Hallens Psalt Bonauent and yet to the Turkes they will deny this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ricold cont sect Mahum p. 122. 10. that manner that I set downe and the doctrine published touching her merits and mediation out of Dodechin Bozius Galatine and others whereby she is equalled with Christ and the monstrous impieties about friar Francis out of Bencius and Tursellin Iesuites the which stuffe and infinite other of the like nature is it we say giues example to the vulgar and which we thinke so odious that the Iesuite durst neither set it downe nor mention it in his booke least the world should see and abhorre it but onely occupying himselfe in defending the lawfulnesse of praying to the Virgin Mary as if I had obiected no more but that so he leaues in a manner euery thing vnanswered and touches not those fouler imputations that lie against him Neuertheles come we to that he sayes First he denies not but it were a grieuous accusation if it were true that in the Church of Rome the Saints are serued with the same seruice they giue to Christ the B. virgin Mary made an intercessour for sinne as if Christ were not the sole Mediatour and therefore he answers that in confuting M. Wottons vntruths he hath shewed that the making of Saints our intercessours hinders not Christ to be sole Mediatour a Pag. 14. of his Reply Because we do not hold Saints to be mediators of redemption but of intercession onely Meaning the ordinary distinction that is b Alexan. part 4. q. 92. in 1. art 4. Bellar. de Sancto beatit p. 718. 732. Grego à Valent tom 3 p. 1273. E. Rhem. on 1. Tim. 2.5 among them that Christ onely by nature being God and man and by office and merits reconciling God to man and needing no other to procure him grace with his Father is the first author of all the good we receiue from God but so that the Saints neuertheles pray for vs and as persons nearer God and more familiar with him then we commend our cause to him and so are mediators of intercession Whereto I reply two things First that more then this is ascribed to Saints in the formes that I alledge First God is inuocated by their merits and for them desired to giue eternall life yea the Mas booke hath a prayer c Breular Sarisbu fest S. Tho. Cantuar. that God by the blood of Tho. Becket would saue vs and bring vs to heauen When all effusion of blood and merit of worke whereby eternall life is obtained belongs to Redemption as well as to intercession and to no intercession but onely to Christs Next the holy Virgin is called our Life our Hope our Aduocate the mother of Grace our Sauiour our Redeemer Viega d Comment in apocal 12. pag. 584. ex Arnold Carnot sayes she is set aboue euery creature that whosoeuer bowes the knee to Christ should make supplication to his Mother also And I am of mind saith he alledging the words of another that the glory of the Sonne is not so much common with the glory of the Mother as it is the same and God hath in a sort giuen his mercy to his Mother and Spouse that reignes and so the B. Virgin hath the kingdome of God diuided betweene God and her These words import more then intercession Thirdly they say of her e These speeches are alledged in the praeface of the way that with her Sonne she disposes of rights With her Sonne she redeemed the world Her death was for the redemption of the world For her loue God made the world She is aboue Christ to command They are saued by her that cannot by Christ Francis the Friar is made equall to Christ All this is shewed at large in their words whereto the Iesuite replies nothing and it is * Macte Hyacinthe animo quicquid petiueris vnquam Me tribuente feres caelica virgo canit These verses are written in a medall of that sort that are drawne in papers and are common among Recusāts where Hyacinthus a Saint of Poland is portraied praying on his knees to the Virgin Mary and receiuing the answer from her that is contained in these two verses more then can be contained in simple intercession abstracting from redemption 2 If our aduersaries to these things would reply that they are the foolish deuotion of priuate persons which they maintaine not it were an end and we would charge them no longer herewith but they neither can nor will They cannot for the obiections are the practise of the whole Church set foorth in their publike Seruice bookes and open writings of the Iesuites and our ancestors in former times were trained vp in this deuotion Neither will they do it For first this Iesuite smoothes it vp and falls a distinguishing to defend it in generall which in particular for shame he durst not looke in the face Next all the bookes of their Church are full of these things f Printed at Venice Paris and Lipsia and now lately at Paris by Nicol. du Fosse ad insigne vasis aurei See Chemnit exam p. 595. inde Tilen syn tagm tom 2. p. 565. n. 24. Cassand cōsult pag. 156. and among other practises they haue transformed the whole Psalter of Dauid to the inuocation of Mary where euery thing that Dauid attributes to God is ascribed to her by putting his name out and hers in the roome In the end whereof all the other ordinary hymnes and readings of the Church are turned to her likewise And this booke was publikely vsed throughout the Church of Rome and beare this inscription The Psalter of the B. Virgin compiled by the Seraphicall Doctor S. Bonau the B. of Alba and Cardinall Priest of the Church of Rome 3 Secondly I answer that the mediation of intercession whereby our prayers are offered vp to God belongs to Christ alone And therefore the Church of Rome calling vpon Saints to pray for them and to commend their praiers to God if it did no more robs Iesus Christ of his office The antecedent that it belongs to Christ alone to make intercession offer our prayers to God is prooued for the Scripture sayes g Heb. 7.24 13.15 Let vs BY HIM offer the Sacrifice of praise ALWAIES to God Who hath an euerlasting Priesthood and therefore is able perfitly to saue them that come to God by him seeing he euer liues to make intercession for them h 1. Ioh. 2.1 If any man sin we haue an Aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust and he is the propitiation for our sinnes in which words we see that all authority and power of intercession is immediately attributed to him that is the High Prist of the Church and that intercession is founded vpon the Priesthood and those merites that he cannot be intercessour to mediate betweene God and vs in any sort that is not such a priest Againe touching the offering
