in the blessed sacrament of the autre nor put any fayth therin Put ye no dowte but he wyll saye the same by hys soule within a whyle sone after that by hys godhed to and at the laste by the godhed of the father and the holy ghoste bothe and vttrely deny all thre God is good lorde whyche maketh thys blasphemouse fole speke in the ende of hys blasphemy a few trew wordes wyth whyche hym selfe destroyeth all hys whole abomynable doctryne For he coÌ„fesseth as ye haue herd that though he maye not byleue in Crystes chyrche as though the chyrche were hys sauyour yet he muste byleue Crystes chyrch that the doctryne which they preche of Cryste is trew And with these wordes of hys owne will I strayne hym faste sure For I aske no more but these few wordes of his owne to the confoundyng of all that euer he techeth agaynst our fayth For now hath he wyth these wordes destroyed theffecte of hys heresye wherwyth he wolde draw all to an vnknowen chyrche of electes For syth we muste byleue the doctryne the prechyng of the chyrche of Cryste as Tyndale sayth hym selfe and that can we neuer do but yf we know them whom we byleue and who be electys we can not knowe farewell the force of all that heresye by Tyndales owne tale And now syth he hath bounden hym selfe to confesse that the chyrche of Cryst is muste nedys be a chyrche knowen here to men and none suche can he name but onely the catholyke knowen chyrche of all Crysten nacyons froÌ„ whych he hath and doth labour to flyt and fle vnto a darke unknowen chyrche of electes the strength of whyche heresye hys owne wordes here haue coÌ„founded he must nedys confesse that Crystes chyrche is the chyrche that we be of and out of whyche hym selfe is downe fallen by vnfaythfulnes in to the depe dongeon of the deuyll And now syth of hys owne confessyon he must byleue the doctryne of the chyrch of Cryste and of the same confessyon of hys owne it foloweth that the chyrche of Cryste is thys comon knowen chyrche that hath from Crystes dayes hytherto contynued and that it is euydent also that by the doctryne of that chyrche the doctryne of Tyndale concernynge the blessed sacrament is false for euer hath it ben by that chyrche of Cryste taught that the blessed sacrament shold be worshypped and fayth to be put therin wherof Tyndale techeth the contrary it is ineuytably concluded vppon Tyndales owne wordes that Tindale is agaynste Crystes owne blessed person a dedly deuelâ—she heretyke Now syth ye playnely perceyue good crysteÌ„ reders that thys malycyouse man entendeth to tourne pore symple soulys out of the very fayth and of the .vii. holy sacramentes wolde take fyue awaye and the other twayne that he wolde seme to leue he handeleth yet in such wyse as men may well se that he leueth them as frutelesse as the other and fynally in effecte beleueth neyther nother there wyll no good man loke that we sholde now nede to proue these holy sacramentes to be trew which all crysteÌ„ peple haue this .xv. C. yere beleued bycause that now a fonde felow and a folyshe heretyque denyeth them excepte that any man were so madde to dowte whyther there were any god at all yf he happed to here any man so madde to say nay And surely there was neuer secte of heretyques yet that there was so great madnes to beleue as these For of other heretyques that haue bene of olde euery secte had some one heresye or ellys very few Now these heretyques come in wyth almoste all that euer all they held and yet mo to All the other heretyques hadde some pretexte of holynes in theyr lyuyng these shamelesse heretiques lyue in opeÌ„ shamfull incestuouse lechery and call yt matrymony The olde heretyques dyd stykke vppon scrypture wheÌ„ yt was yet in a manner new receyued and they contended vppon the vnderstandynge at such tyme as there had few crysten wryters expowned the scrypture byfore them so as they myght the better say to the catolyque chyrch why may not we perceyue the scrypture as well as you but these new heretyques be so farre fro shame that in the vnderstandynge of scrypture and in the affyrmynge of all theyr heresyes they wolde be byleued by theyr onely worde agaynste all the old holy doctours that haue bene synnys the deth of Criste vnto this daye and that in those roten heresyes to whych they fynde condemned to the deuyll by the generall counsayles of all crystendome a thousande yere afore theyr dayes and moost madde of all in denyeng the sacramentes whych they fynde receyued byleued vsed honoured so clerely from the begynnynge that neuer was there heretyque that durst for very shame so boldely barke agaynst them tyll that now in these latter dayes the deuyll hath broke his chaynes and of all extreme abomynacyon hathe set his poysoned barell a broche froÌ„ the dreggy draught wherof god kepe euery good crysten man and such as hath dronkeÌ„ therof geue theÌ„ grace to vomyte yt out agayne by tyme. This longe dygressyon haue I made you to lette you playnly se the sommary purpose