for he saith as Maister Iuell alledgeth not onely the priest sacrificeth but also the whole company of the faithful But what maketh this for Maister Harding The priest and the people both doe sacrifice therefore is there no difference in the ministerye S. Peter saith you are a kingly Priesthood therfore is ther no difference in the function betwene the minister and the laye man True it is that the minister and the people do offer vp a lyke one sacrifice vnto God but that maketh nothing to Maister Hardings saying Thus we se while he hobbeth and roueth and shooteth at euery marke a lie he was an hypocrite when he was at the best and nowe is led forwarde still to be an open enimie Reade the .222 vntruth An other péece of thys marke is this that men and women make the sacrifice of the aulter and be Priests after the order of Melchisedech Of this reade the .158 vntruth The last péece of thys marke is yet woorst of all nothing else but malice slaunder and wickednesse here agaynst M. Iuell bicause he wryteth not one such woord and commonlye agaynst the truth of God which the wicked doe alwaye peruert And this is that marke that God is the author of euill and driueth men to sin What should I here aunswere but euen saye with the Prophet The scornful haue said We haue made falshood our refuge and vnder vanitie we are hid If euerye such euyll saying myght clayme an aunswere M. Hardings one Reioynder would require many volumes But for a sufficient contentation of the Reader I say in all M. Iuels booke there is no one such woord I adde further nor in all the bookes that euer were wrytten by any godly man of M. Iuels profession Let M. Harding or all hys companions in searching ouer theyr wrytings bryng but one letter whereby we may gesse that euer such a saying was ment and for my part let hys writings be approued If he can not doe this consider of hys religion He would not speake wyckedlye for Gods defence nor talke deceitfully for his cause If anye man require what our opinon is let hym reade any learned man intreating of the predestination of God or of mans frée wyll or for a better warrant let him reade the scriptures it selfe We say al that God made was very good He created man in honour and gaue hym frée wyll and man of himselfe gaue place to inordinate affections where hee might haue obeyed Gods woord euen as it is written He hath set water and fire before thée stretch out thy hand vnto which thou wilt And agayne God created man without corruptiō And concerning sinne we say through the enuy of the Deuill came death into the world Neither néede we make exception agaynst this authoritie bicause it is not in the canō For the Apostle doth authorize it where he writeth He that committeth sinne is of the Deuil For the Deuill sinneth euen from the beginning And in an other place Diabolus est mendax pater eius the Deuill is a lyer and the father thereof not as your friende Mayster Dorman doth interprete it and so was hys father before hym for that were in déede to make God the authour of euill which is the marke you talke of Now euen as the Deuill is authour of euil so we by his suggestiō haue the next cause in our selues which is an vncleane hart lyke as our Sauiour saith Out of the hart procéede euil cogitations c. Of God we say and we say againe and we preache it and we wryte and beleue it and in it we reioyce that God is neyther the author of euyll neyther yet would it should be committed The shepe goe astray without the shepherdes wyll The groate is lost and the poore woman would not so Christ woulde gather togither Ierusalem as the Hen doth hir Chickens but they would not But this we say that the wayes of God are not like the wayes of men that he should not know what thynges were to come He could not be deceiued in his own creature He did foresée the fall of Adam and by his omnipotency could haue made him stand For who can resist hys will He coulde haue made him so pure that he should not haue sinned euen as he hath now made his Aungels and wyll make the whole number of his elect that no man anye more shall take awaye theyr ioye from them And as we are sure this is Gods omnipotēcy so why he did it not we cā not assigne any cause but bicause he would not For we knowe he hath done al things that he woulde Yet a cause ther was and that a most iust and good cause For their is no iniquity with him And this cause he did knowe in his eternall secret counsell before all worldes for as much as all thinges are present with him To enter further into Gods councell and aske why he appointed such a course in which the reprobate both Angels and men shoulde fall away this were presumptuous folly Shall the pot say vnto the potter why hast thou made me so The Godly will staye here and in the feare and loue of God wil professe and beleue both that God ruleth all thinges with his mighty worde and yet wylleth he no man to sinne We haue so much corruption in our selues that we néede no further prouoking vnto wickednesse Now to Maister Hardings purpose thus much we saye that God permitteth synne and with longe patience doth suffer the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction but yet this permission we say doth appertayne vnto the will of God For he doth not suffer it eyther inforced or against his will neither yet doth he so suffer it that he doth nothing him selfe For he ruleth and gouerneth euen their iniquity He suffereth it not to rage at will but guideth it either to the punishment of the wicked as he oft punished the Israelites with the wickednes of straunge Princes or to the triall of his elect as it is well acknowledged of the prophet Dauid saying of Shimei he curseth euen bicause the Lord hath bid him curse Dauid yet God made not the malice of Shimeis mynde Likewyse where it is sayde of the destruction of Ierusalem that God brought vpon them the king of the Chaldeans God did not ingraffe in Nabuchadoneyzar his great cruelty but being bred in his own mind he brought it vpon whom it pleased him Therfore Christ saith all the heares of our head are numbred and with out Gods appointment ther shal not one of them perish This therefore is our doctrine God is no cause of wickednesse but men cannot apply their owne wickednesse but where it pleaseth God neither do they exercise their wickednes but when and how far his grace doth leaue them For plainer declaration of this we may compare the grace of God and the sunne If the sunne be ouer