shew but by the circumstance of the matter the conceit of him that vses them the doctrine of their church and I know not what but also denies them to be so much as scandalous to the ignorant people that know none of these things And he addes that there is none ordinarily among them so simple but they know the right meaning This latter is a grosse vntruth For if I should report what I haue heard and seene and what all the world knowes touching the opinion that the vulgar sort of Papists haue of the Saints he would but fall a railing and face me out of my owne knowledge though it be true that of God and the Church and his office they haue no knowledge but in all things talke of the Saints Who is such a stranger in that countrey that knowes not the opinion that is of our Ladie S. Anthonie S. Loy S. Peter to whom they pray at all assayes that can say neuer a word of Iesus Christ or if they can yet thinke he stands at their deuotion specially his mothers no lesse then many of themselues stand at the deuotion of the Priest Espenceus n 2. Tim. Digr 17. pag 128. sayes that now adayes so well are they taught old folke there be that trusts in Saints and ascribe no lesse to them then to God himselfe and thinke it an easier thing to intreate one of them then him And he wishes he might be found a liar and that there were no such So that we see the Reply excuses that which his Masters in Israel cannot denie But what is it that these men will not excuse What hope is there of any truth or modestie from them that will excuse these things We had sometime a merrie ieast of a silly Priest that vsed to say his prayers thus Pater noster Aue Maria that is for thee S. Peter Pater noster Aue Maria that is for thee S. Barbarie Pater noster Aue Maria that is for thee S. Rook and so forward till he had told euery Saint his prayer This mans deuotion is highly commended by o Enchirid. de orat c. 18. n. 32. pag. 307. Nauarre who being himselfe old enough to haue had more wit for he sayes he was 85 yeares old when he vsed it p Miscel de orat pag. 68. made this his order of prayer * A strange kind of deuotion but permitted to none till he came to the yeares of dotage with his minde fixed vpon the virgin Marie to say ten Pater nosters and an Aue and at the end of the first ten the virgin Marie and all Angels Archangels Principalities and Thrones Cherubins and Seraphins blesse me ten thousand times at the end of the second ten the glorious virgin Marie Adam and Eue Elias and Enoch all Patriarkes Prophets and Innocents blesse me twentie thousand times At the third ten The glorious Virgin Peter and Paul and all the Apostles Iohn and all the Euangelists Stephen and all our Lords Disciples Sebastian and all Martyrs blesse me thirtie thousand times At the fourth ten All holy Confessors Syluester Gregorie Ambrose Austine Hierome Isodore Martin Nicolas Bennet Bernard Dominicke Francis and all Bishops Doctors Monkes Heremits Virgins Widowes and Married blesse me fortie thousand times At the last ten thus The glorious Virgin and Anne her mother both the Maries her sisters Magdalen Martha Marcella and all her friends and seruants Agnes Cicelia Agathie Lucie Catharine and all other blesse me fiftie thousand times What man is he that would not reioyce and count it his chiefest happinesse that he is come out from among these men where idolatrie hath besotted them not onely to blasphemie and atheisme but to very dotage and ridiculousnesse that with their prayers and deuotions they beginne to resemble the common picture of the Apes vntrussing the pedlers packe and forgetting the sweete mediation of him that q Heb. 2.17 in all things became like vs for this very purpose that he might be mercifull and a faithfull high Priest in all things concerning God and that he might make reconciliation for the sinnes of the people do thus renounce him and flie to the thousands and ten thousands of those who if they saw this idolatrie toward them would hate and detest it and all that speake for it Pag. 44. A. D. If this answer will not stoppe M. Whites mouth but that he will continue in his exclamation that it is impossible to excuse this kinde of praying from formall idolatrie wherein the same titles are giuen to the Saints and the same things by the same merits asked of them that appertaine to Christ alone I aske him how he will excuse Saint Augustine from formall idolatrie * Aug. serm 18. de Sanctis who in his second Sermon of the Annunciation hath these formall words The Mother of our kinde brought punishment into the world the Mother of our Lord brought health or saluation into the world Eue was auctrix of death Marie is auctrix of merit Eue did hurt by killing Marie did helpe by quickening c. Afterward turning his speech to the blessed Virgin her selfe he saith O blessed Marie who is able to render vnto thee due thankes and prayses who by thy singular assent hast succoured the world that was lost And againe Admâ—t saith he our prayers into the sacrarie of thy hearing and bring backe vnto vs the Preseruatiue