the aunerent Doctors of the Church he laboureth and enforceth himselfe if he can relieue it through the ayde and helpe of the holy Scripture and taketh for his first defence and weapons the second booke of the Marchabees by occasion whereoff is intreated the difference which ought to be put betweene the bookes that are Canonicall those that are Apocryph And it is in like manner declared in what authoritie reputation that booke ought to be among the Christians Afterwards although peraduenture there shal be some matters which may seeme somewhat curious vnto some men yet neuertheles shall be spokē of the Limbes as wel of the auncient fathers as of the young children that are borne dead dead without circumcision baptisme of the difference which may be betweene thē which haue ben vnder the new old testamēt as wel little as great as wel quick as dead of their condition estate We do entreate of those things very amply bicause that many do moue questions that there is good prositable necessary points to be vnderstanded for to correct many errors abuses false opinions thuching those matters which are come among the Christians Ther shal be in like manner spoken of baptisine administred by womē declared by liuely plain reasons how Iesus Christ is the onely health satisfaction of all the elect children of God how the vertue efficacie of his death pasion extendeth it selfe frō the beginning of the world vnto the ende of the same Item what is the true baptisme of Iesus Christ the remission of sinnes the satisfaction worthy of the righteousnesse of god To what ende the god woorkes doe profit the Christian What is the iudgement of God vpon the good and euill and by what means some are deliuered and other some doe abide subiect Furthermore how the iudgement is alredy done vpon euery one and whether we ought yet to attend loke for it And how Hel and Paradise doe begin already in this world when their full and whole consumation shal bee It shal be in like manner declared how the place of the Machabees serueth nothing at all to proue the Purgatory And there shall be also declared of the manner by which the auncient people of God haue prayed for the dead and for the comming of Iesus Christ and wherein the Christians may follow it without speaking against the word of god It shal be also touched how in our time and by what meanes Sathan endeuoured himselfe to establish his Purgatory and the prayers for the dead and what maske instrument he hath chosen for to do that Wee doe call this Dialogue the Hels bicause that wee doe declare how many hel 's the Papisticall doctrine hath forged for vs and the lodgings and chambers that it hath there builded ¶ THE FIFTH DIALOGVE which is called the Hels EVsebius For as much as Thomas hath reserued for himselfe one part of this day for to make his Narration and of hys owne accord hath graunted vnto mée the greatest parte therefore it is good reason that hée do begin first Wherfore I giue him the choice whether he will go before or behinde Hillarius I desire for my part that Thomas doe rehearse first the cause of his enterprise and voyage For I doe much desire to heare it and vnderstand it Thomas Thou oughtest not to be much desirous of it For thou canst not heare of me any thing which is much worth Wherefore I am well content to holde my peace if you wyll For I feare greatly that after that you haue heard mée you will mocke me chiefly Hillarius who is so expert in that occupation I beléeue that it is the chiefest cause wherefore hée so greatlye desireth to heare my wordes Wherefore I thinke it best Eusebius that thou doe procéede-forwarde and prosecute thy intent For the matters that you haue to intreat off are better then those which you can heare of mée And in hearing you I may profite but in speaking I can but spende the time the which you wil employ and best nine to a better ende And therefore beginne and after if there be any spare time I will sée what I shal do Theophilus I beleeue that we shal haue time inough Feare not thē to begin sith y thou hast alredy told vs y thou wilt not be ouer long But thou wilt make vs finde the thing good For that cause dost loue to be entreated so much knowing that the more thou refusest to tel vnto vs that we demaund so much y more we desire it Thomas I haue regard vnto another thing I consider y which Salomon hath writtē saying if a foole do hold his tongue he shal be counted wise For he compareth man to a loohing glasse or a bell y which one doth know by the sounde whether they be broken or whole So in like manner may one iudge of man in hearing him speake whether hée be wise or foolish For one perceiueth the spirit of man in his word As his figure in a glasse and one may beholde in the same the nature of him as the complection of the body in his water vrine by which it is easie to iudge what drogues hee hath in the shoppe of his braine Hillarius Thou wilt that one should saye of thée that which a Philosopher once said of a certeine man y he did sée sit at a banket which spake not a word although y all the others did put foorth certeine questiōs gaue vnto him matter inough for to speake in his course If that man saith he be a wise man hée playeth the part of a foole if he be a foole he playeth the part of a wise man. Thomas I cannot well vnderstand that matter For me thinketh that it conteineth implyeth contradiction Hillarius He giueth therby to vnderstand that euen as too much speaking apperteineth vnto fooles ideots so alwaies to holde ones peace agréeth to beasts and not vnto men Wherfore ther must be a meane kept in all things Thomas That is the same to the which I pretend And I doe thinke that I speak ynough according to the place men with whom I am And bicause y I am not wise for to speak wel I wil at the leastwise thorow silence thorow silence counterfet the wise For it is cōmonly said it is euil to speak Latin before learned men When I am with ignoraunt men as my selfe I doe speake as a Doctor especially if I thinke that I haue the moytie of a dragme or scruple more of knowledge then they But when I come before you I doe loose by and by all my babling Hillarius Thou wouldest héere very gladly make an ende But thou must first declare vnto vs that thou hast promised Thomas Sith y thou vrgest mée so much thou shalt haue it But if thou doest mocke mée bée assured that I shall haue as good matter agaynst thee for