Augustine speaketh not of Saint Mathew the .2 nor of Saint Andrew the .3 nor of Abdias his Maximilla the .4 nor of Abdias the .5 nor Gelasius speaketh of Abdias the .6 nor they two speak of Abdias Thus the whole being ioyned is but one true proposition yet out of it after his maner of cutting maister Harding hath carued .6 lies And thus much of lying Abdias The B. of Saris. Martial was so defaced in many places that it could not be reade Harding The .35 vntruth It could be read else hovv coulde it be printed Dering By gesse Why should not the printer haue as much liberty in printing this little olde booke as maister Harding vseth for proufe of his whole religion The Printer himselfe sayth prae nimia vetustate vix legi potuerunt for estreame age they could scarce be read Nowe where as maister Harding doth aske how then could they be printed I aske of him how Abdias was printed For of him his sorbonist Doctor wryteth he could neyther be read nor vnderstand An other might much better haue moued this doubt then maister Harding He is not now to learne what gesses may doe But howe soeuer he was printed sure this vntruth was not worth noting The B. of Saris. It is iudged by Iohn Colet and other graue men that Dionysius can not be that Areopagita Saint Paules disciple which is mencioned in the Actes Harding The .36 vntruth It is not iudged so by Iohn Colet The .37 vntruth They are no graue men that so iudge Dering These vntruthes can not be good that are made so fast nor yet so many as the maker would haue them when one is told so many tymes If this were vntrue that maister Iuell writeth yet were it not two vntruthes but one But bicause there is no remedie we will take them euen as they fall out As touching the former of these two it néedeth no aunswere Maister Harding doth not denie it but that Iohn Colet hath both spoken it and preached it then what skilleth it whether it be written his preaching is a witnes of his opinion though maister Harding say nay For this other vntruth that such other as deny this Dionysius to be the true Areopagita are no graue men he is sure no graue man that hath noted it I may aunswere this with the wordes of Saint Paule horum laus non ex hominibus sed ex deo these mens prayses are not of men but of God Maister Harding should not for his modesty sake haue noted it for an vntruth to call the godly fathers of our age graue men His belligods Popes Cardnals Friers Monkes Priestes others of that kenâ—ll haue not so much laboured in searching out the truth in fiue hundred yeares as these other haue done in fiftie But God hath giuen the increase his name be praysed for euer As touching this Dionysius whether we haue his workes or no it is a thing soone iudged How vnlike is it that the conuersion of Dionysius should be mencioned by Saint Luke in the actes of the Apostles yet he him selfe would not mencion it once in al his workes or if this might be yet what may we thinke of that that in all his booke he doth neuer so much as once name Paule May it yet be doubted whether he be that Dionysius which Paule conuerted Besides this S. Ierom making purposely a rehearsall of all ecclesiasticall wryters speaketh not one worde of this Dionysius Other auncient fathers doe neuer alleage him his owne bookes are so strauÌ„ge fansies of many secrete misteries that sure it is he is not the true Areopagita The. B. of Saris. Saint Iames Liturgie hath an especiall prayer for them that liue in Monasteries and yet it was â—erie rare to haue Monasteries built in all Saint Iames time Harding The .38 vntruth There is no mention of such Monasteries as we commonly meane when we speake of Monasteries Dering As be for Monasteries as Monasteries are to speake of the things themselues as they are in déede so to say of Monasteries as they be considered in this meaning of Monasteries so Monasteries and so forth a man should go farre that shoulde follow Maister Hardings wrangling The B. of Saris. Chrysostomes Liturgie prayeth for Pope Nicolas by these wordes Nicolai sanctiss vniuersalis Papae longa sint teÌ„pora We pray God sende Nicolas that most holy and vniuersall Pope a long time to liue But Pope Nicolas the first of that name was the seconde Pope after dame Ione the woman Pope Harding The .39 vntruth He prayth not for Pope Nicolas of Rome The .40 vntr There was no such woman pope Dering Nowe Maister Harding after he hath giuen so many offers and maketh neuer a wound he directeth his engines quite contrarie and assayeth if that he can giue the Pope a blowe Pope Nicolas sayth Chrysostome that most sacred and vniuersall Pope That is no good proufe sayth Maister Harding that he meaneth the bishop of Rome Here is a full subscription to the .4 article The authorities alleaged for the Popes supremacie are quite ouerthrowne to be called vniuersall bishop is no proufe of his supremacie Had Maister Harding wel considered it this vntruth had bene quoted some other where but doubting that this be not aunswere good ynough he letteth it go and graunting it to be sayde of Pope Nicolas therevpon he asketh this question If Chrysostome might