But neither shame nor Death to the holy Martyrs are d accounted by God nor by his servauntes as proper and true Curses Before pag. 9. 50. but the holy men are in trueth most glorious and blessed in them Againe the Saints and Martyrs can not bee properly Cursed and properly Blessed too in any measure Neither their Soules blessed vnles their bodyes be blessed also free from the true Curse although you seeme to denie this point Which strange and vncouth assertioÌ„ both heere and in many places mo you doe at least insinuat that is that the godly in their Soules are blessed but in their bodyes they still retaine Gods true proper Curse till the resurrection Which I leave to the consideration of the godly You say We must call things by those Names which God first allotted them That I deny If God since evidently have altered them and disposed of them otherwise But he hath so don in this case The afflictions and death which originally and naturally were punishments for sinne and are so still to the wicked the same to the godly as I have often said are since changed now are properly Chastisements of sinne and not Punishmentes nor Curses Only Christ hath suffered the whole proper punishment and true Curse or Vengeance of our sinnes and therefore on vs it is not it can not be laid againe in any part thereof You a Pag. 96. avouch some that denie Christ to have bene made a Curse or sinne But you must remember b Pag. 92. your owne place of Austin Maledictum est omne peccatum sive ipsum quod fit sive ipsum supplicium The Curse is all sinne which is twofold either that which we commit against Gods law or els the very Punishment of that sinne Nowe c Pag. 96. your testimonies do meane Christ was not made a Curse or sin the first way that is he was not in him selfe sinfull nor hated they deny not the second that he was made the proper punishment or Sacrifice for our sinne And thus though you lust not to see it yet my d Treâ—â— pag. 45. speach was sound and true If Christ dyed simply but as the Godly dye it might in no sort e Gal. 3. heere be called a Curse The reason is evident because the text heere doeth speak treat of the Curse of the Law against sinne such therefore was Christes Curse which he suâ—layned To conclude then his afflictions and death was neither Wages nor Chastisement nor Curse nor Consequent of any sinne in him Yet as God made him sinne for vs so he truely properly and in very deed laid the paine of his Curse vpon his body and Soule Which Curse of God vpon Christ as you f Pag 26 say truly was not in words but in deedes Wherefore my wordes g Pag. 2â— you openly pervert affirming that I say Death heere that is Christes death noted Galat. 3.13 â—ay in no sorte be called a Curse when I expresly even there and every where doe say the contrary Pag. 263. But a your greatest exception is that this Curse laid on Christ cannot be vnderstood of the whole Curse of God or of the Law Pag. 264. and therefore b you spare me not for c saying that Paul heere in his application out of Moses nameth a part of the iust Curse of the Law for sinne Treat 1. pag. 40. thereby meaning and inferring to his purpose the whole Where you must be so good as to vnderstand me by mine own words in other places Pag 290. For thus d you know e I limited my speach els where As touching the vehemency of paine Christ was as sharply touched as the very reprobats Treat 1. pag 81. And Christes sufferings were equall to the very Hellish torments in vehemency of paine and sharpnes Againe f This price equally in Justice must be kept so far as it is possible Pag. 26. And g Pag. 37. Because there was no impossibility no necessitie no reason but he might feele the full smart of our sinnes as there was that he should not feele the full continuance thereof and seeing Gods strict iustice requireth it to be so therefore it was so he suffered all the smart but not all the continuance of our punishment â— Also Pa. 23. Heeâ—e Pa. 13 Thus then plainly h I signified i those 3 Limitations which now are expressed that Christ suffered our whole Curse only so far as the possibilitie of thinges could admit wherein nothing was dispensed nor pardoned to him for there was no cause as I have often said Which doctrine how vnworthy it is of your strang contempt and outcryes against me I leave it to the godly Wise to consider Nowell Catechis Only marke if our k publike doctrine be not the same Vltima omnia pati voluir pro nobis qui vltima omnia commeriti sumus Diram execrationeÌ„ suscepit coÌ„tumelias etiaÌ„ omnes omnia probra atque supplicia c. But you will say thus we make it not the whole Curse of the Law Yes we cal it rightly the whole Curse for as much as Christ suffered it in his whole manhood See before pag 8. 1. The. 5.28 â— pa. 48. 52 even in l All the powers of his m Spirit Soule Body where that Curse in Deutero being a part was suffered only in the Body quickned by the Soul Also in other respectes this suffering of Christ may bee well called the whole Curse or PunishmeÌ„t of sin Pag. 11 12. â—nâ— 16.17 Pa. 27â— 280 as n before is declared After this o you thinke it strange that I say Christ suffered dyed iustly and was hanged on the tree by the iust sentence of the Law that so hee was by imputation of our state and condition vnto him sinfull 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 51.11 defiled hatefull and accursed All the which I avouch because he vndertooke by Gods ordinance as our Surety to receave our whole condemnation vpon himselfe so far as his owne nature and condicion could possibly admit Christ suffeâ— iustly to the ende that hee might wholly acquit vs. In regard whereof I aske Is it wrong for the Law to lay the penalty on the surety when the debtour can not discharge it Against this my assertion you say a Pag. 27â— By no sentence of the Law he hanged on a tree And a reason you give b Pag. 273 because to be hanged on a tree was no necessary part of the generall Curse of God vpon all sinners I answer to Dy for sinne was a necessary part of the generall Curse vpon all sinners What say you then to his Death Did he dy iustly Sure if Christ dyed by the rule of Gods iustice then he dyed iustly If he dyed not by Gods iustice then Wo and thrice Wo to vs. For it cannot be but Gods Iustice * Luc. 16.1 Deut. 10.1 Rom. 8.32 See before pag. 66. must
Goates a slaine a Scapegoat * Pag. 23. You obiect heere against 1. that I abuse the Text. That were a great fault but let vs view the text Thus are the very expresse wordes which you also recite * ver 5 Aaron shall take of the people 2. Goats for a Sinne-offering Surely you must bring very good reason to frustrat so plaine a speach That is you say to make a Sinne-offering of one of them Nay the very words are take 2. Goats for a Sinne-offering it saith not take 2. Goats that one of them may be a Sinne-offering But this sheweth so much you thinke where the text saith Lottes were cast over the 2 Goates one lot for the Lorde the other for the Scapegoat And Aaron shall offer the Goat on which the Lordes lot shall fall and make him a Sinne-offering These wordes prove not that the Scapegoat was no Sinne-offering at all Vnlesse this were true that no Sinne offering can possibly bee but by killing and slaying and sheadding of bloud Although the “ Heb. 9. Scripture say Without sheadding of bloud is no remission yet it meaneth that Allmost all things are in the Law purged with bloud That is many Offerings and sacrifices are bloudy but not all I take now sacrifice and offering in the largest sense as signifying any consecrated thing given to God to appease him for sinne And such vnbloudy Sinne-offerings very many we shall finde in * Lev. 2.11 13 8 13. Nomb. 1â— 18 11 28 12 14. Moses Law Wherefore the Scapegoat may we yet a Sinne-offering though it were not slaine nor bloudy And his vtter sending away into the vnknown Deserts may answer to the consuming of som other Sacrifices by fire Thus then these wordes of the text which you bring doe not proue the Scapegoate to be no Sinne-offering at all they proue it to be no bloudy Offering and therefore not such but of another kind then the slaine Goat was It might be consecrated and offered to the Lord and vtterly sequestred from men and beare and take away sinne no lesse then the slaine Goat wherein verily consisteth the nature and being of a Sacrifice or true Sinne-offering And in very deede all this the text following expresly avoucheth of the Scape goate ver 10. The Scapegoat shal be presented alive before the Lord to make reconciliation by him to let him go for a Scape-goat Heere is his Consecrating vnto the Lord yea reconciliation also is made by him though he dyed not as the other did Againe more plainly ver 21 22. * And Aaron shall put both his handes vpoÌ„ the head of the live Goat and confesse vpon him all the iniquities of the Children of Israell all their trespasses and all their sinnes putting them vpon the head of the Goat and shall send him away alive into the Wildernes So the Goat shall beare vpon him all their iniquities into the Wildernes being let go thither Can there be any thing in the world more full and strong to prove that the Scapegoat also was a true Sinne-offering or rather a true parte of this wholl and intire Sinne-offering consisting and being compleat in both these Goats the slaine and the Scapegoat togeather For as the slaine Goate so this Scapegoat wee see was aswell Consecrated to the Lord and * heere Offered though not by killing and separated from men ver 10. ver 21 22. have vpon him all the sinnes of the people and caryed them cleane away So wee may reade of other Sacrifices consisting and being compleat wholly of Sacrifices of sundry divers kindes Nomb. 28.3 c. The bloudy Sacrifice had conioyned togeather with it the vnbloudy Sacrifice of the Meat offering and another of the Drinke offering c. Which may very likely represent vnto vs the sundry and divers kindes of Christes meritorious Sufferings in his life time at his Death som bloudy some vnbloudy but all concurring togeather making the full and persit propitiation for al our sinnes And even such a Sacrifice or Sinne-offering it seemeth surely these 2. Goats were Heere then your advisednes may bee noted by all men which doe reprove me for this assertion and that with such violent and vncomly termes Now if it be a Figurative Sinne-offering what signified this Figure Certainly it signified Christ and his taking away of our sinnes by his death Have you any colour of reason to maintaine those wide coniectures of the * Ancients â—yrill Amâ—â—ose Beda that the Scapegoat signified the Reprobat and castaway people or ells cursed Barrabas that scaped death when Iesus was slaine Who but you would defend these palpable mistakinges of those men And why Because they are Ancient Yet see you not the expresse text against theÌ„ Do damned men or did Barrabas reconcile vs to God take away our sinnes as the Scapegoat did typically Nay surely It must needs be then that it signified Christ yea doubtles Christ man For the Godhead could bee no Sinne-offering neither did it make reconciliation for sinne neither did the Deity beare our sinnes vpon himselfe properly all which the Scapegoat * Tipically did Further if it were Christ man it could not be his Body for his body was slaine bloudily the Scapegoat was not slaine For the other Goat a Sacrifice to being slaine this survived and went away into the land of separation It must then be of necessity I thinke the Humane mortall Soule of Christ which the Scapegoate signified which was a true Sinne-offering and made propitiation for vs aswell as the slaine Goat and bare vpon him our sinnes though his Soule dyed not bloudily nor by loosing life and sense as his body and the typicall slaine Goat did You say “ Pap. 235. If this Scapegoat do signifie Christs Soule then it cannot be that Christes Soule Suffered much lesse dyed any death This obiection truly you might haue spared seeing my self * Treat 1 1â— before brought it fully answered it where against you have said never a word The effect whereof is this The escaping of the Goat may lively shew vnto vs that Christs Soule dyed not as the Body dyed by loosing life and sense but surviving went hence into Hades the land of separation the invisible world of the Dead But in that the Scapegoat did beare and sustaine our sinnes and was indeede a Sinne-offering to aswell as the slaine Goat so it may well signifie that Christes Soule properly suffered and sustayned the burden of our sinnes in satisfying for them no lesse then his body which was bloudily slaine therefore As for the Dying of Christs Soule we shall answer you for that in due place heereafter So that Now where you say “ Pag. 234. I am more bold then wise in affirming the Scapegoat to signifie the Soule of Christ Surely then I were like you who affirme as boldly that among the Iewes no Sacrifice at all foreshewed any Suffering of
â—â—s heere â—â—g 16. e that no more but the shedding of his bloud onely and meerely is the iust and full satisfaction of all our sinnes even in the righteous and sincere iudgment of God Then we absolutly deny your Assertion as before we haue don the like As for your a 1 Pet. 1 Rev. 5. â— alleaged Scriptures we answer them as we did generally b Treat pag. 8.9 before that they meane not the meere bloud of Christ nor only the body singly and simply considered but that togeather with the proper sufferings of his Soule also they were the iust and full satisfaction and redemption Against which you have nothing any where And likewise our advised and resolut answere is to c pag. 58 60 61 7â— c. all the rest of your scriptures which most tediously and vainly you heape vp scatter every wherein your former treatise to this effect as if they contayned somwhat for your purpose when as indeed there is not one text any where that hath any meaning of your strange conceit So that wee shall have no need to trouble our selves any more heereafter about any of them Yet d pag. 24â— heere you vrge a reason against vs Jf our Soules be not redeemed by the bloud of Christ our bodyes have no benefit of redemption you meane from death But we e 1. Pet. 1 Rev. 5.9 are redeemed not we shal be Ergo it is our Soules which are redeemed our bodyes are not redeemed as yet in this life Wherein we have to note 3. things 1. Your Proposition is vaine and illogicall having no consequence in it at all Which maketh mee to thinke that I hit your meaning right and mistooke you not in my former booke Howbeit to try this your sentence heere what if our Soules were not at all redeemed by Christes bloud but some other way or not by his bloud meerely and onely which indeede is our quaestion will it follow that therefore our bodyes are still mortall and therefore not redeemed from death Or what if our Soules be redeemed by his bloud as indeed they are though not wholly nor only thereby What followeth then from this Nay what if our Soules and Bodyes were redeemed wholly and only by Christs bloud Is these any consequence that therefore our bodyes should now be redeemed from death and never dy Truly I cannot discerne but that your proposition meaneth some such consequence as this which is to me a vey strang reason Yet that which you ad f Pag. 2â— afterward is more strang Jf our Soules be not redeemed wholly by the meere bloud of Christ For thus still I say you must make your wordes or ells you aske the very Quaestion then our bodyes have vtterly no good even no good at all by the death of Christ. In which sequele verily I can see neither head nor taile Chose you now whether you will that you speake this sophistically or absurdly For I cannot discerne it I leave it therefore to your self to determine But perhaps you will yet againe go backe to that you excused your selfe withall before You will meane that our bodies in this life have no benefit of redemption from death even no more then the bodies of Infidels And this plainly you avouch for truth Is this true Are not our bodies now already freed from the curse the sting of death from all the hurt harme that properly and naturally is in death Is it not made vnto vs a quiet sleepe and a peaceable rest an entrance for our Soules into Heaven a putting off of sin to our bodies in such wise that Christ taketh from it the a name of Death and calleth it but b a passage â—oh 8.51 Or have the Jnfidels also thus much benefit in death â—oh 5 2â— as wee have in it by our redemption in Christe I know not therefore how to terme this your assertion I forbeare to name it as it deserveth it is more then strange that Infidels bodies should have as much benefit of nedemption from death as our bodies have by Christ Dy I grant or cease to breath we must and do still even as they do And this death by the naturall property of it is a part of Gods Curse but to the faithful there are great benefits ioyned even in death by the gracious dealing of God peculiarly towardes his children which also their bodies are partakers of thorough the death of Christ The naturall sting is taken out of it for the godly yet it remayneth to the Infidells and hurteth them by retayning even their bodies though dead in vnder Gods dreadfull Curse Wherefore it makes many to thinke that indeed you vttered this matter somewhat otherwise in your Sermons then heere you doe now publish it and it perswadeth mee still that c I mistooke you not â—â—eat 1. â—â—g 11. seeing this your turning setting of it is so vnhansom For every one may see by this your handling of it that then you said more then heere you expresse and heere you would faine fashion it to somwhat but you cannot Yea your own words bewray som alteration froÌ„ that which so confidently you preached where you say Whatsoever the wordes were that you might vse which you do not acknowledge to be these that I bring â—ag 240. Lastly d you grant that you vsed this reason in handling the power of Christes death that is when you preached it For now in this Treatise you have cleane left it out for ought that e I can see which bewrayeth that it was such 〈◊〉 88.113 as your selfe saw was not to be maintayned howsoever heere you strive to set some colour vpon it though yet still in vaine Before we depart from this point That not the bloud of Christ nor his flesh meerely and only without respect to the merit of his whole Soule was the full price of Redemption heere is fit place to shew how sundry of the Ancient Fathers do agree with vs sufficiently in this matter although afterward in your booke you seeme to bring them against vs. But indeed so they seeme onely for in truth they are with vs as by these following we may see First a Ireâ— 5. Irenaeus The Lord bought vs with his owne bloud and gave his soule for our soules his flesh for our flesh b Cyr. de 〈◊〉 fid ad Tâ—â— Cyrill He bestowed his flesh as a ransome for our flesh and made his Soule likewise a price of redemption for our Soules although he lived againe being by nature life it selfe c Naz. in trâ—â— 49. ad Clâ—â— Nazianzen maketh every part of man to be sanctified by the like in Christ our condemned flesh by his flesh our soule by his soule our vnderstanding by his vnderstanding d Ambr. 〈◊〉 Luc. 22. 〈◊〉 trist doloâ—â— c. Ambrose saith Maerorem animae nostrae suae animae maerore abolevit He abolished the sorrow of our Soule by the sorrow of
his Soule And e De incaâ—â— Sacr. cap. 〈◊〉 Hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit c. Christ offered in sacrifice all that which he assumed that is all every whit that was in him besides his Godhead f Fulgent 〈◊〉 Thrasym 〈◊〉 lib. 3. Fulgentius He shewed in himselfe the sufferinges of a whole man in verity truth quicquid fuit infirmitatis animae sine peccato suscepit pertulit Hee tooke vpon him and suffered whatsoever infirmity may be in the soule without sinne It is not possible that wee our selues should speake a more effectuall sentence for our purpose then this is Say as Fulgentius heere saith and we aske no more All that g Pag. 86. you except that by these Fathers Christe dyed only the death of the flesh is lesse then heere they affirme And we shall answer to that in due place Now marke well how these Fathers do not say that Christ gave his life for a ransom onely as h Pag. 70. â—â— you would construe it but even his very Soule to for our Soules They strive to expresse an exact proportion so far as was possible betwene Christ and vs. First in the parts of Christ who suffered of vs who were saved So that as we are saved not in our bodies only nor only in the externall sensitiue parte of our soules wherein standeth that suffering with and by our bodies but wee are saved redeemed and sanctified in our whole Spirite and Vnderstanding also even so by their verdict Christ suffered for vs not the bodily and outward sufferinges by Sympathy onely but hee suffered for vs even in his Minde also Now this is directly against your present a Assertion which we have in hand 〈◊〉 132.240 â—eere p. 14 Also heere they observe an exact proportion in the Obiects so far as was possible viz in that which he suffered for vs that which we are saved froÌ„ thereby Thus that sorrow of the immortall parte of the Soule not of body only which we are saved from the same he suffered Yea I say all and every whit of those passions sorrowes wherevnto mans nature is b subiect and capable of 〈◊〉 nature we â—â—e subject to â—â—fer in the â—â—nde proâ—erly for sin â—nd not only â—y Sympathy â—rom the Body Cyrill Thesâ—â—ur 10 3 Barnard de â—ass Dom. â—ap 41. Pag. 7. Terâ—ul cout Prax. Amb in Luc. 2. De trist â—olor c. and from which we are saved all the same he tasted and suffered for vs. Thus it is also that Cyrill elswhere saith c Omnia perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret He suffered all things throughly that hee might acquit vs from all which els we should have suffered And thus I take Barnards meaning to be d He spared not him selfe who knoweth how to spare his Wherevpon you collect well if you meane so e He suffered and indured All to the vttermost with exact obedience and patience To which end Tertullian also f Sic reliquit dum non parcit This was Gods forsaking of him in his passion that in nothing he spared him And thus Ambrose g Minus contulerat mihi nisi meum suscepisset affectum He had don lesse for me if he had not ben altogeather affected as I should haue ben And thus Ierom h â—erom in â—sa 53. h Quod nos pro nostris debebamus sceleribus sustinere ille pro nobis passus est pacificans c That wich we should have borne for our sinnes the same hee suffered for vs. Wherefore by the Fathers Christ suffered exactly i All whatsoever sorrowes paines which we should have suffered All kindes 〈◊〉 both in â—â—irit Body â—ot all partiâ—â—lars in theÌ„ as well Spirituall as Corporall as well in all the powers of the Soule subiect to suffering as in that which suffered allwayes with and from the body Only they except 2. pointes which of simple necessity indeed must be excepted in the Sonne of God Pag. 10. 12. â—3 which before k I have also acknowledged 1. Sinne Pag. 87. and all sinfull concomitantes and consequentes as l you speake And that is it which Cyprian exactly noteth That in him there was m Similitudo paenae non Culpae Cypr. de pass the very like punishmeÌ„t as should have ben in vs only there was no sinne nor fault in him as is in vs. The 2. point excepted is that he suffered not eternally but for a while for he that was life it selfe could not but live againe saith n Cyrill In the place above cited Where he seemeth to acknowledge a kind of death even of the soule from which Christ revived againe But of that in due place heereafter Nowe heere it is manifest that even the Fathers of whom you doe so exceedingly boast are cleane against you and for vs in the 1. and chiefest point of this question shewing that Christ suffered not only bodly or in the soule by Symphaty only but in the Minde also distinctly even as we may suffer in minde distinctly froÌ„ our bodily suffering that is when we suffer somwhat a As I 〈◊〉 Treat 〈◊〉 pag. 4. imediatly from God Yea he suffered say these Fathers all the paines which els we should haue suffered no materiall thing excepted but only sinne otherwise he was spared by dispensation in nothing Against this cleere and plaine sense of the Fathers b Pa. 35â— you take no exception neither can you Thus having hitherto manefestly defended my selfe that I have not abused any way the Fathers nor yet your selfe as you vniustly charge me in c Pa. 22â— your entrance Now I am to doe the like against d Pag. 2â—â— your vnsufficient refusing of my Reasons Where by I hope it shall appeare that you have not weakened any one of them And First you begin with rehearsing my wordes wherein I briefly noted the very Question betweene vs e Treat 〈◊〉 pag. 4. That Christ suffered for vs the Wrath of God Which you f Pag. 24 exclame at without measure as being not the point which you preached against Howbeit I suppose these wordes do rightly and fitly set out the matter both which then you preached which now you write I have g Pag. 8 heere before truly fully declared the whole state of this controversy I trust Yet because we can never opeÌ„ this point to much for many good vses that it hath I will not thinke it tedious nor labour lost ne to rip vp this question a litle againe in this place that so we may proceede with more ease Your generall cariage in your booke declareth that you abuse the Reader exceedingly by the ambiguous and equivocall taking of this terme Gods Wrath as before in the entrance I have shewed It is not I that abuse them as you h Namâ— 243 24â— every where very bitterly and vnreasonably do charge me For according to the most vsuall and
