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A20000 Dialogicall discourses of spirits and divels declaring their proper essence, natures, dispositions, and operations, their possessions and dispossessions : with other the appendantes, peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points, verie conducent, and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement, for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts / by [brace] Iohn Deacon, Iohn Walker... Deacon, John, fl. 1585-1616.; Walker, John, preacher. 1601 (1601) STC 6439; ESTC S323 312,434 405

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sir we also our selues would gladly see that same Iesus whom the world so egerly affecteth and followeth Andrew no sooner perceiued their sute but he acquainted Phillip therewith and they both together propounded the whole matter to Iesus Now then Iesus considering in the zeale of those greekes how all nations affected his preaching and miracles and came flocking vnto him he answered Andrew and Philip thus I perceiue by all signes that the very hower it selfe is now come wherein the sonne of man must be glorified in the actuall manifestation of his effectuall power vpon satan by his sufferings and death Which his said death I assure you must now necessarily succeed to the actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest a very liuely resemblance whereof you may plainely behold in the wheate corne Which vnlesse it doth fall into the ground and die abideth alone but if it doe die it bringeth foorth abundance of fruit And euen so if this body of mine were once wrapped within the bowels of the earth by the dart of death there would vndoutedly spring many moe branches from thence as from that liuing roote which quickneth many to eternall life Neither let any be so dismaied with the sight of my death as that therefore they themselues would not gladly vnde●goe the like shame of the crosse For whosoeuer is so taken vp with the loue of this life as he would not for my sake be throughly willing to put ouer the same to the extreamest aduentures of all that man without question shall loose his life Whereas they that for my sake doe make themselues ready to forgoe if neede so require their very life in this world they shal be sure to preserue the same to eternall life Yea and euen you also your selues whom I haue especially chosen my ministers to declare my said death to the world if in your said ministery you desire to serue me aright you likewise must willingly follow me your Lord and Maister now leading this dance vnto death For wheresoeuer I am there must my ministers willingly be Neither haue I any other purpose in suffering death for you but to giue you an example to follow my steps Wherein if you readily serue me assure your selues that then my father in heauen will honour you highly In deed this corporall death I confesse is extreamely fearefull to flesh and bloud For euen my very soule I assure you is so intollerably tormented with the terrours thereof as I would earnestly entreate my father that the approching hower of this my death might presently passe away were it not that euen therefore I came vnto this hower In consideration of which my determined death I will the more earnestly endeuour my selfe to vndergoe with patience the whole bickering whatsoeuer by crying incessantly vnto my father and saying Oh father glorifie thy owne name in these my appointed sufferings Moreouer to the end you may plainely perceiue the fruits of my praier you your selues shal be eare witnesses of my father his answere from heauen saying My son I haue both glorified it before in thy conception thy birth thy baptisme thy fasting thy preaching and miracles and I will now glorify it againe in thy death and resurrection because therein shal be actually effected the finall ouerthrow of satan his kingdom And howsoeuer the people here present may happely imagine this sound from heauen to be but a thunder or some voice of an Angel at the most yet I assure you it is the very thundring speech of my father himselfe Neither came this voice onely because of my selfe but for your sakes especially To teach you assuredly that euen now is the iudgement and reformation of this world because euen now must the prince of this world be actually cast foorth from thence as touching his actuall possession Yea and this so glorious a conquest ouer satan must euen now be actually effected by the power of my death wherein if I were once lift vp from the earth and fastned withall vpon the crosse I would then actually determine the actuall dominion of the diuel yea and would effectually draw his captiuated prisoners vnder my princely regiment Now all this haue I purposely spoken vnto you to shew you before hand what death I must die that so soone as you perceiue me to giue vp the ghost you may then certeinely assure your selues that the whole worke of your redemption from satan from death and from hell is actually effected finished Thus much for analysing the text it selfe Wherin you haue heard the occasion coherence proceeding and the orderly conclusion of all the premisses Lycanthropus The exposition is plaine in my simple conceite let vs therefore now heare the testimonie of writers for further confirmation thereof Orthodoxus You shall And first to begin with Augustine he saith that by the iudgement of the world we must there vnderstand not the iudgement of damnation which is reserued to the last day but the iudgement of discretion which consisteth wholie in