Prince as his delegates or from the Princes superiour Must not Pastours doe the like Princes cannot authorize Pastours to preach the worde administer the Sacraments remitte sinnes and impose handes these things are exempted from the Princes power and charge the King of heauen hath appointed for that purpose Messengers of his will and Stewardes of his mysteries without taking their authoritie from earthlie Princes but to redresse the disorders and abuses of these things in others and to displace the doers that neither Pastoures nor laie Presbyters may chalenge to doe without the Magistrates consent and helpe where the State is Christian And where the State is not Christian from whom shall the Pastours deriue their power to represse disordered actions in others When the Church is not protected and assisted by the sword but oppressed and pursued as where the Magistrate is an heretike or an Infidell the whole may detect and disclaime any part as vnsound and vnsufferable Idcirco copiosum est corpus Sacerdotum c. Therefore saieth Cyprian is the number of Priestes many that if one of our societie should attempt to vphold an heresie and to spoyle and waste the flocke of Christ the rest might helpe represse him yea the people haue by Gods lawe where there wanteth a Christian Magistrate the desertion but not coertion of wicked and corrupt Pastours They may decline them and forsake them they may not compell them or punish them Uiolence and vengeance belong onely to the Princes sworde not to any priuate persons or assemblies Marke them saieth Paul that cause diuisions and offences contrarie to the doctrine which you haue learned and decline them My sheepe saith Christ heare my voyce and folow me A stranger they will not follow but flie from him And so Cyprian and the rest of the Bishops with him being consulted answere Separate your selues saieth God from the tabernacles of these wicked men and touch nothing of all that is theirs least you perish together with them in their sinnes Wherefore the people obeying the Lordes precept ought to separate themselues from a sinnefull Pastour or ouerseer and not to participate with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest since they chiefly where the publike state embraceth not the faith haue power to admit or choose worthie Pastours and to refuse vn worthie The best writers of our age and those no small number interprete the words of S. Paul as we doe and affirme that laie Elders were gouernours of the Church in the Apostles time and part of the Presbyterie Some learned and late writers liuing vnder persecution or in free Cities where the people and Senate beare the greatest sway haue liked and commended this fourme of gouerning the Church by laie Elders ioyned in one Presbyterie with the Teachers and Pastours but I see not how it may bee defended by the word of God as tolerable except they deriue the power of that Presbyterie from the whole Church in time of persecution and in time of peace from the Magistrate in which case they be no Elders authorized by Christ or his Apostles to gouerne the Church but Commissioners deputed by the State to moderate disorders in Pastours and Teachers and so though they may haue the ouer sight of ecclesiasticall causes pertaining properly to the magistrate yet may they not chalenge any interest or right if they be laie men to impose hands or exclude frō the Sacraments which is the Pastours power and charge Otherwise if any late writers be otherwise minded I say of them as Austen sayde of Cyprian Their writings I hold not as Canonical but examine thē by the Canonical writings and in them what agreeth with the authoritie of the diuine Scriptures I accept with their praise what agreeth not I refuse with their leaues To whose praise I cannot attaine with whose labors I compare not mine whose wits I embrace with whose wordes I am delighted whose charities I admire whose deaths I honour their iudgements in that they were otherwise minded I receiue not God suffereth the best mē to haue some blemishes lest their writings shold be receiued as authentike The Text should not differ frō the gloze if both were of like trueth and certaintie In much writing many things scape the best learned euen as with long watching men oftentimes winke It is no wrong to their labours nor touch to their credites to say their writings and resolutions be not alwayes Canonicall The disputations of Catholike praise-worthie men saith Austen we ought not to esteeme as wee doe the Canonicall Scriptures that we may not without blemishing the honor due vnto those men mislike or refuse some what in their writings if happely wee finde that they otherwise thought then the trueth warranteth vnderstoode by Gods helpe either of others or of our selues Such am I in other mens writings such woulde I haue the readers of mine to be Their learning would preuaile much with me as it doth with others men I suppose of no euill mind but zealous for that which they take to be the trueth were it not that the very places which they draw to this intent in the iudgement of as learned and more ancient writers and fathers import no such thing and other places of the Scriptures where Elders are named doe rather contradict then authorize Lay Elders Paul sent for the Elders of the Church of Ephesus to Miletum and gaue them this charge Take heede to your selues and to the whole flocke ouer which the holie Ghost hath made you Bishops to feede the Church of God If all the Elders came to Miletum they were all Pastours and Bishops if your Lay Elders came not why stayed they at home Paul sending for y e Elders They must loose that name or take this charge choose which you will If they for sooke the name of Elders I haue my desire if they vndertooke this charge they were not Lay they were Pastours and Bishops I shall not neede to prooue the confinitie betweene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as if they could feede the flocke and not be Pastours The charge that Christ gaue to Peter as an Apostle was this feede my sheepe If they did that they were Sheepeheards if they did not they were no Elders And so saith Peter The Elders that are among you I exhort being my selfe an Elder feede the flocke of God left to your care and when the chiefe Sheepeheard shall appeare you shall receiue an incorruptible crowne of glorie They must ioyne with him in Pastorall paines before they shall receiue a Pastorall reward If it be not their function to feede it must not be their lot to be called Elders The communion of the name and charge must goe together The Apostles wordes to Titus will soone declare what Elders were in his dayes For this cause I left thee in Creete that thou should est appoint Elders in euery Citie if any be vnreprooueable for a
