of the knowledg to read of an audible voice and the other from the especiall gyftes of interpretatiō of doctrine exhortation giuen by the holy ghost as peculierly for the Church-ministerye Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after y e reading of Demostenes oration O what if you had heard him selfe speake it He would not haue maruayled y ◠God hath attributed the first fruits or rather first spring of our fayth to y e liuely preaching of the Worde James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing Mat. 13 to begetting James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This trueth that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach as it is moste manifest and cleare by the Scriptures so it hath witnesse from the Church euen when it was fallen almost to decay but specially when-soeuer any worthye seruice of God florished as may appeare by their decrees canons sentences following few only of many being sparingly takē for breuities sake Concil Carthag 4. in y e rules of examining a Bish according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned it is required to be sought If he be learned if he be instructed in the law of God If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae warie in the sence of the scriptures si in dogmatibus exercitatus it he be exercised in doctrines opinions or sentences meaning of all sortes that he may be able to put difference And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproouing a superstition in Ministers in squaring their outwarde attire to the phrase of certaine places of Scripture We haue learned sayth he that some Priestes or Ministers of God do serue or giue them-selues to a superstitious kinde of seruice rather then to the puritye of the minde and faith who beeing cloked hauing their loynes girt beleeue that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture not by the spirit but by the letter And hauing shewed that we must not do the thinges but that which is ment by such speaches he saith further We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrin not by garments Now when they haue no more soundnes in faith and abilitiy to admonishe then is requyred in Christians how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine Concil Toletan 4. Ignorance the mother of all errours is especially to be auoyded in Priestes or Ministers who haue taken on them the dutey of teaching among the people of God For Paul doth commaund Priestes or Ministers to read the Scriptures often saying to Timothy attend to reading exhortation let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures and let them meditate the Canons let all their worke consist in diuine preaching and doctrine and let them edifie all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works And Chriso 1. Tim 5. 17 For this is much for the edification of the Church and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach for this cause with the rest with this that they should be giuen to hospitality they shoulde be moderate that they should be vnblameable he also numbreth this saying he must be didacticos apt to teach for this he is sayde to be a Teacher Which testimony declareth euidently that aptnesse to teach is no more an Idaea then all the rest specified by the Apostle So August Homilia de pastor Hauing prooued at large all the dueties of preaching to lye vppon the Pastours of the Church sheweth how by the Apostle they must not only preach but be instant in it saying For here the Apostle sayeth preach the Worde be instant in season and out of season To whom in season To whom out of season In season to those who will out of season to those who will not And thus much for an vnpreaching ministerie Ministers fallen to idolatrie from their Ministerie ought not to be receiued to their ministerie HItherto hath beene handled the principall cause of the Ministery as it were the proper glorye of the man of God that he be apt to teach Now it is meet in the next place to maynetayne also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth that Ministers fallen to idolatry ought not to be admitted vnto the ministerie of the Gospell by anye ordinary authoritie of the Church that so the glorye which God hath appoynted vnto the ministerie might be mayntayned both for sufficiencie and the authoritie which they should gaine by being voyde of all suspicion of inconstancie in that religion which he shoulde deliuer with much full perswasion of the truth to liue and die in the same and to be willing to deale their owne liues for their flocke For notwithstanding it must be true that aboue all thinges the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heede that they doe not in confidence of their strength or with a spice of free-will as Peter did boldly promise such constancie yea when we are by Christe his voyce admonished of our owne frailtie yet in all humblenesse trembling and feare resting vpon God his promise to minister strength to the weake and courage to the faint hearted they ought as the chiefe captaines of the Lordes army and conductors of his host not onely be free from probable suspicion of such foule cowardlinesse yea of execrable high Treason seeing such doe not onely flee before the enimies of God but vnto them and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy seruice into the hands of the diuell his sworne enemy but ought also to be examples patterns of al readines to suffer for the truth His wordes for the impugning of this manifest truth are The contrary of this Doctrine of his may bee prooued by the example of Aaron who was an Idolater or an abbettor of idolatry in the golden Calfe and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood Likewise by Peter whose reuolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christe was no lesse heinouse then the sinne of our idolatrouse priests who for the moste part sinned but of ignorance in that generall blindenesse Likewise Augustine afterward a famous Byshoppe was by the space of many yeares a detestable Manachy And after he alleageth many testimonies of the Concil Meldens the glo out of the Nicen and out of Leo. And Augustin that Heretickes as namely Nouatians and Donatistis returning from their Heresies may be receiued And out of Viret that From Popery men maye be receiued to the Gospell Peter Viret in dialog la discipline eccles des eglises reformes du royaulme de Fraunce pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations although they carrye some shew to him who vnderstandeth not the cause yet to him that shal but once consider of the question as it is before with out ambiguitie set downe it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the
true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y â— words of y â— answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the CongregatioÌ„ with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distintâ—t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they
