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A51725 Discourses upon Cornelius Tacitus written in Italian by the learned Marquesse Virgilio Malvezzi ; dedicated to the Serenissimo Ferdinand the Second, Great Duke of Thuscany ; and translated into English by Sir Richard Baker, Knight.; Discorsi sopra Cornelio Tacito. English Malvezzi, Virgilio, marchese, 1595-1653.; Baker, Richard, Sir, 1568-1645. 1642 (1642) Wing M359; ESTC R13322 256,112 410

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the man and not the woman and the honours that are done to the women ought to passe by the way of their husbands and therefore it is said in Esay 〈◊〉 invocetur nomen tuum super nos This course Tiberius tooke most notably who when his mother made any suite in his name he presently granted it and more then so he many times at the suit of Livia required those things of the Senat which without blushing he could not have asked but when it was moved to give her honours immediately without passing by the meanes of Tiberius he then presently opposed it saying Moderandos foeminarum honores But if we speake of those Princes that live securely in peace and are well setled in their states as at this day many are in Italy then either those women that should governe together with the men are in judgement and understanding fit for it or else they are altogether unfit if unfit it may then be enough for them to looke to matters at home and Domesticall affaires but if fit I cannot then thinke any thing more just or more convenient or more profitable to a Prince then to call such women of his blood to beare a part of the burthens of government both because by their experience and prudence they may assist the Prince as much as any other and also because by reason of their owne interest and the singular affection they beare to their husbands their sonnes or nephewes there can be none found that with more sincerity and faithfulnesse and without any by-respects will helpe them to beare so great a burthen as a Kingdome is and so much more as they are alwaies like to be partakers as well of the dangers as of the profits of the Prince A thing which is not found in strangers and such as are mercenary whose profit oftentimes lookes another way and is divided from the Princes profit Whereupon S. 〈◊〉 upon that place of Esay Pater filiis notam faciet veritamet saith Non revelatur servo veritas quia servus nescit quid faciat Dominus ejus sed nec Mercenarius rapitur ad contemplandam veritatem quia propriam quaerit utilitatem And therefore Augustus a most wise Prince had often conference with Livia Numa Pompilius with Aegeria Cyrus with Aspas●…a Tarquinius with Tanaquill and Justinian with his wife Theodosia Princes therefore ought not to despise the counsels of women of their blood but to hold them in great account whereof in my opinion there is in Genesis a Golden Text Sara having spoken to Abraham to send away Agar and Ismael it seemes he was not very willing to give credit to the words of a woman which God knowing said unto him Omnia quae dixerit tibi Sara audi vooem ejus Moreover when our Lord God made the woman he said Faciamus ei Adjutorium simile sibi and why then should we seeke after other helpers and not take those who are made of purpose for our ayd According to this my opinion was decided the controversie in Tacitus betweene Valorius Messalina and Caecina where it was concluded that in governments which stand in danger it is not fit to bring in women but very fit in governments that are peaceable and secure In which I say more that a Prince who is yong cannot doe better then not onely to be counselled a thing in part also fit where States are dangerous but to suffer himselfe also to be governed by women Theodatus King of the Ostrogothes in the beginning of his Raigne carried himselfe with great moderation as long as he agreed with his wife but when he left to follow her advice he filled with injustice all his Kingdome The Emperour Constantinus Sestus never governed well but when he suffered his mother Irene to direct him And Salomon never runne into disorderly courses as long as his mother Bersabe●… lived of whom he scorned not to be taught as himselfe in the Proverbs saith Filius fui patris mei tenellus Vnigenitus coram matre mea docebat me atque dicebat suscipiat verba mea cor tuum custodi praecepta mea vives And therefore S. Chrysostome upon S. John saith Nihil potentius muliere bona ad instituendum informandum virum quodcunque voluerit neque tam leniter anticos nec magistros patietur ut conjugem admonentem atque consulentem habet enim voluptatem quandam admonitio uxoria cum plurimum amet cui consulit multos possum afferre viros asperos immites per uxorem mites redditos mansuetos Who knowes not that Tiberius never plunged himselfe so much into all kinds of wickednesse as after his mothers death And the reason which all men alledge to prove women unfit for government is of no force of force I know in generall but that in particular women should not be as fit as men I hold it a great folly to