Saincte Augustine I will declare vnto you In his booke the vnitate ecclesiae Capi. 2. Inter nos autem Donatistat quaestio est vbi sit ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus In verbis nostris eam quaesituri sumus an in verbis capitis sui domini nostri Iesu Christi Puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum Betwene vs and the Donatistes saieth saincte Augustine the question is where the churche should bée What shall we doe then shall we seke her in our wordes or in the woordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that rather in his wordes we ought to seke her which is the truthe and beste knoweth his own bodie And in the. xvj chapiter of the same booke he writeth thus of the Donatistes Vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant That is whether thei haue the churche on their side let theim shewe none otherwise but by the Canonicall bookes of holy scriptures Many other suche testimonies are in S. Augustine by whiche it is plaine that he geueth this infallible rule to knowe the true churche to examine the doctrine therof onely by the scriptures But wheras you saie that Anabaptistes Libertines and Arians pretende the word of god and the primitiue Churche what meane you therby that we should forsake the worde of god the Primitiue churche by whiche all heretikes haue béen cōfuted what soeuer thei pretended For though heretikes pretende the scriptures yet onely by the scriptures thei are to be cōfuted though thei appeale to the iudgemente of the primitiue church yet by the primitiue church thei are condemned for heretikes I maie as well say that Arianes Libertines and Anabaptistes boste them selues to be the true Catholike Churche therefore wee must not allowe the true catholike churche It is pitie to see menne that would be coumpted wise and learned to reason so fondly and vnlearnedly For of all other reasons it is the vainest and feeblest shift that the Papistes vse to flie frō the scriptures to the aucthoritie of the Churche in confutation of heresies For there was neuer yet heresie did arise but there was as greate controuersie of the Churche as of the opinion for euery heretike boasteth as well of the Churche as of the scriptures but when all is dooen his bragges of bothe muste bee beaten doune onely by the scriptures But because you make so proude vauntes that you will so plainlie proue that our Churche hath none agreans with the primitiue churche of Christ in discourse of that controuersie with you I will sette for the bothe what is the Primitiue churche and how we agree therewith and I doubte not but that I shal bee able by the grace of God bothe to iustifie our cause againste your false accusations and also to ouerthrowe youre falshodde whiche you haue heaped vppe to ouerwhelme the truthe And as I haue confuted your sixe considerations which vnto you seme of greate importaunce so by Gods helpe I shall auoide all other youre calumniations in whiche with some subtiltie but more impudencie and moste of all impietie you goe aboute to intangle the consciences of suche as bee ignorante and vnlearned to withdrawe their obedience ▪ from the godly lawes of this realme whiche are established for the mainteinyng of Gods true Religion and the abolishyng of all Idolatrie and superstition The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the Scriptures prouyng that this late reformed Englishe churche hath none agreans with the Primitiue churche of Christ. The aunswere The very title of your argumentes declareth of what force youre argumentes are Your reasons are tenne in noumber whiche if thei were all graūted to be true yet foloweth not this conclusion that our Churche hath no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe excepte you would affirme that all the doctrine of the Primitiue Churche were comprehended in these tenne poinctes Again your owne Popishe Churche differeth in these tenne poinctes as muche from the Primitiue Churche as ours therefore by your owne Logike I will conclude that your Popish churche hath no agreance with the church of Christ. 1. For neither you haue all thinges common 2. neither dooe you sell your houses and landes to putte the price in common 3. Neither doe you make diuision to euery manne accordyng to his necessitie 4. Neither are all mēbers of your Churche so prouided for that none dooe begge 5. Neither doe you baptise onely in the name of Christe 6. Neither dooe you giue the holy ghost by laiyng on your handes 7. Neither dooe you restore theim to health whom you annoincte with oile beyng sicke 8. Neither dooe you make open confession of your synnes 9. Neither dooe you celebrate the Sacramente after supper 10. Neither dooe you abstaine from bloodde and strangled therefore by your owne reason you haue no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe Or if you maie haue any agreance these differences notwithstanding why maie not we the same differences nothyng lettyng vs haue sufficient agremente therewith You see that either your argument is nothyng worthe or els you haue as little agreance with the Primatiue churche as we Your only refuge is this that it is not necessary for you to haue any agreance with the primitiue Churche And that is the opinion of all Papistes whiche is diligently to be noted that you disclaime of al title of the Primitiue Churche whiche you holde was but an infante and by addition of your doctrine and Ceremonies is growne to bee of womannes state As though Christ maried his Churche when she was vnder age and so the matrimonie was not ratified and consumated before the Pope had nourtured her in his schole vntill she came to yeres of discretion For it is as lawfull for me so to inferre vppon your allegorie as for you so to allegorise of her But that you maie the better vnderstande what