brought of those children wheÌ„ they will not giue them to drincke as they would nor giue them that they demaund The Diuell of miracle that you shall haue thrée dayes Those are yet liuing who hearde it who can witnesse the truth Wherefore I doe conclude that the olde woman doth the miracles and not our Lady Thomas And hath that poore man Gaspard quenched their thirst Hillarius I kmow not what he did I thinke that when she sawe him so beggerly that she had some pittie But héerein stoode the question that when the childe that was raised must bée buryed then had he somewhat to doe For he must pay foure or fiue grotes for the buryall and I beléeue that he had not foure farthinges for to paye his charge and expence Neuerthelesse he could neuer agrée with the Priestes but was constrained to carry his childe to Orbe or otherwise he must bury him in the rawe earth For hée coulde neuer haue one foote of sodden earth Thomas What doe you call sodden earth and rawe earth Hillarius Are you of that country know not the language Doe you not know y our priests do call coÌ„monly raw earth that which is out of the churchyard which hath not ben blessed consecrated y is to wéet charmed by them as the same of their Church If it be rawe I conclude by contraries that the other is sodden Thomas And when he was at Orbe did he finde the Priestes more pitifull then at Lausannia Hillarius God knoweth howe that poore man was sifted and tried They did thinke to eate him aliue with his childe compelled him to carrie him to Lausannia or at the least would not suffer him to bury him in the Churchyarde neuerthelesse hee buried him But I knowe not whether it were in the rawe ground or sodden Thomas Beholde a greate rigour and crueltie shewed vnto a little infant Hillarius I doe thinke that if that tyme had continued any long space we should haue béene constrayned not to dye for want of burying It is a marueylous case that that poore little Infant had so much a doe to finde one little corner or angle in the earth for to be buried in and that the earth was not greate ynough for him We may very well say that of our Priests which Phocion saide of the Athemans a little before his death When they had condemned him to dye bicause he was too honest a man for them nor they were not worthy to haue him among them he must drincke of the hemlocke For the Athenians had that custome to make those that were founde faultie to drinke that poyson and to put them to death after that sort After that all the other that were in the prison with him had dronken and that there was none but he alone left bicause that all the other had consumed the poyson that did drinke first the hangman saide that hée will not giue it him vnlesse one woulde giue him twelue drachines of siluer For bicause that an ownce of the poyson was sold for so much Phocion then pleading with the hangman that his death might not be prolonged and that the same should not let or hinder him to die called vnto him a certeine friende of his and said vnto him Sith that it is not lawfull to dye at Athens frely but that it will cost money and that I must bye death I pray thée deliuer money to this hangman and giue him the price hée demaundeth least that for want of money I should tarry any longer before I dye We may say as much of the Christians and that y Christianitie is so much contributary that one cannot onely haue the death and the buriall freely but that we must pay a rewarde There was also among the Panims a certeine custome that the dead must pay And therfore when any man dyed they did put into his mouthe an halfe penny for to paye for his passage and custome vnto Charon the Ferryman of Hell for to serry the soules ouer the riuers that were there to passe ouer Thomas That was very good cheape But I do thinke that there passed many together at once For the soules are not very heaâ—y Hillarius According to the bodies from which they came out Thomas And if they had not wherewith to pay should they be constrayned to retourne to lyue againe and to continue and abide heere for want of money Hillarius They had that opinion that they should continue in great torment if they coulde not passe For they could not be purged of their sinnes nor enter into the fields Eliseas with the blessed but that they must firste passe the riuer As men haue made vs to beleeue of the soules who haue not ended their penaunce They doe also beleeue that if their bodyes be not honestly buryed according to their estate and degrée they cannot passe in an hundreth yeares but must be wandring héere and there vntill such time as their bodyes be buryed or vntill the terme of an hundreth yeares which was assigned vnto them for their payne and punishment be expired the which things the Poet hath comprised altogether in one selfe place by his verses of which I wil recite vnto you one parte of those that agree best to our matter He speaketh in that place of the things that Aâ—neas hath séene béeing descended into Hell with Sibilla the which afterwardes