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diversity_n church_n gift_n teacher_n 528 5 9.4074 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00637 A counter-poyson modestly written for the time, to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy discipline of Christ. Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name. 1584 (1584) STC 10770; ESTC S101936 77,534 204

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it_o which_o be_v the_o advancement_n of_o virtue_n the_o beat_n down_o and_o suppress_n of_o sin_n and_o impiety_n the_o keep_n of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o unity_n and_o quiet_a order_n which_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o christ_n kingdom_n and_o his_o government_n 3_o he_o make_v they_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o it_o so_o that_o he_o have_v not_o learn_v yet_o to_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n and_o god_n righteousness_n establish_v by_o it_o nor_o between_o the_o two_o 7._o petition_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n that_o his_o kingdomr_n may_v come_v and_o the_o fruit_n of_o this_o that_o his_o will_n may_v be_v do_v in_o earth_n as_o in_o heaven_n again_o he_o grant_v the_o essential_a part_n of_o christ_n kingdom_n and_o outward_a policy_n of_o the_o church_n but_o he_o deny_v any_o exact_a form_n as_o though_o there_o can_v be_v essential_a point_n of_o outward_a government_n perpetual_a and_o yet_o they_o shall_v have_v no_o perpetual_a form_n can_v 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and_o their_o duty_n and_o of_o the_o church_n duty_n to_o they_o rom._n 13._o last_o the_o governor_n we_o speak_v of_o in_o their_o government_n be_v place_v as_o far_o under_o the_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n as_o they_o be_v under_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n which_o if_o they_o dare_v say_v it_o of_o y_fw-fr ●_o magistrate_n they_o be_v themselves_o become_v plain_a annabaptist_n and_o do_v clean_o overthrow_v the_o most_o rightful_a sovereignty_n of_o prince_n over_o all_o person_n and_o cause_n as_o well_o civil_a as_o ecclesiastical_a a_o four_o reason_n be_v see_v our_o saviour_n christ_n in_o set_v down_o the_o ecclesiastical_a presbytery_n speak_v according_a to_o the_o jew_n for_o otherwise_o the_o apostle_n can_v not_o have_v understand_v he_o when_o he_o say_v tell_v the_o congregation_n or_o church_n which_o be_v the_o title_n then_o give_v unto_o the_o place_n ecclesiastical_a senate_n and_o his_o word_n of_o have_v as_o a_o publican_n and_o heathen_a do_v manifest_o prove_v he_o mean_v to_o speak_v according_a to_o their_o custom_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o he_o do_v according_a to_o the_o place_n afore_o bring_v ordain_v a_o presbytery_n of_o pastor_n teacher_n and_o elder_n 16._o like_v unto_o they_o of_o priest_n scribe_n or_o teacher_n of_o the_o law_n and_o their_o elder_n which_o govern_v only_o in_o you_o ●_o five_o place_n y_fw-es ●_o precept_n of_o s._n james_n which_o will_v they_o to_o send_v for_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n when_o they_o be_v weak_a 5._o thereby_o plain_o declare_v that_o you_o ●_o church_n ought_v not_o only_o to_o have_v a_o pastor_n and_o a_o doctor_n who_o chief_a attendance_n must_v be_v 4._o on_o read_v exhortation_n and_o doctrine_n but_o also_o many_o who_o ought_v always_o to_o be_v ready_a at_o the_o instant_n call_n of_o diverse_a and_o many_o at_o once_o that_o none_o in_o y_fw-es ●_o necessary_a work_v be_v neglect_v it_o follow_v thereby_o that_o beside_o they_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v such_o other_o elder_n as_o may_v admonish_v the_o unruly_a comfort_v the_o weak_a mind_a &_o patient_a 5._o towards_o all_o last_o all_o