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A13170 A ful and round ansvver to N.D. alias Robert Parsons the noddie his foolish and rude Warne-word comprised in three bookes, whereof, the first containeth a defence of Queene Elizabeths most pious and happie gouernment, by him maliciously slaundered. The second discouereth the miserable estate of papists, vnder the Popes irreligious and vnhappy tyrannie, by him weakely defended. The third, toucheth him for his vnciuill termes and behauior, and diuers other exorbitant faults and abuses, both here and elsewhere by him committed, and cleareth his vaine obiections and cauils. Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629. 1604 (1604) STC 23465; ESTC S117978 279,569 402

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master of Sentences Dist 1. lib. 1. the school-mē striue about the words vti and frui dissenting not only from their master but also from one another They differ also much about the distinction of diuine attributes Vtrum sit realis formalis an rationis tantùm This saith Dionysius a Charterhouse Monke is one of the chiefe difficulties of Diuines In dist 2. lib. 1 sent and about it betweene famous Doctors is great dissention and contention Aegidius doth lance Thomas and others runne vpon both Aegidius in lib. 1. sent dist 2. would haue the persons of the Trinitie to be distinguished by a certaine thing in one that is not in another but others condemne him for that opinion Writing vpon the 3. dist lib. 1. sent they denie their masters examples and one condemneth another Bonauenture saith that men may attaine to the knowledge of the holy Trinitie by naturall reason others say contrarie The Scotists lib. 1. sent dist 5. inuey against Henricus de Gandauo for his opinion about the eternall generation of the Sonne of God Aegidius holdeth that the son of God hath power to beget another son which displeaseth Thomas and Bonauenture and is very strange doctrine Thomas Aquinas part 1. q. 32. art 4. saith that Doctors may hold contrary opinions Circa notiones in diuinis He teacheth also that the holy Ghost doth more principally proceed from the Father then from the Sonne which others mislike If then they agrée not about the doctrine of the holy Trinitie it is not like that in matters wherein they haue libertie to dissent they will better agrée Scotus holdeth In 2. sent dist 1. that the soule and an Angell do not differ as two diuers kinds Others teach contrary Some Doctors hold that Angels consist of forme onely In 2. sent dist 3. others hold contrary They dissent also about the sin of our first parents Pighius in the doctrine of original sin dissenteth from his fellowes Innocentius in c. maiores de bapt eius effect misliketh the opinion of the master of the Sentences that held it to be pronitas ad peccandum that is a pronenesse to sinne The Thomists to this day could neuer be reconciled to the Scotists about the conception of our Ladie these denying she was conceiued in sin the others affirming it Gropper in his exposition of the Créed confesseth that among the Papists there are two diuers opinions about Christs descending into hell Bellarmine in his bookes of controuersies doth not more violently run vpon vs then vpon his owne consorts In euery article almost he bringeth contrary expositions of Scriptures and contrary opinions In the sacrament of the Lords supper which is a pledge of loue there are infinite contradictions among them as I haue shewed in my bookes de Missa against Bellarmine The like contentions I haue shewed in my Treatises de Indulgentijs de Purgatorio and shall haue occasion more at large to speake of them hereafter We are therefore to thanke God that the doctrine of faith in the Church of England is setled and that refusing all nouelties we agrée therein with the auncient catholike Church We acknowledge one Lord one faith one baptisme one head of the Church one canon of Scriptures with the auncient fathers The rules of all auncient and lawfull generall Councels concerning the faith we admit We haue one vniforme order for publike prayers administration of Sacraments and Gods seruice Neither do we onely agrée among our selues but also with the reformed Churches of France and Germany and other nations especially in matters of faith and saluation And as for ceremonies and rites it cannot be denied but that all Churches therein haue their libertie as the diuersities of auncient Churches and testimonies of Fathers do teach vs. Most vaine therefore and contumelious is that discourse of N.D. in his Warne-word 1. encontr ca. 4 5 6. where he talketh of the difference of soft and rigide Lutherans among themselues of them from Anabaptists and from Zwinglians of all from the followers of Seruetus and Valentine Gentilis For neither do we acknowledge