people from Priests is neither prophane nor strange in the Scriptures There shall be saieth Esay like people like Priest And so saieth Osee as also Ieremie diuideth the Church into the Prophet Priest and People As for the name of Clergie men Ierome saieth Proptereà vocantur Clerici vel quia de sorte sunt Domint vel quia ipse Dominus sors idest pars Clericorum est Therfore are they called Clergie men or Clerkes either because they are the Lordes portion to serue the Church of Christ or for that the Lord is their portion part to liue on such things as are dedicated to the Lord. The Laie hee calleth Seculares Secular men which word is not so good as Laici the Laitie or people The name of Presbyter I vse not thereby meaning aged and ancient men of what calling soeuer they be as the word sometimes signifieth and wherewith I see many that fauour the Presbyterie deceiued and deceiuing others but I vse it for those whom the Apostles call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Presbyters whence our tongue following the French long since deriued Priests who for their age should be Elders and by their office are ministers of the word and Sacraments and ouerseers of the flocke of Christ. And though there can be no doubt but very often in the Scriptures 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Latine Seniores in English Elders are taken for Pastours Teachers and such as laboured in the word and dispensed the Sacraments yet some more zealous then discreet no sooner he are of the word Presbyter or Senior an Elder in Scriptures or Fathers but they straightway dreame of their laie Presbyterie which is the greatest ground of all their errour and lightest proofe that may possiblie be brought For which cause I am forced often to distinguish the ministers of the word from such as some men would haue to bee Gouernours of the Church by the name of Presbyter and not of Elder which in our tongue is more common to aged men then to Clergie men But howsoeuer they may play with wordes to make some the we that Elders were Gouernours of Christes Church in the Apostles times assuredly no man is able to 〈◊〉 that laie men were publike Gouernours to ordaine ministers or remooue sinners from the Lordes table while the Apostles liued and after their deaths the longer we search the further we are from finding any such Elders The whole Church by the very wordes of our Sauiour might exclude disobedient and froward persons from their felowship as Etâ—nikes and Publicanes and bind them both in heauen and earth I haue answered alreadie that those wordes of Christ by the verâ—â— confession of such as are the greatest defenders of this newe discipline were spoken of the Iudges and Magistrates of the Iewes And if by the credite and authoritie of the fathers wee will needes haue them spoken of Christes Church wee must then take the Church for the Pastours and leaders of the Church that haue receiued power from Christ to binde and loose in heauen and earth Lastly if we intend nothing els by those wordes Let him be to thee as an Ethnike and Publicane but refraine all company with him and eate no more with him then thou wouldest with an Ethnike and Publicane this charge pertaineth rather to the whole Church then to any laie Elders or Gouernours in the Church The Apostles wordes When you are gathered together put away from among you that wicked man are rather directed to the whole Congregation then to any laie Elders in the Church of Corinch as are also these that folow I wrate vnto you that you should not company together with fornicatours but nowe I haue written vnto you if any man that is called a brother bee a fornicator or couetous an Idoâ—ater railer drunkard or extortioner with such an one eate not Must onely the laie Elders or all the multitude auoyd the companie of such enormous persons I beseech you brethren saieth Paul obserue those which cause diuisions and offences against the doctrine which you haue learned and decline them Should none but Elders and Teachers shunne Schismatikes and hainous malefactours or must the people and hearers doe the like If any man obey not our sayings keepe no companie with him that he may be ashamed yet count him not an enemie but admonish him as a brother Shall wee thinke the Apostle thought it sufficient for soâ—â— fewe laie Elders to forbeare the company of such disordered persons or doeth hee will the whole Church with one consent to shunne all societie with such vnrulie ones that they may bee ashamed Then yet the whole Church might excommunicate and not Pastours onely With open reproouing by the word and excluding from the Sacraments such as notoriouslie sinned Pastours and Prophets might intermeddle the people and laie Elders might not it was no part of their charge but in banishing malefactours from all fellowship and companie both ciuill and sacred with the faithfull the Pastours were to direct the people to assist and execute that iudgement The Apostle doeth not leaue it to peoples liking as a matter indifferent till they haue consented but enioineth it as a necessarie duetie and commandeth them in the name of Christ Iesus to withdraw