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A56321 The declaration of John Pym Esquire upon the whole matter of the charge of high treason against Thomas Earle of Strafford, April 12, 1641 with An argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high treason of the said Earle of Strafford, before a committee of both Houses of Parliament, in Westminster Hall by Mr. St. Iohn His Majesties solicitor Generall, on Thursday, April 29, 1641 / both published by order of the Commons House. Pym, John, 1584-1643.; St. John, Oliver, 1598?-1673. Argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high-treason of Thomas Earle of Strafford. 1641 (1641) Wing P4262; ESTC R182279 46,678 116

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the fourth he was outlawed by the stay of the outlawry so long it seemes the Judges had well advised before whether it were Treason or not At the same Session Thomas Heber was indited of Treason for these words That the last Parliament was the most simple and insufficient Parliament that ever had beene in England That the King was gone to live in Kent because that for the present hee had not the love of the Citizens of London nor should hee have it for the future That if the Bishop of Bath and Wells were dead the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury being Cardinall of England would immediately loose his head This Inditement was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity Tearme in the eighteenth yeare of Edward the fourth Afterwards there came a Privy Scale to the Iudges to respit the proceedings which as it should seeme was to the intent the Iudges might advise of the Case for afterwards he is outlawed of high-Treason upon this inditement These words were thought sufficient evidence to prove these severall Inditements That they were spoken to with draw the peoples affection from the King to excite them against him to cause risings against him by the people in morē destructions of the King Your Lordships are pleased to consider that in all these Cases the Treason was for words only words by private persons and in amore private manner but once spoken and no more only amongst the people to excite them against the King My Lords here are words Counsells more then words and actions too not only to disaffect the people to the King but the King likewise towards the people not once but often not in private but in places most publique not by a private person but by a Counsellor of State a Lord Leivetenant a Lord President a Lord Deputie of Ireland 1. To his Majesty That the Parliament had denied to supply him a slander upon all the Commons of England in their affections to the King and Kingdome in refusing to yeeld timely supply for the necessities of the King and Kingdome 2. From thence that the King was loose and absolved from rules of governement and was to doe every thing that power would admit My Lords more cannot be said they cannot be aggravated whatever I should say would be in diminution Thence You have an Army in Ireland you may imploy to reduce this Kingdome To counsell a King not to love his people is very unnaturall it goes higher to hate them to malice them in his heart the highest expressions of malice to destroy them by war These coales they were cast upon his Majesty they were blowne they could not kindle in that brest Thence my Lords having done the utmost to the King he goes to the people At York the Country being met together for Justice at the open Assizes upon the Bench he tells them speaking of the Justices of the Peace that they were all for Law nothing but Law but they should find that the Kings little finger should be heavier then the loines of the Law They shall find my Lords who speaks this to the people a Privie Counsellor this must be either to traduce his Majesty to the people as spoken from him or from himselfe who was Lord Leivetenant of the County and President intrusted with the forces and Justice of those parts that he would imploy both this way add my Lords to his words there the exercising of an arbitrary and vast Jurisdiction before he had so much as Instructions or colour of warrant Thence we carry him into Ireland there he represented by his place the sacred person of his Majesty 1. There at Dublyn the principall Citty of that Kingdome whether the Subjects of that Country came for Justice in an Assembly of Peeres and others of greatest ranke upon occasion of a Speech of the Recorder of that Citty touching their Franchises and Legall Rights he tells them that Ireland was a Conquered Nation and that the King might do with them what he pleased 2. Not long after in the Parliament 10. Car. in the Chaire of State in full Parliament againe That they were a conquered Nation and that they were to expect Lawes as from a Conqueror before the King might do with them what he would now They were to expect it that he would put this power of a Conqueror in execution The Circumstances are very considerable in full Parliament from himselfe in Cathedrâ to the representative body of the whole Kingdome The occasion adds much when they desire the benefit of the Lawes and that their Causes and Suites might be determined according to Law and not by himselfe at his will and pleasure upon paper Petitions 3. Upon like occasion of pressing the Lawes and Statutes That he would make an Act of counsell board in that Kingdome as binding as an Act of Parliament 4. He made his words good by his actions assumed and exercised a boundlesse and lawlesse Jurisdiction over the lives persons and estates of his Majesties Subjects procured judgement of death against a Peere of that Realme commanded another to be hanged this was accordingly executed both in