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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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a sermon whether the Logicall and Dialecticall frame by which men contriue their matter in such and such a forme or that by the gift of the grace of God waying and searching and fitting togither many sentences they seeke out pleasant wordes euery right writing and faithfull wordes and so vtter in their doctrine integritie grauitie and the wholesome worde which can not be reproued If you meane the former then euerie declamation and formal oration in the schooles may be called sermons for these are framed of the meere witt of man if you meane this latter then we thinke you teach contrarie to our church the holy scriptures You say our sermons are not that stronge and forcible worde They saye it is an essentiall note of the true church to haue true preaching of the worde and namelie the preaching of the pure worde of GOD and that this hath such a force as no eloquence wisedome learning pollicie and power of the worlde can match You saye the witt of man giueth our sermons the verie being They say God sent his Apostles that the Preachers are the seede sowers and the seede is the worde of God and that this is done by the gift of the grace of God Heere we beseech you to shewe the iust harmonie of your wordes and theirs and therein to teach vs by sounde demonstration that a man can preach the pure worde of God by his owne naturall witt without a gift supernaturall of the spirit to giue him vtterance and to speak the word as he ought to speake If all that a man preach be the pure worde of God what derogation is it to call such a mans sermons or preachings the strong and forcible worde In euerie being there is as you schollers teach the matter and the forme and that which ioyneth these togither is the efficient Vnto which of these will you applie the witt of man if you say to the matter then our church is against you and sayeth it is the pure worde of God if to the forme as interpretation doctrine and exhortation then the holy scriptures doe tye vnto the gift of the spirit saying That wee haue diuers giftes as the gift of prophecie teaching exhortation and no scripture is of anie priuate interpretation If you make it the efficient then the scripture saith There are diuersities of giftes but the same spirit and there are diuersities of administrations but the same Lord and there are diuersities of operations but God is the same which worketh all in all No man can preach except he bee sente When he ascended he gaue giftes vnto men Here we pray you to teach vs how your speaches consent to these testimonies of our church and holy Scripture or may you not meane that the Sermons of manie nowe a dayes who in stead of the pure word of God doe most curiouslie bring into the pulpitt Poetts Philosophers Rhetoricians Phisitians Schoolemen and whatsoeuer either by finenesse of witt or helpe of arte they thinke may appeare fine smooth to their hearers and winne praise to them selues may you not meane I say that such our sermons haue their being of the meere witt of man or doe you thinke that the sermons of our Reuerend Fathers and more stayed diuines which are verie warie that in all their sermons whatsoeuer they speake may be the true sense of holie Scriptures and according to the proportion of faith seeing they agree not with the familie of Iesus Christ that is at Rome are not therefore the strong and forcible worde of God And heere we pray you to teach vs whether that all doctrine interpretatiō and exhortation which is truelie and meerelie the natural meaning of holy scripture be not the worde of God or that the word is onelie in the letter of the text as of Hebrewe and Greeke or if you will truelie translated and which of these hath the word of God he that alleadgeth the wordes as did the Tempter or he that alleadgeth the true meaninge as did our Saviour Christ Mat. 4. 6. 10. Lastlie shew vs that if all our sermons bee of the witt of man and none the stronge and forcible worde of God whether Romish Babilon may not chalendge our church to wante one essentiall marke as preaching the pure word of God And whether it be possible for the witt of man to giue beeing vnto that which is an essential marke of the church of God and of that which hath greater strength and authoritie then all eloquence wisedome learning policie and power of the worlde And lastlie open vnto vs whether that reverend Father did well who graunteth that the worde of God is not only in writing but in preaching in Coūsels or Doctors Because Christ saith Hee that heareth you heareth mee The Church of England affirmeth that It is not lawful for anie one to take to him selfe the office of preaching publikely or administring the Sacramentes in the church except hee be first lawfullie called and sente to doe these thinges And heerevpon our Reverend Fathers doe not only not defende nor vse anie reasons at all to prooue that women may baptize and therefore would not haue the booke of cōmon prayer touching baptisme in private to be vnderstood to permitt women to baptize but also cōnstantlie affirme that God and well ordered churches forbidd Women to dispence that holy misterie But you Mai. Hoo. haue another kinde of determinatiō where you say Ministeriall power is a marke of separation because it seuereth them that haue it from other men and maketh them a speciall order consecrated vnto the seruice of the most highest in thinges wherewith others may not medle And in another place There is an errour which beguileth many who much intangle both themselues and others by not distinguishing seruices offices and orders ecclesiasticall the first of which three in parte the seconde may be executed by the laytie whereas none haue or can haue the third but the cleargie From the whiche Cleargie you separate Catechistes Exorcistes Readers and Singers c. And in another place you seeme to mainteyne defende the practise of those churches which necessitie requiring allowe baptisme in private to be administred by Women affirming elswhere That diuers reformed churches doe both allow and defende that kinde of Baptisme Heere we desire to knowe what you meane by ministeriall power whether you take it actiuelie as that euerie minister or all Ministers haue power to make an order consecrated to the seruice of God or passiuelie that by their calling they are made to haue the authoritie and power of a Minister or that you vnderstand by it the formall cause of their ministerie by which they differ from al other orders or that you meane the holy vnction and character which the church of Rome giueth in their consecration of priesthoode And this wee desire because we finde our church and Reverend Fathers speaking like