the names of Lutherans Caluinians or Zuinglians but onely call our selues Christians nor haue we to do with the Arians or Anabaptists or Seruetus or Gentilis or any heretikes Nay by our Doctors these fellowes haue bene diligently confuted and by our gouernors the principall of them haue bene punished But these may Parsons reply haue bin among vs. Admit it were so yet do not our aduersaries take themselues to be guiltie of Arianisme and Anabaptisme because there are diuers guiltie of Arianisme and Anabaptisme among them We say further that the Churches of Germany France and England agree albeit priuate men hold priuate opinions Finally where we talk of the Church of England what a ridiculous sot was this to bring an instance of the Churches of Germany or Suizzerland nay not of the Churches but of priuat persons and that in matters not very substantiall if we admit their owne interpretations Hauing therefore talked his pleasure of Lutherans and Zuinglians he descendeth to speak of rigid and soft Caluinists as he calleth them in England He calleth them also Protestants and Puritanes But neither do we admit these names of faction nor is he able to shew that publikely any Christian is tolerated to dissent either in matters of faith or rites from the Church of England But if any there be that mislike our rites yet is not that contention about matters of faith nor can the disorder of priuate persons hinder the publike vnion of the Church Finally I do not know any man now but he is reasonably well satisfied concerning matters of discipline albeit the same be with the great griefe of Papists who go about to stirre vp the coles of contention as much as they can that heretofore haue bene couered CHAP. II. Of the restoring of Christian Religion and the reduction of the Church of England to the true faith TRue faith in time of Poperie was a great stranger in England most men being ignorant of all points of christian Religion the rest holding diuers erronious points and heresies Their ignorance we shall proue by diuers testimonies hereafter Their errors and heresies are very apparent and at large proued in my late challenge That which the Apostle calleth the doctrine of diuels 1. Tim. 4. that they imbrace for doctrine of faith For they forbid their Priests Monkes Friers and Nuns to marrie and commaund the Benedictines and their Charterhouse Monkes at all times to abstaine from flesh They also forbid men to eate flesh vpon all fasting dayes fridayes and saterdayes and in Lent dissoluing the commandements of God by their owne traditions The Manicheyes abstained from egges as Saint Augustine sheweth lib. de haeres cap. 46. Nec oua saltem sumunt quasi ipsa cùm franguntur expirent nec oporteat vllis corporibus mortuis vesci Cap. plurimi dist 82. So likewise did Papists at certain
libros tam veteris quàm noui testamenti cùm vtriusque vnus Deus sit author nec non traditiones ipsas tum ad fidem tum ad mores pertinentes tanquam vel ore tenus à Christo vel à Spiritu Sancto dictatas continua successione in Ecclesia catholica conseruatus pari pietatis affectu ac reuerentia suscipit ac veneratur Those likewise among the Papists that procéede Doctors or take any degrée in schooles do professe that they most firmely admit and embrace the traditions of the Apostles and the Church and other ecclesiasticall obseruances and constitutions Apostolicas ecclesiasticas traditiones reliquasque eiusdem Ecclesiae obseruationes constitutiones firmissimè admitto saith euery one of them Bellarmine lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 1. beginning to speake of traditions hitherto saith he we haue disputed of the written word of God now we will begin to speake briefly of the word of God not written accompting traditions to be the word of God as well as holy scriptures Praefat ante relect princip doctrin Aliud hodie religionis Christianae fundamentum saith Stapleton habemus non quidem à Christo aliud sed ab ipsis literis Euangelicis Apostolicis aliud That is we haue now another foundation of Christian religion not diuers from Christ but diuers from the Euangelicall and Apostolical scriptures So either he excludeth scriptures from being the ground of Christian religion or else maketh vnwritten traditions equall vnto them Afterward in his Analysis prefixed before his Doctrinall principles deliuering to his disciples the grounds of Christian religion he vouchsafeth the scriptures no place among them But first if by the books of the old testament they vnderstand all the bookes contained in the old latine vulgar translation of the Bible then they admit the third and fourth bookes of Esdras and all additions to the originall text to be canoniall scriptures which contradicteth their owne decrées concerning the canon of Scriptures Secondly it is absurd to