times of high Peace without any processe or colour of Law 5. By force for a long time he seised the yarne and flax of the Subjects to the starving and undoing of many thousands besides the Tobacco businesse and many Monopolies and unlawfull Taxes forced a new Oath not to dispute his Majesties royall commands determined mens estates at his owne will and pleasure upon paper Petititions to himselfe forced Obedience to these not only by Fines and Imprisonment but likewise by the Army sessed Souldiers upon the refusers in a hostile manner 6. Was an Incendiary of the warre between the two Kingdomes of England and Scotland My Lords we shall leave it to your Lordships Judgements whether these words Counsells and Actions would not have been a sufficient Evidence to have proved an Inditement drawne up against him as those before mentioned and many others are That they were spoken and done to the intent to withdraw the Kings heart from the people and the affections of the people from the King that they might leave the King and afterwards rise up against him to the destruction of the King if so here is a compassing of the Kings death within the words of the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third and that warranted by many former judgements My Lords I have now done with the three The 4. Generall Head Treasons within the Statute of the five and twentieth of Edward the third I proceed to the fourth upon the Statute of the eighteenth yeare of Henry the sixt Chapter the third in Ireland I shall make bold to read the words to your Lordships That no Lord nor any other of what condition soever he be shall bring or lead hoblers kerves or hooded men nor any other people nor horses to lie on horseback or on foot upon the Kings Subjects without their good
to intend the levying of warre this Case was adjudged before the Parliament The Case was adjudged in Hillary Terme the Parliament began not untill the Aprill following This my Lords is a Case adjudged in point That the practising to levy warre though nothing be done in execution of it is Treason Object It may be objected that in these Cases the conspiring being against the whole Kingdome included the Queene and was a compassing her destruction as wel as of the Kingdomes heere the advise was to the King Answ 1 The Answer is first that the warrant was unknowne to his Majesty that was a machination of warre against the people and Lawes wherein his Majesties person was engaged for protection That the advice was to his Majesty aggravates the offence it was an Attempt not only upon the Kingdome but upon the Sacred Person and his office too himselfe was host is patriae he would have made the Father of it so too nothing more unnaturall more dangerous To offer the King poyson to drink telling him that it is a Cordiall is a compassing of his death The poyson was repelled there was an antidote within the malice of the giver beyond expression The perswading of Forreiners to invade the kingdome holds no proportion with this Machination of warre against the Lawes or kingdome is against the King they cannot be severed My Lords if no actuall warre within the The 3. Generall Head Statute if the counselling of a warre if neither of these single Acts be Treason within the Statute The Commons in the next place have taken it into their consideration what the addition of his other words Counsells and Actions do operate in the Case and have conceived That with this addition all being put together that he is brought within the Statute of 25. Edward 3. The words of the Statute are if any man shall compasse or imagine the death of the King the words are not if any man shall plot or consult the death of the King no my Lords they go further then to such things as are intended immediately directly and determinatively against the life and person of the King they are of a larger extent to compasse is to doe by Circuit to consult or practice another thing directly which being done may necessarily produce this effect However it be in the other Treasons within this Statute yet in this by the very words there is roome left for constructions for necessary Inferences and Consequences What hath beene the judgement and practice of former times concerning these words of compassing the Kings death will appeare to your Lorships by some Cases of attainders upon these words One Owen in King James his time in the 13. yeare of his raigne at Sandwich in Kent spake these words That King James being excommunicated by the Pope may be killed by any man which killing is no murther being asked by those he spake too how he durst maintaine so bloudy an assertion hee answered that the matter was not so heynous as was supposed for the King who is the lesser is concluded by the Pope who is the greater and as a Malefactor being condemned before a Temporall Judge may be delivered over to be Executed so the King standing convicted by the Popes sentence of excommunication may justly be slaughtered without fault for the killing of the King is the execution of the Popes supreame sentence as the other is the execution of the Law for this judgement of High-Treason was given against him and execution done My Lords here is no cleere intent appearing that Owen desired the thing should bee done onely Arguments that it might bee done This is a Compassing there is a cleare Endeavour to corrupt the judgement to take off the bonds of Conscience the greatest security of the Kings life God forbid saith one of better judgement then he That I should stretch out my hand against the Lords annointed no saith he the Lord doth not forbid it you may for these reasons lawfully kill the King He that denies the Title to the Crowne and plots the meanes of