themselues from euery brother that walked inordinately For as S. Iohn warneth vs He that receiueth to his house the bringer of another doctrine or biddeth him good speede is partaker of his euill deedes And so is euery one that with countenance fauour or familiaritie doeth embolden the wicked to goe on in any other lewdnesse when by Christian dutie he should reproue such offenders if they persist renounce al societie with them yea where there wanteth a beleeuing magistrate the Pastours shall not doe wisely to proceed to any such rigour against wilfull and obstinate sinners without the knowledge and consent of the people for feare of contempt if the most part mislike or factions if the multitude be deuided If Pastours in such cases were to staie for the liking of the whole Church is it not more likely that the people did referre the hearing and censuring of all such matters to certaine chosen Elders of themselues rather then in a tumult confusedly without any Iudiciall forme determine such causes That if wee euict wee make no doubt that laie Elders were Gouernours in the Church of Christ as well as Pastours Indeed likelihoods and surmises were the best demonstrations that euer were made for your supposed discipline but if this hee all you will neuer euict any thing The people might well relie themselues on the credite and conscience of their Pastours and beleeue them in other mens cases whom they trusted with their owne soules Againe they might approoue and confirme their Pastours iudgement in an open assemblie without an vprore things were at that time handled in the Church religiously not tumultuously Lastly if the people did appoint certaine wise and sufficient
matters to whom the Apostolike power and charge which must alwayes remaine in the Church may be communicated and imparted and those are Presbyters and Bishops By Presbyters I meane those whom all the Catholike Fathers and Councils with one consent call Presbyteros placing them in the middle betweene Bishops and Deacons when they deuide the Clergie into Episcopos Presbyterosâ— Diaconos Bishops Presbyters and Deacons Laiâ— Elders I ouerskip as meere strangers to all antiquitie So that when I speake of Presbyteries I vnderstand thereby the assemblies of such Presbyters as were Clergie men and in euery Citie assisted the Bishop in the seruice of God and aduised the Bishop in all other affaires of the Church Thus much I premonish least the often vse of the word Presbyter in this chapter should either perplexe or vnsettle the Reader The times must like wise be remembred The Apostles both in teaching and gouerning the Churches when they were present had helpers when they were absent had substitutes after their finall departures or deathes left successours So that the things originally descending from the Apostles and continuallie remayning in the Church are the charge of the worde and Sacraments and the power of keyes and handes the persons to whom they were committed either Presbyters or Bishops the times when the presence absence departure or death of the Apostles If wee neglect or confound these partes wee shall but roaue in the aire at the right gouernement of the Church if wee obserue them wee shall force the Question to an Issue that will not deceiue vs. And first for the worde and Sacraments It may not bee deuied but as the worde and Sacraments are the most essentiall seedes of the Church so the handling and sowing thereof in the Lordes ground must bee the generall and principall charge of all Pastours and Presbyters that eyther feede or rule the flocke of Christ. for whether they be Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastours or Teachers I meane such as Paul reckoneth to the Ephesians for the worke of the Ministerie or as the holy Ghost in other places calleth them Bishops and Presbyters this power is common to them all Without the worde and Sacraments the Saintes are not gathered the Church is not edified faith is not perfited heauen is not opened wherefore in preaching the worde and administring the Sacramentes the Scriptures know no difference betwixt Pastours and Teachers Bishops and Presbyters Had not our Sauiour deliuered both in one ioynt Commission to his Apostles when he willed them to goe and teach all Nation baptizing them Paul sheweth that preaching the worde was of the twaine the greater and woorthier part of his Apostolike function Christ sent mee not to baptize but to preach the Gospell not that hee might not or did not vse both but the latter was the chiefer So Iohn preached the baptisme of repentance not deuiding the offer of the worde from the confirmation of the Sacrament but ioyning them both together as coherent and consequent the one to the other for God doeth not send his messengers to make emptie promises but ratifieth the trueth of his speach with the seales of his word which are the Sacraments And therfore hee that hath charge from God to preach the one hath also leaue to performe the other Whom God hath placed in his church that by his mouth we should beleeue by his hands also we may bee baptized as appeareth by Philip conuerting and baptizing not onely the Eunuche but the whole Citie of Samaria and for that cause S. Austen iustly calleth as well Presbyters as Bishops Ministers of the word and Sacraments A newe distinction is lately deuised that Pastours in Saint Paul were such as had not onely the word and Sacraments but also the Church and charge of soules committed vnto them and Teachers those that laboured in doctrine but receiued no charge neither of Sacramentes nor soules In deede Ambrose taketh them for Catechizers of Infants and at Alexandria there were moderators of Schooles resembling our Uniuersities for the training and instructing of such as in time were likely to profit the Church of God but these were not ecclesiasticall functions in the Church they were profitable members of a common wealth that so did but no necessarie workemen in the ministerie