And what think you now Misrepresenter tell me your Opinion was the Protestant Religion Anciently and Generally profess'd and practis'd in these Primitive Times when Constantine govern'd both the Western and Eastern World Do's the Church in his time practising as you have now seen acknowledg'd by unquestionable Authorities look like a Protestant Church If you know what 't is to be a Protestant tell me your mind Was Constantine and his Church Protestants or no Misrepresent You have hunted out for all the Superstâ—tions Errors and Oversights of that Age and now ask Whether the Professors were Protestants And I answer you They were Protestants as to the Doctrine of the Gospel and Creed which they profess'd tho' not as to their Oversights and Errors Represent That is to say in plain English They were Protestants as the Papists now are Protestants Any honest man by your appeal to and Pretext of Reformation according to the Primitive Times would have expected to have found a Protestant Religion profess'd and practis'd in those times as 't is now here in this Nation by Law establish'd And yet when we have taken a Prospect of those Primiâ—ive Ages we find the Christians then living Professors of no other Protestancy than such as is seen practis'd at this day in their Majesties Chappels at White-Hall Somerset house and St. James's and that I think is a Protestancy which is call'd Popery Misrepresent Why in our Reformation we are no more oblig'd to take in the Errors of Constantine 's time than those Corruptions we found in the time of Henry 8. No we Reform according to the Purity of the Gospel and have no other Rule than that of the Word of God Instructing and Directing us And as for all Superstitions they are alike rejected by us tho' some have Antiquity to plead in their behalf Represent Then I see however you pretend your Reformation has reduc'd Christianity to that state as 't was profess'd in the Primitive Times Yet when we come to look into those times thinking to find a Flourishing Uncontrol'd Protestancy Generally and Publickly Profess'd we are still as far to seek for 't as before and all that appears is the Doctrine of the Creed and Gospel profess'd but together with what you call the Errors and Superstitions of Popery so that to be a Protestant according to the Primitive Times is nothing else but to be a Papist Certainly this must be a very surprising disappointment to some to find Constantine the Great and Eusebius his Historian to be such kind of Popish Protestants as these who yet are set down by your Dr. Swadlin as the Ancient Protestants according to whose Faith and Practice the present Reformation was regulated and against whose Positions says he Ans 11. if we hold any thing name it we answer it prove it we yield So that let me tell you By what I can see as yet when a man has taken the pains to look back to those Primitive Ages he can be no more satisfied where the Protestant Religion as 't is now Reform'd was in the time of Constantine than when Luther began the Reformation but after all his search he must rest contented either with the Plain Mans Reply of its being Home where or other or else with the same It may be as was given to the Parishioner It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassin and Egyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud cover'd with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Famil Discourse betwixt a Minister and Parishioner p. 14. ADVERTISEMENT THis is to give notice That this last Week were sound here in London several Good Protestant Lies concerning Flying Crabs seen in the Chappel at Somerset-house and of the Parish Church of St. James's in the Fields being undermin'd by the Papists and in danger of being demolished by Fire-Balls If the Right Owners will appear they shall be restor'd to them without Cost or Charges and if any will produce them they shall be well rewarded for their Pains Publish'd with Allowance Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine Represent IF you remember at our last meeting Misrepresenter we were looking back into the Primitive Times to see if we could find there the Protestant Religion as 't is now reform'd Generally Profess'd and Practis'd amongst the Christians of that Purer Age. But we lost our labour and all the Hopes You came big with ended in nothing but a disappointment Misrepresent 'T would be a Miracle indeed to find it as long as you have the carrying and management of the Light by which we are to make the Discovery Represent A short memory makes you Unreasonable Have you forgot so soon the very Means and Method by which we enter'd upon our Search were of your own Choice at least by approbation and consent Our business was to make enquiry after the Protestant Religion We agreed to examine the Religion Practis'd in Constantine's time who as your Dr. Swadlin says was a Protestant and in whose time according to your Divines the Protestant Religion was generally profess'd We took an account of the Religion of that Age from Eusebius a Protestant Professor too if you credit Dr. Swadlin and some other Modern Protestants The Translation of Eusebias we made use of was done by a Protestant approv'd and publish'd by Protestants and Printed at Cambridge Anno 1683. a Protestant Vniversity what possibly could be fairer done and more to your advantage And yet after all instead of meeting in those times with the Protestant Religion as now Reform'd we were got in the middle of Good