will disprove d Treat â—â— pag. 19. my Proposition which is whereby Adam first sinned by the same Christ satisfied for sinne You deny this because the Scripture acknowledgeth no satisfaction but by death where still we must note that you meane only by the Bodily death Now how proove you that Because the iudge in prohibiting Adam to transgresse threatned death e Ocn. 2. Jn the day that thou catest thereof thou shalt dye the death Which it seemeth f Pa. 100. 64. you avouch againe and againe And are you sure that Death heere is but the bodily death only no more Then surely the wicked should satisfie easilie for their sinnes Far be it from me to vtter such a sentence Neverthelesse you must give me leave to shew you also your contradiction in this point First in that where you acknowledge g Pag. 42. the Iudges revenge for sinne is Death both of body and soule Againe where you h Pag. 18. agree with Athanasius shewing expresly that this text intendeth even both these Anima dixit Morte morieris He saide to the Soule Thou shalt dy the death But you would prove your matter againe by this Hebr. 9.15 a Through death which was for our redemption we receaue the promise Yet he saith not Through his bodily death meerely and alone and by nothing els togeather therewith which is your intent He excludeth not the Soules proper sufferings as b I have often said Treat 1. the contrarie heereof you never come neere to proove And it must not be forgotten Pag. 8 9. that c heere â—ou renounce all satisfaction for sinne in respect of merit as from Christes soule vtterly Pag. 253. Therefore that absurd speech and worse which you d vniustly cast on me Pa. 250. c. proveth in very deed to be your owne that Christes suffering in Soule by Sympathy makes not to our redemption Your own place in Barnard maketh Christes whole Soule that is the Minde and the part depending on the Body also to have place and part in the meritorious sacrifice Pag. 84. as well as the Body e Vt totum hominem salvum fecit sic de Toto se hostiam fecit salutarem Which suteth not with your wordes The Soule of Christ which could not dye could not pay the satisfaction and nothing might satisfie for sinne but death Pag. 85 86 8. c. Yea all your f other places of Contradiction herevnto must be taken in good part As for your reason That nothing may satisfie for sinne but death it is not sound The Scriptures doe shew in deed that Christ should not satisfie without Death but they deny not that there are other partes of Christes Satisfaction which differ from Death As his bloudshed and besides that Christs Povertie his hunger his wearines his shame his reproches his apprehension his buffeting c. These doubtles yea all other suffringes of Christ whatsoever small or great are satisfactorie meritorious You will say you vnderstand all these and such like in the Death of Christ You may vnderstand what you list but who will grant in proper speech that these are his Death or that his death is any or all these And if you take Christes death by the Figure Synecdoche a part of Christes sufferings for the whole Pag. 41. c. then why doe g you so much abhorre that Figure heere and why may not the Soules proper sufferings be admitted also into the worke of Christes Satisfaction although it can not properly dye Where you nippe me also for saying that the Soule of Christ in some kinde of sense dyed I hope in due place you shall have a reasonable answer to that matter Till then have patience I pray And thus h you come to skan my Assumption also Pag. 253. that Adam committed sinne most properly in his Soule Which you graunt in one sense is true but directly repugnant to my Conclusion How I pray b Pag. 25 If I meane that Adams Soule transgressed the CoÌ„mandement with her body and by her body that is the Soule as agent the Body as the Instrument theÌ„ the conclusion will follow in spite of my heart Ergo in satisfiing for sinne Christs Soule must be punished with her body and by her body which is the thing I labour to overthrow with all the wits I have Nay then the Conclusion will follow that the immortall part the Minde was punished peculiarly and not by and from the Body onely seeing in all even outward sinnes the Soule sinneth both principally and also in a proper and peculiar maner by it selfe yea before the body sinneth Albeit the Body sinneth also secoÌ„darily and in a maner proper to it selfe even as the Instrument as you say Yea further I meane that some sinnes the Soule acteth in and by it selfe meerely and therefore it suffereth likewise some punishments meerely in it selfe which touch not the Body at all vnlesse by Sympathy only and that only when they grow vehement But all this you heere deny Very stranâ— doctrine teaching that the Soule properly committeth no sinne but by and with the body that is the Soule in it self by it selfe alone sinneth not And so consequently that God temporally and eternally punnisheth the Soule only by the Body This is the true effect of your discourse heere For proofe of the first you say c Pag. 25 God did not say to Adam thou shalt not like d The soâ—â—den fruiâ—â— it or desire it which the Soule of Adam did but thou shalt not eat thereof which could not be performed but by the hand and mouth of Adam And therefore Adam transgressed the Commandment not by his Soule but by his Body even as in murder theft and adultery these factes men commit by their Bodies and not by their Soules And after All provocations and pleasures of sinnes the Soule taketh from her ' Body all actes of sinne she committeth by her body Both which speeches are exceeding vntrue and hurtfull For even in these sinnes the Soule as I said sinneth principally and peculiarly before that the Body sinneth at all Yea the Desiring and Liking of evell is sinne before the outward Act is coÌ„summat and finished This Paul e Rom. 〈◊〉 vnderstood at length when he became a Christian though a long while being a Pharisee he knew it not And it seemeth this was in Christs time the Haeresie of the Pharisees against whom he sheweth that not only the outward fact of Bodily sinne was sinne but also a â—at 5.22.28 even the very thoughts and liking towards sinne Wherefore Adam was as well forbidden to desire or like that fruit as to eat it which you deny The Commandement was naturally ingraven in Adams hearte in his Creation Which since Moses maketh distinct and diverse from all the rest which concerne the outward acte Therefore distinctly he saith Thou shalt not desire or covet So that to desire the forbidden
doâ—â— fully 〈◊〉 vnto emphasis d Isa 53 Hee susteyned our very sorrows or our sorrowes themselves And this we conclude the rather because the sense of paines and sorrows e Heb. 2â— only was the Ransom ordayned and consecrated by God in Christ that by them his sufferings should be accomplished our sinnes satisfied Whatsoever therefore in this life might be painfull was due to mankind generally for sin in it owne nature was no sin that Christ suffered wholly and alltogeather for vs even the same which els we should Which is your own f pa. 28â— plaine confession also I grant indeed it vtterly impossible that he who was vncapable of sinne yea God himselfe should be really separated from God or Hated or weakened in faith or punished externally Yet it was possible that even he on whom our sinne was laid should feele both properly in Soule and also in Body all the whole vehemency of our due paine and the sharpenes of our smart Paine affliction sorrow is not sinne be it small or great it is indeed properly and originally the Punishment of sinne either in vs or in others Christe suffered Punishment for sinne not in himselfe as others do but by Gods ordinance he suffered punishment extraordinarily for sinne in vs. When God smot him it was possible for him to feele it yea vnpossible it was that he should not feele it and of necessitie his Soule peculiarly properly infinitly did feele the stroke of Gods wrathful iustice The vehemency whereof may wound and pierce no lesse even in this life where God will then in the locall Hell it selfe All these our due sorrowes therefore and all this our sharpest deserved paine even Gods owne immediat hand smiting the Soule for sinne which far exceedeth and comprehendeth as it were all other paine Christ without any dispensation or qualification whatsoever indured for vs. This is that which we say and thus Ierom also expoundeth this very text â—trom in 〈◊〉 53. Saith hee a Quod nos pro nostris debebamus sceleribus sustinere ille pro nobis ' passus est Turne nowe your vaine and frivolous insultation against Ierom for his indefinit speech to whom it pertayneth in this case aswell as to me Pag. 26â— if you be not a respecter of persons Say to him b You may do well St Ierom to go to the Vniversitie againe whence you came afore you were wise and there learne to put quantity to your propositions that we may know when you speak of any thing whether you meane All or Some But Jerom would be wise enough to answer you if he were alive that whersoever he studied he knew so much that in learning and reason an indefinit proposition is to be taken as Vniversall in a necessary matter 〈◊〉 specialâ—â— Satisfying Gods vnâ—â—all Iustice 〈◊〉 * as the vndertaking of a Surety is in his stead whom he is surety for and yet namely but so far as knowen possibility admitteth and indeed no further Now this is apparant in this case of Christes suretyship and suffering in our steed Hee suffered all the whole punishent of sinne due to mankinde whatsoever was possible for him being a sinles man also very God to suffer And further then this none will imagin or thinke that any vnles mad men do affirme You charge meâ— c heereafter that I falsify this place of Ierom 〈◊〉 350. â—â—reat 1. 〈◊〉 85. Curse 〈◊〉 I put it â—â—â—hus Maâ—â—ctum 〈◊〉 a paâ—â—â—nthesis â—â—nod enim â—â—al 3.13 because d I did put in e maledictum with his wordes Which is a silly devise to turne of Jerom without answer For by it I expresse Ieroms meaning f his words have plaine reference to Maledictum in the g Apostle whoÌ„ he cited immediatly before This is theÌ„ none other but an honest falsifying of mine Authour Now that this place of Isay and the whole doctrine which I avovch touching these sufferinges of Christ for vs may the better be receaved let vs note that the publike doctrine appointed by h Authority to be taught through our England expresseth the very same Which Auâ—â—â—tie I have â—â—â—ged exâ—â—sed Treat 〈◊〉 88.89 â—he answereth to iâ— a word Namely Nowells Catechisme where it is thus taught He paid and suffered the paine due to vs and by this meanes delivered vs from the same Neither is it vnvsed among meÌ„ â—ne to promise and to be surety yea sometime to suffer for an other But with Christe as our Surety so suffering for vs God dealt as it were with extremity of law but to vs whose sinnes deserved punishments due paines he laid on Christ he vsed singular lenity gentlenes clemency and mercy Christ therefore suffered and in suffering overcame death the paine appointed by the everliving God for mens offense Againe His will was to suffer All extremitie for vs who had deserved all extremitie All these things being taken vpon himselfe he destroyed them all Where marke also what doctrine the Law of this Realme consonantly publisheth and commandeth in the Homilies of Christs Passion See whether it misliketh yours or no. The b Hom. â— Hom maketh Christs putting himselfe betweene Gods deserved Wrath and our sinne the extreamest part of his Passion If this were the extreamest part of his Passion then it was a further feeling then the sense of Bodily paine only it cannot be any other then his feeling of Gods proper Wrath spiritually which our sinne deserved Therefore by the Homily hee felt Gods proper Wrath spiritually which our sinne deserved Againe he bare All our sinnes sores and infirmities vpon his owne backe No paine did he refuse to suffer in his owne body But as he felt All this in his Body so hee must feele the greatest part primarily and much more deeply in his Soule Ergo hee refused not to suffer All the paines of the Wrath of God both in Body and Soule c Hom. â—â— Hee tooke vpon him the reward of our sinnes the iust reward of sinne But this same Homily saith The reward of our sin was the iust wrath and indignation of God the death both of Body and Soule Therefore by the Homily Christ tooke on him for vs the iust wrath indignation of God the death both of body soule And thus also * 1. Treat pag. 34. my text of Scripture is iustified That d 2. Tim. â—â— Christ gave himselfe the price of redemption for vs which we els should have paid Where e Pa. 261. you except against this text in Timoth that I say The Scripture speaketh heere after the common vse custom of redeeming captives taken in warre wheÌ„ a captive being not able som other friend payeth Antilytron the same price for the captive which els he should You aske who told me that the Scripture speaketh after the common vse of enemies I answer The nature of the word Antilytron a Ransom importeth so much which is properly vsed in such cases
hath no shape of any reason in it It proveth that Christ surely had very great pity and commiseration of them but nothing els in the worlde Besides Christ might have far greater pity of them then Moses or Paul had and yet hee was able to cary his affection far more patiently and quietly then they were able which would rather keepe him from such an outwarde distemper as was even in them Also Christ knew exactly Gods Counsell and purpose for their reiectioÌ„ which those holy men were not so particularly sure of Wherfore Christ might better stay the vehemency breaking out of this affection which in such a case must needs tend against the knowen will of God In those holy men it might better break foorth very strongly as it did seeing they knewe not particularly Gods decree heerein so as Christ knew Lastly those holy men it seemeth having their thoughtes wholly defixed on their vehement pity towardes the Iewes earnestly and constantly wished that the Cup of Gods eternall wrath might come vpoÌ„ them selves that the Iewes who deserved it â—pecially â—ul who â—â—vâ—edly â—proveth yeâ—â—th Rom. 1. might scape But Christ in his Passion contrariwise desired that the Cup which hee tasted to be too bitter and too violent for him might passe away from him selfe Thus here is no semblance of reason in this for your purpose But against you heere are 4. worthie things to be noted If we consider this first that these most servent desires of these rare men were holy and not sinful Because their thoughts being wholly altogeather for the time defixed on their love to their Brethren in the flesh that they might be saved and that Gods glory might be infinitly more ample if he saved so many hundred thousands which now almost seemed to them as lost then it would be in their own particular salvation onely and thus for the tyme not thinking it seemeth vpon their own immutable Election and Salvation not any thing els saving only that they could desire their brethrens salvation yea though it were with their owne damnation for their sakes if so it might stand with Gods will which no doubt alwayes they implyed though expressed nor thus I take it plaine enough that these sinned not in this their desire and I suppose you take it so too in that you alleage them ground your reason of Comparison vpon them Nowe from hence I observe these 4. notable pointes â—â—â—e 1. That if God Omuipotent and only Soveraigne Lord will he may inflict Damnation and the paines of Hel vpon meere men not for them selves but for others not for their own sins but for the imputed Sinnes of other men much rather then may hee doe thus to Christ whom God sent indeed and ordayned for that purpose â—â—g â—76 Flatly contrary to your Assertion That which there you mention is the ordinary common rule The Soule that sinneth it shall Dy. But in Christ this was eatraordinary and singular that The iust dyed for the vniust 2. Wee see heere that there may be possibly a Death of the Soule a Curse and Separation froÌ„ God which is in it selfe neither Sinne nor conioyned with sinne necessarily but meerely a Suffering of Punishment from God for the sinnes of others imputed 〈◊〉 73.310 Contrarie to you also yea generally every where Third That extraordinarily there is greater love even among meere men then only to dy bodily one for another though vsually and ordinarily a greater can not be found among men which is it that a Ioh. 13 1â— Christ meaneth But how much more the may the love of Christ towards his Elect be farre greater Contrary to b Pa. 107 1â— your assertion Fourth Wee see here that these holy men without feeling any paines inflicted by Gods wrath but onely through an earnest and mighty Compassion of love c Pag. 293. have their mindes drawen so wholly to thinke on this speciall thing above their reach that during the time they turne not themselves to any other cogitation Even as the eye being bent inteÌ„tively to behold any thing for that present discerneth nothing els Whereby it coÌ„meth to passe that these wishes of these holy men ravished with Pity and Zeale are not reckoned sinfull in theÌ„ though they were directly against their owne SalvatioÌ„ which otherwise they knew was immutable with God and certainly reserved for them in Heaven This you d Pag. 293. acknowledge may be in men yet you will not skoffe at them as e Pag. 144. cast into a traunce by it nor reproch them with f Pag. 299. infernall confusion How much lesse ought you so to deale with Christ but specially to acknowledge that his marveylous perplexity may well be a meanes that his suddainwishes against his own constant purpose Gods will were yet no sinnes And that much rather even for this because Christ had infinitly more cause by his Paines theÌ„ felt and feared to be in his minde both more amuzed and also amazed then those men had by their affections Thus far of this As for the g Ambroâ—â—â— leâ—om Aâ— Bâ—de Fathers which h Pag. 19. you cite if they meane as they seeme to do that now at his Passion among other causes of sorrow there waÌ„ted not this even his great Pity towards his forlorn CouÌ„trymeÌ„ theÌ„ we ioyne with them If they meane as you would have them that this was the maine and chiefe cause of his extreame sorrows and amazednes therein I vtterly leave them Howbeit this heere note in them that these Fathers avouch Christ feared not his bodily Death and Passion for thereof only they speake heere questionles You contrariwise say that Christ feared bodily death for thereof also i Pag. 26 〈◊〉 you discourse and had more cause as you thinke so to do then any of his members haue Third touching k Pag. 19 〈◊〉 his regard of his Church generally the same answer serveth as is given to the last point before If you vrge that these Fathers are so resolute for these Causes as their wordes heere pretend then your self abuseth them more theÌ„ ever I did or meane to do â—ag 17. where you say a it is curiosity to examine presumption to determine impossibility to conclude as these doe what was the true cause of Christs Agonie Fourth Pag. 20. b you alleage his inward sorrow and zealous grief for the sinnes of the world to be the maine and chiefe cause of his Agonie Surely even to rehearse these your argumeÌ„ts is refutation of them enough All these are proper parts of his Holines Righteousnes as I have said but no proper partes or causes of his bloudy most dreadfull Agonie that is of his Sacrifice satisfying for sinne Only his * Heb. 2.10 Paines were which then he felt and feared Neither in respect of these your supposed causes could he say Save me froÌ„ this hower nor Let this Cup passe from me as
manhood also after so low humiliation Finally it was his own most free and fore determined will Would hee then so mournfully grieve and complaine thereat It hath no reason nor likelyhood in it Iohn 1â—â— Lazarus when he was returned from the ioyes of heaven to take againe his rotten carcase ofter it stanke having lyen 4. dayes dead in the grave yet he grieved not at it neither ought he so to have don Much lesse ought Christ so to grieve and mourne for a lesser want and for a shorter season as we may thinke then that was to Lazarus But this matter is not worth the speaking of “ See bâ— to this puâ— pag. 10â— any further Neither doe your Fathers prove any such improbable yea vnlawfull mourning complayning in Christ If they prove any thing towardes your meaning it is this that he complayned because of his bodily dying Howbeit they say not that he thus complayned only and meerely for that neither I thinke will you plainly hold this neither doe wee deny the other The truth is they meane he suffered in his whole Humane nature How the â—â—thers are 〈◊〉 taken namely that he suffered not as God They strove heere with Haeretikes whose controversies were far from this our question f Hilar. 〈◊〉 Trin li. 〈◊〉 Hilary and g Epiph. 〈◊〉 Arioma 〈◊〉 Epiphanius wrot against Arius to prove that Christ in this complaint shewed rightly a humane infirmity and that this was not the voice of a Deity inferiour to the Father as Arius blasphemed These Fathers then had no purpose heere to exclude the sufferings of Christes Soule but only to deny that his Godhead suffered complayned as being left to punishment by his Father when the sorrowes of death began to prevayle against him The very same doth †In Maâ—â— can 33. 〈◊〉 Hilary also where he saith that this in Christ was Corporis vox the outcry of his body He plainly meaneth it of his whole manhood the opposition being betweene it and his Godhead â—reat 1. â—â—g 9. as the Scripture †often doth And where he saith he was morte peragendus to be coÌ„summated by death he meaneth that death ended all his suffering not that hee suffered nothing els but meerely death And if their words do any where come neere to our question â—ertul cont â—â—ax â—â—ila in Mat. â—â—au 33. as it is very likely that h Tertulian and the one place of i Hilary doth then surely they are plainly for vs and against you Tertullian pointeth in this place at certaine Haeresies maintained in his time wherwth it seemeth Praxeas was infected 1 That the Father suffered aswell as the Sonne when Christ suffered 2 That the Deity suffered 3 That Christ was no true nor perfit man All these pointes Tertullian overthroweth heere Quid de isto quaeris c. What inquire you of Christ You heere him crying out in his Passion My God my God why hast thou forsaken me The Sonne therefore suffered being forsaken of his Father but this is meant of the Flesh and of the Soule that is of the Man not of the Word nor of the Spirit Heere it is plaine that Tertullian sheweth besides the rest this point exactly that Christ was a very man in that he had a proper Body and a Soule and that this his suffering on the Crosse was in both these partes and so in his whole intire manhood Also that he suffered in both these parts even froÌ„ his Father â—eere pag. 63. â—at 1. pa 4 But he could not suffer in his Soule froÌ„ †God if he felt only and meerely but a bodily death as you hold And to suffer the stroke of Gods hand in his Soule as the proper vengeance of sin is farre more then to feele in Soule by sympathy only the bodies smart Neither had Tertull. overthroweÌ„ but confirmed that Haeresie of Christs being no true natural man if he had said that in this case he suffered in Soule only by symphathy with and from the Body But this is absurd to thinke in Tertullian Therefore in this place he is flatly against you And this DerelictioÌ„ of his Father which he speaketh of is Death indeed to the Sonne But what death Forsooth more then the separation of the Soule and Body â—at Death â—â—e Soule in â—ist wee â—â—ne Even the seperation of the Deity from the whole manhood which is the death of the Soule I speake heere nothing but the Fathers words yea the Scriptures Your owne place of Epiphanius saith that nowe his Deity departed from his manhood So saith your owne Hilary also Corporis vox contestata recedentis a se Dei dissidium So saith Ambrose Clamavit Homo Divinitatis separatione moriturus The man Christ did cry being about to dy by the separation of his Godhead Againe Sequestrata delectatione Divinitatis aternae taedio meae infirmitatis afficitur The ioy of his eternall Godhead being parted away hee was afflicted with the tediousnis of my infirmitie Heere the Fathers doe shewe in deed that Christ dyed but more then a meere bodily death even the death of the Soule also For what is the Separation of the Deitie from his Soule els but the death of the Soule Howbeit note I pray that neither the Fathers nor I do meane any Separating 1 of the vnion of a The Dâ—â— Humâ—â— both natures in Christ nor the Separating 2 of any Holynes or habituall grace of God from his Soule 3 nor the Separating of Gods love from him See befoâ—â— pag. 10â— but the SeparatioÌ„ of all comfortable feeling assistance of the Godhead in that he felt not any supporting of his Soule and Body now pierced thorow with the Paines which he felt inflicted by God This SeparatioÌ„ is meant and it b Thougâ— haps thâ— ther 's dâ— this phâ—â— rarely may be called the Death of the Soule For as it is c Psal â—â— life to the Soule to feele and to enioy the glorie of God So it is death to feele the want and absence thereof vtterly and the rather being also then overwhelmed with incomparable paines That heavenly life Christ tasted a litle while in his TransfiguratioÌ„ this Hellish Death he felt besides his bodily death vpon the Crosse And thus Tertull. meaneth heere that not Christs bodily death only made him now thus to cry out but that death also which was the Separation of his Godhead from both his body Soule which is the death of the Soule And so he saith true the Dereliction of the Father is Death to the Sonne Your d Pag. â—â—â— 4. Exposition for any thing I see may be granted for it seemeth to bee the same in effect that wee holde Your place of Cyrill seemeth also to concurre that Christes words of complaint were the removing of the dereliction which had fallen on vs. Was it removed from vs then surely it was laid vpon some body els Now that must needes be vpon
