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A07696 A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535. 1553 (1553) STC 18082; ESTC S112882 216,983 350

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saye yet hadde you loste the frute And if it be peraduenture false and my self deceiued therin thā whyle I should wene that it liked you to you should haue confermed me in my foly For in good fayth Cosin suche an olde foole am I that thys thyng in the perswading wherof vnto you I had went I had quit me wel and when I haue al done appeareth to your mind but a trif●e and a sophisticall fantasy my self haue so many yeres takē for so very substauncyall trueth that as yet my mynde cannot geue me to thynke it any other wherefore lest I playe as the frenche prieste played that had so long vsed to say Dominus with the seconde sillable long at the last he thought it must nedes be so and was ashamed to saye it short to th entent that you may the better perceiue me or I the better my selfe we shall here betwene vs a litle more considre the thyng and hardely spet well on your handes and take good holde and geue it not ouer agaynste youre owne mynde for than were we neuer the nere ☞ ¶ Vincent Naye by my trueth vncle that entended I not nor no thyng did yet since we beganne and that maye you wel perceiue by some thynges which without any greate cause saue for the farther satisfaccion of myne own mynd I repeted and debated agayne Anthony That guise Cosin holde on hardely styll for in this matter I purpose to geue ouer mi part except I make your selfe perceiue both that euery mā vniuersally is a very prisoner in very prieson plainly without ani sophisticacion at al that there is also no prince liuing vpon earth but he is in worse case prisoner by this generall imprisonment that I speake of than is many a lewde simple wretche by the speciall prisonment that you speake of and ouer thys that in this generall imprisonment that I speake of mē are for the time that they be therin so sore handled and so hardely and in such painful wyse that mens hertes haue with reasō great cause as sore to abhorre this hard handlyng that is in this imprisonmēt as the other that is in that ¶ Vincent By my trueth vncle these thinges would I faine see wel proued ¶ Anthony Tel me thā Cosin by your trueth if there were a mā attainted of treasō or of felony after iudgement geuen of his death that it were determined that he should dye onely the time of his exequcion delayed tyl the kinges farther pleasure knowen and he therupon deliuered vnto certayne kepers and put vp in a sure place oute of whiche he could not scape were thys man a prisoner or no ¶ Vincent This man ꝙ he ye mary that he were in very dede if euer any man were● ¶ A●thony But nowe what if for the tyme that were meane betwene his attender and his exequcion he were so fauourably handled that he were suffred to doe what he woulde as he was whyle he was abrode and to haue the vse of hys landes and hys goodes and his wyfe and his children lycence to be with hym and his frendes leaue at liberty to resort vnto hym and his seruauntes not forbodden to abide aboute him adde yet therunto that the place were a great castell royall with parkes and other pleasures therin a very great circuite about yea adde yet and ye will that he were suffered to goe and ryde also both when he would and whither he would only this one pointe alway prouided and foresene that he should euer be surely sene to and safely kepte from scaping so that toke he neuer so muche of his own minde in the meane while all other waies saue scaping yet he wel knew that scape he could not and that when he were called for to exequciō and to death he should now Cosin vincent what woulde you cal this man● a prisoner because he is kept for exequcion or no prisoner beecause he is in the meane whyle so fauourably hādled suffered to doe al that he would saue scape and I bydde you not here be hastie in your aunswere but aduise it well that you graunte no suche thyng in haste as you would after misselike by laysor and thinke your selfe deceyued Vincent Nay by my trueth vncle this thing nedeth no s●udy in my mynde but that for al this fauour shewed him and all hys libertie lent hym yet being condemned to death and beyng therfore kept wi●h such sure watche layd vpon him that he cannot scape he is all that while a verye playne prisoner styll ¶ Antony In good fayth Cosin me thinketh you saye very true but thē one thyng muste I yet desire you Cosin to tell me a litle farther If there were an other laid in prisō for a fraye and thorowe the Iailors displeasure were bolted and fettered and layd in a low dongeon in the stockes where he might hap to lie peraduenture a while abide in the meane season some pain but no daunger of death at al but that out again he should come wel inough whither of these two priesoners stode in worse case he that hath all this fauour or he that is thus hardely handeled Vincent By our lady vncle I wene the most parte of men if they should nedes choose had le●er be suche prisoners in euery poynt as he that so sorely lyeth in the stockes then in euery poynt such as he that at suche libertie walketh aboute the pa●ke Antony Considre