those_o place_n which_o say_v elder_n be_v ordain_v church_n by_o 14._o church_n that_o a_o accusation_n must_v not_o be_v take_v against_o they_o under_o two_o witness_n 5._o and_o such_o like_a do_v establish_v these_o for_o see_v the_o word_n be_v general_a to_o both_o as_o have_v be_v prove_v before_o and_o no_o circumstance_n do_v restrain_v they_o nay_o the_o circumstance_n uphold_v y_fw-mi ●_o general_a because_o in_o the_o first_o place_n luke_n purpose_n be_v to_o declare_v how_o the_o apostle_n bring_v the_o church_n to_o a_o perfect_a and_o full_a order_n of_o church-government_n and_o in_o the_o other_o the_o apostle_n have_v speak_v immediate_o before_o of_o both_o sort_n wherefore_o unless_o they_o will_v overthrow_v all_o certain_a sense_n of_o these_o place_n and_o that_o notable_a rule_n of_o interpretation_n that_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n of_o place_n be_v not_o to_o be_v restrain_v but_o upon_o repugnance_n of_o place_n or_o plain_n circumstance_n of_o text_n they_o must_v here_o understande_v both_o sort_n of_o elder_n and_o thus_o much_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n now_o out_o of_o the_o father_n ignatius_n ad_fw-la trull_n there_o be_v no_o church_n which_o can_v stand_v without_o her_o eldership_n synedrion_fw-mi or_o council_n tertull._n apoll._n cap._n 39_o if_o there_o be_v any_o that_o have_v commit_v such_o a_o fault_n that_o he_o be_v put_v away_o from_o the_o partake_n of_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n and_o from_o all_o holy_a affair_n or_o matter_n there_o be_v precedent_n certain_a of_o the_o most_o approve_a auncientes_n and_o elder_n theophilact_n on_o the_o place_n of_o mat._n interprete_v tell_v the_o church_n tell_v the_o governor_n thereof_o ambrose_n 1_o timoth._n 5._o complain_v that_o the_o teacher_n and_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n suffer_v this_o to_o wear_v out_o of_o the_o church_n or_o rather_o of_o pride_n while_o they_o only_o will_v seem_v to_o do_v somewhat_o now_o all_o know_v that_o the_o elder_n which_o they_o call_v sacerdotes_fw-la priest_n be_v not_o wear_v out_o of_o use_n therefore_o he_o may_v mean_v this_o and_o this_o show_v what_o the_o father_n mean_v and_o cyprian_n confirm_v that_o as_o manifestlye_o that_o it_o remain_v in_o his_o time_n where_o he_o say_v lib._n 4._o epi._n 22_o when_o either_o examine_v whether_o all_o thing_n agree_v to_o they_o which_o shall_v be_v in_o those_o who_o be_v prepare_v for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a function_n we_o give_v it_o to_o optatus_n we_o with_o the_o elder_n clerum_fw-la doctor_n and_o reader_n ordain_v he_o teacher_n of_o those_o which_o hear_v which_o show_v there_o be_v elder_n for_o government_n which_o be_v not_o occupy_v in_o any_o public_a divine_a service_n distinguish_v not_o only_o from_o the_o preacher_n but_o reader_n jerom_n also_o say_v the_o christian_a church_n also_o have_v her_o eldership_n jer._n 2._o lib._n in_o isa_n which_o when_o he_o mean_v it_o of_o such_o as_o the_o jew_n have_v it_o be_v plain_a he_o mean_v those_o which_o we_o do_v as_o may_v appear_v by_o his_o word_n of_o the_o jew_n elder_n ad_fw-la galas_n quest_n decim_fw-la they_o choose_v say_v he_o of_o the_o wise_a of_o their_o company_n for_o governor_n which_o shall_v aswell_o admonish_v those_o that_o have_v any_o corporal_a pollution_n to_o abstain_v from_o the_o assembly_n as_o to_o reproove_v the_o breaker_n of_o the_o sabbath_n a_o reply_n to_o the_o variable_a collection_n follow_v against_o the_o discipline_n hitherto_o we_o have_v have_v whatsoever_o force_n he_o can_v make_v against_o the_o several_a point_n of_o church-government_n handle_v before_o now_o because_o he_o think_v the_o stench_n of_o the_o former_a dung_n be_v not_o strong_a enough_o