turne them to ioy gladnes though not properly to be glad of them Nay we ought most instantly to pray against them No affliction at all is good in it owne nature and the greatest of all is good to Gods children by his grace So that touching this vse of them therein wee are to reioyce even when we are most bruized and pearced in our soules with the terrours of God Lastlie 〈◊〉 134. l you frame an obiection against your selfe which you neither doe nor can answer Christs soule might feele the tormentes of Hell for the time without any distrust or doubting of his salvation or our redemption You pretend thïs answer The essentiall tormentes of Hell are the absolute losse of Gods kingdom everlastingly and that m Eternall continuance is of the nature and substance of Hell But we shew you â— 53 although the damned are in Hell torments everlastingly and of necessitie so must bee yet eternall continuance in them and to feele them but for a time are indeed but Circumstances not of the essence or nature of Hell tormentes Gods proper and extreame wrath only and his sharpest vengeance for sinne is the essence or nature of Hell paines Which against the Damned indeed is eternall and vnsatisfyable but lighting on Christ it was not eternall because it was satisfyable Wherefore it is plaine that you have answered in effect nothing to your owne obiectioÌ„ Thus far we have gone shewing that we a Pag. 2 neither extende the cause of Christes Agonie to far in affirming it to have com of most bitter extreame Paines which he suffred properly for our sinns neither that we coÌ„tinue it to long in affirming that he felt the same most extreamely on the Crosse Contrariwise that you curtaile it to short when you say it was no more but b Pag. 1 290. Devotion to God and Compassion to men also that Christes Agonie touched him c Pa. 11â— not at all on the Crosse So that d Before 90.91.116 our Maine argument which you would haue frustrated standeth firme and good still that seeing his Agonies Paines and Feares were such so great as the Scripture by the effects signes sheweth that they were both before his death and at his death therefore they were more then meere bodily paines and more then meere bodily death much lesse were his Holy and Religious affections the proper and speciall Cause thereof But of necessity they were the Paines proceeding from the infinit and sharpe Iustice of God which Christ truly suffered in his Spirit and Soule and Body After this a Pag 3â— Touchiâ—â— Death oâ—â—â— Soule you set vehemently against my last argument That Christ suffered in some sorte the death of the Soule First if wee should speake strictly after the maner of Death in the Body then no man is so mad or foolish as to say that any mans Soul can dye at all that is want life and sense as a dead body doth Thus the very damned soules in Hell suffer not death But such a death as immortall soules are subiect subiect vnto is Gods separation froÌ„ them And this is 2. folde The 1. death and the 2. death as the Scripture speaketh The 1. is the separation of them from Gods grace which is in this life by sinne raigning in them The 2. death is Gods leaving them in the feeling of the most sharpe and most vehemeÌ„t paines inflicted by Gods iustice for sinne This last kind of death is so called and named in many places of b Ezek. Gen. 2â— Rom. 6â— 2. Cor. 3.7.5.20 aâ— 1. Ioh. 17. Scripture It hath also a double consideration First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the Damned for their owne inherent sinne where withall are the ordinary Accidents and coÌ„comitants togeather Desperation induration blaspheming vtter darkenes c. with Perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in Hell In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they deny that Christ suffered the death of the Soule and so likewise do we Secondly The death of the soule or the 2. death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essense of it 〈◊〉 Death the Soule â—â—rist tasted That is the feeling of most deadly infinit paines inflicted by God himselfe in his proper iustice for sinne all sense also of his comfortable presense being taken away This is a Death to the Soul â—â—g 113. â—ag 135. 6. â—ag 112. 3. as * before we have shewed according to this sense the Scriptures †Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to deny it in Christ so that this kind of Death in the soule but none other we may safely say Christ did suffer for our sinne imputed to him Moreover let it be observed that if wee had no proofes at all in Scripture for this point yet our Question is fully proved coÌ„firmed notwithstanding by those other sufficient pregnant proofes alleaged iustified before For it is be to noted that no man setteth the questioÌ„ in these termes That Christ dyed in his soule neither doe we at all vse them very much in speaking of this matter We do only when some speciall occasion draweth it from vs neither then do we vtter it in those termes but with vsing some further declaration of our minde The reason of this warynes is because we are not ignorant how ambiguous the phrase is and how apt to be mistaken specially where men list to cavill Also people vntaught and vnsetled in construing the scriptures sense do quickly take offense at thinges which they ought better to digest So that you doe very iniuriously to grate still one this phrase of speach and to straine it to the worst as you do as if by no meanes it could beare any good sense and as if we built our maine Assertion onely heerevpon Which in truth is nothing so The same also doe we affirme touching our vsing in this matter the phrase of Christs suffering Hell paines Both these phrases are but seldome and respectively vsed by vs. Howbeit we deny not but that both these phrases may be well and rightly applyed vnto Christ on occasion â—â—g 16. 52. â—â— 113. as * before is observed may both serve truly and most emphatically to expresse the infinitnes of the paines and sorrowes of his suffering for vs. Yea this very phrase of death extended in Christ further then to his meere bodily dying hath I doubt not expresse ground in the Scripture and therefore may the better be vsed soberly admitted charitably You will aske where is there any scripture Proofes that Christe suffered any other death then that meerely of his body I answer First consider well that to the c Hebr. â—ebr 5.7 Hee offered vp prayers and supplications with strong crying teares to him that was able to save him from death It is not possible that this Death heere should be
same Hee was crucified touching his infirmitie but liveth by the power of God His infirmitie the text heere nameth Metonimically vnderstanding in Christ that in which his infirmities were Now his Soule had infirmities of suffering in it as well as his body Therefore his Soule also is vnderstood heere that it was Crucifyed and dyed that is according to the condicion thereof as likewise his body according to the condicion thereof And thus that which Paul calleth infirmitie Peter calleth Flesh and that which Paul calleth the power of God Peter calleth the Spirit That is his Deitie is set oppositly in both these places to his whole Humanitie even to body and soule Aug. de 4.13 To which purpose that place also to the “ Rom. Romanes doth serve where the like opposition is found as I have shewed betwene the Flesh and the Spirit in Christ that is his Manhood and Godhead Other reasons also * Treat 137 1â— I haue noted serving well heerevnto as the 4 5 and 6. but I omit to rehearse them againe For it seemeth your selfe agreeth with vs in them â—â—g 324. holding a expresly that the Spirit heere in Peter is the Deitie of Christ according to Austins iudgement Now this being granted and acknowledged that the Spirit heere signifieth Christes Godhead how can it be likely but that the other opposit part the Flesh must needes import his whole and intire Manhood Verily thus it seemeth most plaine that Peter heere distributeth the whole and absolute person both God and Man into these Natures the Flesh and the Spirit Wherfore I can not thinke but that the Apostle heere vnderstandeth by Flesh the whole and intire Manhood of Christ even his Soule and his body Now this being so then it followeth by the text that Christ in his Passion was don to death both in Soule Pag. 320. body Heere you obiect that thus I make all the attributes of the body common to the Soule Nay forsooth that I doe not Nor yet this attribute of Dying vnderstood in such sort and maner as the Body properly dyeth that is to become without life and sense I ascribe Death to both but yet according to the divers condicion and state of both â—reat 1. Pâ—g 78. And thus you might vnderstand my b meaning to be where I say it is absurd false that Christ was made aliue in his Humane Soule that is it neither lost nor recovered life and sense so as his body did â—â—â—e before 〈◊〉 135 136 Howbeit as Death is oftentymes attributed to mens soules in the c Scripture that is the feeling of the extreame wrath of God and the punishment for sinne so d I make Death commoÌ„ both to Christes Soule and body â—â—eat 1. â—â—g 79. even to his whole and intire humane Nature Which if you do not acknowledge the shame of ab surditirie and coÌ„trarietie which in your fancy e you accuse me of that Christes Soule dyed and dyed not â—â—g 322. â—â—3 will sit neerer to you theÌ„ to me Also in such a sense I deny not but Christ may be said that he was quickened in the Spirit that is refreshed and comforted againe in his Soule and restored from that bottomles gulfe of sorrowes to the lively feeling of heavenly ioyes and glory which for a season he had no sense of at all Howbeit though this sense bee a true quickening in his Soule yet I deny that heere in this place of Peter it can be translated quickened in the Spirit meaning the Soule because Spirit heere in this opposition is set indeed for the Deitie of Christ â—â—â—d you with â—â—â—stin doe â—â—sent * as before I have shewed Thus the matter I hope is cleere to reasonable men that Christes Soule even according to the Scripture phrase may be said in some sorte to have tasted and suffered Death that is the extreamest feelings of Gods wrath for sinne and the most vehement paines of the damned though not as the damned doe in respect of the Accidents and concomitants of their ordinary damnation but in a singular maner and extraordinarie way as became the sonne of God and a sinles man yet a very maÌ„ being our Redeemer Now besides the matter you “ Pag. 3 gird at me in divers places as where I say The Death of the Soule is such Paines and sufferings of Gods wrath as allwayes accompanie them that are separated from the grace and love of God Forfooth it is true they are alwayes wicked whom these Paines doe accompanie ordinarily They came vpon Christ extraordinarilie as in a Treat â— pag. 77. this place I expresly noted That was therfore my meaning here if you would haue seene it In another place also b Pag. 33. you know that I say Hell as I take it that is such paines of Gods wrath is * Treat 1 pag. 80. sometime found in this life Thus then you might haue vnderstood my former wordes and not that the tormentes of Hell doe alwayes accompanie the wicked in this life I pray conceave not my meaning against my expresse wordes Againe c Pag 31â— you pretende to haue much against me where I say The feeling of the sorrowes of Gods wrath due to sinne in a broken and contrite heart is indeed the only true and perfitly accepted sacrifice to God True so I said and againe I say it What see you amisse in it Then vnhappy men are the godly which are at any time free from the paines of the damned To what purpose is this I speake of Christs Sacrifice I pray is any other Sacrifice perfitly accepted or a Sacrifice at all but Secondarily that is in and by Christes Sacrifice They are not His Sacrifice then is the onely true Sacrifice and perfitly accepted to God All others are imperfit and accepted not in them selues but only in and by Christ Thus your triumphes before the victorie come to nothing but blastes of vanitie But Augustin †Pag. 32 doth flatly deny that this text can be thus vnderstood or that Christes Soule might dy Austin d Epist 9â— denyeth that Christ suffied any paines of damnation locally in Hell after his death as it seemeth some helde about his time whoÌ„ here he laboureth to confute So that he meaneth to reprove onely the e See besâ—â—â— pag 139 1st sense of the Death of the Soule in him viz. that he suffred it not Ordinarily after the maner of other men nor any way locally Hâ— hath no nâ—cessarie cause to speak of the 2. sense thereof how the Soule may be said to suffer death Extraordinarily for sinne imputed only neither doeth he speake against that in Christ Nay according to Austins owne Definition of the Soules Dying it will easily appeare that Christes Soule may be said to have suffered some kinde of Death de verh 〈◊〉 Ser â—0 〈◊〉 Trin. 4. Saith he a Moritur anima si recedit Deus and b Mors est spiritûs deseri Ã
Deo The Death of the Soule is Gods Forsaking of it â—â—fore pag. â— 113. â— 108. 113 â— 134. But the Scripture saith God did leave him or forsake him for a season yea the Fathers also c agree fully therevnto the maner how d I have shewed before Therefore by Austins definition largly and rightly taken Christ may be said in some sense to haue dyed in Soule Howbeit though the Fathers doe graunt the thing in effect as I have shewed yet I acknowledge they doe deny this phrase generally and so doeth Austin in this place But thereabout we never made question this is no parte of our matter It may bee even for the same cause they shunned it for which we also doe vse it very rarely and warily as before I observed Pag 136. And let this be the Answere touching all your Fathers and Councells which you bring aboundantlie heere and there about this point of the Soules death Though peradventure some of them may seeme to insinuat even this very phrase touching Christ sometyme as in some I touched before Where you say â—â—g 317. †Aske the simplest child that is Catechized in my charge if I have any what death Christ dyed for vs and hee will answer me out of his Creed Christ was Crucified Dead Buried It is true But our authorized Catechisme published by M. Nowel and the Homily i sheweth the meaning heereof to be 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 67 117.â— that Christ suffered far more sharply theÌ„ meere bodily Death even the infinit paines of Gods wrath in his soul which I pointed you vnto k before but you fairly leape it over â—â—eat 1. pa. â— as also the Archb. speciall allowance with others of M. Now. Catechisme as being fully grounded on the word of God contayning the very doctrine of the Church of England Now to this effect the youths in my charge being asked would have answered surely For indeed such a charge in London I had I thank God wherin I hope I was faithfull according to my power might have coÌ„tinued had not your il seasoned teaching so contrary to the established doctrine in Englande burst foorth a You say â—ag 325. â—â—a 53.12 â—r hee powâ—â—◠〈◊〉 I should have don well to have laid that downe for a shew which is written in Esay b He c laid downe his Soule vnto death verily if I had it would have made som shew Considering that d Pa. â—6 you earnestly affirme that this word signifieth Soule or Spirit in a proper sense Also how resolute you are forbidding to e Pag. 1â— divert from the native proper significations of words but when the letter impugneth the groundes of Christian faith and charity This considered surely that in Esay maketh some shew indeede that Christ submitted and humbled and afflicted even his Soule to Death The rather if we note that which followeth He was counted with the sinners and bare the sinne of many That is he was punished by God as the sinners are f See besâ—â— pag. 76. punished and was not by the Iewes onely counted among Theeves But chiefly considering withall that also before g Isa 53. â— He made his soule a sinne offering Heere you must remember †Your pa. â— we shall leave nothing sound sure in Gods word if we may avoid all thinges by figures that please not our humours Therefore you must needes grant that Gods worde heere maketh Christs Soule to be †sacrificed for our sinne And we desire no other death of the Soule We deny not but this phrase AnimaÌ„ pâ—nere is to lay downe the life and in divers places signifieth no more then simply to Dy both concerning Christ and other men as you observe pag. 70. Yet this is no necessary reason that heere in J say the Soule should be taken figuratively for the Life onely the rather seeing heere the text precisely setteth down the great perfit worke of our RedemptioÌ„ And to take it as we do literally impugneth no ground at all of faith or Charity The like peradventure may bee affirmed also of that in Mathew h Mar 2â—â— The sonne of man came not to be served but to serve and to give his soule a ransom for many although the translatours commonly turne it his life But I wil not strive about these phrases Aust hath not a word against vs in that great place which i Pag. 32â— you cite his whole argumeÌ„t there being to another purpose The Iewes slew only the flesh of Christ and yet it is true that they slew Christ Who doubteth this Also where you thinke those words to be so k Pag. 327â— plaine and expresse as may be spoken so effectuall as Pauls heart could invent or his toung vtter that Christ reconciled vs to God in the body of his flesh through death we have answered you †Pag. 45. â— before As for al your other discourse heere against me it is as every where almost nothing but revilings and reproches and bitter skoffes Yet you say l Pag 108. â— you have not learned nor vsed to give reviling speaches Have you not learned it Is it then naturall vnto you Nay you meane m Pag. 264â— these are Fatherly Warnings and admonitions If your Fatherly admonitions are such what are your Lordly rebukes If these bee your Bishoply blessinges what are your Cursings But I am to blame heerein standeth not the tryall of our quaestion As for all thâ—se hogepots as n 〈◊〉 3â—8 you call them which you make of my wordes they are nothing but your owne either wilfull writhings or vncharitable surmises as by every particular in then places may be seene Finally that is not true where you say o 〈◊〉 330. Flesh doth often signifie the soule in vs. It signifieth often the whole Manhood togither in vs and so it may and doth in Christ aswell Also it signifieth in vs many times our whole and intire corrupt nature both in body and soule so it never signifieth in Christ And heere I desire the reader to change a word or two in my former Treatise Note â—reat 1. pa. â—6 lin 2. â—â—d lin 7. â— Cor. 7.1 for p allwayes to set vsually and for q a man to set Christ. Because since I find that Flesh and Spirit togeather applyed vnto men doe r once signifie meerely the Body and Soule which then I thought every where did signifie in vs our corrupt and regenerat man Which oversight the Bishop spyeth not but in this place coÌ„firmeth indeed Finally to make an ende with your Fathers and Councels it is strang that you thus vainly boast of them 〈◊〉 135.327 saying they are a all wholy for you for this 1400. yeares space I have shewed before that your large claime proveth a very short gaine For in substance and full effect they are evideÌ„tly and generally against you and for vs. As for their denying that Christ Dyed in his Soule I