setting it upon another head may doe this without any direct or immediate desiring the death of him that then weares it yet this is Treason as was adjudged in 10. Henry 7. in the case of Burton and in the Duke of Norfolkes case 13. Elizabeth This is a compassing of his death for there can no more be two Kings in one Kingdome then two sunnes in the Firmament he that conceives a title counts it worth ventring for though it cost him his life hee that is in possession thinkes it as well worth the keeping John Sparhauke in King Henry the fourths time meeting two men upon the way amongst other talke said that the King was not rightfull King but the Earle of March and that the Pope would grant indulgencies to all that would assist the Earles title and that within halfe a yeare there would be no Liveries nor Conizances of the King that the King had not kept promise with the people but had layed taxes upon them In Easter Tearme in the third yeare of Henry the fourth in the Kings Bench Rot. 12. this adjudged Treason This denying the title with motives though but implyedly of Action against it adjudged Treason this is a compassing the Kings death How this was a compassing the Kings death is declared in the reasons of the judgement That the words were spoken with an intent to withdraw the affections of the people from the King and to excite them against the King that in the end they might rise up against him in mortem destructionem of the King My Lords in this Judgement and others which I shall cite to your Lordships It appeares that it is a compassing the Kings death by words to indeavour to draw the peoples hearts from the King to set discord between the King and them wherby the people should leave the King should rise up against him to the death and destruction of the King The cases that I shall cite prove not onely that this is Treason but what is sufficient evidence to make this good Upon a Commission held the 18. yeare of Ed. 4. in Kent before the Marquesse of Dorset others an Inditement was preferred against Iohn Awater of High-Treason in the forme before mentioned for words which are entred in the enditment sub hâc formâ That he had been servant to the Earle of Warwick that though he were dead the Earle of Oxford was alive and should have the government of part of the Country That Edward whom you call King of England was a false man and had by art and subtilty slain the Earle of Warwick and the Duke of Clarence his brother without any cause who before had beene both of them attainted of High-Treason My Lords this Inditement was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity Tearme in the eighteenth yeare of Edward the fourth and in Easter Tearme in the two and twentieth yeare of Edward
Parliament are onely declarative of the Old Law not introductive of a new as the great Charter of our Liberties the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third of Treasons the Statute of the Prerogative and of late the petition of right If the Law were doubtfull in this Case they conceived the Parliament where the old may be altered and new Lawes made the fittest Iudge to cleare this doubt Secondly my Lords they proceeded this way to out those scruples and delaies which through disuse of proceedings of this nature might have risen in the manner and way of proceeding since the Statute of the first of Henery the fourth the seventeenth Chapter and more fully in the Roll number 144. The proceedings in Parliament have usually beene upon an Inditement first found though in Cases of Treason particularly mentioned in the Statute of the five and twentieth yeare of Edward the third which had not been done in this Case Doubts likewise might rise for Treasons not particularly mentioned in the Statute of 25. Edw. 3. whether the declaratory power of Parliament be taken away and if not taken away in what manner they were to be made and by whom They finde not any Attainders of Treason in Parliament for neare this 200 yeares but by this way of Bill And againe they knew that whatsoever could be done any other way it might be done by this Thirdly in respect of the proofes and depositions that have beene made against him for first although they knew not but that the whole Evidence which hath beene given at the Barre in every part of it is sufficiently comprehended within the Charge yet if therein they should be mistaken if it should prove otherwise use may justly be made of such Evidence in this way of Bill wherein so as Evidence be given in it 's no way requisite that there should have beene any Articles or Charge at all And so in the Case of double Testimony upon the Statute of the first of Edward the sixt whether one direct witnesse with others to Circumstances had been single or double testimony and although single Testimony might be sufficient to satisfie private Consciences yet how farre it would have beene satisfactory in a judiciall way where formes of Law are more to be stood upon was not so cleare whereas in this way of Bill private satisfaction to each mans Conscience is sufficient although no Evidence had beene given in at all My Lords the proceeding by way of Bill it was not to decline your Lordships Iustice in the judiciall way In these Exegencies of the State and Kingdome it was to husband time by silencing those doubts they conceived it the speediest and the furest way My Lords These are in effect the things the Commons tooke into their Consideration in respect of the manner and way of proceeding against the Earle In the next place I am to declare unto your Lordships the things they tooke into their consideration in respect of the matter and merits of the Cause They are comprehended within these 6. heads 1. That there is a