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A54199 Quakerism, a new nick-name for old Christianity being an answer to a book entituled Quakerism no Christianity, subscribed by J. Faldo : in which the rise, doctrine and practice of the abused Quakers are truly, briefly and fully declared and vindicated from the false charges ... made by that adversary with a key opening the true meaning of some of their doctrine ... / by one of them and a sufferer with them in all their sufferings, William Penn. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1672 (1672) Wing P1347; ESTC R30094 154,759 271

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and none such had ever yet come to my hand But upon my sober Perusal of the Matter I found this to be the Upshot That the Quakers Deny them to be the Word of God therefore they deny them altogether Whence I take good Heart to show his Ignorance or great Dishonesty § 3. I will allow to him without going any farther that the People called Quakers do deny the Scriptures to be the Word of God and therefore shall take for granted what he quotes out of J. N. F. Howgil J. Parnel and W. Smith But that we do consequently Deny the Scriptures we shall oppose we hope to the Death § 4. I do declare to the whole World that We believe the Scriptures to contain a Declaration of the Mind and Will of God in and to those Ages in which they were written being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the Hearts of holy Men of God That they ought also to be Believed Read and Fulfill'd in our Day being Useful for Reproof and Instruction that the Man of God may be perfect And that they have been and are Instrumental to great Good upon the Spirits of People by the secret Power of God which often strikes and presseth home to the very Conscience the weighty Truths declar'd therein yet We do Deny them to be the Word of God ascribing that alone to Christ himself and that not without Scripture and Reason § 5. First It is granted on all hands that Christ is expresly called in Scripture the Word of God but no where that the Scriptures are so styled Secondly That though I should allow it to be a Figurative Expression and therefore says our Adversary Improper yet because a Word among Men conveyes the Mind of one unto another and that Christ is the great Word of God that in all Ages hath convey'd or spoken the Mind of God unto Mankind and so the Author of all good Words he only may by way of Right and Excellency be so styl'd of Us. Thirdly I shall easily grant to him that one Word may stand representative of many and that the Ten Words were not Ten Numerical Words because each Word contained many yet this I will say that Word in Scripture is taken for Commandment and they have an equivalent Signification as in Deuteronomy may be seen And since that was the Import of the Ten Words to wit Ten Commandments each Word has its own Commandment Therefore it is no more against us to allow those Ten Words to be more then Ten Words then Ten Commandments to have more then Ten Words And whatever our Adversaries may say or think of us We therefore Decline to call the Scriptures the Word of God because we believe It to be a Title only due to that Living Quickning Word by which God vouchsafes to disclose his Mind and Will unto Man-kind Christ the Way to the Father § 6. But sayes our Adversary to this Argument The Word was God therefore the Scriptures cannot be the Word because they are not God Let me tell you that the Scripture may be the Word and Christ the Word also and yet though Christ be the Word of God the Scriptures the Word may be quite another thing Certain I am this is quite another thing then good Doctrine How can the Scriptures be the Word of God and Christ the Word of God too Are there two Distinct Words of God the one quite another thing from the other O shameful Arguing If he had said Christ is the Word of God and the Scriptures a Word of God he would have a little better hit the Mark But to assert Two General Comprehensive Words of God sounds Harsh and Inconsistent I would fain know in Case we should admit this absurd Assertion how he would distinguish between these Two General Comprehensive Words For my part I think it as good Sense to call a King's Letters King or an Ambassador's Credential's Ambassador O no says our Adversary you Mistake Christ is called a Light a Rock a Lyon will it thence follow that there are no other Lights Rocks or Lyons I Answer There is no other Light Rock or Lyon then Christ with respect to That for which He is so call'd Neither is there any other Word then Christ with respect to that for which he is so styl'd to wit God's Living Powerful Word And this decides the Controversie and plainly adjudges us the Matter against the utmost Force of our Adversary to the Contrary For if he is therefore a Light because he only can and doth Discover the Unfruitful Works of Darkness a Rock because whoever build on Him is Safe and a Lyon because the King of all whose Utterings are able to