reforming the worlde by the expelling of Satan For the diuell saith he possessed mankinde and held them guiltie of punishment through the handwriting of sinne He did dominier in the harts of Infidels and drewe them being deceiued and captiuated to worship the creature by forsaking the Creator Howbeit through that selfesame faith of Christ which by his death and resurrection was actually established and through his precious bloud which was shedde for remission of sinnes a thousand beleeuers being then actually freed from the power of the diuell were effectually coupled to the bodie of Christ and by the operation of his spirit became liuely members of his mysticall bodie For so Christ expounds himselfe in the very next words saying Now is the prince of this worlde cast foorth Vnderstanding by the particle now that which was then to bee done at his death not that which he was finally to accomplish at the generall iudgement The Lord therefore foresawe that worke which he knewe should be effected after his death and glorification namely that many thousands throughout the world should faithfully beleeue in his death From whose harts the diuel who worketh effectually in thē before should actually be driuen out by Christs death and finally be subdued through faith in his name Exorcistes The diuell then it should seeme by your speech was neuer driuen foorth from the patriarkes before the passion of Christ. Orthodoxus Not so For Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world Neither speake we in this place of the effectual but of the actuall conquest which he made ouer Satan Yea and this I further auouch that euen as the particle now in an especiall regard of Christes actuall conquest respecteth especially the verie hower of his death so surely in some consideration also of Christs effectuall eonquest the said particle now may likewise haue a more speeiall reference to
be plainely discerned the chosen seruants of God from the confounded slaues of Satan Because now shall the prince of this world be actually cast out by the effectuall power of my death and resurrection Thus then we haue briefly heard those speciall scriptures which doe purposely point at the effectuall working power of Christ before his death Lycanthropus Let vs heare in like sort those other scriptures which doe purposely handle the said effectuall power of Christ now since his death Orthodoxus Content First therefore the holy Ghost saith thus to the Hebrewes For as much as the children are pertakers of flesh and bloud Christ also himselfe tooke part with them that he might destroy through death him that had power ouer death that is the diuell Wherein first you see he puts downe the incarnation of Christ and then next he sheweth the maine cause of his saide incarnation namely that he might destroy the diuell Now then this same destruction of the diuell it must in no wise be vnderstood of the essence but of the actions of Satan For the diuell as touching his essence or being still liueth and liue must for euer Howbeit concerning his actions I meane his tyrannicall dominion and actuall power he may verie fitly be said to be now destroied Because howsoeuer satan be accounted a prince of this world and therefore endeuoureth verie proudly to dominire ouer all yet when he came vnto Christ he found nothing at all in him that is no such matter of subiection as he happily imagined Neither could he possibly haue any power ouer him at all or no further power at the most then the brusing of Christ his heele I meane the crucifying of his flesh And this one worke of satan was that which accidentally procured his proper destruction For therefore did Christ take flesh vpon him that euen in the flesh he might conquere him who had conquered flesh and through death might destroy him that had power ouer death namely the diuell as was shewed before And this as it hath reference to the actions and not the essence of satan so shall it giue much light to the matter in hand if we precisely examine the verie word it selfe which the holy Ghost here obserueth For he saith not that Christ hath abated infringed or weakened but that he hath destroied the diuell that is that he hath vtterly cut off exiled and banished his tyrannicall dominion For so much the word tsamath importeth which signifieth to chaine vp to exterminate to driue out and in such sort to consume a thing as there remaineth no hope at all of anie possible recouerie Yea and the Greeke word catargeo portendeth fully as much Now then howsoeuer Christ may truely be said to haue destroied the diuell yet this word destruction hath not properly any reference to the essence of satan for therein he liueth and liue must for euer as hath beene declared Neither may it be fitly applied to Satan his power of obssession which is not yet vtterly destroied for thereby he assaulteth circumuenteth and tempteth men still to the end of the world And therefore it must necessarily and more especially be appropriated to his power of possession which was not onely much maimed but vtterly destroied by the death of our Sauiour although yet we denie not but that this vtter destruction both may be and is also in some sort vnderstood of the whole dominion and power of the diuell whatsoeuer All which his said powers were so mightily weakened by the sufferings and resurrection of Christ as thereby he shall neuer be able any more now to hurt the elect Because Christ taking part with them in the flesh hath destroied through death him that had power ouer death namely the diuell And