of reconciliation And yet more Receiue saith he that which we offer grant that which we aske excuse that which we feare because thou art the * These words in outward sound seeme harsh yet we are not to doubt but Saint Augustine had a pious meaning in them as that she was the only hope vnder Christ or some such like which pious meaning being admitted in S. Augustines words why may it not also be admitted in the words of our prayers which to Protestants seeme harsh onely hope of sinners By thee wee hope for pardon of our sinnes and in thee O most blessed is the expectation of our rewards Holy Marie succour the miserable helpe the faint-hearted c. If M. White can with a pious explication excuse these words of Saint Augustine from formall idolatrie superstition and scandall then he must not maruell if our prayers also be in like manner excused But if he will for these words condemne Saint Augustine wee must not maruell if hee also condemne vs yet our comfort will be that as his condemnation cannot discredite Saint Augustine so neither shall it be able in the iudgement of discreet men to discredit vs. 7 These are r See Kemnit exam concil pag. 646. edit Frankf 1609. The Papists themselues are vncertaine who was the author of the Sermon wherein they are Erasm and the Diuines of Louan in their editions of Austin Rhem annot in Act. 1.14 Baron notat in Martyrolog Mart. 25. It is certaine that neither Austin nor Fulgentius was author because in their time
darkenesse for there cannot lightly be more falshood and compiled fraud together in so small a compasse then is in these bookes but whereas he sayes in the margent that Walsingham was once an earnest Protestant and is now become a good Catholike I aduise him not to be too confident for he knowes that some hauing upon Walsinghams groundes fallen to Papistry yet haue not long continued so but upon a new search haue with comfort and peace returned backe againe whence they went and therefore the surest way were to follow the order of the Pontificall and coniure him the which way of coniuring such as are reconciled to the Church of Rome I say againe is prescribed in a a Pontifical Roman part tit ordo ad reconciliand pag. â—06 of the old print solemne Booke containing the forme of many ceremonies vsed therein that it is the desperatest and basest shift that can be thus to deny such an order specially the booke containing and prescribing it being lately printed againe at Rome And if the said Walsingham turned Papist as the Iesuit reports by obseruing the sinceritie of Catholikes and the grosse lying that he found in Protestant writers I pittie his case that would refuse his religion upon supposall of that which is not so for to speake of that which I have searched into my selfe the places obiected to Bishop Iewell a man of incomparable learning and pietie whose name is sufficient to beare downe all that speake against him I finde that as the things taxed in him will be iustified so himselfe in his life time in the second edition of his defence cleared the most of them against Stapleton Harding and the rest whose obiections they are that Walsingham hath set downe dissembling the answer that the Bishop himselfe made vnto them and if I be not deceived the pretended Walsingham writ not that booke who being as he saith himselfe but a Deacon and vnskilfull at those times in the controuersies could not obiect answer meditate and conceiue the things contained in that Booke the stile and matter thereof bewrayes another author and our aduersaries were neuer yet so curious but they could be content with any forgerie and fopperie to aduance their cause and with policie to promote their religion which Gods blessed truth that needes no mans lie would abhorre to do 2 And whereas the Iesuit sayes there is ordinarily among them the spirit of meekenesse and forbearance more then can be expected among Protestants and if any Papist haue threatned and attempted vnfit things our Church doctrine doth disallow it would this were true For I haue shewed that their Church and doctrine haue allowed taught and defended the murder of kings and the absoluing of their subjects from obedience their bookes also are full of vile and inhumane speeches against our state the Iesuits themselues ioyned with the rest in the treason of Gunpowder their bookes are written not with Inke but vineger In Queene Maries time they shewed such meekenesse as the Turke vses to do at the sacking of a towne the barbarous rage of the Cleargie in those daies against the poore seruants of Iesus Christ was such that it cannot be forgotten the common sort of Recusants I haue seene so inflamed with furie that all the water in Trent would not quench it if occasion wanted not I saw Hunt a Seminarie Priest behaue himselfe so outragiously at the barre at Lancaster where he was arraigned for an assault made vpon the way upon certaine officers that were carrying a prisoner whereof he shot * G. Trauis one into the thigh with a pistoll that Sir Thomas Hesckith the Queenes attorney at that time giuing euidence against him called to haue him set farther off him and some companie stand betweene for doing him mischiefe his outrage in countenance and words were such The Bull of Pius against good Queene Elizabeth the writings of Cardinall Pool against the state in king Henries time the diuelish behauiour of the Popes clawbackes and vassals in their writings this day toward his Maiestie remember Pruritanus with his Quaere quare remember b M. Wrightintons cattell at one time and M. Bretters at another a litle before the Queenes death the poore dumb beasts pitifullie butchered in Lancashire and the Spanish inuasion with the Zeale and fury wherewith the chiefest of your side aduanced it remember finally the Inquisition and