to_o overcome_v the_o sweet_a savour_n which_o the_o worde_n cast_v upon_o the_o discipline_n he_o have_v tumble_v together_o as_o he_o think_v a_o great_a many_o diversity_n and_o contrariety_n draw_v from_o the_o write_n of_o those_o which_o seek_v the_o church-discipline_n whereby_o he_o will_v fain_o fasten_v upon_o it_o that_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v yield_v unto_o because_o the_o author_n be_v 191_o not_o at_o any_o accord_n or_o resolution_n among_o themselves_o nor_o yet_o with_o other_o learned_a man_n also_o upon_o high_a old_a song_n that_o these_o matter_n be_v in_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v a_o very_a nice_a and_o a_o dangerous_a scrupulosity_n rather_o than_o to_o use_v that_o aright_o which_o have_v be_v once_o abuse_v that_o a_o man_n shall_v go_v about_o to_o devise_v and_o to_o lay_v out_o new_a platform_n in_o church-matter_n 191_o in_o which_o of_o necessity_n such_o difficulty_n will_v daily_o arise_v that_o can_v by_o any_o 192_o reach_n of_o man_n wit_n be_v forecast_v and_o will_v breed_v not_o only_o a_o continual_a toil_n but_o also_o infinite_a dangerous_a innonation_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n concern_v which_o slanderous_a deal_n of_o his_o i_o will_v first_o general_o speak_v of_o it_o and_o then_o make_v answer_n to_o his_o several_a collection_n add_v unto_o every_o one_o of_o he_o open_a contradiction_n &_o inconvenience_n of_o their_o side_n not_o only_o draw_v from_o the_o diversity_n of_o man_n judgement_n which_o in_o the_o best_a thing_n be_v through_o humane_a infirmity_n at_o odds_n but_o such_o as_o show_v the_o chief_a defendor_n to_o be_v at_o war_n with_o themselves_o in_o the_o point_n which_o they_o mayntayn_v &_o with_o the_o holy_a doctrine_n which_o they_o must_v needs_o confess_v now_o may_v it_o please_v the_o reader_n in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o consider_v what_o iniutye_n this_o man_n do_v not_o only_o to_o the_o discipline_n but_o also_o to_o our_o holy_a religion_n in_o this_o manner_n of_o deal_n for_o by_o this_o reason_n of_o his_o it_o shall_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o the_o religion_n when_o it_o be_v first_o preach_v by_o the_o apostle_n because_o it_o be_v join_v with_o contrariety_n and_o strife_n as_o of_o those_o of_o the_o circumcision_n 4._o with_o the_o rest_n and_o sometime_o with_o bitterness_n and_o difference_n between_o the_o minister_n while_o one_o will_v have_v one_o that_o have_v forsake_v the_o work_n go_v with_o they_o another_o will_v not_o sometime_o tumult_n and_o disorder_n follow_v the_o same_o it_o may_v well_o have_v be_v refuse_v and_o east_n away_o see_v the_o professor_n be_v at_o variance_n contend_v and_o many_o inconvenience_n in_o the_o reason_n of_o man_n follow_v their_o preach_n by_o this_o mean_n the_o whole_a religion_n which_o be_v in_o truth_n maintain_v of_o we_o and_o of_o our_o brethren_n who_o now_o they_o call_v lutheran_n as_o a_o uncertain_a and_o ungrounded_a religion_n because_o of_o contrariety_n between_o we_o in_o the_o
not_o only_o without_o reason_n but_o also_o sense_n &_o contrary_a to_o his_o profess_a knowledge_n to_o proclaim_v war_n among_o the_o church_n for_o this_o matter_n of_o circumstance_n when_o they_o all_o have_v the_o substance_n agree_v upon_o in_o god_n word_n and_o do_v not_o tie_v themselves_o or_o other_o to_o the_o particular_a circumstance_n it_o be_v also_o as_o absurd_a that_o he_o set_v down_o as_o a_o contrariety_n to_o the_o election_n of_o the_o elder_n and_o people_n that_o they_o allow_v the_o officer_n choose_v by_o the_o consistorye_n or_o by_o voice_n of_o the_o people_n or_o by_o one_o minister_n as_o though_o that_o be_v derogatory_n to_o a_o right_a order_n to_o ratify_v that_o by_o good_a authority_n