not pray for Pope Nicolas how is the death of Moyses described in the bookes of the lawe There is no man sayth he so hardie to denie that Moyses wrote these bookes Be not afrayd good reader of these big words nor of M â–ª Har. daring All this is soone aunswered Either Eleazar or Iosue wroâ—e the .34 Chap. of Deuter. And they might well write of Moyses his death Or if Moyses wrote it he knew it by reuelation For so he himselfe wryteth The lorde hath saide vnto mée thou shalt not go ouer this Iordane Sure of a doctor of diuinitie this was a very simple question If he can shewe any such reuelation that Chrysostome haâ— of Pope Nicolas then let this be Chrysostomes Masse The .40 vntruth is concerning pope Ione who neuer did the sea of Rome more dishonesty then she hath stoode maister Harding in good stéed For both she helpeth out his Reioinder with vntruthes and maketh a great péece of his confutation of the Apologie But saith maister Harding there was no such woman Pope What skilleth it to this present matter whether there were such a Pope or no. A filthie Strumpet is good ynough for such a whoorish kingdome If there were such a one Pope Nicolas was seconde after hir Whether there were or no my profes are néedelesse my lord of Sarisburie hath resolued vs in that behalfe The B. of Saris. Now it were much for me to say that Chrysostome prayed for men by name 700. yeares before they were borne Harding The .41 vntruth I say
iustifie them or were not silence the best aunswere to so great folies Let the Reader iudge The B. of Saris. If no bodie receiued then is it not true that some receiued Harding The .196 vntruth Chrisostome saith not that some receiued Dering If the last vntruthe were not worth the noting then what store hath he that is faine to number it twice Yet so it is this purposed number hath driuen M. Harding to such inconuenience The former vntruthe was Chrisostome said not some receiued with the priest this is he saith not some receiue if he would make the third that some receiue not with it had euen as good reason as either of these But let these vntruthes alone they cannot doe much harme Onely I must admonish thée that after this long ado with Maister Iuel Maister Harding for his exercise will fights little with him selfe Here he saith that Chrisostome saith not that some receiue yet out of this same place of Chrisostome alleaging these wordes Cum timore dei et fide et dilectione accedite he doeth english them thus come you vp to receiue with the feare of God c. These cōtrary sayings without one vntruth cannot be reconciled If there he wel translated it come vp to receiue then this is no vntruth If this be vntrue then that was a false translation One of these can not be denied The B. of Saris. He saith the people in the Cities were daylie taught by sermons Harding The .197 vntruthe I say not so let my booke be iudge Dering Maister Harding by like doth say and vnsay and careth not what he say These are his verie wordes Now if Chrisostome had cause to complaine of the peoples slacknesse in that great and populous citie of Antioche where the scriptures were daily expounded and preached c. And here I say as Maister Harding saith let his booke be iudge And why then is this vntruth scored vp with other Would he haue vs think that this preaching were onely in Antioche and no where else This might well be if papistrie hadde ben then in vre and preaching not regarded But to think it of that world in which good religion florished and Gods word was plentifull it is an vncharitable gessing Thus much I speake graunting Maister Hardings wordes that in Antioche the people were daily taught And then if it were so the same vse had ben likewise kept in other cities so Maister Hardings owne wordes going for true this can be no vntruth but how true those wordes are Maister Iuel doeth sufficiently proue reade his Replie he doeth alleage Chrysostomes owne wordes to proue that in Antioche they had sermons but once a wéeke and therevpon he saith further thus The B. of Saris. I note this not for that I mislike of daily preaching but for that vntruth so boldelie presumed should not passe vntouched Harding The .198 vntruth It is no vntruth Dering I am sorie to trouble the reader with aunswering to so vaine vntruthes but so it is if nothing should be said they would be thought of some force Maister Harding vseth this reason to proue his priuate Masse In Antiochie there was but a verie few to communicate sometime Therfore in the countrey belike there was priuate Masse Of this argument Maister Iuel saith thus to aduaunce the citie to abase the countrey he saith in cities they had dayly sermons but this is vntrue For in Antioche they had not so Now rise M. Hardings two vntruthes 1. I say not they were taught so in cities 2. They were taught so in Antioche Who could haue scraped out these vntruthes but he Or what force is there in them For this second vntruth where he still affirmeth they had dayly preaching in Antioche that is a very false lie and yet how impudently doth be persist in it The B. of Saris. Yet saith Maister Harding in small countrey churches either the Priest let cease the dayly sacrifice or else he receiued alone Harding The .199 vntruth I say not so This is altogether falsified Dering I pray God Maister Harding be not altogether without grace He so vnreuerently speaketh euill of authoritie so boldely denieth his owne sayings that his cause is much to be feared Marke here Maister Iuels wordes I will lay M. Hardings wordes with them then iudge whether here be any vntruth Thus he writeth of such countrey churches it must be sayd that either the sacrifice ceased c. Or that the memorie of our Lords death was oftentimes celebrated of the Priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for