we meane by the primitiue Churche I putte you out of doubte that none of vs doeth attribute vnto her suche long limites as you doe in your argumentes gathered out of the Doctours where you alledge the seconde counsaill of Nice as a determination of the primitiue churche whiche was holden almoste eight hūdred yeres after Christe Of whiche thing you were not ignoraunt but you thought it was sufficiente to fill vnlearned eares with greate blastes voide of all reason or truthe Wherefore when wee appeale to the Primitiue Churche wee meane the Churche of the Apostles and their successours so longe as thei continue in the doctrine of the Apostles whereof triall is to be made by the Canonicall writynges of the Apostles That wheras you accuse vs for departyng frō your churche as though we were of no Churche wee defende our selues to be of the true churche seyng wée retaine the faithe and doctrine of the primitiue Churche whiche without all controuersie was the true churche Now as I haue shewed you what we accompte to bee the primitiue churche so muste I declare in what thynges wee are bounde to consente and agree with the same For whiche purpose we must marke this difference whiche I suppose no Papist is so farre paste shame to deny namely that in the primitiue Churche some thynges were necessarie and immutable some thynges againe were temporall and variable Of the firste sorte is the doctrine and Sacramentes of the latter sorte are Ceremonies and politike constitutions To the doctrine no manne maie adde no man maie diminishe no manne maie alter any thyng thereof The Sacramentes beyng as Augustine calleth theim the visible woorde bee of the same nature with the doctrine On the other side Ceremonies and publike constitutions mate bee reteined or chaunged as thei make beste for edificatiō for order and for comelines And of this latter sorte are all those thinges whiche you alledge in which we differ from the primitiue churche But yet so longe as we holde still the same faithe and the same Sacramentes whiche are lefte to vs by the primitiue Churche all reasonable men will iudge that notwithstandyng your reasons wee haue suche agreance with the primitiue Churche as may proue vs to be members of the same For it is the vnitie of faithe and Sacramētes not of Ceremonies and constitutions that ioigneth vs vnto the bodie of Christe as witnesseth sainct Paule to the Ephesi iiij One faithe one baptisme one god c. Now let vs particularly consider your tenne differences The Papiste First it is written howe the beleuers in the Primitiue churche had all thinges in common And no one man did reckon the thing that he did possesse to be his owne or priuate The aunswere Firste it it is a sporte to see howe to make a shewe of a greate multitude of dishes and to fill vp the noumber of tenne you diuide one matter into fower quarters whiche is of the cōmunitie of al thinges that was in the primitiue Churche whiche should haue been serued all in one mease but for fashiōs fake That thei had all thynges common one while in Hierusalem it is very true but that thei had so alwaies and in all places it is most false for saincte Paule exhorteth the Corinthians to giue almose to the poore liberally j. Cor. xvj and he willeth Timothe that he charge thē that be riche in this worlde to be ready to distribute vnto that necessitie of their brethren j. Timoth. vj. which neded not all if all thynges had been common This was therefore a variable order and constitution whiche continued but a shorte tyme neither was it profitable but onely then when the noumber of the disciples was but small in comparison and liued all in one place at Hierusalē The Papiste Seconde in the Primitiue Church suche of the beleuers whiche were possessors of Landes and Houses soulde theym and powred it doune before the Apostles but the beleuers of this oure late reformed Churche are not come to that perfection nor yet are aminded so to doe The aunswere This is all one with the former for how could thei haue had all thynges common if euery man had reteined his houses and landes to his priuate vse And yet no manne was compelled to this communitie for Peter saieth plainlie to Ananias that he neded not to haue sold his land neither to haue brought the price but of his free will. But whereas you accoumpt it a perfection to haue all thynges cōmon I muste bée bolde to tell you ye sauour of Anabaptistrie for although it was then expediente for thal tyme emong a fewe yet it were not tollerable to bee vsed as a pefection emong all the churche of Christ But would bryng a meere confusion and disorder of all thinges beside that it is vnpossible that all Christian men in all places should haue all thynges common The Papiste Thirdly in the primitiue churche Christes Apostles and their successours were chiefe gouernours of the beleuers and of such goods as they had in common amongest theim diuision vnto euery manne was made therof by the appoinctment of the Apostles according as they thought it nedefull or necessarie And because Ananias the husbande of Saphira wente aboute to kepe backe a portion of that comon mony for the which they sould their Landes the Apostle S. Peter did strike theim bothe with sodaine death But in this our reformed Englishe church beside that the beleuers are at no suche appoinctment of the Bishoppes and successors of the Apostles they doe by their lawes spoile theim of all they haue by takyng from them so muche of their temporall landes and so muche of their goods for firste fructes tenthes and subsidies as they liste And therfore in this poinct it hath no agreans with the order of the Primitiue church The aunswere The Apostles kepte not that gouernement long in their handes but committed it ouer to the Deacons as it is declared in the sixte chapiter of the Actes by which it is manifeste that it was no perpetuall order whiche in so shorte tyme was altered For in suche thynges the Churche maie institute and chaunge as often as it shall seme expediente But whereas you charge our Prince to bee a spoiler of the churche by withdrawyng the landes and gooddes thereof by takyng firste fruictes tenthes and subsidies you shewe your self what an honest subiecte your are We for our partes acknowledge that it is in the Princes power to increase or diminishe the stipend of the ecclesiasticall ministers as shal be thought expedient and that it is our dueties to paie all suche taxes tributes and subsidies as by lawfull aucthoritie are laied vpon vs But I meruaile why you should accuse our princes for taking of subsidies as though Popishe princes doe not take subsidies of their Cleargies also and moste of all when the Pope who hath no aucthoritie to demaunde one penie hath extorted suche infinite sommes of money for annates firste fruictes palles pardons and suche other
