Selected quad for the lemma: doctrine_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
doctrine_n	age_n	church_n	tradition_n	3,033	5	9.4226	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13235	A defence of the Appendix. Or A reply to certaine authorities alleaged in answere to a catalogue of Catholike professors, called, An appendix to the Antitdote VVherein also the booke fondly intituled, The Fisher catched in his owne net, is censured. And the sleights of D. Featly, and D. VVhite in shifting off the catalogue of their owne professors, which they vndertooke to shew, are plainly discouered. By L.D. To the Rt. VVorshipfull Syr Humphry Lynde.	L. D., fl. 1624.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.	1624 (1624)	STC 23528; ESTC S120948	43,888	74

the fourth Age a sicke Woman cured and a dead Bodie restored to life by the wood of the Holy Crosse whē it was first found out by Queene Helen Ruffin Hist. lib. 10. Cap. 7. 8. Seuer Sulpit. Hist sacra lib. 2. Paul Epist 11. Niceph. lib. 8. The same myraculously multiplyed to satisfy the deuotiō of all Christiās throughout the world Paul Ep. 11. Cyr. catech 10. Many other Myracles wrought by Reliques Chrys orat cont Gentes By holy-Water Epiph. haer 30. By adoration of the Blessed Sacrament Naz. orat 11. By prayers to our Lady Nazian in S. Cyp. By the merites of Martyrs Ambros serm 91. In the fifth Age many Myracles wrought by Reliques of S. Stephen Aug. lib. 22. de Ciuit. cap. 8. By the signe of the Crosse Constantinus lib. 1. cap 22. apud Surium Tomo 4. by S. German Also Myracles wrought by S. Hierome lying on his death bed and after his decease the blinde deafe dumbe and sicke were cured some by touching some by kissing his Corpes Eusebius Cremon Ep. de morte eius In the sixt Age Myracles wrought to confirme the Sacrifice of the Masse S. Greg. l. 4. Dial. cap. 57. and Reall Presence Euag. lib. 4. Hist cap. 35. Ioan. Diac. lib. 2. de vita S. Greg. cap. 41. To confirme the honour and inuocation of Saynts Procop orat de Edificat Iustin. Euag. loco ●it Greg. de Myrac S. Martini l. 2. cap. 5. 6. 7. The vse of Images in Processions and how by one of our Blessed Ladyes painted by S. Luke a contagious Pestilence was dispelled in Rome Ciac in Greg. 1. From another Image stabbed by a Iew issued bloud Greg. Turon de glor Mart. cap. 22. Sigeb ann 560. Holy Oyle flowed from a Crosse and from an Image of our Blessed Lady curing many diseases Baron ann 564. Thus the Author of the Catalogue you receaued And the like Myracles he sheweth in the rest of the succeeding Ages As many more he might haue added aswell in the first fiue hundred yeares as after but that he thought it not necessary and therefore spared the labour to recollect them Which myraculous attestations we must eyther belieue and by consequence must also confesse those poynts of Religion confirmed by them or els we shall not only condemne all Christian Antiquity of lying and belieuing of lyes but must lykewise reiect all euidence of credibility founded vpon human testimony which is no lesse then to destroy the very foundatiōs both of Church and Common-wealth and all Society Wherefore to binde this Burden also on your backe that it may sit the closser I will winde it vp in this manner That Church whose Doctrine hath beene confirmed by Myracles in all Ages is the true Church of Christ and his Apostles But such is the Doctrine of the Catholike and not of the Protestant Church Ergo the Catholike and not the Protestant Church is the true Church of Christ and his Apostles Section IIII. In reference to a fourth poynt of the Appendix shewing the Doctrine of the Protestants to haue beene censured and condemned by the Fathers in all Ages HAd you likewise confirmed your Doctrine by such diuine Authority you should haue shewed some one point of their Religion censured by any of the Fathers or condemned by any lawfull Counsell as that Booke quoteth aboue twenty of yours notoriously opposed and condemned by them As for Example Iustification by Fayth only and Deniall of Iustice by Workes condemned in Symon Magus Iren. lib. 1. cap. 20. Extrinsecall Iustice by imputatiō only in the Gnostickes Iren. lib. 1. cap. 5. That no sinne can hurt them that are indewed with Fayth in Eunomius Epiph. haer 76. Aug. haer 64. That sinne abideth in the regenerate condemned in Proclus Epiph. haer 64. That Baptisme doth not washe away sinne condemned in the Messalians Theod lib. 4. haer fab Neglect of the ceremonies of Baptisme condemned in Nouatus Euseb lib. 6. Of holy Chrisme and the seale of our Lord which is the signe of the Crosse so called condemned in Nouatus and his Disciples Theod. lib. 3. haer fab Derisions of Exorcismes and Exufflations in Baptisme condemned in the Pelagians August de Nat. concupis lib. 2. cap. 29. The Absolution of Priests not auaileable and the abolishment of Confession condemned in Nouatus and his Disciples Socrat. lib. 4. cap. 23. Cornel. apud Euseb lib. 6. cap. 43. Theod. lib. 