and effecte of Tyndales doctryne touchynge the holy sacramentes whych knowen vnto good meÌ„ne suffyseth to make theyr hertes abhorâ—e his dyuelyshe doctryne wythout any ferther argumeÌ„t And as for them that at the bare herynge therof abhorre yt not they be surely so sore infected that excepte the meruelouse mercy of god neuer shall there eyther reason or authorite make them sauour the trouth But nowe that Tyndale hath commended vnto you the hygh spirytuall wysedome of vnfaythfull heretiques he begynneth on the tother syde to rebuke and reproue the trew fayth of all good faythfull people Tyndale But the world captyâ—ateth his wyt and aboute the law of god maketh hyâ— wonderfull ymagynacyons vnto whyche he so faste cleueth that tâ—Ì„nâ— Iâ—hnÌ„ Baptistes were not able to dyspute them out of his hed More Now that Tyndale hathe done with his owne spyrituall parte hath as ye haue herd holyly declared how hygh spyrytuall wysedome they vse in serchynge the very botome of the cause in euery commauÌ„dement that god geueth and accordynge to the thynge whych they take for the cause so order them selfe eyther kepe the commaundement or breke yt now commeth he to thoter parte that is to all that are no heretykes whom he before called naturall and not borne agayne nor renewed with the spyrtie all which folke he calleth here the worlde and sayth that the worlde captyuateth hys wyt about the law of god maketh hym wonderfull ymagynacyons vnto whych he so faste cleaueth that teÌ„ne IohnÌ„ Baptystes were not able to dyspute them oute of his hed Here he meaneth that hym selfe and his felowes spyrytuall heuenly men be not captyuate vnto the lawe of god as we pore worldely meÌ„ of mydle erth be For they be no ferther bounden to the law but as the cause of the
lyuynge Titi. 1 And in his epistle to Titus he toke yt for no synne to alledge the poetes versys but in the disprayse of them of Crete for vsyng of Tyndales fasshyoÌ„ in lyenge and also in geuynge the worlde warnyng to beware of such as Tyndale is whose euyll wordes and sermons do corrupte and marre mennys good maners as his doth where he wolde make menne wene that good maners were nothynge worth And thus yf Tyndale grauÌ„t the tone parte that is to say that of olde tyme they preched both the worde of god wryten and vnwryten then he wynneth nothynge for euen so do they in the new tyme to Now yf he wyll not saye they preched both of olde tyme but that of olde tyme they preched onely the tone that is to wyt the worde of god wryten then must we wytte of Tyndale whych he calleth the olde tyme. For this I wote well so dothe Tyndale to that fyrste of all Cryste our sauyour hym selfe preched more then his worde wryten and promysed also wythoute wrytynge and was byleued then wythout wrytynge that he wolde sende the holy goost that shold teache his chyrch all trewth wythout wrytyng Cryst full trewly fulfylled his promyse without wryting and yet will not Tyndale now byleue hym wythout wrytynge and after Cristes deth dyd his apostles preache mych more of goddes worde theÌ„ was writeÌ„ And therfore yf Tyndale grownd hys argument vppon the olde tyme and say that they preched onely goddes worde wryten I haue dreuen hym onwarde one steppe downe for I haue shewed hym here the oldest tyme and the best tyme of Crystendome in whyche he can neuer wreste out but that he shall confesse that all the crysten prechours that is to wyt all the euangelystes and all the apostles of Cryste and Cryste hym selfe also besyde the scrypture preched goddes word vnwryten as longe as euer they lyued For I truste that Tyndale as madde as he is is not yet so madde as to thynke that after that some of the apostles had wryteÌ„ eyther gospels or pystles that then they alleged theyr owne wrytynges for theyr authoryte or theyr owne felowes eyther as though theyr owne wordes theyr owne wrytynge were not all of one credence But now yf Tyndale be not content to stande to that olde tyme and wyll saye that he spake of olde tyme but not of so â—lde then â—yth he compareth the olde tyme wyth thys tyme that is now we must aske hym whyche tyme is that whych he taketh for the olde tyme in respecte of this newe tyme now we call an olde man ye wote well at fourscore yere and at an hundred yere very olde wyll Tyndale stande to yâ— tyme wyll he stande at two huÌ„dred iii. hundred iiii v vi vii viii Nay surely he wyll none of all those huÌ„dredes For he sayth in hys preface that all thys eyghte hundred yere and aboue the prechours haue ben false and haue falsyfyed the scrypture Now semeth me that eyghte hundred yere is in respect of now a metely old tyme. And syth he sayth that by all this old tyme they haue not preched goddys worde well I wolde knowe whyche is that olde tyme in whyche they preched goddys worde well and the worde onely wryten wythout any prechynge of any worde of god vnwryten and toke for vayne and faâ—se all that euer were called goddys worde but yf they fouÌ„de it