thā Cosin whither this thing seme any sophestry to you that I shal shew you nowe For it shal be such as semeth in good fayth substauncially true to me and if it so happe that you thinke otherwyse I will bee very glad to perceiue whiche of vs both is beg●iled For it semeth to me Cosin first that euery mā coming into thys world here vpon earth as he is created by God so cometh he hither by the prouidence of god is this any sophestrye first or not ¶ Vincent Naye verely this is very substanciall trueth ¶ Anto●y Now take I this also for veri trueth in my mind that there cometh no man nor woman hither into th earth bu● that e●e euer they come into the world out of the mothers wombe god condemneth them vnto death by his own sentence and iudgement for the original sinne that they bring with them contracted in the corrupted stocke of our forefather Adam is this thinke you Cosin verely true or not Vincent This is vncle very true in dede Antony Thā semeth this true farther vnto me that god hath put euery man here vpō th earth vnder so sure and vnder so safe kepyng that of al the whole people lyuing in this wide world there is neither mā womā nor child would they neuer so farre wander about and seke it that possibly can fynde any way whereby thei may scape frō death is this Cosin a fond imagined fātasy or is it very trueth in dede Vincent Naye this is no imaginacion vncle but
home there seuer the couples the kīred asūder euery one farre frō other some kept in thraldome and some kept in prison some for a triumphe tormēted and killed in his presence Then sende his people hither and his false fayth therwith so that such as here are remayne styll shall eyther bothe lese al and be lost too or forced to forsake the faythe of oure Sauior Christe and fal to the sect of Machomette And yet which we more feare then all the remnant no smalle part of oure owne folke that dwel euen here aboute vs are as we feare falling to him or alreadye confedered with him whych if it so bee shal happelye keepe thys quarter frō the Turkes incursion but then shall they that tourne to hys lawe leaue all theyr neighbours nothynge but shall haue oure good geuen them and oure bodyes bothe but if we tourne as they do and forsake oure Sauioure to and then for there is no borne Turke so cruel to Christen folke as is the false Christen that falleth from the fayth wee shall stande in perell if wee parseuer in the trueth to bee more hardely handled and dye more cruel death by oure owne countrey men at home then if we were taken hence and caried into Turkye● These fearefull heapes of perell lye so heauy at our heartes while we wote not into which we shal fortune to fal therfore feare al the worst that as our Sauior prophe●ied of the people of Ierusalē many wish among vs already before the perill come that the mountaines would ouerwhelme thē or the valeis open swalow them vp couer thē Therfore good vncle against these horrible feares of these terrible tribulacions of which ●ome ye wote wel out house already hath the rēnant stand in drede of geue vs while god lēdeth you vs such plēty of your cōfortable coūsel as I may write kepe with vs to stay vs when god shal cal you hence ☞ Antony Ah my good Cosin this is an heauy hering and lykewyse as we that dwel here in this part feare that thyng sore now which fewe yeres passed feared it not at al so doubt I that ere it long be they shal feare it as muche that thinke themselfe nowe very sure because thei dwel farther of Grece feared not the Turke whē that I was borne within a while after y● who le Empire was his The gret Sowdō of Sirry thought himselfe more than his matche long since you were borne hath he that Empire to Than● hath he taken Belgrade the fortres of this realme and since hath he des●royed our noble young goodly king And now striue there twain for vs our lord send the grace that the thyrde dog cary not awaie the bone frō thē both What should I speake of the noble strong citie of the Rhodes the winning wherof he counted as a victorie against the whole corps of christendom sith al christendom was not able to defend that strong town against him howbeit if the princes of christendome euerye where aboute woulde where as nede was haue set to their handes in tyme the Turke had neuer taken anie one place of al those places but partly dissencions fallen among our selfe partly that no mā careth what harme other folke fele but eche part suffreth other to shift for it self The Turke is in few yeres wonderfully ēcreased christēdom on the other side very sore decayed and al this worketh our wickednes with which god is not cōtent But now where as you desire of me some plētie of cōfortable thinges which ye may put in remēbrance comfort therwith your company verely in the rehersing heaping of your manifold feares my self begā to fele that there should much nede against so many troubles● many cōfortable coūsels For surely a litle before your cōming as I deuised with my selfe vpon the Turkes cōming it hapned my mind to fal sodeinly frō that into the deuising vpon my own departing wherin albeit that I fully put my trust hope to be a saued soule by the great mercy of god yet sith no man is here so sure that withoute reuelacion may cleane stand out