others to communicate with them Marke now how Maister Iuel chaungeth these wordes either the daily sacrifice ceased saith Maister Harding either the priest let cease the daily sacrifice saith Maister Iuell What is here falsified If it dyd cease the Priest ceased it For I trow the lay man might not say Masse if he would The other péece of Maister Hardings saying is this or else the memorie of our Lords death was often times celebrated of the priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for other to communicate with them These many words bicause oftedious writing Maister Iuell reporteth this or the priest receiued alone Now iudge of this place which Maister Harding saith is altogether falsified and praye that Maister Harding may once haue eies to sée The .200 vntruth Here Maister Harding noteth an vntruth in the margin that is not in the text When he telleth vs what it is we will better examine it The B. of Saris. The Masse that is so glorious can neither be founde in churches nor chappels Harding It is found both in churches and chappels Dering It is not yet found neither in church nor chappell within .600 yeares of Christ. The B. of Saris. Thus saith Chrysostome if thou stand by and not receiue thou art malapert thou art shamelesse thou art impudēt 2. thine eies be vnworthie the sight herof vnworthie be thine eares 3. O thou wilt say I am vnworthie to be partaker of the holie mysteries then art thou vnworthie to be partaker of the praiers 4. Thou maist no more stay here than an heathen that ueuer was christened Harding The .202 vntruthe Chysostome doeth not say these vvordes The .203 vntruthe Chrysostome saith not then an heathen vnchristened Dering Sure good Reader the numbring of these vntruthes is verie straunge here is one Chrysostome saith not these wordes an other he saith not then an heathen c. I would faine know here in the first vntruth what Maister Harding meaneth by these words If he meane the whole sentence why maketh he an other truth If he meane all the sentence going before this latter vntruth why doeth he not make of it thrée seuerall vntruthes For it is distinguished into thrée seuerall sentences or if he think but one of those sentences is false why doeth he not tell vs which it is Certaine it is Maister Harding did know that these former partes of this allegation were all true
exquisite crueltye against them and yet for all this shall we thinke that Peter vvas bishop I leaue here to speake of Peters ovvne epistles the last written a little before his death what time this persecution shoulde haue bene in the greatest rage yet Peter doeth not so muche as once mention any suche thing The former was writeÌ„ about the .12 yere of Claudius and by expresse words dated from Babilon which thing bicause it is a most euideÌ„t token that Peter was theÌ„ no bishop of Rome Therfore they make this glose vpon it From Babylon that is from Rome and vvhat a miserable shift is this in defence of Peters bishoprike to confesse Rome to be Babylon But Rome as it is it shal be Babylon and their religion as it is it shall be the purple vvhore and the Pope as he is he shall be Antichrist rather than they vvill lose this succession of Peter And heere to make the fable perfect they shut it vp vvith tvvo especiall lies The one that Paule and Peter bothe died in one day The other that Christ met Peter flying avvay and bad him goe back and suffer death As touching the first vve reade of Paule vvhen he vvas conuerted he vvas a yong man and vvhen he vvent to Ierusalem to see Peter Athanasius saith he vvent for reuerence â–ª that he bare to Peters age So it seemeth Peter vvas gray headed vvheÌ„ Paule vvas but young About .25 yeres after Paule vvryteth to Philemon Though I be as I am euen Paule an olde man Then vvhat vvas Peter at these yeares Yet Paule liueth after this ten yeare and then wryteth of hym selfe that the tyme of his resolution is at hande Paule had novv finished euen his naturall course a very probable coniecture that he outliued Peter But this other vntruthe that vve speake of is aboue all coniecture shamelesse and vnreasonable They saye that Peter the night before he shoulde suffer fledde avvay and as he vvas going Christ met him vvhome vvhen he had seene Peter sayd vnto him Domine quò vadis Maister vvhether goest thou Then christ made aunswere Romam iterum crucifigi to Rome that I may be crucified againe Then Peter perceiued that Christ spake of him and so he returned and vvas crucified as if Peter him selfe had neuer taught vs that the heauens must containe and kepe Christ vntill the time that all things be restored vvhiche shall not be accomplished vntill the last day and thus endeth the fable of Peters bishoprike in Rome Novv good christian Reader thou consider of it as the truthe shall moue thee and vvay the Pope and Papistry vvhat it is Searche the scriptures saith â–ª our sauior Christ. For they doe beare vvitnesse of me But searche the scriptures vvhile thou vvilt thou canst not finde one line for the Popes supremacie no title for proofe of Peters bishoprike in Rome A certaine argument the Pope is not of Christ. And as this head and vvell spring of all this iniquitie I meane the Pope him selfe hath no vvarrant in the vvorde of God so his religion that it may be like him selfe is altogether contrary and beside the vvorde of God What should I here recite all particulares Searche the scriptures thou shalt not finde neither Masse nor Mattens Diriges Trentals Dispensations Iubileis Indulgences Pardones Pâ—lgrimage Holy water Holy bread Crucifixe Rodes Banners Tapers Sensors Paxes Pixes Canopies Copes Corporase Vestments Albes Stoales Tunicles Saccaring Eleuation Altare Altareclothes Superaltaries Howseling Shriuing Aneling Dispeling