Treason within the Statute of 25. E. 3. by Levying of warre upon the matter of the fifteenth Article 2. If not by actuall Levying of warre yet by advising and declaring his intention of warre and that by Savils warrant and the advice of bringing over the Irish Army upon the matter in the 23. Article The intending of a Warre if not within the Clause of Levying Warre in the Statute of 25. E. 3. yet within the first Treason of compassing the death of the King 3. If neither of these two single Acts be within the Statute of 25. E. 3. yet upon putting all together which hath beene proved against him That ther 's a Treason within the first clause of compassing the death of the King Et si non prosunt singula juncta juvant 4. That he hath fessed and laid Souldiers upon the Subjects of Ireland against their will and at their Charge within the Irish Statute of the eighteenth yeare of Henry the sixt That both person and thing are within the Statute That the Statute remaines in force to this day That the Parliament here hath Cognizance of it And that even in the ordinary way of Judicature that if there be a Treason and a Traitor that the want of jurisdiction in the Judicall way may justly be supplied by Bill 5. That his endeavouring to subvert the fundamentall Lawes and Governement of the Realmes of England and Ireland and instead thereof to introduce a tyranicall Governement against Law is Treason by the Common Law That Treasons at the Common Law are not taken away by the Statutes of 25. E. 3. 1. H. 4. c. 10. 1● Mar. c. 1. nor any of them 6. That as this Case stands It 's just and necessary to resort to the Supreame power in Parliament in case all the rest should faile Of these six five of them are Treason within the Compasse of the Lawes already established Three within the Statute of 25 E. 3. One within the Irish Statute the other by the Common Law of England If but any one of these 6. Considerations hould The Commons conceive that upon the whole matter they had good cause to passe the Bill My Lords for the first of levying Warre 1. The Case I shall make bold to read the Case to your Lordships before I speake to it it s thus The Earle did by warrant under his hand and Seal give authority to Robert Savill a Serjeant at Arms and his Deputies to sesse such number of Souldiers horse and foote of the Army in Ireland together with an officer as the Serjeant should thinke fit upon his Majesties Subjects of Ireland against their will This warrant was granted by the Earle to the end to compell the Subjects of Ireland to submit to the unlawfull Summons and orders made by the Earle upon paper Petitions exhibited unto him in case of private Interest betweene party and party This warrant was executed by Savill and his Deputies by sessing of Souldiers both horse and foote upon diverse of the Subjects of Ireland against their will in warre-like manner and at divers times the Souldiers continued upon the parties upon whom they were sessed and wasted their goods untill such time as they had submitted themselves unto those Summons and orders My Lords This is a levying of warre within the statute of 25o. E. 3. The words of the Statute are If any man doe levy warre against our Lord the King in his Realm this is declared to be Treason I shall indeavour in this to make it appeare to your Lordships What shall be a levying of Warre in respect of the motive or cause of it What shall bee said a levying of warre in respect of the Action or thing done And in the third place I shall apply them to the present Case It will bee granted in this of levying of warre That forces may bee raised and likewise used in a
warre-like manner and yet no levying of warre within the Statute that is when the forces are raised and imployed upon private ends either of revenge or interest Before this Statute in E. 1. time The Title of a Castle was in difference between the Earles of Hereford and Gloster for the mainetaining of the possession on the one side and gayning of it on the other Forces were raised on either side of many hundred men they marched with Banners displayed one against the other In the Parliament in the 20. yeere of Edw. 1. this adjudged onely trespasse and either of the Earls fined a 1000. markes a peece After the Statute in Hillary Terme the fiftieth yeere of Edward the third in the Kings Bench Rot. 3. Nicholas Huntercome in a warre-like manner with 40. men armed amongst other weapons with Gunnes so antient as appeares by that Record they were did much spoyle in the Mannor of the Abbee of Dorchester in the County of Oxford This no Treason So it hath beene held by the Judges that if one or more Towneships upon pretence of saving their Commons doe in a forecible and warre-like manner throwe in Inclosures This is onely a Riot noe Treason The words of the Statute of 25. E. 3. cleare this Point that if any man ride armed openly or secretly with men at Armes against any other to kill and robbe or to detaine him untill hee hath made fine and ransome for his deliverance this is declared not to bee Treason but Fellony or Trespasse as the case shall require all the printed Statutes which have it covertly or secretly are mis-printed for the words in the Parliament Roll as appeares n. 17. are Discovertment on secreretment openly or secretly So that my Lords in this of levying warre the Act is not so much to bee considered but as in all other Treasons and Fellonies quo animo with what intent and purpose Object My Lords If the end bee considerable in levying warre it may bee said that it cannot bee a Treason warre unlesse against the King For the wordes of the statute are If any man levy warre against the King Answ That these words extend further then to the Person of the