called Especially whē you pretend to geue it the name whiche commonly it beareth for you are not ignorante that it is called the booke of Common praier and not the Common booke of praier But a man maie easely and peraduenture truely gesse why you refused to cal it the boke of common praier leaste any man should conceiue by the onely name that common praier which is so necessarie for the Churche of Christe a forme whereof that booke conteineth is altogether wantyng in your Popishe Churche where in your Missalles Processionalles Hymnalles Grailes Antiphonalls and Pontificalls are not conteined common praiers to the edification of all the churche but idle and vnprofitable ceremonies to the mainteinaunce of ignoraunce and superstition The Papiste The first consideration is because the saide seruis booke was condemned as hereticall and schismaticall Anno domini 1553. both by the clergie and cōuocation of this realme and by the nobilitie and commons of the same by al whose consentes ther passed an acte of Parliament for the repeale therof Beside that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer the chief aucthours and composers of the saied boke were therfore openly condemned by the Churche and Lawes of this realme suffered the paines of death in Oxforde S. Paule in his Epistle willed the hebrues to haue in remembrance their Bishoppes which preached vnto them the woorde of God and diligently to obserue and looke vpon the ende of their liues and conuersation The aunswere The first consideration cōteineth two causes of your refusal the one because the booke of Seruice was repealed by Acte of Parliament the other for that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer were burned at Oxforde for it To the first I aunswere that if you accompt the aucthoritie of the Parliament of force to condempne it why doe you not acknowledge th'aucthoritie of the same in establishyng it for anno 1551. by all the states of the realme that boke was allowed and appoincted to bee vsed Also by diuerse Actes of Parliamente in the tyme of our soueraigne Ladies reigne established and cōfirmed But it is no hard matter to gather your traiterous meanyng whiche is common to you with all them of your religion You accoumpte no actes of Parliament passed in the tyme of kyng Edward or Quéene Elizabeth to be of any aucthoritie beyng confirmed by the roiall assent of those whom you esteme to be no lawfull Princes seyng your father the Pope hath pronounced sentence of depriuation against them Your seconde reason I will tourne vpon your owne necke Seyng Cranmer Ridley and Latimer did so constauntly suffer death for the confirmation of that doctrine whiche thei hadde taught it is a good argumente that thei dissembled not with vs but vttered that truthe vnto vs wherein as thei liued so thei were content to dye The text of the Apostle to the Hebres 13. you applie verie straungely as though wee should thincke well of none that suffreth death by martyrdom wheras the Apostle meaneth cleane contrary and exhorteth the Iewes to followe the faithe of them the ende of whose conuersation thei had séen to be agreable to their doctrine who as thei had preached diligētly so did thei ende their liues by tormentes in the same confession constauntely and patiently The Papiste The seconde consideration is that the saied booke so vniuersally condemned by all degrees of men here in this realme was receiued and brought in againe only by the nobilitie and cōmons of this realme cleane contrary to the whole mindes of our Clergie no one person in the Parliamente did giue his consente thereunto Besides that the whole conuocation did exhibite their boke to the contrarie VVherin the shepe taking vpon theim to establishe this boke contrarie to the learnyng and conscience of their shepherdes thei haue doen against the expresse wordes of our sauiour Christ who in describing the office of good shepherde and the duetie of good shepe saied that a good shepherde muste knowe his sheepe and his sheepe muste knowe hym heare his voice and followe hym And the Apostle S. Paule in his Epistle Cap. 13. willed the Hebrues to obey their shepherdes and spirituall gouernours and to submitte themselues vnto theim for thei doe watch euen as men whiche muste geue accompte for their soules Obey them therfore saieth S. Paule that they maie do it with ioie and not with grief The aunswere Your seconde consideration is determinable by suche as are skilfull in the lawes of this realme what persones muste concurre in the Parliament that it may be an Acte of Parliamente and I doubte not but the matter was so ordered by the iudgemente of them that had knowledge as was for the honour and wealthe of the realme But if any errour had been committed at that tyme you speake of it was since by all three estates in Parliament redressed the same booke of seruice by their aucthoritie being confirmed But whereas you complaine that the Shepe in that firste Parliament tooke vpon thē against their shepherdes