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A62668 To receive the Lords Supper, the actual right and duty of all church-members of years not excommunicate made good against Mr. Collins his exceptions against The bar removed, written by the author : and what right the ignorant and scandalous tolerated in the church have to the Lords Supper declared : many thing belonging to that controversie more fully discussed, tending much to the peace and settlement of the church : and also a ful answer to what Mr. Collins hath written in defence of juridical suspension, wherein his pretended arguments from Scripture are examined and confuted : to which is also annexed A brief answer to the Antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders / by John Timson ... Timson, John.; Timson, John. Brief answer to the antidiatribe written by Mr. Saunders. 1655 (1655) Wing T1296; ESTC R1970 185,323 400

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Church in that remembrance And I doubt not but Christ has a great number of his Elect alwayes of the unregenerate in the Church What incongruity in all this Besides some other things I said It sounds very harsh in the Church to exclude this Ordinance of Christ from being a means of converting the unregenerate in the Church they being the most proper objects of converting grace as held out in in the promises for the putting of which into execution all the Ordinances in the Church seeme to be subservient And I verily believe this Ordinance of the holy Supper had never been denyed to convert in the Church had not Divines run themselves upon such great mistake about habitual unworthinesse from 1 Cor. 11. That very mistake hath occasioned this for if the unregenerate eat and drink unworthily as the Corinths did and were punished for of necessity then it were rational to deny it a converting Ordinance for as the Reverent Doctor argues rationally from that thus Natural men are guilty of the bloud of Christ and ea● and drink judgement to themselves and shall we think that that sinful act in unworthy receiving shall be so blest of God as to become a means of conversion to them c. This must needs be a consequence of the other mistake That being removed men will easily yeeld the other Mr. Collins tels us of twenty arguments of Mr. Gillespy that it is not for conversion the which he sayes I have not yet answered I must confesse it neither doe I know what they are for I have not his Book My friend Mr. Humfrey hath promised to answer those arguments Which I believe will be easie enough to doe unlesse they be stronger then the strongest of Mr. Collins in his answer to Mr. Barsdale upon the same argument pag. 14. the latter end of his Book the which argument of his I shall examine anon Let us first see what he hath excepted against mine Which I think are so much for the probability of the affirmative that the negative must remain doubtful unto the impartial intelligent Reader That one special end of the work of the Ministery in general is for conversion of the unregenerate in the Church will hardly be denyed But to the administration of the Sacrament the main essentials of that work of the Ministery in the Church are of necessity as Word and Prayer and breaking of Bread Act. 2.42 Therefore one special end of the Sacrament as it is an essential part of that work is for the converting the unregenerate in the Church The major proposition is bottomed from Ephes 4.8 10 11 12 13 verses Christ ascended far above the heavens that he might fill all things And he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the gathering of Saints for the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the body of Christ till we all come into the union of faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ 1. Here it is plain that God hath ordained the work of the Ministry in the hands of Pastors and Teachers in the Church to edifie the body of Christ untill the whole number of his elect be united to him and made compleat c. And we know there is alwayes in the Church objects of conversion as well as of the promises to which the work of the Ministry is intended to unite them unto Christ c. And this is to be done by the work of the Ministry in general without any distinction of parts the whole work together without exception of any part is for conversion in the Church as is clear from this place Now unlesse Mr. Collins or any other what ever can give us some clear Scripture to exclude a part of this work from that end of conversion they must allow this end of conversion to the work of the Ministry in general but as that was never performed as yet so I think never will by any only men take the boldnesse to separate that which the holy Ghost doth joyn together upon meer mistake about unworthy receiving And it is a rule that Mr. Collins doth justifie from Matth. 