Terrifie all Destruction from his Walks but what he brings upon his Adversaries and therefore there is not another Light to inlighten Man's Soul or Rock for Christ's Church to be built on neither any other Lyon to secure them from the Devourer consequently because he is the Living Spiritual Powerful Word of God there is not another that 's The Word of God § 7. But he further says That the Word of God is so exprest in Scripture as it must needs be understood not of Christ but the Scriptures He that regardeth not the Word of the Lord. He that feared the Word of the Lord Stand thou still a while that I may shew thee the Word of God the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God And the Cares of the World choak the Word and it becometh Unfruitful Mark 4. 19. which saith he cannot be understood of Christ or God and that a little Skill in the Original would free us from these Mistakes and to that Purpose To which I answer that the Word of the Lord mention'd in Exodus and Samuel are properly to be understood of the Living Spiritual Word of God which spoke to the People through those Servants of the Lord For who Received or Rejected the Mind of that Word exprest in many Words received the Word and it had a place in their Hearts or else rejected it and it had no place in them This makes nothing against us in the least For that Passage in the Ephesians Beza whom he quotes I suppose as embracing his Judgment has determin'd the Matter for he has it the Spiritual Sword Then let us read the Words thus The Spiritual Sword is the Word of God or The Word of God is the Spiritual Sword For Christ is as truly a Sword an Ax a Fire which the Word of God is call'd as a Lyon a Rock a Door And for the last Passage out of Mark which seems to carry most of Weight in it for our Adversary it may rightly be understood of that Truth which Christ the Word livingly sows in the Hearts of Men Women the Word of Advice Reproof Instruction and the like But of the Scriptures it cannot be understood as neither can any of the other places For first those
out of that Sense in which they were given forth and to an other End then that for which they were given forth which proves to us that the Sense and not the Words shows the End of their being so given forth The Scriptures are a Sealed Book to all but those who know them by the same Hand which Originally gave them So that however Common they may be in the World they are Strangers to them that understand them not And though Old respecting the Time when they were revealed to the Saints yet New to every Age so that we assert not a Revelation of New Things but renewed Revelation of those Things God made former Ages Witnesses of otherwise Men are no more benefited by them And to be benefited they must be made ours by the Spirit which made them the Holy Ancients § 7. In short No Man can understand Spiritual Things but the Spiritually Discerning None can so be without the Inspiration of the Almighty or Spirit of God This is Scripture Now the Author of those Queries and J. Faldo also Denying Inspiration they consequently deny themselves to be Spiritually Discerning and for Men not Spiritual to Judge of Religious and Spiritual Matters much less to Write of them and bid their Writings go and throw down Self-Will and exalt the Truth is Vain and Idolatrous For the Scriptures themselves consider'd meerly as such are unable much less Writings founded on the Authority of Self Will for it is the alone Priviledge of God's Power and Spirit and no Writing whatever distinct from it can perform that Great and Mighty Work in Man § 8. And for Equaling our Writings with the Scriptures because we assert Inspiration and that what we have received and do declare of the Things of God is from the Revelation of his Spirit in our Hearts it is a Foolish Inference Truth was and is Truth all the World over and there was and is but One Way to come to it in all Ages I mean Inspiration The Scriptures are True and our Writings are True but will it therefore follow that we bring them upon a Vie Is this your Disputant But to determine this Case He should first have prov'd if he could what Power God gave to the Ancients and what to Us. How much of his Spirit to those Ages and what to This or else he loseth himself If he can Experimentally tell what were their Discoveries and Experiences and what are Ours he would be a Proper Judge But to think to run us down by Exalting them or to lessen what we are by Increasing their Praise is an old Artifice of the Devil and Sober Men will be more True to Themselves and Just to the Matter then so to censure us Cannot one Man be another Man's Brother and not the Elder Brother Doth it follow that because God has made what we know our own by his Holy Inspirations and Operations that therefore we put our selves upon the Comparison with the Ancients If true Christians fill up or add to Christ's Sufferings yet behind why should their Writings be shuffled out of all Relation to the Scriptures There may be a Relation where