hée expoundeth and sheweth playnely whâ—t they signifie He first describeth that which they haue séene there practised saying HEere now the way doth lead to Lymbo lake and filthy stoud Whose chaÌ„nell choked is with troublous grouÌ„ds of miry mud And belching boyles a sand vvhich to the bakes it throws froÌ„ deeps A dredfull ferriman that streme vvith visage lothsom keepes In tartred vvretched weede and Charon he by name doth hight His hoary bush and bearde both ouergrovvue foule vndight With skowling steming eyes from his shoulders down his loyns His filthy mantell hangs whom sluttish knot vncomly ioyns Himselfe vvith pyked poale his boat doth guyde bears a charge Transporting still the soules in rusty dusty canckred barge Well aged novv but sappy strength he keepes of greener yeares To this place al the rout doth dravv theÌ„selues with louring cheeres By nombers great both men and vvomen dead nor long delayde With Princes preased boyes and girles that wedlocke neuer sayde And slouring youth that in their parents time were laid in ground And all that lyfe had borne about that banke they clustered round As thicke as leaues of trees among the vvoods in vvynter vvinde When first to ground they fal or lyke as foules of vvater kinde Assembling flock themselues when yere of frost hath first begunne And ouer Sâ—â—s they seeke in vvarmer lands to take the Sunne They stood and crauing cride that first transport they might before And stretching held their hands desiring much the further shore The churlish ferruman novv these novv those by course
of them which Dauid hath written of his enemies saying their throat is an open sepulchre And that which Esay speaketh off saying hell gapeth and openeth hir mouth meruailous wide For of all that they can once lay hand on nothing euer retourneth againe no more then from the mouth of hell and graue But which is worse the graue consumeth deuoureth but the dead bodies but these do deuour both the quick the dead And we may very wel say y these are the Harpyes of whom Virgile maketh mention off But bicause they are faire and goodly sepulchres as the Scribes Pharises who do neuer cease to crye Corban Corban giue giue offer offer and as the daughter of the Horseléech Bringe bringe to the candles of the good Sainct Bicause they are so beautifull pollished without y poore world cannot know theÌ„ although they do sée them deuoure eate vp widowes houses before their eies vnder colour of long praiers For they haue those goodly habites of religion goodly Ornaments Ceremonies goodly names titles and that goodly appearaunce of holinesse which do couer beautifie those sepulchres tombes in such sort that men cannot perceiue the filthinesse infection that is there hidden and kepte close within but passe ouer it without any aduisement as men doe by the Sepulchres Theophilus They are more open and dyscouered then néede required For GOD hathe nowe raysed vppe a people whome they woulde not haue who haue in suche sorte remoued all that filthe and infectyon that it stincketh throughoute the whole worlde And we must not be abashed if they call them the Sepulchers of Iesus Christ and though they doe meruaylously stincke sith that Iesus Christ is altogether deade in them and to them and that they haue nothing at all For if Christ lyue not in vs what other thing can wée bee but dead carryons stincking and infectious who doe not onely rotte and consume themselues but doe rotte and consume with them all other things Eusebius All of you doe cry out agaynst the Priestes Haue you now all sayd It was not inough for Hillarie to speake euill and backebite but that you must ayde and helpe him Theophilus and meddle also as well as hée Theophilus You neuer sawe a man that delyteth lesse to speake euill and backebite and to heare euill speakinge and tales But truth constrayneth mee and you oughte to vnderstande that to speake truth for the health of ones neighbour is not to speake euill backebite and slaunder any man Would to God I coulde speake as much good of them as of the Apostles For I doe loue better to praise their vertue charitie and mercy then to dispise their vices crueltie auarice and rapacitie But what will you that I speake If I doe sée a poore man who is wandring alone in a forrest or woode full of théeues am not I bounde to giue him warning of the daunger he is lyke to fall in If I say nothing vnto him am not I guyltie of his death sith that I knew the daunger And if I encourage him to enter and tell him that there is no daunger am not I then more culpable and worthy to be taken for a murtherer of my poore brother But if I doe admonish him of the daungers and of the théeues Doe I wrong vnto the theenes in callyng them by their name Shoulde I doe better and according to Gods commaundemet to call them good people for to saue their honour and that I should put my brother into their handes to haue them to cutte his throate What goodnesse can I finde in those who from the greatest to y least are al excommunicated iudged Simoniacks and Heretickes vnworthy of all Ecclesiasticall honour and office not onely by the authoritie of the holy Scriptures but also by their owne councells decrées and Canons For how many Councells Decrées and Canons be there that doe forbid to demaunde and take giftes rewardes presents hire or siluer nor any thing whatsoeuer it bée for creame baptisme orders laying on of hands for y earth nor Sepulture neyther for Sacraments nor whatsoeuer office is in the Church vnder payne of excommunication and to be holden and reputed Simoniackes Heretickes and Sacriledgers and depriued and deposed from theire offices and honours and not onely they that receiue the money but also