I aunswer naie but the Shepherdes againste the Shepebiters for your Cleargie consisted all of Wolues and not of Shepherdes wherefore it was the duetie of the Prince with the nobles and senatours of that Parliamente to deliuer the Shepe out of their cruell tyrānie and to banishe and remoue all suche raueinous beastes frō the flocke And touchyng the booke you saie thei exhibited of what credite would you haue it to bee when thei so shamefully refused conference before the moste parte of the Parliamente vpon a friuolous pretence in Westminster churche At whiche time al wise menne sawe that their cause was naught whiche durste not abide the triall in the open light The Papiste The thirde consideration is that it is prohibited by the Canons of the apostles and by the generall caunselles also that a christian man shoulde not communicate neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers with Heritikes and Schismatikes As it appeareth in the tenth Canon and in the seconde Canon of the counsell holden at Antioche It was decreed there that it was not lawful to communicate with excōmunicate persones nor to enter into any house nor to praie with thē nor lawfull to receiue them that are excommunicate out of one churche into another churche And in the coūsel holdē at Laodicea it was prohibited there that the christiā men should enter into the churches or churche yerdes of the heretikes there to praie with them and in the 33. Canon of the same counsell the like prohibition is there expressed for praier with Schismatikes And in the 4. counsell holden at Carthage Canon 73. it was decreed that christian men should nether praie nor singe with Heretikes And who so euer did praie singe or communicate with any excōmunicate person whether he were of the Clergie or of the Laitie shoulde be thereby excommunicated An example we reade therefore how the christian men at Constantinople would not cōmunicate with the Arianes neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers notwithstādyng that
you vse all those Ceremonies that were vsed in the tyme of those doctors whose names you alledge or that al your Ceremonies were vsed in the tymes of those Doctours vpon whose aucthorities you would seme to grounde But to cōsider your groundes particularly that Augustine whom you call saincte Augustine was an vnlearned Monke as appereth by his questions propounded to Pope Gregorie that came into this land to corrupte the sinceritie of faithe whiche the Britons had receiued euen from the Apostles aboute sixe hundred yeres after Christe and liued twoo hundred yeres at the least after the aunciente father sainct Augustine bushoppe of Hippo in Affrica of whose pride and folie you maie reade in Galfridus Monumeth Matheus Westmin and others And truthe it is that muche superstition and false doctrine he brought in and by tyrannie mainteined as our stories witnesse but not all that you holde at this tyme for your religion in all pointes is nothyng so old And as for Beda he liued longe after Augustine But where you affirme that all youre Ceremonies haue been alwaies approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersall churche of Christe I can no longer forbeare you you saie more then all the Papistes in the worlde will be able to proue Touchyng sainct Augustine although the place by you alledged is not to be foūd in his vndoubted writyngs yet I confesse that he speaketh fauourably of Ceremonies cōmonly vsed to be quietly suffered and borne withall rather then vnitie to bee broken But what maketh this for your Ceremonies whiche you teache to bee necessarie for saluation and meritorious whiche if thei had been in saincte Augustines tyme or that men had so taught of theim there is no doubte but he would haue vtterly misliked theim as hereafter in place more conueniente I shall plainly declare In your next sentēce out of sainct Augustine also I must néedes tel you you plaie the suttle Marchaunt to sett for the counterfeict ware in steede of true marchandice for Augustine neuer was of that opinion that the Church hath the full aucthoritie of her husbande Christ and such gouernemente of the holy Ghost that she cannot consente but vnto true thynges neither hath he any suche wordes in al his workes For it is well knowen that the boke de dogmaticis ecclesiasticis out of which this sentence séemeth to bee borrowed is not accompted among the Authenticall workes of Augustine but forged of muche later time and falsly fathered vpon S. Augustine to steale credite from his name whiche it could not obtain of it self And yet if this saiyng were graunted to bée true it perteineth nothyng to your church which is the Sinagoge of Sathan and not the Churche of Christe Concernyng your thirde testimonie of sainct Augustine I can hardely thinke that saincte Augustine would haue an vniformitie of Ceremonies in praier and administratiō of the Sacramentes throughout all the worlde because I am able to shewe his aucthoritie to the contrary as in his 118. epistle to Ianuarius he discourseth at large And whereas you saie that the chaunge of the maner of praiyng hath broughte in chaunge of faithe in this lande it is cleane contrary for the diuersitie of faithe teacheth vs to praie otherwise then you vse for inuocation commeth of faithe as witnesseth sainct Paule Roma 10. The testimonie of saincte Ambrose although you declare not where a manne should finde it maketh little for your purpose For we agrée with hym that Schismatikes are to be abhorred but wée will not graunt to you that wée are Schismatikes as long as wée knowe that wée are members of Christe The testimonie of Tertuliane concernyng custome if it bee faithfully rehearsed of you I se not what it maketh for you For although laudable customes maie be obserued without searchyng their beginnyng what is that to your Ceremonies whiche containe manifeste impietie