there is not an Equality much less a Preference and that we do assert against all Opposers § 9. But now let us see what he says of our setting the Scriptures beneath our own Writings and I will take his own Way to do it The Characters of the Scriptures given by the Quakers as says J. Faldo Characters of their own Teachers Writings and Sayings given by them Feeding Death with Death The Letter which Killeth Declar. from the Minist of the Word p. 7. The Voice of the Son of God was utter'd forth by him by which the Dead was rais'd F. H. Life of E. B. p. 20. Seeking the Living among the Dead J. Parn. Shield His Words Ministred Grace to the Hearers Fox jun. Life E. B. A Mistake for he dy'd before E. B. Reconciliation Death is a State without the Living Experimental Knowledg of God and his Work in the Heart And that State will talk of the Fame of Wisdom as saith the Scripture and that from the Scripture that is from or in the words of Scripture being Ignorant of the true Sense of the Scripture thinking there to have Life which Literal Knowledg it feeds upon and contents it self with where Nations have lain Apostatized from the Life of God and Power of Godliness The Letter Killeth that is the Literal Knowledge or rather their Imaginations from the Letter not being Divinely Inspir'd so as to understand it by which Men buoy and lift up themselves as Christians in the World and yet are Strangers to the inward sensible Work of God And it does Kill the Soul with respect to that true Life the Spirit and Power of God begets in all right Christians through whom the Voice of the Son of God has does and will utter it self to the Ends of the Earth for the Raising the Dead in Trespasses and Sins as that worthy Servant of God did which is now with his Lord. This disreputes not the Scriptures but those who make a wrong Use of them nor is there any Comparison betwixt Reading what God's Spirit requires immediate Hearing his Voice and being sensible of his present living Touches upon the Soul Writings are but holy Things at second hand a Living Ministry is the very Life Power and Spirit present and more immediate In short the Testimony of F. H. we prefer not before the Testimony Luke gives of holy Stephen We prefer the Scriptures before all Writings but before God's immediate Power we dare not do Paper Ink and Writing the same pag. 7. A Shield of the Truth Title J. P's Book Reconcil What 's this to the purpose We say that the Scriptures or the Writings not the Things written of mark that are Paper Ink and Writing which was spoken abstractively and upon a Comparison of them with the Word of God that was with God and was and is God over all blessed for ever Doth any Man think that we believe greater things of J. Parnel's Book By no means He call'd not his Book consisting of so much Writing Ink and Paper a Shield of Truth but that of which it treated was the Truth and with respect to the Controversial part of it as it was writ in Defence of the Truth it might be tearm'd a Shield in which sense the Scriptures by him urged have the upper-hand of his Writing by whose greater Authority with Men he abets and maintains the Doctrine contended for Shews you I suppose the Light your own Faces which the Scriptures cannot do Scorned Quak. accounts p. 20. A Spiritual Glass opened Smith ' s Cat. c. Morn Watch. Reconcil This can be no way hard to reconcile For when we say the Scriptures cannot show Men at all Times and in all States their Conditions but the Secret In-shining Light of God alone we are not so unworthy as to intend that any Book of
the Christ or the Body of Christ onely I leave with Christ Scripture and Reason to determine Certain I am that this Principle must center in that senseless Dream of J. Reeve and L. Muggleton as well as that it makes a perfect Difference betwixt Him that was before Abraham and Him that said so Him that told his Disciples I will not leave you comfortless and Him that said I will come to you again Nay why should Christ say to his Disciples it was expedient he should go away since certainly if some more Excellent and Profitable Appearance of himself had not been to succeed at least as to them it had been far more Expedient he should in that Manner have remained amongst them And why did the Apostle speak of no more knowing Christ after the Flesh and of his being revealed in him and in the Saints as their Hope of Glory and that he was the Quickning Spirit and Lord from Heaven If that Body was the Intire Christ not rather the Body prepared for that Divine Power Wisdom and Righteousness to transact in and appear by and to the Sons of Men which with respect to that great Manifestation was denominated Christ or Anointed shall we dare think that he who so spoak and of whom the Apostle so testified was not the true Christ which to be sure was before that Visible Body God forbid Let that Sin lie at J. Faldo's Door § 2. But he offers to us Scripture And it was reveal'd to him Simeon by the Holy Ghost that he should not see Death before he had