the order of the execution and talke no more of meekenesse and forbearance all which is not obiected in malice either to incense them or make them odious but onely by laying open their sinne to draw them to repentance and their followers to obedience when this their cariage hath so shaken the land disinabled the state that we cannot thinke of it but many a time and often for feare of the euent and iealousie of his Maiestie and his children with weeping teares nor speake of them but as Iacob did of his children c Gen. 49.5 Simeon and Leui brethren in evill the instruments of crueltie are in their habitation let not my soule come into their Councell if we could preuaile that way we would intreate them that are their acquaintance the band of nature and humanitie should coniure them religion by her sacred maiestie should beseech them our common Baptisme the Seale of our Christian profession should importune them their dearest countrey like Coriolanus mother should be sent out vnto them with breasts displaied and weeping teares and her haire hanging about her shoulders to reconcile them but nothing can do it no intreaty no forbearance no benefits Rome hath alienated and imbruted them and how to shew them loue we know not but must say as the Romane Lady did to her sonne in armes against his countrey d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plutarch Coriol We cannot pray both for our owne safety and thy health but as our enemies would pray against vs for either the countrey must perish or else you must be taken out of it CHAP. XII Touching the ignorance that Papistry hath bred among people Their barbarous manner of praying auouched Of Iohn the Almoner a legend The manner how a certaine Priest baptized 2. The replies zeale for recusants of the better sort 3. A Lanc. Gentleman alledged by the reply A note of a french Knight 4. The successe of preaching in Lanc. A. D. The sixt marke saith M. White is that prodigious ignorance whereunto they fall who liue in papistry Pag. 35. for proofe whereof he setteth downe certaine examples which he saith he hath obserued from the common people to wit these insuing Creezum zuum patrum onitentem c. Little Creed c White pater noster c. After which hauing two other examples of like odde stuffe he further saith Their prayers and traditions of this sort are infinite and the ceremonies they vse in all their actions are nothing inferiour to the Gentiles in number and strangenes which saith he any man may easily obserue that conuerseth with
against sauing faith A Fundamentall point therefore is that which belongs to the substance of faith and is so reuealed and so necessary that there can be no saluation without the knowledge and explicit faith thereof of which nature are the things contained in the articles of our faith a point not Fundamentall is that which directly belongs not to the way of Saluation neither doth error or ignorance therein make void or destoy that which is Fundamentall Forsomuch as such a point is reuealed but for the manifestation of the other and is beleeued but in order to the other as that Abraham had so many children Paul had a cloke The dead pray for the liuing c wherein it may fall out that we may erre or be ignorant and yet the faith not preiudiced 2 I know none of our Aduersaries that deny this distinction but vse and explicate it as well as we though none such as this Iesuite is be growne so peruerse and malepart that they will endure nothing that we say be it neuer so true b 22. q. 2. art 5. DicenduÌ„ quod fidei obiectum per se est id per quod homo beatus efficitur Per accidens auteÌ„ aut secundario se habeâ—t ad obiectum virtutis omnia quae in sacra Scriptura continentur sicut quod AbrahaÌ„ habuit duos filios c. Thomas hauing deuided the obiect of faith into that which is so by it selfe and that which is by accident and secondarily defines the first to be that whereby a man is made blessed and saued the latter that which is reuealed whatsoeuer it be as that Abraham had two sonnes and Dauid was the sonne of Iesse c Dialog 1. part l. 2. c. 2. pag. 6. Occham sets downe three differences of verities to be beleeued Some touching God and Christ whereon principally depends our Saluation as that there is one God and three persons that Christ is God and man that he suffered and died and rose againe c. Some whereon our Saluation depends not so principally which though we beleeue yet do they not * Non directè sed indirecte quod ammodo ad salutem humani generis pertinere noscuntur so directly belong to our Saluation as many things written of Pharaoh c Of the third sort such as are not reuealed but either agree with that which is reuealed or follow manifestly of it And d Vbi sup c. 11. pag. 9. Sunt quidam Moderni dicentes quod multae assertiones sunt quae in rei veritate aduersantur diuinae Scripturae quae tamen ab Ecclesia minimè sunt damnandae nec sint inter haereses numerandae he reports it to haue bene an opinion in the Church in his time that many assertions which in truth of the matter were against the Scripture yet were not condemned by the Church nor counted heresie Espencaeus e Espencae in 2 Tim digress 17. p 119. discoursing of things to be knowne and beleeued sayes The infolded faith of simple people will serue well enough in such things as are the obiect of faith onely BY ACCIDENT and in subtile considerations that arise about the Scripture but in those things which OF THEMSELVES are the obiect of faith whereby men are led to happines they need an vnfolded faith the Colliars faith will do no good f Mag 3. d. 23. ibi Scholast coÌ„muniter Tho. Bonau DuraÌ„d Ricard Dionys Gabr. Occh. q. 8. Bann 22. q. 2. art 8 dub 2. Ouand 4. d. 13. prop. 12. Eymeâ—ic director part 1. q. 2. ad 8. ibi Scoliast Pezant 22 p. 504. a. Syluest