For you your self will not bee so madde to allowe all customes seyng many are contrary to the worde of god And although Tertuliane was to muche addicted to the maintainyng of Ceremonies and customes in some places yet otherwhiles he either expoundeth his meanyng or correcteth his errour as in his booke De virginibus velandis where he writeth in these woordes Hoc exigere veritatem cui nemo praescribere potest non spacium temporum non patrocinia personarum non priuilegium regionum Ex his enim fere consuetudo initium ab aliqua ignorantia vel simplicitate sortita in vsum per successionem corroboratur ita aduersus veritatē vindicatur Sed dominus noster Christus veritatē se nō consuetudinē cognominauit Si semper christus prior omnibus aeque veritas sempiterna antiqua res viderint ergo quibus nouū est quod sibi vetus est Haereses non tam nouitas quam veritas reuincit Quodcūque aduersus veritatem sapit hoc erit haeresis etiam vetus consuetudo That is to saie This the truthe requireth againste whiche no man can prescribe not the continuance of tyme not the defence of persones not the priuiledge of any regions For of these custome takyng her beginnyng for the moste parte through ignoraunce and simplicitie is confirmed into an vsage by succession and so is bosted of against the truthe But Christ our Lorde called hymself the truthe and not the custome if Christ were alwaies and before all truthe is as eternall and aunciente a thyng as he Lette them bee well aduised therefore to whom that is compted new whiche of hym is coumpted old Heresies saieth he not so muche their noueltie as truthe doeth conuict for what soeuer soūdeth against the truthe that shal be an heresie yea though it be an old custome By this testimonie of Tertuliane euery man maie see what he thought of old custome when it was alledged to deface the truthe and of what customes he speaketh when he commendeth customes namely suche as agree with the truthe and not euery blinde superstitious Ceremonie wherof a greate nomber were inuented many hundreth yeres after his death The Papiste The fifte consideration is that wheras I am not perswaded that the forme of praiers set forth in the saide boke is lawful and catholike my comyng to heare it shoulde bee an acte not onely contrarie to mine owne conscience and also to my damnable sinne but also my comyng therto should be to the weake and ignorant an occasion of ruine and deadly sinne which is called scandalum infirmorum and I am bound by the words of our sauiour Christ to auoide that saiyng wo be to that man by whom any suche offence or slaunder shall vprise and come For of my comyng thether either they muste iudge that I am a dissembler in doyng against my cōscience or els they must iudge that I am in cōscience perswaded thereunto And therby gather by mine example a likyng of that thing to be good and holy which in my very conscience I do vtterly condemne and that this slaunder shall not be so taken
vniuersally and haue been alwaies vsed in the Churche Secondely that thei bee not contrary to the doctrine of the Apostles conteined in the holie scriptures for then it is moste certaine thei are no Traditions of the Apostles for thei did not deliuer one thyng in writyng and a contrary thyng in Tradition Thirdly that whatsoeuer Tradition of the Apostles is not conteined in the scriptures although wee knewe it came from the Apostles it is lawfull vpon good consideration to alter it For seyng that all necessarie matters are conteigned in the scriptures whatsouer thei deliuered whiche is not conteined in the scriptures was but temporall might be chaunged aswell as the decree De sanguine et suffocato of blood strangled And that we ought not to receiue whatsoeuer is commended to vs as a Traditiō of the Apostles maie appere by these exāples Irenaeus was a manne that liued nere to the age of the Apostles for he sawe as he hymself doeth testifie Polycarpus the disciple of sainct Ihon. And he declareth that it was a Tradition commonly receiued in Asia as of sainct Ihon the Apostle and of other of the Apostles that our sauiour Christe liued fiftie yeres whiche is contrary to the truthe of the Gospell Irenaeus libri 2. Cap. xxxv If suche a fable could bee credited for an Apostolike Tradition so sone after the Apostles departure what maie bee iudged of those that in two hundreth three hundreth fiue hundreth sixe hundreth eight hundreth yeres after the Apostles were not heard of but sodainlie were sette out in the worlde as Traditions of the Apostles Eusebius also reporteth libri v. Cap. xviii that it was alledged as a Traditiō of the Apostles that Christ commaunded theim not to departe from Hierusalem twelue yeres after his ascension whiche is manifestly contrary to the the historie of the Actes of the Apostles Tertuliane after he was fallen into the errour of the Montanistes voucheth the Tradition of the Apostles against the Catholikes whom he calleth Psychicos that is animales naturall men and not spirituall Ieronime in Euangel Math. libr. 4. Cap. xxv declareth that it was a Tradition emong the Iewes that Christ should come at midnight whervpon he gathereth that the Tradition of the Apostles was deriued that on Easter eue the people should not depart out of the churche before midnight but tary there for the commyng of christ A likely matter that the Apostles would make a Tradition of the erroure of the Iewes The same Ieronyme vpon the firste Chapiter of Agge saieth verie well of the Apostolicall Traditions Sed alia quae absque auctoritate testimonijs scripturarum quasi Apostolica traditione sponte reperiunt atque confingunt percutit gladius dei But other thinges also speakyng of heretikes whiche thei finde out and feigne of them selues without the aucthoritie and testimonies of the scriptures as it were by Tradition of the Apostles the sworde of God dooeth strike By these examples and