thinke having my selfe although but yong not onely found written in Histories but seene in experience many women able to have governed the whole World and to these the frailty of their sexe is so farre from being a hinderance that rather they are worthy of the more praise for overcomming naturall defects with supply of vertue Vix dum ingressus Illyricum Tiberius properis matris literis excitur neque satis compertum est spirantem adhuc Augustum apud urbem Nolam an exanimem repererit acribus namque custodiis domum vias sepserat Livia laetique interdum 〈◊〉 vulgabantur donec 〈◊〉 quae tempus monebat simul excessisse Augustum rerum potiri Neronem eadem fama detulit That at one and the same time to make knowne the death of the Prince and the assumption of the successour is a thing very profitable for States that stand in danger The foure and twentieth Discourse THere is nothing makes me more beleeve that Tiberius had given order to his mother to poison Augustus then his very being far off from Rome at the time of his death an invention followed by all those who by such meanes have taken away the life of great personages So did Piso after he had as is said poysoned Germanicus so did Lodowick Sforza who knowing that his Nephew had taken poyson and could not long be living he would not stay in Milan but went to Piacenza to the King of France The cause as I thinke why they do so is to the end the World may not suspect they had any hand in their deaths and although they cannot but thinke that men of understanding will suspect them the more yet this is nothing to the Prince who seeks but to a voyd the heat of the people who without any judgment are carried through love or hatred to doe such things as men of judgement would never doe Tiberius was then in Slavonia when his mother sent him word of Augustus his sicknesse who as may be thought was dead before Tiberius came to Nola yet he oftentimes gave forth he had good
from hearing metaphors finding the meaning of him that useth them But because Tacitus in saying that his Annals have little pleasure in them Caeterum ut profutura it a minimum oblectationis afferunt shewes to be contrary to this any opinion It is therefore to be knowne that for as much as concernes the present there may two kinds of pleasure be taken from a thing one of the senses another of the understanding as we may say in Musicke there are two pleasures may be taken one from the goodnesse of the voyces that sing another from the goodnesse of the songs that are sing the first is taken by the sense of hearing whereof the sound is object the second is taken by the understanding which finding the Composers cuming in making of Descants and helping of discords takes great delight The first pleasure is common to all that have eares the second of such onely as understand it The like happens also in painting where one kind of pleasure is taken from the daintinesse of the colours and the beauty of the picture and another that is taken from the due placing of the parts and resemblance of the Muasbles and of this the pleasure is so much the greater in that it cannot be taken but by one of understanding who therefore takes delight in anothers cunning because by it be discovers his owne Thus when Tacitus saith that his Annals are little pleasing he meanes in the pleasure which is taken by the sense and this appeares plainely by the words he addes where giving the reason why other Histories are more pleasing then this he saith Nam situs Gentium varietates Praeliorum Clari Ducum exitus retinent ac redintegrant legentium animos This difference of pleasure Seneca expressed when he said that Virgill affords one kind of pleasure being read by a Humanist and another being read by a Philosopher I conclude then that Tacitus is an Authour exceeding pleasing specially to those who studying the Histories with understanding little care whether the Latin be as good as that of Caesar. It remaines to advertise the Reader of these my Discourses that finding Hebrew or Greeke Texts cited in Latin he may be pleased to conceive I did it to avoyd cumbring the Leaves with allegations seeing if they had been brought in the foresaid Tongues they must have been againe translated for their sakes that understand not those Tongues I should I know have done more conformable to custome if I had cited them in Italian rather then in Latin but this also I avoyded that I might not take away the force of sense which the words beare in that Language Lastly I will not stand to contest with those who have a custome to be alwaies blaming because he that shall deale so with these my weake Discourses will find himselfe much deceived in his opinion for wherein he thinks to differ from me he will directly agree with me seeing I have printed them to no other end but to make my selse known a servant of the Serenissimo the Grand Duke who out of his benigne nature will be pleased to accept that little which a servant is able to present unto him Withall I advertise that to blame a Book may be the work of understanding men but