And though there were such for a season at Alexandria yet all other Cities and Churches had not the like and they that gouerned those Schooles and taught the Catechumes there as Pantenus Clemens and Origen were Laie men and neuer vsed at Alexandria to teach the people in the Church as appeareth by Demetrius wordes then Bishop of Alexandria finding great fault with the Bishops of Ierusal in and Cesaria for suffering Origen after hee had bene Catechist at Alexandria to expound the Scriptures before the people in the Church His wordes are these It was neuer heard nor euer suffered that Laie men should teach in the Church in the presence of Bishops With no face could the Bishop of Alerandria haue disliked Origens fact if it had bene vsuall in his owne Church and the Bishops that wrate in defence of the matter doe not auouch it was a generall or perpetuall rule in the Church of Christ for a Catechizer to teach in the Church but alleage three instances where they sawe the like vsed and confesse they knew no more Wherefore vnlesse their examples and reasons were stronger and surer I preferre the iudgement of Ierome Augustine Chrysostome Theodorete and others before this late conceite who thinke the Apostle expressed one office by two names to shew what things belonged to the Pastorall charge Austen Pastours and Doctours whom you greatly desired I should distinguish I thinke to bee all one as you doe not that wee should conceiue some to be Pastours others to bee Doctours but therefore he subioyned Doctours to Pastours that Pastours might vnderstand doctrine pertained to their office Euery Pastour is a Doctour saieth Ierome Pastours and Doctours saieth Chrysostome were they to whom the whole people were committed and they were inferiour to those that went about preaching the Gospell because dwelling in more quietnesse they were employed onely in one place Paul calleth them Pastours and Doctours saieth Theodorete which were deputed and fastened to a Citie or village Oecumenius by Pastours and Teachers Paul meaneth Bishops to whome the Churches were committed But grant Pastours and Doctours were distinct offices in the Church as you imagine what gaine you by it You may thereby prooue an inequalitie of ecclesiasticall functions you prooue nothing els Obey your Ouerseers saieth Paul and bee subiect to them they watch ouer your soules to giue account for them Obedience and subiection to the Pastour is due from the whole flocke and all degrees thereof which are no Pastours but Teachers as you say were no Pastors they were therfore inferiour to Pastors and subiect to their ouersight Now take your choice if Pastors
places and offices distinguished or digested they tooke an other order then at beginning And why The first regarde the Apostles had was to gaine vnbeleeuers to Christ the second to gouerne such as were gained And these two respects might best be perfourmed by two contrarie courses To encrease the Church the more workemen the better For when the Haruest is great if the Labourers bee fewe the roumes can not be filled To guide the Church the fewer the better except it bee with counsell to aduise For diuerse men haue diuers minds and diuers meanings and in a multitude of Gouernours emulation and dissention are no rare springs Wherefore no maruell though the Apostles tooke besides themselues as many helpers as they coulde to conuert the worlde vnto Christ and yet tooke not vnto themselues as many Rulers as they coulde in euerie place to gouerne the beleeuers By order of nature men must bee gotten together afore they neede bee gouerned and so in the building of the Church the number of Preachers at the first was more requisite then the choice of Gouernours And for that cause Epiphanius second position is verie true That Presbyters and Deacons the one to labour in the worde and dispence the Sacraments the other to releeue the poore and attend to diuine Seruice were euerie where appointed by the Apostles These were sufficient to beginne the Churches and these were fittest to increase the Church And therefore in many places the Apostles left none other but these If you aske who then gouerned the Churches in those beginnings I answere the flocke was both augmented and directed by the Presbyters that laboured in the worde The chiefe gouernement to impose handes and deliuer vnto Satan rested yet in the Apostles who often visited the Churches which they planted and ordained Presbyters as they passed to supplie the wantes of euerie Church The third point in Epiphanius reporte is this that although it be not extant in the Apostles writings that in euerie place where they came at first they left Bishops yet the Scriptures do witnesse that Paul furnished some places with Bishops as Ephesus and Creete with Timothie and Tite Thus farre I see not what you can refell in Epiphanius Perchance you will deride Epiphanius simplicitie that coulde not discerne betwixt an Euangelist and a Bishop for as you maintaine Timothie and Tite were Euangelists and not Bishops and had an extraordinarie and no ordinarie calling You can not charge Epiphanius with ignoraunce in this behalfe but you must doe the like to the eldest and best learned Fathers of the Primitiue Church namely Eusebius Ambrose Chrysostome Ierome Oecumenius Primasius and others which affirme as Epiphanius doth that Timothie was a Bishop ordeined by S. Paul but thereof anon as also whether an Euangelist might bee a Bishop or no which conclusions of yours though they be most feeble and vnsure yet they be lately taken up for Oracles That which may be doubted in Epiphanius is this The cause why Bishops wanted in some places was saith he the lacke of fit men to beare the office It may be some will thinke it strange that amongest so many Prophets Pastours and Teachers as were in most of those Churches which Paul planted not a fit man could be found for the Episcopal function and yet afterward meete men were found for all the Churches in