matter of the Sacrament of the vbiquiti other points may be reiected of y e papists and their reason must be held as good because they haue as learnedly and truly gathered our diuersities betweene our selues inconueniences following vppon our Doctrine as this man hath doone in the matter of Ecclesiasticall Discipline Next vnto this fowle iniury done vnto religion his iniury done vnto so many worthy lerned men which haue so well deserued of the Church of God nay his inuiry done vnto all the reformed Churches in setting them together by the eares in slaundering them to like of vphold and maintain such a gouernment as hath no witnesse of the Scriptures or ancient times thogh they main tayne it by both such as bringeth with it not onely a maze and labarinth vnto all common-weales but which is at flat ennemity with Princes ouerthroweth their gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes and by sudden alteration turneth euery thing vpsie-downe Which reproch though it be so apparaunt as his owne conscience smote him with the gylce of it so as he would fayne auoyd the shame of it by colourable protestation and that before God not to derogate from any tollerable order established in these externall matters yet he cannot chuse but charge them that they make Princes raunge with the rest of their Seniours and Church-gouernours and that they debar princes of that right of gouernment in matters and ouer persons Eeclesiastical which the word of God al the examples of godly kings of Iudae doe aford vnto vs. The falsehoode of which is not onely manyfest by this witnes of haste as good as a thousand agaynst him but also by the testimonye which so manye worthy wryters nay Princes and Magistrates in their practise and confessions haue giuen to the same Now when the Christian Reader hath considered of this iniurye donne vnto GOD and his Church to vnderstande also firste that these are but Rapsodies gathered at leasure boasted of cast in the teth of some long since such as had other-wyse been vttered ere this but that no market would serue so well this Secondly that although He do as Sanballet send vs in wryting worde that we woulde builde vp the wall of Ierusalem and make our selues kinges when these thinges come to passe and that we set vp Prophetes which may preach of vs at Ierusalem there is a King at Iuda euery Pastor will be Pope yea and aboue the Prince in his Presbytery Yet with good Nehemias we can truely aunswere There is none of these thinges done but thou dost inuent them in thine hart and that all this is but to cast a feare vnto vs for they say their handes shall be weake from this worke that they perfect it not And therefore that our remedy is seeing we vse no meanes but by supplication but by manyfestation of the truth and seeke for nothing but Discipline which by the booke of ordination we promise to further according to our power euē to pray with the sayde Neh. Confirme O God our hands The first contradiction interlased with a lie that they make him Antichrist which refuseth the Presbytery is y ◠we vrge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy which Caluin doth referre to his ministery which is no contradiction seeing if it be referred to his office yet it being a peece of Timothies office to procure that the thinges which he had learned of Paule shoulde be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church it sufficiently prooueth the matter in hande otherwise how Could he keepe it vntill the comming of Christ Like to that is the allegation out of the French discipline that those articles which were there contayned touching discipline are not so setled amongst vs but that the vnity he should say vtility of the church so requiring they may be chaunged which I saye is a meere cauill for they speak not nor meane not it of the substance of discipline contained in y ◠word but their maner of setting it downe according to the circumstaunces of their time as is plaine by Their title which calleth it but the firste cast brought of the substance of it as it is contayned in the Scriptures of the Apostles Which substaunce they were not so mad to change though they iudged they might alter thē in many points of circūstances For these sily contradictions let him take these monstrous ones proceding from this y ◠they wil not acknowledge the perfection of y ◠scriptures cōcerning discipline One nūbring vp as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord saith of those circūstances None of these circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures nor can by necessary collectiō be granted yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertaine to comelines The next is that the Abstractor saith the Ministers ought not to wrest any thing into the gouernment of the church without due authoritie from the magistrate which he would haue contrary to that of the admonition M. Cartwright that our life must not be deare as thogh we can not by suffering if need were for so the condition is put aforde that without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate His mingling of our sentence with Brownes is but a malitious proceeding Seeing him-selfe testifieth after that wee doe more then mislyke his doinges and writinges in respect of such proceedinges Like to this is that he alleadgeth out of Iunius that if the Prince doe hinder the building of the Church the people may by force of armes resist him Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth nor in all his booke of Discipline so how malitious a slander it is brought vp vpon so worthy a seruaunt of God maye appeare by his whole treatise of the ciuill Magistrat Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where hauing shewed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantiall poyntes of Discipline and handled that question to one obiecting What shall the Church doe if it be by the Magistrates authoritye commaundement threatning and violence compelled Hee aunsweareth If the Magistrate ordayne any thing contrarie to God his worde that the Ministers shoulde plainly and modestly declare with Paule that they can do nothing against but for the truth But if the thinges be not contrarye to the truth and necessitie that the Churches are bound rather patiently to beare it then to bring the holy ordinaunce of God their body and the common peace into daunger Concerning excommunication shall be spoken after The booke he nameth of obedience I haue not The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum as not pertayning to vs I purpose not to meddle with especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise But after he hath alleadged testimonies to prooue that Which none but Papistes and Annabaptistes will deny that it is traiterous to teach the people that they shoulde owe no