Catholics Professing and Practising their Religion receiv'd from the Apostles pure as yet and uncorrupted as your Fulk and Calvin confess and such as you under the specious Pretext of Reformation have since made Odious and Criminal and done your best to hiss it out of the world Misrepresent The Reformers have preserv'd the Religion of those times Inviolable and have only labour'd to purge Christianity of the Errors then or since that time brought in to deform it Represent This is the proper Mark of the Beast Never a Reformer yet even from Arius to this Day but what has set up his Standard against Pretended Errors and Innovations And this is the stamp they set upon every thing that does not sute with their Humour Fancy or Interest The Reformers of the Reformation go by the same Rule and such as Reform agen upon those that Reform the Reformation still pursue this Method till at last they have
expected he should know or deliver truly the Doctrine of our Church who is so unhappy as not to know his own Mind But in one breath desires to be inform'd and Vows to follow wheresoever Truth â—or Charity shall lead him and in the very next without condition or reserve desires rather to die than to move one step from where he stands No this coming with Vow'd Docility in one hand and sturdy Presumption in the other is no good Argument of Sincerity and Honesty the qualities he so eagerly pretends to and ungroundedly questions in me Misrepresent Well but he has prov'd beyond the possibility of Reply that the Papists are on the Uncharitable side and Protestants on the Charitable out of your own Authors and your Charitable Doctrine to be new Popery Represent You have his Word for 't p. 8. But any besides a Layman will call it only a Say-so instead of a Proof His Protestant Charity which he even boasts of is the granting Salvation to Papists upon no other score than Invincible Ignorance and for this he thinks them p. 6. Charitable to a high degree And yet this is the very same Charity Papists have for Protestants the allowing of Salvation possible for such as through invincible Ignorance remain separate from the Church being a common opinion of the Modern and Antient Schoolmen And all those who pronounce so severely against Protestants 't is against Protestants remaining such as he words it p. 8. that is Obstinately and Pertinaciously continuing in Error and Schism in which circumstances Papists too are allow'd no claim to Salvation by Protestants Now where 's the Contradictions and the two sorts of Popery he brags of p. 8. Come Misrepresenter I look upon your Friends put to a hard shift when they begin to talk of New Popery They have been making the Papists odious these hundred Years for their Vncharitableness to Protestants and now the Disguise begins to wear off and the Papists appear as Charitable as Protestants nothing can serve to amuse the people and hinder their seeing the delusion but the noise of New Popery This may do with some but methinks a Sincâ—â—e Layman who desires to be led into all Truth p. 5. might be glad to find Men better than he thought them and not seek for one disguise to palliate another If his mind be tinctur'd with the Blood that runs in his Veins p. 11. yet assure him a Friend of his wishes heartily 't wou'd flow something Cooler and cause in him a more Even Pulse than to require as he does p. 12 nothing less than an Infallible Certainty to better his Opinion of the Papists whilst yet a Fallible Perswasion will content him for all the rest of his Religion Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whil'st Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity Misrepresent YOur last attempt of Proving the Scriptures to be as various in the Heads of Protestants as there are Heads amongst them was very Bold and I am perswaded now you are Cooler you 'l disown the Assertion Represent What I said was to lay before you the Reason why amongst the Catholics the Reading of the Bible is not promiscuously allow'd the Vulgar And to that end I shew'd you that the Ordinary People in all Nations being for the most part Vnlearned and Vnstable wheresoever the Canvassing the Scripture is freely permitted them without exception they generally understand it several ways and consequently what is the Scripture to Them is Multiplied and made as Numerous as their different Conceptions and Imaginations of it And now I 'll go farther with you for 't is not only thus in several People but even the same Person many times has the Faculty of Multiplyiâ—g the Word of God. For how many are to be found amongst the Vulgar who according to their different Humours as their Interest changes according to the different Impressions they receive from Confidents especially such as have gain'd their good Opinion espouse different Doctrines and Perswasions and run through as many Sects as there are Divisions in the Nation And yet in all their Windings they still follow as they imagine the Scriptures always guiding themselves by what they think the Word of God evidently speaks to them Don't you see how to these same Persons the Word of God is not always the same It alters according to Seasons and Times and 't was one Word of God directed them the last year another this and it may be another before the next So that tho' it be always the same Vnchangeable in their Hands as to the Letter yet it often changes in their Heads as the Meaning Misrepresent This is a fine Whim to undermine the Authority of the