the worlde but as that which Epiphanius saith might be some cause of wanting Bishops at the first so if I be not deceiued there were other causes that mooued the Apostles not straight wayes to place Bishops in euerie Church where they preached which I will specifie when the testimonies of Ambrose and Ierome be throughly perused Ambrose at first sight seemeth somewhat to dissent from Epiphanius in that he thinketh the Churches had both Presbyters and Bishops left them by the Apostles and the Presbyters were placed in an order according to the deserts and worthines of eche man by the Apostles and others that founded the Churches and this rule deliuered that as the first and chiefest Presbyter who was Bishop in name and superiour in calling to the rest failed so the next should succeede in his roume and enioy the Episcopall chaire and power after his departure And when some Presbyters did not answere the expectation which was had of them but scandalized the Church that course of standing in order to succeede was changed and Bishops were chosen by the iudgement and liking of many Priests to cut off vnworthie and offensiue men from the place I could admit this report of Ambrose but that he expresseth not when and by whome this change beganne he saieth Prospiciente Concilio A Council fore seeing or prouiding that not order but merite should create a Bishop but what Council If he meant a Councill of the Apostles which is not expressed but may well bee intended for the wordes stand indifferent to any Councill no testimonie can be weightier for Bishops then this of Ambrose which is brought against them If he meant others after the Apostles deaths what authoritie had they to change the Apostolike gouernment or by their decree to bind the whole world But this I reserue till Ieromes witnesse bee repeated and examined Ierom in his words before cited auoucheth three special things first that til dissentions sprang in the Church Bishops and Presbyters were all one and the Churches were gouerned by the common aduise of Presbyters amongst whom the care of the Church was equally diuided Next that to roote out schismes rising verie fast through the Preachers and Presbyters factions by a decree throughout the whole worlde one of the Presbyters was chosen in euery Church and set ouer the rest and to him the whole care of the Church did euer after appertaine Thirdly that this subiection of the Presbyters vnder the Bishop and maioritie of Bishops aboue Presbyters grewe rather by the custome of the Church then by the trueth of the Lords disposition for they should rule the Church in common These wordes of Ierome may be either verie true according to the time that they be referred vnto or verie false If you so conster Ierome that all the while the Apostles liued Bishops were al one with Presbyters and had no more charge nor power in the Church then Presbyters you make Ierome contradict the Scriptures himselfe the whole aray of all the ancient Fathers and Apostolike Churches that euerwere since Christs time for all these affirme and proue the contrarie But if you so expound Ierom that the Apostles for a time suffred the Presbyters to haue equall power and care in guiding the Church themselues alwayes sitting at the sterne and holding the helue whiles they were present in those parts of the worlde till by the factions and diuisions of so manie gouernors the Churches were almost rent in peeces and thereupon the Apostles forced did set an other order in the Church then was at first and with the good liking of all the
see you doe You haue not a word nor a tittle in the Scriptures for the power of your Presbytefies and yet you pronounce so peremptorilie and resolutelie of theÌ„ as if there were nothing els written in the newe Testament but the power of your Presbyters Did not the Presbyterie impose hands on Timothie to make him an Euangelist did not they watch and feede the flocke in the Apostles times did not the holy Ghost make them ouer seers of the Church what would you haue more Of laie men your Presbyteries either wholie or chieflie consist then they also be Pastours and Bishops and watch feed the flocke the holy Ghost hath set them ouer the Church they also impose hands as wel as the best And to say the trueth what thing is there so peculiar to Pastors which you do not communicate to your Presbyters for wheÌ„ you be vrged y â— Presbyters in the Apostles times were by dutie to doe those things which belonged properly to Pastorall care and ouersight and therefore laie men were no part of thâ—se Presbyteries you answere roundlie that laie Elders in the Consistorie do watch and feed and ouerlooke the flocke as well as Pastours and so not onely their power but also their charge is the very same as you say that the holy Ghost gaue vnto Pastors and yet they no Pastours And touching hands laied on Timothie by the Presbyterie you answere your selves for when you alleage that the Presbyterie did impose handes on Timothie wee aske you whether all the Presbyterie had right and power to impose handes or onely some of them If all then Laie Elders must either impose handes which Caluine conclusiuely denieth hoc postremo habendum est solos Pastores manus imposuisse Ministris this wee must vnderstand that onely Pastours imposed handes on Ministers or be no part of the Presbyterie If some onely imposed handes and yet the Presbyterie is said to doe that which not all but some fewe or one of them did In like maner Paul saieth the Presbyterie laied handes on Timothie when himselfe did the deede who was one of the Presbyterie And thus much Caluine likewise auoucheth Paâ—lus ipse se non alios complures Timotheo manus imposuisse commâ—morat Paul witnesseth that himselfe and none others laied handes on Timothie And strange it is to see you build the maine foundation of your Presbytericall power on a place that hath so many sound and sufficient answeres as this hath First Ierome Ambrose Primasius and Caluine