testimonies it is manifeste that wée must not by and by receiue what soeuer is saied to be a Tradition of the Apostles The Papiste Fowerth saincte Augustine in his thirde Epistle ad Ianuarium in speakyng of these thinges whiche in diuerse partes are obserued in christes Churche diuersely he geueth that certeine and sure rule that if thei be not against the professed faieth of christes churche nor against the good liuyng and maners of men but haue in theim some maner of encouragement of a better life wheresoeuer saieth he we dooe knowe anie such thing diuersely to be vsed we shal not only not disalow theim but also folow thē with praise and innouation of life So that the infirmitie and weakenes of some men be not let therunto when otherwise if more profette maie come therby vnto the good then hurte vnto the weake offended therby sine dubitatione faciēda sunt without doubte saieth he al suche although thei be diuerse and in diuerse places diuersely obserued yet they ought to be continued and kepte The aunswere Wée agree with sainct Augustine that suche Ceremonies as are instituted for order and comelinesse sake beyng diuers in diuerse churches if thei be not contrary to the Scriptures are to bée obserued of suche as remaine in those Churches And what this should make either for you or againste vs I dooe not sée at all For your Ceremonies are voide of edifiyng vnorderly vndecent for the churche of Christ and then the opinion of merite and satisfaction that you ioigne vnto them beyng contrary to the Christian faithe and the aucthoritie of the Scriptures maketh thē to be vtterly abhominable Furthermore when you make them essentiall partes of the religion and worshippe of GOD our sauiour Christe hym self out of the Prophete Esaie doeth vtterly condemne thē For GOD will not be worshipped with the doctrine Traditions and preceptes of menne Matth. xv Thus neither your ten reasōs out of the scriptures nor your ten argumentes out of the doctours nor your fower bulwarkes out of S. Augustine are able to defende your Popishe churche from ouerthrowe whiche if she take vpon her to encounter with the truthe muste needes bée discomfited and come to vtter destruction The Papiste Besides that this refourmed Englishe churche hath no agreaunce with the catholike churche of christe the religion thereof doeth onely stande of negatiues like as it shall appeare in the processe followyng The aunswere Besides that your Rhetorike in railyng on our Churche is verie vnreasonable your Sophistrie it self in quarellyng againste vs is voide of sufficient subtiltie not onely to defende it self but at leaste wise to hide it self For what impudente kinde of arguing call you this by enumeration of a fewe particulers to conclude any vniuersall proposition These newe reformators deny twentie thynges whiche the Papistes affirme ergo their religion standeth onely of negatiues Maie not I likewise reason the Papistes denie fourtie thynges that the Protestauntes affirme Ergo the Religion of Papistes standeth onely vpon negatiues Furthermore whē euery affirmatiue proposition implieth a negation of his contradictorie and euery negatiue propositiō importeth an affirmation of his contradictorie you maie as well saie that it standeth altogether vpon affirmatiues as you dooe vpon negatiues Like as in the tenne commaūdementes of GOD onely twoo are affirmatiue and eight are negatiue wherein all the duetie of a Christian manne consisteth you might reason that Gods commaundementes stande almoste all of negatiues as though God did onely tell vs what we should not doe and did not teach vs what wée should dooe like as you conclude afterward vpō the sale of Clare the Butchers horse but that right reason telleth vs that the prohibitiue Commaūdementes are also preceptiue and the preceptiue commaundementes are also prohibitiue for he whiche forbiddeth adulteterie commaundeth a chaste life and he whiche commaundeth to honour our parentes forbiddeth vs to disobey the same But because faithe whiche is the foundation of religion is an affirmation of those thinges whiche are beleued
sola virtute Iesu Christi qui dixit confidice ego vici mundum alibi princeps huius mundi eijcitur foras quare nos sola eius virtute confidamus mundum posse vincere diabolum superare The fifte rule of a godly mā is that thou doe not trust in those twelue peeces of armour nor in any other humane remedie but in the onely vertue of Iesus Christ which saieth be of good corage I haue ouercome the world in an other place the prince of this world is cast out wherfore lette vs trust by his vertue alone both to ouercome the world and to vanquishe the Deuill Also in his booke de conflictu carnis animae Cap. 6. Tibi domine deus meus attribuitur quicquid pertinet ad potentiam diuinam autem potentiam euidentius nihil manifestat quam iustificare impium hoc est trahere peccatorem iuxta quod legitur Deus qui omnipotentiam tuam parcendo maxime miserando manifestas melius enim est iustificare quam creare cum creando detur natura iustificando autem auferatur culpa conferatur gratia To thée O lorde my god is ascribed whatsoeuer perteineth to power and there is nothing that setteth forthe the power of God more euidently then to iustifie an vngodly man that is to draw a sinner accordyng as it is redde O God whiche shewest thine almightie power most of all in sparyng and shewyng mercie for it is a greater mater to iustifie then to create whereas in creating nature is geuen but in iustifiyng sinne is taken awaie and grace geuen I will conclude with Venantius in his exposition of the Crede wherein he followeth Ruffinus vppon the Article of remissiō of sinnes vsing almost the very wordes of Ruffinus saieth on this maner Remissionem peccatorum nobis in hoc sermone sola cre dulitas sufficit nec ratio requiritur vbi principalis indulgentia comprobatur Onely beliefe in this speache