7.6 Where the Scriptures d● not distinguish we must not distinguish If a principal end of the work of the Ministry in the Church be intended for conversion in general then the particular parts of that work for the particulars are included in the general And the most comprehensive sense i● to be taken of all Scripture-expressions unlesse some other Scriptures put some limitations of that sense and when any man ca● shew me a Scripture that excludes the administration of the Sacrament from this principal end of conversion in the Church I will have done with this Argument And untill then the Argument is of more force then all the authority of men meerly can in the least overthrow We should distinguish of preaching the Gospel unto Pagans that are aliens to the Common-wealth of Israel and of the work of the Ministry consisting of the whole administration of the Gospel intended only for the spiritual good of the visible Church of Christ unto Infidels the preaching of the Gospel is appointed the ordinary way and means to convert them unto the faith and bring them into the Church but those that are in the Church as they are objects of the promises and under the obligation of all observances which Infidels are not so they are under greater advantages of converting them unto sincerity of faith and the power of godlinesse by the work of the Ministry in general of which Infidels are allowed but a part The minor proposition is evident that to the administration of the Sacrament it 's necessary that the main essentials of the work of the Ministry in the Church be performed as publishing not only the Word of institution but the History of Christs death and passion with exhortations sutable to the Ordinance in hand according to the practise and custom of our own Church with solemn prayers and praises considerably meet for so waighty an Ordinance unto which are adjoyned instituted signes to be given and taken in remembrance of the death of Christ all which concurring together in the act of administration doth comprise upon the matter the main essentials of publick worship wherein the work of the Ministry doth chiefly consist so that I cannot conceive how the premises can be denyed by any therefore the conclusion doth necessarily follow That the Sacrament as it is an essential part of the work of the Ministry is for conversion in the Church But Mr. Collins saith This argument is worth nothing But why did he not shew the weaknesse of it then his bare say so is no answer But he sayes Let it be proved that therefore Christ hath appointed it for conversion if it were doubtlesse the excommunicate should not be debarred I have made good the
and good order beseeming Gods worship externally I would gladly know wherein the Eldership is any further concerned 2. What though an incapable neglect of the private doth hinder the profitable use of the publick and that it cannot without sin be performed doth it therefore follow that such persons in the Church may neglect the publick worship without sin if not whether is the greatest to obey and doe as well as they can with sin or to cast off all care o● duty wholly it's easily answered in all other duties and but a meer begging the question to deny it in this of the Sacrament a● to that instance of his Cleansing was the unclean persons private duty yet till it was done he might not eat the Passeover 1. Answ It 's a question whether cleansing were a private duty only could an unclean per●o● make himself clean by what law is a query Numb 6.9 10 11. 19.19 speak the contrary 2. Grant it were might they enter into the gates of the Sanctuary to offer unto God any other sacrifice until they were cleansed In Hezekiahs Passeover of the 2. month many did eat the Passeover that was not clean and were accepted We know they might not for it was accounted a defiling the Sanctuary a thing threatned with death or perpetual banishment from the Congregation His instance doth rather prove that the justly excommunicate ought not to be admitted to the publick Ordinances of Worship untill they be lawfully admitted upon their satisfying the Church by repentance Then to prove persons in the Church not excommunicate may not take the Sacrament untill they have performed that private duty of examination I have said enough to prove that the neglect of this private duty of examination in order to receiving doth not reach the neglect of that duty of cleansing in order unto the whole worship of God In his 32. pag. he is nibling at my next thing wherein I would have this private duty of examination occasionally prescribed as a remedy or a means to that particular case of offending And therefore they were to approve themselves according to the rules of institution and good order and so come in doing the good and declining the evill they had been punished for c. To this purpose I said the end is more principal the means lesse Unto this Mr. Collins saith No man can receive the Sacrament without sin neglecting the due means to make him a worthy receiver He had thought due means must be necessarily supposed to the end Who will deny what he saith to this Answ But what is this to answer the thing May the main duty of publick worship be neglected unlesse a man be able to use all due means in order to a more comfortable and profitable receiving If not let them so come as well as they can rather then the main of Gods worship shall be omitted By this which hath been answered unto Mr. Collins his weak exceptions I hope the impartial Reader may clearly judge upon what bottome we infer free admission namely the authority of Christs command Besides you may take notice of the pitiful shifts that our adversaries are put unto to dispute against the authority of Christs commands Let them consider He that breaks the least of his commands and teacheth men so shall be accounted least in the Kingdom of Heaven Nay if they shall wittingly thus offend in one they are guilty of all My last query is Whether there be any thing in the Nature language actions or end of the Sacrament in 1 Cor. 11. or elsewhere incongruous to the unregenerate receiving in the Church Mr. Collins saith Whether in 1 Cor. 11. there be