Scriptures But say what you will the Word of God is Plain Easie and Clear and God has given to every one Reason enough to Understand it the Reading it is comfortable the Following it a Duty And 't is an injury of the highest nature to deprive any tho the meanest Soul of so considerable a Blessing Represent If it be so Plain and Easie as you say how comes it there 's so little agreement in the Vnderstanding it How are there so many Different and Contrary Divisions Sects and Perswdsions in this One Nation How comes it that even in the Essentials of Christianity concerning the Trinity Incarnation the Divinity of Christ the Sacrament Baptism the Holy Catholic Church the Communion of Saints the Forgiveness of Sins the Resurrection of the Flesh c. there has been and at present is so great diversity amongst those that read the Scripture The business is you are for setting up every mans Private Reason to be Judge of Scripture If you have seen the Answer to the Protestant Plea for a Socinian you 'l find there p. 26. he points it out for the Mark of a Right Socinian to make Reason the Rule of the Scriptures Such a one says he makes Reason the Rule of that Rule And are not you far worse in this than the Rankest Socinian in the World whilst with him you do not make Common Reason the Measure of that Rule but every mans Private Reason which when put to the Test proves in Thousands and Thousands to be nothing better than Passion Prejudice Interest Imagination Guessing or Phancy Don't you find by experience there 's no such Trivial Proposal made but presently the Company 's divided there 's Head against Head Reason against Reason and this tho' the concern be but of Hay or Straw or the most obvious in the World Don't you see again that almost every Man's Reason is different as their Capacity Parts Education Temper Inclination Impressions are different
Authority of the Church as being to decide Controversies of Faith Art. 20. and this is not to ordain or enforce any thing to be believ'd that is against the Scripture But whether that which it decides be against or according to Scripture this every man is to decide again by his own private Reason They maintain the Authority of General Councils But because these may err Art. 21. their Decrees have neither Strength nor Authority unless it may be declar'd that they be taken out of Holy Scripture But whether de facto they be taken out of Scripture or no this every Private Man must judge for himself And this Dr. Burnet asserts positively in his Exam. of Meth. p. 82. The Principle of Protestants with relation to the majority even in a General Council is That when any Doctrines are establish'd or condemn'd upon the Authorities of the Scriptures those who differ from them and do think that the Council misunderstood the Scriptures are bound to suspect themselves a little and to review the matter with greater application Yet if they are requir'd to profess that they believe opinions which they think false if they were never so inconsiderable no man ought to go against his Conscience And if any Synod of Protestants has decreed any thing contrary to this in so far they have departed from the Protestant Principles But the whole matter is more fully express'd by the Author of the Discourse before mentioned Concerning a Judge of Controversy Who p. 11. at the bottom clears it thus If you ask whose Judgment ought to take place the Judgment of the Church or of every private Christian I answer says he and mark it The Judgment of the Church of necessity must take place as to external Government to determine what shall be profess'd and practis'd in her Communion and no private Christian has any thing to do in these matters But when the Question is What is Right or Wrong True or False in what we may obey and in what not Here every Private Christian who will not believe without understanding nor follow his Guides blindfold must judge for himself and 't is as much as his Soul is worth to judge right Don't you see here there 's no Authority so Great and Safe amongst them but what is to be subject to the Censure of every Private Christian And tho' there be the Name of such a thing as a Church yet let that Command prescribe and ordain what it will to be receiv'd as the Truth and Faith of Christ 't is not That is to be obey'd or believ'd but being esteem'd as a piece of Formality not to be relied on every Man when he thinks fit must set himself up above Church and Authority and ee'n judge for himself Is not here every Controversy left to the decision of the Private Spirit And under the Notion of a Church a gate open'd to all the Fanaticisms and Quakerisms in the World By the Creed all Christians are bound to Believe the Holy Catholic Church And St. Paul Heb. 13. v. 7. commands all to Obey and Submit to those that are over them and this not only as to External Government but likewise as to Truth and Belief and therefore says he v. 7. Whose Faith follow But here you see tho' your Divines maintain the Authority of a Church yet there 's no Obligation on any Members of submitting to it as to any Point of Faith They must acknowledge it indeed as to the Governing or Politic part But as to the Christian or Believing part here every Christian as to what he is to obey and what not is to judge for himself And pray now what do's all this end in but the Private Spirit Can it desire any fairer Plea than this Certainly this their Church were it the Catholic Church the Ground and Pillar of Truth 't