wryten Let Tyndale noâ— tell vs that olde tyme. For this must he tell vs or els he takâ—th a fowle fall Now wyll he make many shyâ—â—es and â—â— the last he shall be fayne to fall bothe into hys owne poeâ—â—y and also in to hys grammer agayne and come forth wyth hys .iii. degrees of compacyson olde elder and eldest And syth neyther the oldest 〈◊〉 of Cryst and hys apostels aâ—ayâ— serue hym bycause the 〈…〉 besyde scrypâ—tâ—â—e the â—â—orde of god 〈◊〉 tâ—n nor 〈…〉 tyâ—â— of eyghâ—◠〈◊〉 yâ—res nowe laÌ„ste passed bycause they preched as Tyndale sayth dyuerse sacramentes ceremonyes and promyses as the wordes of god vnwryten in whych he sayth they preched false but he wyll take an elder tyme then thys and not so olde as that that is to wyt the tyme next after the apostels dayes and he wyll say that all the wordes of god were then all redy wryteÌ„ by the euaÌ„gelystes and the apostels so that there was none of goddys wordes lefte vnwryten and therfore after theyr dayes by a certeyne tyme the trewe prechers preched purely the bare worde of god wryten in holy scrypture well nowe be Tindale and I comen at last to some poynt For he sayth a thynge here wyth whiche he answereth me well and with good grammer sauynge for his poetry for that marreth all hys mater For I saye surely that he sayth not trouth but that of goddes wordes they wrote not all but dyuers thynges were by god to them and by them to other taughte by mouth and by tradycyon from hande to hande delyuered and from age to age hytherto contynued in Crystes chyrch And that I saye trewth in thys poynt I haue dyuers good and honest wytnesses to bryng forth when tyme requyreth saynt Austayne saynt Hyerom saynt Cypryan saynt Chrysostem and a greate many mo whyche haue also testefyed for my parte in thys mater more then a thousand yere a go yet haue I a nother auncyent sad father also one that they call Origene And when I desyred hym to take the payne to come and bere wytnesse wyth me in thys mater he semed at the fyrst very well content But when I tolde hym that he sholde mete with Tindale he blessed hym selfe shranke bakke and sayde he had leuer go some other waye many a myle then onys medle wyth hym For I shall tell you syrquod he before thys tyme a ryght honorable man very connyng and yet more vertuouse the good bysshoppe of Rochester in a great audyeÌ„ce brought me in for a wytnes agaynst Luther and Tyndale euyn in thyâ— same mater aboute the tyme of the burnynge of Tyndalys euyll translated testament But Tyndale as sone as he herde of my name without any respecte of honestye fell in a rage wyth me and all to rated me and called me starke heretyke and that the starkeste that euer was Thys tale Orygene tolde me swore by saynt Symkyn that he was neuer so sayed vnto of suche a lewde felowe synnys he was fyrste borne of hys mother and therfore he wolde neuer medle wyth Tyndale more Now in dede to say the treuth yt was not well done of Tyndale to leue resonynge and fall a scoldyng chydynge and brawlynge as yt were a bawdy begger of byllyter lane Fy for shame he sholde haue fauored forborne hym somwhat and yt had bene but for his age For Origene is now .xiii. hundred yere olde or there aboute and this was not mych aboue .vii. yere synnes Now yf this made Tyndale bold to set Origene as short as his olde shone bycause saynt
¶ The cōfutacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chaūcellour of Englonde ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1532 CVM PRIV 〈…〉 ¶ The preface to the crysten reader OUr lorde sende vs nowe some yeres as plentuouse of good corne as we haue hadde some yeres of late plentuouse of euyll bokes For they haue growen so faste and sprongen vppe so thykke full of pestylent errours and pernyciouse he resyes that they haue enfected and kylled I fere me mo sely symple soules thē the famyne of the dere yeres haue destroyed bodyes And surely no lytle cause there is to drede that the great haboundaunce and plentye of the tone is no lytle cause and occasyon of the great derth and scarcite of the tother For syth that our lorde of his especyall prouydence vseth temporally to punyshe the hole people for the synnys of some parte to cōpell the good folke to forbere abhorre the noughty wherby they maye brynge them to amendement and auoyd them selfe the cōtagyō of theyr cōpanye wysdome were it for vs to perceyue y◠lyke as folke beginne now to delyte in fedyng theyr soules of the venemouse caryn of those poysened heresyes of whyche maye well be veryfyed the wordes of holy wryt 4. Regum 4. deth is in the pot our lorde lykewyse agaynwarde to reuenge yt wythall begynneth to wythdraw hys gracyouse hande from the frutes of the erth mynyshynge the fertylyte both in corne and catell and bryngynge all in derth myche more then men can remedy or fully fynde out the cause And yet bysyde thys somwhere he sendeth warre sykenesse and mortalyte to punyshe in the fleshe that odyouse and hatefull synne of the