Creping Halovving of Bels Halovving of Churches Halovving of Fountes Monethes mindes Lent Vigill Aduent Praying to saintes praying for the deade praying in a straunge tongue none other of the xxv Articles mencioned by maister Iuell And vvhat shoulde I speake of all that are almoste infinite Reade their Portuise and reade the Bible thou shalt finde no leafe of agreement And this none can denye vvho so euer is most frovvardly bent What resteth then if vve loue God and his holy vvorde but that vve consider our vvayes and see vvhether vve vvalke as he hathe taught vs. There is no heauen but his dvvelling place no vvalking vnto it but by his coÌ„maundements and his commandementes no vvhere to be founde but in the Scriptures vvhich he hath left vs. Next vnto Gods glory we haue nothing so precious as the sauegarde of our owne soules And where shall we finde the saluation of our soules but in the vvorde of God God graunt vnto thee his holy spirite that thou mayest heare his worde and keepe the same to the obedience of his will and the saluation of thine owne soule Amen Farewell from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .iiij. of April Anno Domini 1568. Thine in the Lorde Edward Dering ¶ An Aunswere to M. Hardings Epistle wrytten vnto Mayster Iuel Hardyng ¶ Although M. Iuell when you proclaimed your chalenge at the beginning you promised to yelde and subscribe if any man alyue were able to bryng anye one sentence out of any old Doctour Councell Scripture or exaÌ„ple of primitiue Church for proofe of any one of all your articles yet verily I am perswaded no wyse man beleued what soeuer or how much so euer were brought that you would stand vnto your promise c. So then the largenesse of your promise to others maketh shewe of your confidence and to your selfe the regarde of it encreaseth stubbernesse Dering WHen king Alaxander had proclaimed war against Darius a certaine boasting PersiaÌ„ in stéede of more manhood vsed muche vnreuerent talke agaynst them of Macedonia and especially against Alexander hymselfe But Memnon hys Captayne perceiuing thys soldiours valiantnesse to be all in his railing tongue at the last strake hym wyth hys speare and sayde Ego te alo vt pugnes non vt maledicas I retayne thée to fight and not to speake euyll The very lyke of thys is happined among vs and thys pratyng Soldiour doth play hys part agayne The Byshop of Sarisburie our Alexander in Christian warre and godly courage hath made proclamacion against the Pope that proude Prince Darius Kyng of Babilon Now least there should want a Soldiour to speake euyll of Alexander Maister Harding hath taken vpon hym that part and spareth no péece of hys cunning by all meanes possible to debase thys good enterprise God if it be hys wyll once make hym know hym selfe or if he shall continue in hys euyll speakyng sende ouer hym some Memnon that may chasten hys intemperate tongue In thys beginning of hys Epistle there is lyttle woorthy aunswering He pronounceth boldly of M. Iuels entent yet no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirite of man which is within hym Hys writing is like a Crowe in Peacocks feathers or an ylfauored Ape in a purple garment The handlyng of hys matter is very beautifull and the substance is nothing woorth And yet in hys maner of resoning bicause M. Iuell wyll not subscribe he concludeth that he is both
of the Apostels heresies our sauiour Christ a Samaritan But as for your Portuise which is your light whether it be darknesse or no I craue no Arbitrer I require but triall and as Elias saide to the priests of Baal let vs take eyther our bullock and laie the péeces on our aultars and on which God sendeth fire let that be the light You haue halted to long on both sides it is now time to walke vp right Offer vp your Portuise to Maister Iuell if he proue it not a heape of lies a sincke of iniquitie a déepe dungion of blasphemouse herisies agaynst the eternall sonne of God his euerlasting priesthood we will all subscribe And for the assuraunce of our meaning we saie with the Apostle behold before God we lie not if you dare not doe this the Christian Reader must remember you are woorse then Baals prophets Consider then Maister Harding in what waters you wade and looke better what is light darknesse For the ignoraunce of gods worde the Gentiles were said to sit in darkenesse and in the shadow of death the vnbeléeuing Iewes to be blinde leaders of the blinde and he that knewe it not to go he wist not whether But the darckning of that worde hath bene your chiefest light and ignoraunce the mother of your deuotion and as in the sacrifices of Isis and Serapis you haue made Harpocrates image with his finger on his lyps in token that your misteries must be kept secrete and as the Egiptians you haue your two diuers caracters that Robin Hoode and Gui of Warwick and Beuis of Hampton such like shoulde be had of the people in english letters But the misteries of our redemption the glorious tidings of the death of Christ were in straunge figures for the hasarde of deuotion they might not be made common So that of Launcelot Dulake of Lamorake de Galis of Sir Tristram de Lyones or Marlin the Prophet we could tell many weary tales but of Paule of Peter Iames or Iohn â–ª besides the bare names not one among a hundred could tell a lyne not withstanding the continual crying of wysdome in the stréetes the callyng of our Sauiour for the sielie lyttleones O M. Hardyng this is no light It was the tyme of Dioclesian when the Scriptures were burned the abhominations of Manasses when they were hyd in the Temple the kingdome of Antiochus when they were cut in péeces and to compare lyke with lyke your Antichristian iurisdiction where they are kept in couert Wherin you shew that great plague to