the now L. Bishop of Winchester to begin among vs a new matter of faith neuer heard of before in England but only in the dayes of Popery touching the All sufficiency of the meere Bodily Sufferings of Christ and to maintaine an other which was neere worne out of his going downe to Hell in Soule In both which because my conscience assured mee that hee was much mistaken and laboured that others should mistake also I thought it not besides my duty the Lord offering me opportunity to maintaine the truth and that in all plainenes and evidence of the Scripture as God inabled me with This now a while since being published wherein my trust is I caryed my selfe no otherwise then J ought the Author and maintayner of the contrary hath so of late intertayned it as seemeth to mee and to many others wonderfull Wonderfull not for strength of reasons nor for exquisit matter such as neuer before was delivered though his learning J acknowledge and will not but reverence his gifts but wonderfull his answer is and altogeather extraordinary considering that such incomparable bitternes disdaine skoffing reproch and furious rage doth so abundantly com from him therein against my poore selfe being yet by the mercy of God a true Christian a Minister of the Gospel and one I praise the Lorde which euer haue bin carefull to bee free from the scandalls of the World Though heerein J boast not but rather with the Apostle will boast of mine infirmities Verily this now J haue learned by his writing better then euer I conceaued before namely what great oddes he maketh and desireth to be made betweene himselfe a Lord Bishop and an other being but a Preacher of Gods most holy word Well this is the Rhetorike and the ornaments of his Conclusion against my treatise But all this is besides his Matter which nevertheles may haue peradventure som weight in it It may peradventure Wherefore J see a double necessity vrging me to reply therevnto First to the end that his exceptions and reasons that is to say his wholl matter may appeare yet better to be so weake and vnsufficient as indeed they are See that those vncivill reproches I will not say vnchristian revilings being the bewty and forme of his booke may appeare to be but the froth of a distempered stomacke the colour of reason and iust cause which he casteth on it being taken away As touching the matter therefore thus I purpose to deale I will begin with his later writing which he calleth a Conclusion because he mainly directeth it against mee taking in by the way also all such places points in the former Treatise as do rightly concerne our matter in hand Finally as touching his reproches and cruell words I intend wholy to passe ouer them seeing for them neither is he any whit the better nor my selfe the worse The Defence of the Treatise of Christes sufferings against Maister Bilsons Conclusion HIs Conclusion for so he thinketh good to call it beginneth against me in his page 225. Wherein first he doeth change me in generall termes that I flee from the state of the Chiefe question and overskip his Authorities The like saith in Eâ— pag. 9. in his reasons I forget and dissemble what pleaseth my self in the defence of my holy cause as it pleaseth him to mocke I roue as I list neither keeping any order nor bringing any matter of moment coÌ„fusedly powring out the hasty resolutions of mine own braines spiced euery where with ignorant absurd positions proudly despising all authority antiquitie c. Al which words are but wind as I shal make it evident God willing wheÌ„ we com to view his particulars heerafter insuing Among which he * Pag. â— beginneh to iustifie that he mistooke not his Text when hee preached this doctrine But I wil speak thereof anon so that first I satisfie him in the most principal point of his challeÌ„ge against me Which is this “ Episâ— that I haue changed the first questioÌ„ that I set not down the state therof fully nor truly so I offer to prove that which he never denied I coÌ„fute that which he never affirmed Let vs ther fore coÌ„sider advisedly this questioÌ„ which I wil set downe again as exactly as plainly as I can that we may see how far I erred froÌ„ it before We affirme That Christ in his Soul suffered all Gods proper Wrath and vengeance being paines and punishment for sinne no sinne also as touching the essence or nature thereof The suâ— whole out 1. â— and so farre as was due Generally for all mankinde to suffer His contrary opinion we conceaue thus That Christ suffered for our sinnes nothing ells but simply and “ or 〈◊〉 his Hoâ— fectioÌ„s â—â—tio and meerely a Bodily death altogither like as the godlie and holy men do often suffer at the handes of persecutors saving only that God accepted this death of his Sonne as a ransom for sinne but the death of his servants be doth not The Opening of the whole staâ—e of this Question For the better vnderstanding whereof we must note these principall things taine spe I things to â—oted First that All suffering of Paines in man is froÌ„ God either properly from his Iustice or from his Holy Love either froÌ„ him alone or also from his Instruments and inferior meanes Againe Al suffering of Paines is for Sinne either inherent or imputed either as Correction or as Punishment either immediatly or mediatly as anon we shall further see Sec By the Lawe of our Creation as we are men having a Soule besides our Body so our Soule hath in it a 3. fold faculty of Suffering Paines First that which is Proper and immediat iustly so called â—ee kindes 〈◊〉 Soâ—â—es â—â—â—ing of 〈◊〉 Proper because it is proper only to reasonable and immortall Spirites although in men if it grow vehement it affecteth coÌ„sequently the Body also Immediat 2. wayes 1. because it can doth receave an impression of sorrow and Paines made from God only by and in it selfe without any outward bodily meanes therevnto 2. It is also an Immediat Punishment or els Correction of sinne it cometh not for any other cause at all So that thus we meane when we speake of the Soules Proper and Immediat Suffering The Soules second faculty of Suffering paines is not Proper but Common to vs with Beasts namely that which is by Sympathy Communion with and from the Body For which cause also it is not Immediat sith it commeth not to the Soule but by externall bodily meanes A third kind of painful Suffering the Soule hath namely her vehemeÌ„t strong AffectioÌ„s are Painful whether they be good or evill As Zeale Love CoÌ„passion Pity Care c. Neither are these immediatly for Sinne whether Punishmentes or Corrections but they com for and by other immediat causes â—â—tions no â—â—at â—or 〈◊〉 Punish 〈◊〉 5. neither are they Punishments or Corrections at all
Properly in them selves Accidentally they may be when they growe so strong that they paine and grieve the Soule These 2. later kinds of the Soules Suffering you acknowledg to have ben in Christ the 1. kinde you vtterly deny â—â—g 5. 6. 16 〈◊〉 253. â— 255. 335 Now I affirme that Christ tasted also the 1st kinde For how could the Proper and principall Humane Suffering be not in him â—â—â—br 2.10 a Man made of God to * Suffer for all our Sinnes So this in a maner is the point of our CoÌ„troversie And verily how you can deny the same by the Scripture yet acknowledging withall a true and perfit Humaine Soule in Christ I cannot see Namely seeing iust occasion heereof was giuen him from God as afterward shall further appeare You * pa. 248. seeme to sticke at those termes which I vse The Soules proper and immediat suffering you call them “ pa. 257. 336. vnsalted and vnsetled But any may see how easy they are to bee vnderstood and also that wee must in this quaestion necessarily thus distinguish the same from that which is by sympathy is comon to vs with other creatures Thirdly wee must also note that God himselfe is alwayes and evermore the principall and proper punisher then when the Soule suffereth paines after the first maner that is in her proper and immediat faculty of suffering And that is alwayes immediatly for sinne also not for any other cause at all Gods owne almighty power armed with iustice in burning wrath thus punisheth sinne somtime more somtime lesse when and how it pleaseth him Fourthly God himself therfore was thus the principall and only proper Punisher of Christ as hee sustayned the punishment of our sinnes The Divells and wicked men his Persecutours did their parts also indeed for other ends but yet they were all as Instruments only vsed by God vnto his owne end namely that Christ might pay heereby a iust price and full satisfaction for our sinnes It was then the Almighty and most iust God himselfe in his severe wrath against our sin that principally properly inflicted on Christ the paines and punishments which he as our Surety suffered for the paying of our Ransom As it is written “ Isa 53. â— The Lord laid vpon him the punishment of vs all Whatsoever you have against this afterward we shall consider it in due place Fiftly we meane not that in God was is or can be any †As youâ— serve wâ— pag. 24â— perturbatioÌ„ at all and therefore consequently no Wrath nor Hatred as is in vs. But because Wee painfully afflict others with whom commonly wee are Angry and we discerne somtime and see paines inflicted on men by God therefore we say he sheweth his anger and wrath vpon them whom hee punisheth Nevertheles wee must note especially that to suffer as the Godly doe Chastisements and corrections is not to suffer or feele Gods Wrath nor indeed the pumishment of sinne except it bee in a very vnproper speach To suffer the true punishment satisfaction proper payment wages of sinne only that is to suffer properly and truly the Wrath and Curse of God Now then seeing the paines which Christ for vs did feele were indeed properly the Punishment and Paiment and vengeance for sinn such as the Godly do in no wise suffer Christ only having wholly suffered that for vs all Therefore indeed his sufferings proceeded from Gods proper wrath and were the true effects of Gods meere Iustice bent to take recompence on him for out offences the Godly never suffering any thing at all in such respect Sixt These paines which Christ suffered as the proper Punishment and Price of sinne and inflicted on him even by Gods own hand did not make smart and anguish only in his flesh or onely in the sensitive part of the Soule by mutuall coniuction sympathy with the body but of necessity must also be deepely conceaved felt in the vnderstanding and Mind of Christ Now how deepe this was as we neither do nor can precisely affirme so we are well assured that the sense of paine was not lessened nor abated in Christ needlesly Hee suffered doubtles according as sinne deserved in every point except only in such respects as were flatly impossible For the better vnderstanding whereof wee are heere to note another principalll distinction â—â—â—fering of â—aines for sin 〈◊〉 fold â—or sinne inâ—â—eâ—ent and â—â—puted that there are 3. divers and severall sortes of suffering paines directly for sinne 1. As the wicked and damned do that is by suffering the proper wrath of God truly punishing in them that is properly in their Soules aswell as in their Bodies their sinnes in whom togeather with their paines there is also inherent sinne abiding and imputed the cause of all their punishments with the the adiuncts and consequents thereof desperation induration blaspheming reiection malediction hatred and finall dereliction with such like These are certain proper and right conditions of the reprobat heere of the damned in Hell â—â—r sinne inâ—â—â—ent but 〈◊〉 imputed which Christ never tasted 2. The godly in this world do suffer paines for their sinnes But these whatsoever they be yea though death it selfe are improperly called Punishments as was before noted â—â—ch 12.5 â— 7 8 9 10 â— they are * Chastisements of sinne Yea they are partly remembrances to cause repentance of sinne past presently inherent partly Chastisements to humble vs and to mortifie sinne in vs more and more hereafter And thus they are in no sort inflicted on vs as very Curses by Gods Wrath and Iustice properly so called but properly by Gods Holynes and Love as after wee shall further see These are the ordinary wayes of suffering for sinne but nothing appertayning to Christ neither 3. 3 Suffering sinne not haerent yet impuâ—â—â— There is another peculiar and extraordinary way belonging onely to Christ according to which Christ suffered for sinne distinct and greatly differing from both the former and yet in some speciall points agreeing with both 1. Christ suffered for sinne being sinles indeed How Châ—st sufferings those of thâ— Godly dâ—gree Hoâ— they diffeâ—â— as the Godly also are sinles “ Rom. 4. by imputation Againe their sufferings are temporary and in this life only such also were his But Christes sufferings were exceeding much differing from ours 1 in that his sufferings were for our sinnes now made his by Gods accoumpt and ours are for our owne Also his were the true and proper Punishment or iust vengeance of God for sinne ours onely Chastisements and remembrances which belonged nothing at all to him His the true effects of Gods severe and iust Wrath properly taken ours are from his iustice wrath improperly so called Touching the Reprobats and damned How the sufâ—â—rings of Châ—â—â—â— and of thâ—â— Damned 〈◊〉 differ 1. their sufferings are for sinnes inhaerent Christes were for sinnes only imputed So that Gods Anger
was not against Christes owne person but against the sinnes which by his office in his own person he sustayned the sorrow and paines whereof touched his very person 2. Their punishments are partly in this life and partly eternall in the life to come but Christes were temporary and only in this life 3. Their sinne being inherent not forgiuen and iustly punished they haue all the properties and Concomitants of sinne inherent never forgiuen but in wrapped in eternall punishments as these Desperation the stinge of Conscience Induration Reiection Malediction Dereliction c. But in Christ where no sinne was inhaerent nor eternally punished there could vtterly be none of these 4. They are pumished heere chiefly in Hell the proper place of the damned heereafter but Christ suffered onely heere in this life Lastly their tormeÌ„ts though euerlasting deserue nothing at Gods hands but Christ though suffering but for a while deserued infinitly favour and grace for them for whom he suffered Howbeit as I said the sufferings of the damned are all one with Christes How the suâ—â—â—rings of Châ—â—â—â— and of thâ—â—â— Damned 〈◊〉 the same as touching the Nature of the punishments and as touching the chiefest causes thereof First God himselfe was the proper and principall Ordayner Author and Executor of his punishment Gods owne hand did it to Christ no lesse then to the damned Sec Christ having most horrible sinnes imputed to him as the damned haue also therefore he suffered for them from Gods hand euen as the damned do namely in these points which are both possible and reasonable that is paines inflicted immediatly and properly in the Soule and not only by outward meanes in the Body For it is most reasonable and possible that the Soule of Christ should haue our sinne imputed to it yea principally to it and not to the Body only even as wee commit sinne in our wholl manhood but yet principally in by our Soule Which being true that Christes reasonable Soule had sinne imputed principally to it according to that of the Prophet He made his Soule sinne Isa 53.10 therefore his Soule principally peculiarly did suffer for it Also his Soule by nature being capable of suffering from Gods very hand an occasion now serving therevnto because of all our sinnes wholly imputed to him lastly God himselfe standing now disposed to punish and revenge sinne in him so far as he was capable thereof therefore his punishment for that sinne was a true proper full punishment as theirs is namely as touching meere paines and was the effect of Gods proper Wrath iustice and vengeance as well on his Soule as on his Body thus for the time it was even like as the sufferings of the damned are â—a 53.134 For * continuance of time in paines is not of the nature of Hel paines or of Gods Wrath Pag. 341. nor yet to be in Hell locally as you wrongly imagin but meere circuÌ„stances ther of only Thus the very nature of punishment for sinne being but the feeling of extreamest paines from Gods hand whether for a time or for ever whether locally in Hell or ells where that neither altereth nor lesseneth the present paines which Gods owne infinit wrathfull power iustice can inflict for satisfaction where and how it pleaseth him These paines then to this end and in this very manner inflicted Christ felt Indeed not being in the locall Hell yet those being as wee see the self same paines for their nature which are in Hell â—ag 247. yea which are * sharpest in Hell And he discerned and receaved them properly yea only in his very Soule as then was manefest when his body was so brused with sorrowes and sufferings yet none at all then touching him without that there strayned out from him much sweat of clotted blood c. These things being thus now let vs see wherein you agree with vs 〈◊〉 248. and wherein you disagree We all agree in termes That Christ suffered in soule Gods Wrath howbeit touching the sense we disagree in 2. maine pointes The iâ—â—â— the qâ—â—â— I affirme that Christ suffered Gods Proper Wrath and vengeance you meane hee suffered only such afflictions as other godly men do suffer at the handes of the wicked and cruell world For “ Pa. 1â— you thinke all Afflictions whatsoever small or great towards whomsoever are the effects of Gods Wrath. But that is not so except in a most vnproper speach To the godly their Afflictions both small and great are Gods Fatherly and gracious Chastisements and no effects of his proper Wrath as shall appeare further heereafter Howbeit you must observe heere my 3. limitations which I set down in the * Beforâ— Quaestion 1. I meane he suffered only that proper Wrath of God which was meerely Punishment for sinne and no sinne 2. This also hee suffered as touching the Substance and Nature of the Paines not as touching the Circumstances either of of Place or Continuance c. 3. I meane hee suffered not every particular Punishment of sinne nor that which every particular sinner meeteth with all but the Generall Curse and Punishment of God for sinne namely that which belongeth in Gods Iustice to All men in Common and Generally who abide in sinne Now after these necessary limitations the maine point wherein we further disagree is this I affirme that Christ Suffered All Gods proper Wrath and vengeance for sinne namely so described and limited as is above said I say All that which the very Damned doe suffer Christ thus did suffer for vs and therefore even a Proper and immediat sense in his Soule of Gods Proper most painfull Wrath his infinit and vntolerable burning Wrath. Which what toung is it that can expresse or hearte conceaue Yet Christs Humane Soule was apt and able to feele it though not to sustaine it A iust occasion in him was offered therevnto for then he stood foorth as the only and absolute Ransompayer of all our debt And Gods vnpartiall Iustice dispenseth not without necessitie Yea where he cometh to Punish he layeth it on finding sinne vnsatisfied as he doth inhaerent in the wicked and as he did imputed in Christ our surety till he had by †Heb â—â— Sufferings accomplished finished perfitly his RedemptioÌ„ for vs. Your Aâ—â— on wâ—â—â—â—gain saâ—â— Christ â—â—red iâ—â—â— only 〈◊〉 froÌ„ hiâ— But this is far greater then as you hold that He suffered no more but meere Bodily paines that is in his Soule by froÌ„ his Body This is your drift every where but I note these expresse places â—â—g 16. * Sin which should have wrought in vs an eternall destruction both of Body and Soule could not farther prevaile in him but to the wounding of his flesh and sheding of his bloud for the iust full satisfactioÌ„ of all our sinnes even in the righteous and syncere iudgment of God Likewise your generall Title is The Full redemtion of mankind
by the death and bloud of Christ. So you commend the force and frute of his bodily death as most sufficient â—ag 84. â—â—g 88. And * the bodily death of Christ payeth the price of our Redemption â—ag 335. it removeth all the impediments of our salvation The ioynt sufferings of Christ the Soule feeling what the Body suffered were most avaylable for our salvation â—â—g 336. †The violence was offered to the Body the sense whereof reached vnto the Soule and these are the sufferings of the Crosse and of death which the Scriptures attribute to the Sonne of God for our salvation â—â—g 60. 58. There is no other sacrifice of Christs Soule which can be neither bodily nor bloudy * The iustice of God both temporally and eternally punisheth the Soule only by the Body 〈◊〉 254. 255 Nevertheles contrariwise you seeme some where to yeeld wholly so much as we affirme â—â—g 17. As where you say The same part might indeed suffer in Christ which sinned in man J meane the Soule If you meane as you seeme and as you ought that as every part and faculty of the Soule is in vs sinfull so in Christ it suffered for our sinne then in his Soule he suffered for sinne properly and immediatly that is in his very Mind from the immediat hand of God not only from and by his Body 〈◊〉 87. 4. Againe you allow in Christ * All those afflictions and passions of the Soule which naturally and necessarily follow paine This All reacheth vnto mo and more grievous paines then the meere bodily are it includeth the Soules porper immediat paines also 〈◊〉 138. And yet playner Smart paine and grief of body or mind bee it never so great will commend his obedience and patience 〈◊〉 286. And * the punishment of sinne which proceedeth from the iustice of God and is no sinne that Christ might and did beare Yea he suffered death with all painfull 〈◊〉 87. but no sinfull concomitants and consequents 〈◊〉 76. And * nothing might befall the humane nature of Christ which was vnfitting for his Diuine Whence we gather vnderstanding you in the best sence that whatsoeuer was fitting for his Divine nature to admit of in his Humanity that his humane nature did feele Consequently then he felt all the paines of the damned which were no sinnes neither indeed perpetuall seeing his Divine nature could admitt this in his Manhood aswell as any suffering at all for sinne You will say If hee felt not also desperation as the damned do then hee felt not all the paines which the damned do feele For desperation augmenteth their very paines I answere we say not that Christ suffered simply All the paines of the damned that is He felt not such as are by their very nature sinnes aswell as paines as indeed desperation is But I say Christ suffered none of those paines All other which are by their nature meere paines and onely painfull Christ did suffer them as sharply for the time we doubt not as the very damned do So that if your L. will stand to that which before we obserued in you and not clip it not renounce it we professe this is all that ever we did or do craue wee neede no longer to striue it is the wholl question which you grant vs viz That Christ did beare punishment of sinne as great as any is proceeding from the Justice of God yet being no sinne Whence it must needes follow that the paines of Christes suffering were the same in nature and altogeather as sharpe and as painfull as they are in Hell it self And this is the whol summe of the matter about Christes Hellish sorrowes and paines thus standeth our quaestion with these differences according to which we hold and professe that Christ suffered the Wrath of God or Hell paines If you set the question otherwise you go back from that which you found fault withall in your Sermons you fully ioyne with the Preachers and Catechismes of England yea withall other Protestants in the world and namely with all them whom at first you reproued and traduced openly for this cause There is none of them I assure you that euer spake or meant any more then this issue delivereth If you agree to this I beseech you what wisedom shewed you in your whot confutations exclamations so vehemently to condemne you knewe not what and to reprove you knew not whom Further if any do teach that Christ suffered the paines of Hell in a grosse and locall maner though you most iniuriously do invey at vs for such a matter yet verily it is neerer your owne assertion then ours if you be well observed For seeing you determine simply that Christ might did suffer such punishment of sinne which proceeds from the iustice of God and is no sinne it seemeth by your speech that Christ did suffer Torments even locally in Hell it selfe for that had ben a punishment that is no sinne â—â—â—â—â—icus â—â—â—â—â—st Latiâ—â—â—er Act. â—â—â—â—on that in deed some learned and godly men did hold but erroneouslie As for vs somway we avouch your sentence also that Christ suffered whatsoeuer punishment of sinne which proceeded from the iustice of God is no sinne but yet with expresse limitation froÌ„ Scripture namely in CircuÌ„stances as I shewed viz. in this world only not after his crosse at all nor locally among the damned So that thus we say it is not true that Christ suffered the paines of Hell 〈◊〉 hold not 〈◊〉 at Christ â—â—â—fered simâ—â—y the parâ—â—s of Hell which yet those your fore-noted indefinit wordes doe import Nay speaking exactly wee vse not this terme of Hell neither delight we to vse it ofteÌ„ in any regard about our maine Quaestion because we finde not this word literally and expreslie applied to Christes sufferinges in the Scripture Howbeit sometimes we speake so I graunt and I thinke that wee may well doe so As also 〈◊〉 â—ny other â—â—â—nts of Reâ—â—â—on are â—â—â—yme afâ—â—â—ned vtâ—â—â—ed when we vnderstand it by plaine Consequence froÌ„ Scripture for the extreame paines of Gods proper wrath vengeance for sinne from which euen Hell it selfe is not separated yea Gods very wrath is a parte and the greatest parte of Hell paines Or els Metaphorically when we haue to set out with an emphasis the most dolefull and incomparable paines of Christes sufferinges as they appeared onely to the sense of men not otherwise Which it seemeth your selfe also liketh well enough 〈◊〉 8. â—34 â—â—9 But howe badly then doe you vrge vpon vs and perswade men that we doe must say in maintenance of this our Question â—â—imious â—â—â—tation 〈◊〉 1.8.244 â—â—7 264 â—â—0 34â— * that Christ suffered All the sorrowes of Hell the whole Curse of God his whole wrath and All the very Torments of the damned and that in such sense as you make of those wordes that is including in
