of vvomens prophesying not extraordinary but ordinary In his third answer he dealeth vvorse then in any of the other in labouring to smother one truth under another For albeit the women of Corinth were become so mannish as that they would prophesie uncovered and without their veile the ensigne of their subjection yet doth not the Apostle meddle at all with that malady in this place but in the 11. chapter of the Epistle as himselfe noteth Here and in Tim. he simply forbids the thing there the manner of doing it Likewise for their being as forward to speake as their husbands and in their presence it may be true in part and in some But what then Doth the Apostle in these places onely forbid their speaking uncovered and permit them to teach so it be veiled or forbids he onely their being as forward as their husbands but giues them leaue to speake in the Church so it bee with good maners and after them which his answer insinuates Or is it not evident to all that will not shut their eyes that he simply and that severely inhibits them all speaking whatsoever in this exercise Are not the words plain enough Let the women keep silence in the Church for it is not permitted to them to speak but to be under obedience as the Law sayth And againe It is a shame for them to speake in the Church And in 1. Tim. Let the women learne in silence with all subiection And I suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurpe authority ouer the man but to be in subjection For Adam was first formed c. Do not all and every one of the Reasons binde women to all peace and deepe silence in the Church yea to such and so absolute as that they may not so much as aske a question for learning any thing themselues vers 35. much lesse teach others any thing I therefore conclude this as a most certain and undeniable truth that the Apostle speaks here of such a gift and exercise as women are simply forbidden to use in the Church and therefore not of an extraordinary gift or exercise which they might use lawfully and did both before and a long time after the writing of this Epistle His last answer now comes in consideration which is that the consequence is ill women are forbidden and therefore men are permitted to prophesie in the Church by an ordinary gift If the consequence seem not good why doth he so strugle as before otherwise to make an escape from the Argument let us cōsider of the force of it which appeareth to me irresistable in these 3. things First the Apostle in and for this work opposeth the men to the women sex to sex so in prohibiting women he permits men VVhen the H. Ghost opposing faith and workes in the case of iustification denies that we are iustified by works is not the consequence good that therfore we are iustified by faith VVhere hee opposeth belevers vnbeleevers in the case of Salvation and teacheth that beleevers shall be saued doth he not teach consequently that vnbeleevers shall perish If these consequences be not good I must confesse my selfe farre to seeke both in logick and Divinity Secondly the reasons of the prohibition of women prove the consequēce which are all such as prefer the men before the women subiect the womē to the men in the Church in this very work of prophesy of which he treateth But now if in prohibiting women he gaue not liberty vnto men where were the prerogatiue of men aboue women which is the onely ground vpon which he buildeth his prohibition Thirdly where verse 34.35 It is not permitted for women to speak but if they will learn any thing to ask their husbands at home if their husbands might not speak neither nor any more then they what reason can be rendred of the Apostles so speaking Lastly M. Yates in denying this consequence sheweth that so he might deny something he tooke no great heed what it were The Apostle in this whole Chap. takes order for some to prophesy and debarring women therefrom either admits men to the vse of that liberty or els wee must haue some third kinde of persons thought of which are neither male nor female My fourth Argument is from v. 29. and 32. Let the prophets speak two or three and let the rest iudg and the spirit of the prophets are subiect to the prophets VVhence I affirm that the Apostle speaks not of extraordinary prophets or prophesying since they in their doctrines could not erre and so were not subiect to any such iudgment or censure of others He answereth roundly though breifly in this place that these prophets were not infallibly assisted and more largely in another place that such prophets as haue an infallible assistance are not subiect to this Rule but others that had but as the Apostle said Rom. 12.6 meaner gifts were to be examined according to the … portion of faith so that extraordinary prophets might mix some of their own with the extraordinary gifts of Gods spirit which was to be censured by such as had a greater measure for none are to think that all that had these extraordinary gifts were free from errour in their very doctrine We see the strange gift of tongues was abused and so might the rest be That one extraordinary Prophet had a greater measure and proportion of gifts then another I acknowledge but that any one of them could erre in doctrine or was not infallibly assisted therein by the spirit I deny as a most pernicious errour weakning the foundation of faith and truth of the word of God