make vnwritten traditions equall with the holy Scriptures For these are certainly knowne to procéed from God But of vnwritten traditions the aduersaries can bring no proofe but from men Now who is so presumptuous as to match the testimonies of men with the word of God Augustine in his 48. epistle to Vincentius speaking of the fathers writings saith they are to be distinguished from the authoritie of the canon And in his eight epistle which is to Hierome he saith that vnto the Scriptures alone this prerogatiue is to be giuen that none of them containeth any errors All other authors he wold haue censured and examined by them being not free from errours The holy Scriptures are alwayes consonant and agréeable to themselues But traditions do not onely contradict one another but also are repugnant to holy Scriptures Polycrates as Eusebius lib. 5. Eccles hist c. 23. reporteth maintained the obseruance of the feast of Easter according to the practise of the Churches of Asia to be according to the Apostles traditions Victor and the Church of Rome thought contrary Some maintained the fast vpon the Sabbath others denied it and both held by tradition Siue hodiè Christus natus est c. whether Christ was borne or baptized as this day saith Hierome serm de nat to 3. there is a diuers opinion in the world and according to the diuersitie of traditions there are diuers iudgements The Romanists do found their communion vnder one kind and their Masses without communion and the externall propitiatory sacrifice of the Masse and the hanging vp the Sacrament in the Pixe and the diuine adoration giuen to it vpon tradition But all these obseruations are impious and contrary to Scriptures Some traditions are now abolished as the prohibition of Saterdayes fast the rite of standing when we pray betweene Easter and Whitsontide the formes of prayer in old time vsed in celebration of the sacrament of the Lords supper and diuers others whereof some are mentioned by Basil lib. de Spir. san c. 27. Bellarmine also lib. 4. de verbo Dei c. 2. confesseth that some traditions were temporarie But it is impious to say that the holy Scriptures are temporary or at any time to be abolished Diuers traditiōs are no where found but in the Legends Missals and Portesses and such books of smal account and credit as for example the ceremonies rites of the Masse the prayers of the canon the formall adoration of Saints and Angels the incredible narrations of S. Clement S. Nicholas S. Christopher S. George S. Catherine S. Dominicke S. Francis and infinite other Saints which no man may receiue with like affection as he receiueth holy Scriptures but he shall infinitly disgrace the Scriptures and shew him selfe to be no Catholike Furthermore if the Papists build their faith vpon traditions then is their faith humane as hauing no ground but the testimonie of this man and that man that speaketh of traditions Their faith is also most weake and fantasticall as being built vpon the lies reported in Legends and the fantasticall ceremonies contained in the Missall and Breuiary The holy Scriptures are called the old and new testament and the Apostle Ephes 6. calleth the word of God the sword of the Spirit 2. Tim 3. Writing to Timothy he saith holy scriptures are able to make the man of God perfect and absolute and wise vnto saluation But howsoeuer the blind Papists fauor their traditions yet I hope they will be ashamed to cal their fardle of traditions Gods eternal testament or the sword of the spirit or to say that traditions are able to make the man of God perfect or wise to saluation Finally no holy father did euer make Ecclesiastical traditions not written nor contained in Scriptures but only commended by the Church of Rome or kept by custome or taken vp by fancie and recorded only in humane writings of equall authoritie with canonicall scriptures Infidelitatis argumentum est c. In serm de fid confess saith Basil It is an argument of infidelity and a most certaine signe of pride if a man wil reiect any thing that is written or bring in any thing not written The like saying he hath Moral 72. c. 1. 86. 22. Neither is it like that he should speake of traditions repugnant to scriptures as some do answer For euery Christian man knoweth that nothing is to be receiued contrarie to Scriptures and to admonish men of that had bene superfluous Si quid dicatur absque scriptura saith Chrysostome hom in Psal 95. auditorum cogitatio claudicat nunc annuens nunc hastans If any thing be spoken without proofe of scripture the mind of the hearers resteth in suspence now yeelding now denying Neither doth he speake onely of a mans owne inuention but also of all other mens reports or deuises without ground of scripture In his thirteenth homily vpon the second Epistle of S. Paul to the Corinthians he calleth