them the Locall Hell eternall punishment Diminution of faith Holines c. with Desperation â—reat 1. â—â— 40 Reiection vtter darknes c As for my wordes which you wrest that way they are cleared by my Opening this Question both before and after Wherefore wee plainly tell you that we defie and detest in our heartes as well as you all these blasphemous wicked thoughtes of the Sonne of God our most glorious and gratious Redeemer And yet if you had vnderstoode those Phrases the whole Câ—rse of God His whole Wrath All the sorrowes of Hell onely toâ—ching the sense of Meere paines that Christ feeling the proper wrath and Iustice of God punishing him for our sinnes felt as extreeme sharpnes of paines which had no mixture of sinne as may in any possibilitie be endured yea though in Hell it selfe and so a kinde also of “ As in 〈◊〉 place I 〈◊〉 â—hew forsaking in them a kinde of * Such as 〈◊〉 self explaiâ—â—â— pag. 245 And as 〈◊〉 Curse is nâ— words bâ— deeds pa. Cursing and hatred and condemnation and a sense of burning wrath which he being our high Priest and Sacrifice was appointed vnto and which payment of ours was by God layed vpon him being our Redeemer and Ransompayer Surety and that all this he sustayned and suffered for a time in this life so deeply wofully as was possible for a man any where to suffer which was also wery God I say if this had ben your meaning we would not then hold it blasphemous nor erronious as “ Epiâ—p you obiect it vnto vs but the very truth indeed to say Hee suffered the true paines of Hell and the wholl wrath of God Which verily your own words also in some places do imply yea at least so much and that manifestly enough it seemeth as before I haue observed But to wade further then this and to particularize or to specifie the parts of Gods wrath which Christ felt as * Pa. â—47 you will vs to do or to shew the manner how or the certaine measure how deepely he suffered it what madnes were it in men to attempt and what folly is it in any to requier This sufficeth that we know God is able aswell out of the locall Hell as in it to reveale and inflict spiritually this wrath where he findeth sinne vnsatisfied and in Christ the vnion of his Godhead might admit it in his Manhood his Soule was capeable apt to discerne and feele immediatly the impression thereof in it selfe Now because also God was heere bent to punish all our most horrible sinnes in Christ and he was ordained to receave the same vpon himselfe and God was never to punish them truly any more nor any where ells and because of the proportion of Gods exact Iustice which dispenseth not where there is no necessitie for dispensation because also of Christes taking our wholl nature for no needfull purpose at all without this and lastly by reason of many pregnant texts of Scripture proving by infallible arguments that thus surely it was in this mystery of Christs purchasing our redemption which you in all your writing have no whit defeated therefore we are vndoubtedly perswaded that this is the very truth of God Namely as “ Treat 80.81.7 before I taught as touching the sense of paine and vehemency of sorrow that Christ suffered for vs All and wholly the wrath of God and his bitter Curse That is as I said so far as * Pa. 37. possibillity would admit so far as he being also very God and a man not possible to sinne could suffer Neither is there any peece of reason on your parte for the contrary And this is much more I trust then to suffer in Soule by Sympathy only from and by and with the Body Pag. 13.14 which as before I shewed you plainly do make the only wholl suffering of Christ for our Redemption which kindâ— of suffering all Godly men doe suffer also when the wicked in the world do afflict and persecute them But touching suffering of Martiâ—s and godly men Pag. 8.11 it is not intruth as †before is shewed of that kinde as Christes suffering was and therefore this suffering of the Soule onely by Sympathy commeth nothing neere to the sorrowes of the suffering of Christ which hee suffered from the hand of Gods offended Iustice and pure Holines and Wrathfull power infinitly satisfying it selfe on him for our sinnes which by his office he receaved vpon himselfe to acquite vs from the same This no Martir nor godly man doth who suffer only as from the malice and rage of men â—â—â—d therefore â—â—â—ey are so â—â—â—eerefull at â—â—â—eir Death â—â—â—hen Christe is extremeâ—â—â— sorrowfull from God there proceedeth nothing but fatherly chastenings to them his very wrath indeed for their sinnes appeareth not at all against them which they know Christ hath once borne and for ever dissolved You haue wordes in some places as if you hâ—ld this difference with vs of Christes sufferinges compared with the suffering of Martirs Namely where you say Pag. 248 Christ suffered the wrath of God punishing sinne â—ag 257 not * in his Body only but in his Soule also by some proper punishments of the Soule as by sorrow and feare in his Agony c. Howbeit though these wordes seeme plaine yet I perceave ambiguity and fallacy in them yea also I thinke a great errour First your fallacy is in that you meane sorrow and feare indeed properly in his Soule but not any proper Punishment of sinne nor comming for any paine or smart that he felt inflicted for sinne but it was meere Devotion to God 2 1â—4.23.9 144 290 Love pity compassion towards men Which say you could not be without some feare and zeale and griefe That is true but this is a notable fallacy For many thinke that you meane Christ suffered such sorrow and paine as was both proper to the Soule and was the proper punishment of sinne also But then had you heerein fully agreed with vs. Nowe that Religious Devotion godly and â—â—â—tâ—ous Aâ—â—tions and Pity are properly partes of Christes Holines and righteousnes not of his Sufferings for sinne For these 2. parts of Christes Mediation I trust you will distinguish And surely Christs Agonie was properly a part of his most bitter Passion not of his Obedience and Righteousnes albeit even in suffering also he was perfitly obedient Thus then you are never the neerer to the truth in this point for all your seeming Againe considering what you write of the wrath “ Pa. 130 132.246 of God which the Godly generally do suffer you seeme to me to thinke that every Martiâ—s death and all the crosses and griefes both of body and minde in the godly are very * For yoâ— make Gâ—â— Wrath â—â—â—ferent to men who afflicted punishments of sinne and right effects of Gods Iustice and wrath taking properly vengeance on them
for sinne in such maner as he doth on the Reprobat though not in such measure and that such likewise were Christs sufferings But then I deny that therein yow have the truth or have rightly expressed the sufferinges of Christ or of his Saintes Because the sufferings of the Saintes are properly not punishmeÌ„ts for sinnes nor effects of Gods wrath properly but are indeed fatherly profitable chastisements purposely inflicted by God for their good as before is said But Christes were altogeather of another nature and condition they were the only true and proper punishment price Satisfaction and Ransom for sinnes as hath ben also noted before after shal be further shewed If you vnderstand Christes suffering Gods Wrath to be such as the godly feele viz improperly and largely as the Scriptures †In your 13â— there do meane and not as the very price and punishment for sinne but only as Chastisements then that is likewise manefestly vntrue Also then againe for your words you are ambiguous and deceiptfull in this issue which kinde of vanity you commonly vse in all other your handling of controversies since you left writing against the Papistes as who so looketh shall see For wee affirming that Christ felt the wrath of God doe meane it properly as it inflicteth properly the punishment and Wages of sinne Your Equâ—cation in terme Gâ—â— Wrath. and you tell vs that he suffered Gods wrath as the Saints and Godly men doe suffer it That is altogeather vnproperly beeing sometime so called for a certain seeming that it hath to bee so as you acknowledge in the sense of flesh and bloud Then what is this to our purpose What ells do you worke heerein but deceipt mistaking to the Reader through the ambiguity of this word the Wrath of God Which palpable fallacy of yours is so plaine that I need not stand to open it any further and yet I assure my selfe that this is the very ground and refuge of the errour in this Question Which if a man marke well distinguish as he ought and may easily do he shall quickly drive you either to shift into this corner Your Equiocation or ells to deny much of that which you affirme in your booke elswhere Therefore lett the wise consider it Neverthelesse if happily you meane otherwise that is Pas you seeme 〈◊〉 meâ—â—â— paâ—â—â—01 105 that Christes very * outward sufferings and bodily death were in a peculiar sort the effects of Gods proper wrath thus truly punishing our sinnes on him then in effect you come to vs againe of yow will sticke but to this For there is no reason in the worlde to make Christes flesh subiect to Gods Curse for sinne and not his Minde and soule likewise Also wee must note that such outward bodily sufferings beeing indeede punishments and not chastisements for sinne that is proper effects of Gods very wrath and iustice comming to take vengeance for sinne they cannot be meere bodily sufferings nor meerly felt by sympathy in the Soule which is the proper effect of the outward sensitive facultie only but they must of necessity be conceaved discerned applyed in the inward feeling of the Minde of Christ â—â—d 〈◊〉 deny at â—â—â—nce that Mens â—â—â—ules haue â—â—â—ny sense in yeâ—â—he â—inde beâ—â—â—des the Comâ—â—â—â— sense deâ—â—nding on â—â—â—e Body and will make a singular and secret impression of sorrow in the Soule far above all meere bodily griefes beyond all measure and proportion of things in ordinary experience so exceedingly differing from all other sufferings in this life Which therefore may iustly bee termed the proper and immediat sufferings of his Soule And this sense the Lord doubtles revealeth vpon men somtime more somtime lesse in this life even as it pleaseth him Which also befell vnto Christ Againe Pag. 257. if the Agonie and sorrow which you grant Christ suffered simply in his minde be meant by you to have ben as it were a foretast of such sufferings and a feare or dread of them as very iustly it may be considering the weake disability of a Creature to stand vp against the Creator Propathia namely now shooting or preparing to shoote presently the sharpe arrowes of his wrath vpon him for our sinnes in which case and condition Christ now stood for that while then I say also I see in effect no difference betwene vs then againe this Question is as it were at an end For doubtles he suffered at one time or other the same thing which he so feared Yea such a kind of fearing cannot be but a mighty suffering thereof Neither doe wee contend to expresse what iust measure of Gods wrath nor precisely in what manner it was revealed and executed on Christ Onely wee know that whatsoever it were Gods very wrath and proper vengeance for sinnes though outwardly executed on the Body yet it could not but sinke in deeper even into the deapth of the Soule and be discerned by Christ and conceaved to be such and so sustayned as proceeding from God and so wound the Soule properly yea chiefly though the anguish thereof bruized his body iointly also Againe whatsoever you wil call it All or * Such 〈◊〉 as waâ— nothinâ— whol 〈◊〉 sinfull 〈◊〉 rents oâ—â— part of Gods proper Wrath and vengeance as it proceeded from him was incomprehensible vnspeakeable infinit and vntolerable to any creature therefore so it was vnto the very Manhood of Christ namely when the Godhead for a season concealed it self of purpose and with held his wonted supportation and comfort from him to the end that his bitter Passion ordayned of God and most voluntarily vndertaken by himselfe might bee in suffering the “ The 〈◊〉 Paines rowes 〈◊〉 sin werâ—â—â— Christ foâ—â— time no qualifye◠〈◊〉 lessened sorrows and paines which were due to vs nothing qualified but in all severity accomplished As indeed when his Hower was come and gon it was As touching that terme The death of his Soule which you stumble at we shall speake thereof heereafter in due place Thus far I have proceeded in opening the true state of this Quaestion which whether you who have begon to avouch the contrary will now acknowledge and approve or not I know not Overthrow it I trust you shall never with all the cunning and strength you have For vndoubtedly it is and so will appeare by the word to be a manefest truth and therefore “ Act. 5â— will prevaile besides that it is expresly the doctrine taught and established by authority in England as heereafter God willing I shall plainly shew notwithstanding all your strange coÌ„tradicting traducing thereof Lastly whether I did set down this very state of the quaestion in full effect in my former Treatise or whether I changed it though indeed I graunt I was there much shorter then I am heere I pray you looke consider againe in that my †Pag. 5 33. and first booke This being well considered and marked will
it Nâ—â—nim ipsâ—â— in celo â—â—rus crat â—â—mo Chrâ—â— Iesus Divine presense in Paradice But you refuse that because * Pag. 21 wee have no warrant in the word of God to fasten Christs Soule vnto Hell for the time of his Death that it might not be in Paradise before he descended to Hell Third You “ Pa. 196 renounce Austen and as he saith almost all the Church thinking that Christ loosed Adam and som others whom he thought good out of the paines of Hell wherein till his going thither they were held Fourth Against all the Fathers * Pa. 188 200. you affirme it to bee more then manefest that Christ did not fetch the Patriarches out of Limbo Patrum a certaine region of rest vnder the earth as they generally thought Fift “ Pa. 18â— You renounce divers Fathers opinion that * None eâ—â— Martyrs tull none do go into Heaven till after the last Judgment Thus we observe your liberty in leaving the Fathers when you see cause Why deny you vnto vs the like If we bring not as good reason to dissent as you do whensoever we vary from them let vs heare of it and beare the blame iustly This only we desire that in any case of Religion the bare custom of times the opinioÌ„ of men and authority meerely Humane should never barre vs from receaving the simplicity and evidence of the truth concerning vs which appeareth in the Scripture But now that we may proceede let vs see your speciall examples pag. 229. wherein you will make it manefest that J have despised the Fathers First pag. 229. * where you say out of certaine Fathers That Christ in his dying gaue vp his Spirite miraculously pag. 7. * no violence of Death wresting it from him as it doth ours pag. 229. but when hee saw his time hee even at an instant laid it downe of himselfe no paines hastening his death Heb. 4.15 Contrary to this I alleaged the Scripture He was like vs in all things sinne only excepted To answer this * you reply Was he like vs in his birth Pag. 230. Can we lye in the Grave without corruption as he lay Neither yet his flesh ly he Grave hoat possiâ—â—y to cotâ—â—t otherwise â—n as his â—â—es possibly â—â—d not be â—â—en Or raise our selves from death as he did Which poore answere I wonder to see comming from you Aswell you might shew further He was not like vs in that he walked vpon the water nor in that he fasted 40. dayes nor in that he knew the secrets of mens hearts nor in that he turned water into wine and with a word healed all diseases c. These things don by his Manhood yet were they the proper effects of his Godhead they were no naturall but supernaturall thinges But this text to the Hebrues saith onely of naturall Humane properties and infirmities that Christ in them was altogeather like vs sinne excepted Also this maner of Dying whereof we speake that is by sore wounds and blowes by sharpe outrages and deadly paines to draw neerer and neerer to Death is a meere natural infirmity and incident to all men Therefore surely in this very maner did Christ dy also like as all men vse to do in such case Againe those Divine effectes which you mention are iustly beleeved to haue bene in Christ Why Because of the expresse Scripture that * witnesseth the same 〈◊〉 1.23 25.1.2.27 â—â—â—n 1.3 4. â— 1.10.18 Let mee see expresse words in the text that he Dyed as you say not naturally but Miraculously and then will I beleeue it also You cite certain places by which you would prove it â—â—h 10.18 As No man taketh my soule from me but J lay it down of my selfe c. Hee meaneth heere that his Death was meere voluntary freely vndertaken and willingly of his owne accord perfourmed with such naturall and ordinary infirmities as belong to a man As you confesse somwhere * So that to dy even in Christ â—â—g 161. was infirmity though voluntary Heere then Christ denyeth that hee suffered any thing as forced on him by constraint violence but he sheweth that himselfe was altogeather willing even to Dy for his people which also “ pag. 11â— you plainly see How will you hence conclude Ergo He dyed miraculously not by any fayling of the strength of nature in him notwithstanding all his most intolerable sorrowes and paines This is truly a miraculous argument As for Chrisostom whom * pag. â—3â— you cite heerevpon he hath nothing for this point Though it were new not ordinary that Christ a man should haue power to lay down his life and power to take it againe yet why may not his manhood dy naturally notwithstanding But you will conclude this better If I deny you say this that Chrisostom saith I must remember what God himself saith “ Luc. 12. O foole this night shall they fetch away thy soule from thee I remeÌ„ber it well What then Ergo Christ saying None taketh my life from me c. meant that he would dy miraculously and not by the fayling of nature in him If this be the reason as I take it to bee verily I grant it is marveylous subtile and past my reach Further * pag. 7. you cite that “ Ion. 19. When Jesus had tasted the vineger he said All is finished and bowed the head and gave vp the Ghost What proveth this Surely that at last after long and sore anguish of minde and bodily torments his naturall strength fayled him therefore he bowed his head and gaue vp the Ghost What miracle is there in this But Barnard saith this proveth plainly an infinit power Which doth His tasting the vineger or his saying it is finished or his bowing the head or his giving vp the Ghost For my part I can not yet see any infinit power in any of these Wherefore I can not rest on Barnard heere except you for him do finde out som other point in the text to prove plainly an infinit power shewed openly in the maner of the Death of Christ which yet I see not Giue me leaue to refuse the Fathers in such a case which your selfe doth as we saw before Then you alleage that * Luke 23. Iesus cryed with a lowd voyce a little while before he dyed to shew himself “ pag 7. say you to be free from any touch of death How are you sure of that What Scripture saith so Or is there absolut necessitie in reason that it must be so Questionles none at all Is it a thing not possible that Christ should cry alowd saying Father into thy hands J commend my Spirit and even anon after dy and yet nature to haue ben weaker in him and so himself neerer to death now at last then he was before in the beginning of his Passion Let all wise men iudge If this be not possible I will
others do make all one But I have stood too long on these tryfles Now you will shew some examples of my mistaking or perverting your owne reasons 〈◊〉 31. For these hitherto were not his but the Fathers opinions as before I noted I marveyle then why he troubleth him selfe and vs with them if they be not his specially if he propound them not to be receaved Why laboureth hee so to distract vs with such varieties And then to tell vs they are not his but other mens Yet such mens he telleth vs they are as that it must not be for our Credit to refuse them Thus the poore people are strangely taught thus the world shal be filled full of ambiguities doubtfulnes variety of opinion in matters of Religion and withall forbidden to rest vpon any certaine and particular reason as also he dealeth in other cases But I omit to prosecute this any further For we shall now see some of his owne matters which I have ignorantly or purposely perverted First “ pag. 2â— he telleth vs that In the Effectes of Christes Crosse he noted out of the Apostle to the Hebrues three properties of the true propitiatorie Sacrifice which tooke away the sinne of the worlde It was a Bodily a Bloudy and a Deadly Sacrifice for so you speake This is one of your reasons yea almost the greatest to proove the Quaestion against vs because Christes Bodily Sufferings bloudshed were the true propitiatioÌ„ of our sinnes But what a reason is this How diffreth it froÌ„ our Assertion That the true Sacrifice for sinne must be indeed bodily bloudy dead we doubt not we vnfaynedly heartily doe imbrace it The Patriarkes beleeved it the Iewes sacrifices of beastes figured it the new Testament confirmeth it But how will it follow then Ergo Christes Bodily death onely meerlie was the wholl ransom and price of sinne For we must note that this is the very Question in deed this is the point of our Controversy as * Pag. 8. I have shewed if you will deale plainly If you speake not to this point your words are Ambiguous and deceitfull and that notable fault is in your selfe most true which “ Pag. 2.301 you wrongully charge me with you dally with generall and doubtful termes which according as they are expounded may eyther make with you or against you And most rightly of your wholl booke being indeed a huge volume for so litle matter I may say that which you obiect most vnaptly against my smal pamphlet * Pa. 24â— Three lines directly to the purpose had ben more worth theÌ„ so many leves thus wastfully spent Wherefore if you meane these wordes directly to the purpose in deed and doe intend to conclude that which we plainly deny and as now at this time we will vnderstand your meaning to bee that the meere Bodily Sufferings of Christ without any proper sufferings of his Soule are the intier and whole ransom for sinne then I affirme expresly there is no piece of reason nor likenes of any argument in thâ—se wordes This will not follow by any meanes from your †Heere 〈◊〉 the Hebâ—â— Your meâ—â— is and mâ—â—â— in this Qâ—â—â— That Châ—â—â—â— meere boâ—â— bloud â—â—â—ferings aâ—â— whole 〈◊〉 texte Againe if the Sacrifice as it is onely Bodily Bloudy and Deadly doth wholly purge sinne then although Christs Bodily death and bloudshed wanted not the sympathy of the Soule yet it followeth that no action or passion of his Soule neither this by sympathy nor any other I say none at all as being in the Soule was regarded as propiciatory and meritorious Which if you once affirme plainly then we will seeke no further for your drift wee may know your meaning well enough Christs Soule shall haue no place no merit no respect at all in the matter of Propitiation Howbeit elswhere I see in you manifest Contrariety heerevnto For sundry times you teach that Christ did suffer peculiarly and severally som * proper punishments which I hope were propitiatory meritorious in his Soule â—â—g 4. 257. â—â—8 2â—3 â—â—8 245. besides his Bodily suffering Yea that this was a part of his Crosse the effect of Gods wrath on his Soule as wel as the suffering in his Body Now how can this be true if our wholl Ransom propitiation be only Bodily bloudy and deadly which is the point that heere * you stand on so pa. 253 But you have reasons you say to coÌ„firm your maine matter â—ag 232. 3. among many these 2 The Jewish Sacrifices and the Sacramentes of Christians The 1st shaddowing and foreshewing the 2. testifying and confirming that the true sacrifice for sinne was Bodily and bloudy Still what trifling is this Doth any in the World deny it that the true Sacrifice for sin was the Body bloud and death of the Redeemer Wherefore the * Proposition must be as I did set it in your behalfe * â—ereof 〈◊〉 speake 〈◊〉 233. â—â—at 1.10 â—31 â—â— 8. c. 44. c. The Iewish Sacrifices were shaddowes or Figures and our * Sacramentes were signes of our wholl and absolute redemption by Christ I say of the wholl and intire propitiatory Sacrifice or els you shrinke and leave the Question As for your paines of Hell in such sense as you vnderstand them that is including the locall punishment among the Damned Desperation finall retection and such like so there was never any that thought Christe Suffered Hell paines as before is declared 〈◊〉 6 Where you say that I expound these Figures of our wholl and absolut redemption to bee of all the fruits and causes of our redemption why do you vntruly charge me with that which I have not I haue no such word nor meaning as fruits Indeed I named theÌ„ Figures of * Effects in Christ 〈◊〉 14. I meane Acts don by Christ but I never thought them any where fruits of our redemption but either causes or meanes or other necessary adioints This therefore which indeed is the true Proposition being set as it ought to be I grant not as you also vntruly charge me I do still deny it in such maner as I did before “ Pag. 1 Generally All the Iewes Sacrifices did not * I mean the propoâ—â— of their â—â—ward appâ—â—rance theâ— not expreâ—â— the whole Figure and shaddow our wholl redemption in Christ The inward and invisible things they all did not signifie And yet I grant indeed that they signified what they were apt to teach and signifie namely the outward and Bodily sufferings only This I say many of the Iewes Sacrifices did represent and signifie yea most of them but not All. Therefore the “ Pag. 23 Assumption also I may well deny as * Treat 1 pag. 12. I did before affirming that certaine Jewish Sacrifices set foorth the sufferings even of the Soule of Christ and not of his Body onely As 1. that “ Lev. 1â— Sacrifice consisting of 2.