soule that spoyleth the frute from all maner of vertues I meane vnbylyefe false fayth and infydelyte and to tell you all at ones in playne englyshe heresye And I say that god nowe bygynneth For I fere me surely that excepte folke begynne to reforme that fawte the soner god shall not fayle in suche wyse to go forwarde that we shall well perceyue and fele by thencreace of our greyfe that all this gere hytherto is but a begynning yet The prophete Hely as it is wryten in the thyrde boke of kynges for the infydelyte and idolatry that then was vsed in Israell by his hartye prayour made vnto god kepte that whole cuntre frō rayne by the space of .iii. yeres and a halfe not of euyll wyll or malyce but of deuocyon and pytye by the payne pynchynge of the bodyes to compell men to remember they re soules whyche ellys were in parell of peryshynge by false idolatrye Nowe all be yt that these bolde shamelesse heretyques haue of longe whyle neyther letted nor ceaced falsely to insymulate and accuse the chyrche of god callynge all good crysten people idolatres for honourynge of sayntes and reuerēt byhauour vsed at theyr images yet that haue they done so farre agaynste theyr owne conscyence by whyche them selfe well wote that the chirche vseth to sayntes and ymages none honour but ordinate not honouryng images but for the sayntes sake nor sayntes but for the sake of god neyther image as saynte nor saynt as god this knoweth I say Tyndale hym selfe so well and thereby so farre hath rayled agaynste his owne conscyence that nowe at the laste in his answere to my boke he retreateth so farre bakke that he reuoketh almoste all that euer he sayde byfore is fayne now to graunte that cristen men may haue images knele byfore them to as ye shall hereafter se when we shall come to the place But we on the tother syde saye playnely vnto them that the thynges wherwyth they corrupte the worlde are of infydelyte and faythlesse idolatrye the very moste cursed kynde The chyefe euyll in an idole was that yt bare the name of god eyther yt selfe or the deuyll that yt represented and beyng so reputed and wurshyped for god robbed the reuerence and deuoute honour fro god Now when Tyndale calleth his heresyes by the name of fayth and maketh men serue the deuyll whyle they wene to serue god what abomynable idolatrye is this If yt be idolatry to put truste in the deuyll serue the deuyll wyth fayth yt is worse then idolatrye to make men wene they serue god wyth fayth whyle they dyspyte hym wyth a false bylyefe And yf it be very infydelyte to do as the Turkes do byd men byleue in Machometes alchoran yt is more infydelyte to do as Tyndale hath done purposely mysse translate Crystes holy gospell to sette forth heresyes as euyll as the Alchorane And yf it be idolatry to do as the paynēs dyd make an idole god yt muste nedes be myche worse idolatry to do as these heretykes do that call god the cause of all euyll and therby make god not a vayne idole but a very deuyll And what can be worse kynd of infydelyte◠then to make bokes of heresyes and call them the ryght fayth And what more abomynable infydelyte then to abuse the scrypture of god to the colour of theyr false bylyef◠And what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue that the sacramentes that god hath ordeyned by his holy spyryte be but inuencyons of man or as Tyndale sayth of confessyon but inuencyon of the deuyll And what can be worse bylyefe then to byleue that goddes word is not to be byleued but yf yt be put in wrytyng Or what can be a worse bylyefe then to byleue y◠mennis good wurkes be they neuer so well done be yet nothyng worthe nor the man neuer the better for them nor no rewarde for them commyng towarde man in heuen Or what can be a wurse bylyefe thē to byleue that a man doth wronge to pray for hys fathers soule Or what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that a man may as sleyghtely regarde whytson sonday◠as hokke monday and as boldely eate fleshe on good frydaye as on shroue tuysdaye And what can be a wurse bylyefe then to byleue that none other synne can dampne a man but onely lakke of bylyefe And yf yt be idolatrye to do as the Paynems do geue wurshyppe vnto an idole how myche is yt wurse then idolatrye to do as Tyndale doth forbed vs to geue wurshippe to the very bodye and blessed blood of god in the holy sacrament of the auter These pestylent infydelytees and these abominable kyndes of idolatryes farre excede◠and passe and incomparbly more offende the maieste of our lorde god then all the secretynge vppe of Beel and Baal and Belzabub and all the deuyls in hell wherfore lyke as in other places where these heresyes haue taken deper rote ben more sprede abrode god hath taken more depe and sore vengeaunce not onely by derth and deth but also by batayle and sworde so is yt to be fered that for the receypte of these pestylent bokes our lorde sendeth vs some lakke of corne and catayle for a begynnynge and wyll not fayle