to blame the Authors of Books the work of none but malignant men That I leave to every mans liberty This I conceive he deserves not that is not conceited of his owne wisdome The Contents of the severall DISCOVRSES Discourse the first OF the divers forms of government that Rome had and how it happens that Cities for the most part have their beginnings under Kings rather then under any other forme of government p. 1 Discourse second How the City of Rome came from being governed by Kings to be a free State and the difference is betweene a beginning and a cause p. 8 Discourse third A Parallell between the conspiracy of Marcus Brutus against Caesar and that of Lucius Brutus against Tarquin whereby we may see why the one brought in liberty and the other tyranny p. 21 Discourse fourth That the power of a few cannot consist in any number better then three p. 25 Discourse fifth Of what kind of discord the Authour intends to speake p. 28 Discourse sixth Whether an externall warre with the enemies of the faith be the best meanes to hinder discords among Christians p. 30 Discourse seventh What is the fittest time to proceed in discords with the enemies of the faith p. 45 Discourse eighth What discords conserve States and what corrupt them p. 60 Discourse ninth Of concordant discord and how it ought to be mannaged for the good of Cities p. 61 Discourse tenth How hard and dangerous a matter it is to write Histories when the easiest time is to finde writers and which of them deserve most credit p. 67 Discourse eleventh From whence flattery proceeds how many kinds there are of it and which of them is hurtfull to a City p. 81 Discourse twelfth What things holpe Augustus to the Empire and what meanes he used to maintaine it p. 91 Discourse thirteenth How Princes may get the peoples love how a private man ought to make use of the peoples favour and what part it hath in bestowing the Empire p. 99 Discourse fourteenth How the Donatives which are given to Souldiers are profitable to raise a man and to maintaine him in the Empire and when it is that Military discipline is corrupted by them p. 107 Discourse fifteenth How much it imports a Prince for getting the peoples love to maintaine plenty by what meanes scarcity happens and how it may be helpt and how a Prince may make use of it p. 113 Discourse sixteenth What kind of ease it is that Tacitus speakes of and how it may be reconciled with some places in other Authours p. 121 Discourse seventeenth That Cities subject to another City better like the government of a King than of a Commonwealth and that every City would gladly have their Lord to live amongst them p. 125 Discourse eighteenth What meanes a Prince may use with safety to set them in a way that are to succeed them in the government p. 137 Discourse nineteenth That old men are apt to be carried away by women and of what age a Prince should be p. 145 Discourse twentieth That to maintaine and suffer Magistrates to continue although without authority is a matter of great moment p. 155 Discourse twenty one That Tiberius was part good and part bad how it happened that he fell not into dangers as Nero did Whether it be good to be brought up in the Princes house and finally how their secret vices may be knowne p. 159 Discourse twenty two How much it imports a Prince to be chaste p. 168 Discourse twenty three How and when the government of women is odious p. 171 Discourse twenty foure That at one and the same time to make knowne the death of the Prince and the assumption of the successour is
the Senat be at concord with the people then no doubt the Election will be excellent as being made by a number of understanding men and therefore we see that Numa Pompilius who was thus chosen proved one of the best Kings the Romans ever had there concurring in his Election the choyce of the Senat and consent of the people It is true such Election is hardly made because few would like to 〈◊〉 another to that degree which hee aymes at himselfe And if any man should object that it proves well in Venice where the Election of their Duke is alwayes made by the Senat I would answer taking no notice of the kind of that Dignity that this happens because that Election is made by most understanding men who ayme more at the Common-wealths profit then at their own But if the Senat or Magistrate that is to make the Election be it selfe corrupt wee may then expect a choyce betweene good and bad because a very good one they would not choose for feare least out of his precisenesse he should reforme many things to the undoing of the wicked and a very bad one they would not choose for feare least hee should be the undoing of the Kingdome To which purpose are those words of Tacitus Exoptimis periculum sibi expessimis dedecus publicum metuebat I here advertise that neither the Reasons alleadged at first nor yet this last are in any opposition to the Kingdomes that are at this day whereof the greatest part goes by succession for there is great difference betweene speaking of times in which were Tyrants and times in which are