which_o be_v at_o the_o first_o imperfect_o do_v yet_o that_o be_v most_o absurd_a which_o he_o do_v obtect_v against_o the_o author_n of_o the_o abstract_n as_o though_o he_o be_v contrary_a to_o 211._o this_o order_n because_o he_o will_v have_v the_o people_n give_v their_o consent_n see_v as_o have_v be_v show_v these_o may_v not_o only_o agree_v but_o ought_v unseperable_o to_o be_v join_v together_o in_o church-lections_a for_o if_o either_o by_o silence_n or_o otherwise_o they_o signify_v their_o consent_n and_o the_o election_n be_v not_o make_v but_o sufficient_a deliberation_n be_v give_v they_o to_o show_v just_a cause_n of_o their_o 212._o dislike_v or_o glad_o to_o accept_v they_o it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o have_v be_v prove_v in_o the_o treatise_n to_o that_o purpose_n in_o the_o next_o objection_n he_o must_v first_o prove_v that_o we_o dissent_v before_o he_o have_v a_o answer_n for_o to_o have_v it_o do_v by_o the_o consistorye_n and_o to_o adjoine_v a_o conference_n be_v not_o contrary_a the_o next_o be_v answer_v in_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o election_n of_o church-officer_n the_o next_o be_v a_o untruth_n for_o the_o confirmation_n de_fw-fr la_fw-fr dis_fw-fr eccles_n show_v that_o the_o people_n give_v their_o consent_n and_o approbation_n according_a to_o the_o 14._o of_o the_o act_n page_n 233._o the_o next_o we_o take_v but_o for_o a_o poor_a cavil_v ground_v unless_o he_o make_v it_o appear_v which_o he_o speak_v of_o some_o which_o hold_v it_o lawful_a to_o pick_v a_o quarrel_n and_o leave_v the_o ministry_n upon_o a_o slander_n in_o deed_n if_o at_o one_o man_n pleasure_n for_o truth_n sake_n they_o be_v put_v out_o to_o seek_v a_o honest_a way_n to_o live_v be_v not_o unlawful_a nor_o contrary_a to_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o french_a church_n that_o they_o be_v choose_v to_o be_v minister_n their_o whole_a life_n unless_o they_o be_v discharge_v lawful_o unto_o which_o decree_n all_o agree_v the_o next_o of_o deposition_n receive_v the_o same_o answer_n which_o the_o election_n do_v for_o the_o authority_n which_o elect_v must_v be_v that_o which_o depose_v and_o the_o discipline_n of_o france_n mean_v not_o otherwise_o and_o of_o excommunication_n there_o be_v the_o like_a judgement_n the_o author_n of_o the_o abstract_n can_v best_o expound_v his_o meaning_n and_o his_o word_n bear_v no_o such_o collection_n as_o he_o gather_v for_o in_o say_v the_o minister_n may_v do_v it_o and_o that_o by_o law_n in_o his_o charge_n aswell_o as_o the_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n he_o do_v not_o authorise_v the_o bishop_n to_o do_v it_o alone_o but_o with_o due_a consent_n to_o who_o it_o do_v appertain_v in_o the_o next_o when_o he_o show_v who_o that_o some_o be_v which_o make_v decision_n of_o controversy_n incident_a to_o every_o presbytery_n otherwise_o then_o if_o they_o can_v with_o contentation_n agree_v of_o the_o truth_n among_o themselves_o we_o will_v give_v his_o answer_n to_o it_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o judge_v of_o it_o as_o of_o the_o rest_n that_o it_o be_v untrue_a the_o like_a of_o the_o two_o other_o except_v brown_a for_o who_o he_o have_v his_o answer_n and_o of_o the_o next_o about_o godfather_n concern_v the_o next_o point_n the_o which_o he_o say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o france_n that_o they_o think_v it_o lawful_a to_o baptize_v without_o a_o assembly_n i_o can_v not_o believe_v it_o unless_o i_o have_v better_a direction_n than_o the_o 7._o article_n of_o their_o discipline_n in_o which_o i_o can_v find_v no_o such_o thing_n though_o i_o find_v some_o other_o article_n there_o which_o he_o have_v allege_v thence_o wherefore_o i_o fear_v that_o it_o be_v a_o fiction_n