not only without reason but also sence contrary to his professed knowledge to proclayme warre amongst the Churches for this matter of circumstaunce when they all haue the substaunce agreed vppon in Gods worde and doe not tye them-selues or others to the particuler circumstaunces It is also as absurde that he setteth downe as a contrarietie to the election of the Elders and people that they allowed the Officers chosen by the Consistorye or by voyces of the people or by one Minister as thogh that were derogatory to a right order to ratifie that by good authority which was at the first imperfectly donne Yet that is most absurde which he doth obtect againste the authour of the Abstract as though he were contrarye to this order because he woulde haue the people giue their consent seeing as hath beene shewed these may not only agree but ought vnseperably to be ioyned togeather in Church-lections For if eyther by silence or otherwyse they signifie their consent and the election be not made but sufficient deliberation be giuen them to shew iust causes of their dislyke or gladly to accept them It is all one as hath beene prooued in the treatise to that purpose In the next obiection he must first prooue that we dissent before he haue an answere for to haue it done by the Consistorye and to adioyne a conference are not contrary The next is answered in the treatise of the election of Church-officers The next is an vntruth For the confirmation De la dis Eccles sheweth that the people giue their consent and approbation according to the 14. of the Actes Page 233. The next we take but for a poore cauil grounded vnlesse hee make it appeare which he speaketh of some which hold it lawfull to picke a quarrel and leaue the ministery vpon a slaunder In deed if at one mans pleasure for truthes sake they be put out to seeke an honest way to lyue is not vnlawfull nor contrarye to the decree of the French Churches that they be chosen to be Ministers their whole life vnlesse they be discharged lawfully vnto which decree all agree The next of depositions receiueth the same answere which the elections doe for the authority which electeth must be that which deposeth and the Discipline of Fraunce meaneth no otherwise And of Excommunication ther is the like iudgement The Author of the Abstract can best expound his meaning and his words bear no such collection as hee gathereth For in saying the Minister may do it and that by Lawe in his charge aswell as the Byshop in his Diocesse He doth not authorize the Byshoppe to doe it alone but with due consent to whome it doth appertaine In the nexte when hee sheweth who that some bee which make decision of controuersies incident to euery Presbytery otherwise then if they can with contentation agree of the trueth amongst themselues we will giue his aunswere to it In the meane time we iudge of it as of the rest that it is vntrue The like of the two other excepting Brown for whome he hath his aunswere and of the next about God-fathers Concerning the next poynt the which he sayth of the Churches of Fraunce that they think it lawfull to baptize without an assembly I can not beleeue it vnlesse I haue better direction then the 7. article of their Discipline in which I can finde no such thing though I finde some other articles there which he hath aledged thence wherefore I feare that it is a fiction Concerning Holy-dayes let him firste shew that the Churches obserue them in maner of a Sabboth wholly to rest from their labour and then T. C. with his reasons or the churches with theirs must giue place to the truth The diuersity about popish Priestes is aunswered before in the tretise of that matter The next are but slaunders to which he gyueth no credite by anye testimonye and are confuted before in the treatise of the Doctor It is also a manifest vntruth that T. C. mislyketh wholly That anye are suffered to preach nor hauing a Pastorall charge For he speaketh generally of such as haue no charge neither Pastorall nor Doctorall For he would haue both tyed to a certayne place yea the Elders Preaching in other mens cures or charges wherevnto men are not lawfully called wee condemne according to the iudgement of the French Churches neither doth he note any wher we might finde the contrarie In ordaining of ceremonies the admonition meaneth no otherwise than the Frenche Churches for though the Eldershippe abollishe those which are vnprofitable yet it may be don with consent alowance of other Churches for which cause hee entreateth of conferences page 30. 31. c. That hee saith of the admonition as though they misliked a prescript forme of prayer is an vtter vntruth for there are not anye wordes which shewe they mislike a prescript forme of prayers As for vnleauened bread it is but proper to Geneua onely now our Church hath alowed the other why should he then make any difference or strife about it The matters of mariage or such like heere named as they are handled with vs are ciuil but as they become doubtfull in any question of God his worde or what is expedient for the Church to doe for auoyding of offence belongeth vnto the Ecclesiasticall seigniorie and so that difference is aunsweared In the other also it is defended as vnlawfull for a Minister of the Worde to be occupied in Ciuill affayres Againste this he in vaine bringeth an exception in Elders which rule onely Neither is it simplye a Ciuill thing to giue testimonies in writinges for to doe it for matters Ecclesiasticall as for soundnesse of fayth for assuring them to be receiued which were excommunicate or such like it is an Ecclesiastical not a Ciuill action Touching the order of the French Church for publishing of Bookes we consent that where the Discipline is established and an order taken that men with modesly in a Synode may be sufficiently heard and satisfied that it ought to be in force and as an Eeclesiasticall order obeyed from which yet a man may swarue being dryuen to gyue defence to the truth of God The next setteth his conceits in the laughter of all men For maye we not mislyke that he which ordayneth shoulde bydde the ordayned receaue the holye Ghoste which he can not gyue nor hath promise that his imposition of handes shall distribute auye gifts and yet alow that that place for instruction be repeated and intreased of Concerning his long srory of subscription this may be sufficient shortly to aunswere both to shew our â—uitye in iudgement with the Churches and also to satisfie the Church of England First therefore we say that we haue alwayes beene readye according to our dutye to subscribe to her Maiesties supreame authority and to the Articles of religion concerning the doctrine of fayth and of the Sacramentes which is all that is requyred by law Secondly when as it is
in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vniusâ—ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y â— writings which haue coÌ„futed by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excelleÌ„t Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.