any thing or no he will not dispute it is enough he findes it elsewhere and he conceives there is something contrary to the receiving of the ignorant and scandalous which is the question for the Church judgeth not of secret things What he hath said to this Answ hath been sufficiently answered already he hath nothing new but the old taken for granted which hath been denyed according to the stating of the question I am glad he is so sober as to say the Church judgeth not of secrets then I hope he will not proceed to censure any of his people but for scandalous sins persisted unto obstinacy if he or his Eldership doe they undertake to judge of secrets But then he comes more particularly to the question As first Touching the institution for saith he Christ gave it to none such he means Christ gave it to none that were ignorant or scandalous 1. Christ gave it to none but the twelve that were impowered with Commission to Preach and baptize heal the sick and to cast out Devils c. What then must none but such be admitted this would be a good argument to deny not only the cup but the whole administration from the Laity But 2. The question is whether the Apostles in their ordering of particular Congregations gave any direction to exclude any that came under Baptism from the holy Supper and yet allowed them the priviledge of all other Ordinances in the Church The Scripture speaks of thousands that submitted unto baptism and continued stedfast in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers which are the main essentials of worship and this is spoken of the whole assoon as they were baptized Act. 2.32 And the Church of Corinths are commended for keeping the Ordinances It was a profaning of this of the Supper they were blamed and punished for And for grosse ignorance amongst them we need not doubt of it and other scandalous and disorderly conversation but what is this of his but ●o insinuate unto the world that the bap●ized in the Church that are either ignorant or in some things scandalous are not of the Church the old road of Brownism But then he saith secondly The Sacrament is contrary to such in the nature of it for it is strong meat and the seal of the righteousnesse of faith That it is strong meat onely Answ we deny it remains for him to prove if he can his say so is no proof yet that 's his great argument He had need commence Doctor before we credit his bare word but he gives his reason for it in his Book pag. 104. Strong meat belongs to men of age who by reason of an habit have their senses exercised to discern good and evil Heb. 5.13 14. But the Sacrament is strong meat therefore it doth not belong to those that are babes in knowledge But I deny his minor he saith it's evident he gives his reason That meat which is of ha●dest digestion and concoction and which not duly digested proves most pernicious to the body is strong meat but such is the Sacrament of the Lords Supper I deny his minor again he proves it 1 Cor. 11.28 and tels us This meat is not tasted nor digested well without the knowing of the greatest mysteries of
premises Answ 1 the conclusion needs no proof If the same instruments of the Spirit unto conversion be in the administration of the Sacrament as at the other parts of the Ministerial work in the Church then we must allow the fame effect to the one as to the other both being the Ordinance of God and performed by persons in the Office and Function of the Ministry But in the administration of the Sacrament are the same instruments of the Spirit unto conversion as Word Prayer c. Therefore the Sacrament is appointed for conversion in the Church Whereas he sayes Then doubtlesse the excommunicate should not be debarred it is no consequence because converting of sinners is not all the ground why God commands his Church to observe all things of his prescribing but his own glory in commanding what he will because he will Besides 2. Bar removed pag. 70 71 72 73. The excommunicate should be put out of all Church Communion in all other parts of publick worship as well as from the Sacrament as I have made it out in my answer unto Doctor Drake which is not yet answered by any 3. This implyes that the unregenerate are not to doe any thing by way of duty but what is for conversion not be diligent in their callings shew mercy and doe justly c. because these duties are not appointed to convert them Next all men confesse that the Word and Prayer as they are publick Ordinances of God are for conversion in the Church But without the Word and Prayer sanctifying and setting apart the elements of Bread and Wine there can be no Sacrament Therefore the Sacrament as consisting in Word and Prayer is converting This Mr. Collins tearms A thread-bare argument that hath a great hole in it For though the Word and Prayer are means of conversion and they doe constantly attend the Sacrament yet it doth not follow that the Sacrament quà Sacrament is so nor is there any need for conversion that the unregenerate should be at it for they may hear and pray and not receive Why did not Mr. Collins really discover a hole in the argument by some solid answer but fancy a hole before it be made he confesses the Word and Prayer are means of conversion and so grants my major and upon the matter grants my minor by saying that Word and Prayer doe constantly attend the Sacrament but yet he is not willing to yeeld the conclusion which is not very rational I concluding no more then what he grants in the propositions But he saith It will not follow that