sum v. fides nu 6. Simanch cachol instit tit 28. nu 20. Pic. Mirand de fid ord credend theor 12. p. 286. All the Casenists and Schoolemen that haue written touching the nature of heresie and the measure of Catholicke faith agree that there is a certaine measure and quantity of faith without which none can be saued but euery thing reuealed belongs not to this measure and it is enough to beleeue somethings onely by the Colliars faith The which doctrine doth euidently allow our distinction that some things are Fundamentall and some not for no Protestant thinks any point to be so not Fundamentall but that euery man is bound with humility and reuerence to accept it whensoeuer the knowledge and necessity thereof shall be offered him by the Church which is all our aduersaries require in their infolded faith 3 This distinction by g THE WAY pag. 110. me onely touched and that by the way briefly vpon another occasion the Iesuite in this chapter frowardly cauils at and in this place wrangles with the definition that I gaue of points Fundamentall because it is not found in the words of the Scripture that I cited for it in the margent Whereto I answer three things First h Act. 4.12 1. Cor. 3.11 Eph. 2.19 the Scriptures cited shew the knowledge expresse faith of Christs death to be absolutely necessary for all men and two of the places call the matter of this knowledge a foundation Therefore such a point as is absolutely to be knowne and rightly holden of all which euery point reuealed is not may be called a Foundation or Fundamentall point Therfore againe such as by the like confession of our aduersaries some men and all men of some times may erre in or be ignorant of without preiudice of Saluation may be called a point not Fundamentall whence it followes againe that my distinction is grounded well enough vpon the places cited in the margent Secondly I answer that how scornefully soeuer Iesuites thinke of the Scripture yet we Protestants had as lieffe borrow our conclusions distinctions and words wherein we expresse them from it as from the stinking puddles of rotten Schoolemen or new found mint of vpstart Iesuites Thirdly my aduersary himselfe in this very chapter acknowledges the distinction if it bee not applyed to a wrong end to be good For first touching the termes thereof Fundamentall not Fundamentall He finds theÌ„ in S. Austin True it is S. Austin insinuates a distinction of some points Fundamentall and some not Fundamentall Therefore the words are according to Saint Austin and that is well Next in the matters themselues also he sayes Catholicke Diuines make some distinction and hold some to be more necessary to be actually and expresly knowne of all sorts then other therefore he quarrels at that which himselfe confesses to be the truth There be some humours loue to be doing if it be but to keepe their hand in vre * Maiol dies Canic I haue read of one that had so vsed himselfe to pilfring that he would pick his owne purse and steale things out of his owne closet The Iesuite seems to be of that kindred that will quarrell and keepe a wrangling with the doctrine of his owne Church rather then he will cease from his contentious spirit 4 Yet the saddle somewhere pinches him and
is quenched the light and zeale and comfortable assurance thereof is taken away and all sorts of people are imboldened to security negligence in seeking that quantity of knowledge whereto God hath enabled them to attaine So that hereby the people of God in whom p Col. 3.16 his word ought to dwell plentifully with all manner of knowledge q Ro. 10.10 that should be able both to beleeue with the heart and confesse with their mouth to saluation r Heb. 5. vlt. that through long custome should haue their wits exercised to discerne both good and euill ſ 1 Pet. 3.15 that should be alway ready to giue an answer to euery one that asketh a reason of the hope that is in them are turned into sencelesse Idols that can neither heare nor see nor vnderstand the which kind of ignorance the ancient Church neuer allowed Thirdly we cōdemne the defining of faith yea entire Catholicke faith by this kind of beleeuing for albeit the faith knowledge of the best of Gods children be intangled as Caluin hath freely confessed with the relickes of much ignorance when many things beleeued necessary to saluation are not yet distinctly vnderstood yet there is a progres increase in knowledge wherby the dullest ignorantest of Gods children are inlightned more and more vntill they reach that quantity of apprehension that the commandement of faith requires In which sense we allow the faith of any man liuing specially the vnlearned to be implicite First when he knowes and apprehends in generall the substantiall articles belonging to faith which are contained in the Scriptures and rule of faith Secondly when the ignorance is only in the particulars whereby the said generall articles are demonstrated as a lay man beleeuing the Vnity and Trinity of Persons in God yet is not able to expresse or conceaue the difference betweene the essence and the Persons nor the different manner of persons proceeding 3. When withall he vses the meanes to increase in knowledge by searching the Scriptures and hearing the word preached and in the meane time obediently submits himselfe to the ministry and direction of the Church herein The implicite faith of such persons as haue this threefold disposition concurring in them we condemne not but this is not it which our aduersaries pleade for who defēd that it is enough to assent to the Church though all this be wanting that is to say to professe himselfe a Romane Catholicke beleeuing as the present Church holds without any knowledge of the things in themselues 8 Note lastly that the distinct knowledge of things beleeued which