change of the time in the Lords supper as it is a meere circumstance of time so the alteration hath grounde in the scripture because one and the same time is not alwaies kept Act. 3. 42. Act. 20. 7. 11. c. Neither can that be saide to be according to the institution which being done vpon a particuler cause as all Diuines agree shold not be obserued wher that cause ceaseth Thus his assertions reasons being touched heere followeth a plaine declaration of the truth as to satisfie his request or chalenge Namely that the whole substance of the ordinary gouernment of the church that is to say the vnchaungable lawes of the holy things of Offices callings examinations abdications executiōs of the reason and distinction of euery one of them is prescribed of God in his holy Worde as a perpetuall Lawe vnto his Church And although euery particuler rite order which are variable according to the circumstance be not so particulerly mentioned yet are they by certaine generall rules so limitted and prescribed that no Churche can vse them at their pleasure but ought to frame thē within the boundes set vnto them of God which may appeare by these reasons following First seeing vnder the Law God by the ministery of Moses did precisely this thing for the gouernment of his Church then so that neither Dauid nor Nehemias might alter any thing but by especial reuelation from God by his Prophets it were to make God lesse carefull of his Church vnder the gospel to make the ministery of Moses more excellent then that of Christe vnlesse in like manner he had performed the same For Christe being a King hath prescribed Lawes for his gouernment and as he is a Lorde hath ordained the diuers administrations of his Church and in this respect was faithfull as Moses in all his house Againe seeing the Apostles hauing beene taught of him by the space of forty dayes the thinges which pertaine to his kingdome Act. 1. 3. that is as the Jesuites them selues are compelled to confesse the whole regiment of Christes Church did thereuppon set down such orders for the same 1. Tim. 3. 15 and giue charge that they shoulde be kept vnblameably 1. Tim. 5. 21. otherwise then which neither Timothy nor Titus might perfect that in the gouernment of the Churche which the Apostles had begun and say that they which are spiritual must acknowledge their orders in this behalfe to bee the commaundementes of our Lorde 1. Corin. 14. 37. and will their ordinaunces in this behalfe to bee kept as they deliuered them 1. Cor. 11. 2. and euen in the matter of the maintenaunce of the ministery woulde speake not according to man but according to the Law of God and the ordinance of the Lord 1. Cor. 9. 8. 14. then euery one that is spiritual must acknowledge the former position to bee true Thirdly seeing Christe hath expresly in his Word set downe sufficient ordinary Ministeries of Exhorters Teachers Elders Deacous with their proper gifts and workes of exhorting teaching diligent watching distributing for the administring of the holy things as y e word Prayer Sacraments censures and treasury and hath ordained the Eldership for y ioynt gouernment in euery particuler Congregation with Synodes for matters common to manye Churches it followeth that the former assertion is vndoubtedly true Fourthly seeing the Apostle Paule who receiued this as y ◠rest of y e Gospel by reuelation did vniformally plant y e same gouernmēt in all churches as appeareth by comparing the story of the Actes w t Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. epist to Titus it is manifest they had a forme prescribed thē by Christ to follow euē as Moses did all things according to y ◠pattern shewed him in the moūt Againe seeing it is not in the power of man to alter or change these offices by addition or detraction because they cannot gyue nor take away members to and from Christes bodie but all the gyftes are from one spirite the faculties from one God the administrations from one Lorde and finally all Church Ministeries must be frō heauen and not from earth as Christ sayth the Scribes them selues confesse Then is there in the worde of God such an vnchaungeable rule of gouernment as is before declared Lastly seeing God in altering the outward face of his church vnder the Gospell diuerse from that vnder the law in regarde of y e ceremonies abolished and of things according to the riches and simplicitie of the Gospell inlarged did as well keep the substance of the Churches administration namely in ordayning for Priests Pastors for teaching Leuits or Doctors of y ◠law Teachers for rulers of y ◠Sinagog Churh-gouernors or Elders for their leuitical lokers to y ◠treasury Deacons for their presbytery the eldership As he kept the holy thinges to be administred that is for the lawe and the Prophets together with them y e writings of the new Testament for the Passeouer Circumcision Baptisme the supper of the Lorde for their giftes of God gathering for the Saintes or Church-treasury for their suspension from the Tēple-sacrifices our separation from y ◠Lords supper for their casting out of y ◠Synagogue cutting off from the people our excommunication It is euident that that which God kept for the time of the Gospell he did in perfect wisdom ordayne and prescribe and that which Christ did inrich and inlarge he woulde not haue men cut of and abolish Wherfore if they will still rowle the stone of mans power to alter and chaunge this order of God let them shewe how men can take