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A28667 A publick tryal of the Quakers in Barmudas [sic] upon the first day of May, 1678 by Samson Bond, late the preacher of the Gospel in Barmudas. Bond, Samson. 1682 (1682) Wing B3585; ESTC R29047 105,090 110

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pretended by th●e falls short of maintaining your cause as it respects the first part of the charge which ●id appear on a due examination of the Text it self in this man 〈◊〉 to wit Exam. By the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus we are to understand the Spirit which the Father gave him as the Son of Man without measure Ioh. 3. ●4 Ioh. 1. 6. Now from this fulness of Spiritual Life in Christ Paul received such a degree of it as made him free from the Law i. e. from the reign and dem●nion of sin and from Death Rom. 6. 12. 14 i. e. from the power of natural death Note that the Spirit in the Text above is se●●own two wayes 1. By the Subject in whom it is that is in the Manhood of Christs Person 2. By the Effect it is a spirit of life if this life be not from Christs fulness conveyed into us we are but dead men spiritually dead in sins Eph 2. 1. But when the spirit of 〈◊〉 from Christs unmeasurable fulness is derived to us t●en we feel its law or power weakening and abolishing the Law i. e. the strength and Authority of sin in us and thereby sin hath now no reigning domineering power in or over us nor can it condemn our persons and thus we are ●reed from the Law of sin death Note Not so ●reed as if we were simply delivered from both or either of these as that we cannot afterwards sin and die but the meaning is sin cannot rul● or exercise a command now over us n●r can it damn ●s nor can the natural death hurt us now tell me William whether there be ought in this third Text of Scripture alledged by thee that doth in the least though never so much strained prove this first part of the charge against you to be false for the mind of the Apostle therein is plain and evident viz. that the law of the Spirit of life inherent in us hath only a virtue to eat down the Law or commanding power of present sins and to destroy the power of our natural death what I pray thee is in all this to prove a Quakers pretended Saviour within him c. surely William either thou art very silly thy self or thou didst think thy hearers to be so After him steps F. E. again and said the Scripture saith of Christ I in thee and thou in me but he could not tell us where to find the Scripture that said those words of Christ Answ That I did not remember any such Scripture for manner and fo●m as spoken by him to wit I in the● and thou in me but this Parret must prate as he hath been taught howbeit if it might be supposed not granted that Christ had said to any particular person I in thee and thou in me It must needs follow that the person of Christ w●s without not within him to whom he then spake and the person of Christ being the Believers only Saviour this allegation could not concern the charge before us T is true we read in Joh 17 23 I in them and thou in we that they may be made perfect in me i e. in oneness of affection for so it is interpreted in the last clause of the same verse sc and hast loved them as thou hast loved me also in Joh. 14. 20. and you in me and I in you these words do only signifie the reciprocal love that shall be fully experienced between Christ and his members at the glorious resurrection of the just as it is implied in the former part of that verse At that day namely of Christs second comming in glory ver 18. ye shall sc at that day know that I am in my Father i. e. in his love and you in me i. e. in my love and I in you i. e. in your love ver 21. Now Francis if thou dost mean either of these Scriptures thou wilt be still at a loss for it was the man Jesus Christ which spake to his Disciples and it is very strange that thou wilt produce a Christ for evidence in whom you do not believe it s a sign that thou art almost spent I do not remember that he made any reply to ought said by me as above but as a mask for their nakedness he urged another Scripture not naming where as to the chapter or verse to wit Christ saith of h●mself I am Alpha and Omega Rev 1. 1. I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending saith the Lord which is and which was and which is to come The Almighty after the reciting of this Scripture I expected an Argument to be drawn from thence by the Disputant to prove the thing for wh●ch he brought it But it seems Franks Seducers could never make him capable of formal Argumentations which defect constrained me to insist upon the explication herein more fully and distinctly enlarged of those Texts of Scripture which for the most part were only repeated by the titular Disputants and that many times after their own most presumptuous mode and manner adding or diminishing contrary to Gods command Deut. 4. 2. But I proceed to the Text it self Ans The place of Scripture above sc Rev. 1. 8. consists of three parts First part I am Alpha and Omega in these words Christs creating power is Metaphorically expressed being the first and last letters in the Greek Alphabet which by a figurative speech are applied to any beginning and end and are here interpreted by the next words namely the Beginning and the Ending which Phrases do signifie unto us Christs divine Nature eternal Power and Godhead as in Joh. 1. ver 1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God sc God the Son and in Col. 1. 16. All things were created by him his dear Son ver 13. and for him sc for his glory as the ultimate end Rom. 11. 36. this therefore is the meaning of I am Alpha and Omega that is Christ is the efficient cause of all things and the end also wh●ther all things are referred that he hath at first created all things and that for his own glory alone Second part Saith the Lord which words denote Christ the faithful promiser for all the promises of God are in him 2 Cor. 1 20. in him i. e. in the man hood of Christs person Col. 2 9. hereunto agrees the title Lord. which is mostly appropriated to Christs huma●e nature as before his Birth Luk. 1 43. And whence is this to me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me and on the day of his birth Chap 2. ver 11. For to you is born this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord and afterwards Joh. 13. ver 13 14. Ye call me Master and Lord for so I am If I thou your Lord and Master have washed your feet Also after his resurrection Luk. 24. 34 saying The Lord hath risen indeed and hath oppeared to Simon ver 39. Behold my hands and my feet that