against this implicitie of faith we require is the knowledge of that which God hath reuealed not of the essence and reason of the things For the vnderstanding whereof we must consider that the Scriptures and Church by their proposition reueale the points of faith vnto vs and bid vs learne beleeue thē as that there is one God the maker of all things and one mediator Iesus Christ that was conceaued by the Holy Ghost borne of the virgine Marie and as followes in the Rule of Faith Which things thus mentioned vnto vs are profound mysteries and haue many abstruse and secret notions belonging to them as for example the deepe reasons of the Trinitie in the Godhead and the Vnion of the two natures in Christ Now when we require knowledge to be ioyned with the faith of these things we meane the knowledge of the Reuelation not of the reason and whole nature of the things reuealed for is any man so presumptuous as to imagine that a supernaturall obiect beleeued by faith reuealed by God can by discourse of reason be reduced to naturall vnderstanding the Apostle t 1. Cor. 2.14 saying The naturall man perceaues not the things of God neither can he know them Or do our aduersaries imagine the knowledge we require to be such as is in humane sciences where conclusions are demonstrated by their principles and things are comprehended in their causes and properties Haue they that power ouer their people to make them beleeue that we require for example men to be able to vnderstand and vtter the manner and reasons how God is one How 3. in Person How the dead shall be raised againe How our nature subsists in the word How the redemption of mankinde could be wrought by the sufferings and death of the Sonne of God How the Sacraments confer Grace How man could be predestinate before the world was made We do not require the world to know these things u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Theodor. de prouid l. 10 sub fin which are reserued to the beatificall vision in the life to come but onely in such sort and measure as is reuealed which is by conceauing that God is one that the Persons are 3. that the dead shall be raised againe c. and such things concerning them as may without error be vnderstood * Deut. 29 29. For secret things belong to the Lord our God but things reuealed belong to vs and to our children for euer * The state of the question The true state of the question therefore touching implicite faith is whether the beleeuer besides his generall assenting to the Church and Scripture be also bound to haue in himselfe a distinct knowledge of things propounded him to beleeue so that he can according to any true notion of conceauing apprehend and conceaue that which is reuealed to him in which question the distinction of Necessary as the meanes and Necessary by the command is friuolous because whatsoeuer is omitted against Gods commandement is sinne and consequently damnable without repentance and therefore if knowledge be commanded it is also the meanes of Saluation so farre foorth as the obseruation of the commandements is the meanes But our aduersaries apply this distinction which in some question is of good vse in this place to lay their people a sleepe on their pillow when they shall heare knowledge to be commanded but yet not as a Necessary meanes Now there be twenty wayes to escape from a commandement 9 These things thus premised now I answer my aduersaries arguments made for implicite faith against distinct knowledge The first that I dispute so whotly against that which M. Wootton admits is false For M. Wootton admits no more then he insinuates in his conclusion that a generall beleefe of some points may suffice some persons without danger of damnation and this pleases me well enough for I haue shewed this not to be the question but let my aduersary deale sincerely and hold him to that which is taught in his Church and it will please himselfe neuer a whit When that doctrine allowes ignorance in all points and the other which is somewhat honester allowes it in more points and defines the ignorance otherwise then M. Wootton will do My aduersary therefor hath not M. Wootton on his side nor against me but directly with me
into France whereupon in the time of the Emperour Charles the great and by the appointment of the Apostolicke sea a generall Councell called by the Emperour was celebrated at Francford in France which ACCORDING TO THE TRACT OF THE SCRIPTVRE AND TRADITION OF OVR ELDERS DESTROYED AND VTTERLY ABDICATED THAT FALSE SYNOD OF THE GREEKES whereof a large booke which in my youth I read in the pallace by the said Emperour was sent to Rome by certaine Bishops Nothing can be plainer then this testimonie against all the Replier hath said The like is written in p Ado chron an 792. Rog. Houed contin Bed an 792. Auent aun Boio p g 253. Aiâ—noin pa 450. Visperg pa. 187 Rhegin pag 30 many histories besides And after the death of Charles his sonne Lodowicke held a Councell at Paris which is extant about the same matter of Images wherein the decrees of Nice and the booke written by Adrian in defence thereof against the Councell of Frankford are againe condemned which shewes that the Councell of Frankford had done the same before Hincmarus q Vbi sup sayes By the authoritie of this Councell of Frankford the worship of Images was not a little suppressed but yet Adrian and other Bishops perseuering in their opinion and r Suarum pupparum cultum vehementius promouerunt promoting more vehemently the worship of their puppets after the death of Charles his sonne Lewis in a certaine booke inueyed farre more sharply against the worship of Images then Charles had done The Councell of Paris it selfe Å¿ Concil Paris pag. 19. Francfurt an 1596. in 8. sayes The Epistle of our Lord Adrian the Pope which he