King appeares by the wordes of the Statute which in the beginning declares it to be Treason to compasse and imagine the Kings death and after other Treasons this is to be declared to be Treason to levy warre against the King If the levying of warre extend no further then to the person of the King These words of the Statute are to no purpose for then the first Treason of compassing the Kings death had fully included it before because that hee which levies warre against the person of the King doth necessarily compasse his death It s a warre against the King when intended for alteration of the Lawes or Government in any part of them or to destroy any of the great Officers of the Kingdome This is a levying of Warre against the King Because the King doth protect and maintaine the Lawes in every part of them and the great Officers to whose care hee hath in his owne steede delegated the Execution of them Because they are the Kings Lawes Hee is the Fountaine from whence in their severall Channels they are derived to the Subject all our inditements run thus Trespasses laied to bee done Contrapacem Domini Regis the Kings peace for exorbitant offences though not intended against the Kings Person against the King his Crowne and Dignity My Lords this construction is made good by diverse Authorities of great weight ever since the statute of 25. E. 3. down-wards In R. the 2 ds time Sir Thomas Talbot conspired the death of the Dukes of Glocester and Lancaster and some other of the Peeres for the effecting of it hee had caused diverse people in the County of Chester to be armed in warre-like manner in Assemblies In the Parliament held the seventeenth yeere of Richard the second number the 20. Sir Thomas Talbot accused of high Treason for this It s there declared that insomuch as one of them was Lord high Steward of England and the other high Constable of England that this was done in destruction of the estates of the Realme and of the Lawes of the Kingdome and therefore adjudged Treason and the judgement sent downe into the Kings Bench as appeares Easter-Tearme in the seventh yeere of Richard the second in the Kings Bench Rott 16. These two Lords had appeared in the eleventh yeere of Richard the second in mainetenance of the Act of Parliament made the yeare before one of them was of the Commissioners appointed by Parliament and one of the Appellours of those that would have overthrowne it The Duke of Lancaster likewise was one of the Lords that was to have beene indicted of Treason for endeavouring the maintenance of it and therefore conspiring of their deaths is said to be in destruction of the Lawes This there declared to bee a Treason that concerned the Person of the King and the Common-wealth In that great insurrection of the Villains and meaner people in Richard the seconds time they tooke an oath Quod Regi Comunibus fidelitatem servarent to bee true to the King and Commons that they would take nothing but what they paid for punished all theft with death heere 's no intendment against the person of the King The intent was to abolish the Law of villinage and servitude to burne all the Records to kill the Judges this in the Parliament of the fifth yeere of Richard the second number the one and thirtieth and two and thirtieth the first part is declared to be Treason against the King and against the Law In the eleventh yeere of Richard the second in Parliament the raising of forces against the Commissioners appointed by act of Parliament the yeer before adjudged Treason by all the Judges The Statute of 1. Mar. cap. 12. inacts that if twelve or more shall indeavour by force to alter any of the Lawes or Statutes of the Kingdome hee shall from such a time there limited bee adjudged onely as a fellon This act was to continue but to the next Parliament it is expired it shewes by the words onely that the offence was higher before the making of it My Lords In Queene Elizabeths time Grant and diverse Prentices of London to the number of 200. rose and assembled at Tower-hill carried a Cloake upon a Pole insteede of a banner their intent was to deliver divers Prentices out of prison that had beene committed upon a sentence in Star-Chamber for ryots To kill the Lord Major of London and for setting prices on victuals In Trinity Tearme 37. Eliz. divers of the Iudges consulted withall and resolved that this was a levying of warre against the Queene being intended against the government and officers of the Queen and thereupon Grant and others executed as Traitors Afterwards in that Queenes time divers of the County of Oxford consulted together to goe from house to house in
Shire grounds were within the English pale and ad fidem legem Angliae the Irish that were without the pale were enemies alwayes either in open act of hostility or upon leagues and hostages given for securing the peace and therefore as heere in England wee had our marches upon the frontiers in Scotland and Wales so were there Marches betweene the English and Irish pale where the inhabitants held their Landes by this tenure to defend the Country against the Irish as appeares in the close Rolls of the Tower in the 20. yeare of Edward the third membrana 15. on the backside and in an Irish Parliament held the 42. yeare of Edward the third It s declared that the English pale was almost destroyed by the Irish enemies and that there was no way to prevent the danger but onely that the owners reside upon their Landes for defence and that absence should bee a forfeiture this act of Parliament in a great counsell heere was affirmed as appeares in the close Roll the 22. yeare of Edward the third membrana 20. dorse Afterwards as appeares in the Statute of the eight-and-twenty yeare of Henry the 