common sense of Gods wrath so in my wholl Treatise I take it for Gods perfit Holynes Iustice Power i Ioh. 3â— Psal 2â— 2. Cor 9. properly executing vengeance punishment whether little or great due to them on whom sinne lyeth But you generally do so cary this phrase as signifying any punishment of sinne whatsoever and namely the Afflictions which the very Godly do suffer which is altogeather an vnproper speach This I observe most specially in one place of your booke above others Where you say l Pag. 1â— All kindes of troubles paines and griefes in our states bodyes and mindes which shorten or sower this present life are degrees of Gods wrath and chasticements of out transgression corruption Which presently you prove by many needeles Scriptures And from this sense of his Fathers wrath you do not exempt the Lord Christ. You meane that this he suffered indeed and that this is all in your opinion It is true All troubles paines griefes in their first Ordinance a were the effects of Gods proper wrath â—â—ou doe 〈◊〉 rightâ—â—â— 275. But in their state and condition now they are b not namely as the Godly do suffer them Which we must heere note and consider well â—â—at 1.14 â— 132 You say right also This †because it seemeth grievous for the present and not ioyous is called somtymes in the Scriptures the rodde and wrath of God True it seemeth But indeed it is not so or it ought not so to be For c it seemeth otherwise to the iudgment of faith and knowledg 〈◊〉 1.2 â— 2.28 〈◊〉 2 Cor. â—0 â—efore pa. â—â— 19. Then Gods wrath in this sense is very vnproperly taken as I have often said Wherfore speaking properly exactly as in this CoÌ„troversy we ought according to the revealed minde of the Holy Ghost it is Chasticement correction it is not in any wise Wrath or punishment properly meant Neyther may it be said properly that his Iustice leadeth him to inflict it on vs as e you affirme but it is his Holynes and Love towards his children which chasteneth them 〈◊〉 132. According to the Scripture which saith 〈◊〉 12.10 f God chasteneth vs for our profit that we might be partakers of his Holynes And g whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth 〈◊〉 6.7 〈◊〉 11.32 he scourgeth every Soune that he receaveth If we indure chastening God offereth himselfe vnto vs as vnto sonnes for what sonne is it whom the Father chasteneth not Therefore to speake properly not Gods Iustice but his Holynes and Fatherly Love doth move him to lay whatsoever Crosses and troubles vpon his children He is not vnto them a Iudge or Revenger but a Father Neyther is it Wrath that cometh from him or Vengeance for sinne properly â—â—r 11. but h amendment in Love towards the godly Now the case with Christ was cleane otherwise He needed no Amendement but that which he suffered was right Punishment He was neyther in case as the wicked nor yet simply as the godly He differed from them both and yet in som pointes did partake of both their conditions He was like the godly in that he was highly beloved of God and had no maner of sinne of his own laid to his charge He was like the wicked and differed from the case of the godly greatly because he was laden charged with sinnes yea with all maner of sinnes sustayned their due punishment there being also none other at all to indure the vengeance of God for them but himselfe As we haue largely shewed before in opening the state of our Question Thus then whatsoever Christ suffered and specially at his death was very wrath and vengeance from God properly taken true punishment and iustice executed against sinne for sinne to the which he was in som sort condemned and appointed also this was the true Curse of the Law which thus he sustayned for vs. Nevertheles in all this his Case was extraordinary his condition in the like punishments vtterly vnlike to the wicked For his owne nature was still for all this most holy faithfull stedfast loving the Lord and beloved of him albeit in his office of Redeeming vs and suretyship for vs he did sustaine truly and not vnproperly as the Godly do the Lordes very wrath against sinne which he tooke vpon him Heere is now the Power of God to be deepely considered togeather with his vnspeakeable Iustice and Love and Holines Even one of the greatest mysteries of Christian Religion which to vnfolde what toung is able yea what heart can conceave it And yet most necessary most comfortable to be vnderstood of all men Namely how the Lord hath assigned to his sonne in the worke of RedemptioÌ„ 2. personnes as it were or countenances or coÌ„ditions His owne naturally which God ever deerely loved our countenance or person or coÌ„dition which he sustayned by his office which condition the Lord truly a As yoâ—â— Gods Câ—â— pag. 26â— in deeds in wordâ— accursed and punished Only the sense of the paine of Gods Vengeance came indeede vnto his most holy nature the Curse the Hatred the wrath and iudgment of God being quenched therewith His owne nature felt the sorrow and paine of the Curse and Hatred But the Hatred Curse was bent against the load of our sinne wherein he stood forth as guilty before God and appeared as it were clothed therewith This was Love and mercy to vs this was Iustice vpon Christ having vndertaken for vs this was infinit power and wisdom both wayes in God to bring it to passe which no creature can comprehend his Holynes and Love still chastening his Redeemed ones but laying no part of true Punishment or proper Vengeance for sinne vpon them which Christ only did for them wholly sustayne Thus also seeing Christ indeed had no sinne in him as the godly have to be corrected neyther could be correctted chasticed for nothing therefore properly he was not chastised nor corrected at all but his Afflictions every one both small and great were true and proper punishments and the effects of Gods very wrath for our sinne lying vpoÌ„ him 〈◊〉 245. Som where a you say Christ might suffer the wrath of God in his body yea in his soule he might suffer it and yet not the paines of the Damned or of Hell We grant you say true Christ suffered not the paines of the damned nor of Hell vnderstanding this for the very same condition state alltogeather b as the Damned are in 〈◊〉 you deâ—â—â—e it pag. â—0 49.50 We abhorre such blasphemy as much as you that Christ so suffered Hell paines Yea albeit I know you are far from thinking so yet I say your words do com neerer vnto it then ours do â—â—g 15.16 as is c before noted But I aske do you graunt that Christ suffered Gods wrath in Spirit as the Apostle d somwhere distinguisheth the Spirit Soul If
sunder â—â—g 268. Austin on whom d you triumph is stretched beyond his meaning He dealeth against a Manichee who denyed that Christ had true Humane flesh 〈◊〉 likewise â—â—l the rest â—â—ur Fathers â—â—ken for â—ost part 〈◊〉 sayings â—â—ther aâ—â— the Maâ—â—es or the â—â—s c. 〈◊〉 strove â—bout our â—â—â—ion which yet notwithstanding is manefest because Christ truly dyed Now he proveth that Christ truly dyed because the Apostle saith He was made a Curse for vs in that he hanged on the tree And where it is said Cursed is every one that hangeth on the tree this was saith he to shew that Christ was not exempted but was like other men truly accursed and truly dead So that his meaning is not to shew that Christes whole Curse and his bodily death were iust all one without any differeÌ„ce which you vrge him for nay he hath no such meaning Only he proveth by this that he being made truly a Curse did also truly Dy which the Manichee denyed For in saying Christ was dead accursed for vs is the same he meaneth it is the same for his purpose the one very well proveth the other but not that they were simply all one The rest of e your Fathers are alltogeather idly cited 〈◊〉 95. no man denyeth that which they say Where f you mislike me for saying 〈◊〉 26â— â—â—â—at 1. 〈◊〉 38. g The Curse laid vpon Christ was not onely the ignominie of his death the shame of the world you have nothing against it but much for it Austin whom you boast of is against you in this saying a Pag. â—â— Christ heere tooke on him our punishment without sinne But our punishment which is without sinne doubtles was a great deale more then only the dishonour and shame of the world Austin therefore is manifestly against you in this yea also b Pag. 2 your owne selfe is in saying likewise Austin and Chrysostome and c Pag. 9 other doe say that Christ suffered this ignominie but that this was all or the whole Curse which hee suffered I see none that affirmeth Your many Scriptures in d Pag. 2 this place what doe they Forsooth they prove that it is light at Mid-day For who ever made quaestion but that shame and reproch in their simple Nature were a parte of the true Curse of God Yet all this sheweth not that Shame was the whole Curse which Christ indured e Pag. 2â— You mislike that f Treat pag. 45. I said Christes dying simply g That is Christ haâ—ed simply which in 〈◊〉 he did noâ— as the godly dy may in no sort be called a Curse or Accursed Because as I affirme also h Pag. 44. Death to the godly is no Curse properly nor punishment of sinne but a benefit and advantage Nay therefore Christes Death was properly a Curse because his Death was i As befoâ—â— Pag. 11. 49 59 5 not like theirs You say I am too young a Doctor to controll St Austin herein And I say you are a Doctor not old enough to prove Austin k Your self teth him 〈◊〉 me herein 49. Corp mors bâ—â— bona mâ—â— mala contrary to me in this point Death in it owne nature and in the originall propertie of it is a part of the Curse and so Christ suffered it but in the Godly it is not properly a Curse nor the proper punishment or revenge of sinne which Christ once alone hath wholely sustayned and cleane freed vs of for ever This l Pag. 90. your selfe as well as m Pag. 43 I can tell saying The vengeance of the Lawe once executed on our Surety can no more in Gods iustice be executed on vs. And this our n Nowell techis Hâ—â— suffered â—â—der c. publike doctrine in England set forth by Masster Nowell confirmeth By Christes death it is come to passe that to the faith full Death is now not a Destruction but as it were a removing and changing of life and a very short and sure passage to heaven Who also in o His she Catechisâ—â— An. 157 another place expresseth it thus Death of the body which without Christ was the gate to Hell is nowe by Christ made to all that beleeve in him the gate and passage to Heaven So that death which before was a Punishment is now by Christ become a vantage Wherein you are notably contradicted who doe call p Pag. 15â— 216. Death in the godly the gate of Hell a strange and most vntrue translation Againe you are q Pag. 268 269. gainsaide in this place where you reprove me for affirming that Death to the godly and faithfull is a benefitt and advantage Then you say If I will reason what death is in it selfe I must resolve it to be a part of Gods Curse Which is no answer For our quaestion is not what death is in it selfe Who ever denied it to be in it selfe as you say a part of Gods Curse for sinne but my expresse wordes are Death to the godly is no Curse properly but a vantage Pag. 270. Where a you adde If Death were a gaine to the godly as I would have it by what meanes I pray you came it so to be If you know not why did you not marke better the publike Catechisme before rehearsed where all England is taught that it came by meanes of the death and resurrection of Christ You say Jf by the resurrection of Christ conquering Death and changing the nature of it then till Christ was rison Death was a punishment to the faithfull themselves I wonder what meaning there is in this argument As well you may say There were none saved til Christ was risen For salvation also and forgivenes of sinnes to all men came only by the death and resurrection of Iesus Christ So that thus till Christ came in the flesh none of the holy Patriarkes Abraham David and the rest obtayned eternall life And what became of them then But I am perswaded that Abraham David and all the Prophetes dying before Christ was exhibited in the flesh yet by their faith in Gods sure ordinance and promise they had and enioyed Christ truely incarnat slaine and risen againe and this to them was as effectuall then as it is now to vs since the actual performance of these things Whereby even as we by faith so they by the same faith differing onely in the circumstance of time were truely and throughly saved Likewise to the faithfull then by the efficacie of their holy faith Death was properly no punishment but a gaine even as to vs nowe it is Further b you except against me touching innocentes and Martyrs executions Pag. 175. who c I say are most blessed Treat 1. Pag. 38. You reply Their Martyrdomes are shamefull deaths and that is a kinde of Corporall Curse A kinde of Curse Who denyeth that We know all shame affliction to all men is a kinde of Curse
Christ could not bâ—â— tempted by Satans inward suggestion but onely by the care receaving an outward voyce This I suppose also is a singular conceit of your owne without any title of Scripture to proove it by Yea what reason can you give that where the minde conceaveth any temptation there of necessitie must be Concupiscence Originall sinne a Pag. 1 Corruption of the flesh c. In vs men it is so you say I grant in vs it is so But that of necessitie in nature it must be so or that Adam was tempted by voyce of necessitie and not accidentally I see no reason in the world or that Christ might not be sometime inwardly assaulted tempted also without heaving any voyce Nay I suppose you have no reason to affirme as b Pag 1 you doe that Christ in the Wildernes was tempted by Sathan by outward voyce only It seemeth rather to be manifest that his temptation was meerely in cogitation and in the thoughts of his heart so mooved by the * Or els bâ— such outâ— obiects tâ—ther with 〈◊〉 work thaâ—rituall câ—â—tion in Câ—â— As SataÌ„ 〈◊〉 well knoâ— how spirituall suggestion of the Divell First because the text saith that Satan c Mat. â— set him vpon a pinnacle of the temple in Ierusalem and mooved him to cast him selfe downe Which was within the time of his fasting and hee fasted but fourty dayes and fourty nights and so long continually hee was d Marc. in the wildernes Seeing then Christ was in the Wildernes all the while that hee was thus tempted Howe could that bee really and actuallie done This was therefore in a spirituall Cogitation But chieflie when the e Mat. 4. Divell shewed him all the kingdomes of the worlde and the glorie of them and f Luc. 4. that in the twinkling of an eye how could that †Yea sibly it 〈◊〉 be don â—â—â—ally c ficellâ— aâ— you But onles it 〈◊〉 be Ergoâ— possibly be done really actually and externally Wherefore I must needs think that as Satan was a subtil Spirit so he could did sometime spiritually suggest temptations into Christes heart and Christ could in Soule conceave them and yet vtterly without all sin which we at no hand now can doe because we are all naturally apt and inclining to evill as Christ was not Yea the text to the Hebr. seemeth to prove it also Christ was tempted in all things like vs without sinne Then he was tempted both outwardly and also meerely within for so are we and this was meerely by conceaving and considering of Satans wicked spirituall motion in his Spirit which it was possible that he might doe without any yeelding to it though we by reason of our inborne corruptioÌ„ can not possibly doe it Thus then it was possible and most likely it is also that Christ was assaulted and wrastled withall by the Divels spirituall suggestions now when in most bitter Agonic he hanged on the Crosse Howbeit to goe further such grievous and bitter assaultes of the Divel he might receave outwardly also by his senses other wayes though not by Satans own voyce yet by Satans members meanes And so a â—ag 283. you say he was tempted of Satan all the tyme of his abode on earth Then so you denie not but now even on the Crosse Christ might be and was tempted and assaulted by Satan that is by Satans instrumentes moved and inraged by him And this is none other indeed but that which in the entraÌ„ce of †Pag. 77. this question heere I observed which as I have before shewed sufficeth to prove Christes Combating as it were and wrastling with the powers of Hell on the Crosse But b Pag. 284. you obiect against this that Outward temptation by the mouthes and handes of the wicked is no effect of Gods wrath No is Here you are cleane contrary to your self and the truth Elswhere c Pag. 243. â—63 275 you truly acknowdge that all outward crosses and afflictions small or great are in their nature punishments of sin and effects of Gods wrath Now those doubtles are temptations Then sure these outward temptations by the mouths and hands of the wicked such as Christ indured are effects of Gods wrath viz. his revilings his shame his poverty his stripes his woundes and death it selfe c. You say outward temptation is rather a try all of Gods gifts and graces bestowed vpon vs. And is not inward temptation in the Godly so to I pray what oddes is this that you make betweene the inward and outward temptations It is true this is one good vse of both these fortes in the godly in whom Christ hath sanctified all afflictions death it selfe Yet in their very nature they all are none other but partes of Gods Curse for sin very punishments of sinne and true effects of Gods wrath as in Christ they were all Further Satan might spiritually and extraordinarily worke togeather with these his instruments outwardly afflicting his body I say by these bodily occasions thus the rather working an impression of his malice and spirituall fury mixed with subtilty against Christ and Christ likewise extraordinarily might apprehend the same that is the rather by the concurrence and cooperation of those outward occasions with these spirituall incursions And thus might Christ suffer most strange temptations and incomprehensible sorrowes as very punishmentes of sinne from the furious rage of Satan and malice of wicked men whatsoever other vses they might have besides in him Heere now we may seed row vniustly you conclude that Satan could no other way assault Christ as an instrument of Gods wrath but a The veâ—â— wrastlings assaults of â—â—tan may bâ— ritual â—ornâ—â— though 〈◊〉 such as arâ—â— ecuted in locall He only by executing tormentes on his Soule even in such wise as he tormenth damned soules in Hell and that caÌ„ be say you no other way then by Satans very possessing of those soules Which grosse and infernall speculations of yours for truthes you can not make them I vtterly leave to your owne discussing For my parte I have spoken no word of them in all my treatise Notwithstanding this heere I avouch that howsoever the meanes or maner was of Satans and his furious bandes assaulting of Christ on the Crosse it made certainly an impression of most doleful sorrow and torment in his Soule as feeling discerning by that meanes the very stroke of Gods owne hand vpon him and receaving the sting of his wrath and indignation therein which then wrought and was revealed chiefty then vpoÌ„ him for all our sinnes Neither say you any thing whereby you doe or can overthrow this assertion Our authorised doctrine in England agreeth with me saying b Noweâ— Catech. He fought and wrastled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of Hell Finally heere where you skornfully reiect and detest this my sense of the Apostle in this place yet you give no inkling of any
experience of them This same also sundry of the Fathers avouch with vs most fully and even those which your selfe brings for a your selfe Pag. 25. Cyrills wordes before touched are most large Cyrill Theâ—â—ur 10.3 Omnia Christus perpessus est vt nos ab omnibus liberaret Christ throughly suffered all such passions which men doe suffer that he might deliver vs from all Humane â—ature All the passions of †fleshe were stirred in Christ yet without sinne and so that vnles he had dyed we had not bene delivered from death vnles he had feared and sorrowed we had not ben quitt from feare and sorrowe Heere he saith all our passions were stirred in Christes humane nature even so farre as we are cured and so farre as might bee without sinne in him Then I hope by Cyrills iudgement the sense of the true curse and proper wrath of God for sinne was in Christes Soule so faire as it might be painfull and not sinfull seeing Men are subiect to this suffering as the most sharpest among others Lastly by Cyrill here we see that vnles Christ had felt the same suffrings which we feele and are cured of we had not bene delivered of them This also I am sure fitteth not your opinion That one drop of Christes bloud was sufficient for our whole redemption Which was one of your principles in your preaching but in your book you skip it cleane I know not how â—ag 25. 26. Next we may see that c your place of d Ambrosâ— is also fully to the same effect Luc. de â—â—tic dol â—â— A litle after his e former words he saith The ioy of the eternall Godhead being parted away from him Christ was affected with the redioâ—snes of my infirmity â—â—fore pa. 48 He tooke vpon him my sorrow that he might give mee his ioy and he abased himselfe to the sorrow of death in our manner that by the same meanes in him he might bring vs to life He ought therfore to take sorrow that he might overcome sorrow and not exempt himselfe from it that we might learne in Christ to ouercom the sorrow of death approching Wherefore Christ exempted himselfe from nothing in his Passion that we haue experience of as touching Paines and sorrowes And by the same sufferings in him selfe for vs he healeth vs wherevnto we are subiect by reason of sinne So that thus in his agonie hee wrought with a deepe effect that because in his flesh hee killed our sinnes he might also with the sorrow of his Soul extinguish the sorrow of our Soules To this very purpose also a Pag. 47 4â— Naâ—â—anz Fulgent Barnard Tertull. Ierom. many others before rehearsed do affirme most fully Neither is this taking of their sentences any whit to abuse the Fathers which you b Pag. 86. are afraid of You greatly abuse them which take them otherwise namely as if they meant that by the flesh and bloudshed of Christ meerely alone without the merit of his Soules and Mindes proper suffering our whole Ransom were paid As for our comparing the paines of Christs suffering with the paines even of the Reprobats in this life I see not that you nor any man living can finde fault therewith onely set aside their sinfull suffering which alwayes I testifie that Christ was most free from Yea I doubt not but we may compare Christes sufferings in his Agonies touching vehemency of paines even with those of the Damned in hell What the oâ— is betweenâ— Christes Suâ—fering 〈◊〉 Damned Only I conceave betweene Christs and theirs this odds 1 They suffer sinfully 2 Perpetually 3 Locally in Hell All which being excepted otherwise Christ suffered altogither as bitterly as sharpely yea I may say in nature the very same as the Damned doe which therefore may well be called the paines of Hell although yet Hell indeed doeth differ in some great and waighty circumstances as is aforesaid If you say the extreamest paines of punishment caÌ„not be where sinne is not That is true neither in deed can the least paines be where there is no sinne and that no more in the Body then in the Soule though this please not you Marke what I say The extreamest paines of al may as possibly be inflicted where no sinne is as the very least that as well in the Spirit as in the Body But in trueth neither the one nor the other is possible Neither the greatest nor the least paines of Gods proper vengeance for sinne can be inflicted or suffered at all in Soule or in Body but only where sinne is That is to say either imputed or inhaerent Ordinarily the Reprobat are thus punished where sinne is inhaerent Extraordinarily and singularly by Gods owne speciall ordinance Christ was even thus punished yet where sin was but imputed And thus therefore Christes Soule for meere paine might suffer the extreamest spiritual punishments altogeather as well as his body might suffer any at all without inhaerent sinne But you graunt his body suffered truely punishments for sinne Therefore his soule might suffer also even those of the extreamest degree Your “ See beâ—â—â— pag. 14. selfe also granteth that Christ both might and did suffer the extreamest paines that might bee without his owne sinne But it was possible for him to conceave and feele in his a minde farre greater sorrowes and paines for our sinne from Gods wrath â—at ◠〈◊〉 26. then hee could feele meerely in his body outwardly And the greatest was no more sinne then the least though both were properly for sin Therefore by your own grant Christ might and did feele and indure the greatest sorrowes of the minde and soule as well as the lesser in the body being all the very effectes of the wrath of God against sinne â—ag 102. b You bring a reason against this that God spiritually punisheth no man but for his own vncleannes which is a thing meerely vntrue For though no other man was ever punished without his owne vncleannes neither spiritually nor corporally yet Christ our Saviour was who in this case was not in the ordinarie state of men But I pray shewe me this mysterie how it is that God caÌ„not punish Spiritually where there is no inhaerent sinne but can and may Corporally where there is none All the rest of your assertions c heere are altogeather of this sute â—a 101 102 â—03 105. â—66 94. By this one reason I weakened all yours but you could passe that by To this efâ—â—ct Treat 1 â—ag 41 43. answering vnto it not a word Viz d If Christes body hanging on the Crosse and held by Death in the grave was punished by God where yet he found no sinne and which he still intierly loved and was never separated froÌ„ then so hee might did punish properly his Soule also yet never divide his Godhead nor his love from it But thus he did to his body therefore even so hee might doe and did to his