directed to Constantine and Irene for the setting vp of Images we made to be read before vs and as farre as we could perceiue as he iustly reprehends those which haue presumed to breake and abolish the images of Saints so himselfe is knowne to haue done indiscreetly in commanding them superstitiously to be worshipped For which cause also he assembled a Councell and by his authoritie decreed and that vnder an oath that they should be set vp and worshipped when it is lawfull indeed to erect them but vtterly vnlawfull to worship them The same Councell of Paris t Pag. 130. affirmes that it would haue hurt neither faith hope nor charitie if no image at all had bene painted or made throughout the world It is certaine therefore that the Councell of Nice was condemned by the Councels of Frankford and Paris both 5 But the Replier sayes All that is found touching this condemnation is but in a forged booke ascribed falsely to Charles This is vntrue twise ouer First because as I haue now shewed many others say it as well as the Booke of Charles Next I proued directly against Cope and the Iesuites that the booke is not forged and Bellarmine and Baronius confessing it to containe the Acts of Frankeford and the Councell condemned therein to be the second Nicene without all doubt testifieth so much It seemes that the pen-man was Albinus our countriman u Trithem de script in Alb. Sixt. Senen l. 4. Hittorp praef ad Lect. de diuin offic Rom. who was very great with Charles and his instructer in all kinde of learning and one of the famousest men in those times For thus writ w Annal. par 1. pag. 405. Roger Houeden and x Flor. hist pag. 215. Matthew Westminster Charles the king of Fraunce sent into England a booke of the Councell which was directed to him from Constantinople In which booke alas for griefe many things are found inconuenient and contrarie to the faith But especially that it was decreed by the consent of almost all the Easterne Doctors no lesse then three hundred or aboue this was the second Nicene Councell that images should be adored which the Church of God altogether abhorreth against which thing Albinus wrote an Epistle maruellously confirmed with the authoritie of the Scripture and in the name of the Bishops and Nobles brought the same with the booke to the King of France Albinus therefore it seemes penned it the Bishops and State approoued it and the Emperour ratified and published it This makes it of more authoritie then if the Emperour alone had done it But who penned it it is impertinent when Bellarmine and Baronius graunt it containes the acts of the Councell of Francford and no man may doubt but the Councell therein condemned is the second Nicene For this is enough to prooue the Nicene Councell to be condemned by the Councell of Frankford whosoeuer were the author of Charles his booke That which the Replier obiects touching the Constantinopolitane Councell named in stead of the Nicene helpes him not Bellarmine y De imag l. 21 c. 14. §. Neque obstat answers Constantinople is set downe in stead of Nice through vnskilfulnesse or want of memorie And z An. 794. n. 33. Baronius though he hold the councell of Constantinople that decreed images should be broken is meant there yet he grants the councell of Nice is meant and condemned also And it must needs be as Bellarmine sayes for though Constantinople be named yet it is added that there it was decreed that images should be worshipped which was not done in the Constantinopolitane but in the Nicene councell All which being put together the testimonies I meane whereby the booke is proued to be Charles his and the Councell meant to be the second Nicene it appeares plainly that the booke is authenticall and the author thereof both knew well enough what the Constantinopolitane and Frankford decreed and set downe the Canon neither by heare-say nor at aduenture nor yet by the imagination of his owne head but with good aduice and vpon certaine knowledge It being the vainest point of a thousand to imagine that Albine and the whole Cleargie of England France Germanie and Italie with the Nobilitie and States should condemne a thing which they vnderstood not and now after eight hundred yeares the true knowledge of all things should come by some reuelation belike to a few arrogant Iesuites who yet can agree in nothing about the same I admonish the Repliar by this example wherein he hath sped so vnluckily not to thinke to deface the truth with boldnesse and bragging but to giue way to the truth and in seeking it to tie himselfe to no mans deuice till he haue better assurance of it For there is scarce one example of antiquitie that we produce against them but his Iesuites are deuided in their answers and speake so contrary one to another that it is easie to see they intend nothing but to be obstinate and resolute And so the example of the second Nicene councell shewes that the Popes councels how generall or approoued soeuer haue erred in defining by the iudgement of the whole Christian world and their errors had beene controlled in former ages as well as the Protestants now controll them so that the things wherein