away that which God hath set in his Church let them shew how that is not perpetual which is grounded vppon those gyftes which serue for the ordinarie necessityes of the church in al times and places yea let them shew how they can more wysely instruct the people with doctrine feede them wirh exhortation rule their soules with spirituall power chastize them with an holy rodde and prouide for their earthlye necessities then the Lorde hath done and still offereth to doe by the worde of knowledge in his Teachers by the worde of wisedome in his Pastors by the continuall watche of his Elders by the spirituall keyes of his kingdome and by his mercifull and liberall prouiding for the needie And if it be a shame to preferre mans wisedome before the wisedome of God at the least let them declare by what authoritye they will compell the Church to refuse the strong arme of God for the weake arme of fleshe and bloude To these reasons maye be added the testimonies of the Fathers as of CYPRIAN IN SERMONE DE BAPTIS CHRIST The Christian religion shall finde that out of this Scripture rules of all doctrine haue spronge and that from hence doth spring and hither doth retourne whatsoeuer the Ecclesiasticall discipline doth
which cannot be reached vnto then to be sober to be Cosmios that is comely in attire to bee no fighter are so likewise seeing that is not onely bounde vp by the Apostle by the same bond of necessity but also is the onely quality which the Apostle requireth wherein a man fit for the ministery differeth from anye other good sounde Christian or from those which are to be chosen Deacons Further seeing y ◠Apostle requireth that he must hold fast the faithfull word which is according to doctrine that he may be able to exhort with sound doctrine conuince the gainsayers And therein plainly deliuereth not only wherein they may but wherein they must be able to doe these thinges he directly ouerthroweth this mans building in the aire which hee thinketh no man can reach vnto Lastly 1 That which holdeth proportion with the proper actions of diuers members of a naturall body y ◠cannot be accounted an Idaea seeing nature doth not only tend but attaineth vnto that 2 But that proper teaching which is the peculier work of the teacher and that proper exhorting which is the peculier worke of a Pastor doe holde that proportion as is manifestly set downe by the Apostle Rom. 12. 4. 7. 8. 3 Therefore muche lesse can this aptnesse to teache which is common to them both be reckoned for an Idaea Now this thus necessarily concluded being granted notwithstanding it wold follow therupon that the issue which he tendereth is also therwithal established namely that it is simplye vnlawfull to admit them to be ministers of y ◠Sacramentes which cannot teach yet to shewe the riches of the truth it shall be further confirmed by these reasons following 1 That which is contrary to the whole course of y ◠scripture both of y ◠old and new Testament is simply vnlawfull 2 But to admit the administration of signs to such as are vnfit to administer y ◠doctrin by preaching is contrary to the whol course of the Scripture 3 Therefore it is simply vnlawfull The 2. part of which reasō is manifest by this inductiō Noe y e preacher of righteousnes had the building of the Ark to which our baptism answereth So Abra ham was y ◠minister of Circūcisiō being also a prophet of God So y ◠Jews were baptized vnto Moses who preched y e law So the Priestes offred Sacrifices who were commaunded not to drinck strong drincke That they might teach the children of Israell all the statutes which the Lorde had commaunded them by the hande of Moses So all they which were Ministers of propheticall signes were also Prophetes So in the Gospell the baptisme of John implyed the ministerie of his doctrine For the text sayth Those which heard him were baptized So the general commission of the Apostles is to preach and Baptize And when they were sent to baptize in Judea they were also sent to preach So in y e ordinary ministry whatsoeuer Elders went further then ruling onely were occupied in the Word and doctrine diuers from which seeing he can shew no worthy example out of the Scripture the former induction is full Secondly 1 It is simply vnlawful to admit such to be Ministers of the Sacramentes which the Lord reiecteth from being Ministers of the Sacrifices 2 But such as are so vnapt to preach as by that meanes the people lacke knowledge the Lord reiecteth from y ◠ministery of the sacrifices Ose 4. 6. 3 Therefore we ought much more to reiect them from the ministery of the Sacramentes because the ebbe of knowledge vnder the law ought to be full Sea vnder the gospell Thirdly 1 If the Lorde in the scriptures of the new Testament hath giuen no commandement to the ordinary Ministers of the Word to administer the Sacraments but vnder the commandement of preaching the Worde then is it vnlawfull to admit a Minister not apt to teach 2 But hee is not able to shewe any one place of a commaundement of an ordinary ministry of the Sacraments not comprehended vnder the commaundement of the preaching Ministery 3 Therefore vnlesse he would bring into Gods haruest such an one as he hath not hyred it is simply vnlawfull to admitte him to administer the Sacraments which cannot preach If he obiect these words of Christ Do this we answere that it is not to be referred onely to the deliuery of breade but to al the actions going afore of preaching blessing and breaking c and therefore the Apostle sayth that when we administer the Lordes Supper we preach Christs death till he come Lastly seeing by Ephes 4. verse 11. all the ordinary offices which serue for the gathering together and the building of the Church by the publique ministery of diuine seruice is eyther the office of a Pastor or a Doctor it followeth that none be admitted to administer the Sacraments which can not preach because prophesying that is preaching is the worke that is proper and common to them both Rom. 12. 