3. haer fab Pacian lib. aduers eos Denyall of inioyned Pennance in the Audians Theod. l. 4. haer fab Denyall of the Reall Presence condemned in Iudas Iscariot Claud. Xanct. Rep. 2. de Eucha cap. 14. Chrys hom 46. in Ioan. 6. In the Simonians and Saturnians Theod. Dial. 3. condemned likewyse by Iren. l. 4. cap. 34. post medium Impugning the reseruation of the B. Sacrament condemned in the Anthropomorphites Cyr. ad Calosyr Denyall of Oblations and Prayers for the Dead condemned in Aerius Aug. haer 53 Epiph. haer 65. Denyall of Freewill condemned in Symon Magus Clem. Roman Recog lib. 3. In the Manichees Aug. lib. cont Fortunat. Manic Ordination and Predestination to sinne and by consequence that God is the Author of sinne condemned in the Predestinate Sigeb 415. Geneb in Zosimo condemned likewise in Symon Magus Vin. Lirin adu prop. haeret nouitat cap. 34. And in Florinus Euseb lib. 5. cap. 20. That Saynts are not to be inuocated condemned in Vigilantius Hier. cont Vigil cap. 2. 3. The Images of Christ and his Saynts not to be worshipped condemned in Xenaias Niceph. lib. 16. cap. 27. Worship of Saints Reliques to be Idolatry condemned in Eustachius Socrat. l. 2 cap. 33. and condemned likewise in Vigilantius Hier. 161. Impugnation of single life and vowed Chastity and that Marriage is equall to Virginity condemned in Heluidius and Iouinian Hier. cont Heluid Iouin Disallowance of prescript Fasts condemned in Aerius Epip haer 75. August haer 53. and in Eustachius Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 33. Noe difference of Merits in Heauen condemned in Iouinian Hier. lib. 2. aduers Iouin Good vse of Riches preferred before Euangelicall Pouerty condemned in Vigilantius S. Thom. opusc 17. Denyall of one Chiefe Pastor in Earth condemned in Nouatus Euseb lib. 6. cap. 43. Denyall of vnwritten Traditions condemned in the Valentinians Tertul. lib. de Praesc hist Eccles lib. 5. cap. 16. lib. 3. cap. 36. That the visible Catholike Church might remaine in one parte and perish in the rest of the world condemned in the Donatists Aug. cont lit Petil. l. 2. cap. 108. lib. de Vnitat Eccles cap. 2. per totum librum Thus the Author of the Catalogue whereunto if I should adde out of the Protestāt Apology page 74. and page 127. and pag. 207. how insolently and impiously the most and best learned Protestant-writers doe likewise censure and condemne the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares I know you would be ashamed to reade them But this may suffice to giue the Reader iust

occasion to admire the little conscience of your late English Doctors in challenging the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares wherein if their Aduersaries might come to an indifferent and equall tryall with them the very Titles of the Fathers Books against them were sufficient to ouerthrow them Only in this place I will giue the Reader this short Notandum for the which if he desire sincerely to know and belieue the Doctrine of the Fathers he shall haue cause to thanke me When any of the holy Fathers do censure any poynt of Doctrine taxing it of Heresy or noteth it as the particuler opinion of some Heretike or reproueth it very much or wondreth at it especially if it be such a thing as euery learned Man may easily know or was necessary to be taught and that no other Father did therein oppose himself against him It is an euident Testimony that his Doctrine therein was the generall Doctrine of the Church at that tyme and ought to be so receaued of the Ages that follow Wherefore the Author of that Booke hauing shewed so many poynts of your Doctrine to haue beene so notoriously cēsured and condemned by the Auncient Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares in the Hetetikes of those tymes besides many other poynts and some of those also condemned by Fathers and Councells in after Ages whereunto you haue not answered a word it is for ought I can see or perceaue a cleare demonstration that the Fathers of those tymes were theirs and that eyther your Professors were none at all or no other then those that were condemned by them Thus all things with them are infallibly certaine easie to be knowne and most conspicuous They follow the streame and current of that Doctrine which by many knowne Successions of holy and learned Men Martyres and Bishops as it were by so many Channells they deriue from Christ and his Apostles They follow the fame and greatnes of that Church which by conuerting Countries and Nations in all Ages is become eminent and apparent aboue all other sortes of Christians like a Citty vpon a Hill aboue the Moale-hills or like the Little Stone in Daniel which growing to be a Mountaine filleth the world with it's greatnes They follow the security of those Letters-Patents which the hand of God hath signed with his owne Seale and cōmended to the world by Attestation of many Myracles in confirmation of their Doctrine And lastly they follow the infallible and powerfull Authority of