would not thus be commendably left to be over-rul'd by every Private Man's Reason There would not be this liberty for every one to run astray from it by preferring their own Judgment before the Decision and Judgment of the Church 'T was said heretofore and we know by whom Let him that do's not hear the Church he as a Heathen and a Publican But now it seems That Man alone is as Blind as a Heathen or Publican who do's not rather hear himself than the Church I wonder how long this has been so Misrepresent I le warrant you now you have got in your Head the Question Where was the Protestant Church before Luther But don't reproach this Church and perswade the World she is as yet but in her Infancy If you have seen a Book entit'led The Antiquity of the Protestant Religion You 'l see it there prov'd That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation p. 1. Represent You have brought in this Question now by Head and Shoulders But since 't is staâ—ted satisfie me so far as to let me know where this Church was before the Pretended Reformation In what Country or Nation was it Visible Whether in the Eastern or Western World We have a fair Historical account of it from Luther's time to our days But I would willingly know where it was in all those Fifteen Hundred years from Christ's Ascension to the coming of the Prophet Luther as he is styl'd by Slydan Misrepresent Why this Author of the Antiquity of the Protestant Religion asserts it positively and proves That the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profest in the Christian World before the Reformation And sure you that pretend to History and Religion cannot be ignorant Where that Religion was which was Anciently and Generally profest amongst Christians throughout the World. Represent Certainly then This Man must have had some extraordinary Revelation or made some New Discovery For the former Protestants who liv'd nearer Luthâ—r's time knew nothing of this Religion being Generally profess'd â—oannes Regius lib. Apol p. 176 Bishop Jewel Apol. p. 4. c. 4. d. 2. and Mr. Parkins Eâ—poâ— Cre p. 400. confeâ—s that before the days of Luther and Zuingliâ— the Church viz. Protestant was Invisible unknown unheard of that for the space of many hundred years an Vniversal Apostacy overspread the Whole face of the Earth and this Church was not then visible to the World. So that by what I see Authors don't agree in this matter And then besides this in a late Famillar Discourse betwixt a Minister and his Parishioner The Question being propos'd p. 14 Where was your Religion as it is now reform'd when Luther began his Reformation As to this particular the Minister answers It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassine and Aegyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud covered with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Misrepresent Well and what then Represent Nothing but that I see 't is very hard to be found some find it Generally profess'd
have appear'd some Warm Doctor a Dr. J. S. who from the Text Revel 11. 5. I will come unto thee quickly and will remove thy Candlestick out of his Place except thou repent would have thus pour'd forth the Spirit of Reformation upon them We have no Apprehâ—nsions that either Mahometanism or Pagâ—nism will come into these Kingdoms it is another kind of Removal of our Candlestick that we have reason to fear it is another Religion nigher at hand that is most likely to Displace our Candlestick You all know what Religion I mean it is Popery that most threatens us It is that Restless Busie Religion that has made so much Disturbance in Christendom that has always been and is still so Active by all Means Just or Vnjust by Fraud or Force to insinuate it self into all Places It is this we ought to have most Apprehensions of May God so inspire you that by your Means as effectual Provision as Possible may be made both for the keeping out that Foreign Religion which so little serves the Ends of Christianity and so much disserves the Interâ—st both of King and People and for the more firm Establishment of the Protestant Religion Or in case of this Doctor 's failing would there not have been invited another as Dr. J. T. who would have put the Fathers in mind That it is believ'd by many and not without cause that the Pope and his Faction are the Antichrist That Popery is as bad or worse than Infidelity That the Old Heathen Philosophers were better Teachers of Religion than the Papists That Tully Plutarch and Seneca were much Honester and more Christian Casuists than any that I know of in the Church of Rome That therefore They would make a Lasting Provision for the Security of our Peace and Religion against all the Secret Contrivances and open Attempts of These Sons of Violence Can you think Misrepresenter that Popery having thus overspread the Earth the Light of the Gospel being obscur'd as Mr. Napper says upon Revel p. 191. by the Roman Antichrist himself in the Time of these First Four Councils there could be so many Protestants assembled Bishops Divines and others as you say there were in those councils and yet not one word of Encouragement for the rooting out of Popery and filling their Heads with Fears and Jealousies Come for my part I cannot tell how to imagine this possible And therefore unless as you have shewn me what you call the Corruptions of Popery in those Times so you can likewise shew me there were some Means taken for the preventing the Growth of them by