in respect of his infinit paines he might Mar. 14.35 c This hower can not be referred to his Holy and Righteous affections which were at all howers and seasons in him without measure Holy yet now at his death did not so expresly break out shew theÌ„selves Nor as his â—aines did â—â—peare as they did at divers times before Therefore this Hower can not be these his Holy affections his Paines afflictions they d may be and must bee â—oh 12.27 â—â—mpar with 〈◊〉 33. Neither thus standeth it with his piety to wish that his strong and vehement affections of Holynes should passe from him or bee weakened in him For my part I can see no sense nor sap in these assertions Even so likewise in that â—ag 21. where you ascribe to this his c deepe sorrow of zeale for mens sinnes his sweating bloud in his agonie aboue nature after a strange and marvelous maner I dare say you deliver strange mervayles in Divinity The Fift Cause f you say â—ag 21. might be the Cup of Gods wrath tempered made ready for the sinnes of men which you interpret to be g Eternall Malediction Pag. 22. Touching which you say Christ knowing what our sinnes deserved might intentively pray to have that Cup passe froÌ„ him which was prepared for vs. For vs whom meane you The Elect or the Reprobat What malediction The whole absolut Paines thereof only or the Eternity of the continuance thereof also For so the Reprobats do suffer it If you meane the Elect As you afâ—â—me most â—â—angely pa. â—â—2 133. 144 â—93 294. Christ knew that he must not only h see contemplat but feele suffer all the whole Paines of that Punishment which our sinnes deserved and this was prepared for himselfe our Ransom-payer and not for vs. Wherefore the truth is he could not by any meanes pray against that nor decline that onely vnles he were for the time in some astonishment perturbation of his senses which by the infinitnes of that Paine he might well bee in yea he could not but be in his Humane weake nature and yet still remayning vtterly sinlesse as is afore shewed to have happened in Moses and Paul in a far lesse perturbation then this was in Christ Now this is the very point of our Defense affirme this and you affirme with vs all that we hold professe Otherwise if you meane that Christ prayed intentively to have the whole and intire Cup of eternall Malediction and death passe from him which both the Elect deserve and the Reprobats sustaine that as it is passing strange doctrine so it is also simply impossible For he could not intentively pray against that not feare that which hee most perfitly knew concerned him not at all and by no meanes could ever possibly come neere him But indeed all this is nothing els in effect then your 1 Cause His submission to Gods maiesty sitting in iudgment Wherefore you might have lessened your number and so your answer to this might have ben thesame which is made to your formost But heere furthermore you knit in with this a As youâ— kon theâ— geatheâ— 27. 4 other severall causes of Christs Agony 1. His taking of our infirmities in his flesh to cure them 2. His breaking the knot betwixt bodily death and Hell which none but hee was able to do 3. Gods anger which might be executed on his body but was mitigated by him 4. The desire he had to continue the seeling inioying of Gods presense with his body The of these maketh in my minde much for vs. For vnderstanding that Christ tooke all the infirmities and passions wherevnto mens nature is subiect to the ende that hee might cure all and every kinde of them in vs then it followeth that he wanted not the proper immediat sufferings of paines inflicted by Gods own haÌ„d in his Soule For these are our Soules subiect vnto and capeable of yea and tormeÌ„ted with finally we are by this apt and proportionable medicine of Christ throughly cured of theÌ„ And this is the very same matter which our 4 Argument * Pag 8â— 87. before concluded that Christe had experince of thesame infirmities passions generally whatsoever wherof he hath cured vs. And this your owne Authours here doe fully affirme Cyrill Ambrose and others as a Pag. 88 before we have observed It is then most vnreasonable which heere c you doe if you doe as you seeme to vnderstand them of meere Bodily death â—a 25 26 27 of the infirmities meerly of his Flesh Before pag â—1 Wherein then you deny our d Assumption also are againe Contrarie to your selfe and to f your owne Authours Cyrill nameth flesh heere Pag. 10. 〈◊〉 Ieâ—om Pde meaning not Christes Deitie but his whole Humane nature as the Scripture doeth in a multitude of places and so not his Body onely Thus then it is that he saith as you obserue Pag. 25. that g Christ as a man abhorred and feared death not the bodily death only but as it was conioyned with the sorrowes of the 2. death He would not he could not so feare and be afrighted yea and pitiously astonished with such sorrowe oppressing him as to sweat droppes of bloud only for feare of his bodily death neyther would he pray at all much lesse so vehemently and so oftenty mes as he did against that which he perfectly knew was Gods will and his own most willing purpose to vndergoe Or els Cyrill meaneth no more but that he naturally misliked shunned eveÌ„ as all flesh doth all bodily paine death This we alwayes yeeld and it maketh nothing against vs. For nevertheles he coÌ„stantly imbraced suffered with ioy whatsoever bodily grief he knew did come vnto him by his owne most free wil and by the holy ordinance of God yea he could would beare it with ioy far beyond all the ioy and constancie of h men in their sufferings Who yet â—rink not at 〈◊〉 neither for â—â—dily paines â—â—r for Reliâ—â—ous fear of â—â—ll Only he might faile of the outward appearance and vse of this coÌ„stancie and ioyfull patience as now he did without taint of sinne if his Humane nature were overwhelmed with other infinit paynes and his minde and senses disturbed with more horrour then naturally it could beare Therfore I conclude he thus feared not his meere bodily death but it was the Paines of the 2. death which he felt and so feared But you say i The sorrow and feare of death which it pleased our Saviour to feele in our nature â—ag 26. came not for want of strength but of purpose to quench and abolish those affections in vs. I say it came from both as your selfe also doe avouch cleane contrarily in an other place k To dy even in Christ was infirmitie â—ag 161. though voluntary And generally in another place â—ag 289. l Naturall infirmitie was coÌ„mon
to Christ with all the godly in like cases Wherfore Austins sentence will not helpe you heere Pag. 25. m that Christ was troubled not by infirmitie but by his owne power For he meaneth not only by infirmitie but also by his owne will and power or els you coÌ„fute him yourselfe Neither ther is this any reproch to Christ as n Pag. â— you most iniustly insinuat But as it was glorious to him so to debase his Maiestie for our sakes to take our true and perfit Nature yea to bee humbled therein to the most shamefull death of the Crosse so was it also glorious to him to take all the true weaknesses of our nature togeather and so it was his singular good-will towards vs to become throughly like vs and feelingly subiect to all our Calamities paines and miseries to heale vs of them Only in him the guilt and corruption of sinne it selfe was excepted Faine you would o Pag. 2â— wipe away that ArgumeÌ„t of ours which sticketh neerer to you the you will seeme In Malefactors there is a quiet and contented suffering of most exquisit and extraordinary torments oftentimes The couâ—â— and stâ—â—â— of Maâ—â—ctours â—â—â—ments which they indure only by a naturall strength and courage of minde Howe much more likely is it then that Christ the very rock of all strength and fountaine of patience would not thus seeme affrighted and astonished and so wofully behaving him selfe for his meere bodily death and that before it came vnto him All your answer is that this is no fit comparison for the Sonne of God for they are desperate not having any feare or care of God till they feele the force of his wrath in Hell fyre What an answer is this They have no feare nor care of God What then Yet naturally they have feare and care of most bitter paines and namely then when they feele them If you say before they feele them they are so desperate and so hardened by Satan that they care not for any tormentes that in deed is commonly true But what will you or can you alleage to hinder their full and most dreadfull sense of them when they are in them Satan wisheth them not so much good as to benumme them now in their senses so that the cruell paines of death should not trouble them in the time of their death which hee would rather make more fearfull and intollerable vnto them Let them be then in their life time as desperat as they will yet in death and in the middest of most horrible tortures which oftentimes very quietly they indure surely they cannot choose but feele as liuely and as perfitely as other men doe Only it is a naturall boldnes and strength of minde in it selfe no discommendable propertie that sustayneth them in such extreme paines One instance for all may serve in this kinde even that wretched Murderer of the Prince of Orange in Netherland What strange quietnes did he shew in suffering most wonderfull and rare tormentes vntill death Nowe to make our Saviour Christ lesse able or willing to suffer quietly outward tormentes no greater then that wretch and many other such have suffered I suppose is a bad indeavour And it is no vnfit matter for you to thinke more vpon before you skip it over with silence We compare not the Sonne of God with them but are sure that his Humane nature had beyond all comparison more commendable courage boldnes strength of minde patience and contentment even in the middest of his extreamest paines were they but meere bodily then such caytifs had or possibly could seeme to have This that I say pertaineth alike to the Theeves that were Crucified with Christ Of whom the H. Ghost saith a They were togeather in one and the same Condemnation with Christ 〈◊〉 23.40 That is they suffered from men all one and the like tormentes of death adiudged them by the Magistrate except happily Christ suffered lesse then they because they indured them longer then hee did Yet we finde in none of them any such piteous and strange Complaintes and Cryes and Teares as we finde in Christ But to leave these and to come to the patience of Martyrs in their sufferings That also is admirable what ioy what peace what triumph they shew yea how they sing in the middest of frying flames in their rosting on gridirons in their fleaing off their skinnes and tearing of their fleshe by piece-meales with a thousande other of most strange and butcherly torments no lesse if no greater in outward shewe then the sufferings of our Saviour Christ To this you answer If death be not fearfull to the Servants of Christ they are the more bound to their Lord and Maister Who knoweth not that But what answer is this to our argument And you will also give a reason of your saying Because he was the first that by death disarmed death and severed Death and Hell He was surely both the first and the last both α and ω. For he â—â—ly and none with him nor before nor since him conquered Death and Hell Yet what is this to our Reason The effect that Christ wrought is not our quaestion â—he matter 〈◊〉 or Obâ—â—â— and the â—â—iect of his â—â—ffering are 〈◊〉 question but the maner and kinde of suffering whereby hee wrought it You tell vs of the effect which he perfourmed which we gladly acknowledge viz. that Christ did this in deed by his death he made our death since to be no Cursed death but a blessed death But how did he this by suffering nothing but his meere bodily death only or also a Religious feare of Hell All which other godly men doe also suffer and feele which they take passing ioyfully and quietly But thus Christ did not seeme to doe neyther indeed did he in his Agonie Or did Christ suffer some greater sorrow You say The death which Christ suffered when it approched came fast clasped with Hell What meane you by that meane you that Death and Hell both alike came iointly vpon Christ and that both iointly were ordayned of God to seaze vpon him Then it is thesame that wee affirme Otherwise how came they clasped togeather against him By breaking the knot betwixt Death and Hell he could not be so wofully affected and afflicted above measure as he was if he did not suffer by them somewhat extraordinarily Vnto this you have nothing to answer Only you say he severed them and none ells but only the Sonne of God could dissolve them Which we deny not Neither can we see how Death by Gods ordinance might seaze vpon Christ and not the paines of Hel seeing neither of them is in themselves sin but both alike are the due vengeance of sinne which he was ordayned to suffer so far as was possible Why then did he suffer the one and not touch the other Neither yet do you shew that which you take in hand heere how bodily death is contemptible to the Godly which
was not contemptible to God himselfe by your assertioÌ„ It was not therefore that onely but some other death farre more dreadful and intollerable which made Christ man being also God in such wise to tremble and quake In deed Christ had farre greater cause as you say to feare even his bodily death then any of his Members have For it was therefore because death approched vnto him clasped fast with Hell so that he could not by the ordinance of God meddle with one but he must feele the other And thus he did not contemplate and looke on them a farre of nor had to doe with one more then the other but by suffering one he felt both and by induring one he indured both And thus in deed Christ was left by God to the full naturall sense of his bodily torments But the Godly and the Martyrs deale only with bodily Death the paines of Hell or of Gods wrath they feare not because they know by Christes suffering the same they are abolished removed farre from them Sin staÌ„deth not threatning theÌ„ in the prefence of God as it stood now at this time against Christ our Suertie and Ransom-payer Nay they deale not with Bodily death wholely and naturally for they have Gods comfort with them to mitigate it which Christ nowe felt not Yea they mind not their paines very much for their great hope and ioy presenly following but this was all overclowded in Christ at this instant Therefore he had exceeding great cause to be affrighted and terrifyed to cry out with bitter teares though the godly have cause to triumph sing in Death Thus also you forget * my argumeÌ„t 〈◊〉 1.51 that Christ alwayes charged his Disciples not to take their bodily Death heavily for righteousnes sake Ergo He him selfe would never be so dismayed with the feare of it Heere you have a notable sayinge in the margen whiche must not be forgotten we must preferre Christes suffering before all Martyrs * not for his paines 〈◊〉 26. but for his patience Not for his paines but for his patience A rare distinction If you could make vs believe that the greatest patience is tryed and discerned where the smallest paines are then you said somewhat I know Christes patience was perfit in all his paines both small great and so is not the patience of his servants in their paines neither small nor great But what is this to our purpose We speake not of his inward habit of patience which our faith beleeveth to be in him but of the outward triall and discerning thereof by naturall meanes signes wherevnto it pleased him now to submit his patience after the verie course and operation of Nature Wherefore as Christ had in him indeed farre more patience then we have so it is out of doubt when he came to the chiefest trial thereof in his Passion he would not in any wise as he did shewe lesse in vse then many men doe vnles the trial encouÌ„tring thereof in him were infinitly greater By this also we may see how vaine your next coniecture is that he feared in his Agonie Corporall castigation above his strength 〈◊〉 22.24 For why may not Martyrs and others feare as much cruelty extraordinarie torments at the handes of men as Christ had cause to doe Againe why should the feare of any whatsoever meere bodily paines so overcome his patience as outwardly it seemed at this time Why should he not be able to beare it quietly And principally seeing he knew well enough before what his death should be and that God had vnchangeably appointed it for him Wherefore in no wise ought he so to shunne and shrinke from his meere bodily paines if they were no greater which hee suffered If a Pag. 2 you meane that he felt greater concurring in and with his bodily punishment inflicted by the wrathfull hand of God b Pag. 2 armed with infinit vengeance then you say well and we acknowledge it Your other c Pag. 2. 27. Cause is for that by death his body should want a while the feeling of Gods presence But did not Christ perfitly know that this was Gods decree and certaine appointment yea his owne most free will purpose And shall we imagine that Christ would expreslie pray against that knowen will of his Father yea against his owne Call you this d Pag. 2â— greater perfection in him then was in other men Againe could this thing in any reason be such a horrible griefe vnto him to have his flesh ly dead without paine for a day and a few howers yet his Soule coÌ„tinually living and inioying the coÌ„fort of God and that for such an occasion as to procure thereby the Salvation of mankinde would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for grief and to need an Angell from heaven to comfort him and to pray 3. times vehemently that this Cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinke so Which Cause also if it were true is flatly contrary to your e Pag. 29â— owne resolution But of all these I wonder where you have found anie inkling that any of these may be beleeved to bee the true and effectuall cause of Christes most dreadfull Agonie You say excellent f As be 〈◊〉 have nâ—â— pag. 28. well but by your practise in all matters so farre as I see you never meane to observe it g Epist paâ— in Gods cause let Gods booke teach vs what to beleeve and what to professe h Pag. 91 I love to followe and not to lead the holy Ghost In matters of so great depth I dare not wade without or before my guide Againe i Pag. 41. what I reade in Gods worde that I beleeve what J read not that I doe not beleeve Shewe mee then where you read in Gods word any or all these to be effectuall Causes of this strange Agonie or some sure grounde whence evidently we may gather so much or els for my part I shall never bever beleeve you Your Sixt and k Pag. 27. c. last maine Cause is that Christ by this his bloudy sweat and vehement prayers did nothing but voluntarily performe that true bloudy Offering and Priesthood prefigured in the Law This we simply grant it hindreth not our Assertion Except you meane voluntarily in such sense that hee was not also vrged therevnto by any violence of paines or feare procuring it in him naturally Wherein you seeme to labour by bringing some Fathers and misapplying some Scriptures â—ag 29. and doe say that a you are content to admit also this exposition and of this with all the rest you pronouÌ„ce that b they are sound and well agreeing with Christian pietie â—ag 37. Yet is it contrary to c your resolution also yea it is contrary to the Scripture â—ag 290. expressing his d feare and vehement sorrowes and e discomfort to have caused his Agonie â—â—â—h 14. 〈◊〉 â—4
â—â—bâ— 5.7 Againe if you meane that all this was voluntary in him and not felt indeede according to the outwarde semblance and as men beholding him would iudgâ— Luc. 22.43 then belike you make him to have counterfayted Which thought God for bid should ever come into any Christians heart For no cause you say f I iest and iybe with the Apostles wordes Pag. 302. but I feare this is to iest and iybe in deed with the most dreadfull and bitter sorrowes of our Saviour in working for vs our Salvation And heere why say you not aswell that his Death and bloudshed on the Crosse shewed in him no paines nor infirmitie but only that voluntarily he made him selfe there the true Priest and pe formed the prefigured bloudy and deadly Sacrifice for the sins of the world As good reason altogeather you have to say so as to affirme it of his Agonie â—ag 29. As for the Scriptures which g you cite they prove in deed that Christ nowe executed his office of Priesthoode but will you divide exempt his Death on the Crosse froÌ„ his Priesthood Or his â—ines and fit mity froÌ„ ther The sanctifying of him self doeth it not as well intend and comprehende that Sacrifice on the Crosse as that of his Prayers in the Garden To thinke otherwife is without all shewe of trueth or reason yet I see not why you should cite these textes vnles you meant so neither can I see what els you meane where you conclude saying Christs Agonie being alleaged by the Apostle to demonstrat Christs Priesthood must not rise froÌ„ the terror of his own death â—ag 27. And yet h a little before you openly doe confesse and grant that his Agonie did rise from the feare of his death and that Christ had farre greater cause then any of his members to feare it Also it is contrary to your citing of Cyrill pag. 25. And heere why should i Hilary deny that Christes bloudy sweat came of infirmitie â—ag 28. Or k Austin that his feare and perturbatioÌ„ was of infirmitie â—ag 25. Surely there is no cause For though it be against the coÌ„mon course of our Nature for any paines or feare to sweat bloud yet the Divine power with and through paines and feares might wring out of his body that trickling bloudy sweat As it is plaine that it did by the wordes next before in the text a Luk. 2 44. An Angell came to give him some comfort that is least hee should have bene overwhelmed quite in his sorrow and discomfort but still he was in his Agonie and swet like droppes of bloud trickling to the ground and presently saieth My Soule is full of sorrowes even to death and thrice he prayed that this Cup and this Hower might passe from him It cannot be therefore but that by Sorrowes and Paines this sweat came though also Gods power caused it by laying vpon his Soule and body invisible supernaturall vnspeakeable sorrowes and horrors and by making his fleshe visibly to expresse in some sort this spirituall and extraordinary torment of paine and feare which he suffered And in deed where they say 1 Not Infirâ—â—ty but Poâ—â—â— did this Nec infirmitas quod potestas gessit that proveth the cleane coÌ„trary For Jdeo infirmitas quia potestas gessit 2 Therforâ— there waâ— firmity â—â—cause thâ—â—â— was Powâ—â— For the working of his Power in him argueth the suffering of his Infirmitie The power of God is peâ—fited in infirmÃtie And because it was aboue the course of nature therefore nature was herein oppressed not exempted from paines Thus these speak fully for vs and against you that heere appeared not Christes infirmity only in suffering but his Divine power also in punishing And this I iudge in deed to bee their very meaning But those other mysticall and figuratiue sayings of Austin Pag 28. â— Bede Bernard howe shall we admit them without better warrant That Christes bloudshead was to signifie that Martyrs should shead their bloud what reason have we so to thinke Or that his bloud head should signifie the purging of his Disciples hearts froÌ„ sinne yea or of all his Church in the whole world It did not signifie this but it did it in deed Lastly if it had thâ—se significations in it yet withall his Agonie might rise from his very Paines Feare comming from the present sense of Gods iustice and wrath nowe revealâ—d and working vpon him Hitherto we have made it manifest that in trueth you have nothing in all these wordes against our doctrine that Paines and sorrowes were the true and proper cause of Christes dreadfull Agonie nor to prove that his meere bodily paines or death was the whole Cause Now we are to shew the like in his most we full Complaint on the Crosse where he saith My God my God Math 27. why hast thou forsaken me You will aske me heere what kinde of Forsaking may this be I shewed you plainly * Treat 1 â— 6â— 65 6â— before if you had regardâ—d it Namely that Christ being also now yea specially in the feeling of infinit Paines inflicted on him sundry wayes â—â—w Christ on 〈◊〉 Crosse was â—â—â—saken of â—â—â—d See also â—â—â—g 112.113 and that directly froÌ„ Gods proper Wrath for our sinnes he felt his whole Humane nature for the time left all comfortles and alone without any ioyous assistance of his Deitie I say not that he wanted now all assistanc of his Deitie for it surely would then have quite overwhelmed him with this intollerable burdeÌ„ But his Godhead as it were withdrawing and hiding it selfe from him for that season of his Passion gave him no sense nor feeling of ease comfort or ioy but all the sense of sorrowes and paines as well in spirit as in soule and body that might bee all the sense of his ioy and comfort for the while being cleane gone and wholy swallowed vp in that huge bottomles gulfe of sorrowes and paynes issuing vpon him out from the fierce Wrath of God Howbeit yet even nowe he wanted not sufficient assistance of the Deitie to sustayne him in life heerein as I said Phil. 2.7 Rom. 8.32 â—eut 10 17. â—â—c 16.17 This was that extreeme humiliation and exinanition of nature wherein †God spared not his Sonne and wherein also Christ spared not him selfe For hee vndertooke all this most willingly and yet being in it naturally grieved and sorrowed for it at some moments being astonished with it suddenly and naturally desired ease and release from it This forsaking or dereliction beseemeth the time place person and case of Christ our Ransom-payer and Purchaser of salvation with the price of his owne most direfull paines Pag. 24. c â—â—â—r 6. Expoâ—â—â—ions of â—hristes CoÌ„â—â—aint are all â—â—â—isse Not any other farre fet or hardly applyed or strangely devised by the braynes of men As in trueth all those other senses heereof are which you rather imbrace
him selfe Where you obiect Athanasius Cont. Aâ— Serm. that He could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwayes in his Father It is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christes Deitie could not be forsaken of his Father seeing it is alwayes in his Father and so was not inferior to the Father which was Arius haeresy Touching his humanity he denyeth not but God might forsake it For the Scripture saith so And in deed he forsooke it by causing in it the feeling of all Paines for sinne and by leaving it therin for a while all comfortles Your 5. Exposition is Leos conceit without warrant far fetcht hardly applyed thaâ— heere Christ putteth vs in minde why God doth often not heare our prayers but provideth better for vs then if our wils were satisfied that this is a mysticall sense â—â—g 37. a Origen also is heere as weake that Christ meaneth nothing ells but that hee was abased lower then his divine maiesty Also these senses be contrary to all the rest heere observed Your 6. and last also is likewise as contrary to the rest and as improbable in it self or more then the former That Christ heere should cite the beginning of that b Psalme â—â—al 22. only to shew the Iewes that their wrongs towardes him were Prophesied of before This c Treat 1. â—â—g 66. already I fully answered which you refute not Likewise where you say â—â—g 65. 66. He sung the whole Psalme it is d answered Wheâ—in moreover this is to be noted that surely hee now vttered no more of this Psalme but the 1. verse Eli Eli Lamma sabachtham For heereby the standers by imagined that he called for Elias Therefore he sung not the Psalme Your authorities are bare arguments Ierom bringeth no reason but his own word Chrysostom I see not what he saith to your purpose at all Finally those kindes of Dereliction which you mention c besides â—â—g 32. 33. c are nothing fitter then the former Thus far I have waded in examing your sundry and variable expositions of one poore little plaine sentence of Scripture At least 6. or 7. divers yea contrary senses you have brought of a few wordes 〈◊〉 14. of them all you say They are f all godly expositions and †All these interpretations are sound â—â—g 37. and stand well with the rules of Christian pietie How sound and fit they are it hath ben seene But verily you have a good head if you can reconcile all these and make them stand togeather and a very bad opinion of the holy Scriptures you seeme to have if you thinke they may be handled by interpretations and expositions thus that a man may take them in 6. or 7. divers senses and all iustifiable Your saying therefore â—â—g 113. that g you have spoken before asmuch to this matter as may content any man that is not fastened to his fancies more then to to the truth I omit as vaine and frivolous Now it resteth that I gather some reasons from the expresse Scripture â—â—s for vs to shew you that indeed very paines and the vehemency of sorrowes namely which hee now sustayned by way of yeelding Satisfaction and Sacrifice for sinne were the principall and onely proper Cause of his most dreadfull Agonies Complaint Which truly though it neede no reason for proofe of it the matter being so cleere in it selfe yet your vnreasonablenes is such that it draweth somewhat from me about it First No Christian doubteth I suppose much lesse denyeth that Christs most wofull Agonies Complaining belonged properly and directly to his Passion and Sacrifice and that they expressed a parte thereof yea as I thinke not the least parte But his whole Sacrifice consisted in Afflictions The Prince of our Salvation was consecrated through Afflictions Therefore Afflictions Sorrowes and Paines were the Cause of his Agonies and Complaint not his religious feare not his Piety or Pity If you say These were Afflictions vnto him I answer they properly belonged to his Holynes as partes thereof and were not a Before pâ—â— See alâ—o 〈◊〉 91 9â— immediatly directly nor properly in him as the Wages Price of sinne as his whole Passion was and every part thereof Againe that these should or could afflict Christe so much above his strength and patience it is more then strange Yea also it were no vertuâ— but sinne in any to give way to our Affections though about good thinges immoderatly beyond our patience strength of nature Lastly though they somwhat molest the minde yet in truth they are most pleasing and delightfull to good men not tedious much lesse painfull vnto death Therefore you do very ill to make these partes of Christs Holines to be proper partes of his satisfaction and the maine Causes of his Agonie and Complaint And worse you doe if you ascribe them b Pag. 27â— 115. not to any Paines in him at all Secondly The summe of these c Pag 90. forenoted Texts must be considered namely that Christe expresly wished sundry times in his dreadfull astonishment suddainly even against Gods knowen will in one respect though allwayes after his knowen will in another respect as afterward wee shall see And heere are expressed with his strange Astonishment his mighty Sorrowes and Feare of them partly felt and partly further to come You d Pag. 9 â— skip this Feare when you reckon but 4. kindes For this was neither a religious care nor doubtfull feare nor desperat nor damned feare but a right Naturall feare in Christ Which was as I said for the infinitnes of his sorrowes partly now revealed and partly further to bee laid vpon him afterward Whence also his sweating drops of bloud trickling downe from him and his intolerable Agonie and his comfort receaved by an Angell from heaven that now in this his wofull discomfort ministred vnto him and his complaying on the Crosse that his Father had forsaken him finally all his prayers and supplications with teares and strong cryes against that death which he feared Now all these things we see in Christ came because of his sorrowes and Paines in his Passion not for his zealous Holines and Sanctification â—â—â—l 51.11.2.8 David waÌ„ted somtime the present feeling of Gods comfortable spirit and mourned dolefully for the want of it albeit yet hee were not destitute of his spirit indeed which also himselfe knew well enough And thus did Christ even in his greatest plunge of wo for then he called God his God resolutly Nevertheles he being infinitly more punished then David nature could not but suddainly cast out that affection which yet was meerely naturall in him to wish ease and release of his vnmeasurable and intollerable paines Third Adde heere vnto Christs own expresse words Ioh. 12.27 â—ark 14.35 when in this season he prayeth that a this Hower and This Cup may passe from him That which This Hower and This Cup do signifie the same