that Body which by Cēsures of Doctors Decrees of Coūcells from tyme to tyme hath euer confounded all those that opposed themselues against it While you in the meane tyme without any lineall Descente from those whome you pretend to haue beene your Auncestors without the Progenie of any Gentills conuerted by you without any warrant of Gods hand or sentence of his Iudges for you do still remayne in the darcknes of your inuisible Church tossed in the Sea of Error with euery winde of new Doctrine not knowing certainly whome to follow nor what to belieue vntill at the last euen the wisest of you being wearie of seeking and desperate of finding that which they seeke come to hold all opinions probable which is in effect to belieue nothing Good Syr had you produced such a Successiō such cōuersions of Nations such Myracles and Censures in the defence of your Church as that Booke hath shewed in confirmation of theirs all zealous Protestants had been bound to haue fallen at your feete and to haue honoured you for euer But now on the other side against such weighty and massie matters such cleare and conuincing proofes as these not being able to giue in euidence so much as one Professor in euery Age nor in any Age the conuersion of any Nation or the testimony of any Myracle or the Censure of any one Father in fauour of your Religion who seeth not that insteed of reason there is nothing but passion on your part and certainly for the honour of your cause it were better to hold your peace then reply so weakely in a matter of such importance For besides all that hath beene sayd against many other most expresse Sentences of the Auncient Fathers in those very poynts which you haue chosen to touch you haue only produced a few dribling Authorities as it were on the Bye some falsely translated and some falsely cited and some in respect of other expresse words agaynst you plainely falsified that not to accuse you of a bad Conscience though you make profession to be much versed in the Fathers yet the Reader must needes think you neuer saw or read so much as those few places which your selfe haue cited but only tooke them by retaile frō others And howsoeuer though they were admitted and taken as you giue them vp yet in my poore opinion they eyther touch not your Aduersaries at all or being a little considered make rather with them then against them Which sheweth great want of iudgment in you and I verily thinke if you will be pleased to examine them with me I shall make you see it Wherefore as in the former Section soe that you may know in this also how far you are chargable I giue you the summe of your accompt in this manner The Doctrine of that Church which was condemned by the Fathers of the first fiue hundred yeares was condemned by Christ and his Apostles But the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was condemned by the Fathers of the first 500. yeares as the most and best learned Protestants themselues haue also confessed Ergo the Doctrine of the Protestant Church was likewise condemned by Christ and his Apostles Section V. Myracles defended to be a sufficient Testimony of Truth and the Doctrine of the Fathers therein declared WHerefore to begin as you doe with Myracles most certaine it is that no true Myracle can be wrought but only by him Qui facit mirabilia magna solus and therefore whēsoeuer any true Myracle is shewed or sufficiently testified vnto vs in confirmation of any point of Doctrine it is an euident proofe of the truth thereof For a Myracle in that case is the Testimony of God who speaketh by workes as men by wordes sayth S. Aug. Epist 49. quaest 6. and is the subscription as it were of his hand and seale vnto it And certainly if Myracles were no sufficiēt proofes of true Doctrine they would neuer haue beene called Signes and Testimonyes in holy Scripture God would not haue giuen Moyses power of working Myracles Exod. 4. That the People of Israel might belieue he had appeared vnto him Our Sauiour would not haue sayd the Iewes had not sinned in not receauing him if he had not done those workes which no man els had done before him Ioan. 15. And in vayne should he haue promised that Signes should follow those that belieued and haue cooperated and confirmed the Doctrine of the Apostles by them Neyther could he in Iustice haue commaunded the world