rest vpoÌ„ you which who so heareth eyther eare shall tingle that you haue the famine of the woord of God When the cogitacion of maÌ„s hart euen from hys youth was euyll the worlde ouerrun w t couetousnesse God purged that iniquitie with his drowning waters when the crie of Sodome and Gomor did ascende to heauen God quenched their filthie lustes wyth fire and brimstone the frowardnesse of hys people the breach of his lawes the bloud of hys prophetes with pestilence famine banishments such other sundrie and diuers plagues but the death of hys onely heire wyth the letting out of the Uineyard to others and the bloud of hys beloued Sonne with the scourge of ignoraunce that vnto this daie they beleue not his glorious Gospel And how must the Popes kingdom néedes tremble feare that acknowledgeth the punishments of Christes death to maintaine their religion Now for our deliuerie from the maintenaunce of darkenes S. Paul biddeth vs not beleue an Angel of heauen that bringeth an other Gospell therefore we dare not be led with any blinde custome to shadowe the same light we haue receiued If you shall otherwyse be alway minded I se in an Etnick hart the effect of that etnicks praier virtutem vt videant intabesâ—antque relicta that you might sée vertue and pine away with want of it After this foloweth a sober excuse that Maister Harding maketh of him selfe that although through infirmitie he oftentimes offend yet in matters of faith he hath no peruerse iudgement The reason is bicause he doth submit him self to the church of Rome â–ª Much better this argument would hold the other way bicause he is in the church of Rome he is in all filthinesse superstition of a sinfull lyfe and of a corrupt religion hauing the heauie hand of God ouer him that except he repent the same woe shall light vppon him which so vnwisely he hath deriued to other Hardyng ¶ This matter is well to be weighed the case you stand in is deeplie to be considered This much you cannot denie you haue for your parte broken the vnitie that is so much commended vnto vs in the scriptures and all holy fathers The Catholicke churche sayth Saint Cyprian can be one it can not be cut and deuided a sunder The catholicke Churche alone is the bodie of Christ saith S. Augustine whereof he is the head the sauiour of his bodie Without hys body the holye Ghost giueth life to none Therefore in an other place he saith whosoeuer is seperat from the catholick churche how lawdable so euer he thinketh himselfe to liue for this onely wickednesse that he is deuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not haue lyfe but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him Dering Here is a sad admonition concerning the catholike Churche which we acknowledge to be the bodie of Christ and he the onely heade of it so that without it there is no saluation But for the triall of this Church we go to the Scriptures and doe examine ech spirit whether he be of God or no and such as saie they be Apostles and be none we haue founde them lyars therefore we run out from among them as out of the middest of Babilon out of their wicked assemblies and donne of théeues from their abominations of Moab and spirituall fornications and ar come againe to our merciful Father that hath prepared his fatlings for vs and put on vs our wedding garment and placed vs at his great Supper in the felowship of his church where we abide thorough his mercie and looke for our resolucion that our ioy maie be full And for our assurance to be of that number we haue the warraÌ„t of the Scriptures first for that we harken onely to Christ and heare not the voice of any stranger then for that we confesse that they alone can saue our soules And as S. Paul saith can make the man of God perfit to all good workes And considering that Prophecie came not in the olde time by the wyll of man but holie men of God spake as they were mooued by y e holy ghost we dare not admit any priuate interpretation but take héede vnto the worde as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place for that is the daye starre which is risen in our harts Therefore we presume not to vnderstand aboue that which
néedes proue their Masse full of Sacriledge Christ onely was méete to offer vp hymselfe but they in their Masse will haue a priest to offer him Christes sacrifice was but one and once finished In their Masse if their sacrifice were one yet is it daily iterated There can be no remission of sinnes without bloud In their Masse they make it vnbloudy yet they haue it to cleanse sins Thus their Masse and the Apostle cannot be reconciled God for â—is mercy roote it out that we may be made frée from that wicked mistery There resteth yet one péece in this idolatrous assertion whether there be any sacrifice for y e dead This controuersie is verye foolish and full of olde wyues dreames neyther grounded on the worde of God bicause it is vngodly nor requireth much impugning bicause it hath no reason Yet seing M. Harding coulde neuer sée the marke to shoote at I will let it plaine before him if he will shoote at it with the worde of God he shall be sure to ouerthrowe it King Salomon hath made him fit arrowes euen for the nonce if he will drawe truely he shall hit the marke What soeuer saith Salomon thy hande doth finde to do do it spedily for there is neyther worke nor inuention nor knowledge nor wisedome in the graue whether thou goest If the case stande thus with vs when we are gone concerning our doinges then is there no more purgatory Againe he saith if the trée doe fall towarde the South or toward the North in the place that the tree falleth there it shalbe and these wordes of the holy Ghost are true Therfore no Pope no Trentalles no Indulgences nor pardons can moue the trée out of his place in