those Fathers I shall never bring my Reason to believe that those Fathers were Protestants Misrepres Means I don't question but there were Means us'd for the Redress of those Evils but we are not upon that Point yet You are only speaking of a Sermon Introductory to those Councils Repres Well and can you shew me from any of the Ancient Historians that there were any such Inspiriting Sermons at those Times If you cannot produce any I shall be apt to believe that either the Preachers then were no Protestants or else that the Fathers were none For you and I that know what Protestancy and Popery is must needs conclude so Misrepres You may e'en drop this Point for I don't pin my Faith upon such Sermons I know indeed as the World goes now there are some who cannot hold their Eyes open at a Sermon but when the Thunder of Papist and Popery breaking from the Pulpit awakens them But 't is likely 't was not so in old Times The Christians heretofore I believe had a greater Portion of the Spirit of Peace and Charity they were contented with following their Text and knew to spend their Glass without the help of these Popular Excursions It may be this Modish Divinity is New taken up only since the making a Faction and Party has crept into the Pulpit with the Gospel But what then The Protestant Religion was Anciently Profess'd and I question not the Fathers of those First Councils were Protestants tho' I can produce no Instance of such Parliamentary Sermons as you speak of Repres Thou art Good-natur'd sometimes Misrepresenter and so Ingenuous as to shame the Devil and speak Truth In Return I le let fall this Point and will enquire no farther after Protestant Sermons in those Primitive Times for the Direction of the First Councils We 'll pass over therefore to the Councils themselves and Examine what kind of Christians the Fathers there assembled were Misrepres Yes this will be to the Purpose upon this Point turns the whole weight of the Controversie if it don't appear they were Protestants I must needs own I have deluded many and that I really am what you call me a Misrepresenter Repres Don't you remember I shew'd you at our last Meeting that the Pope and Those Fathers were too well agreed to be Protestants Misrepres Yes yes I have heard this already The Popes were Good Prelates in those Days they had not then the Mark of the Beast in their Forehead and so that Concludes nothing Repres If They had not then the Mark of the Beast 't was because there were then no such things as Protestants to set it on The Popes had at that Time all Christian Churches Subject to them as Mr. Napper confesses upon the Revelations Nay he says that the Pope's Usurpation and Lording it over all Christian Churches began before the Year of Christ 316 which was before the Time even of the First General Council of Nice held An. 325. Now since for this very Vsurpation as they call it the Modern Protestants Luther's Offspring have set Horns upon the Pope and made him Antichrist if he was not so reputed or esteem'd by the First General Councils there being then the same Reason I must needs conclude 't was because they were then no Protestants You your self cannot deny but if Those Protestants who now say that the Antichristian and Papistical Reign began in those Days had They then liv'd and been Protestants would have said the same then as they do now And since instead of such Opprobrious and Infamous Titles the Fathers then shew'd him the highest Respect and Veneration my Reason assures me Those Fathers were no Protestants Misrepres This is nothing but a Dry Repetition and I am weary of it Advance a Step or I le e'en be gone and leave you Gaping without a Witness Repres Let 's proceed then to the Canons and Decrees of those First Councils And here I demand of you Do you find any Canons or Decrees made by the Fathers of those Councils in opposition to the Doctrines and Tenets which you now condemn as Popish Errors but were then Taught and Practis'd Misrepres What Errors do you mean Repres If you remember Calvin Beza Dr. Field Whitaker the Centurists and other Protestant Writers Censure the greatest part of the Primitive Fathers who liv'd either before or in the
Time of the First Four General Councils for Teaching and Believing many Points which are of late rejected sor Superstitions of Popery and Inventions of Men Such as attributing Primacy to the See of Rome Tradition Invocation of Saints Honouring the Relicks of Martyrs Prayer for the Dead the Sacrifice of the Mass Transubstantiation c. These and many other such Doctrines Modern Protestants own to have been Taught by the Fathers of the Primitive Church in the Time of the First Councils And now I ask of you Whether the Prelates there assembled did by Canons or Decrees make any Provision against these Doctrines Misrepres I confess I don't find any Canons they made upon this matter Respres How can I believe then that the Reverend Bishops and Divines of those Councils were Protestants You are not ignorant how ill these Doctrines suit with the Protestant Temper You know They look upon the Intercession of Saints as injurious to the Mediation of Christ and Idolatrous The Pope's Primacy is with them an Antichristian Usurpation Honouring Relicks is Superstitious Praying for the Dead an Idle Devotion The Belief of Transubstantiation Unreasonable The Mass an Evacuating of the Sacrifice of the Cross Now can you perswade me that the Fathers of those First Councils could be Protestants and yet