neither hath M. Yates so much as exterprized an Answ unto the Scriptures brought by me to prooue the contrary which were Eph. 2.20 where the Ephesians as the houshold or Church of God are said to bee built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets c. c. 3.5 where he speaks of the mistery of Christ which in other ages was not made known unto the sonnes of men as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and Prophets by the spirit VVhence it apeares that the Church is as well built upō the foundatiō of the Prophets to wit extraordinary which then were for of them he speaketh as upon the doctrine of the Apostles and they as infalliby even for the very foundation inspired by the H. Ghost as the other So that if the Prophets could erre in doctrine then the Apostles if in doctrine taught why not written and if one alone why not more or all and if they might erre how know we that they did not erre If he say the meaner in gifts might erre but not the greater first the same followeth also touching the Apostles how much more touching the Prophets before Christ not comparable to those after him why then may there not be errors in the writings especialy of those of meaner gifts as without doubt some were in comparison of
a a strange tongue was extraordinary as likewise the revelation and interpretation I. Rob. ANSVV. NOT to meddle with his description of a Psalme Doctrine c. further then concernes our present occasion The first a Psalme was not so undoubtedly as hee maketh it some sudden to wit extraordinary motion of the spirit c. The scriptures rather insinuate the contrary and that these Psalmes and spirituall songes were also besides the Psalmes of Dauid and those then made by extraordinary motion which I will not deny euen ordinary and conceaued by ordinary men and motions Ephe. 5.18.19 Col. 3.16 Iam. 5.13 The scriptures are to be extended as largely and to as common use as may be neither is any thing in thē to be accounted extraordinary saue that which cannot possibly be ordinary which these might bee For the findeng out of sweet mater they had admirable divine books to read even the wonderfull divine scriptures For musicke as without doubt many in that most rich and delicate City were expert in it so what reason he hath to require for the Church singing then in use such study and art I see not except it be because he dwels too neere a cathedral Church Hee may see for the plainenesse of singing used in former times and before the spouse of Christ the Church in all her ordinances was by Antichrist stripped of her homely but comely attire and tricked up with his whorish ornaments that which Austin hath of this matter Confess l. 10. c. 13. For the second which is doctrine he but thinks there were no Doctors in Corinth But he may well change his thoughts if he both consider how that Church abounded in the body of it even to excesse in all knowledge utterance the Doctors two speciall faculties as also how this Apostle in this Epistle c 12. v. 28. affirmeth expresly that God had set in the Church amongst other officers Doctors or Teachers Besides that it is enough for my purpose if there were any in Corinth though not officer able by ordinary gift to deliliver doctrine which considering the fore-signified state of that Church both in respect of Pauls ministery amongst them and testimony of them being in that Citty which was the chiefe of all Greece for governement Greece also being the fountaine of learning and eloquence can not I think be reasonably denyed To yeeld you without further dispute that Revelation Interpretation were viz. only the immediate work of the spirit were in us more courtesy then wisdom For Interprecation I see not but that either he himselfe who spake the tongue by an extraordinary gift or any other man that understood it having ordinary ability to interpret the matter deliuered both lawfully might in conscience ought so to doe except he would quench the spirit both in respect of the extraordinary gift of the tongue ordinary gift of interpretation but that the Pastor or Teacher might not doe this by his ordinary gift which is yet a fort strong enough to keep us from yeelding were strange to imagine Besides let it be noted how the Apostle v. 13. exhorts to pray for the gift of Interpretation Now how a man might pray for an extraordinary and miraculous gift which hee wholy wanted without an extraordinary motion or promise and meerely upon the Apostles exhortation generall I see not but would learn of him that could teach me M. Yates ARG. 8. FROM present Revelation v. 30. In the verse going before is laid down in what order they shall prophesie even as it was before for strange tongues yet here is a further injunction and that is of silence if any thing of more weight shal be revealed unto another why should the other keep silence if it were known before that this man should speake after him if it were ordinary prophesying and such as our pains and study brought us unto then were it fit that we should haue our liberty to goe on and not be interrupted by an other but the Apostle upon the Revelation to another even sitting by enioyns silence to the present speaker which if his Revelation had been studied before could not bee any motiue or perswasion why hee should yeeld to the other that is now upon the sudden to take his place this were for