attained to some growth in Christian matters learned these were called strong or perfect in comparison of the Beginners Thus Perfect is to be understood in the 1 Cor. 2. 6. Howbeit we speak wisdome among them that are perfect meaning however imperfect weaklings are taken with inticing words of mans wisdome ver 4. accounting the Preaching of the Cross Christ crucified Foolishnest yet grown mortified Christians will discern wisdom and sublimity in the plain preaching of Iesus Christ Crucified and this sense may be accommodated to this place of Scripture Phil. 3. 15. above As many of us as be perfect i. e. such of us as are no Beginners or Learners such as try experiments in Religion But Perfect such as have made some towardly progress therein that have attained to some Gospel strength ripeness or growth in the blessed Doctrine of Faith Obj. But if any Teaching Seducing Quaker should say viz. That by the word Perfect as it referrs to Saints in this world it doth signifie a perfect freedome from all sin Answ 1. This was the lying Doctrine of the Heretical Catharish's and now taught by Seducing Quakers but no where owned in the Scriptures of truth where is that Scripture to be found which saith in so many words sc That this or that Saint was perfect from all sin in this life when it shall be shewen it will be seriously considered 2. Solomon makes a chalenge to all the World Prov. 20. 9. Who can say I have made my heart clean I am pure from my sin that is none can say it truly though some will say it bouldly that any Saint of God in this life is absolutely freed from the having of sin which is evident from the confession of the most eminent Saints 1 Ioh. 1. 8. If we say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us But to this Scripture the Quaker p●etends an Answer sc that in v. 10. the same Apostle saith If we say we have not sinned we make him a Lyar Here hence the Teaching Quakers do infe●r saying 't is true the born of God should lie if they did deny themselves to have sinned before they were in the new birth but not after it alledging 1 Ioh. 3. 9. Whatsoever is born of God doth not commit sin Reply 1. The 10th verse above sc If we say that we have not sinned we make him a Lyar by these words the Apo●●les intend their having of sin after as well as before the new birth for observe the 8th verse If we that is we who are in the new birth say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us Note here that the words in this 8th verse are expresly of the present time to wit if we not have had no sin c. which doth most plainly prove that the born of God have sin after as well as before their new birth 2. As to the words alledged out of the 1 Ioh. 3. 9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin Answ 1. If the words should be understood in the Quakers sense above asserted then the new birth would exclude the being of sin in all the born of God for the new birth agrees to them all to one as well as to another as the reason given is the same verse doth testifie Because his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God now the seed remains in all the born of God as well as in any well then it must be meant of all Saints or none Now if the Teaching Quakers should be so stark mad as to affirm all Saints to be free from sin the Scripture above 1 Ioh. 1. 8. will reprove their madness for if we who are the real Saints and born of God say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us all men may see that these words were spoken of and by such Saints as had ver 3. fellowship with the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and yet they have certified sc if that we say that we have no sin c. Again That the words in 1 Ioh. 3. 9. cannot be meant of freedome from the nature and being of sin in the born of God but only of the Trade and Custome of sinning which is explained in the foregoing 8th verse For the Devil sinneth from the beginning i. e. he hath never ceased to sin since he began it hath ever been his trade or customary way thus to sin the born of God cannot for the course and custome of sin being broken there 's not now such a free correspondency between the Soul and Sin as before Regeneration this is the Character of the unregenerate They cannot cease to sin 2 Pet. 2. 14. But so the born of God sinneth not i. e. without cessation inasmuch as he is daily pleading in his prayers against sin desiring strength not only against but victory over it thus is was with Paul Rom 7. 24. O wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from this body of death sc from this burden and bondage of inherent sinful corruption yea all this after he was most truly the born of God It is therefore a manifest wresting of the above mentioned Texts sc 1 John 1. 10. in forcing them to say that the born of God sinned before they were in the new birth but not after it The tenth Scripture Eph. 3. 19. That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God which some say excludes the being of sin in Saints Reply 1. The phrase Fulness is to be expounded by a distinction there being a double fulness namely of Parts and Degrees for the first of these we read Act. 7. 55. But he Stephen being full of the Holy Ghost this Respects the fulness of parts only that is he had something of every Grace though not a perfection of any Grace An Infant may be said to be a perfect man as it hath a perfection or fulness of parts but not of growth and degrees 2. The fulness of God in respect of Degrees is to be had only in Heaven above And even there the Apostle intends not equality but quality of fulness that is a divine and glorious fulness of or from God so then the fulness of God above expressed is to be understood of a fulness not on Earth but in Heaven which is the proper import of that place of Scripture for the Apostle prayes that they Might be filled c. And so they should be in Heaven but he asserts not that either they were or should be so filled in this life the person is because here we know but in part 1 Cor. 13. 9 22. For now we see through a Glasse darkly but then face to face now I know in part but then I shall know even as I am known Therefore the fulness of God above doth not exclude the being of sin in this life The eleventh Scripture Luk. 1. 6.