let these Doctrines and Practices so Detestable as they must be in their Opinion pass without any Condemnation and Uncensur'd No certainly The Fathers of those Times were more Zealous than so They were Watchful against all Novel Opinions such as were contrary to the Receiv'd Doctrine of the Church and there were no sooner any started tho' in Parts remote from them but they presently took the Alarm and by Writing Preaching Disputing Synods National and Oecumenical did make a most Vigorous Opposition and withstand them And such as continu'd Obstimate in their Errors with Endeavours of drawing Numbers after them and Disturbing the Peace of the Church seldom or never escap'd without the Mark of Heresie or Schism When I consider this State of the Primitive Church happily Flourishing under the Conduct and Care of so many Eminent Prelates and Pastors no less Zealous in Defending their Charge from the Assaults of Innovators and Vpstart Opinions than in Preserving Them in the Receiv'd Doctrines from the Apostles I cannot imagine how to Condemn them assembled in Full Council of such Gross Stupidity or Inexcusable Connivance as they must of necessity be guilty of in passing over so Considerable an Evil which had then overspread the greatest part of the Church And yet if I am to take Them for Protestants they of necessity fall under these Censures in not Reproving or Condemning those Popish Doctrines which as we are assur'd from Modern Protestants in the Times of those Councils had prevail'd upon such great Numbers of the Christian World. And Therefore since as you confess They made no Provision by Decrees or Canone against those Doctrines I am throughly perswaded They were no Protestants Misrepres Then I le warrant you you take them all for Good Papists Repres I must take 'em for Papists or Nothing For I am confident none but Papists could see so much Popery Taught and Practis'd as We have seen from Eusebius and Others under Constantine and in the Time of the First Four Councils and yet pass it by in Silence without Censure or Reproof Your Friend therefore who tells the World that the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally Profess'd would do well to Explicate to the Curious what kind of Protestancy that was heretofore which did agree so well with So much Popery If he do's not clear this Point well many others I believe besides my self will begin to suspect that the Fathers and Prelates assembled in those First Councils of the Primitive Church were rather Papists than Protestants Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XV. The Appeal of Protestants to the Primitive Fathers shewn Injurious to Protestancy from the Concessions of Protestant Writers Luther the Apostle of the Reformation disclaims the Doctrine of the Fathers as not being for his purpose of Reforming Misrepresenter I HAVE a Scruple this Morning that I have given you too much room to look for the Protestant Religion in the Primitive Times If I had Confin'd your Search within a Narrower compass of years you had discover'd more Protestancy and less Popery Repris I have not taken in more Years than you agreed to nor more than are generally allow'd by Protestants You know 't is the Bulwark of the Pretended Reformers to make their Appeal to the Belief and Practice of the Primitive Church They acknowledge their Separation from the Church of Rome as it was in the Time of their Reformation and they justifie themselves for so doing because the Church of Rome as they pretend had faln from the Purity of Doctrine profess'd by the Primitive Church into Gross Errors Superstition and Idolatry And therefore since the Church of Rome would not Reform it self 't was necessary They should Separate from it so to Reform the Abuses and Corruptions that had crept in upon Christianity and bring it back to that State of Purity in which it had been practis'd by their Forefathers of the Primitive Church Misrepres Yes this is the True Reason of the Protestants Separating themselves from the Church of Rome and therefore I don't doubt but the Religion as here Establish'd amongst us by Law is the same as was heretofore Generally profess'd by the Primitive Church But the Question is How many Years the Primitive Church continu'd Pure and Uncorrupt that is Protestant as we are at this Day For I see you have look'd back into some Ages Past which I took for Protestant and there has appear'd then so much Popery publickly Exercis'd and Profess'd that I have some reason to suspect that the Christians of those Times were rather Papists than Protestants and that you have been something insincere in this Point and not made your Enquiry so far back as you ought Repres 'T is your Interest rather to suspect Me than the Weakness of Your own Cause But tell me How many Years did you allow me wherein to search for the Protestant Religion in the Past Ages of the Primitive Church Misrepres I gave you the Compass of the first Five hundred Years after Christ And in this I a am sure there was no Mistake of mine For Our Dr. Morton says Prot. Ap. p. 354. that It has been the Constant Prosession of Protestants to stand to the Judgment of Antiquity for the continuance of the First Four hundred Years and more in all things And ib. 573. be says that Protestants are so far from suffering the limitation of the First 440 Years that they give the Romanists the Scope of the First Five or Six hundred Years Bishop Jewel too our Champion and Apologist makes his Challenge