is sufficient to geue vs remission of sinnes neither is any reason required where mercie is proued to be the principall cause Seiyng therfore that wee are compassed as the Apostle saieth with suche a cloude of witnesses I cannot but meruaile with what face the aduersaries canne so cōfidently pronounce that the doctrine of iustification by faith alone is newe doctrine neuer harde of in the Churche before this fortie or fiftie yeres And for as muche as the witnesses are in nomber so many in tyme so auncient in learnyng so excellent that of all men they are reuerenced and séeyng their testimonies are so diuerse all to one ende some affirmyng the doctrine in plaine termes some yeldyng reasons therof some shewyng proofes and argumentes for it some aunsweryng obiections made against it and euery one of these in seuerall wordes phrases and maners of speakyng I am suer though subtiltie canne deuise startyng holes to elude some of theim all the crafte of the Deuill cannot bée able to auoide theim al. And if the only admonitiō of August be thought of you sufficient for both learned men and Christian menne whiche is that a baren deade and vnstructfull faithe is not sufficient for saluation what thinke you so many admonitions of so sundrie both learned and christian writers ought to woorke with all men teaching that a true and liuely faith alone in the onely mercie of God by Iesus Christe doth iustifie We agrée with Augustine that a solitarie faith doth not iustifie if you can as well agree with the scripture and almost all auncient Fathers that a fruictfull faith alone doeth iustifie not by merite of the fructes but by takyng holde of Gods mercie The Papiste And that which is most of all to be meruailed at wheras the religion of this reformed Church hath lefte vs nothing to serue God withall but this onely and alone faith whiche they doe affirme to suffice they doe by the free choise and will of man denied clene take awaie this onely faith also like as al other gifts graces benefits vprising vnto man by the death and blood sheding of Iesus Christe For so muche as the free will of manne is the seate of grace and the mansion house of faieth whereby faieth is produced and brought foorth by the grace of God as chiefe agent and worker thereof and in the will of man as in an apte receptackle and place to receiue the same when no man canne beleue but he that will. And therfore for man to beleue both these two thinges are necessarilie required First is the acte of Gods grace stirryng and mouynge the will of man therunto second is the consente of mannes will to applie and receiue the same without the whiche consente of mannes will Goddes grace knocketh all in vaine As it appeareth by the citezeins of Hierusalem vnto whom our sauior Christ saieth in the Gospell Hierusalem Hierusalem whiche dooest slaie the Prophetes and stonest them to death that are sent vnto thee how often tymes would I haue gathered thy children like as a Henne gathereth her chickens vnderneath her wynges and thou wouldest not I would saith christ but thou O Ierusalē wouldest not VVherby it appeareth that god by his grace doth not worke his belefe in the soule of man as in a stocke or in a stone with out any consente of mans parte to be geuen thervnto whē there is no man that can by any other meane receiue faithe then by the consente of his owne will and therefore in the worke of faithe Gods grace and mans will muste consente and ioigne together bothe The Apostle saincte Paule in witnesse thereof saieth by the grace of God I am that I am and his grace in me was not in vaine but I haue laboured more aboundantly then thei all and not I saieth saincte Paule but the grace of God with me and not without me as workyng before in me and without my consente but mecum with me For Augustine saieth that almightie God whiche in the beginnyng did create manne without any consent askyng of manne therevnto he will not nowe iustifie manne constreinedly and whether he will or not but with his owne consente will and desir◠therevnto For the kyngdome of heauen saieth our sauiour Christ suffereth violence and the onely violente menne whiche here will trauaile laboure and fight therefore shal be partakers of that kyngdome VVhē the ioyes of heauen are not so vile nor so meane thynges like as the Apostle saincte Paule saieth but thei are worthe the labouryng for seyng therefore it can not bee denied without deniall of the expresse testimonies of the scriptures but that the consente of mannes will must necessarily come with Goddes grace to receiue faithe therefore in the deniyng of the consent of mannes will thei deny faithe and thus in fine the religion of this newe reformed churche is brought all circumstaunces beyng duely examined from onely faithe and faithe alone to haue no faithe at all The aunswere It is a greate marueile to see
is your blasphemous doctrine that me doe moste abhorre and your Ceremonies we hate the more for your doctrines sake You should therefore stande to the defence of your doctrine and not fight so egerly for your Ceremonies if you would vse good pollicie Nowe for these obseruations I haue aunswered before sufficiently by whiche as by the reste of myne answeres I truste it shall appeere to euery manne of indifferente iudgemente that notwithstandyng all your twentie argumentes of bothe sortes our Churche hath suche conformitie and agremente with the primitiue Churche of Christe that she maie bee truely compted a member of the same and partaker in the communion of all the sainctes of God. The Papiste Of what force streingth and estimatiō those thinges are of whiche haue been vsed in christes catholike churche it shal appeare by these testimonies of sainct Augustine followyng The aunswere Before you had spoken of the force of those matters you should haue doen well to haue considered the force of your argumentes whiche