hereunto accordeth that which the holy Ghost elsewhere auoucheth saying that Christ hath appeared to loosen dissolue or destroy the workes of the diuell Exorcistes That destruction is to be vnderstood of annihilating the venim and sting of sinne and death and not of a finall determining of satan his power of actuall possession Orthodoxus Herein your speech is derogatorious to the efficacie and dignitie of Christs death in that by restrayning the same as you doe to the onely annihilating of the venemous sting of sinne and of death you vtterly exclude the effectual working power thereof from the actuall determination of satan his actuall possession For consider you not what peculiar action therein the Scriptures impose vpon Christ First he hath been from the worlds foundation peculiarly appointed of God to be that promised seede which should bruse the serpents head Then next he is vndoubtedly that stronger man who was to binde the strong armed man and to deuide his spoiles Both which places as they plainly import some peculiar action to be performed by Christ so doe they vndoubtedly binde the actuall accomplishment thereof vpon his owne person alone and that also euen in the future time Then after the fulnes of time our Sauiour Christ being come in the flesh he flatly affirmeth that euen now shall the prince of this world be cast out Limitting you see the actuall effecting of that selfesame peculiar action so foretold as before vnto the present time of his sufferings Moreouer after the actuall accomplishment thereof by his death the holy Ghost else where affirmeth accordingly that he hath by death destroied him who had power ouer death and againe that Christ hath appeared to destroy the works of the diuel Both which last places of scripture as they plainely import some speciall action effected by Christ in the preter time as did those other before in the future time so surely Christ after he was come in the flesh did likewise alotte the actuall performance thereof vnto that present time of his death wherein he was actually to finish his predetermined conquest ouer satan himselfe Now then this said actuall accomplishment of some special action thus actually effected by Christ must necessarily haue a speciall reference to the finall determination either of Satan his power of possession or of his power of obsession But not of his power of obsession for therin he still assaulteth and tempteth mens minds and therefore of his power of possession as was shewed before Lycanthropus Let this suffice for the sence of those seueral scriptures which both before and since the comming of Christ do point foorth vnto vs his effectuall working power vpon satan and now I pray you analyse that selfesame scripture you propounded of late to prooue the finall determination of satan his actuall possession Orthodoxus Content Wherein you haue to consider first that our sauiour Christ in saying Now is the iudgement of this world now shall the prince of this world be cast out had an especiall regard to that earnest petition which certeine greekes a little before did personally put vp vnto Andrew saying Good
foorth from the harts of so many as dedicate their names vnto Christ this Christ by the verie power of his death hath actually conquered his tyrannie And therefore the holie Ghost saith truely that nowe is the iudgement of this world that is euen now and foorthwith shal the reformation thereof be effected Againe Musculus vpon these wordes Now is the iudgement of this world saith thus The Lord in these words doth seeme to vnfold the meaning of that heauenly voice which spake thus a little before I haue glorified my name alreadie and wil glorifie it againe For what is it else to illustrate the name of God in this world but to beate downe and destroy the kingdome of Satan the prince of this world And because this ouerthrow of Satan was to be actually effected by that selfesame death which Christ did then suffer for the redemption of the world therefore he saith not there shall be a iudgement of this world but now is the iudgement of this world Neither saith he the prince of this world shall be but now is cast out Againe maister Caluin vpon these words Now is the iudgment of this world writeth thus By the worde iudgement some vnderstand the reformation and some the condemnation of the world the first accordeth better with the purpose of Christ because the world by his death was then to be brought into a lawfull order For the Hebrew word Mishpat which is here interpreted iudgement betokeneth a right and a lawfull constitution of things Howbeit we haue to consider that without Christ there is nothing in the world but meere confusion Although therefore that Christ before by his preaching and miracles began to erect the kingdome of God yet for all that his verie death it selfe was the true beginning of a rightly compounded state and the full restauration of the worlde Notwithstanding this withall would be noted namely that the worlds reformation it cannot possiblie be effected but the kingdome of satan must first be abolished but flesh and what else soeuer withstandeth the iustice of God must first be subdued Christ therefore pronounceth the prince of this world to be nowe cast foorth because all dissipation and deformitie proceedeth from him For so long as satan doth exercise his tyrannie so long there doth violently breake foorth all maner of iniquitie So then Satan is no sooner cast foorth but the world is forthwith recalled from her reuolted estate to the well ordered kingdome of