of the Appendix shewing the continuall Visibility of the Catholike Church YOur owne Doctors in your owne house professed as you know The true Church must be able to name Professors in all Ages made it the very groūd of their Argument in that Dispute Wherefore in all reason before you went about to answere the Booke which you receaued of the Catalogue of our Professors you should haue giuen another or referred vs to some booke of an other of yours And that so much the more because hitherto such a Catalogue on your side hath byn held impossible to be found made or produced And hauing beene euermore demaunded and required for a hundred yeares togeather could neuer as yet be seene nor obtayned Certainly those your Champions which were chosen by your selfe and with great expectation vndertooke to doe it when they came to the Tryall performed nothing and all that they did was but cunningly to auoyde the Question giuen in these expresse termes Whether the Protestant Church was in all Ages visible especially in the Ages before Luther and whether the Names of such visible Protestants in all Ages can be shewed and proued out of good Authors Wherein euery man may see there was nothing els demaunded but a playne Catalogue or Table of the Names of your Professors in all Ages proued by good Authors According wherunto they receaued also another paper before the meeting which there was publickly read that ech partie should produce their Catalogues out of good Authors and then interchangably by termes defend them But this Table or Catalogue of the names of our Professors seemed a Lyon in the way of your Doctors which therefore they durst not come neere nor behold but sought by diuers straines to eschew it and to turne the eyes and eares of the audience from their expectation of it As first they sought to make two Questions of the Question propounded and flying the latter part insteed of shewing the visibility of their Church they would haue proued it à Priori as they tearmed it without shewing their visible Pastors which was the poynt demaunded Secondly they deride their Aduersaries for demaunding the Names of their Professors as if they had impertinently called for a Buttry Booke of the Names of those that euer were admitted into the Church of Christ irregiously comparing the Histories of the Church wherein the Names of her Bishops Martyrs and other holy Men were carefully recorded to Buttry Bookes of Names And for the same cause calling their Aduersaries Nominalls they boasted themselues to be Realls as if their Aduersaries had demaunded no Men but only Names of Men or as if the Professors of the true Faith like Knights Errants or those of the round Table had been no reall Men at all but only names which is asmuch to say as that the Hystories of the Church were meere fables Thirdly they sought to flinch by propounding sūdry tymes diuers other Questions to be disputed Which was as it were to put vp many Hares before the Hoūds thereby to conceale the Kennell of that Fox which was then hunted Fourthly they endeauoured to diuert the Question from prouing themselues the true Church by naming the visible Professors therof in all Ages which was the thing demaunded to proue the same by assuming they held the truth that is to say in euery particular Controuersie as for Example in denying of Transubstantiation Merits of Works and the like Which was as plaine a Transition as if in case the Question had byn about Transubstantiation their Aduersaries should haue gone about to proue it by prouing themselues to be the true Church that held it For both these kinde of proofes by a remote Medium do euidently transferre the Question the one from a generall to a particular point which was your Doctors fault the other from a particuler to a generall as in the other Example Fiftly being called vpon by the Hearers and especially by the Protestants themselues which were ten to one and confided much in their owne cause to giue the Names of their Professors in all Ages they named only Christ and his Apostles with others one or two more of the first Age alone Which according to the question vndertaken they should haue proued to be Protetestāts by naming Protestants that succeeded them in all Ages following but seeking euermore to auoyde that Rocke they would haue stayed there and before they went any further vrged to proue the Professors of the first Age to be Protestants not by naming their Successors but by examining their Doctrine Which againe had been to diuerte from the matter and to runne from the generall point then in Question to all particular Controuersies Sixtly Therefore when none of these deuises could satisfy the expectation of the Hearers fearing as it seemed least according to the words of the Question and playne intention of that meeting they should haue byn vrged againe by the Hearers to set downe a full Catalogue of all Ages as once before they were importuned to doe they suddenly brake off and so departed Seauenthly My L. of Warwicke imagining perchāce that this proceeded not so much from lacke of ability as from want of due preparation on their behalfe promised a Catalogue within 2. or 3. dayes which though sought agayne by letter neuer yet appeared Eightly The Answerers themselues repayred the next day to your owne house agayne offering to deliuer their Catalogue with one hand so they might receaue yours with the other Which another stāding by whome they also tooke to be a Protestant Minister affirmed to be very reasonable and indifferent But you answered You knew their minde for that point and that they would neuer doe it before the Names of the