which it is once fallen Againe it is written defraude not thy selfe of the good day and let not the portion of good desires ouer passe thée meaning therby we should take the tyme of our lyfe For after it will be to late to aske repentaunce and in that chap. it followeth Giue and take I sanctifie thy soule worke thou righteousnes before thy death for in the hell ther is no meat to finde which sayinges are likewise confirmed by that which is spoken by S. Paule Behold now is the acceptable time behold now is the day of health To the same sense it is likewise spoken All corruptible thinges shall faile and the worker thereof shall go withall By which scriptures it appeareth how little holdfast these purgatory patrons haue And here I would haue them aunswere if they can We haue often in the scriptures the death of men described yet neuer any worde of purgatory mencioned In the lawe there were sacrifices for the prince for the people for the priest for ielosie for childe birth for the leprosie for diuers kindes of diseases for sundrye infections and griefes pertaining vnto men and yet in the whole lawe not once sacrifice apointed for them in purgatory an vndoubted token that purgatory was than vnknowen Dauid fasted and went in and lays all night vpon the earth while his childe was sicke but when he was dead he arose vp and washed and annointed hymselfe and did eate and aunswered whye he did so while the childe saith he was yet aliue I fasted and wept c. but now being dead wherefore should I now fast The popish priests might soone haue aunswered to release him out of Purgatorie But the prophet Dauid did knowe of no suche matter When we obiect these and such other proofes some stagger and haue not what to saye Some make this aunswer that Purgatorie was not in the time of the law but these good patrons doe litle spare the great mercies of Iesus Christ if they teache that he brought his people this place of torment The testimonie that he giueth of his own good will can not beare it where he prayeth Father my wyll is that where I am there they may be with me whom thou hast giuen vnto me that they may sée my glorie But the glory that his elect shall sée is not I trow the paines of Purgatorie If M. Harding will make exception and say that was spoken onely of the Apostles such as should be of greater perfitenesse than other are that deuice is confounded euen by the testimonie of the same Iesus Christ where he sayth in the same chapiter I doe not pray onely for them but for suche also as shall beleue in me through their preaching so that whosoeuer dyeth in the fayth of Christ he shall not know Purgatorie but euery one which is saued shall dye in the same fayth according to that which is written the iust man shall lyue by his fayth And this is againe proued by the example of the théefe who in no poynt was of such perfection as the Apostles were yet to him it was sayd this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise And S. Paule him selfe testifieth the same where he writeth that the crowne of righteousnes was layd vp for him a rewarde of all his labours And least we should misconstre hys saying as the Papists doe and say that for his great perfection he passed from this life straight into the kingdome of righteousnesse he taketh awaye that vaine gessing saith further that crowne is reserued against y t day Non soluÌ„ mihi c. not onely to me but to euery one y t loueth the coÌ„ming of Iesus Christ. They maye not well doubt that Paule ment by that daye the daie of his death sith he defineth it him selfe in an other place Cupio dissolui c. I desyre to be dissolued be w t Christ. Then if all sortes of men as many as be beleuers bi accepted a like concerning their present happinesse as the scriptures euery where do testifie then let all these foolishe deuises passe Such manner hobbings and rouings what haue we to doe with them Let vs harken after the word of God the soueraigne and alone medicine for the wounded soule Besides all this that we shoulde not feare any purging fire S. Paule testifieth of Christ that he is able perfitely to saue all them that come vnto God through him But whan we go vnto God if Christ from thence sende vs into purgatory how doth he than make perfite our saluation which the soule doth inioy till such time as it be againe ioyned to the body and than made ful Againe in the same Epistle I will be mercifull vnto their vnrighteousnesse and their sinne and will remember their iniquity no more Much lesse than will he sende vs into Purgatory But what néede we séeke longe for the ouerthrowe of such buildings S. Paul in one word derideth y t whole controuersy It is appointed saith he vnto all men that they shall once dye and after that commeth the iudgement If it be so what then auaileth praier for y e dead What helpeth it to haue trentals Where is purgatory After death saith the
matter that M. Iuell nameth him Zazius in steede of Lazius as who say that euery man must not néedes knowe Wolfangus Lazius that hath séene Abdias False printing can not blame the author where wrangling is not in place Lazius sayth eyther Saint Luke borrowed hole stories of Abdias or Abdias of S. Luke By this it appeareth Lazius is well content if you thinke S. Luke borrowed his writing of him Nowe for the more contempt of so vaine and fonde a saying Maister Iuell may well report his wordes absolutelye and ought not for that to bée blamed with vntruth Yet let vs admit that Lazius saying were sufferable I aske of M. Harding how a disiunctiue proposition may be improued without affirming or denying one certaine part Besides this it is no newes to Wolfangus Lazius to speake sometime at randome when he should speake truth He hath other wheres many absurdities and some both slaunderous and