those who doe giue it for such things Thomas There shall be then by that compte no Christian who shall not be excommunicated For among the priests there is not one but hath receiued money for such thinges nor among the people but hath disbursed somewhat Theophilus Therefore you may consider what communion may be in y Popish Church For Saint Peter did not only curse in the authoritie of God Symon the Sorcerer of whome Simony and Simoniackes haue taken their name but also the money that he offred for to buy the gifte of God withall Now if Symon for offering y money hath receiued such malediction what ought it to be vppon them that doe cleane contrary to Saynt Peter who doe not onely receiue but also doe compell the poore people to giue it them I doe not héereby meane that the true Euangelycall Priests and true Pastors of the Church are not worthy of their nourishment and rewarde But I speake agaynst those Merchaunts which are in the Church of God whom Saynt Peter hath forespoken who haue both GOD and the Diuill to sell Paradise â—nd Hell holy things and prophane things and which doe exercise merchandises of all things and are polluted and dâ—filâ—d with all Simonie and Sacriledges that they themselues haue bene constrayned to condemone them And he that will not beléeue me lette him read Platine in the lyues of the Popes and the decrees of the Councell of Elybertine holden in Spayne in the time of Constantine and that of Tholet holden in the yeare 713 and that of Calcedone And the 4. of Carthage And the Councell of Tiburien and Varensian who doe condempne namely those that take money for the buryalls saying after this manner Wherefore dost thou sell the earth Remember that thou art earth and into the earth shalt retourne agayne For the earthe is not mans but as the Psalmist Dauid witnesseth the earth is the Lords and all that therein is If thou doe sell the earth thou shalt be holden guyltie of larcenie as he that attributeth vnto himselfe the thing of an other mans Thou hast receyued it of God fréely giue it fréely And bicause it is altogether forbidden to all Christians to sell the earth vnto the dead and to deny vnto them the graue and burial which is due vnto them Item we must commaunde according to the authoritie of the Canons that one should not demaunde or receiue any thing for mens burialls nor for their graues And hée that would sée the opinion of Gregorie lette him reade the Epistle wherein he rebuked Ianuarius Bishop
ende that by them you shoulde satisfie for your sinnes or that you shoulde merite the kingdome of heauen and bée iustyfied For the faythfull man hath obteyned alreadye all that by the fayth of Iesus Christe whiche is our wisedome ryghteousnesse sanctification thorowe whose merite Paradise is gyuen vnto vs For that cause the holye Apostle calleth the eternall lyfe the gift of god Wherefore wée maye vnderstande that we meryte it not thorowe our good déedes but it is gyuen vs froelye thorowe Gods lyberalytie Euen as the Fathers enheritaunce is gyuen vnto the sonne not for that he hath deserued it but bycause that hée pleased hym so for that hee loued him and that hée is hys chylde and wyll gyue hym his goodes fróely Otherwyse grace shoulde bée no more grace but debte On the contrary when Saynct Paul did speako of the eternall death hée calleth it the wages of sinne declaringe thereby that man hathe well deserued it and that hée can deserue none other thinge but that that wages is due vnto hym for a recompence of the seruice that hée hathe done vnto the Diuell the Prince of this worlde euen as the wages which is payde vnto a souldyer for bearynge of weapons vnder hys Capitayne Wee 〈◊〉 then sée that the woorkes done by the chyldren of God and the seruice that the Angelles dooâ— vnto hym doe tende all vnto one ende to witte to glorifie GOD and to sanctyfie his name Euen as then the Angelles serue not GOD for to merite Paradyse of whiche they are alreadye in possession neyther for satisfaction of theire sinnes of whithe they are not entangled But onelye for the loue that they haue in GOD and the desyre of hys glorye so Gods electe doe regarde none other thinge for they are alreadye washed and purged from theire sinnes by the bloudâ— of Iesus Christ and they re hearte puryfied by the faythe in hym and thorowe the woorde that they haue hearde of hym And are already possessors of the kingdome of heaueÌ„ in hope the which is no lesse sure and certeine then if the thinge were present and that the Angels are assured of that that they haue Therefore the holy Apostle sayth that wee are saued thorowe hope and that Iesus Christ doth make vs sitte in the heauenly places And therefore when God doth chastise and cortect vs in this worlde that is as the Apostle also writeth vnto the Corinthians for to correct and chastise vs that we should not be damned wyth the worlde and the Infidels bicause that we are yet in the waye and capable of chastisment and ainendement But there is an other reason after thys lyfe héere when wee are out of the waye and néede and that wee cannot any more empayre nor amend And therefore the Lorde doth chasten vs héere as the good Father who beateth not his sonne for to haue any recompence thereby for the faulte that hée hath committed For the paine of the childe bringeth no profite vnto the Father Also he doth not beat him through rigor nor throughe mallice that hée hath to take vengeaunce of him For hée loueth him as his childe and the fatherly affection maketh him soone forget the faultes and iniuries that he hath done vnto him As it is cleerely shewed vnto vs in the Father of the prodigall childe Eusebius What hath the father then to do to chastise him Theophilus If hée