Papacie Which is as much as we require For hereby we make plaine demonstration that our aduersaries cannot assigne what persons succeeded one another but are constrained to set them downe out of order and some also that neuer were Bishops of Rome at all Whence it followes that the succession is not precisely in those persons nor in that order that the Iesuite hath set downe in his Catalogue and our aduersaries pretend They which blaze their catalogues of Popes from Peter and boast so fast that Gods ordinance hath vpholden a visible succession in the Church of Rome are bound to place euery person in his owne order or else content themselues with that succession which is in faith and doctrine A.D. To the FOVRTH I answer that vacancie of the Sea Pag. 291. is no morall interruption of succession although the vacancie continue for a good space neither is it any maine inconuenience so that in the meane time no speciall matter of importance happen which cannot be ended without one in that office to interpose his authoritie 5 Though euery kind of vacancie take not away succession yet the vacancies of the Romane sea disable the succession thereof for being of that nature which our aduersaries pretend who hold the Pope to be such a Head that without him there can neither be vnitie in faith nor stabilitie in the truth nor life in the Church in as much as these things a See Can. loc l. 6. cap. 8. ad 1. Greg. de Valen de obiect fid punct 7. qu. 7. are holden to haue their influx into the Church by no other meanes then through him So long time therefore as the Sea wants a Pope the Church wants a head and meanes to conuey the truth to it if the Pope be the onely Head and Meanes And although euery distance and period of time require not authoritie to interpose it selfe in things of question yet if it be Gods ordinance thus to direct his Church by the Pope and by no other meanes he is bound to preuent such long vacancies and perplexities wherein no man liuing for many yeares together can tell who is true Pope Let the words of Canus touching the time of the Popes death be noted and applied to our vacancies b Loc. l. 4. c. vlt. ad 12. When the Pope is dead the Church no doubt is still one and the Spirit of truth abideth in it yet is it left LAME and DIMINISHED being WITHOVT CHRISTS VICAR THAT ONE PASTOR OF THE CHVRCH Therefore albeit the truth still be in the Church yet if any controuersies arise the Churches iudgement without the Head is not so certaine Pag. 291. See Onuphr annot super Platin. A.D. To the FIFTH it is a meere fable without all probabilitie or morall possibilitie that euer there was any such woman Pope And if there had bene so it prooues nothing but a vacancie of the Sea for that time 6 For the vacancie I haue said and by pretence thereof the succession of the foulest hereticks that haue euer bene may be salued the time of their sitting being expounded to be but a vacation But to say the succession of the woman Pope is a fable without all probabilitie is a desperate answer when so innumerable authors write it and being as morall as A. D. is beleeued it also In the Church of Sienna in Italy c Papir Masson de episc Vrb. l. 6. in Pio 3. where the pictures of the Popes that haue bene haue vsed of long time to be set vp the image of this Pope Ioane till d Florimund fab Ioan. c. 22. n. 2. pag. 19 1. within these twentie yeares that the Pope and the Duke of Florence at the intercession of Baronius cast it downe was to be seene standing in it place among the other Popes that had bene of ancient time It is no contending with obstinacie but when the first and sole authors of the storie and the confidentest reporters of it were the wisest and learnedst Papists that liued in their time and Onuphrius and the Iesuites were the first that euer denied it it is folly for the Replier to thinke to discredit the storie M. Cooke hath so well quit it both from Onuphrius and the rest that haue followed that I will onely referre the reader to his e Called Pope Joane printed ann 1610 for Edm. Blount William Barret Booke which handles the point throughly and exactly A. D. To the SIXT Pag. 291. Bellarm. lib. 4. de Rom. Pontif the learned Cardinall Bellarmine doth shew that there was neuer any Pope hereticke euen as a priuate man and all the best learned Catholicke Diuines agree that neuer any did or shall or can ex Cathedra define any error or heresie to be true faith or authoritatiuely teach the Church any thing contrary to the true faith Which being although some of them in their priuate opinion had held any error in faith or heresie it could not preiudice the Church 7 Here are three things affirmed touching the Pope First that there was neuer any Pope Hereticke euen as a priuate man as Bellarmine shewes This I disproued in THE WAY a Digress 28. 47. nu 15.53 nu 8. three times ouer and it is a desperate vntruth against the experience of many Popes and against the mind of diuerse most learned Papists True it is that Bellarmine saies it is probable and piously may be beleeued and doth his best to quit such Popes as are commonly charged but his answers are vnsufficient and against the vniuersall consent of all historie And to insist vpon a particular example or two Honorius the first of that name fell into the heresie of the Monothelites holding that Christ had but one will and so consequently but one nature and for the same was iudged and condemned in b Concil 3. Constantinop Synod 6. act 13. sub Agatho Phot. Biblioth in Synod 6. graec p. 6. Concil Nicen. 2. act 7. epist 1. Synodal ad Augg. epist 2. ad omnes Fidel. concil 8. act 7. colloqu 3. three generall Councels Whereto Bellarmine with all his magnified learning c De Pontif. Rom. l. 4 c. 11. § ad secundum dico can answer no more but that the Councels are corrupted the which thing Albertus Pighius d Alb. Pigh hierarch ecclesiast l. 4. c. 8. §. Sedquoniam ex pag. 251. hauing said before e Diatrib de Actis 6. 7. Synod praef ad lecto was admonished thereof and wished to recant it and Dominicus Bannes f Dom. Bann 22 qu. 1 art 10. dub 2. p. 116. saies Certainely it is ridiculous that now after 900 yeares Pighius should find those witnesses false and forgers And Cano g Can. Loc. l. 6. c. 8. ad 11. that this conceite was neuer heard in the Church before Holding himselfe resolutely that Honorius erred and alledged diuers proofes for the same Liberius fell into Arianisme Athanasius and Hierom h Athan.