one Prophet to disgrace another but the cleare sence is to any man that will not wrangle that because it pleaseth the spirit to inspire one sitting by with some more excellent matter either in regard of the same subiect or some other the Apostle enioyns silence I. Rob. ANSVV. TO his question why the former speaker should keep silence if it were knowne before that a 2d. should speak after him it is easily answered that euen therefore he was to keep silence that is to take vp himselfe in due time as being to think in modesty that the conduits of the spirit of God did not run into his vessell alone but that others also might receaue of the fulnes of the same spirit to speake something further to the edification of the Church especially sitting down in som appoynted place which it should seeme vers 30. and Act. 13.14 he that purposed to prophesie vsed to take and which order I thinke the Iewes yet obserue in their Synagogues And where he ads that if it were ordinary prophesie and such as our study brought vs vnto then were it fit we should haue our liberty to go on and not to be interrupted by another which he also accounts a disgracing of the former I would know of him whether it vvere not as fit and much more that the extraordinary Prophets immediatly inspired by the Holy Ghost and who could not erre should haue their liberty to go on uninterrupted Is not this vvithout all compasse of reason that the extraordinary Prophet immediatly inspired should not haue as much liberty to goe on without being interrupted as the ordinary vvho might vvorthily deserue to be interrupted for speaking untruly or impertinently although I do not thinke that the Apostle requires any interrupting of the former by the later vvhich were rude if not vvorse but onely a convenient cession or place-giving to a second by the first speaker as hath been said Now the Exception of disgrace to the former by the latters speaking is well to be minded that it may appeare how evill customes do infect the mindes of godly men so as they think it a disgrace that one should giue place to another to speake after him further or otherwise then he hath done But it vvas not so from the beginning but since they vvho under Christ should bee servants of the Church haue been her masters and haue exercised this magisteriall teaching now in use vvhere ordinarily one alone in a Church divers others in divers places better able then he sitting at his feet continually to learne must be heard all his life long thinking it a disgrace to haue another speake any thing further then he hath done vvhich vvas the
very disease in the Church of Corinth wherein he that spake first vvould take up all the time himselfe vvhereas he should in modesty haue conceived that a second or third especially seeming provided to speake by seating themselues in the same place vvith him might haue something revealed further or othervvise then hee had VVhich Revelation the Apostle doth not oppose to fore-going study as M. Yates thinketh but unto emulation and study of contradiction teaching that the spirit alone must be heard in the Church speaking by whose mouth soever And that there is in the Church an ordinary spirit of revelation besides comfortable experience these places amongst many other do clearly proue Math. 11.28 16.17 Eph. 1.17 Phil. 3.17 Mr. Yates ARG. 9. FRom vocation v. 29 32.37 these spiritual men are called Prophets and to imagine a Prophet without a calling is that which the Scripture will not endure therefore all these Prophets either had immediate calling from God or mediate from men or else they tooke it up themselues the two first we grant lawfull callings but this intollerable Numb 11.28 The servant of Moses sayes Forbid Eldad and Medad to prophesie his reason was because he thought they had no calling which had been true if they had taken it up without immediate inspiration But Moses knowing that it was from God wished that the like gift might be upon all Gods people so that those were true Prophets for the instant by an immediate call from God and the text sayes They added no further shewing that as the gift ceased so did they I. Rob. ANSWER IT is true that Spirituall men are called Prophets or rather Prophets Spirituall men what is it then that makes a spirituall man but a gift of the spirit and what a prophet ordinary or extraordinary but the gift of prophesie ordinary or extraordinary vvhereupon it followeth undeniably that so many vvith us or elsevvhere as haue the ordinary gift or ability to prophesie are prophets though out of office In this Argument he hath made a snare vvherewith himselfe is taken unavoydably Secondly vve affirme that our prophets haue a calling which I haue declared formerly not to make them prophets by condition or estate for that they are by their gift but for the use or exercise of the same gift before bestowed uppon them by the Lord through their labour and industry Of Eldads and Medads prophesying we shall speake hereafter onely note vve in the meane vvhile how M. Yates and rightly apportioneth their prophesying to their gift as wee doe also ours according to that of the Apostle Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us whether prophesie let us prophesie according to the proportion of faith or a ministery let us wayt on the ministery Rom. 12.6.7 They then that haue a gift must prophesie