of drede I bethought me also vpon the paine of hell And after I bethought me then vpon the Turke again And first me thought his terrour nothing whē I compared with it the ioyful hope of heauen Than compared I it on the other side with the feareful drede of hell and therm casting in my mynd those terrible deue●ish tormentors with the depe cōsideracion of that furious endles fyre● me thought that if the Turke with his whole host al his trumpets tymbrels to wer to kil me in my bed cōming to my chāber dore in respecte of the other reckening I regarde him not a ryshe And yet when I nowe heard youre lamentable wordes laying forth as it wer present before my face that heape of heauy sorowful tribulaciō that beside those that are already fallen are in shorte space lyke to folow I waxed therwith miself sodēly somewhat aflighte And therfore I wel alow your request in this behalf y● would haue s●ore of comforte afore hande ready by you to resorte too and to laye vp in your hearte as a triacle agaynst the poyson of al desperate dreade that might ryse of occasion of sore tribulacion And herein shall I bee glad as my poore wit wil serue me to cal to mind with you such thīges as I before haue red heard or thought vpō that may conueniently serue vs to this purpose ¶ The first Chapter That the comfortes deuised by the olde paynem Philosophers vvere vnsufficient and the cause vvherefore FIrst shal you good Cosin vnderstand thys that the natural wise men of this worlde the olde morall Philosophers laboured muche in this matter many natural reasōs haue they written wherby they myght encorage mē to set litle by such goodes or such hurtes eyther the goyng or the cōmyng wherof are the matter the cause of tribulaciō as are goodes of fortune riches fauor frendes fame worldly worship such other thinges or of the bodie as beawty strēgth agilite quicknes and health These thinges ye wote wel cōmyng to vs are matter of worldly welth and takē frō vs by fortune or by force or by feare of th● losyng bee matter of aduersite and tribulacyon● For tribulacyon semeth generallye to signifye nothing els but some kind of grief either paine of the body or heauynes of the mind Now the body not to fele that if feleth al the wit in the world can not bring about but that the minde should not be grieued neither with the paine that the body feleth nor with occasions of heauines offered geuen vnto the soule it self Thys thyng laboured the Philosophers very much about and many goodly sayinges haue thei toward the strēgth coūfort against tribulacion excityng men to the full contempte of all worldly losse and dispising of sycknes and al bodelye griefe paynefull
lefte vnmade Antony Howe happed it as it happeth Cosin that many mo be left vnmade as well as it and within a lytle as good as it to bothe here in other countreyes some tyme some worse made in theyr stede But as they saie the let of that law was the Quenes grace god forgeue her soule it was y● greatest thinge I wene good Ladye that she had to answere for when she dyed for surely saue for the one thinge she was a full blessed woman But letting now that lawe passe this temptaciō in procuringe her owne death was vnto this carpenters wyfe no tribulaciō at all as farre as euer men coulde perceyue for it lyked her well to thinke theron and she euen longed therfore And therfore if she had before tolde you or me her mynde and that she woulde brynge it so fayne to passe we coulde haue had no occacion to comforte her as one that were in tribulacion but mary counsayle her as I tolde you before we well might to refrayne and amende that deuelyshe mynde of hyrs ☞ Vincent Uerely that is trueth but suche as are well wylling to doe any purpose that is so shamefull wyll neuer tell theyr minde to no bodye for very shame ☞ Antony Some will not in dede yet are theyr some agayn that be theyr entent neuer so shamefull fynde some yet whome theyr hearte serueth them to make of theyr counsayle therin Some of my folke here can tel you that no longer ago than euen yesterdaye one that came out of Uienna shewed vs amonge other talking that a riche widowe but I forgot to aske him where it happed hauing all her lyfe an high proude minde and a fell as those two verteues are wonte alway to kepe cōpany together was at debate with an other neighbour of hers in the towne on a time she made of her counsayle a poore neighbour of hers whō she thought for money she might enduce to folowe her mynde with him secretly she brake and offred him .x. Duccattes for his labour to doe so muche for her as come in a morninge early to her house with an axe vnknowen pryuelye to stryke of her head and when he had so done than conuaye the blody axe into the house of him with whom she was at debate in some suche maner of wyse as it might be thought that he had murdered her of malyce than she thought she shoulde be taken for a martyr And yet had she farther deuysed that an other sūme of money should after be sent to Rome and that there should be meanes made to the Pope that she might in all hast be canonyzed This poore man promysed but entended not to perfourme it howebeit when he deferred it she prouyded the axe her selfe and he appoynted with her the morning when he shoulde