first Age were tryed and so of the rest in order Ninthly a printed Catalogue was sent to your selfe in particuler hoping it might serue as an engine to importune and as it were to extort another from you or from your Doctours But all in vayne which maketh many much to feare that this Catalogue of your Professors will neuer be produced and consequently that your Church cannot possible be the true Church of Christ And now no maruell if some of the Hearers when they saw the Booke of The Fisher catched in his owne Net writen as it were in triumph of your victory in that Dispute compared it to those other Puritan Bookes which haue been lately printed of the great victories of the Protestants in their Warres against the Catholiks beyond the Seas whereas in truth not the Catholikes but the Protestants themselues haue beene alwayes notoriously vanquished and ouerthrowne And presuming it came forth from his owne fingers that hath the principall part therin they spare not to say that it better deserued to be called The feates and lyes of Doctor Feat-Lye then the other Title which in falshood well agreeing with the Booke it selfe in that respect alone might iustly seeme a fit lace or facing for it For besides the sundry shifts

vpon paine of damnation to belieue a thing so incredible as that Christ being Crucified was risen againe in his owne flesh and ascended into Heauen if many other Myracles which the Apostles wrought in confirmation therof had not made it euidently credible as S. Austen disputeth in his booke de Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 7. and in the former Epist. 49. quaest 6. albeit he well obserued that this kind of proofe was euer lowdly and extremely laught at by the wicked Pagans yet most true it is which there he also affirmeth that we should not belieue Christ to be risen againe frō the Dead if the Fayth of Christians did feare in this point of Myracles the laughter of Pagans Wherefore to answere those places of the Fathers which you obiect not only agaynst so many of their owne Testimonies alleaged by your Aduersary but also against Scripture and against Christian beliefe it selfe grounded vpon Myracles as hath beene noted you must further vnderstand that the world hauing beene once perswaded by myraculous operations and workes of wōder to belieue the Doctrine of the Apostles with this firme promise that it should alwayes remaine with them and their Successors the visible Pastors of the Catholike Church vniuersally spread ouer all the world it ought not to belieue any other Doctrine or any other Myracles pretended to be done in opposition to that Doctrine which by continuall Tradition hath beene receaued frō them For as there can be no after-word of God contrary to that which was first preached soe there can be no latter Myracles contrary to the testimony of those by which the world first belieued but rather as S. Paul saith If an Angell from Heauen should preach otherwise then we haue receaued we should hold him accursed This made Tertullian in the Booke you cite de Praesc cap. 44. to protest against all Myracles supposed to be done against the Tradition of the Church whereof S. Augustine in his Booke de vnit Eccles obiected by you giueth the reason yet more plainly shewing that the Catholike amplitude or vniuersality of the Church by conuersions of Nations in all Ages doth more euidently proue it to be the true Church of Christ then any other worke which is done therein for it is more manifest to sense and human reason that the cleare Prophesies of the true Church in holy Scripture are fullfilled and accomplished only in the Catholike Church which accordingly in all Ages doth visibly spread it selfe ouer all the world then it can possibly appeare that any worke of admiration is truly a Myracle surpassing the force of Nature or power of the Diuell whereof it followeth that the true Church is more manifestly knowne by the accomplishment of those promises then by the wondrous effects of any Myracles and that Myracles doe not soe well and cleerly proue any Church to be Catholike as the Church being visibly Catholike doth manifest those Myracles to be true which are approued by it Whereof it followeth againe that all Myracles which are done against it or agaynst the vnity thereof are as firmely and constantly to be reiected Which is it that he also teacheth lib. 13. cont Faust. cap. 5. and Tract 13. in Ioan. and lib. 22. de Ciuitat Dei cap. 8. obiected by you And heere by the way I beseech you to note how much Saint Ansten esteemeth the former Argument of the conuersions of Nations in all Ages according to the promises therof in holy Scripture which he maketh such an euident marke and such an infallible proofe of the true Church that he preferreth it before Myracles And for the same cause lib. 22. