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A87226 Confidence encountred: or, A vindication of the lawfulness of preaching without ordination. In answer to a book published by N.E. a friend of Mr. Tho Willes, intituled, The confident questionist questioned. Together with an answer to a letter of Mr. Tho. Willes, published in the said book. By which the lawfulness of preaching without ordination is cleared, and the ordination of the national ministers proved to be a nullity. By Jer. Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1658 (1658) Wing I1094; Thomason E936_1; ESTC R207711 43,652 64

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Fulk and Whittingam and divers others when they have had to do with Papists have inveighed against Ordination from them as a stinking filthy thing as I have already observed So that the great loss they are at among themselves touching the Derivation of their Authority is one Reason why it may be questioned Whether they have any or no The second Reason is their unwillingness to answer those Objections that their Adversaries the Papists objected against their Ordination which is a shrewd sign they feared it would not abide the trial As 1. they objected That the English Reformers in Queen Elizabeth 's time went to a Popish Irish Bishop that was then Prisoner in the Tower and promised him his liberty and a sum of money if he would ordain them Bishops but he refused 2. It is objected by their Adversaries the Papists That they sought to be ordained by the Bishop of Landaff but he refused it 3. It is further objected That Parker and others of the Queens new Bishops were ordained by one Scory a Priest at a meeting which they had for this purpose at the Nags-head-Tavern in Cheap-side To these Objections no Answer was given till Bishop Masons time which was nigh fifty yeers after when most of the men were dead that were the chief Witnesses to these things though the Answer at that time much concerned them these Objections being then the common talk of their Adversaries A third Reason why they are to be questioned appears in the Case of the new-made Bishop of Winchester who indicted Bishop Bonner to which Bonner pleaded That Winchester was no Bishop according to any Law and the Judges in Queen Elizabeth's time did resolve That Bonner's Plea should be received See the Abridgement of Diers Reports 7 Eliz. 234. And that they were at this time no Bishops neither by Statute-Law or Canon-Law appears by the great industry and care that the new Bishops took to get themselves confirmed by Act of Parliament the words of the Act are these All Acts and things heretofore made and done about the consecration of Archbishops Bishops Priests c. by vertue of the Queens Letters Patents since the begining of her Reign be and shall be by Authority of this Parliament declared and judged good and perfect c. And a little after in the same Act it followeth That all Archbishops Bishops Priests c. be declared in very deed by the Authority aforesaid and enacted to be Archbishops Bishops Priests c. and rightly made ordered and consecrated any Statute-Law Canon-Law or other thing to the contrary notwithstanding 8 Eliz. 1. So that you may see that the Clergy of England were no lawful ordained Ministers neither by Statute nor Canon-Law till the 8 of Eliz. in the Opinion of the Judges in the Case of Bonner and Horn before mentioned which I desire may be considered by all judicious Christians and then I question not but they will see that the Clergy of England have little reason to glory in their Apostolical succession and to cry down others that stand upon a more religious foot of account then themselves POSTSCRIPT Reader WHereas Mr. Willes in the forementioned-Letter tells a story of a man that was in company with me at his house as though he should say He had rather hear the Devil then an ordained Minister Give me leave to tell thee That this scandal carries enough in the mouth of it to discover the untruth thereof to all sober and intelligent men for I think no man in his wits but had rather hear the worst of men then the Devil himself And if the Gentleman be points at be Mr. Vancourt as I know not who else he should mean I must tell thee That his dayly hearing such as are ordained in the sense that Mr. Willes calls Ordination is to all that know him a sufficient justification And though Mr. Willes would have put such a sense upon some words that sell from this Gentleman yet Mr. Willes cannot but remember that the Gentleman was offended at him for that he misrepresented him to the company then present and thereupon Mr. Willes was desired not to misconstrue these words and he promised that he would not though since he hath done it contrary to the Gentlemans then-declared meaning and his own promise Vale. Thou art desired to take notice of these two errors viz. in the Epist read organical for original pag 20. lin 20. for Mat road Mal. There is an excellent piece lately published entituled gospel-Gospel-worship no work for infants cleerly proving the folly vanity and deceit of infants Baptism and that the true Worshippers of God are believing men women converted by the preaching of the word not infants By H. Haggar Sound Doctrine or the Doctrine of the Gospel about the extent of Christs death with a brief compendium of Doctrine of the holy Scriptures clearing up the riches of God's love to all mankinde and his desires to save them that yet wilfully perish By William Pedelsden Both to be sold by Dan. White at the seven Stars in Pauls Church-yard FINIS