tell you the worde Presbyterie signifieth in that place the degree and function which Timothie receiued not the Colledge and number of Presbyters Next Chrysostome Theodorete Oecumenius and Theophilact tell you that Paul by the Presbyterie meant the Bishops their names at first being common for that Presbyters might not laie handes on a Bishop such as Timothie was Thirdlie the Scriptures tell you that the Apostles Euangelists Prophetes and the seuentie disciples were of the Presbyteries in the first Church and they might well impose hands on Timothie without any Presbyters Fourthlie Saint Paul telleth you as Caluine well obserueth and vrgeth that himselfe and none others laied handes on Timothie Lastlie your selues say Timothie was an Euangelist which function and vocation the Presbyterie of no particular Church could giue him but onely the Apostles What power had the Church of Iconium or Ephesus to make Euangelists I meane such as should accompanie the Apostles and assist them in their trauailes If you trust neither Scriptures nor Fathers for shame trust your selues and your owne positions Howe shall other men beleeue your assertions when your selues doe not beleeue them If Timothie were an Euangelist they must be Apostles and no Presbyters that imposed handes on him If the Presbyterie of any particular Church imposed hands on him Timothie must be a Bishop and haue a locall charge in some Church which you impugne vnder pretence of his Euangelship Choose which yyu will so you choose some what and stand to it whrn you haue chosen it Were they Presbyters or no that imposed hands on Timothie If they were yet they did it iointlie with Paul and so without the Apostle or his successor Presbyters may not impose hands and then must Timothie be a Bishop when Paul wrate vnto him for Presbyters could not make him an Euangelist Were they no Presbyters but Apostles or others of higher calling Then maketh this place nothing for the power of Presbyters either to ordaine or depriue ministers of the word and Sacramentes and setting this aside what one iote finde you in the Scriptures concerning your Presbyteries The conclusion is We shew you substantiall and full proofe that TIMOTHIE AND HIS SVCCESSOVRS are charged by Paul to obserue these precepts of the holy Ghost in the Church of Christ for euer touching the admitting of fit ministers and remouing of vnfit Thence we inferre this power must be perpetuall in Bishops for they succeed Timothie in the Church the Presbyteries doe not On the other side you claime this authoritie from Bishops to your Presbyteries but you cannot prooue either their succession from Timothie or ioint commission with Timothie by any sentence or syllable in the Scriptures That they should feede and watch the flocke you vrge and we graunt in teaching and exhorting they were ioyned with Timothie by reason the labourers must of force be many where the haruest was so great as in the Apostles times but in ordaining and gouerning the Teachers as there was no need of many so is there no precept for many least by the multitude of Rulers order should be rather confused then preserued Wherefore as Timothie was placed at Ephesus and Tite in Creete to ordaine moderate and rebuke as well Presbyters as people so was Archippus at Colossus so were the seuen Pastours in the seuen Churches of Asia to whom the sonne of God wrate by S. Iohns penne so in all the Apostolike Churches were Apostolike men throughout the Christian world left to guide and gouerne the Churches of Christ with like power and to leaue the same to their successours for euer And this our construction and exposition of of S. Pauls words to Timothie the learned and ancient fathers confirme with one consent and the Catholike Church of Christ hath continued and performed in all ages and places since the Apostles deaths Meane you that Bishops alone might doe what they would without the knowledge or consent of their Presbyters My meaning is soone understood You establish one chiefe in your Presbyteries by Gods essentiall and perpetuall ordinaunce to execute that which you decree whom you call your President How farre I ioyne with you you shall quickly perceiue To auoyd tumults and dissentions God hath authorized one in each place and Church able to haue maintaine a Presbyterie who with Pastorall and fatherly moderation should guide as well the Presbyters that assist him as the people that are subiect to him according to the lawes of God and
as the people that were under them Our answere is easie and readie to all that you haue brought first the Bishops of the Primitiue Church which succeeded one another in euery place were all one with Presbyters as Ierome telleth you and then we graunt without exception all that you haue alleaged out of these ancient Fathers and Writers Next â—hen they make any difference betwixt Bishops and Presbyters as sometimes they doe by Bishops they vnderstand all Pastours and Ministers of the worde and Sacraments and by Presbyters they meane the laie Elders which wee seeke to restore Thirdly if you could prooue that Bishops were aboue other Ministers of the worde and Sacraments yet that superioritie was nothing els but a power to call the rest together to propose matters in doubt vnto them and to aske their voyces and consents by which the Bishops of those times were directed and from which they might by no meanes diuert to their owne wils and pleasures I know how easie readie a thing it is with you to say what you list if you may be trusted without any further triall but if it please you substantiallie to prooue these things which you afffirme or but any one of them you shal find it is a matter of greater difficultie and longer studie then you take it for Did you pleade before the poorest Iurie that is for earthly trifles they would not credite your worde without some witnesse and in matters of religion that touch the peace safetie of the whole Church of Christ do you looke your