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 8. he spareth not to say That he who seeketh to be confirmed by Wonders now is himselfe to be wondred at in refusing to belieue that which all the world or the visible Church through the world belieueth Which your selfe also hauing obserued you may wōder at your self both in refusing to belieue what you know the visible Catholike Church for a thousand yeares through the world belieued and wherin I also wonder my selfe at your not obseruing that S. Augustine doth wonder at you in that very place wherein you suppose he agreed with you as by and by I shall make it appeare Adde in the meane tyme to that which hath beene sayd that the Myracles whereunto the holy Fathers alleadged by you forbid vs to giue credit as vnto Arguments not sufficient to proue the Truth of Religiō were eyther Myracles in apparence only and such wherewith Heretikes might easily be deceaued or so deceaue as S. Augustine speaketh in the former place vpon Ioan not such as might reasonably induce any prudēt man to belieue thē As Dreames and Visions and exauditions of Prayers like vnto those of the Donatists against whome wrote Saint Augustine lib. de Vnit. Eccl. cap. 16. Or such as were Testimonies of the Iustice and mercy of God in generall and not of Doctrine in particuler as were those whereof S. Hierome speaketh Or finally such as being wrought by wicked men exceeded not the power of the Diuell as S. Augustine obserueth lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 19. Tract 13. in Ioan. Or were not sufficiently testified but rather sayd then proued which Tertullian lib. de Praeser derideth and sayth that the power of Heretiks was nothing like but rather contrary to the power of the Apostles for their vertue was not to rayse the Dead but rather to kill the liuing literally fullfilled in Caluin Bolsec in vita Caluini who pretending by his prayer to rayse a counterfaite dead man being then truly aliue was thought to be the cause that he was instantly slaine eyther by God or the Diuell In the same sense also Epiph. lib. 1. de haer cap. 30. vrgeth Ebion to rayse some dead man c. assuring himselfe that he could not doe any true Myracle by meanes of his false Faith yea though he called vpon the name of Christ. Not so the Myracles alleaged by your Aduersary which hauing beene wrought and belieued and most authentically testified by soe many most holy most prudent and learned Witnesses in confirmation of that Doctrine which is professed against you need no more to feare the laughter of Protestants thē the Myracles of former tymes as S. Austen saith had cause to feare the laughter of Pagans And such as belieue them not may iustly feare to be condemned as Pagans for belieuing nothing To deny therefore this Doctrine of Myracles seemeth noe lesse impious then to deny Christianity it selfe and to affirme that myracles haue ceased sithence the tyme of the Apostles were noe lesse vnreasonable then to reiect all humane Testimonies and in particuler the Authority of S. Augustine himsefe in those very places obiected by you For in that very place of S. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei lib. 22. cap. 8. which you alleage against Myracles That they were necessary before the world belieued to induce it to belieue And That he that

putidius Whereas they produce the testimony of Ignatius I say nothing is more rotten or corrupted with Papistry then those trifling Epistles that go vnder his name If nothing be more rotten that is more Papisticall and contrary vnto Protestants then the Doctrine of the writings we haue of S. Ignatius the Apostles Disciple then is he asmuch for vs as S. Ignatius of Loyolae And the same M. Caluin in his Booke de participatione Christi in Coena whereas Westphalus the Lutheran alleadgeth the testimony of Ignatius cited by Theodoret in his 3. Dialogue out of his Epistle ad Smir●enses where he chargeth the Menandrian Heretikes with his Caluinian hereticall Doctrine Non confitentur Eucharistiam esse carnem Saluatoris nostri Iesu Christi they do not belieue the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Sauiour Iesus Christ Caluin I say not without disdayne frameth this answere What ingenuity is this to cite the Epistle of Ignatius which euen an ordinary Friar or Monke would hardly acknowledge as his owne They know that haue read those toyes that they contayne nothing but tales of Lent of Chrisme of Tapers of Fasting and festiuall dayes which through superstition and ignorāce crept into the Church after Ignatius his dayes Thus Caluin speakes of the Epistle cited by Theodoret by Eusebius by S. Hierome for the Epistle of Ignatius So that as I sayd if the Religion of S. Ignatius the Disciple of S. Iohn be tryed by his writings which all antiquity acknowledge as his he is found euen by the confession of Protestants as very a Papist as was S. Ignatius of Loyola to wit more then any ordinary Friar or Monke What desperation then was it of Doctour Featly to what a Non-plus was he brought when he was forced to giue vnto Ignatius and his writings the first place after the Apostles in the Catalogue of