according to their proportion M. Yates ARG. 10. FRom distinction v. 37. the Apostle from the whole Church turnes himselfe to their Prophets and spirituall men shewing plainly that these had some particular place aboue the rest and he giues them speciall charge to obserue the things he writes to the Church therefore those were in some calling aboue others and to imagine the contrary is to run wide of the current of the whole Scripture to set men in publike place without calling is the same with confusion and disorder I. Rob. ANSVV. THIS Argument is founded upon the groundlesse presumption with the former viz. that there is in the Church no lawful calling for men able to prophesy but by officing them And for Pauls turning his speach to the Prophets v. 37. it shewes indeed that they were aboue the rest after a sort and so they are with us rightly preferred before others which want that endowment of the spirit by which they are enabled to speake to the edification of the Church The Confirmation of the Scriptures and reasons brought in my book to proue publick prophesying out of office by an ordinary gift AND before wee come to examine M. Yates his Answers to the Scriptures by me produced I desire the Reader to obserue with mee these two things First that I do not affirme in my book that all the there alleadged Scriptures are meant of ordinary prophesy but that the same is proved by them Neither will he I presume deny but that many things are sufficiently proved from a scripture by necessary consequence and iust proportion besides the particular properly intended in it 2. That M. Yates so puts the question as that it is hard to say whether he do mee or himselfe the more iniury namely whether the places prove an ordinary gift of prophesy out of office For as I do not say that they proue the gift but the use and exercise of the gift bestowed by God whether ordinary or extraordinary so neither would he haue denied had he not leaped before hee had lookt but that others besides ministers haue an ordinary gift of prophesie Where the Apostle requires of him that desires the office of a Bishop that he be apt to teach 1. Tim. 3.1.2 and able to exhort with sound doctrine Tit. 1.9 doth he not therein most evidently teach that the gift and ability to teach preach and prophesy not onely may but must both be and appeare to be in the person to be called to the office of ministery He that is not a prophet or hath not the gift of prophesying or preaching for by his gift he is a Prophet by the use of it he occupies the place of a Prophet before he be appointed a Pastor is an Idol sheepheard set up in the temple of God neither doth the office either giue of so much indeed as encrease the gift but onely giues solemne commission charge to use it The first Scripture by mee brought is Numb 11.29 where Moses the man of God wisheth that the whole people of the Lord were Prophets the Lord putting his spirit upon them This place saith M. Yates in his Ans speaks of the powring out of the Spirit in an extraordinary manner as may apear by the occasion of the speech v. 24. c. Where also in a tedious manner as his manner is hee proveth the gift of prophesying given to the 70. Elders to haue been extraordinary which as I deny not so neither needed he to haue proved But this I affirm that hence is proved the lawfulnesse of ordinary prophesying out of office by men enabled thereunto And first as Moyses wisheth that all the Lords people were Prophets the Lord giving his spirit unto them so the minister may and ought to wish that the Lord would so blesse the ordinary endeavours of his people now by his spirit as that they all might bee Prophets that is able for gifts to speak to edification The minister which desireth not this envieth for his own and the Clergies sake which Moses would not that Ioshua should do for his Secondly Moses makes it all one to be a Prophet
the rest what wether this wind will bring who seeth not Moreouer whereas vvee propound such interpretations and doctrines as we gather from the Scriptures by discourse of reason and so may erre they on the contrary every one of them delivered doctrine by immediate inspiration of the spirit in which by reason of the divine impression which it made in their hearts differencing it from all both humane collection and Diabolicall suggestion they could not erre or be mistaken but knew infallibly when and wherein they were moved by the H. Ghost Befides there is not like reason of strange tongues and prophesie for the consideration in hand since the Church is not built upon the foundation of strange tongues as upon the foundation of prophesie neither was the matter of the speech inspired but the language onely except the same persons were Prophets also Lastly if there were the like reason of tongues and prophesie yet except men might erre in a tongue and deem themselues inspired extraordinarily when they were not which were absurd to affirme it could not evince any possibility of erring in doctrine by extraordinary Prophets The last Argument in my booke I take from v. 37. 