concern_v holiday_n let_v he_o first_o show_v that_o the_o church_n observe_v they_o in_o manner_n of_o a_o sabbath_n whole_o to_o rest_v from_o their_o labour_n and_o then_o t._n c._n with_o his_o reason_n or_o the_o church_n with_o they_o must_v give_v place_n to_o the_o truth_n the_o diversity_n about_o popish_a priest_n be_v answer_v before_o in_o the_o tretise_n of_o that_o matter_n the_o next_o be_v but_o slander_n to_o which_o he_o gyve_v no_o credit_n by_o any_o testimony_n and_o be_v confute_v before_o in_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o doctor_n it_o be_v also_o a_o manifest_a untruth_n that_o t._n c._n mislyke_v whole_o that_o any_o be_v suffer_v to_o preach_v nor_o have_v a_o pastoral_a charge_n for_o he_o speak_v general_o of_o such_o as_o have_v no_o charge_n neither_o pastoral_n nor_o doctoral_a for_o he_o will_v have_v both_o tie_v to_o a_o certain_a place_n yea_o the_o elder_n preach_v in_o other_o man_n cure_n or_o charge_n whereunto_o man_n be_v not_o lawful_o call_v we_o condemn_v according_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o french_a church_n neither_o do_v he_o note_v any_o where_o we_o may_v find_v the_o contrary_n in_o ordain_v of_o ceremony_n the_o admonition_n mean_v not_o otherwise_o than_o the_o french_a church_n for_o though_o the_o eldership_n abollishe_a those_o which_o be_v unprofitable_a yet_o it_o may_v be_v do_v with_o consent_n &_o allowance_n of_o other_o church_n for_o which_o cause_n he_o entreat_v of_o conference_n page_n 30._o 31._o etc._n etc._n that_o he_o say_v of_o the_o admonition_n as_o though_o they_o mislike_v a_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n be_v a_o utter_a untruth_n for_o there_o be_v not_o any_o word_n which_o show_v they_o mislike_v a_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n as_o for_o unleavened_a bread_n it_o be_v but_o proper_a to_o geneva_n only_o &_o now_o our_o church_n have_v allow_v the_o other_o why_o shall_v he_o then_o make_v any_o difference_n or_o strife_n about_o it_o the_o matter_n of_o marriage_n or_o such_o like_a here_o name_v as_o they_o be_v handle_v with_o we_o be_v civil_a but_o as_o they_o become_v doubtful_a in_o any_o question_n of_o god_n his_o word_n or_o what_o be_v expedient_a for_o the_o church_n to_o do_v for_o avoid_v of_o offence_n belong_v unto_o the_o ecclesiastical_a signiory_n and_o so_o that_o difference_n be_v answer_v in_o the_o other_o also_o it_o be_v defend_v as_o unlawful_a for_o a_o minister_n of_o the_o worde_n to_o be_v occupy_v in_o civil_a affair_n against_o this_o he_o in_o vain_a bring_v a_o exception_n in_o elder_n which_o rule_v only_o neither_o be_v it_o simp_o a_o civil_a thing_n to_o give_v testimony_n in_o write_n for_o to_o do_v it_o for_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a as_o for_o soundness_n of_o faith_n for_o assure_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v which_o be_v excommunicate_a or_o such_o like_a it_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a not_o a_o civil_a action_n touch_v the_o order_n of_o the_o french_a church_n for_o publish_v of_o book_n we_o consent_v that_o where_o the_o discipline_n be_v establish_v and_o a_o order_n take_v that_o man_n with_o modesly_a in_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v sufficient_o hear_v and_o satisfy_v that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o force_n and_o as_o a_o eeclesiasticall_a order_n obey_v from_o which_o yet_o a_o man_n may_v swerve_v be_v dryven_v to_o gyve_v defence_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n the_o next_o set_v his_o conceit_n in_o the_o laughter_n of_o all_o man_n for_o may_v we_o not_o mislike_v that_o he_o which_o ordain_v shall_v bid_v the_o ordain_v receive_v the_o holy_a 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