Caluinian Professors For this Author can no more be coupled togeather with Caluin in the same Religion and Church then light can agree with darknes Christ with Beliall Which besides what hath beene sayd may appeare in the Preface of his Epistle to the Romans by the great Encomium he maketh of that Church Quae praesidet in Regione Romanorum which presidence must needs be vnderstood of the Church of Rome aboue other Churches Thirdly to draw to an end of this point Tertullian seemeth to proue that our Sauiour gaue his true body because he professed That with a desire he desired to eate the Pasche as his owne for that it had beene vnseemely that God should haue longed after the flesh of the Iewish Lambe or quid alienum or after any thing els that was anothers But if he had desired to eate bread with his Apostles he had not desired to eate his owne but that of another and it had beene no lesse vnseemely that God should haue longed to eate the bread of another with his Apostles then to eate flesh of another with the Iewes Lastly if this sentence of Tertullian be obscure it must be expounded by the other place before alleadged where he sayth without any ambiguity that our flesh is fed with the body and bloud of Christ For it were agaynst all reason that the plaine words thereof should be expounded by this other place which seemeth to contayne two contrary senses and therefore is often alleadged by vs agaynst our Aduersaries and by our Aduersaries against vs. As concerning Gelasius cont Eutichem the last Author that you alleage I wil be content that Chemnitius a learned Lutheran and as great an Enemy of Transubstantiation as your selfe be iudge betweene vs whether that place doth fauour it or doth sound any way for it his words are these Examen part 2. pag. 88. Gelasius sayth that the Wine and the Bread of the Eucharist by the work of the holy Ghost doe passe or conuert into the diuine Substance of the Body and Bloud of Christ and verily these words do seeme to sound very strongly for the establishing of Transubstantiation For that which passeth into another substance and that by the working of the holy Ghost certainely doth seeme not to remaine in his former Substance If you had seene this place or if passion had not blinded you had it beene possible you should haue cited Gelasius against Transubstantiation which by the iudgmēt of such a professed Enemy thereof doth make so strongly for it Section XIII The Conclusion of this Treatise THus much concerning the Authories of the Fathers alleaged by you partly false cited which may be pardoned partly falsified which seemeth to touch your Honour and all of them eyther wholy peruerted or far from the matter which cōming from a Knight sheweth an excusable ignorance in this kind of learning But against the substance of the booke you receaued as I haue shewed in the 4. first Sections of this Treatise you haue answered nothing Now therefore good Syr if according to your Degree you will doe your owne selfe Knights seruice indeed set to your shoulders and vnderprop your Church as Atlas was faigned to support the heauens for as you haue heard and seene in the former Sections it is so mainely battered with fower such peeces of great Ordinance that vnlesse it be mightly sustained the sound of thē alone is sufficiēt to shake it downe and ouerthow it 1. Their visible Succession in all Ages 2. Their Conuersions of Nations in all Ages 3. Myracles in confirmation of their Doctrine in all Ages 4. Censures of Fathers and Councells for the condemnation of yours in all Ages For 1. your Doctors did but beg the Question when they made clayme to Christ and his Apostles and began at the wrong end making that their Argument which should haue beene their conclusion was to be proued by nominating Protestants to succeed them in all Ages and especially in the Ages before Luther according to the words of the Question which they vndertooke to answere What foule shame and extreme confusion is it to your Cause when being vrged to name or bring forth but one Protestant in 500. or 1000. yeares before Luther you are eyther constrained to answere it is not necessary or els supposing the ignorance of those that heare you yow are inforced to cloth your nakednesse with the raggs of Wyckliffe Waldo and other such accursed Heretikes all of them holding some points with your Aduersaries against you and being for other grosse heresies noe lesse detested by them then condemned by you Rather let the bowells of Oxford Librarie be ripped vp and ransacked from end to end Or els neuer leaue digging vntill you haue wrought your selues into those caues where Protestants liued for so many hundred yeares to find some Volumes some Commētaries or some Records of the Actes and Gestes of your Auncestors If nothing can be found in Europe recommend the matter to the East Indian Cōpany or to the Westerne Voyagers to seeke and search among furthest Nations for Protestants lineally descended from Christ his Apostles