6. in Ireland this hostility continued betweene the English marches and the Irish enemies who by reason there was no difference betweene the English marches and them in their apparell did daily not being known to the English destroy the English within the pale Therefore it s enacted that every Englishman shall shave the haire of his upper lip for distinction sake This hostility continued till the tenth yeare of Henry the seaventh as appeares by the Statute of the tenth of Henry the seaventh the seaventeenth Chapter and so successively downewards till the making of this very Statute of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth as appeares fully in the ninth Chapter Nay immediatly before and at the time of the making of this Statute there was not onely emnity betweene those of the Shire grounds that is the English and Irish pale but open Warre and Acts of hostility as appeares by History of no lesse authority then that Statute it selfe for in the first Chapter of this Statute is the Attainder of Shane O Neale who had made open Warre was slaine in open Warre It s there declared that hee had gotten by force all the North of Ireland for an hundred and twenty miles in length and above a 100. in bredth that he had mastered diverse places within the English pale when the flame of this warre by his death immediatly before this Statute was spent yet the fire brands were not all quenched for the rebellion was continued by John Fitz. Gerard called the white Knight and Thomas Queverford this appeares by the Statute of the thirteenth yeare of Queene Elizabeth in Ireland but two yeares after this of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth where they are attainted of high treason for levying Warre this eleaventh yeare wherein this Statute was made So that my Lords immediatly before and at the time of the making of this Statute there being Warre betweene those of the Shire grounds mentioned in this Statute and the Irish the concluding of Warre and Acts offensive and invasive there mentioned can bee intended against no others but the Irish enemies Againe the words of the Statute are no Captaine shall assemble the people of the Shire grounds to conclude of peace or warre is it to bee presumed that those of the Shire grounds will conclude of Warre against themselves nor saith the Statute shall carry those of the Shire grounds to doe any Acts invasive by the construction which is made on the other side they must bee carried to fight against themselves Lastly the words are as Captaine none shall assume the name or authority of a Captaine or as a Captaine shall gather the people together or as a Captaine leade them The offence is not in the matter but in the manner If the acts offensive were against the Kings good subjects those that went under command were punishable as well as the Commanders but in respect the Souldiers knew the service to be good in it selfe being against the enemies and that it was not for them to dispute the authority of their commanders the penalty of a 100. pounds is laid onely upon him that as Captaine shall assume this power without warrant the people commanded are not within the Statute My Lords the logicke whereupon this argument hath beene framed stands thus because the Statute of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth inflicts a penalty of a 100. pound and no more upon any man that as a Captaine without warrant and upon his owne head shall conclude of or make Warre against the Kings enemies therefore the Statute of the 18. yeare of Henry the sixt is repealed which makes it treason to lay Souldiers upon or to levy warre against the Kings good people But my Lords observation hath bin made upon other words of this statute that is that without licence of the deputy these things cannot bee done This shewes that the deputy is within none of these Statutes My Lords this Argument stands upon the same reason with the former because hee hath the ordering of the Army of Ireland for the defence of the people and may give warrant to the Officers of the Army upon eminent occasions of invasion to resist or prosecute the enemy because of the danger that else might ensue forthwith by staying for a warrant from his Majesty out of England Therefore it is no treason in the Deputy to imploy the Army in Ireland whensoever hee pleaseth for the subversion of the Kings good people and of the lawes My Lords the Statute of the tenth yeare of Henry the seaventh the seaventeenth Chapter touched upon for this purpose cleares the busines in both points for there it is declared that none ought to make warre upon the Irish rebells and enemies without warrant from the Lieutenant the forfeiture a hundred pounds as here the Statute is the same with this and might as well have beene cited for repealing the Statute of the eighteenth yeare of Henry the sixt as this of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth but if this had beene insisted upon it would have expounded the other two cleare against him Obj. > My Lords it hath beene further said although the statute bee in force and there be a treason within it yet the Parliament hath no jurisdiction the treasons are committed in Ireland therefore not triable here Answ My Lords Sir John Perrot his predecessors in the 24. yeare of Queene Elizabeth was tried in the Kings bench for treason done in Ireland when hee was Deputy and Orucke in the 33. yeare of Queene Elizabeth judged heere for treason done in Ireland Obj. But it will bee said these trialls were after the Statute of the foure-and-thirtieth yeare of Henry the eight which enacts that treasons beyond sea may bee tried in England Answ My Lords his predecessor my Lord Gray was tried and adjudged