6. From whence also floweth their seuerall duties of exhortation peculier to the Pastour and of an especial manner of teaching proper to the Doctour Rom. 12. 6. 7. To his demaunde following Whether so many Churches as cannot obtaine learned Ministers should be destitute of publique Prayers and administration of Sacramentes And to y ◠after That so they would become in short time as heathen and Painims or as sauadge as the wilde Irish And againe that the French Churches Tolerate certain congregations wher they haue no publike sermons but prayers with certaine exhortations To these ioyntly we aunswere the church can follow no better direction then the holy Apostles haue deliuered vnto them in this behalfe who hauing by the preaching of the gospell gathered many churches did not ordain insufficiēt ministers because at the first they had not those which were sufficient but leauing them partly to the ministery of others where they mighte find it partly to the quickning of their faith by their graue and sober meetings for praier and mutual exhortation they then returned and ordained them Elders church by church whē men were grown fit and meet for the same Act. 14. 21. 22. 23. So in the old Testament when for y ◠sins of y e people y e work of preaching was rare precious y e prophets of God sent not forth reading vnlearned Leuites but rather gathered y e people to thē on y ◠saboths new-moons to be instructed of them 2. King 4. 22. and in this sense and no other is the constitution of the French Church to be taken seeing they make no mention of the Sacramentes but of Prayer and Exhortations which in another manner may bee done with due caution of priuate persons in priuat assemblies Which thing if it were so carried of the Apostles in their times of persecution and troubles howe much more oughte it to bee among vs in the time of peace where beside the dayly increase
both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ◠if y ◠Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ◠Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ◠elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ◠this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is
and their dutie and of the churches duetye to them Rom. 13. Lastly the Gouernours wee speake of in their gouerment are placed as farre vnder the Pastors and Teachers as they are vnder the Apostles and Prophetes which if they dare say it of y ◠Magistrates they are them-selues become plaine Annabaptists and do cleane ouerthrow the most rightfull soueraigntie of Princes ouer all persons and causes as well Ciuill as Ecclesiasticall A fourth reason is seeing oure Sauiour Christ in setting downe the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery speaketh according to the Jewes for otherwise the Apostles could not haue vnderstood him when he sayde tell the congregation or Churche which was the title then giuen vnto the Ecclesiasticall Senate and his wordes of hauing as a Publican and Heathen doth manifestly prooue he ment to speak according to their custome It must needes be that hee did according to the places afore brought ordayne a Presbytery of Pastors Teachers and Elders like vnto theirs of Priestes Scribes or Teachers of the Law and their Elders which gouerned onely In y ◠fift place y ◠precept of S. James which willeth them to sende for the Elders of the Church when they be weak therby plainly declaring that y ◠Church ought not onely to haue a Pastor and a Doctor whose cheefe attendance must be on reading exhortation and doctrine But also many who ought alwayes to bee ready at the instant calling of diuers and many at once that none in y ◠necessary worke bee neglected it followeth thereby that beside them there ought to be such other elders as may admonish the vnruly comfort the weak minded patient towards all Lastly all those places which say Elders were ordayned Churche by Church that an accusation must not be taken against them vnder two witnesses and such like doe establish these for seeing the wordes are generall to both as haue bene prooued before and no circumstance doth restraine them nay the circumstances vphold y ◠general because in the first place Lukes purpose is to declare howe the Apostles broughte the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-gouernment and in the other the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts Wherfore vnlesse they will ouerthrowe all certayne sense of these places and that notable rule of interpretation that the wordes and sense of places are not to be restrained but vpon repugnance of places or playn circumstaunces of Text they must here vnderstande both sortes of Elders And thus much out of the Scriptures nowe out of the Fathers IGNATIVS AD TRVLL There is no Churche which can stande without her Eldershippe or Councell Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39. If there bee anye that hath committed such a fault that hee bee put