knewe that he woulde neuer doe any more fault he would soone pardon him without any punishment But fearing least thorow his great patience â— gentlenesse shoulde fall agayne hee is constrained to beate and chastise him although that he doe it not willingly but it to that ende to make hym more prudent and wyse and to better aduise himselfe in time to come and that he take diligent heede not to sall againe in y fault or in any other greater The which is no more to be feared in those whome GOD hath called from this worlde Wherefore they cannot anye more rectius punishment whiche shoulde be to câ—nâ—en them as is y same of the father towards his child for to amend him But if there hée a punishment it is rather to declare the iudgement the seuerity of God towards the wicked and reprobates and to manyfest his goodnes and mercy towardes his elect As the Iudge doth condemne the traytor murtherer and other malefactors that haue deserued death not for to haue any recompence nor those vnto whom they haue done wronge and iniury For what recompence can they haue by their deathes neyther do they it for to cause them to walke in time to come more vprightly sith that they take from them their life But for to satisfie righteousnes and to mayntaine it to that end that other may take example and that they may know how auayleable it is to haue followed vertue and eschewed vice Eusebius To what purpose then doth Sainct Iohn in his reuelation say Their works do follow them what workes do follow them but the good déedes that men doe for them after their death For those that they haue done whilest they lyued went before not after Wherefore it followeth that there are some other which do profit them Theophilus Sainct Iohn speaketh it bycause that their workes do beare witnes that they are the children of god He sayth not other mens workes but theyr owne workes For as man lyueth of his owne soule and not of the soule of an other mans euen so doth the righteous man of his faith And as the righteous man lyueth of his faith not of the faith of an other euen so shal euery one be iudged according to his workes and not after those that other men shall doe For it is written Euery one shall beare his owne burthen And therefore Iesus Christ sayth by thy worde thou shalt bee iustified and by thy wordes thou shalt be condemned That is so saye thy wordes and thy workes shal beare witnes of thy heart and by them thou shalt bée iuslified that is to saye absolued declared and pronounced iust and righteous Oâ— by them thou shalt be condemâ—ned knowen and iudged worthy of death and condemnation Not that God néedeth any witnes of our workes for to know whether we are worthy of absolution or condeÌ„nation For he knoweth y hearts néedeth none other witnes but his owne But y scripture vseth such maÌ„ner of speaking for to apply it to our capacitie for to manifest declare vnto vs better the Iust IudgemeÌ„t of god which wil shew foorth y hâ—pecriâ—e of maÌ„ heart For maÌ„ how wicked soeuer his heart be he wold alwaies hide it if one put it to his own coÌ„â—câ—éce although y he do condemne it he wil not for y leaue off to aduasice brag he y le an honest man vntil such time as he he také with his wicked déed as y theefe with his steaâ—ing For he is so peruers wicked
although y be be taken with the deed he wil excuse himself And as y shameles whore is not a shamed to deny y which we see with our eyes hanole with our hands As we haue an example in Came. Although that he killed his brother and y his handes were yet all blouddy and wette with the bloud that he â—ad shed it seemeth to heare him speake that God did vnto him greate miury and wronge in asking him where he is And therefore God would vanquishe the malyce and peruersitie of mans hearte and condemne it by the workes that are manifest for to declare vnto him and to make him confesse by the fruite that he is the roote aâ—d the tree to the ende that he may not glorify himself to be the Figge the O life tree when one doth emdently shewe vnto him the thornes thistles that it hath born And euen so euery creature is constrayned to acknowledge and confâ—sse that the iudgement of God is iust and that it consisteth in all truth and equitie Now the workes y men do for vs after that wee bee dead are not ours Wherefore wee cannot saye that they follow vs For it is another matter to bee in the way and iourney and to haue already ended his iourney and to be arriued at the port whylest that we are in the course of this present life he taketh vs as a sree which yet groweth the which one may dresse and proyne for to make him beare fruite But when he is once cut downe ther is no more hope he lieth wher lie falleth he must trauayle no more afterwards In like maner may we iudge of man Whilest y he is in the way that he is in his course sight one may aide him by admonitioÌ„s entreatings other morkes of charitie which we owe y one to y other whilst y we are herein the work of god for vs to helpe the one the other to obteine win the victory But after that he hath called vs from the worke in the which he hath set vs wée must attend and looke no more but for the rewarde and Crowne of righteousenes the which the righteous Iudge shall giue vnto vs as Sainct Paul hoped for himselfe as we haue fought for him the good fight and haue fulfilled our course and haue kept the faith vnto the ende On the contrary we must looke for feare confusion and eternall death as the slougthfull seruant vnfaithfull and vngrations we haue hid away and stollen the Talent away from our Maister without bringing vnto him any profit Therefore Sainct Iohn saith Bring foorth fruites worthy of repentance that is to say thorow which you shewe foorth