Christ. Againe Hemingius vpon these words the holy Ghost shall reprooue the world of iudgement because the prince of this world is iudged already saith thus The world that made a mock of Christ and willed him if he were the sonne of God to come downe from the crosse by the holy ghost who fell vpon the disciples at the feast of Pentecost was flatly conuinced that in so doing they iudged vniustly of Christ. For the holy ghost saith Christ shall then cause them to vnderstand and perceiue in deed that I hauing conquered the diuel by my death and resurrection do now exercise by your ministery an absolute authority ouer the world in that none are now able to withstand the wisedome which speaketh so effectually in euery of you This saith Hemingius is the very sence of this place if especially we refer as we ought the fulfilling therof to the efficacy and power of the holy ghost apparantly resting vpon the Apostles at the feaste of Pentecost To be short Gualter vpon these words they brought vnto Christ a Demoniack saith thus There were many such no doubt in the daies of Christ because the prince of this world was not yet cast foorth Who grew so much the more raging mad by how much he perceiued that fatal hower very neerely approche wherein he knew he must needs be cast foorth from the possession which he had so long time vniustly vsurped Loe Exorcistes these be the writers which for the present I haue purposely produced to prooue the exposition I gaue of these words Now is the iudgment of this world now shall the prince of this world be cast foorth Exorcistes Whatsoeuer you say or whomsoeuer you produce for proofe of your purpose I passe not this exposition you giue is strange and something more then that which hath been vsually receiued Orthodoxus Be it so It ouerthrowes not you see but rather confirmes the ordinary receiued exposition in that it shewes directly some actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest concerning satans dominion Yea and this actuall conquest satan himselfe so actually felt as he was foorthwith enforced to acknowledg the same saying thus Ah what haue we to doe with thee o Iesus of Nazareth art thou come to destroy vs Not meaning therein satan his essentiall destruction but the actuall annihilating of his actuall dominion as hath been handled before And this also according to the determinate councell of God who had certeinely decreed the actuall breaking of the serpents head by the promised seede of the woman The which promised seede did purposely take flesh and bloud that he might in the flesh destroy through death him that had power ouer death that is the diuell as was shewed before Exorcistes Why should you so confidently applie this destruction of Satan to the actuall determination also of his essentiall possession and not rather to the onely effectuall weakening of that his spirituall dominion as it is vsually expounded of others Orthodoxus Because the holie Ghost ouer and besides the effectuall weakening of Satan his spirituall dominion speaketh directly there of the actuall accomplishment of something else by the verie act of Christs death The which actuall accomplishment of something else may at no hand be vnderstood either of the essence of Satan or of his power of obsession but onely of that his temporarie power of actuall possession as hath beene handled at large Yea and that selfesame actuall determination of Satan his said temporarie power of actuall possession it was so mightily feared so actually and so sensibly felt of the diuell as it made him with a bitter exclamation to burst foorth and say Ah art thou come to destroy vs As if Satan should sorrowfully exclaime in this sort Oh thou the promised seede that must actually breake my head Thou Iesus of Nazareth Thou sonne of the liuing God Thou that by the verie act of thy approching death art appointed to destroy me that had power ouer death Ah woe woorth thee Oh what haue I to doe with thee Art thou come to vndertake the actuall destruction of my actuall possession Art thou come now with force and armes to enter my house to depriue me of this my speciall armour wherein I trusted and euen actually to cast me forth of that my pallace or house which I haue hetherto possessed in peace Yea and therewithall likewise to weaken my whole spirituall dominion for euer Exorcistes But why
Surely if thou beleeuest aright if thou louest Christ in such sort as he is to be loued thou shalt stand in no need of miracles for miracles are giuen to them that beleeue not 4 In another place thus The working of miracles is now ceased with christians and found especially among such as are counterfeite christians for vnto Antichrist is giuen power to work lying signes and woonders with men 5 Againe he saith thus The working of miracles in times past was vndoubtedly necessary but now it is not so 6 The ordinary glosse saith thus If we work not miracles now is it because we want faith not so The working of miracles in the very first spring of the church was woonderfull necessary to confirme the true faith but that faith once confirmed they are now no more necessary 7 Lyra saith thus In the primitiue church the true sauing faith it was to be nourished and confirmed by miracles and therefore the gratious gift of miracles not onely was very freely bestowed vpon the apostles themselues but eftsoones also vpon many simple beleeuers 8 Hugo saith thus Miracles in the first sprout of the church were woonderfull necessary for the nourishment of faith howbeit not now necessary at all because