away from the partaking of the Praiers of the Church and from all holy affayres or matters there bee presidents certain of the most approued auncientes and Elders Theophilact on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church tell the Gouernours thereof Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complayneth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word suffered this to weare out of the Church or rather of pride whilste they onely would seeme to doe somwhat Nowe all knowe that the Elders which they called Sacerdotes Priestes were not worne out of vse therefore hee may meane this and this sheweth what the Fathers meant And CIPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestlye that it remayned in his time where he sayth Lib. 4. Epi. 22 whē either examining whether al things agreed to them which should be in those who were prepared for the Ecclesiasticall function We gaue it to Optatus we with the Elders Doctors and readers ordain him Teacher of those which heare Which sheweth there were Elders for Gouernment which were not occupied in any publike diuine seruice distinguished not onelye from the Preachers but Readers Ierom also saith The Christian Church also hath her Eldership Ier. 2. lib. in Isa Which when he meneth it of such as the Jewes had it is plain hee meaneth those which we doe as may appeare by his wordes of the Jewes Elders Ad Galas quest decim They chose saith he of the wisest of their company for gouernors which shoulde aswell admonish those that had any corporall pollution to abstaine from the assemblies as to reprooue the breakers of the Sabboth A reply to the variable collections following against the Discipline HItherto we haue had whatsoeuer force he coulde make against the seuerall pointes of Church-gouernment handled before Now because he thoght the stenche of the former dung was not strong ynough to ouercome the sweete sauour which the Worde casteth vppon the Discipline hee hath tumbled together as hee thinketh a great many diuersities and contrarieties drawn from the writinges of those which seeke the Church-discipline whereby he woulde faine fasten vppon it that it is not to bee yeelded vnto because the Authors are not At any accorde or resolution amongst themselues nor yet with other learned men Also vppon hie olde song that these matters are in the liberty of the Church it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity rather then to vse that aright which hath beene once abused that a man shoulde goe aboute to deuise and to laye oute new plat-formes in Church-matters in which of necessitie such difficulties will daylye arise that cannot by anye reache of mans wit bee forecast and will breede not only a continuall toil but also infinite daungerous innonations both in the Church and common-wealth Concerning which slaunderous dealing of his I will first generally speake of it and then make aunswere to his seuerall collections adding vnto euery one of his open contradictions inconueniences of their side not only drawn from the diuersitie of mens iudgement which in the best thinges are through humane infirmity at oddes but such as shew the cheefe defendors to bee at warre with them selues in the points which they mayntayn with the holy doctrin which they must needs confesse Now may it please the Reader in the first place to consider what iniutye this man doth not onelye to the Discipline but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing For by this reasoning of his it shall come to passe that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles because it was ioyned with contrarieties and strifes as of those of the Circumcision with the rest and sometimes with bitternesse and difference betweene the Ministers whilste one woulde haue one that had forsaken the worke go with them another woulde not sometimes tumultes and disorders following the same it might well haue beene refused and east away seeing the Professors were at variance contended and many inconueniences in the reason of man followed their preaching By this meanes the whole religion which is in truth maintained of vs and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans as an vncertain and vngrounded religion because of contrariety between vs in the
Scriptures then it is of Magistrates onely as 1. chro 28. 1. 1. chro 13. 1. Or when the matters were meerely Ecclesiasticall then was the Ecclesiasticall Senate onely brought together as in consultatioÌ„ 2. king 6. 32. As in matters to be done in the congregation Act. 13. 15. For Excommunication John 9. 22. 10. 40. For interpretation the Priests and Leuites only Math. 24. And lastly by this that Peter being before both the Senates Ecclesiasticall and Ciuil doth plainly distinguish them calling y e one the cheefe or rulers of Israel the other the Elders of Israel Wherefore this proueth not that they did exercize ciuill authority and although our lawes political are not in this respect like vnto the Jewes yet if the Magistrate will call the Eldership to declare the will of God or pronounce duely an Ecclesiasticall sentence when hee will pronounce a Ciuill it may well be done without the confusion he speaketh of The next that he saith out of Caluine y e Presbitries of y e Jews was from men not froÌ„ heauen is fals for Caluin saith only since the captiuity it was chosen for the censure of manners but he sayth also in that place that that regiment was lawfull and allowed of God and that Christ did worthily prayse the order deliuered of the fathers and that which was kept vnder the law Christ sent vnto vs. Now the Fathers vnder the law did not any of those thinges and lesse then these but by God his commaundement by his Prophets yea this was commanded both that in euery City and that for more difficult causes at Hierusalem such Senate shoulde bee appointed Deut. 1. 