is the proper principall cause of his Agonie But what can bee meant by This Hower vnles the Paines of his suffering set and appointed by God for him to beare at this determined time from Gods Iustice for sinne What is this Cup but the bitter tast of the same Paines aforesaid This I hope was not his Holines and sanctification which so troubled and molested him not his Piety nor his Pity Nay finally he himselfe expresseth the true Cause even his excessive Paines his overabounding Sorrowes and anguish saying My Soule is full of paines or full of sorrowes even vnto death Heere hee nameth the Cause For which Cause also even of intolerable and vnsupportable sorrowes and paines it must needes be that he cryed at his end My God my God why hast thou for saken me This then manefestly was the only proper and principall cause of Christes most dreadfull Agonies and perplexity in his Passion even excessive Paines and the intire want of feeling of Gods comfort Pag. 17. and nothing els How hard soever b you make it I c know not why to shew the proper principall cause thereof Treat 1. Pag. 72. And heere wee will remember againe what is taught by Authority in England The rather for that you take on as a man impatient because I doe affirme that our doctrine not yours hath the publike Authorie for it Pag. 334. You d call it an egregiously an insolent and impudent speach well becomming an alehouse c. And yet in the verie next b Pag. â—â— page in plaine termes you graunt the same to bee taught in our Homily of Christes Passion for you say thus the Hom teacheth The Justice of God pursued Christe with most paynefull smart and anguish even vnto death and forced the weaknes of his humane flesh to cry My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Heere I am sure you think not that our Homelie maketh Christs Pietie or Pitie nor yet his meere Bodily paine to force him thus farre Nor in those wordes next following there c Hom â— Pass 2. O that Mankinde should put the everlasting Sonne of God in such paines for the grievousnes of our sinnes And in trueth that the Homily is farre from both these your meanings I have plainly shewed d Pag. 6 before Adde heerevnto the full and large declaration heereof in the authorised Catechisme e Nowe techisâ—â— Christ suffered not only a common death in sight of men but à lso was thoroughly touched with the horror of eternall death he fought and wrastled as it were hand to hand with the whole army of Hell before Gods iudgement seat he put him selfe vnder the heavy and grievous severitie of Gods punishment he was driven to most hard straights hee suffered for vs and went through horrible feares and moct bitter sorrowes of the minde that he might in all things satisfye the iust iudgement of God appease his wrath For to sinners whose person Christ did heere beare not only the sorrowes and tormentes of present death are due but also of death to come and everlasting So when hee did take vpon him and beare both the guiltines and iust paine of Mankinde damned and lost he was affected with so grievous feare trouble and sorrowe of the minde or soule that he cryed out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Finally the Annotation of our great f Bibl. 1591. â— Bible authorized and appointed to be read in our Churches iustifyeth all this saying g Annoâ— Luk. 2â— Christ here felt the horror of Gods wrath and iudgement against sinne I pray who is that Egregious lyar now I hope for my part I have spoken the truth in avouching my doctrine that forenoted Proposition Assumption also by you denyed to be our publike doctrine and fully authorized in England Wherefore you may meane some other to be h Pag. â—â— a giddy Spirit lately buzzing in the peoples eares the coÌ„trary I hope I am clear from it And thus it remayneth that we conclude even our whole Reason to be firme true which is i Pag. 9â— before delivered The paines of Christes Passion which now he felt and feared were the principall and proper cause of those his Agonies But his meere Bodily Paines and death or the feare of them caused no such things and lamentable effectes in Christ much lesse did his Pietie and Pitie Therefore Christ felt and feared Paines more and infinitly greater then meere Bodily paine and death which were the principall and proper Cause of this strange plight in him Which consequently can be none other by necessary reason then the Paines and sense of Gods wrath in his spirite properly Therefore Christ suffered that also and not only in Body as you hold Howbeit you have yet heere and there some exceptions against this our doctrine which are not to be cleane neglected First you say â—ag 290. a I extend Châ—istes Agonie too farre because I will have it proceed from b the intollerable sorrowes and horrors of Gods fyrie wrath equall to Hell Treat 1. â—â—g 80. I shew not there the Cause of Christes Agonie and Feare I shewed it of purpose in the c beginning Why did you not refuse that Treat 1. â—ag 6 7 You ought to have dealt directly against that which I expresly mention to have ben the cause Thus I said His Sorrowes and sufferings for the redemptioÌ„ of sinnes The Cup of Affliction and sorrowe which now he felt and was to feele yet further Caused him to mourne and feare Say then plainly that this Cause is mistaken and too farre extended or els you say nothing to vs but by indirect and pâ—aeposterous collectioÌ„ Now if this Cause which we gave and doe give be true and right as I hope it is before proved more then sufficiently then I doubt not it is as true also by invincible reason that Christ suffered the intollerable sorrowes horrors of Gods fyrie wrath equall to Hell Which I hope also is as fully proved â—â—g 91. 117 being the effect of our d Assumption before Seeing it could not be his meere Bodily paines much lesse his Holy Affections as you hold that brought him to this miraculous miserie and distresse wherein wee see by the Text hee was Therefore they were the intollerable and incomprehensible dolours of his Spirit questionles which wrought the same There is no other sorrow in the world to be found which can be imagined to be the Cause possibly â—ag 290. And then my other wordes also which e heere you cruelly coÌ„demne shall stand well enough * That Christ as touching the vehemency of paine was as sharply touched as the Reprobats themselves â—reat 1. â—â—g 81. yea if it may be more extraordinarily Though you labour with might and maine to make them amount to Haeresie open blasphemie But why do you not bend your odious outcryes and accusations against that Authority before truly cited
either now or before he dyed in the flesh or both now then also For he might well suffer it eveÌ„ now and yet feare it more ensuing Yea such a maner measure of Feare as this manifestly was could not be but a very Suffering of these spirituall sorrowes Which also that sheweth where hee saith My Soule is full of actuall sorrowes even vnto death c. Neither is there in this any a doubt full word Pag. 304. which is your maner of writing Pag. 296. nor b device vnfit for Divinity but your CoÌ„parisons of c fearing Captivitie Pag. 301. loosing a purse c. are very vnfit to be matched with this feare in Christ Pag. 302. You thinke this was but a d iest if God be said to have heard Christ and deliuered him from that he feared and yet to let him suffer it Forsooth no iest for he doubtles suffered it as before we haue seene Nowe nevertheles GOD might well heare him 2. wayes 1. by sufficient sustayning him in it 2. by delivering him out of it in due time In one place you seeme to observe a point both strange and very contrary to your selfe Pa. 118. 119 in saying e Feare is more intollerable in Christ theÌ„ doubting Is feare so intollerable a thing for him when as you haue so often and so earnestly affirmed that he feared Pa. 22. 124. and for f feare became thus astonished Pag. 303. Where * you seeke a weake advantage in that I said eisakoustheis may seeme to shew that Christ was heard being in that which he was saved from you see I challenge no certaine but a seeming reason from that worde But your selfe maketh a stranger coÌ„clusion Ergo the Active referred to God importeth that God being in the same Paines did heare him Lastly you say g Indeed but in the Garden Christ never prayed with strong cryes teares to be saved froÌ„ Death Pag. 22 that we read in the Scriptures I hope neither doe you read expreslie in the Scriptures at all that thus he prayed in the Garden You may soundly gather it from the Scriptures I graunt Ioh. 12.27 and so you may that his praying h before was of the self same nature and maner also after in that most dolefull complaint on the Crosse when he cryed My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Where the very like request is plainlie implyed as he made in the Garden when he saide Let this Cup passe from Ieb 5.7 So that the i Apostle in all reason may bee vnderstoode to have respect to all these tymes and wofull cryes of our Saviour Christ Pag. 30. And thus it is without all reason that you say k his Agonie ended in the Garden Pa. 115. 116 and that on the Crosse hee had l alwayes persistance in ioy without obscuration or intermission Likewise also that otherwise his astonishment must a Pag. â—â— continue 18. howers from his entering into the Garden after supper to the ending of his life the next day at 3. of the clocke after noone Howe vaine is this consequence how false are these sayings and contrary to Scripture in all the circumstances But you say b Pa. 30. the cause coÌ„tinuing the effect could not cease The Cause was Gods leaving his weake nature in these sorrowes at somtimes more at sometimes lesse also he is to be thought to reveale and inflict the very sorrowes not alwayes in one tenor but sometime more sometime lesse finally his Manhood apprehended these arrowes of Gods wrath sometime more suddainly then at other times These were the true causes of his Astonishment but these continued not 18. howers togeather therefore the effect was not to coÌ„tinue still in that maner on him Then you c Pag. 29 say in the vttering of these wordes the Cup did passe from him by my owne confession I coÌ„fesse it not But I confesse his extreame astonishment did even quickly passe from him yet the sense and tast of that Cup might continue longer in such a maner and measure as he was better inabled by his Deitie to sustaine it Now what ill is there in these conceites I pray you What folly is there in them Against vs heerein you doe nothing els almoste in your large Treatise Iniuriouâ— sâ—eacheâ— but heape vp many and most false imputarions That we thinke Christ was in d Pag. â—â—â— 116. 1â—â— doubt and feare of Gods favour e Pag. 1â—â— destitute of faith hope love ioy forsaken of Gods favour grace Spirit that f Pag. â—â—â— he continued 18. howres togeather amazed as it were in a trance that he g Pag. â—â—â— vehemently and often strugled and strived in his prayers against the knowen will of God sought by all meanes to decline the worke for which he came into the world His flesh feared death though his Spirit submitted it self to the will of his heavenly Father h Pag. â—â— We put Christ besides him selfe when it pleaseth vs that he knew not what he prayed nor prayed in faith Your L. if you had reasons but any thing probable wanteth not outward meanes enough to commend your cause you neede not to devise against vs such grosse and base vntruths But it bewrayeth how desperat your matter is which can not come foorth nor make any shew to the world without such proppes to leane on Besides that which heere in severall places wee haue declared to the coÌ„trary in our i Pag. 5â— 70. 71. former Treatise we shewed our minde though briefly yet sufficientlie against these iniurious speaches How you seeme to avouch that Christ was by God forsaken in a Body 〈◊〉 114.116 â—â—2 103 â—â—ore 〈◊〉 but not in b Soule let them declare that can For my part I know not your secret therein I am sure no man can in trueth maintaine it As for c Ambrosâ— 114. â—â—â—e pag. 113. 128. 1â—0 〈◊〉 1. of yeâ—â—â—ion See â—â—â—re pag. you wrest him as you did Hilary c d before After this you are bold and aske if e any dare doubt of your doctrine Yea surely I dare not but doubt of it Also we have seene that the publike f authorised doctrine in England dareth to doubt of it Which maketh Christes putting him selfe betweene Gods Wrath and our sinnes a parte divers from his bodily death on the Crosse â—â—â—ore pag. â— yet the extreamest part of his Passion See also other g authorised testimonies heereof But why may not any dare doubt of your doctrine Pet. 2. Because the Scripture saith h Christ suffered for vs. leaving vs an example that we should followe his steppes c. And this is very true also the godly doe followe his steppes heerein many times as I i shewed you before â—at 1. pa. heere 120.129 Some are conformable in some measure with Christe even in these his sufferings Then k you say we ought to be glad and reioyce thereof I answer we ought to
the Apostle mentioneth the i Ephe. 2.2 Ayre and that k cap. 6.12 on high as being the place of Divels Notwithstanding far be it from me to affirme that hell certainly is not beneath Yet your pretended scripturs are meerely forced to prove it As in the chief I have shewed already In the rest it will appeare likewise anon Howbeit wheresoever Hel indeed is though we do grant in it to be locally in the earth beneath vs yet every Opposition betwene Shammajim the Heavens or Skyes and Sheol doth not signifie the opposition betweene Heaven and Hel. This you shall never be able to prove Shammajim thus placed signifieth the Skyes not the very place of Heavenly glory in the presense of God which in English we call Heaven And Sheol thus placed signifieth not Hell the place of torments but it is taken thus 2. wayes Somtime for †a vast and deepe Gulfe only or pit in the earth Abyssus the bottom wherof we know not Amos. 9.2 Iob. 11.8 Psa 139.8 So doe a many of your places meane which you draw and wrest to signifie Hell Somtime for Ruine and Destruction or Abolishing of any visible Creatures from hence which seemeth to be the largest most proper sense of Sheol â—heols proper sense So doth it in Jsay signifie where Sheol is threatned to the King of Babel b Though thou be lifted vp to the Skyes Isa 14.15 yet shalt thou bee brought downe to Sheol that is in this place to an inglorious Destruction and No being in this word and thy carcase vnto the sides of the pit that is the Grave This the contrariety heere sheweth Thougâ— thou be lifted vp to the Skyes He meaneth not heere into the glory of the Saints of God in Heaven but lifted vp in great pomp and worldly glory as the Latin phrase meaneth also when they say ad sydera tolli Now saith the Prophet to this King of Babell Though at this time it be thus with thee yet surely thou shalt be brought down to the contrary point to an inglorious Destruction and a wiping out from the Earth Which sense of Isay is also very well confirmed by the like matter in Ieremy c Though Babel should mount vp to the Heavens â—er 51.53.4 and though she should defend her strength on high yet from me shall her Destroyers come saith the Lord. A sound of a cry cometh from Babel and of great Destruction from the Chaldeans c. Where that which Isay called Sheol Ieremy speaking of the very same matter nameth Destruction vtter laying wast and overthrowing of that City and State And so to come to our purpose A very Heâ—raisme d this is the very same phrase heere in Mathew touching Capernaum Thou Capernaum which art lift vp to the Heaven shalt be brought down to Hades that is to Destruction to an inglorious Not being any more in the world as before time it had ben â—â—des DestructioÌ„ Razing â—aking away Which also is confirmed by that which he addeth presently of Sodom that if they had had the meanes of repentance as Capernaum had Sodom might have remayned a City to this day Inferring by this that Capernaum for their greater contempt of God and his word deserved more then Sodom to be destroyed to becom no City Hitherto this is the first iudgment threatned to the state of the City Hades Destruction or an vtter razing out from the earth The 2. iudgment heere threatned followeth in the next verse Moveover I say vnto you that it shal be easier for them of the land of Sodom in the day of iudgment then for these Heere indeed is Hell threatned to them of Capernaum yet as touching that before there was nothing els but the overthrow and destruction of their Citie signifyed by that worde Hades applyed to the Citie as is before declared And contrary to this you haue not any piece of reason in al that “ Pa. 147 1â— 409. you say here about The world of Souls which †Pag. 403.409 you play withall Hades may and doeth signifie but yet then only when it is referred to deceased Soules not otherwise Next let vs view the Corinthes a Pag 408. 1. Cor. 1â— 55 O Death where is thy victorie O Hades O Destruction or O Power of Death where is thy sting Heere it is referred to the destruction of the whole and intire Persons of men taken away by death out of this worlde who in the end by this conquest and triumph over Death the power therof at the last day shal be restored to life againe in a true and perfit Resurrection and restitution This is the whole scope and drift of the Apostle heere and you graunt it But you inferre that therfore it is meant of Hel. Of Hell which way Because since by sinne Hell gat possession of both partes of man aswell of his body as of his Soule the full deliverance and conquest ouer Hell is not but in the Resurrection This is very vntrue Our full deliverance from Hell and from Satan is obtayned in this life as it is written b Luke 1.7 We being delivered from our enemies and from the handes of all that hate vs must serve him without feare all the dayes of our life in bolines and righteousnes before him That is we being heere truly iustified by his grace are fully freed and delivered from all the power of our enemies Satan is c Luke 11. 〈◊〉 Rom 8.33 Ioh. 8.51 5 5.24 conquered spoyled bound and cast out from vs. So that your speach is very bad and scandalous where you say d Pag. 216. The bodyes of the Saintes lying in their graves are in the Divells walke For then the Graves where bodyes ly senseles are a part of Hell properly taken At least the Deaths of the Reprobat and of the Children of God e Answerab to your doâ—trine pa. 24 touching the state of their bodyes till the resurrection are all one And men truly iustified are iustified but in their Soules Sinne remayning stil charged on their Bodies and therefore in their bodyes they remaine subiect to the power of Hell and to the curse of the Law and to the claime of Satan till the day of our Resurrection at the last iudgement You call it 〈◊〉 part of the â—ages of sin And thus the godly must pay a part of their own redemption and satisfaction for sinne And then Christ was not our only and absolut Redeemor If this be good doctrine let the godly iudge Your selfe overthroweth this enough Pag. 156. saying f He changed the curse of death and made it now a rest from all labours So that I hope the Bodyes of the dead Saintes are not in the * Divells walke Nor subiecâ—ed to the Râ—â—ge of Saâ—an much lesse are they g in the possession of Hell Pag 216. in the handfast of Hell Further you say vpon the text Pag. 178
h Through death Christ destroyed him that had the power of death that is the Divell Pag. 179. Whereby i it is evident that Hell is spoyled of all right and claime to the members of Christ hee brake c. I hope in this life the godly are the members of Christ then in this life they are fully freed from Hell for euer Wherfore it is very vntrue that Hell properly taken hath any possession of the iust and handfast or power on them or that Hell is not fully subdued for them vntill the Resurrection I graunt that the common death heere is called an enemy Cor. 15.26 but he meaneth not such an Enemy as Hell is especially as this is spoken touchinge the godly Yet it is an Enemie even to them not as any Curse at all but as a Memoriall consequent of the old Curse like as a scarie is where was a deadly wound also as a peaceable and quiet stopp or stay vnto them â—â—ea because 〈◊〉 is painâ—ull â—o the flesh in 〈◊〉 his life that their whole persons cannot yet enioy their appointed felicitie Howbeit for all this toward them it hath not the least affinitie with Hell at all Therfore Hades heere in no sort signifyeth Hell but only Death or the power of Death or the world and kingdom of Death or something to that effect onely Yea the very text seemeth thus to expound it selfe saying Where is thy sting O Hades The sting of Death is sinne Where the later seemeth a very direct answer and exposition of the former words Thus The sting of Death or Hades is sinne noting these 2. wordes Hades and Death as Synonimaes for one thing beeing applyed to men Or if “ Pag. 408. you will haue them to differ He may take Hades for the * As it vtterly â—aketh away 〈◊〉 witholdeth â—rom a visible â—â—ate Power strength of Death which the brain-sick Idolators made a God or the Dominion and Kingdome of Death These respectes Hades might well haue with the Apostle which differ from Thanatos Death the meere separation of the Soule from the Body which yet in effect are all one and haue no difference touching our purpose Like as we saw a Pa. 1â— c. 1 before howe all Authours have vsed them Further The Grave of the Wicked is not to be nâ—med nor reckoned Hell properly nor any part thereof In Hell there wanteth not sense of paine If you say it is an entrance to hell and that which holdeth and reserveth the wicked vnto hell Yet then it is not Hell for even thus the Grave and Hell doe greatly differ Finally Hades is b See 〈◊〉 pag. 1â— adversarie to the Resurrection But Hell would not bee adversarie to the Resurrection Therefore Hades heere is not hell no not to the wicked Death in deed and the Dominion of Death is an adversarie to the Resurrection and at that day it shal be vanquished and vtterly abolished when all flesh shall liue againe As for Hell that shall increase theÌ„ and bee advanced when all the wicked both bodyes and Soules shal be subdued vnder it for ever Therfore Hades heere is not hell but the power of Death as hath bene saide or the Dominion of Death or meerely to that effect Also we are to note that the Apostle heere plainly alludeth to that of Hoseah c Hose O Sheol ò kingdom of death or power of ' Death I wil be thy destruction Not o Hell For the Prophet speaketh this to comfort Israel in their captivitie against their continuall Destructions and razings out from this world shewing that now the Lord would stay his iudgement that way Death which had consumed them should now destroy them no more but they should liue and flourish againe This the Apostle might notably allude vnto speaking of the ResurrectioÌ„ As for Hell if the Prophet had meant it as he doeth not the Apostle could make no allusion to it nor haue any thing to deale wch it in this matter of the ResurrectioÌ„ simply So that where you say what reason is there to exclude out of these words Christs victorie over Hell it is very weake What reason is there to include it where the Apostle speaketh only of our resurrection from bodily Death and of nothing els Next we come to the RevelatioÌ„ First a Rev. I have the Keyes of Hades that is of Destruction or of the * The â—â—ble wâ—â—â— the Dâ—â—â— kingdome of death and of Death Or we may take them as 2. words for one and the same thing that is both of them for Death For heere Christ sheweth only that as He was dead so nowe he hath overcome Death hath power to dy no more as I hauâ— b Treaâ— pa 11â— heeretofore noted What shew of reason haue c Pa 17 you then to bringe in heere Christes power over the Damned Soules in Hell Because there is mention â—lswhere of the Key of hell Therefore the Key of hâ—des heer is the same What color of reasoÌ„ is there in this Again a One sitteth on a pale horse whose name was Death Rev. 6.8 Hades Desâ—â—â—on the world of the Dead or the Kingdom of Death followed aâ—ter â—â—m Thâ—â— in no wise can be Hel because the text addeth Power 〈…〉 them to slay with the sword and with samine and death and with wilde beasts Hell slayeth none in that sorte these are not the weapons of Hell but of the Dominion and Power of Death thâ—se and such other mo â—ag 406. are the proper weapons b You take it to bâ— the power of the Divell because the Divell slayeth somâ—times the bodyes of men Which you proue by the bodily slaying and siniting of Iob and his children This indeed is the thing which we holde This is not the Torments of Hell in the place of Damned these be onely bodily harmes and death So that heereby you confirme our purpose for we denie not but God somtime vseth Satan to punish and to slay the bodies of men But seeing this is nothing but Death not Hell which then is inflicted therefore it is bâ—st to take Hades heere most generally as the nature of it is for the Power of Death or the world of the Dead Hell by no meanes it can be â—â—g 398. You tell me in c one place that my best skill is in varying phrases It is better to vary phrases then to vary opinions as you very often doe I vary phrases to expresse Hades which in Authours is not alwayes the same thing or at least not after the same maner Whose generall largenes which it properly hath can not in one word be expressed in English Wherefore my varying of phâ—ases to this purpose I hope is pardonable sith indeed it is necessarie That coÌ„iecture of mine of the 4th part of the worlde 's not going to Hell at once I never esteemed it worth the standing on I he last place is †Death and Hades