the Sacrament quà a Sacrament is converting either he must mean that the giving and receiving without word and Prayer is the Sacrament quà a Sacrament or that giving and receiving the signes in relation to Word Prayer conjoyned is the Sacrament quà a Sacrament If he means the former let him prove that giving and receiving the signes of Bread and Wine without Word and Prayer is the Sacrament If the latter then in his granting the premises he yeilds the conclusion and thus you may quickly see what a great hole the hath made in this argument But then he saith Nor is there any need for conversion that the unregenerate should be at it for they may pray and hear and not receive No! Answ is there no great need of converting the unregenerate I had thought they have great need to take the advantage of every Ordinance in the Church appointed for their spiritual good and in order to conversion And have not they as much need to enjoy the benefit of instituted signes conjoyned to the Word and Prayer to represent the death and passion of Jesus Christ unto the outward senses which are the inlets to the understanding heart and conscience as any others But then he sayes They may hear and pray and not receive It 's true so may any other doth it therefore follow that none may receive or that hearing and praying in order to receiving is sufficient without taking and eating and drinking the institute signes in remembrance of the death of Christ Or would he have them to hear and pray in order to receiving and then turn their backs upon Gods holy Ordinance after they have prayed unto God for his blessing upon it The Reverend Doctor said That presence might answer this end unto which I answered If bare presence much more actual receiving But now Mr. Collins sayes That they cannot promise them that their presence will do them good but they are sure he saith their receiving will not And hence concludes my consequence is naught Who can promise before-hand that any other Ordinance in the Church shall doe the unregenerate good by their presence at the time shall they not therefore give their presence It 's the language of Scripture that all in the Church are to keep Gods statutes and judgements for their good But he is sure their receiving will doe them no good I wonder how he dare limit the holy One and detract so injuriously from the wisdome power and grace of Christ in his own appointments He hath confessed before that the Sacraments were instituted for the spiritual good of the visible Church of Christ in general and that this Church consists of good and bad and now he sayes the Sacrament wil doe the unregenerate no good Doth he think the unregenerate are not of the visible Church that Sacraments were instituted for the good thereof The judicious Reader may easily discern how consonant he is to his own judgement in more things then this But this antecedent of his That he is sure their receiving will doe them no good is sufficient to publish to the world that my consequence is naught c. in answer to the Doctor But why doth Mr. Collins give us his argument for the negative He turns me over to Mr. Gillespy that hath twenty arguments I suppose himself may use some of them in his answer to Mr. Barkesdales 9. argument wherein he seemes to make a shew of silenceing all men that hold the Sacrament a converting Ordinance pag. 14. And because the argument which he answers unto is the same with mine I shall crave leave of Mr. Barksdale to examine in brief the strength of his because he thinks he hath done enough at once to shew thevanity of our opinion 1. He argues from the absurdities that will follow Then it is as proper to go to the Heathen and call them to a Sacrament in order to their conversion as to preach the Gospel unto them It concerns Mr. Collins to prove that every Ordinance in the Church instituted for the good thereof Answ 1 doth belong unto Heathen and such and may be used for their good Let him prove that the unbaptized Heathen are as much in Covenant relation and under the obligation of all Christian observance as the unregenerate Christian Let him prove that whatsoever is for conversion in the Church is for the good of Heathens as
by the authority of the Church baptizing them as members of the visible body of Christ cannot be legally put out of Church communion at the pleasure of some few Elders of themselves unlesse deligated so to act from a National Assembly of Presbyters Though the right of discipline may be inherent in every lawful Presbyter yet the exercise thereof is proper only unto those that are intrusted therewith by the representatives of the whole Irregular actings and good ends cannot stand together to doe evil that good may come is not only dangerous but damnable The state of unregeneracy and personal unworthinesse in the Church doth not bar any one from the Sacrament nor doth come within the verge of the Church to judge of or correct in the least Actual unworthinesse persisted in unto obstinacy is the only object of Church censures of persons in the Church yet all actual unworthinesse doth not necessarily run persons upon eating and drinking the Lords Supper unworthily in the Apostles sense There is no personal unworthinesse in the Church in a relative sense in reference to the Sacrament or any uther Ordinance but the carelesse neglect thereof is most unworthy and punishable Not to discern the Lords Body is not to put a difference between common bread and the instituted signes set a part by Word and Prayer to represent the