come But thā sette he suche other folke as he would shoulde knowe her frantique fantasie in such place appoynted as they might wel heare her and him talke together And after that he had talked with her therof what he woulde so muche as he thought was ynoughe he made her lye downe toke vp the axe in his one hand with the other hande he felte the edge and founde a faulte that it was not sharpe and that therfore he woulde in no wise doe it tyll that he had ground it sharper he coulde not els he sayed for pietye it would put her to so muche payne so full sore agaynst her wyll for that tyme she kept her head styll But because she woulde not suffer any moe to deceyue her so and fode her forthe with delayes ere it was very long after she hanged her selfe with her owne handes ☞ Vincent Forsoothe here was a tragycall story wherof I neuer heard the lyke ☞ Antony Forsoothe the partye that tolde it me sware that he knewe it for a trueth And hym selfe is I promyse you suche as I reckon for ryght honest of substancyall trueth Nowe here she le●ted not as shameful a mind as she had to make one of her counsaile yet and yet as I remembre an other to whom she trusted with the money that shoulde procure her canonyzacyō And here I wote well that her temptacion came not of feare but of high malyce pryde But than was she so glad in the pleasant deuise therof that as I shewed you she toke it for no tribulacion but for a maruelous mery mortall temptacion And therfore comfortinge of her coulde haue no place but if men should any thing geue ●er tow●rd her helpe it must haue bene as I tolde you good counsayle and therfore as I sayde this kynde of temptacion to a mannes owne destrucciō which reqireth counsayle is out of trybulacion was out of our matter that is to wete of comforte in trybulacion The .xvi. Chapter Of him that vvere moued to kyll him selfe by illusion of the Deuill vvhich he reckoned for a reuel●cion BUt lest you might reiecte both those samples weninge they were but fayned tales I shal but put you in remembraunce of one which I reckō your selfe haue read in the collacions of Cassianus if you haue not there maye you soone fynde it for my selfe haue halfe forgotten the thinge it is so longe since I read it but thus muche I remembre that he telleth of one there that was all his dayes a very holy mā in his liuing amonge the other verteous monkes Anckres that lyued in wyldernes was maruelouslye muche estemed sauing that some were not all out of feare of him lest his reuelacions wherof he tolde many by him selfe woulde proue illusions of the deuyll and so proued it after in dede for the man was by the deuylles subtyll suggestions brought into suche an high spiry●uall pryde that in conclusion the deuyll brought him to that horrible poynte that he made him to kyll him selfe as farre as my mynde geueth me nowe without newe sight of y● boke be brought him to it hy this perswasiō that he made him beleue it was gods will he shoulde so doe that thereby should he goe strayght to heauen And than if it were by that perswasion with which he tooke very greate comforte in his owne mynde him selfe was it then as I sayde out of our case here and neded not comforte but counsayle agaynste geuing credence to the deuelles perswasyon But mary if he made him fyrste perceyue howe he had been deluded thā tempted him to his owne death by shame dyspayre than was it in our matter loe for thā was his temptacion fallen down from pryde to pusyllanimitie was waxen that kynde of the nightes feare that I spake of wherin a good parte of the counsayle that were to be geuen him shoulde haue nede to stand in good comfortyng for than was he brought to ryght sore tribulacion but as I was aboute to tell you strength of heart and courage is there none therin not onely for that very strength as it hath the name
The consideracion of the painefull death of Christe is sufficient to make vs content to suffre painefull death for his sake SUrely Cosin as I sayd before in the bearing the losse of worldly goodes in suffering of captiuitie thraldome imprisonmēt and in the glad sustaining of worldly shame that if we woulde in al those pointes depely ponder the sample of our sauiour hym selfe it were of it selfe alone sufficient to encourage euerye kinde Christen man and womā to refuse none of al those calamities for his sake● So saye I nowe for paineful death also that if we could and woulde wyth dewe compassion conceyue in our mindes a righte imaginacion and remembraunce of Christes bitter paynful passion of the many sore bloudy strokes that the cruel tormētors wyth Roddes and whippes gaue him vpō euery part of his holye tender bodye the scorneful crowne of sharpe thornes beaten doune vpon hys holye head so s●rayte and so depe that on euerye parte hys blessed bloude issued out and streamed doune his louely limmes drawen and stretched out vpō the crosse to the intollerable paine of hys forbeaten sore beaten vaines senewes newe feling with the crewel stretching and straining payne farre passing any crampe in euey parte of hys blessed bodye at once Than the great longe nayles crewe●ly dryuen wyth hammers thorowe his holy handes and feete and in this horrible paine lifte vp let hang with y● paice