seen the Lord's Christ And he came by the Spirit into the Temple and when the Parents brought in the Child Jesus then took he him up in his Armes and said Lord now lettest thou thy Servant depart in Peace for mine Eyes have seen thy Salvation a Light to lighton the Gentiles c. and it is and will be granted that Simeon saw the Lord 's Christ But I hope J. Faldo will not deny unto that good Man who waited for Israel's Consolation that he had as well a Spiritual as Natural an Inward as Outward Sight of Christ For can he think that the Word which took Flesh was nothing of that Saviour and that the True Light which then appeared is to be excluded any Share therein Will J. Faldo or any Man that owns Scripture dare to affirm there was not something belonging to the True and Compleat Christ beyond what his outward Eyes could possibly see Certainly this Allegation from Luk 2. 26. will never prove the Body of Jesus which the Father prepared for him to be the Whole Intire Christ Saviour Light Salvation and Glory of Israel unless Christ under all these Considerations consisted or was made up of the more Outward Body that only was obvious to the Outward Eyes which to affirm were both to deny his Divinity and to conclude Simeon void of any Spiritual Sight or Intendment in these Words of the Lord 's Christ as a Light enlightning the Gentiles and God's Salvation to the Ends of the Earth Though still be it understood that we confess that Child as seen and understood by Simeon with respect to that great End of his Appearance to be the Lord 's Christ Nay J. Faldo himself sayes as much p. 70. otherwise there would be an exalting the Body above the Divinity nay an utter Exclusion of the Divinity with respect to the True Christ Let none then be so Ungodly and Unjust to us as to infer we deny the Lord 's Christ because we rather chuse to say the Body of Christ then Christ for sayes he Christ is God manifest in the Flesh see J. F. p. 72 77. § 3. And lest any should think that therein I contradict the inspired Saying of that Just Man when he said Mine Eyes have beheld thy Salvation the Words import no more then this Mine Eyes have beholden the Manifestation and Breaking forth of thy Seed and Heir who is come to visit the World and bruise the Serpent's Head Mine Eyes have seen him by whom thy Salvation shall be declared through whom thou wilt put forth thine Arm and work mightily for the Salvation of Man And this his other Scriptures prove at large for me the most Considerable of which I take to be this The God of our Fathers raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hanged on a Tree Him hath God exalted with his right Hand to be a Prince and a Saviour for to give Repentance to Israel and Forgiveness of Sin Act. 5. 30 31. which can no more be understood expresly stricktly and intirely so then it would be reason able for a Man to say that when Samuel died the Soul and Body which was call'd Samuel died and not rather the Body of him who was called Samuel And this is the Ground and Reason why the Socinians Muggletonians and several Anabaptists hold the Mortality of the Soul because otherwise those Words which speak of the Death of Christ could not be taken properly as they take and defend them I say then and that with Force of Reason and which at this time may be more to the Conviction of some the Suffrage of our malignant Adversary J. Faldo himself however contradicting to his fore-mentioned Sense the Words are thus to be understood The God of our Fathers who raised up the Body of Jesus from the Dead which ye slew and hung upon a Tree Him whose Body you so cruelly used hath God exalted with his right Hand to be a Prince and a Saviour for to give Repentance to Israel and Forgiveness of Sin To put this out of Doubt hear J. Faldo his own self Let not these Blasphemers of the Lord of Life and Glory delude People with a Fancy as if we believe and preach the FLESH AND BLOOD OF CHRIST TO BE CHRIST SEPARATED FROM HIS SOUL OF THE NATURE OF MAN's SOUL but undefiled OR THAT WE TAKE HIS MAN's NATURE TO BE CHRIST SEPARATED FROM HIS ETERNAL AND DIVINE NATURE One would think I had spent my Time in vain when I set about to prove that the Divine Light Life Power Wisdom and Righteousness were not unconcerned in the true Christ and consequently that the Body which only died was not the Entire Jesus or Saviour since our Adversary calls us Blasphemers and Deluders and I know not for what except it be for Teaching that Doctrine he recommends in the same Paragraph wherein he calls us those hateful Names § 4. But that his great Inconsistency with himself may be further manifest hear him again If Men be so blind as not to see the Error of Disowning Jesus of Nazareth the Son of Mary who was hanged on a Tree put into the Sepulchre of Joseph of Arimathia to be yet alive and the Christ of God by all these Scriptures the most considerable whereof are answerd it is a Blindness wherewith never any before the Quakers who professed the Scriptures to be a true Testimony were smitten