that truely you repent you of your sinnes and that you haue amended your euill life For the are is put vnto the roote of the tree so that euery tree whiche bringeth not foorth good fuite is hewen downe and cast in to the fire Uppon that maâ—ter Sainct Augustine did writte vnto Macedonius after this manner There is no other place for to correct and amende manners then in this life For after this life euery one shall haue that that hee hath gotteÌ„ here And in another place he saith In this world the mercy of god helpeth those y repâ—t But in y world to come repeÌ„tance profiteth not but we must riÌ„der accompt of our works Liberty of repeÌ„tance is only giuen vnto vs in this life after y we be dead there is no more licrÌ„ce of correctioÌ„ Now is y time of mercy after wards shal be the time of iudgment And in expouÌ„ding those words of Iesus Christ Hee which beleeueth not is already iudged saith after this maÌ„ner The iugâ—eiâ—eÌ„t appereth not yet but y iudgemeÌ„t is already done For y Lord knoweth who are his He knoweth those which abyde looking farryng for the crown those which abyde looking for the fire Moreouer Sainct Iohn Chusostome speaketh more plainely confirming that which I haue said in such words Prepare and make reaby thy works for the end and prepare thy self to the way and if thou haste taken any thing by violence from anye man restore it againe and make restitution and say with Zachens if I haue taken from any man by forged cauilatioÌ„ I restore him foure fould If thou art angry with any man agree with him before that thou do come vnto iudgement dispatche here al things that without let thou mayst sée that Iudictall seate All the while that wee are here in this world we haue goodly hopes but assone as we shal be gone from thence it lyeth no more in oure power to doe penaunce nor to deface and put out our sinnes For after the end of our life there is no more occasion of merites no more then there is vnto those the play at prises games to obtaine crownes and rewardes after that the combat play and prises are finished and ended For he which in this present life hath not washed away his sinnes afterwards he shal finde no consolation For in hell as it is written who shall confesse thee That is to say who shall prayse thee in the graue And by good reason For this is the time of the Theators of Combals Playes and Prises But the shal be the time of the Crownes rewards and salaryes Also let vs not thinke when we shall be come thyther that we shall haue mercy which do nothing at all wherefore we ought to haue pardon No though Abraham Noe Iob and Daniell did pray for vs Whilest then wee haue time let vs prepare for our selues great trust and assurance towards god And Sainct Hierome saith no lesse confessing that in the other world And Sainct Ambrose is of the same opinion saying Dauid required that his sinnes might bee pardoned him before that he departed out of this life For he that shall not here in this life receaue forgiuenesse of his sinnes shal not haue it in the other he shall not haue it bicause he shall not haue the power to come and attaine to the eternal life For the forgiuenes of sinnes is the eternall life Therfore saith hee pardon mee O Lorde that I may bee comforted before that I goo and shall be no more And therefore I greatly meruatle of that papisticall doctrine which is so repugnant both to the holy scriptures and to the witnesse of the auncient Doctors of the Churche Sainct Cyprian hath written in the Sermon that he made of the immortalitie that the faithfull that do dye haue taken white robes and garments By which he meaneth that they are come to the beatitude and felicitie and feacheth that we muste wéepe no more for the dead Sith that they are alreadie in the estate of felicitie But me thinkes that the Priestes do not take them to bee assured of the eternall life whom they lodge in their Purgatory but that from Purgatory they may yet
canon which was made But yet at this day that errour continueth among the Bohemians and Morauians the which yet neuerthelesse the Papists themselues doe not allow no more then that which S. Cyprian Origene did which did distribute the supper vnto young children when their fathers and mothers brought them in their armes in comming to communicate the same And they gaue vnto them not onely the breade but also the cup. Now let vs thinke if already such errors were about the sacraments in that time there what may chaunce afterwards For Cyprian reigned about the yeare after the death and passion of Iesus Christ two hundreth and fiftie Those worthy men would not haue so much attributed vnto the Sacraments if they had not so much taken to the rigor and to the letter the words of Iesus Christ Of the like beginning came vp the error of those which estéemed thought the he which after that he was baptised hauing once receiued the supper could neuer be damned or at the least should be once delyuered from damnation bicause that Iesus Christ hath said I am that liuing bread that came downe from heauen if anyman eate of this bread hée shall liue for euer They vrge vpon the letter said that Iesus Christ could not lye which hath promised the same Yet neuertheles Sainct Augustine rebuketh confuteth their errour Beholde y absurdities into which men do fall for fault of wel examining the Scriptures when they doe take them according to the rigor of the letter For whosoeuer wil according to the opinion which the Papistes haue of the Sacrament of the alter take litterally y which Iesus Christ said of eating of his flesh drinking his bloud there is no doubt but that we shall be constrayned to confesse that all those which haue once taken the supper are all saued