8. 9. c. The like vntruethe is it that Musculus vnderstoode it of the whole Congregation for euen as D. Whitgift alleadged him pag. 633. He sayth It was by Seniors in Ecclesiasticall assemblie As vntrue is the other y â— Caluine sayth Neyther in Christes time nor 22. yeares after this Christian Eldership was established for he sayth in that place Where Christe a little after erected his Church the corruption beeing taken away he did restore the pure vse of Excommunication And that there is no doubt but this order of discipline which flourished vnder the kingdome of Christ succeeded into the place of that old and it is playn by the Scripture as soone as there was an ordinary set Congregation there were Elders which ioined with the Apostles in Church-gouernment Act. 12. 30. Actes 15. 6. Acts. 21. 18. Neither must they by example of the Jewes haue but one for a Nation only seeing it hath bene shewed such were in euery City and Synagogue wheras if we should square it after this his patterne we should haue one only for y â— whol Church That he saith y â— Apostles wold not haue executed the deacons office al Christs time He bableth fables which he knowth not for ther office in Christs time was only to preach and baptize in Iudaea and to be witnesses of Christs life doctrine death resurrection and ascention That which they did at Hierusalem was but to take care for y â— pore till they had fit persons and occasion to establish the order which Christe ordained neyther did they it only because they were withdrawn which if they were being so many how much more shall Ministers and Byshops bee if they looke to these and to ciuil affayres also but also because it was not acceptable meaning to God thus to doe when they had by God his blessing both suche persons place and time as he required Al the rest of his some of words that neither father Councel nor Scripture hath left in memory where when or by whom it was first erected put in practize is worse then nothing For it was done of the Apostles at Jerusalem long before the councell as is proued out of Act. 12. 30. But this sheweth their giddinesse y â— say somtime y â— it hath no testimony either of scripture or antiquity and yet again confesse and alleadge Ambrose to proue that Seniors haue beene and that they were extinguished before Ambrose his time which they will not say of Elders which minister the Word and Sacramentes for they were not extinguished before Ambrose his time neither yet are Also that they say the Byshops differ and are aboue other ministers for pollicy and order only and yet make them differ in the Ministery of grace as in the sentence of Excoâ—â—â—ucation of Absolution and according to their Doctrine of ministring strength against temptations by confirmation For these they make proper to the Byshop and not common to euery minister and notwithstanding the Minister must read the Excommunication yet y â— word sentence and authority doth come from the Byshop and for Absolution it is ynough to goe to him or his Delegate The nexte contraryetyes agree like friends for both all Is not expressed in the Scripture as the booke of Discipline sayth and yet all may be prooued by direct Scripture Seeing whatsoeuer is necessarily collected thence though it be not expressed is directlye prooued Also the next is of as little value for both Ministers and Preachers as Caluine sayth may be vnderstood and also gouerning Elders as Beza noteth The next is an open lye for Beza sayth on that place of Tim. 5. 17. Therefore there were two sortes of Elders When one sort should attend on gouernment the other on the Word prayer Of such force is the next for the booke of Discipline agreeth in iudgment with M. Cartwight that in the place of the 1. Tim. 3. vnder Deacous are comprehended both those properly so called and the Elders For M. Cartwright referreth him self to that obseruation Pag. 54. and prooueth it because the qualities there set downe are common to bothe and there are none touched proper to either and the Word Deacons is taken in diuers places for all those Ministers which are not occupyed in the Worde as Rom. 12. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 11. The next is like to that of the 14. of the Act and so to be answered Also one may gather The Eldership out of the. 1. Cor. 12 For of the 14. none doth and out of the other places both vnles he be so learned in diuinity y t he thinke diuers places caÌ„not proue one thing His other cauil is not worth a rush for in one respect Deacons signifying somtime all Ministries not occupyed in the Worde may be a Genus or generall to Elders and Deacons so called Also the name Bishop beeing generally giuen of their work of watching or our-seeing Act. 20. vnto Elders may be commoÌ„ both to ministers and gouerning Elders which disagreeth not with this that Elders be teaching and vnteaching It is true also which is obserued by the booke of Discipline that the name of Elders is not giuen to those Deacons which are distributers and his written booke may be ouer-seene in so smal a thing as