civill Princes who have so many Counsells so many orders and Consultations that it is impossible but they must governe well No man therefore ought to take my Discourse as a taxing of Princes in these times but whether it be Election or succession I hold that way alwayes to be best in a City which hath formerly beene used Lastly for resolution of those Arguments which in the beginning were brought against Election Those against succession being tacitely already answered I say that either wee speake of choosing a private man to bee Prince and then those difficulties will bein force or else we speake of choosing one who is already mounted to the height of a Prince and then those difficulties will be laid asseepe and this we see notably observed at this day in places of Election as in creation of the Pope which can never fall upon a person that is not first a Cardinall It being fit that one should first come out from Equality before he should rise to the highest degree of superiority and that he should first be taken into part of affaires who is to come afterward to governe the whole So likewise in Election of the Emperours we see alwayes Princes of such blood to be chosen that comming to the Empyre they seeme not to come to any new greatnesse Tiberius therefore to come to our purpose having beene chosen by Augustus that was a Tyrant had reason to have it beleeved that he was chosen by the Senat rather then by old Augustus Comparatione deterrima or per 〈◊〉 ambitum but if Augustus had beene an excellent King I beleeve hee would then have rather had it thought that he was chosen by the Prince So did Salomon who comming to the Crowne after David would have it knowne that hee was made successour by his father Vt notum fiat universo Populo Regem eum a Patre Declaratum Nihil primo Senatus die agi passus nisi de supremis Augusti cujus Testamentum inlatum per virgines Vestae Tiberium Liviam haeredes habuit Livia in familiam Juliam Nomenque Augustae adsumebatur In spem secundam Nepotes Pronepotesque Tertio gradu Primores Civitatis Scripserat plerosque invisos sibi sed Jactantia gloriaque ad Posteros Whether Tiberius did ill in causing Augustus his will to bee read and why Augustus in the third place made many his heires that were his Enemies The foure and thirtieth discourse ONe of the first things that Tiberius did in the Senat was the causing Augustus his will to be read where Livia and himselfe were made his heires in the first place In the second his Nephewes and Grand-children In the third place the principall men of the City many of whom were known to be his enemies In this there are two things wee may wonder at one that Tiberius would have this will of Augustus to bee read openly the other that Augustus had set many in his will that were his Enemies Beginning with the first I say that Tiberius not belonging to Augustus by any respect of blood but onely by being his Sonne in law to be preferd by Augustus will before Agrippa Posthumus that was his Nephew to whom by Right of kinred the Empyre belonged It seemes that in true politick consideration Tiberius did ill to cause a thing so odious to be published which he ought rather if it had beene possible to have hidden as was seene in Claudius who by his Testament making his Sonne in Law Nero his heire and preferring him before Britannicus his true and legitimate Sonne Agrippina a suttle woman after the death of Claudius would not suffer his will to be read least the people should mutiny to see a sonne in Law preferd before a Sonne I estamentum tamen haud recitatum Ne antepositus filio privignus Injuria Jnvidia animos vulgiturbaret By this example related by the same Tacitus we must necessarily say that one of them either Agrippina or Tiberius did ill or else we must bee driven to shew some difference betweene these two cases which may be and is in many things First because Britannicus was Claudius his Sonne and Agrippa Augustus his Nephew but by the line of women Secondly because Agrippa was farre off and perhaps dead when Augustus his will was read Britannicus was living and present there in Rome and so by his presence might have given occasion to the people of making in 〈◊〉 which Tiberius needed not to feare and lastly Tiberius was a man of ripe age experienced in the warres and conversant in affaires of state where Nero was but a child had hitherto given no proofe of himselfe at all and besides it caused much lesse envy to see a Sonne in Law of so excellent qualities preferred before a Nephew rude and foolish and full of Indignation then it would have done to see a rude Sonne in Law preferd before a Sonne of so great expectation and because to be made heire by the former Prince is a great helpe for being accepted by the Subjects as by the Example of Salomon and others I have elsewhere shewed Tiberius knowing that those things would be no trouble to him which to Nero would have been pernicious he therefore did very wisely and with great Judgement to make it knowne to all men that Augustus by his will had left him his heire The other