and y all those which shall not once receiue it are all damned And so it shal be no lesse requisite to giue y supper vnto the young childrē to giue power vnto womē to giue it them then y baptisme they y would take the words those matters by y rigor And therfore for to retourne to the place by thée alledged by the absurdities which should follow of thy expositiō the which do repugne against the grace of Iesus Christ as I haue declared vnto thee thou maist wel know that we must not vnderstand that place after that manner as thou doest expounde it For Iesus Christ speaketh not in that place there of visible baptisme nor of his institution But speaketh of the regeneration of man and sheweth what thing he must haue for to be a Christian to wit that it is necessary that he doe renounce forsake his first generation natiuitie which is altogether corrupted and cursed and that he be regenerated by the spirit of God and thorowe the incorruptible séede of his woorde insomuch that he is made a newe creature bearinge the Image of Iesus Christ the true celestiall Adam euen as hée hath borne that of the olde and terrestriall Adam And therefore hath hée sayd Except a man be borne from aboue or a new be cannot sée the kingdome of god And after he expoundeth it by the other proposition following which signifieth none other thing then that which hée hath already sayd before For to be borne from aboue or to bée borne againe and to be borne of water and the holy Ghost are equiualent manners of speakings And the two propositions of Iesus Christ are equipolent y one to the other ther is none other difference sauing that y last is more ample and expoundeth the first For sith that our first natiuitie is carnal it must be y the second be spirituall Sith that the first man is of the earth earthly it is requisite that the second which is from heauen be heauenly and spirituall Now that regeneration transformation cannot be made but by the spirite of god For as it is written in that same place That which is borne of the flesh is flesh That that is borne of the spirit is spirit And therefore Iesus Christ willing to expoūd vnto Nicodemus y which he had said before Except y a man be borne frō aboue or a new he cannot see the kingdome of God Afterwardes saith which shall not bée borne of water and the holy Ghost bicause that the holy Ghost author of that regeneration is giuen from aboue which worketh a secōd natiuitie in vs which is celestiall and spirituall Eusebius But what néeded it to adde the water was it not sufficient to name the holy Ghost Theophilus Wherefore hath Iohn Baptist sayd speaking of the ministry of Iesus Christ That he would baptise with the holye Ghoste and with fire what néeded it sith that he named the holy Ghost to adde vnto it the fire Shall it be therefore necessary to constitute a baptisme of the fire as some do say that some Christians which are amongst y Indians Aethiopians Persians do who for that cause did vse the fire for baptisme of the fire Eusebius One may well perceiue there that Sainct Iohn taketh the fire by a Metaphore and that he vnderstandeth no other thing by the fire then the holy Ghost of whom he hath already spokē the better to expound the nature of the same for as the fire is pure cleane and cannot suffer any spot or filth but purgeth maketh cleane illuminateth the consciences enflameth them to the loue of god For which cause he was sent vnto y Apostles in y liknes of tongues of fire the which S. Iohn did foresée forespeak off vsing such wordes Theophilus Thy exposition doth please me very much Wherefore if thou makest it no difficultie to take in that place the fire for the spirit of God for more ample expositiō of his nature properties wherfore oughtest thou to make a doubt to take y water in that place for that same signification séeing y agréeing y the water hath with the nature of y holy Ghost For there is no lesse reason but a great deale more appearance For Sainct Iohn putteth the holy Ghost first the fire afterwards Wherfore it séemeth either that he vnderstandeth two thinges seperated or that he expoundeth the thing more cléere by a more darker thing Although that thy aunswere doth sufficiently satisfye that obiection But in that place Iesus Christ putteth y water first afterwards as if hée would expound his Metaphore and comparison and giue vnto it more greater brightnesse he declareth what he would signifie by that water to wit the holy Ghost vnto whom he giueth that name for many causes First bicause that as the fire is an element meruailous pure and cleane and so necessary vnto mans life that it is impossible for men to lack it so is it of y water the which is also by nature cléere pure and
and minutes Theophilus Thou séest howe hée is already iudged and yet hée is not He is sufficiently iudged and condemned as to himselfe sith that he hath his conscience his confession his witnesse and his processe against himselfe and that he accompteth himselfe alredy as dead But neuerthelesse there is yet a more greater horror to be brought to iudgemeÌ„t to heare the sentence of his Iudge to be condemned and executed openly notwithstanding that he is already sufficiently condemned being in the prison yet neuertheles the Iudge must pronounce openly his last sentence that his iudgement be put in execution As much may wée say of the Diuels and reprobate Whilest that the wicked doe liue héere in this worlde they are lyke vnto malefactors before that they are apprehended and taken When God calleth them from this worlde hée cyteth them before hym â—or to appeare in iudgement And they are as though they were cast in prison lookinge for their latter sentence which shall bee giuen them in that