voluntarie should bee receiued without all authoritie or testimonie to warrant it if your follie be such as to expect so much at other mens hands their simplicitie is not such as to yeeld it In deed to my conceiuing the summe of your answer is very like the form of your discipline for neither of theÌ„ hath any proofe possibilitie nor cohereÌ„cie Toprooue the Bishops calling to be different from the Presbyters that yet helped in the word and Sacraments I shew that Bishops ordained ministers which Presbyters by the iudgement and assertion of the Primitiue Church might not doe and that in euery Church there were or might be many Presbyters according to the necessitie of the place but no more then one Bishop in euerie Church did or might succeed the Apostles in their chaires Hence I conclude that Bishops euer since the Apostles times were distinguished from those Presbyters that assisted the Pastour of each place in the word and Sacraments You answere that either Bishops were all one with Presbyters or if there were any difference betwixt them Presbyters then were laie Elders In which words you close not onely a monstrous falsitie but a manifest contrarietie For in effect you say Presbyters were Bishops and no Bishops Presbyters were no Laie men and yet Laie men If Presbyters were Bishops they were no Laie Elders if they were Laie Elders they were no Bishops You must therefore choose the one and refuse the other as false and repugnant to the former Take which you will the choise must be yours what you will answere The Bishops which succeeded the Apostles were the Pastors and ministers of euery parish the Presbyters were the Laie Elders that together with the Bishop gouerned the Church in common Could you make any proofe for laie Elders either in Scriptures or Fathers you had some shew to mistake Presbyters for laie Elders but I haue alreadie perused the weakenesse of your ghesses and withall made iust and fullproofe for the contrarie that the Primitiue Church of Christ had no Presbyters but ministers of the worde and Sacramentes If you bee loth to turne backe to the place heare what the great Affrican Councill saieth wherein sate besides S. Augustine 216. Bishops In the former Councill saieth Aurelius We thought meete that these three degrees tied to a kind of continencie by reason of their consecration I meane Bishops Presbyters and Deacons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as becommeth Bishops Priests of God Leuites seruiters about the diuine SacrameÌ„ts shold be continent in all things All the Bishops answered we like wel that all which stand or serue at the aultar should bee continent Then Presbyters were consecrated and Priests to God and approched to the aultar and ministred the diuine Sacraments The Imperiall lawes say as much Touching the most reuerend Presbyters and Deacons if they be found to giue false euidence in a pecuniarie cause Sufficiat pro verberibus tribus annis separari à sacro ministeria it shall suffice for them in stead of whipping to be three yeeres separated from the sacred ministerie but if in criminall causes they beare false witnesse clero nudatoâ— legitimis poenis sub di praecipimus wee commaund them to bee degraded of their Clergie and subiected to the penalties of the lawe Then Presbyters in the Primitiue Church were both of the Clergie and sacred ministerie as the very lawes of the Romane Empire doe testifie Ierome on whose words you so much depend saieth Hac vt ostenderemus apud veteres eosdem fuisse Presbyteros quos Episcopos All these places prooue that in ancient times Presbyters and Bishops were all one And againe Episcopi Presbyteri Diaconi debent magnoperè prouidere vt cunctum populum cui praesident conuersatione sermone praecedant Quia vehementer ecclesiam Christi destruit meliores esse Laicos quà m Clericos The Bishops Presbyters and Deacons ought greatly to prouide that they excell all the people which are vnder them in conuersation and doctrine because it vehemently destroyeth the Church of Christ to haue the Laie men better then the Clergie men And Augustine Quicunque aut Episcopus aut Presbyter aut Laicus c. Whosoeuer either Bishop Presbyter or Laie man doth declare how eternall life may be gotten hee is worthily called the messenger of God Then if Bishops were no Laie men no more were Presbyters You must therefore send your laie Elders to the New-found land the Christian world neuer heard of any such ecclesiasticall Gouernours before some men in our age began to set that fansie on foote As for Presbyters that were Clergie men and ministers of the word we shew you both by the Scriptures and stories they were many in one Church and yet was there in euery Church and Citie but one of them that succeeded the Apostles as Pastour of y â— place with power to impose handes for the ordaining of Presbyters and Deacons Those successours to the Apostles the Church of Christ euen from the Apostles age hath distinguished from other Presbyters by the two proper markes of episcopall power and function I meane Succession Ordination and called them bishops Thus much is mainlie prooued vnto you by all those Apostolike Churches that had many Presbyters as helpers in the word and neuer but one Bishop that succeeded in the Apostolike chaire At Alexandria this succession began from Marke the Euangelist and