of al his body bearing doune vpō the painefull wounded places so greuously perced wyth nailes and in such torment without pitie but not without many dispightes suffred to be ●ined pained the space of more than three long houres til him selfe willingly gaue vp vnto hys father hys holye soule After whych yet to shewe the mightines of theyr malice after his holy soule departed persed his holy heart with a sharpe speare at which issued ●ut the holy bloud water wherof his holy sacramētes haue inestimable secrete strength if we would I say remember these thinges in such wise as would god we would I verely thinke suppose y● the consideracion of his incōparable kindnes coulde not in such wise faile to enflame our kaye cold heartes set them on fyre in hys loue that we shoulde find our ●elfe not onely conte●te but also glad and desirous to suffre death for his sake that so meruelous louinglye letted not to sustaine so farre passing painefull deathe for oures Woulde GOD we woulde here to the shame of oure colde affeccion agayne towarde God for suche ferue●te loue and inestimable kyndnes of GOD towarde vs would god we woulde I saye but cōsider what hoate affeccion many of these fleshely louers haue borne and daylye doe beare to those vpon whome they dote Howe many of them haue not letted to ieoparde their liues and howe many haue willingely loste theyr liues in dede wythout eyther great kindnes shewed them before and afterwarde you wote well they coulde nothynge wynne but ●uen that it contented and satysfied theyr mynde y● by theyr deathe theyr louer should clerely se how faithfully they loued The deli●e wherof imprinted in their fātasie not asswaged onely but counterpaised also they thought al their paine Of these affecciōs with the woonderful dolorous effectes folowing theron not onely old writtē stories but ouer that I thinke in euery countrey christen heathen both experience geueth vs proofe inough And is it not thā a wonderful shame for vs for y● drede of tēporal death to forsake our sauiour that willingly suffred so painefull death rather thā he woulde forsake vs considering that he shal for our suffering● so highly reward vs with euerlasting welth Oh if he that is content to die for her loue of whome he looketh after for no reward yet by hys death goeth frō her might by his death be sure to come to her euer after in delite pleasure to dwell wyth her Such a louer woulde not let here to dye for her twise and howe cold louers be we thā vn●o god if ra●her thā dye for hym once we wil refuse him and forsake him for euer that bothe died for vs before hath al●o prouided that if we die here for hym we shall in heauen euerlastingly both liue also raigne with him For as Saint Paule saith if we suffer with hym we shall raigne with hym Howe many Romaines howe many noble courages of other sundry coūtreies haue willingly geuen their owne liues and suffred greate deadlye paines very painfull deathes for theyr countreyes● the respecte of winning by theyr deathes the onely reward of worldly renowne fame And should we thā shrinke to suffer as muche for eternall honoure in heauen and euerlasting glorye The deuil hath some also so obstinate heretyques● that endure wit●ingly painefull death for vaine glorye is it not than more then shame that Christ shall ●ee his catholyques forsake hys fayth rather than suffer the same for heauen and very glorye● Would god as I many times haue said that the remēbraunce of Christes kindnes in suffring his passiō for vs the consideracion of hell that we shoulde fall in by forsaking of him the ioyful meditacion of eternall lyfe in heauen that we shal winne with this shorte temporall death paciently taken for him had so depe a place in our brest as reason would they should and as if we would do our deuor toward it and labor for it and pray therfore I verely thinke they should for then shoulde thei so take vp our mind● and rauish it al an other way that as a man hur● in a fraye feleth not sometime hys wound nor yet is not ware therof til his mind fal more theron so farforth that sometime an other man sheweth him that he hath lost an hand before he perceiue it himself So the mind rauished in the thinking depelye of those other thinges Christes death hell and heauē wer likely to minish and put away of oure painfull deathe foure partes of the feling ether of the feare or of the paine For of this am I very sure if we had the fiftienth part of the loue to Christ that he hath had and hath vnto vs al the pain of this Turkes persecucion could not kepe vs frō him but that there would be at this daye as mani martirs here in Hungarie as haue be afore in other countreyes of old And of this poynte put I no doubt● but that if the Turke stode euen here with al his whole a●mie about him and euery of them wer ready at oure hand with all the terrible tormentes that they could ymagine and but if we would forsake the faith wer settyng their tormentes to vs and to the encrease of our ●er●or fell al at once in a shoute with trumpets tabrets and tembrels al blowē vp at once and al theyr gunnes let goe therwith to make vs a feareful noyse if there should sodeinly than on the other side the groūde quake and riue a twayn and the deuils rise oute of