odious to rehearse ywis by good account a man may easily finde more lyes in his bookes than frier Furius can chalenge in Sleydaines commentaries but let them go For this present matter Maister Iuell eyther in contempt of this vaine imagination or for the more appearaunce of so great an absurdity without any suspicion of vntrue dealing may before all good men report these wordes as he doth The. B. of Saris. He maketh many shamelesse lyes and sayth that he was present with Christ and at most part of the Apostles doings Harding The .26 vntruth He sayth not so Dering If we marke M. Iuels wordes well we shall sufficientlye be forewarned As touching these vntruthes he maketh saith Maister Iuell many shamelesse lyes and sayth he was present at the Apostles doings Here maister Harding can challenge no vntruth concerning Abdias shamelesse lying but for his presence at the most of the Apostles doing that saith he is nothing so Let vs take that which by silence M. Harding confesseth and then if Abdias haue many shamelesse lyes how can he further Maister Hardings Masse or if he haue not why is it not noted for an vntruth By like he thought that by speaking nothing of Abdias lies they might be forgotten and by calling them to tryall Abdias should be quite shamed For my part I meane not to meddle with them they are mo in number then in short time may be recited Onely I aduertise thée to reade the booke due tryall shall be surest iudge As touching this present vntruth whether he were cōuersant with the Apostles or no it maketh no great matter what skilleth it what he was or what time he liued It is smale credit to Esopes fables that the author liued in king Croesus dayes Yet for maister Hardings pleasure let vs sée this vntruth He sayth not sayth maister Harding that he was present at most of the Apostles doings I aunswere that it is not necessary to be very scrupulous in reporting of Abdias his wordes it is more then he deserueth if we vouchsafe to recite his meaning Thus much maister Harding and Abdias do say that he was the Apostles scholer that he was present at the death of Saint Andrew and Saint Thomas at the doings of Simon and Iude which were all Apostles and of all this is it much if we say that he was present at the most of the Apostles doinges Such is this Abdias He hath deserued yll maister Hardings friendship His credite is so little that he can not further hys priuate Masse His doings are so vnreasonable that they can not be defended without shame But the prouerbe is verified like will to like An ill cause hath most ground in vnsufficient witnesse and an ill patrone is best content with vnable authoritie The. B. of Saris. It may be gathered by Saint Augustine in sundrie places that some part of this booke was written by certaine heritikes called the Manichees Harding The .27 vntruth Saint Augustine hath no such thing of Abdias Dering This vntruth is little worth and soone aunswered It may be gathered sayth Maister Iuell But saint Augustine speaketh not of Abdias saith M. Harding It is true in déede saint Augustine doth not name him for if he did there neded thē no gathering The thing were plaine It is an easie thing to find many vntruthes if we make our aduersary to say what wée list Whether Augustine meane of Abdias or no that shall bée séene in y e next vntruth Here is nothing affirmed but that he may séeme to meane him that this may be gathered M. Har. denieth not That Abdias is ment it must appeare by the next vntruth So either maister Harding maketh two vntruthes of one as his maner is or here speaketh nothing to the purpose as he commonly vseth The B. of Saris. For he reporteth the fables of Saint Thomas of Saint Mathew of Saint Andrew of the Lyon that slue the man that had striken Saint Thomas of the dog that brought the same mans hande to the table of Maximilla wife vnto Egis and other like tales euen in such order as they be set foorth by this Abdias Harding The .28 vntruth Saint Augustine nameth not Mathevve The .29 vntruth He nameth not Andrevv The .30 vntru He speaketh not of Maximilla vvhich Abdias ment Dering M. Hardings vntruthes amount not yet to his mind Therfore he thinketh it not amisse to quote them a little faster vpō which aduice he maketh thrée in one periode he might as wel haue sayde S. Augustine mentioneth not these stories and so haue made but one saue that he loueth not such plaine dealing But the matter is not great as short an aunswere will serue for all as if they had béene but one Saint Augustine nameth not Mathevv nor Andrevv Marke good reader this vntruth Maister Iuell sayth Saint Augustine telleth the tales of Mathevv and Andrevv and so he doth let the booke be the iudge Maister Harding sayth S. Augustine nameth them not neyther doth maister Iuell saye he nameth them take away this much wrangling and here is no vntruth at all But this we haue to note by the way for the better credite of maister Hardings Abdias that Saint Augustine condemneth those tales for lyes which Abdias telleth for a certaine truth Concerning y e tale of Maximilla wife to Aeges which maister Harding saith is not reported in the same sort by Abdias as it is by Saint Augustine first we must knowe both Augustine and Abdias meane the same woman as shall appeare in y e .31 vntruth Then Augustine speaketh of hir as of a foolish vaine tale Abdias speaketh of hir doings as of true and weightie stories Thus it appeareth though Saint Augustine doe not name the parties yet he agréeth in the tales and when this shall be knowne the .27 vntruth shall be iustified That it may be gathered Saint Augustine meaneth of Abdias these thre latter vntruthes which are but the proufe of Maister Iuels coniectture shall appeare so good that before the true christian reader the quoting of