death of Christ for remission of sins Examination is a private duty to be performed between God and the conscience unto a profitable receiving having a special eye to the rules of the whole administration making their approaches there accordingly externally at least There is a real difference to be put between the unregenerate Christian and an unregenerate Infidel the Church and the world believer and unbeliever the confounding of these hath run us into Brownism of late The whole Church is in Covenant with God and are the immediate objects of the promises but the world lies in wickednesse and under wrath without the promises of the Covenant and hope and God in the world The whole Church are under all Gospel observance the whole work of the Ministry as the ordinary means of their conversion and salvation The Pagan world for the most part never had the advantage of so much as any part of that work the Gospel being hid to them that perish Salvation is of the Christian Church but no salvation out of it How can they call on him in whom they have not believed and how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard And there is salvation in no other Name whatsoever save only in Jesus Christ That the legally unclean were not so much debarred the benefit of the Passeover as other Sacrifices or spiritual observances in that Church That the Moral uncleannesse then was no more bar to the Passeover then unto all other observances in the Church Nay that was either punished by the Judges according unto their Judicial proceedings or otherwise cleansed from it by a continual course of Sacrifices And therefore no bar at all against any That no persons in the Church of the Old Testament or in the Churches of the New read of in Scriptures were ever debarred the Passeover or the Sacrament of the holy Supper and allowed the benefit of all the other Ordinances in the Church Hence I cannot but conceive that suspension from the Sacrament alone usually called the minor Excommunication is but a humane invention in the Church More is required to the Lords Supper then to Baptism in the Church yet lesse is required to the holy Supper of them that are Church-members then of Heathens unto Baptism We must distinguish of real and relative personal worthinesse The whole visible Church not under Church censures are personally worthy in a relative sense And hence there is no personal unworthinesse in the Church 2. Of believing in a large sense and of believing in a strict sense both to be accounted true believers in Scripture sense The denomination of a Believer is as well derived from a right object believed on as from the right and holinesse of the Subject believing 3. Of entring into the Covenant and of continuing in the Covenant The former is proper for Infidels the latter concerns the Church for it is supposed that all in the Church have entred the Gospel Covenant And in the Church we must distinguish of transgressing the Covenant and renouncing the Covenant of breaking and renewing it and whosoever is entred into the Covenant comes under the whole administration thereof and cannot be disobliged from any observance thereof but by the binding power of the Keys of Christs Kingdome exercised Juridically Beloved Friends I have now given you an account of the most of my principles that I build upon and conclude free admission to the holy Supper from And I judge they are such that have their rise from the holy Scriptures or are rational deductions drawn from thence which are not in the least loosened nor shaken by Mr. Collins nor any other of his judgement nor I think never will notwithstanding his forwardnesse of spirit in the close of his Book to cry up a victory when he has not so much as routed me in any one thing in all my Book which argues a bold conceited vapouring spirit a little too much Therefore now in short I shall collect some of his main strength and magisterial principles made use of to undermine the foundations of mine either exprest or implyed He denyes that Church-membership alone doth give a full right to the Sacrament therefore superaddes knowledge faith and the fruits of holinesse to give one right all which say I is included in Membership And his superadding will give a Pagan right He affirms that he looks upon all Church-members habitually worthy from their interest in Christ until they discover the contrary by their actual offendings Then say I he holds That all Infants are habitually worthy from their interest in Christ and commonly fall away from that state of grace He sayes 'T is not much material whether the Corinths were punished for habitual unworthinesse or no and yet upon the matter that the whole he disputes against He saith the unregenerate are personally unworthy and therefore cannot receive He sayes there is no promise belongs to the unregenerate in the Church that have not faith to apply it and that they are rather objects of the first grace then of the promise of that grace and that the Heathen are as much objects of the promises of first grace as the unregenerate part of the Church And doubts whether any promise belong to men as unregenerate if so then Heathen may come to the Sacrament He puts no difference between the unregenerate in the Church and the Pagan world in respect of promises titles duties priviledges except it be the baptizing their children he undisciples them unduties them uncovenants them in reference to the holy Supper and yet will have them Church-members and present their children unto baptism