first Bishop of that church after whose death Peter and Paul yet liuing Anianus was elected by the Presbyters there and placed in an higher degree ouer the Presbyters and called a Bishop They be Ieromes owne words that I presse you with Alexandriae à Marco Euangelista Presbyteri semper vnum ex se electum in excelsiori gradu collocatum Episcopum nominabant At Alexandria from Marke the Euangelist the Presbyters alwayes electing one of themselues placing him in an higher degree called him a Bishop The like he saieth was done in the whole world Postquam vnusquisque eos quos baptizauer at suos esse putabat non Christi in toto orbe decretum est vt vnus de Presbyteris electus superponer etur caeteris ad quem omnis ecclesiae cura pertineret After euery man began to take those whom he baptized to be his owne not Christs it was decreed in the whole world that one of the Presbyters should be chosen and set aboue the rest to whom the whole or chiefe care of the Church should pertaine There were many Presbyters in euery Church and out of them one was chosen and set aboue the rest of the Presbyters to represse schismes He doeth not say that euery place had one Presbyter and no moe which was called a Bishop but one chosen out of the Presbyters which were many was placed in euery Church throughout the world not ouer the flocke only but ouer the rest of the Presbyters also which preached baptized as well as he and consequently were ministers of the word and Sacraments and no laie Elders as you dreame Wherefore to tell vs that the Bishops which succeeded the Apostles in their chaires were the Presbyters and ministers of euery parish is a very iest Not onely S. Ieromes wordes but all the Apostolike Churches and auncient stories most plainly conuince the contrary At Antioch euen as at Alexandria there were from the Apostles times a number of Presbyters and labourers in the word yet the succession continued alwayes in one no moe Ignatius the next bishop of Antioch after Euodius who receiued the first charge of that Church from the Apostles hands when he was caried prisoner to Rome writeth vnto the Church of Antioch willing the Laitie to obey the Presbyters and Deacons and adding you Presbyters foede the flocke that is with you till God shewe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who shall be your Ruler or Pastour after my death The like he doeth to the Churches of Trallis Magnesia Tarsus Philippos Philadelphia Smyrna and Ephesus in euery of his epistles to them remembring the Bishops Presbyters and Deacons that guided them and naming Polycarpus Onesimus Demas Vitalis and Polybius as Bishops of Smyrna Ephesus Magnesia Philippos and Trallis apart from the Presbyters of the verie same Churches yea what Church of account was there in Christendome that had not at one and the same time both Bishops and Presbyters Irenaeus was Presbyter vnder Pothymus Bishop of Lions At Antioch was Geminus vnder Zebenus and Malchion vnder Paulus Samosatenus and Diodorus Heliodorus Theodorus Isaac Mochinus and infinite others vnder the Bishops of that See So at Alexandria were Pantenus Clemens and Origen Presbyters vnder Serapion Asclepiades and Demetrius Bishops And so Dionysius vnder Heraclas and Pierius vnder Theonas And vnder the foresayd Dionysius when hee was Bishop of Alexandria were Maximus Dioscorus Demetrius Lucius Faustinus and Aquila Presbyters Tertullian Cyprian and Cecilâ—us were Presbyters in the Church of Carthage Saint Augustine was a Presbyter vnder Valerius Bishop of Hippo and vnder Augustine was Eradius that succeeded him and other moe Chrysostome was first Presbyter vnder Flauianus Bishop of Antioch and after made Bishop of Constantinople Of Vigilantius a Presbyter in Spaine Ierome saieth Imaruell the Bishop in whose charge or Diocesse he is reported to be a Presbyter doeth not breake that vnprofitable vessell with the Apostolike rod euen with an iron rod. Of Ierome S. Austen saieth Although by the names of honor which now haue preuailed in the vse of the church a Bishops place be greater then a Presbyters yet in many pointes Augustine is lesse then Ierome The Presbyteries of Caesarea Edissa Massilia Vienna Millan of infinite other churches might be likewise proued but why should I stand so long in a case as cleare as sunne-shine to those that haue any tast of learning or vse of reading They can light on no ancient Councill nor story of the Church but they shall find the Clergie of each Citie distinct from the Bishop subiect vnto the Bishop Yea no Presbyter might depart from the Church where he was ordained without the consent of his Bishop nor be receiued in another Church by the Bishop there without the liking licence of the Bishop whose Presbyter he was first as appeareth by the Councils of Nice can 15. 16. of Antioch ca. 3. of Chalcedon ca. 8. of Africa ca. 55. neither might any man be made a Bishop by the Canons except hee were first a Presbyter and so did rise by euery degree vnto the heigth of the Bishops calling All which a thousand other rules and Canons doe exquisitely prooue that euery Citie had besides their Bishop and vnder their Bishop as well Presbyters as other Clergie men so without all contradiction Presbyters were distinct froÌ„ Bishops a degree beneath Bishops wheresoeuer they be reckoned in order together as Deacons Presbyters Bishops But aunciently as Ierome saieth Presbyters and Bishops were all one Those names did not differ at first by reason the Episcopall power and honour was in the Apostles and Euangelists but when those succeeded that were neither Apostles nor Euangelists then began they to be called Bishops Eosdem olim vocabant Episcopos Presbyteros â—os autem qui nunc vocantur Episcopi nominabant Apostolos At the first faieth Theodorete they called the same men both Bishops and Presbyters and those that are now called Bishops they named Apostles In proces of time they left the name of Apostle to those y t were in deed Apostles they called them Bishops whom before they termed Apostles And so Ambrose Apostoli sunt Episcopi Post Episcopum plus esse intelligitur qui prophetare dicitur qui ordo nunc potest esse Presbyterij The Apostles are now the Bishops After the Bishop he is greatest that is said to prophesie which now may bee the order of Presbyters Ierome commenting vpon these words of Dauid Thy children shalbe in stead of thy fathers saieth The Apostles O Church were thy fathers because they begate thee and nowe for that they bee departed this world thou hast in their stead children which are the Bishops created by thy selfe for they are now thy fathers