great â—aye in which all processe all causes and appeales shall ende Beholde the cause wherefore Sainct Peter maketh mention of the bondes and chaines with which GOD bindeth y diuels which he hath reserued to his iudgemeÌ„t vsing humaine and materiall comparisons for to declare vnto vs y heauenly spirituall things That is the cause wherefore the wicked spirites doe pray vnto Iesus Christ that hée will not sende them into the déepe complaininge and lamentinge bicause that they did féele by his comming their iudgement to approch nigh And therefore they cried O Iesu thou sonne of Dauid art thou come hether to torment vs before our time be come We cannot doubt but that they were already tormented before as the malefactor which is in the â—â—ockes and chaines But they haue dreadful feare when they do sée their Iudge and that they doe féele their last sentence to drawe nigh Thomas It is to be meruailed at how the one of the matters bringeth in the other and giueth vnderstandinge of it Thou hast deliuered me from one great doubt thou hast instructed me how I ought to aunswere vnto a very hard question the which was propunded vnto me not long a goe that is to say If after that the soule is seperated from the body whether y it goeth straight way into Paradise or into hell For if it goeth into Paradise or into hell it seemeth that the iudgement is alredy done that we must tary no longer for it or if we ought to looke and tary for an other that y soules of the faithfull or vnfaythfull haue not yet a place assigned vnto them for to receyue felicitie or malediction And therefore some doe saye that they sleepe vntill that great iourney But thou hast taken from mée the doubt and hast satisfied mee thorowly Theophilus Wee must not bee abashed althoughe those that sleepe doe dreame But we ought rather to bee abashed to see those that be awake to dreame and to beleeue and giue credite vnto the dreames of the sleepers For if it were so the woorkes of God agaynst their nature should rather diminish then increase and thâ— faythfull ought more to feare the corporall de 〈◊〉 then thâ— vnfaythfull For by the death the vnfaythfull should bée at rest and the faythfull shoulde bée depriued from that portion of the eternall felicitie the which they haue alredy tasted off in this world the which they ought to haue mor amply after that they be delyuered from the prison of this mortall body I beléeue most assureâ—ly that if Sainct Paul had thought that hée must haue slepte so longe 〈◊〉 in bodye and soule after his decease wythout hauing more â—â—â—ple fruition of the heauenly goodnesse and ioyes then hée had in this worlde that hée would neuer haue sayde What to choose I wotto not I am constrayned of two thinges I desire to be loosed and to bee wyth Christ which thing is best of all Neuerthelesse to abyde in the fleshe is more néedfull for you For in stéede to receyue more greater goodnesse as hée desired hée was â—â—mpayred and made worse and that portion of the heauenlye goodnesse that hée had already tasted off lyuing in thys bodye was better for him then to bée altogether spoyled of it and to sléepe beeing insensible as a stone two or thrée thousande yeares Hillarius Cycero was but a Panim and an heathen man who was not very certeine nor assured of the eternall lyfe nor perfectly resolued of the immortalytie of the soules but yet neuerthelesse hee sayth that he would not lyue nyntie yeares in such sorte that after that he had depassed thrée score yeares hée shoulde sléepe the residue of nentie yeares But whiche is more hée addeth is that matter the Hogges woulde not desyre that muche lesse I By that accompte hée esteemeth the lyfe of Hogs better then that of man all the whyle as hée abydeth a sléepe bycause that the sleeper is an Image of death the whiche alwayes representeth hymselfe in sléeping Theophilus And therefore I dooe conclude that notwithstandinge that the Lorde by hys prouydence hath constituted and appointed that the bodyes doe sléepe in the earth as in their hedde vntyll the resurrectyon that the number of their bretheren shal be fulfilled yet neuertheles the faithful nor the vnfaithfull neuer are without their Paradise their hell the which the more as they doe approch to their consummation ende so much y more doe they encrease augment vntill such time as they are come vntill the latter degrée of felicitâ—e or infelicitie beneâ—iction or malediction Thomas After the same manner as thou procéedest thou wilt leaue vs neither Lymbe nor Purgatory Theophilus As touching the Lymbe if one doe take it for the bosome of Abraham and the condition of the â—uncient fathers which haue bene before the comming of Iesus Christ I will not much dispute of the wordes if we agrée in the thing I am well contented to confesse that the condition of the auncientes as well those that bée lining as those that bée dead compared vnto ours in respect of the same may be estéemed as a prison in price of a palaice If we doe beholde the shadowes and figures vnder whose darknesse they haue bene deteyned and kept in respect of vs and the seruitude and bondage of the Mosaicall lawe vsinge suche comparisons as Sainct Paul who compareth all this auncient people vnto young children which are vnder their Tutor and Master and vnto seruauntes which are vnder the feare of their Master in comparison of the Christian people the which hée compaseth vnto the true natural perfect children which are already out of boÌ„dage gouernment saying that they haue not receiued y spirit of bondage feare but the spirit of adoption of libertie Vpon which we ought to note y the Apostle denieth not simply but that those good auncient fathers haue had the same spirit of