howe stronge so euer those thinges bee are to weake to proue that whiche you propounde namely that our Churche hath none agreaunce at all with the Primitiue Churche of Christe But seyng you will needes sette for the dignitie of these matters wee will seuerally consider all these fower argumentes The Papiste Firste sainct Augustine writyng againste the Donatistes saieth looke what thinges the vniuersall church of christe obserue and hath at all tymes obserued if the same bee not ordeined by any generall counsell thē it ought most firmely to be beleued that it came to vs onely by the auctoritie and tradition of the Apostles The aunswere Although I knowe what to thinke of vnwritten Traditions yet if you bee able to proue that al these thinges wherof you speake the vniuersall Churche of Christ doeth and hath alwaies obserued I will yelde to you that thei are the Tradition of the Apostles accordyng to your testimonie whiche if you canne not doe as I am well assured you will neuer bee able to dooe it by your owne reason and aucthoritie we neede not holde theim for Traditions of the Apostles nor yet decrees of generall Counsailes The Papiste Second sainct Augustine in hys Epistle ad Casulanum saieth how in all these thinges whereof the Scriptures hath made no certeine determination the maner of the people of god ▪ or decrees of our elders must be taken and holden as a lawe to gouerne our selues and in the same Epistle he maketh mention how the Sondaie because it is not fasted whiche fastyng is a Sacrifice acceptable to God ▪ Therefore saieth he the Sondaie maie not bee celebrated and kepte without an other Sacrifice whiche is acceptable to God. The aunswere The Scripture hath determined of all necessarie articles of faithe and againste all superstitious opinions and Ceremonies And these thynges you speake of we proued to bee suche therefore in theim by Saincte Augustines rule neither the custome of people nor the decrees of elders muste take place but the aucthoritie of Goddes woorde But of suche thynges as bee variable Ceremonies for edification order and comelinesse sake diuers particuler Churches maie make particuler decrees whiche are nothyng preiuditiall to the vniuersall Churche of Christ whiche is the principall argumente that saincte Augustine handeleth in that 86. Epistle to Casulanus where he defendeth the custome of the moste parte of the Churche againste the custome of the Churche of Rome As I haue touched before whiche thyng of you will in no wise bee allowed And as concernyng the Sacrifice he speaketh of to bee celebrated on Sondaie he meaneth not the propiciatorie Sacrifice of the Masse as perhaps you would seme to inferre But the celebration of the communion for thus he writeth in the same Epistle against Vrbicus Dicit cessisse pani pecus tanquam nesciens tunc in domini mensa panes propositionis poni solere nunc se de agni immaculati corpore partem sumere dicit cessisse poculo sanguinem nō cogitans etiam nunc se accipere in poculo sanguinem He saith that the Shepe hath giuen place to the breade as though he were ignoraunt that then also the Shewbread was vsed to bée sette on the Lordes boarde and that now also he taketh parte of the bodie of the immaculate Lambe he saieth that bloodde hath giuen place to the Cuppe not consideryng that now also he receiueth bloode in the Cuppe These woordes declare bothe that the Sacrifice was nothyng but the Communion and also that the wine is none otherwise called bloodde then the bread is called a lambe and that the bread in nature and substaunce is suche as was the Shewbreade in whiche was no transubstantiation and thirdely the necessitie of the Communion in both kindes if this analogie of Augustine must stande wherfore sainct Augustine in this Epistle maketh little for your purpose The Papiste Thirde saincte Augustine in his thirde Epistle ad Ianuarium saieth that the thinges whiche we doe obserue throughout the whole worlde beyng not written but deliuered vnto vs either from the Apostles or generall counselles the aucthoritie wherof is notable and as of theim receiued ought to be obserued as the yerely remembrance and feastes of the passion of Christe of his ascention into heauen and of the cōmyng of the holy ghost whiche are celebrate in the Churche of Christe or any other like thing whiche is vniuersally obserued from whatsoeuer it first came fro and therefore saieth sainct Augustine in the same Epistle to reason or dispute why the same thinge ought to be obserued whiche of long tyme hath been obserued throughout the whole world by the auctoritie of christes church insolentissima insania est it is a poincte saieth he of extreme madnes And therfore saieth saincte Aug. the chaunge made of so long a custome yea though the same shoulde be verie profitable yet by the newnes thereof it doeth vexe and trouble the Churche of Christe it is made vnprofitable vnfruictful and finally hurtfull to the church of christ and for an example therof he doth there alledge how the disciples of christ did receiue the body and blood of christe not fastinge but after supper is the vniuersall church of christe therefore to be reproued or the custome therof to be chaunged whereby wee do in the same receiue the body and blood of christe fastyng and that for a more reuerence therunto in preferryng the foode of the soule before the foode of the bodie doubtles so for to doe it shoulde bee after the minde of Augustine both hurtfull vnto the churche of christ and a greate ponct of madnesse The aunswere This testimonie in effecte is the same with the former Sainct Augustin would haue suche Traditions as haue alwaies been vsed in the Churche to bee supposed that either thei came from the Apostles or from the generell Counsailes but here wee haue diligently to consider that wée admitte not all suche thynges as are called Traditions but onely suche as are