the true faith is already very fully confirmed And therefore now in stead of signes and woonders the good works of professours must freely breake foorth to make their holy profession more resplendent and shining 9 Isidore he saith thus The working of miracles must vtterly cease before the manifestation of antichrist to the end that by such the churches supposed basenesse in comparison of those former miraculous seasons antichrist him selfe might the more boldly presume to persecute some vnto death For euen therefore there must necessarily appeare in the christian churches such an externall basenesse by the ceasing of miracles that the patience of persecuted saints might more cleerely shine foorth the inconstancy of scandalized reprobates more euidently appeare and the cruelty of bloudy persecutours become more outragious 10 Maister Beza saith thus That oyle wherewith the sicke persons were specially annointed it was an vndoubted true signe of the admirable power of God and no ordinarie medicine for the curing of mens maladies Seeing therefore the speciall gift of such a miraculous curing is ceased long since to what ende should the ceremonie thereof bee yet still so fondly retayned 11 Maister Caluin saith thus Seeing the true miracles effected by Christ and written downe authentically by the blessed Euangelists are fully sufficient to confirme the true sauing faith those men whatsoeuer who for any other respect would foist in new miracles they shew themselues wicked and such curious braines as not contenting themselues with eternall saluation doe desire to leape beyond the limits and bounds of the kingdome of heauen 12 In the Bee-hyue it is thus written The Prophets and Apostles they had a speciall gift for the working of miracles and driuing out of diuels to confirme their preaching thereby and therefore they ioyned to that selfesame gift some apparant ceremonie or signe as may plainely appeare Howbeit that power being ceased long since the signe also it must cease with the power 13 D. Cooper saith thus The working of miracles now it would shake very shreudly the certeinty of that truth which we preach because being confirmed afresh by miracles it should now be confirmed by that selfesame deceiueable meanes which is wholy reserued to Antichrist Yea and it woulde mightily strengthen the Papists giue them an aduantage against vs by making them in this sort to obiect and say If the Gospel you teach be the vndoubted truth why do you confirme so sacred a truth by that selfesame meanes which you so sharpely condemne in vs But if the Gospell you preach be an inueterate falshood why then do you shewe your selues to be Antichrists in thus laboring as you doe to confirme your inueterate falshood by such deceaueable signes and woonders 14 Doctor Fulke saith thus There is nowe no such ordinarie function in the Church of God that men shoulde haue power to cast out diuels more then to heale al manner of diseases speake with newe toongs which they neuer learned or to worke other miracles Which spirituall gifts God gaue in the beginning of the preaching of the Gospell to confirme the credit thereof among the Iewes and Gentiles but of long time haue ceased among Christians who are nowe to be directed by Gods worde whereunto also their profession doth binde them to giue credit without any further confirmation by miracles then that which is testified vnto them in the holie Scriptures 15 Againe he saith thus We know the gift of miracles is ceased long since in the Church and we meane not to counterfeit that gift as you doe and haue done Our faith being approoued by the Scriptures is confirmed by al the miracles of Christ and his Apostles exprest in the Scriptures 16 Briefly Master Dearing saith thus We know very wel that all the miracles of God were giuen to confirme his worde other signes or woonders then those neither we nor our fathers haue knowne And now that the vse of miracles is fully performed vnto vs and we doe beleeue the Gospell in token that our faith is freely accepted with God he hath taken awaie signes and woonders from vs which serued vs fitly before when we were vnbeleeuers And surely our faith is neuer so honorable nor we so highly in the fauour of God as when we haue saide both to heauen and earth we seeke no signes from you Or when the worde of God hath such a perswasion in our harts that we haue now taken fast hold of all the good promises of the Gospell and saide vnto miracles get you hence The Iewes seeke a signe saith Paul surely we that be Christians seeke for none When they were offred of God he shewed his compassion vpon our infirmities but now that he hath taken them away he bestoweth a greater mercie in accepting our faith Let vs hearken therefore to the worde of Christ for by it we shall liue If we beleeue not his worde neither would we beleeue all the miracles in the worlde though dead men doe arise and preach them vnto vs. Behold now Exorcistes you haue heer● a graund-iurie impannelled concerning this point what saie you vnto them Exorcistes I know not well what to thinke of them Orthodoxus If you either doubt of their credits or suspect their consciences you may haue a tales among these that follow Namely Peter Martyr Iohn Caluin Musculus Bullenger Gualter Erasmus Sarcerius with sundrie other besides who all do iointly and confidently auouch the ceasing of miracles in these daies of the Gospell Exorcistes I challenge no one of your former Iurours but doe iointly hold them for good men and true Orthodoxus Are you then content to submit to