38. If any man think himself to be a prophet or spirituall let him acknowledg that the things that I write unto you are the commandements of the Lord But if any be ignorant let him be ignorant M. Yates taxeth mee for making a Prophet and spirituall man all one since by a spirituall man is meant such as excelled in any spirituall gift prophesie or other But without cause since I neither mean more nor need more for my purpose then that a Prophet bee included in the generall of a spirituall man But wherefore doth he not answer the Argument or minde where the force thereof lieth which is in the words following let him acknowledge that the things that I write are the commandements of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant let him be ignorant The extraordinary prophets were guided as immediately infallibly by the revelation of Gods spirit as Paul himself might as wel haue required of him to acknowledg that the things which they speak were the commandements of the Lord a◠hee of them neither was it possible that they or any of them should bee ignorant that the things which hee spake were the commandements of the Lord. Which Argument is also much strengthened and made in my iudgement unanswerable by that which we finde v. 36. Came the word of God out from you or came it unto you onely which words the Apostle doth not direct unto the women as M. Yates misconceaveth with great errour and contrary both unto reason and to the expresse Greek text which will not beare it but to the Prophets with whom hee dealeth and that by way of comparison with himself frō whom to wit by immediate revelation the word of God came after a sort to the Corinthians VVhich plainly proues that they could not bee extraordinary Prophets from whom the word of God came unto the Church as well as frō himselfe they being inspired immediately by the Holy Ghost as well as he The Christian Reader may finde besides these other reasons from this Scripture laid down by our worthy countryman M. Cartwright in his Confutation of the Rhemists Sect. 5. for the iustification of this exercise as ordinary and continuall The other Arguments in the same place of my booke to the same purpose though M. Yates could not but take knowledge of yet hath he not thought good to meddle vvith One of them only I will annex in this place word for word as there I haue set it downe It is the commandement of the Lord by the Apostle that a Bishop must be apt to teach and that such Elders or Bishops bee called as are able to exhort with sound doctrine and to conuince the gain-sayers 1. Tim. 3.2 Tit. 1.9 Now except men before they bee in office may bee permitted to manifest their gifts in doctrine and so in prayer which are the two maine works requiring speciall qualifications in the teaching Elders Acts 6.4 how shall the Church which is to choose them take knowledge of their sufficiency that with faith and good conscience they may call them and submit unto them for their guides If it be sayd that upon such occasion triall may be taken of mens gifts he that so saith grants the question but must know besides first that mens gifts and abilities should be knowne in some measure before they be once thought on for officers and secondly that there is none other use or triall of gifts to wit in and by the Church but in prophesying for every thing in the Lords house is to bee performed in some ordinance there is nothing thrown about the house or out of order in it and other ordinance in the Church saue this of prophesie is there none wherein men out of office are to pray and teach c. Lastly M. Yates in denying this liberty besides other evils reproveth the practise of all reformed Churches and of the Church of England with them It is not onely permitted as lawfull but required as necessary where liue that such as haue bent their thoughts towards the ministery should before hand use their gifts publickly in the Church and intollerable bondage it would bee thought by them to haue pastors ordained for them as all there are unto the places in which they are to minister of whose ability in teaching they had not taken former experience And not onely so but it hath been further decreed in solemne Synod that in all Churches whether springing up or grown to perfection the order of prophesie should be observed according to Pauls institution and that into that fellowship to wit of Prophets should be admitted not onely the ministers but also the Teachers and of the Elders and Deacons and even of the very common people exipsa plebe if there were any which would confer their gifts received of the Lord to the common benefit of the Church c. Harmon Synod Belg. de prophetica Ex Synodo Embdana Can. 1.2 And for England it selfe what will M. Yates say to the Common Places as they are called or Sermons as indeed they are in the Colledges not onely permitted unto but imposed upon divers who never receved order of Priesthood VVhat to such as Preach by the Bishops licence without any such order yea to all such as are ordained and called ministers but haue not actuall charge and so are like the Popish accidents in the Sacrament without a subiect Lastly it might be shewed if need were that greater liberty then he alloweth is used by divers in the Romish Church the Spirituall Egipt and house of bondage for Gods people so as the bondage of the very Hagar of Rome is not so great in this case as he would bring upon Sarah her selfe The Lord giue unto his people courage to stand for this liberty amongst the rest wherewith Christ hath made them free and unto us who enioy it grace to use the same unto his glory in our mutuall edification Amen FINIS